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Scott Wolter: Cosmic Forces Have "Profound Impact" on History, Templars Gave Natives Jesus Genes

6/5/2014

171 Comments

 
On May 16, Scott Wolter appeared on a radio program called Truth Connections on the UFO Paranormal Radio Network. The program opens hilariously with the host’s technical problems, followed by her utter inability to read Scott Wolter’s promotional copy about himself in anything like a convincing way. However, it’s worth nothing that Wolter’s promotion copy claims that he has investigated “5,000” prehistoric mysteries, and it reads explicitly that his intention in his research is “adding to the mystery that many European visitors came here prior to Columbus, and our history is not what we’ve been led to believe.”

That ought to put to rest any doubts about Wolter’s intentions vis-à-vis Europeans influence in America versus those of non-European peoples.
His comments on the show are the same as always: Academics are “controlling the argument, and it’s not right and it’s sad”; the Kensington Rune Stone is the key to understanding history (“the Rosetta stone of North America”); judicial rules for admissible evidence are a good standard for his research; etc. etc. Again, he hits the same notes that archaeology and anthropology are “humanities disciplines” and therefore are not “hard science disciplines” and archaeologists “don’t receive formal training in the scientific method. … They don’t follow proper methods.” Wolter exposes his ignorance about postgraduate training in archaeology and anthropology, but none of this is new.

Instead, let me focus on what is new in this two-hour free-association interview.

The host asks Wolter if secret societies have given him “pushback,” but Wolter says that the secret societies support his work and believe he is on the right track. Instead, Wolter says that the “Roman Church” has the most to fear from him but have not moved against him because of their financial and sex abuse scandals. He asserts, in reference to the Holy Bloodline Conspiracy, that “they know what I’m talking about, and they know it’s true.” Much later he will imply that the Bloodline families planned the clergy sex abuse scandal, which is as outrageous as it is irresponsible.

Wolter says that he would be a “fool to deny” that there is a “cosmic” aspect of life, and he says that we recently moved through “one of the most profound” astrological changes in our history when the precession of the equinoxes switched our governing sign in keeping with the Mayan Calendar on December 21, 2012. He is here referring to the slow drift of the stars, which every 2,160 years change the constellation against which the sun rises on the spring equinox. “The changing of the ages throughout history has had a profound impact on the history of mankind and religion,” he said, attributing to pictures in the sky a range of human cultural achievements. As a point of fact, the precession of the equinoxes was traditionally marked by the spring equinox, not the winter solstice, and there is no evidence for any recognition of ruling houses of astrological ages prior to the Greek adoption of Babylonian astronomy in the Hellenistic period. Astrologers can’t even agree when the Age of Aquarius supposedly begins, with different astrologers placing its start anywhere from 1447 to 3597 CE. The current scientific definition of the “edges” of constellations, adopted in 1929, would start the Age of Aquarius in 2600 CE. So far as I know, no one identified December 21, 2012 as the start of the Age of Aquarius prior to the invention of the Mayan calendar apocalypse myth in the 1960s. “People have no idea, no concept, of how much it has impacted our world,” Wolter said.

Wolter again asserts that “certain powers in religion and politics” know the true history of North America and are purposely suppressing this truth. Wolter gives a confusing statement in which he says that Native Americans know the truth about the Knights Templar but that “nobody” (except him) is talking to them and that the U.S. government committed genocide against them for what he seems to imply were conspiratorial reasons involving a cover-up of Templar truths. Logically speaking, this makes no sense since (a) the genocide was not complete enough to eliminate the Templar “facts” Wolter supposedly recovered from Native peoples, and (b) if the Freemasons are really Templar adjuncts and secretly run America, why would they want to cover up their own right to power? After discussing his conversations with Native Americans, Wolter amends his statement to suggest that the Native Americans refuse to speak about the Templars because of the genocide, but this is confusing again since it would seem that if this information were so threatening to their oppressors Native Americans would want it publicized as far and wide as possible. The logic just doesn’t follow. A few minutes later, he changes the story a bit more and this time talks of “one of the conveniences” of genocide: “you get rid of the witnesses” to the Templar involvement in American history, “and you get rid of the Bloodline.” We will get to that bizarre idea in a moment.

Wolter falsely asserts, again, that the Midewin rituals of the Ojibwa are “identical” to “Knights Templar rituals. Identical.” (He emphasizes “identical” at least three times.) This is a step up from his previous claim, which was that they were parallel to Freemason rituals, something I showed to be almost certainly wrong last year. Claiming them as Templar rituals eliminates the requirement for proof since we have no reliable records of the details of Templar rituals for comparison. But I doubt that the Templar rituals involved training in medicinal plant usage, the focus of the Midewin ritual. (Chances are that Wolter is conflating the Knights Templar with the Freemason order of the same name, even though they are unrelated.)

He then complains that archaeologists “can’t say anything without using a big word.” Wolter is just folks, you know.

At this point the host tells Wolter that many believe that Native Americans are the descendants of a race of ancient astronauts from outer space called Star People, whom we have seen before on Ancient Aliens. Wolter seems to misunderstand the point, not recognizing that Star People are space aliens, and instead says he’s “been told that the Templars came over here and they intentionally brought the Bloodline [of Jesus] and put it into the Natives so it would be protected.” Just try unpacking that sentence. It sounds like Wolter envisions the Templars as running some kind of perverted breeding program where Jesus-spawn are sent out to stud. (Assuming the Templars brought males for efficiency.) “In times to come, that will be vetted out by science,” he asserts. Now we see why Wolter is so interested in Steve St. Clair’s DNA project. Did Native women have a choice when these Templar studs “saw the daughters of men that they were fair” (Genesis 6:2)?

I find it intriguing that almost by osmosis Wolter has come to adopt a modified form of the Watchers myth from Genesis 6:1-4 and the Book of Enoch as his template for the Templar heritage: The sons of God (descended this time from the literal son of God) travel to a new land, cross-breed with people from another race, and produce a hybrid people (the current Native Americans), to whom are attributed secret knowledge and advanced spiritual powers. The time and place and people have changed, but the template is exactly the same. I found this the single most interesting part of his interview.

“They did it with them as a preemptive strike because they knew what was coming,” Wolter said, and I picked out that line because it unintentionally turned this discussion into a weird, pun-filled porno version of America Unearthed.

The Templars, he said, “warned the Natives that the Christians were coming and that it wasn’t going to be good”—this is in the 1400s—and Wolter said that the Templars bonded with the Natives through their shared experience of violent repression at the hands of the Catholic Church. It seems that for Scott Wolter, history is the story of spiritual truth trying to escape from the institutional control of Catholicism. I’m not quite sure how the fact that the United States was virulently anti-Catholic for more than a century plays into this.

The invading Christians and then the U.S. government killed the Natives, he said, to suppress the Jesus Bloodline. “And don’t think that that wasn’t known.” It was all “part of the plan,” he said. That plan (and do not try to make sense of this) was masterminded by the Cistercian Order, which he said was not in fact Catholic but instead “the greatest coup d’état in history, which the world still doesn’t understand.” Except, of course, Scott Wolter. He says that the Cistercians were formed by the “Bloodline Families” to infiltrate the Church and destroy it, a destruction he asserts has “come to fruition” right now. He comes dangerously close here to asserting that the Bloodline Families engaged in ritual child abuse to destroy the Catholic Church through pedophile sex scandals.

Again, I am deeply confused by why Wolter feels that the Cistercians and the U.S. government, which he asserts is controlled by Templar-Freemasons, “got rid of the Bloodline” by eradicating the Native Americans that the Templars supposedly hybridized with magic Jesus genes. Remember: The Indian Removal Act and the Trail of Tears were the effort of Andrew Jackson, and Jackson was a Freemason! Did the Cistercian-Templar-Freemasons change allegiances at some point? Or is there a super-conspiracy that’s trying to suppress lesser conspiracies? Or is this all because of the magic power of astrology, which somehow changes everyone’s beliefs when the “stars are right”?

According to Wolter, the Cistercian-Bloodline Families controlled France and used their position to force Napoleon into the Louisiana Purchase to exercise their Templar land claim to the Mississippi watershed, a land claim that the British (?) had somehow denied them by virtue of… what exactly? They weren’t Catholic, so I don’t see how they fit into the Catholic conspiracy. It isn’t clear. But somehow everyone recognizes America as the new Holy Land, the promised land of the new covenant or some such. Wolter says that his grand conspiracy “makes all the sense in the world.” He claims that “These Bloodline families are still around. They’re basically running the world. … I know this is right.” Except, of course, when they’re not.

After the break, and at the halfway point, the show opened the floor to questions from the audience. During this, the host brings up monoatomic gold, the imaginary food consumed by Sitchinite space aliens, and Wolter goes right along with it! “Now you’re getting into the ancient Egyptian stuff!” he says. “I love it!” He doesn’t realize, however, that she’s talking about aliens so he suggests that there could be an episode of America Unearthed based on the aliens’ magic food. I presume he is confusing monatomic gold with colloidal gold, a solution of nanoparticles (not single atoms) known since Antiquity.

During the Q-and-A he again reiterates his contempt for the Catholic Church, which he considers a fraudulent religion, and he asserts that the Vatican has profound and continuing “influence” over the Smithsonian, which he labels as “corrupt.” He asserts that the Smithsonian, potentially on Vatican orders, is hiding the skeletons of giants. He also wonders if the Druids had “influence” on the Mound Builders, and he now claims that the Templars obtained “fresh” silver from the Americas, and that Columbus and the Spaniards learned about America from the Templars (“it’s so obvious!”). Columbus, of course, conveniently hid that fact by pretending that he didn’t realize America was not Asia.

