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Graham Hancock Defender Claims Proof of the Atlantis Myth's Egyptian Origin

7/18/2024

14 Comments

 
​In a posting on X today, Graham Hancock announced that “archaeologists aren't going to like” a new article Hancock posted to his website, implying that the argument convincingly challenges scholarly views. Written by Manu Seyfzadeh, a dermatologist who hunts for the Atlantean Hall of Records, the article seeks to prove that Plato drew on a genuine ancient Egyptian tradition of Atlantis when he ascribed the allegory of Atlantis to a story the Egyptians told his distant ancestor Solon in the sixth century BCE. However, Seyfzadeh admits to having no training in Classics or Egyptology, and his arguments are rather transparently ignorant of the broader context of Near Eastern cultures.
​Plato wrote of Atlantis in his dialogues Timaeus, written c. 360 BCE, and Critias, left unfinished at his death in 328 BCE. According to Plato’s story, Solon went to Egypt and “asked the priests who were most skilful in such matters, about antiquity, and made the discovery that neither he nor any other Hellene knew anything worth mentioning about the times of old.” The priests then told Solon the story of Atlantis, which Solon recorded in an unfinished epic poem, which came down to Plato through family.
 
In his book Magicians of the Gods, Hancock attempted to relate Plato’s allegory of Atlantis to Egyptian myths and legends inscribed in the Temple of Edfu, as summarized in a secondhand account from a 1969 book, and a handful of other Egyptian stories. Hancock, for instance, tried to see in the Story of the Shipwrecked Sailor, about a man who lands on an island of talking snakes, a prototype of Atlantis. (The Edfu texts were collated and inscribed hundreds of years after Plato and likely reflect Ptolemaic ideas, but they draw upon older material of uncertain date.) To defend Hancock’s speculation, Seyfazadeh cherry picks a number of elements from disparate parts of the Edfu texts and attempts to show that they are close analogues to parts of Plato’s Atlantis story.
 
These are not terribly convincing. For example, he attempts to link Atlantis, ruled over by the ten sons of Poseidon (in the Critias at least), to the Egyptian creation myth as given in the Edfu texts, where a mound of earth emerges from the waters of creation and the eight primeval creator gods spring into being. The numbers aren’t the same, of course, and in the Critias, Atlantis already existed, with Poseidon acquiring it during the division of the earth among the gods—an important clue Seyfzadeh ignores.
 
Seyfzadeh similarly tries to connect the orichalcum pillar on which the first kings wrote the laws governing royal relationships to Horus writing out a decree of creation on papyrus. As I think ought to be evident to anyone who has read my blog over the past decade, or my book Legends of the Pyramids, the idea of a pillar inscribed with ancient wisdom is a distinctly Mesopotamian idea, originating in the pillars of law erected by the Mesopotamian kings (Hammurabi’s Code being the most famous, but not the first) and transferring to Near Eastern flood myths, where antediluvian wisdom was preserved on great pillars. This story comes down to us in many forms, including Enoch’s pillars of wisdom from the extra-biblical Jewish literature as well as some Greco-Roman examples, notably Eusebius’ almost identical pillar of royal history in his story of Panchaea (Diodorus 5.67), which he even specifies is written in Egyptian sacred script (he was parodying Plato), the sacred pillars consecrated in blood in Sanchuniathon (just as Atlantis consecrated its pillar with blood), and the iron pillar of Hermetic wisdom in the Kyranides, of uncertain date. (Of course, if Seyfzadeh and Hancock can use texts written down after Plato to assert knowledge of myths before Plato, then I can as well.)
 
He concludes by trying to relate Platonic philosophy to Egyptian theology, particularly the idea of souls and cosmic realms, and ends by trying to derive the name “Atlantis” from an Egyptian sequence of words meaning “flood-born pristine sites” from the Edfu Building Texts. Of course, “Atlantis” isn’t exactly the name of the island, since “Atlantis” is actually the genitive of “Atlas,” and its Greek name, Ἀτλαντὶς νῆσος, just means “the island of Atlas.” Trying to etymologize the genitive is unhelpful, unless the argument is that the Greeks mistook an Egyptian nominative for a Greek genitive.
 
More to the point: All of the material Seyfzadeh sees as Egyptian in origin is more readily explained by Plato’s more obvious inspiration: Near Eastern flood myths. If the pillar of wisdom didn’t clue you in, the words attributed to Egyptian priests in the Timaeus should, for they reflect not Egyptian belief but Mesopotamian: “There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes.” The idea of repeated destructions by fire and water is a hallmark of Near Eastern mythologies such as those of the Babylonians, Hittites, and the various peoples of the Levant. We see it in the records of Berossus and Sanchuniathon, as well as in ancient cuneiform texts. We do not see it in Egyptian mythology until the Hermetic writers, with Greek and Jewish influence, long after Plato. Early Greek sources demonstrate clear influence from Hittite mythology (e.g. Hesiod’s Theogony) and other Near Eastern sources, but rarely Egyptian.
 
Similarly, the final surviving section of the Critias tells of Zeus’s plans to punish the Atlanteans for their hubris and sin by destroying them, which we know from the Timaeus happened by drowning the continent. In structure and even in wording it is a very close copy of the Near Eastern flood myth, made famous in the Bible’s tale of Noah, and known to the Greeks in the story of Deucalion and Pyrrah. Plato’s version, though, is less like Deucalion’s story (which involved Zeus being upset at a lack of sacrifices) and more like Babylonian and other Near Eastern version, known to the Greeks from translations of Gilgamesh and Lucian’s Syrian Goddess. Obviously, Plato lived before Lucian, but Lucian testifies to Greek knowledge of Near Eastern material, of which Lucian was unlikely to have been the first.
 
Plato’s knowledge of Egypt is unlikely to be an accurate account of what Solon had learned two hundred years earlier, but it is a fair assessment of the role Greeks imagined for Egypt as an elder culture and keeper of secrets. Much of what Plato wrote about Egypt is similar to what Herodotus said, but the specifics of the Atlantis story show much closer connections to Hittite and Mesopotamian lore than they do to genuine Egyptian legends. This doesn’t preclude an Egyptian source, of course, but by the time of Plato (or even Solon), there was plenty of cross-cultural exchange across the eastern Mediterranean that even a story told in Egypt may not have originate there.
 
However, even if Solon did leave an unfinished poem reworking some Near Eastern antediluvian and flood mythology, the story as we have it today is almost certainly the product of Plato’s imagination. 
14 Comments
Jim
7/18/2024 11:32:19 pm

Oh great this Manu Seyfzadeh is looking for the Atlantean Hall of Records that Edgar Cayce predicted would be under the Sphinx !
He claims that they have been moved however, which would be perfect for an entire season of Oak Island.

https://www.amazon.ca/Under-Sphinx-Search-Hieroglyphic-Records/dp/1948261413

Nutbar.

Reply
Kent
7/19/2024 03:01:33 am

"the idea of a pillar inscribed with ancient wisdom is a distinctly Mesopotamian idea" With all due respect, io volio shenanigans. Most of the world is in fact not Mesopotamian. Thass raciss.

Perhaps the Egyptians didn't need a Flood Myth because they had actual flooding. Maybe the T&E also had flooding, but it's the Nile one hears about, no?

This isn't at our Jason, this is at the Atlantis "industry", the misguided boobs and nabobs who insist that the person across from them at the dinner party must act like Atlantis is/was real. Like Narnia, Winnie the Pooh and Spaceman Spiff, it's not.

In my opinion anyone who mentions Atlantis in a public forum as if real, which I note Jason does not, is pretty much putting a "Kick Me" sign on their back.

As I've said reputitetively Atlantis is a story about a story being told to someone about a story being told to someone, and since ancient writers were scrupulous about details and never writing fiction, it's clearly 100% true. Not a joke. People need to adopt the Juggaliticritical-Historical approach.

I would argue that people who worry about the imaginary demons of Satanism should get Atlantis on their radar. I'm super cereal guys.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
7/19/2024 09:44:56 am

I didn't mean that no one in the world had ever carved a pillar outside Mesopotamia, just that the mythology of antediluvian pillars of divine wisdom originates in Mesopotamia and the Levant.

Reply
Kent
7/19/2024 11:12:29 am

Didn't mean to jump down your throat. Just get frustrated with not you, but "the culture" expecting we the reader people to act as if stuff happened because people have stories. We know for sure that there are stories but is anything antedeluvian if there was no deluve? Pillar technology is less advanced than piling up stones technology, the Mesohippopotamian people were just first to market because of the written language thing. Pushing it to the absurd, what did the starving Amerindians do before the Mesopotamianites invented agriculture? And how did they git them some? Joseph "Why Would I Need a Degree?" Campbell was onto something with his focus on stories rather than history.

I just knee-jerkly treat anything with "Antedeluvian" in it like Forrest Gump, not Bernard Fall. Darmok and Gilad on the telephone at Tanagra.

Charles L. Verrastro
7/19/2024 11:33:42 am

I've pointed to Tobias Curton's excellent history of such Pillars in his book "The Lost Pillars of Enoch".
In my early studies of ancient Celtic literature I was nearly taken in by supposedly ancient bardic lore that stated a primordial sage inscribed the antedeluvian sciences on stone pillars in ogham. Fortunately when I tracked down the original source it turned out to be from the notorious Welshv forger Iolo Morganwg.
Iolo was a freemason and early theosophist, who just cast Druidic robes over largely eastern stories and concepts and added his own inventions.

Kent
7/19/2024 02:27:04 pm

I just started reading the referenced article. It is a wild ride and reminds me that neither you whoever you are nor I are obligated to treat someone else's mythology as if it made sense, Seems to me that folks are fine with "not even remotely based in fact" but draw the line at and don't take kindly to folks who advocate a "That doesn't make any sort of sense" position.