“How many cultures do you think came her pre-Columbian?” the host asks. “Everybody,” Wolter says. “Everybody!” A few minutes later he added, “speculation [is] really, really fun!” At least someone is having fun.
171 Comments
666
6/5/2014 07:24:22 am

"intentionally brought the Bloodline [of Jesus] and put it into the Natives so it would be protected"

Nobody anywhere can prove the historical existence of Jesus Christ.

The "biography" of Jesus Christ in the Gospels could have originated from spiritual inspiration and could be pure historical fiction.

The "biography" of Jesus Christ was rejected by Gnostics and the Cathars who believed in an incorporeal Christ.

Reply
666
6/5/2014 07:30:29 am

An after-note about the New Testament sholars - they tried to pin an identity on the Teacher of Righteousness when in all probability that "individual" too, is most likely the personification of an event (like the Spouter of Lies and the Wicked Priest)

Reply
Snarkie Stackhouse
6/5/2014 08:10:33 am

On the other hand, no one can disprove the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth.

Seriously dude, get some help!

Reply
Snarkie Stackhouse
6/5/2014 08:14:42 am

Of course, the Gnostics and the Cathars were entitled to believe the historical Jesus was a sham and a contradiction

Being seriously devious
6/5/2014 08:22:02 am

Ensure that the Gnostics existed AFTER "mainstream" Christianity. Do NOT make Gnosticism contemporary with it.

Being candid
6/5/2014 08:27:47 am

Not one first century Christian mentioned the existence of the Gospels. Not one fragment of the Gospels dates from the first century.

Who was the first Christian that referred to the existence of the Gospels?

Who was the first Christian to refer to the Gospels as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?

None of this happened during the first century.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/5/2014 08:30:19 am

Not one first-century Christian self-identified as Christian; they were, at that stage, Jewish sectarians. Christianity as Christianity was only codified by the Council of Nicaea and subsequent Church synods.

As for the historicity of Jesus - Josephus seems to disagree with you, and he was writing immediately after the sack of the Second Temple.

666
6/5/2014 08:34:56 am

The earliest fragments of Josephus date from the 10th century.

Earlier manuscripts of Josephus predating the 10th century were destroyed because they contained obvious Christian interpolations - like the physical description of the Virgin Mary.

Louis Feldman has written mountains of material about Josephus - but what's really interesting about his works is what's missing from them.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/5/2014 08:39:13 am

How convenient, that when someone has a source that contradicts you, you can hand-wave it and say it doesn't really count. As long as you're going that route, we don't exactly have troves of documents from the first century from ANY author. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, especially in a giant documentary black hole.

Matt Mc
6/5/2014 08:41:15 am

Grunt, why even trying to talk sensibly to someone who creates long threads of conversations with themselves?

666
6/5/2014 08:41:31 am

Can a 10th century fragment devoid of a first edition dating from the 1st century count as a "source" especially when it can be demonstrated previous versions were doctored

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/5/2014 08:43:53 am

Tell you what. When you come up with a first edition of ANY classical text, let me know and we'll resume this argument. In the meantime, they're all copies of copies of copies, almost always including editorial additions and subtractions, either deliberate or accidental.

666
6/5/2014 08:45:40 am

Manuscripts by Josephus predating the 10fh century have not survived because they contained obvious Christian interpolations.

Tip: You can only find this out from 19th century New Testament scholarship

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/5/2014 08:46:32 am

Matt -

I don't expect his mind to change; he appears to epitomize "blessed is the mind too small for doubt." The reason I argue back is so that whoever reads after has an opposing viewpoint to read. Sometimes it's worth it - the thread a few days ago where someone claimed that there was no point in teaching anything and academia was self-indulgent comes to mind - and sometimes it's not. I refuse to respond directly to Phil Gotsch, for instance, because I can feel my blood pressure rise every time I do.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/5/2014 08:48:49 am

Ah, so fragments from before the 10th Century were magically all destroyed by 19th-Century Biblical scholars? How extraordinary, that they would find evidence of something, then destroy said evidence!

666
6/5/2014 08:50:47 am

Testimonies exist relating to what existed in the manuscripts by Josephus by notable sources.

Matt Mc
6/5/2014 08:52:19 am

Fair enough Grunt, there is a lot good reasoning in that logic.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/5/2014 08:54:46 am

"Testimonies exist?" By "notable sources?" Well now, since we don't have signed first editions of those testimonies either, how do you know they're undoctored? And I suppose you have "top men" inspecting the Ark of the Covenant as well?

666
6/5/2014 08:55:04 am

John of Damascus and Andrew of Crete referred to passages within Josephus predating the 10th century
These manuscripts are no longer in existence, therefore they were destroyed

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/5/2014 08:59:38 am

Why is it that you trust the veracity of one old document, but not another? Why do you assume that either of them tells the truth? If you're willing to accept falsehood in one, why is the next beyond suspicion?

My point in all of this, as I've said, isn't to change your mind. It's that you're so full of smug certainty that the historical Jesus never existed, without providing any more evidence than "no one at the time said this one guy in an empire of millions existed." If we had, say, the crucifixion records of the Roman provice of Judaea, that would be great, but precious few documents of ANY type survive from the period in question. You seem quite willing to accept those which tangentially support your claim, but disregard those that explicitly do.

666
6/5/2014 09:01:50 am

Have you actually read Josephus' creed and what he actually believed in and how he received his religious creed?

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An Over-Educated Grunt
6/5/2014 09:03:31 am

Not in years. What I remember of Josephus was primarily an impression that he was more interested in saving his skin by whatever means necessary, and justifying his actions in doing so, than service to any creed or cause.

666
6/5/2014 09:05:20 am

Josephus was a turncoat. Still more the reason the passages attributed to him regarding Jesus Christ are later interpolations.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/5/2014 09:08:50 am

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. "Josephus wrote for an audience, therefore anything he says about Christianity must be a later addition." By that reasoning, "Einstein refused military service, therefore his letter to FDR must be taken with suspicion." There is no direct and necessary relation between those two statements.

666
6/5/2014 09:13:40 am

I understand the testimonies of John of Damascus and Andrew of Crete and I further understand the passages found within the Slavonic Josephus

Mandalore
6/5/2014 11:17:49 am

Will you provide citations from Andrew, John, and Slavonic Josephus so that I too can understand them? I'm curious to read them.

666
6/5/2014 11:21:52 am

I found them.

666
6/5/2014 11:30:54 am

The Slavonic Josephus referred to non-existent archaeological proof for the existence of Jesus Christ.

666
6/5/2014 11:53:52 am

J. Spencer Kennard Jr, "Gleanings from the Slavonic Josephus Controversy" (Jewish Quarterly Review, New Series, Volume 39, Number 2, October 1948)

Even in the seventeenth century it is alleged that Thomas Gale of Cambridge had large Greek fragments of Josephus not in the 'textus receptus': we do not know what became of them, and we are left to wonder whether their suppression was not deliberate [page 164, citing Solomon Reinach, page 114, Amalthée: Mélanges d’Archéologie et d’Histoire, Tome II, 1929]

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k57300134/f5.image.langEN

Mandalore
6/5/2014 03:33:37 pm

Thanks for the reference about Josephus. And John of Damascus and Andrew of Crete?

666
6/5/2014 09:00:06 pm

Andrew of Crete and John of Damascus references can be found in the article by Kennard. Haven't you got access to JSTOR?

666
6/5/2014 09:10:28 pm

John of Damascus,
On the Orthodox Faith Book 4 Chapter 16

Andrew of Crete
Mark Miravalle (editor), "Mariology: A Guide for Priests, Deacons, Seminarians, and Consecrated Persons", page 159 (Seat of Wisdom Books, 2007). Citing Patrologia Graeca, Volume 97, pages 1301-1304 (J.-P. Migne,1865).

666
6/5/2014 09:38:01 pm

Reference by John of Damascus, not found here:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/33044.htm

But in 2 manuscripts in the Bibliotheque Nationale, Paris. And to the list can be added Andreas of Jerusalem

https://web.archive.org/web/20120912030058/http://www.textexcavation.com/jesus.html

666
6/5/2014 09:45:00 pm

ok, Andreas of Jerusalem was the same as Andrew of Crete

.
6/6/2014 03:56:13 am

Monsieur Triple Six, not all of us pay thru the nose so as
to read JSTOR and we have been more inclined to go online
and look at the books that have become files there, whether
e*text or semi-focused photocopies of precise printed pages
from the 1800s. the net is an information matrix that is loosely
frozen at 1999 if one avoids JSTOR&kin but all the many lesser
offerings of the 1800s are opening up to the degree where they
can be quoted on term papers. Case in point, our Jason did up
a neat blog on William Warren who picked the wrong pole in his
manuscript hunt for Plato's Ice Age Atlantis. Clearly we are near
the point where a wondrous lake or sea will be grandly open for
commerce all the 12 months of the year with nary an iceberg
in sight at all. In less than 200 years the very young who
are raised in Siberia or Alaska or Greenland or Scandinavia or
the upper half of Canada will look at Leo DiCaprio's film Titanic
and see a metaphysical "lost world" on par with A. Conan Doyle.
Had William Warren opined Atlantis was under the South Pole,
Jason would have grinned less when doing the write-up on the
old book W.W wrote. JSTOR creates its own ELOI & Morlocks.
we turn in2 well read amateurs if we do not pay them a snob fee.

Mandalore
6/5/2014 09:10:47 am

Wow. Someone really doesn't understand how manuscripts have passed down through the ages or how scholars work with them. Try looking at a critical edition of any ancient source; Teubners are best but Loebs will do. Just because most manuscripts are from after the 10th century (fragments of earlier survive) doesn't mean that they are not still representative of their original forms.

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.
6/6/2014 03:35:45 am

Trajan's busy scribes at one point "faked" Christian sounding
documents when trying to ferret out each sect. like a greatly
fading xerox, phrases in a precise pattern indicate a source
when things are hand-copied. The loose 500 year cycle that
demands items be recopied has Constantine the Great being
born more than 500 years after the death of Cato the Censor,
his death is separated from the Bubonic Plague by two major document copying cycles. The Great One on restoring order
to the Roman Empire may have had the better manuscripts
thusly copied over, he is 500 years before Charlemagne,
and if the monks who copied the better books are fastidious,
very few mistakes were made. We can be very certain about
the core books of the Christian Bible. We also know recent
discoveries can link up Egypt's long dynastic history to David's
era, case in point, the episode about the Silver Pharaoh on
Secrets of the Dead.

Josephus was greatly censored after his disappearance/death
but he does speak of J.C so Early Christianity is not just an
invention. Constantine's mother may have had some ancestors
who had joined the movement early, even if he is half Roman,
he is closer to the days of the Church of the Martyrs. He took
a version of the Faith and made it official, but he did not ban
all Pagan authors.

Odds are we do have a continuity on an "under grad" lore level
between Plato's Academy and the medieval manuscripts that Thomas Aquinas studied. Over time, given that languages can
change, we have Hebrew being translated into Greek, Aramaic
and Latin, and then translations into the more modern languages.

From the Wycliffe Bible onwards, there have been the many
English translations. For Ancient Greek, the two prose-poems
by Homer are the Golden Standard. Caesar's campaign in Gaul
was dreaded by schoolboys, to an equal degree. We have a lore
and an organic continuity. It is no fluke that poor James Joyce
is literally banned in Boston when creating his own version of
Homer that is written in his own hybrid version of Gaelic + English.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/5/2014 08:05:01 am

Actually, if you accept his position that the Cistercians were a stab at the belly of the Church, it was remarkably unsuccessful. They were noted for their zeal and asceticism early on, but it faded out after only a century or so - once the original generation had passed, so too had the ideals that drove them as a proto-Reformation. Within a couple of centuries, most of the local chapterhouses had gone their own way, which makes it hard to believe that they were guided by some secret conspiracy.

Summary: Of course they could be a conspiracy, but the longer a conspiracy runs, the more likely it is either to fail, or become public knowledge. The Cistercians did a bit of both, since they failed to reform the Church, but fell into the same old traps, but at the same time they were spread throughout Europe.

Reply
.
6/5/2014 08:38:26 am

does this radio interview by SW more than hint
at the path AU's season 3 is about to take????
after filming ceases publicity steps into the void.

Reply
.
6/6/2014 03:39:30 am

medieval heresies are often solipsistic, they metaphysically
create and construct their own unique universes in pure bliss.

Reply
.
6/6/2014 04:03:27 am

Kal's quip is way tres cool, an' very "on the money" about SW!
Season 3 via H2's AU is soon to reveal SW's Id + Ego to us all.

Kal
6/5/2014 09:42:19 am

Not going to go there on the blood of Christ argument or the Templars, or even the fake Kenzington stone again, but SW sounds like a total quack. Again there is evidence for other voyages from Asia and Europe though in the new world, which is a given, not a conspiracy, so there is no story. It's not like Columbus was the center of all exploration, but just an explorer who happened to lead to Europeans coming (again, as the Vikings had been here). This is not a great surprise. AU is a fiction show and should be billed as such, as is AA. They might as well claim bigfoot is an alien Templar master shaman who goes through star gates...oh wait, they did that one.

I don't mind a little wacky conspiracy theory sometimes, but these AU guys sure are full of themselves. You gotta know they know it too. They know full well they're just entertainers, because if they were really that buck nutty they wouldn't get on TV.

As for SW having as cow over sites like this, if he really believed that which he claims, he wouldn't bother. The fact that he does seems to make him out as even nuttier. And yo bet he knows it.



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666
6/5/2014 09:53:14 am

Whatever you do, don't mention anything about Pope Boniface being found guilty posthumously of practicing ritual magic by Guillaume de Nogaret

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
6/5/2014 04:05:55 pm

LOL …

"America Unearthed" certainly attracts and hold attention in this venue ...

Reply
Joe
6/6/2014 01:53:17 am

Since this article is about an interview that Scott did on a radio program. I really do not see your point in talking about American Unearthed.

.
6/6/2014 04:09:17 am

Scott Wolter likes the filming he's done for Au's season 3 !!!!!
The Good Rev has just been apt & pithy, almost truly witty !!!
We got ONE long+hot summer B4 Fall's bright lightz+delights!

Clint Knapp
6/5/2014 10:55:22 am

This just in; Templar's discovered the Hollow Earth, built the moon out of swiss cheese, and have advanced anti-gravity propulsion technology which foolish plebs have been mistaking for aliens since the late 40s.

Seriously. It's just absurd the amount of utter lunacy Wolter's willing to spout in the name of keeping himself relevant. Great connection to the Watchers myth, though. I had a nice laugh at that one and just shook my head in silent dismay at the rest.

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Varika
6/5/2014 11:07:58 am

Uh....if Scott Wolter dives any closer, he's gonna wind up sued by Ubisoft for copyright infringement on the Assassin's Creed storylines! Seriously, I'm reading this stuff and going, "....I haven't even played AC, just watched parts of my brother's playthroughs, and I STILL recognize those serial numbers..."

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Gregor
6/5/2014 12:59:05 pm

"America Unearthed is brought to you by....Abstergo Industries: We Love Apples!"

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Zach
6/5/2014 04:51:51 pm

I have to say that as a fan of the AC games, having played them all, even they are tame compared to Wolter's ridiculous theories, especially when they go against the nature of the said group in question. For instance, take for where Wolter asserts that the Smithsonian, on Vatican orders, is hiding the skeletons of giants. Why would the most powerful church leaders of Christianity hide evidence that could prove their stories right? Especially if it gives them converts to the more Christian fundamentalist crowd? Even the writers for AC have more logic in their stories than this garbage.

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Gregor
6/5/2014 05:45:10 pm

You posit a level of logic and discipline in the Catholic church that simply isn't there - it's history is filled with contrary and contradictory decrees, behaviors and reformations, and that's not even counting the centuries it served as the personal criminal enterprise of wealthy & conniving Italian families.

More importantly (in my opinion, at least), you assume that "any news about god is good news!" when, in truth, all Christian factions have had ~2,000 years to 'redecorate'. No one likes finding out that time-honored traditions and cherished memories are, in fact, wrong.

666
6/5/2014 09:02:01 pm

Oh, religion has been the bane of homo sapiens

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 01:17:33 am

Except for the parts where it, you know, preserved literacy in Western Europe, inspired most (not all - and yes, I can probably name a longer list of exceptions than you can) of the great architectural monuments from about 250 BC to about 1750, led to the foundation of communities in otherwise unsettled areas, gave us codified behavior to keep us from slaughtering each other in our sleep...

But other than that, what have the bloody Romans ever done for us?

666
6/6/2014 01:43:45 am

You missed out the bit about Religion being used for human control

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 01:45:48 am

You mean like laws, or family units, or access to resources?

.
6/6/2014 04:26:48 am

Varika, --- i've played DOOM, i've played Wolfenstein but my
exposure to DINO D-DAY is from a YouTube this British chap
did that delves into how much of a gimmick it is in the realm
of Shooter Games. I am a purist, i prefer Burnin' Rubber 3 over
BR 1,2,4+5 becuz it loads faster on my cheap laptop. call me
almost ADHD but if 2011's Dino D-day as a concept idea spawns
a show about NAZIz going into an atavistic retro-genetics that
avoids our epi-genome, and all curious breading programs thusly,
and if SW's AU Season 3 is about to go 100& Quixotic or quirky
in a very "pulp fiction" magaZine facinating way, as he quotes the
copy from the New York Post or an equivalency, even back to a
few newspaper articles Mark Twain may have read in his heyday,
especially if H2 gives AU more money + research assistants, then
like my two favorite Trek movies, Star Trek Six with Bill Shatner
and crew, or the newbie INTO THE DARKNESS, i'm giving this all
a GARY SEVEN or PLAN NINE FROM OUTER SPACE rating. I
am going to pop bags of popcorn, get a beverage, and look at AU!
Yes, SW is a crackerjack Geologist, but his version of True History
has its Lucian of Samosata moments. USA=Atlantis Rising Anew?

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Only Me
6/5/2014 10:48:20 pm

I'm so glad that KIF/A.C./666/whatever alias that has been drawn from the hat posts here. No, seriously. I always look forward to an example proving beyond doubt that some folks are afflicted with serious attention-seeking issues.

The level and frequency of bigotry and hate this individual can muster would almost be noteworthy, if it weren't so passé.

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666
6/6/2014 12:46:22 am

Ho-hum, Firstly, Jesus Christ was a magical religious being, Secondly, Jewish scholarship takes a different interpretation of the passages in Josephus relating to Jesus Christ (Louis Feldman being the exception rather than the norm). Thirdly, scholars over the centuries have proposed that the passages in Josephus relating to Jesus Christ as found in Eusebius were forged by Eusebius, Do you care for a bibliography?