"They tell the story of the beginning of the world, when it was still entirely covered by water. During the struggle between land and primeval water, the land managed to come close to the surface. Where this happened, reeds grew with the help of a falcon, which were strengthened by the gods The Far and The Large. The reeds were the germ cell for the temple of Edfu, and here Horus landed, as a falcon. A force approached, in the form of a bird, and fed Horus, the lord of Edfu; This ritual was the beginning of the cult of Edfu.

The snakelike Apophis tried to impede the creation. Horus shuddered in fear, yet a harpoon, one of the forms of Ptah, came to the rescue. The enemy was defeated and the creation continued. A falcon formed the sky dome, its wings reaching from horizon to horizon, and the sun began its daily cycle."

At no point in this story does Fuxi teach the Chinamen how to write or fish. What's up with that? Shouldn't there be a big turtle? How do Arda and Ellijay fit in?

Executive summary: I'm finding the article fascinating. Don't mind the occasional ride on the crazy train.

I'm okay with our history being "the" history because I'd like history to be factually correct. But "our" mythology? That's a different kettle of pot. My ancestors did not get flooded and the Thunderbirds pooped all over the place until the Pulse. Unexplained to this day.

My personal mythology is that this happened yesterday or today depending on your colors and there is no before or long ago. It's quite exhilarating when you focus on it. Like watching a heart transplant.

Reply
E.P. Grondine
7/19/2024 09:59:26 am

You have to hand it to Plato, he did write a best seller.

I recently read an archaeological news brief, where someone had claimed to identify an Egyptian site Solon had visited.

I can not remember where he claimed it was.

i hope your Dean book is doing okay for you.

Reply
Grinding
7/20/2024 04:15:59 pm

You recently woke up and forgot where it was. Naff said. Toodle chops.

Reply
Kent
7/20/2024 09:41:36 pm

No, I do not have to hand it. Plato wrote a book nobody read. Remind you of anyone?

"I recently" <-- a lie.

"I can't" <-- a truth.

A sad.

Mandelbaum!

Reply
Clete
7/19/2024 07:19:49 pm

I really doubt that real archaeologists first of all not read anything written by some dimwitted fringe author. Second would probably in all likelihood never have head of Graham Hancock or Manu Seyfzudah.

Reply
Doc rock
7/21/2024 01:53:17 pm

Except for a few archaeologists who have developed a niche interest in debunking pseudoarchaeologists I don't believe that many archaeologists know or care much of anything about either of these clowns. Or any other such characters. Whether it be ancient aliens or white Atlantians or Hall of Records blah blah it is just one big mass of BS that everyone is aware is out there but they aren't interested in the details and they have better things to do than read and discuss the stuff instead of doing archaeology. Just like the guys at NASA aren't sitting around at lunch talking about the latest blog post by a flat earther and agonizing over how to respond.

Reply
E/P.Grondine
7/25/2024 07:16:06 am

Hi Doc -

It is not the archaeologists. It is the writers. It is obvious that Atlantis sells.

If you can figure out why that is, then perhaps fame and fortune await you. Personally, I am invested in the Great Atlantic Impact
Mega-tsunmi.

Kent
7/22/2024 02:26:58 pm

Reading the article by Manu mentioned in JC's article I'm pingponging between "Okay he's studied some" and "Sounds like a dilettante writing about people writing, much like Plato." For me a second reading is necessary, though this is NOT: "inexplicit, textual, and architectural thematic imbuing." Hwaet the heck? Edit out the Tim Gunn meets Querelle fanfic svp!

I wanna think this guy's done a truckload of work but am getting a strong whiff of cosplay. Both could be true.

How documentation or even suggestion that Plato stole something that arguably wasn't true to begin with?

And this 9,000 year stuff? When was written language invented and why is it not part of the story written in written language? Consider shenanigans called. Most cultures have the good manners to at least make up a story.

For some reason this reminds me of the CIA officer who lost his job because after 2 years of language school the poobahs decided that the Iranians wouldn't believe a black guy could speak German. They kinda did in the sudsy vest of ole Afrika Town. Certainly the People of Kau (Evans-Pritchard's Nuer) dined out on Leni Riefenstahl's work, no? Milli Vanilli? Black guys speaking German!

Reply
A C
8/17/2024 04:14:43 am

You've mistakenly written Eusebius when you meant Euhemerus.

There's definite real influence on Greek philosophy from Egypt but even if this guy was correct about Atlantis being derived from the cited Egyptian stories that would only prove the fictional nature of Plato's narrative.

The Pythagorean lifestyle of wearing undyed linen, holding to strict purity laws and living in a community with shared property is straight from the Egyptian priesthood and he's identified as the first Greek Philosopher.

Ultimately though you just can't trust any theory of the origin of the Atlantis story that doesn't recognise the sinking of the Achaen port city of Helike in a single night during an earthquake in Plato's own lifetime.

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