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Voila
6/6/2014 01:09:21 am

Voila

The Jesus Christ found within Eusebius is a lot closer to the version of The Nicene Creed than the Jesus Christ referred to during the first century in the epistles of Paul

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 01:19:28 am

Proposed - not confirmed. I propose that you are a baboon with access to a keyboard, and I offer the exact same level of certainty that you offer. The debate's still ongoing about Josephus, and while there is broad agreement that parts of the Eusebius passage were inserted by Eusebius, there is equally broad agreement that the core of the passage was not.

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 01:39:32 am

Scott Wolter will be able to solve these questions perhaps someone should email him?

666
6/6/2014 01:49:58 am

Scott Walter cannot solve the mystery of the missing toilet roll in his own WC

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 02:00:23 am

Wolter believes otherwise, not that I agree with him at all.

But why should I believe you any more or less than I do Wolter both of your seem to ramble on endless about nonsense.

666
6/6/2014 02:18:38 am

You have to convince me you do not engage in superficial discussion

.
6/6/2014 04:49:30 am

KIF/A.C/TripleSixDude --- are you about half
the one, two or three line postings here that
sometimes have very unique, timed and witty
authors? did i get you a tad PO'ed with my
own unique GONZO thusly? dang it, Weebly
likes names and lets me go into a minimalism
that letz me be DaDa-istic so i abandoned my
versions of mongrammed cufflinks and kerchiefs.
KIF -- if at the Scopes Monkey Trial, Darrow was
the obligatory Atheist in an intelligent manner and
William Jennings Bryan's meglomania is revealed
to be equal to Napoleon's + God's + Caesar's as
he assumes he is being very Christian, can I at least
opine that poor Isaac Newton's intelligent design ideas
straddle this great debate in a very sloppy but apt way,
because Old Earth Creationists think J.C was truly
born to the clan of KYNGE DAVID, and is not one of
bisexual/homosexual GREAT CAESAR's "bastards"
who could be a threat to TIBERIUS. Josephus the Very
Heavily Censored Scribe is very very accurate. Did J.C
have a family? Was Saint Helena of a very Christian
bloodline? Was Constantine born in or near YORK and
not LONDINIUM? Did Constantine indulge in ancestor
worship in a Druidic manner when venerating both JOVE + J.C?
Who did Constantine think Christ was if Constantine's
grandfather is Claudius the Second? as far as cruel streaks
go, AUREALIAN was way nastier than THE GREAT ONE's
paternal grand~pappy even when February 14th is taken into
account. In poor PALMYRA, there was a thriving Christian
community, thanks to Zenobia. Many of Palmyra's citizens
die immediately before, during and after the city falls in a manner
like Corinth and Carthage, despite the 500 rough years that
seperate these two city-deaths that are like the orders Aurelian gave.
My point being, PALMYRA also had manuscripts and scholars
and Zenobia claims Cleopatra as an ancestress, and she may
not have been lying. The decision to relocate to Byzantium is
less of a fluke even if Great Constantine is born in or near YORK.

666
6/6/2014 01:39:04 am

What you are rambling on about was first proposed by Geza Vermes and no 2 scholars are in agreement over it - there are as many interpretations of that as there are scholars - and it could be 100% wrong. And these scholars are inevitable closet-churchgoers.

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An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 01:49:06 am

"Could be" isn't "are," which you act so certain of, and you're an obvious partisan of your viewpoint, so "closet churchgoers" is a meaningless ad-hominem. They could sacrifice goats in their spare time and still be right on the question.

Let me be clear about this: I don't have a dog in this fight. I haven't even been to Mass since 2003, I'm hardly a good Catholic. Josephus wrote 2000 years ago, there's plenty of room for the documents to be corrupted at any point in the process. However, you are just as blinkered and arrogant in your presentation of your side as you claim "religion" is in its. You start admitting that there's the possibility of error in your position, and this conversation gets a whole lot more civil.

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666
6/6/2014 01:55:25 am

We're still left with the conundrum that the earliest MS of Josephus dates from the 10th century (Ambrosianus 370), that earlier MSS were in existence but have not survived, that they contained obvious Christian interpolations that were referenced by John of Damascus and by Andrew of Crete, that the Slavonic Josephus serves as another example of this trait with references to non-existent archaeological proofs.

If that is not enough, there is the testimony of Origen that is older than Eusebius that contradicts and is contrary to what is found in Eusebius.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 02:16:36 am

Wait a minute, you mean two authors in the ancient world wrote contradictory statements? Stop the presses! Why, next, you'll tell me that the Roman biographers of the Julio-Claudians had biases in their texts that were driven by their politics, and that you can't take every word they wrote literally, or that Lenin is an unreliable source on economics!

There are three points that should be made regarding Origen - that our texts of Origen are just as incomplete and corrupted as our texts of Josephus, that "not saying the same thing at two hundred years' remove" is not the same as "saying the opposite," and that Origen himself is suspect, writing to a purpose and for an audience, not writing as an unbiased recorder of all facts.

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 01:55:28 am

How important is it that there be a historical Jesus?

Fact is the story of Jesus was adopted and became a major religion. Sure it went through many revisions the relevance of those revisions could be argued forever. The reality is that the story of Jesus had a huge cultural impact and for almost the past 2000 years has greatly impacted culture world wide.

So it can be debated over and over whether Jesus was a real person and that would make little difference overall. The fact is that Jesus as the New Testament presents him exists in the mind of people for the past 2000 years. That Jesus as the son of god is real to those who believe and no matter what historians or others prove he will remain real to those who believe.

So while questioning the existence of this spiritual figure might be fun or entertaining does not and will not affect the belief in it. Jesus as a spiritual being has become bigger than who Jesus was a man.

Now maybe in a over time Islam (which still accepts the belief of a spiritual Jesus) or some other spiritual figure will replace the belief of a messiah but in that case one can only speculate. I know from my own experiences and interactions with people that have strong beliefs that nothing will cause them to falter from those beliefs.

Wrong or right people have a right to believe in what they want and proving whether or not Jesus was a real person is not going to affect those beliefs.

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666
6/6/2014 02:03:06 am

Christianity was originally an Apocalyptic Religion, the Romans were not overthrown. And succeeding generations of Christians turned the religion into different directions. Christianity developed into something completely different to what it originally was. And that's what makes the passages in Josephus laughable - and another reason why they are forgeries

Josephus related to Eleazer of Masada the Zealot holding Gnostic beliefs - yet Josephus never mentioned the name Jesus Christ.

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 02:12:32 am

Okay so, what does that have to do with proving endless debating if Jesus existed or not?

Learning about the history of how Christianity changed and evolved is very interesting for some and has its value for some. It however does not change or affect those who already believe.

It is the belief that holds the power and influence and yes people and organizations will forever use and alter that belief to fit agendas.

The fact is Jesus as a spiritual figure is going nowhere soon, not if someone proves he never lived, not if someone proves he has descendants, not it if is proved even that what he preached is 100% different than what is present in the New testament.

The spiritual Jesus is here to stay and most of those who do believe could care less about what historians or researchers discover. Belief in something is stronger than being rational and it always will be, it could be detrimental but history has shown us it is human nature.

666
6/6/2014 02:16:55 am

Descendants?

Holy Blood, Holy Grail referred to Cathars believing that Jesus Christ was just another human being. The authors forgot to reference this load of rubbish belonged to Jules Doinel and his 19th century Gnostic Catholic Church.

Getting the facts right is important, otherwise people end up believing in The Da Vinci Code

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 02:20:20 am

What I find absolutely hysterical is that if there were absolute and incontrovertible proof of the historicity of a Joshua, son of Joseph and Mary, who preached in Galilee in the period in question, was captured and tried by the ecclesiastic authorities, and then crucified by the Romans, you'd then turn around and say "Well it's not THAT Jesus!"

In this entire debate about Josephus, you've insisted that source corruption has rendered Josephus an unreliable source, but the fact remains - he IS a source, he WAS writing shortly after the events in question, and there ARE a number of reputable modern scholars, as much as you choose to handwave them away, who DO believe that he wrote at least one reference about Jesus.

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 02:21:59 am

you are so missing the point. The point is people believe and nothing is going to change their mind, nothing. Maybe in the future the belief will diminish but it will be replaced with another spiritual being, its what humans do.

Bloodline, historical fact all that don't matter to those who believe or if it does it will be incorporated into those beliefs. The belief however will still exist.

So people can go on ad nauseam about the facts behind Jesus and what historian says what that however will not change the fact that people believe in a spiritual Jesus.

666
6/6/2014 02:24:42 am

Of course there are scholars who believe the passages in Josephus about Jesus are genuine. Such careless thinking needs to be put to the critical test.

666
6/6/2014 02:26:49 am

The might of the Empire Diocletian could not eradicate simple minded belief in Christianity. We must concede to that.

There must be room for those people who want to determine the facts and leave the believers aside.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 02:30:13 am

"Careless thinking" would be an a-priori assumption that those passages are wrong, then cherry-picking your scholars to support that conclusion.

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 02:32:12 am

I would rather spend my energies on the carelessness in thinking that causes people to think that others are inferior to others. The fact is no one is inferior to anyone else regardless of what they believe, where the live, what sex they are, what color they are, what their sexual preferences are, what their education level. We are are just people and no better than anyone else.

We all fail in critical thinking in one way or another and our biases and prejudices affect decisions we make in our lives which affects how we accepting we our to others differing opinions.

666
6/6/2014 02:41:54 am

The belief in passages being authentic would never be a priory assumption

666
6/6/2014 02:44:29 am

Scholars believing the passages in Josephus as authentic outnumber those who think otherwise. Being closet-churchgoers is a main factor in that. Here's an example of prejudice for ya

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 02:49:08 am

Never said it was, but then, fact-based considerations are by definition a posteriori, since a priori considerations require no evidence to support them. You start with the position that Josephus never said anything about Jesus; when someone suggests that might not be true, you instead go on and on, at great length, about all of the sources and scholars that say that you're right, while never once acknowledging or addressing any of the sources and scholars that say you're wrong, instead calling them "closet church-goers" and claiming that Louis Feldman is a minority of one. He's not; he's just the most Jewish of the voices in the argument. Further, your primary sources are all from 1800 to 1950, rather than including any more recent scholarship. That's sloppy thinking, because you're failing to account for or address ANY criticism of your position. I hardly claim to be an expert on the subject, but my very brief literature review suggests that since 1950, the scholarly consensus has swung to the idea that while Josephus may be corrupt in parts, the core message is solid. You fail to address ANY of that discussion, then accuse anyone who disagrees with you of "sloppy thinking." Whatever else you may be (and I will freely admit you're an excellent parrot and very good at staying on-message), you're not terribly self-aware.

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 02:49:39 am

Personally I don't see what it matters.

Sure it would be interesting to learn about the "real" Jesus but ultimately it will not affect the history of Christianity.

So for those interested the fact the Jesus was real or not could be interesting and is worthy of exploring but it does nothing to affect the larger picture of the religion. I don't see the quest to prove Jesus was real or not and how different his life was from the way it was presented in the bible as any different to those who are looking to prove UFO's or Bigfoot are real.

The both are interesting topics to some. In fact the proof of the existence of the later two would have a greater impact that the proving or disproving that Jesus was real.

666
6/6/2014 02:55:27 am

Going back to the Geza Vermes theory again. No 2 scholars agree with each other on that. As for 19th century scholarship, that was critical, that was why the testimonies of John of Damascus and Andrew of Crete were considered then and not being ignored like they are today. And belief in authenticity is not going to make their testimonies go away, or the fact the earliest MS dates from the 10th century, or the fact that the Slavonic Josephus promoted non-existent archaeological proofs. The 19th century critical treatment is preferable to the current belief treatment.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 03:07:33 am

Translated: "Scholars who support my conclusion are preferable to scholars who don't."

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 03:07:45 am

You might think that I am trying to stray for the discussion at hand but I am not.

I am trying to understand the relevance of whether or not Josephus is factual or not and how it applies to Wolter's theories as stated in the radio show?

What i get from this all is that people will pick and choose and ignore things to fit there theories

666
6/6/2014 03:13:26 am

"What i get from this all is that people will pick and choose and ignore things to fit there theories"

An Over-Educated Grunt is similar to Scott Wolter, rejecting the facts that mess-up his belief system

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 03:17:49 am

Seems like you are the one being dismissive. I could be wrong but I read it as Grunt is saying everything should be considered along with its potential bias, you are saying that because of potential things should just be dismissed

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 03:18:02 am

Sweetheart, you don't know a thing about my belief system. I've told you why I'm arguing with you, and all you've done is repeat the same three points over and over without admitting the possibility that you're wrong. You're Cato the Elder, thundering about destroying Carthage, to the exclusion of all else.

666
6/6/2014 03:10:58 am

Translated: "Scholars who support my conclusion are preferable to scholars who don't."

Correction: 19th century New Testament scholarship was critical

Today's New Testament scholarship is mostly uncritical and rejects 19th century scholarship

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 03:16:08 am

No, 19th-Century scholarship was rooted in the post-Enlightenment period and was a product of its times. A strong argument could be made that textual scholarship has advanced since then, that new sources have been found (unless you want to say, just as a well-known example, the Dead Sea Scrolls had been found in the 1850s?), and that the scholarly consensus has moved on, while you haven't, because the conclusion you prefer - and it is no more than that, unless you care to offer some sort of proof that you're more than a blowhard arguing online (I offer none; that's precisely what I am, and I know it) - is that of the 1800s.

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666
6/6/2014 03:20:25 am

That's actually true. But it's also true that 19th century scholarship was critical whereas today's scholarship is not. The best "critics" are mavericks like Eisenmann who I wouldn't recommend to anybody,

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 03:24:08 am

I'm curious, have you ever submitted a paper for academic publication?

One of the final steps, after you produce your findings, is that you must defend your conclusions against obvious and occasionally not-so-obvious objections and criticisms of your hypothesis, your method, and your conclusions, and to state how, if you were to repeat the procedure, you would refine your methodology. You have failed to do so at any point in this discussion, which shows, at least to me, that whatever you may claim about being a critical thinker, you're uninterested in actually applying those vaunted critical thinking skills. Instead, you dismiss any criticism of your position as "uncritical," "closet church-goer," or, my personal favorite, "rejecting facts that contradict his messed-up belief system."

666
6/6/2014 03:26:35 am

I am only repeating the 3 points because you are constantly ignoring them.

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 03:27:47 am

Sounds a lot Wolter. I wonder if 666 could get a friend to look his theories over and they agree if that counts as a peer review in his world.

666
6/6/2014 03:34:30 am

As I've mentioned before, New Testament scholarship is something of a cartel that would never accept certain facts relating to Christianity. There are references found in other books, written by scholars who are expert in other fields, that relate to Christian origins and to Christian practices because anthropology and botany is not controlled by New Testament scholarship

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 03:36:14 am

The three points as I see them are as follows:

1. "19th-Century scholarship was critical and modern scholarship isn't."

That's potentially true; it also ignores all more recent developments in the field, to include, at a glance, the Arabic text of Josephus found in the '60s, the Syriac text from the same time, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the fact that at least the circumstantial parts of the New Testament - John the Baptist, Pilate, the ritual of baptism, the ferment of messianic thought in 1st-Century Judaea - are all known, confirmed pieces of history, in favor of spurious repetition of what boils down to "I ignore that which I don't like."

2. "The texts have been corrupted."

So have all extant ancient texts, and there is a broad scholarly consensus today that there is a kernel of the original text still. That you dismiss that consensus does not actually eliminate its existence. Facts, sir, are stubborn things, and interpretations change with time. The fact remains that, while they may not agree on specifics, there IS a broad consensus that Josephus said something about Jesus, in at least two places, and your position to begin was that Josephus, without exception, said nothing at all about Jesus. Since you lack an authentic first-edition source to support that conclusion, it is as unsupported and, to an outside eye, invalid as your views on "uncritical modern scholarship."

3. Anyone who disagrees with you is "uncritical," "sloppy," and has a "messed-up belief system."

And yet you refuse to answer any criticisms of your own position except by parroting it over and over and over, you don't address the fact that you're speaking as if what you say is certain when it is in fact not, you assume your position is superior when it is at best a boggy morass.

666
6/6/2014 03:40:07 am

"there IS a broad consensus that Josephus said something about Jesus"

Going back to Geza Vermes again.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 03:44:15 am

You know what? I'm done. You're convinced that there's absolutely no possibility that Josephus ever wrote anything about Jesus, never mind that, as I said, there are two separate references, and the debate is less about whether he did than the specifics of what might be, never mind that there is no such thing as certainty when analyzing ancient texts, and never mind that my point isn't that there was a historical Jesus, it's that you're certain of an unprovable, and therefore you're operating as much on faith as the Pope is.

666
6/6/2014 03:47:06 am

The reference cited by Origen you're not interested in, because that contradicts what's found in Eusebius. What's more - and more damning - is that New Testament scholarship isn't interested in it either. And you invite me to become a member of such a crass and shoddy set-up?

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 03:47:07 am

Kind of like listening to Wolter talk about the KRS and the other runestones.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 03:49:58 am

No, you ass, I invite you to open yourself to the possibility that you might be wrong, that there are opinions divergent from yours arrived at by people who put just as much time and thought into theirs as your sources (note that I don't say you) have put into theirs, arriving at orthogonally different destinations from the same starting point.

666
6/6/2014 03:52:08 am

Origen was the first Christian who cited passages to Jesus Christ found in Josephus. It wasn't Eusebius. What Origen cited contradicted what is found in Eusebius.

666
6/6/2014 03:55:01 am

It's not "me" that's wrong, but the theory - because there are no facts in existence to back up the theory. Scholars are believing their own theories without any facts to back them up. Anyone could have written those references to Jesus in Josephus. Whole books and academic articles have been written to present the case.

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 03:55:06 am

Grunt are you still more frustrated by Phil?

Just keep telling yourself

"America Unearthed" is a commercially produced and distributed series of TV shows intended to draw and hold the attention of an audience ...

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/6/2014 03:56:39 am

That's nice, sweetheart. I'm done with this argument, because you keep repeating things as if they're carved in stone when they're written on two-thousand-year-old parchment. I do not care about Josephus, Origen, Eusebius, Feldman, Slavonic manuscripts, Arabic manuscripts, Syriac manuscripts, the scholarly consensus about any of this, or whether Scott Wolter believes that Moon Masons built the pyramids as a solar sperm collector to inseminate North America with Jesus-sperm. I care that you, very specifically you, do not admit to any viewpoint other than your own very narrowly defined one, then sit back and comfortably deride anyone who believes otherwise. You can blather about Origen and Eusebius all you like; it does not change the fact that YOU MIGHT BE WRONG ABOUT JOSEPHUS AND REFUSE TO ADMIT IT.

666
6/6/2014 04:06:13 am

Robert E. Van Voorst would like to believe the passages in Josephus to be authentic - but in sober and objective frame of mind commented that authenticity could not be determined by textual analysis alone.

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 03:14:23 am

So Scott Wolter should be reading 19th century scholars to better formulate his theories?

Reply
666
6/6/2014 03:18:28 am

Scott Wolter is not accessing any scholarly material at all. And he couldn't tell the difference between any form of scholarship,

Reply
Matt Mc
6/6/2014 03:21:48 am

That was the point that I was making. He is focusing on the belief not that quest for the historical Jesus or even the understanding of how the spiritual Jesus evolved.

Matthew
6/6/2014 05:03:17 am

The historicity of Jesus is a dead subject. Tacitus' reference alone, accepted by virtually every reputable scholar, effectively ends this debate. We can argue until we're blue in the face as to who Jesus was, but not that he existed.

Reply
666
6/6/2014 05:20:15 am

Tacitus is not accepted by every reputable scholar.
The Annals were unknown prior to the 15th century and no writer of antiquity mentions The Annals,
Another non-sequitur

Reply
666
6/6/2014 05:22:55 am

The Annals of Tacitus were condemned as fakes when they first appeared during the 15th century

John Wilson Ross
Tacitus and Bracciolini
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/9098


666
6/6/2014 05:26:02 am

New Testament scholarship does not even address this

Matthew
6/6/2014 05:33:42 am

By your brilliant reasoning, Pontius Pilate likely didn't exist either as Tacitus' passage is the only documentary evidence of him as well. The annals were also not 'unknown' until the 15th century. The earliest surviving manuscripts date from the 11th century, were brought to public notice in the 14th century and have been accepted as genuine by virtually everybody since then. Van Voorst, Chilton, Evans, Eddy, Boyd, Meier, Fox are a few modern examples, but my favourite quote is from Ronald Mellor, who stated that the Annals is "Tacitus's crowning achievement" which represents the "pinnacle of Roman historical writing." Seriously, give it up bud.

Matthew
6/6/2014 05:45:30 am

I assume of course that you would also throw out Suetonius and Pliny the Younger's references to Christ(ians) and their practices as well? A better tactic might be to argue that the New Testament is riddled with contradictions or don't portray the actual historical figure of Jesus or so on. To reject Christ as a living breathing person is basically to reject all notion of antiquity. Alexander the Great for example is testified to by only four main sources and one highly abridged source (and I've read them all), written hundreds of years after his death and mostly by Romans.

666
6/6/2014 06:19:47 am

"Tacitus' passage is the only documentary evidence of him as well"

No it's not

666
6/6/2014 06:24:28 am

"I assume of course that you would also throw out Suetonius and Pliny the Younger's references to Christ(ians) "

Their works contain references to Christianity. Suetonius is disputed because "Chrestus" could have been a reference to someone else (although if that was a reference to Christianity in Rome it would fit in very nicely with Christian tradition)

The account by Pliny is a reference to the worship of Christ as God ("Christo quasi deo") - nothing there relating to the historical Christ.



666
6/6/2014 06:29:49 am

Ronald Mellor doesn't need any proof to accept that The Annals attributed to Tacitus are authentic - and Scott Wolter is being criticised over accepting things uncritically...

Matthew
6/6/2014 07:30:08 am

"Tacitus' passage is the only documentary evidence of him as well"

'No it's not'

Yes, it is. The only other evidence of Pontius Pilate's existence from non-religious documentary sources is a stone unearthed in 1961, the Pilate Stone. The only other contemporary document pertaining to Pilate is Josephus, whom ironically you have already discounted as a reliable source in that he also mentions Jesus.

Pacal
6/26/2014 04:21:53 am

Tacitus is not the only mention of Pilate, aside from Josephus, the Alexandrian Jewish writer / Philosopher Philo also mentions him.

.
6/6/2014 05:26:39 am

Poor Plato himself could be thought to be a work of fiction
penned slightly more than an aeon ago if we assume that
the manuscripts that crumbled into dust were never penned
or read at all. There are books printed in the 1400s that exist
today, but this is like thinking human history is Fahrenheit 451
and that the human mind is a nebulous quanity in terms of
data storage. recent archological discoveries over the past
150 years have Troy ceasing to be a myth, and long lost boy
kings like Tut becoming more famous than Ramses of the Bible.

Josephus could have had very exact full paragraphs that Trajan
has censored in a herring-gutting manner. the manuscript may
not have had new material inserted, it may be greatly reduced.
There are many ways of censoring, bowdlerizing or doing a very
"G" movie rewrite of "R" or "X" material can be in tandem with
fulsome deletions. when several copies of a manuscript exist,
their discrepancies can be noted. Sometimes a discovery like
the hardened clay tablets of Nineveh's library can return much
to us. IMOHO i feel that Z.Sitchen is either highly accurate or
very much into his own fantasy word, he did study cuneiform in full.

Reply
666
6/6/2014 05:29:25 am

Missing the point --- Eusebius is contradicted by Origen --- nobody wants to discuss this,

666
6/6/2014 05:34:40 am

Oh yes --- the passages in Josephus are authentic --- the passages in Tacitus are authentic --- and guess what: The Gospels are eye-witness accounts, And Jesus Christ was truly the Son of God who performed all those miracles, rose from the dead and ascended to Heaven,

But you know what --- not all people are docile sheep, SILLY ENOUGH to believe in such obvious rubbish.

.
6/6/2014 08:16:07 am

i'm very distantly related to Edmund Burke and at the central
core of Conservative belief is the Traditions by our generational
inheritance that have a most sublime wise irrationality at their
intrinsic core. not all is Logic or Euclidean Algebra or Geometry.

.
6/6/2014 05:51:01 am

Triple Six ---- Humour me. Lets ask a deep question.

LETS ASSUME CONSTANTINE WORSHIPS ANCESTORS ALWAYs.
If he assumes J.C + Zeus are his ancestors, how does he procede
upon trying not to snub or ignore either branch of his family? what
if there is something in the water at York and he thinks he has J.C
as an ancestor, and thru a female line of descent, he has traced
Claudius the Second all the way back to Britannicus or Augustus.
What if he is half Pagan and half Christian? what if he does think
like a Druid? can we move past Arius + WHY i feel Eusebius
functions like a public relations person for the Worldly Church at
that point in tyme? Admittedly mixing oil and water sometimes
creates a neat salad dressing, Constantine is an Imperator in full.
the career of Claudius II half explains why Constatine slays his
oldest son after a palace conspiracy is found out. James I&VI
was very into York and its connection to the Great One historically.
Did Helena have J.C as an ancestor? She's way closer to the dude
than is SW in terms of time. Its her version of Christianity the
"momma's boy" popularizes for the most part, HER faith, her story.
the test was the amateur archaeology they did in the Holy Land as
they riddled out the rebellion in the time of Hadrian and pagan
temples. Could Constantine have read the COMPLETE works
of Josephus in their original Hebrew and/or Latin? Keep in mind
the lore of Plato's Academy is still near to complete then, say an
80 or 90 percentile? not the 5% to 15% we have today? trust me!

Reply
.
6/6/2014 06:01:47 am

Lets leap from Claudius the Second and his famous grandson
to Claudius the First and Seneca's reference to pumpkin pie.
After Nero, it sounds like nearly all descendants of Augustus die.
What if the male bloodlines cease to be because of the purges
at court, but FEMALE lines of descent are possible. what if all
of Constantine's actions can be explained by looking closer at
Saint Helena? what if he as a recent convert from Zeus/Jove
and/or SELF worship on his deathbed partially explains Julien's
very famous backsliding and lapses into something more Pagan?
Julian is his half-nephew, but both emperors/imperators may
have had a similar set of Pagan ideas at a given point in time.
Yes, the Church changes between the time of Constantine and
Theodosius, and then changes again later on, before the Great
Schism, the politics is intense around Constantine the Tenth...

Reply
Tommy Kooker
6/6/2014 06:14:27 am

Pumpkin Pie took over the world in AD 403 - but this information was suppressed by the Vatican.

.
6/6/2014 07:10:48 am

He never worshiped like a wise Persian, its Apollo or nothing.
Don't go total Joseph Campbell on me over this. Just because
a very drunken Diocletian had paper trained his courtiers like
lil puppy dogs don't mean that Flavius Constantius, grandson
of Claudius the Second had to always obey the auld drunkard.
Curiously enuff, a grandson of Diocletian was said to be a
pope early on. Zenobia marries the dude after the sack of
Palmyra, she was a spoils of war reward for him in his prime.
No no no no, Constantine burnt grain to Jove becuz its ancestor
worship he's into. This does beg a J.C bloodline HUGE Q if
looked into within a JOVE context. if Gods are sometimes
exaggeratedly reconstructed long dead mortals who become
god-like when ceasing to be worldly legends, if over time all
stories expand past the factoids, would the Christian verses
Pagan debate have impelled Constantine to hide things, to be
more introspective? Apollo is worked into Jove worship, as is
Athena. Constantine marries a woman rather like the goddess
Diana, but she is connected to the network of courtiers, hence
much of his realm borrows from the past the way his arch did
of Trajan's one. Literally he recycles used & not so used friezes.
In Constantine's universe, God is intelligent an' he designs things
and then walks away for millions of years easy. In poor Fausta's
universe GODDESS is ALL, is everything well past the NOUS
of Plotinus. Crispus was trapped inside this labyrinth of ambitions.

Tommy Kooker
6/6/2014 06:18:21 am

Not only did Constantine read the original and unblemished version of Josephus, untouched and unsullied by Christian hands, he actually read Einstein's Theory and Relativity, as well as Darwin's Origin of Species. The Time Machine was invented in 6033 and they went back in time to show these writings to Constantine, showing that Christianity was wrong and so ensuring Constantine only converted at the moment of his death, continuing being a believer of Sol Invictus up to that point.

Reply
.
6/6/2014 06:30:19 am

seriously, the High Priests of Jove often had FULL copies of
the books they censored. Sounds like the way the Vatican
does things in today's universe from Da Vinci onwards. Galileo
is not a fluke. Josephus had "Reader's Digest" versions fit for
semi-literate peasants and even manuscript pages in his own
hand, Trajan is said to have herring-gutted his books more than
Nerva had the nerve to. Seneca has a famous pupil who may
not have been a total psychpath, Nero was not a dullard. Nero's
daughter marries Vespasian. Britanicus, Claudius's son, flees
to what is now the U.K and he may have converted Christian
because there is a small church in Glastonbury. This question
is rather like the victor of Actium question we read in either
Plutarch or Suetonius, and the poor mayor who fears a death.
The Pumpkinification of Claudius got Nero PO'ed after he is out
of a drunken stupor, and what he tolerated at 15 he does not
agree to when he is 30, hence WHY Seneca dies when he does!
There is a connection between the era of Augustus to Constantine.

.
6/6/2014 06:36:35 am

Constantine was never a whorshipper of Mithra, whether its
the version of Cyrus or Xerxes we are talking about or Aurelian.
His favorite gods + goddesses were Zeus, Apollo, Athena + Diana
but not totally in that order. He knew the Roman oligarchy had
their own family manner, and that Cicero's people were the last
hill-tribe to join the Republic in full. He is an Imperator's grandson.
His mother and his father divorce. He's half Roman + half Christian.

Tommy Kooker
6/6/2014 06:45:02 am

Constantine only became a Christian on his deathbed
He was a worshipper of Sol Invictus up to that point.

.
6/6/2014 06:44:13 am

the power elite of Republican Rome is from seven tribes,
there is a private language that is separate from Latin the
High Priests spoke. Delphi hints at what many Pagan temples
were like, or does the Sun worship of Egypt's Thebes. JOVE
is ancestral, Hercules is legend. Julius Caesar tries to prove
a line of descent from Alexander the Great. Hannibal is said
to be of Plato's bloodline. I am pensively wondering if Constantine
converts like a newbie peasant or a titled aristocrat, and if we
are seeing hints of a search for significance equal to that of
Rome's noble Julius Caesar or Corsica's Napoleon Buonaparte.

Reply
.
6/6/2014 06:53:49 am

Jason Colavito is again trying to tell us things about H2.
Lets try to be nice to Reverend Phil when SW or AU
threads here top 100+ postings like this one just did.
you know some of the other threads only go single digits?
when i began to post here in Weebly, i thought Jason
was somewhat caustic. I am realizing that SW is a nice
creature of habit, the inner self is about to reveal much to us.
This may become more intense as this summer fades away.

Reply
.
6/6/2014 07:28:33 am

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10001/10001-h/10001-h.htm

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/483393/Pumpkinification-of-the-Divine-Claudius

http://www.ancient-literature.com/rome_seneca_apocolocyntosis.html

Nero gets angry at his mother, then poor Seneca dies,
Nero looks less flippy if Zeus the mortal man questions
are akin to Non-Trinity J.C = ordinary mortal questions.

Saint Patrick once liked shamrocks because they did highlight
the Trinity well, it is said. Did Pagan God worship impel some
good Christians to borrow a practice so as to allow an easier
path for the converts? Didst John Calvin seek to purge all the
relics of an ancient way akin to Yule logs? Were our own N.E
Puritans rather dour, willful and frumpy or grumpy always???

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Gunn
6/6/2014 07:29:10 am

Historically fulfilled prophecy proves to those who have eyes to see that Jesus was and is real. The aforementioned periods of time are all covered by instances of fulfilled prophecy, from OT references, carried forward through the NT, and then forward to today, where those who have eyes to see, see prophecy continuing to be fulfilled today. Christ is the center-point of historical and Biblical prophecy...fulfilled prophecy and future prophecy yet to be fulfilled. Christ came in the flesh as a real person, and He died for the sins of the World.

Suck it up, 666.

Reply
.
6/6/2014 07:41:11 am

true.. that.
J.C knew he'd
step into the
prophesy...
and be it.

Reply
Terry Hart
6/6/2014 08:14:00 am

Yuck, pass the sick bag

Reply
.
6/6/2014 08:21:24 am

i still feel Bill Nye won that public debate
in the Ark Park in Kentucky even though
my conceptualization of the very historic
and real J.C is sorta close to Ken Ham's
or even a few of the old Russian icons...

Mandalore
6/6/2014 10:05:05 am

Prophecy is in the eyes of the beholder. I think there may be some Jewish people who would disagree that Jesus is the center of Biblical prophecy. It is impossible to say whether one thing fulfilled prophecy or another. (That's ignoring the problem of the debatable reality of prophecy.)

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Matt Mc
6/6/2014 10:40:53 am

I guess we will all find out when we die. Problem is it is not like anyone can come back and tell people if there is in fact a heaven or hell. Kind of convenient if you ask me.

Maybe Wolter can work with some ghost hunters to find that out.

666
6/6/2014 01:02:16 pm

There is nothing after death - just like there is nothing before birth
Wise up, Jesus freaks

Matt Mc
6/6/2014 01:22:37 pm

Never said there was.

Death is death.

And while I am agnostic I completely respect anyone right to belief, I believe in nothing thats my deal. If someone wants to believe in God or Gods or whatever I do not see what the problem is. If they need to feel that there is some sort of higher power or powers good for them, I can respect that even if I do not agree with it.



Only Me
6/6/2014 05:45:29 pm

"There is nothing after death - just like there is nothing before birth
Wise up, Jesus freaks"

Once again, both a belief and a personal opinion are presented as fact, when there is no scientific way to establish such as factual.

Bigotry and narcissism make an ugly cocktail, indeed.

Gunn
6/9/2014 06:13:01 am

As far as I know, the best way to attempt to persuade an intelligent unbeliever is to challenge her to make a study of all the OT prophesies concerning the coming of the Messiah, then seeing the Jewish anticipations coming true. One after the other, like prophetic clockwork.

Jesus understood the nature of His mission and He accepted mankind's burden of sin upon Himself, and He fulfilled manifold messianic prophecies in doing so. But, is it not true that Israel is still awaiting the 1st arrival of her Messiah, rather than the 2nd coming?

In spite of the numerous, clearly fulfilled prophecies about His coming, Jesus was missed by many as the coming Messiah. No surprise to God the Father. I would suggest that intelligent unbelievers study the pattern of proclaimed prophecies and those which came to pass, in regard to the coming of Jesus.

Humankind is now moving forward through the next stages of prophecy, whether individual humans believe in prophecy or not. Through study, the pattern and evidence of fulfilled prophecy can become clearer, so that you may wonder: how is it possible that all these many foretold things came true? Yes, you will see that it is more than mere coincidence. I'm saying that maybe scientific statistical evidence would sway you...odds and probabilities, if nothing else.

And we haven't even talked about the current prophesies being aligned and fulfilled today. Humankind, including you (Mandalore), should be "hidebound" to God's Word for their own good. This is my viewpoint about the earliest-reaching and farthest-reaching elements of God's Word, concerning prophesy...the glue holding all of these self-evident truths together within the coherent (try it) time-stream we call history.

EP
6/6/2014 02:29:54 pm

Let's suppose (for the sake of argument) that Jesus is a real historical character (leaving aside the question of his divinity).

That wouldn't change the following:

(1) Belonging to his bloodline can't be verified unless we have Jesus's and his mate's own DNA.

(2) If he reproduced and his bloodline survived into the medieval times, then it is overwhelmingly likely that there are too many descendants of Jesus for there to be anything special about his bloodline.

Reply
William
6/6/2014 04:11:53 pm

This. ^^

Reply
Jason Colavito link
6/7/2014 09:50:51 am

Obviously the comments have gotten far off topic, due largely to "666" (who posts under multiple aliases). I'm trying to figure out what to delete, though part of me thinks I should just delete everything not specifically related to the above post. Unless anyone sees some value in keeping 666's comments and the other off-topic discussion up, I will remove them later today.

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
6/7/2014 10:00:27 am

As one of the primary participants, I say kill 'em and don't even put up a gravestone "I have deleted..." post. That was, frankly, ridiculous.

Reply
Mandalore
6/8/2014 06:24:06 am

I'd leave the comments on this page, but prevent such a ridiculous reoccurrence elsewhere. I'd just shake my head and leave this page to its own devices.

Reply
Mark R
6/8/2014 05:15:14 am

I don't get it...Jason mentions deleting 666's posts. And 666's offense? He stepped upon the poorly veiled religiousosity of Grunt. Grunt replies with escalating anger, condescension, snark, and degenerates into name calling. Matt, claiming to be agnostic, happily piles on the nonbeliever...And you guys blame 666?
I came to this site under the illusion that it stood for logic and reason, but the irony is the intolerance for those who do not accept the magical god and Jesus Christian dogma.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
6/8/2014 05:19:00 am

No, I intended to delete his posts because he or she is posting under multiple names and carrying on whole conversations with his/her other aliases. I decided to leave the comments after several people said that they found them valuable. However, I would like to ask that 666 pick one alias and stick with it.

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
6/8/2014 05:32:17 am

And again, you know nothing at all about my religious beliefs. If you'd care to have that conversation, I'm all ears, except for the parts that are teeth. Bluntly, I believe that distilled water free of impurities freezes at 32 Fahrenheit and boils at 212 Fahrenheit; the modulus of elasticity of mild steel is 29 million pounds per square inch; the unit weight of water is 62.4 pounds per cubic foot; the mean distance from Earth to the Sun is eight light-minutes... I believe, in short, in things that you can test. I find internet atheists to be frustrating, self-righteous idiots, because they pronounce judgment on things that you cannot test. Meantime, until they become testable, they're matters of opinion, not fact, and should be treated as such.

The irony of this is that I believe that a historical Jesus would be LESS divine than a made-up figure, because if he's a real flesh and blood person, he is obviously not a god, and is capable of error.

Reply
william smith
6/8/2014 05:54:34 am

I have read all the post on this subject and find very little that addresses Scott Wolters ability to use scientific information to support his theorys. Reading a book or a stone carved in runic letters is no more accurate than the author. If only one book was found that addresses a subject like the KRS then you must take it as face value and use scientific academicly approved technology to prove or disprove its authenticity. The King James Bible has many views from many authors that explain the logic of our existance. Even though this is a translation by man in the 1700's with the inspiration of God it to date has no proven scientific flaws. For one to believe we are created from nothing and nothing remaines after death is no more than a cop out. It even explaines that be aware of the anti Christ (666) who will attemt to lead you down the wrong road. What is (THOUGHT) and where does it go after we are so called dead? The founders of the USA were not all Templars,Masons, Christans, Jews, Mormons and other, however they all said In God we trust.

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
6/8/2014 06:07:06 am

I'm sure this is going to go over well, but since this thread's already a cesspool in that regard...

No proven scientific flaws other than the suggestion that no stars farther than six thousand light-years away actually exist, or that the radioactive decay of granite is a lie, or that the bones of any creature over four thousand years old must in fact be curiously shaped rocks, you mean? As a scientific guide, the Bible is hideously flawed. You are left with two choices: God is lying to you in the Bible, or that God is lying to you in the rocks. Why would an all-knowing, all-good, all-powerful God lie to you?

Reply
.
6/9/2014 05:25:10 am

Grunt --- the 4004 B.C date came from the way my rather
distant kinsman Bishop Ussher strings together Biblical
"begats" for both Charles I + James I&VI and does not let
there be large three or four digit gaps of time between the
family trees. if Moses is contemporary to Tut or Ramses we
can use the dynasties as a yardstick. this takes us back todrunken NOAH celebrating a flood's ending. if its the land
found as the ICE AGE ends, its a different matter than a big
but seasonal flood in the Fertile Crescent or Nile Delta etc.
and we must ask about the "begats" between Noah + Joseph.
hopefully, to get earlier than Noah begs an effort, and when
one realizes that the units of time are elongated the further
back one goes in Genesis, it becomes a metaphor instead
of an absolute yardstick of solar years. Plato was nicer, his
9000 years is 9000 years, but Genesis is a creation myth open
to a myriad of interpretations. Nothing disproves intelligent or
semi-intelligent design, where GOD takes a very long time to
do things and always manifests 85 I.Q points when doing so.

.
6/9/2014 05:50:28 am

CLEARLY if octavius = augustus = roman god by self decree
THEN ~~~~ by Jove... CLEARLY mortal = mortal = mortal
and Zeus himself was once ordinary AND very human + mortal

.
6/9/2014 05:54:16 am

Our Creator Being is slightly dishonest and hath
85 all too human I.Q points which explains much?
St.Thomas Aquinas assumed GOD had more I.Q
points than he did and a compelling reason was
behind all the wise moments of a given complexity.

william smith
6/9/2014 08:06:50 am

Plato's translation of creation and the time of Atlantis was from a conversation he overheard his grandfather talking about. The actual length of a year is in question because the conversation relates to a time before the Julian calendar in about 50 BC. Prior to this most people used the lunar calendar and a year was about 30 days because it took the moon 29.6 days to circle the earth. When you convert the mistranslated years into months you will see many of the dates fall into line with the expected time frame. The lunar calendar was used in America when the modern European came ashore. The oldest known writing is about 5000BC. Stonehenge is about 2500BC, The Great Pyramids in Egypt are about 2200BC. The sinking of Atlantis would have been about 5500BC and not 10,000 years before Plato. The oldest common man made structures in both Europe and the Americas has been stated as Dolmans based on archaeology carbon dating. Their is speculation that these Dolmans were made by the survivors of Atlantis. Note: Cave art in Spain and spear points fall into a time before Atlantis and the introduction of technology from the Island people.

Pacal
6/26/2014 04:10:01 am

Actually the notion that when some of the ancients were talking about "years" they actually meant months goes back to Greek and Roman writers who when faced with the large number of years reported by Egyptians and Babylonian (In the case of the Babylonians hundreds of thousands of years) decided that the "years" referred to were months and in some cases seasons. Later certain Christian thinkers adopted this idea because it fit their much shorter chronology for the existence of the world. (At the time under 5,000 years). Well it is a crock when the Egyptians and Babylonians talked about "years" they meant years they had different words for months and seasons.

BillUSA
6/8/2014 06:18:18 am

I was on my way home to southeastern Pennsylvania from Ocean City NJ yesterday. Being that I hardly ever go there I brought my GPS device with me to find the shortest route to and from that beautiful shore town. I am adept at keeping it updated and with it's operation in transit. So when it kept suggesting that I head north when I wanted to go west, I decided to change it's name to...

(drum roll)

...ScottScott

Reply
peter
6/14/2014 04:41:23 am

J C had three phases
phase 1
the sweet baby Jesus
phase 2
preacher Jesus
phase 3
zombie Jesus
he died for our sins and will return for our brains

tammuz zombie
born dec25 o zombief virgin birth

Reply
peter
6/14/2014 04:52:36 am

ammuz and osiris
born dec 25 of vigin birth rose from dead as zmbies why does this sound like JC is christ another babylon zombie cult aka baal
and the rabbi heard christ was back and as expected a zombie looking a little deshevelled
wake up people its baal back
never worship a man born of this earth as it will just be another Nimrod trick

Reply
Gunn
6/16/2014 12:16:03 pm

As repeatedly foretold, Jesus was born on earth as a helpless human infant, and as God Almighty. Through spiritual and physical victory, He now has custody of the keys of hell and death, and He will be worshiped throughout eternity by a certain number of earth's population.

Big Bang People: Try to condense all matter in the universe down to the size of a pea. Big Bang People: The eternal universe has no realized ending, therefore it has no realized beginning. Scientific Big Bang People, skeptics of God, choose your c/Creator carefully.

You can imagine yourselves to be meaningless within meaninglessness if you want to be. Myself, I prefer to experience the reality of God. Many people on earth have experienced God, while many others choose to be thought of as accidents of pure Darwinism. Are we spiritual diamonds in the rough, needing to be re-born, or space debris?

Make your stand wisely people, for eternity may beckon you from a huge circle, not from a Big Bang straight line. Science can become funny while Black Elk takes his place--takes up space--within a heavenly circle, in a new heaven and on a new earth, if saved.

God both creates and controls the universe, and you, my fellow human, experience the universe while arrogantly attempting to leave Him out?

Ardent skeptics, I wish you well in spite of your non-circular close-mindedness.

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
6/17/2014 01:50:16 am

Actually, it's nowhere near the size of a pen. Try all of the matter in all of the Universe, in an infinitesimally small space. I almost said "in a pinhead," but that, again, would be too large a scale. You seem to think that reason is the death of wonder; you are mistaken.

William Smith
6/17/2014 07:35:13 am

Well said Grunt. Before god created our world he said all was void with no mass. On the first day he said let their be light. On the second day he created the heavens and earth. On the third day he put the planets in orbit. On the forth day he put the sun and moon in orbit with the earth. What light was he talking about on the first day if he did not create the sun until the forth day? It is understood that if matter exceeded the speed of light it would turn into pure energy without mass. The one thing we do have that can exceed the speed of light is thought. I suggest that 666 remember that his thoughts will be with him forever.

Reply
Only Me
6/19/2014 01:11:46 pm

It has always been my personal opinion that science and faith are not mutually exclusive. They walk side by side, enriching each other.

As to 666, he thinks only New Testament scholarship is allowed to be 100% subjective and that life is meaningless, accidental and inconsequential. He apparently doesn't grasp the irony that his personal opinions are completely subjective, and due to his hubris, are ultimately meaningless and inconsequential.

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
6/20/2014 04:33:54 am

I'm staying out of that one. I'm not commenting on yesterday's blog post (that of 19 June 2014) because I don't have anything to add to Jason, it's his blog, it's not KIF/666/whoever's, and I'm not here to debate nihilism and philosophical positions that have been discredited since the Stoics. I have my own beliefs, that, as I've said, tend to lean on the side of what can be tested. He, she, or it is welcome to whatever beliefs he, she, or it chooses. That doesn't mean I have to indulge or respond to them.

Only Me
6/20/2014 08:18:23 am

No problem, Grunt. Considering the shellacking you gave him/her/it the last time, I encourage you to take it easy and let the scabs on your knuckles heal ;)

.
9/17/2014 10:48:27 am

As a self imposed penance for my many sins i read
the entirety of the longish upwards of 1,350+ postings
"pseudo-diploma" thread here from bottom to top as
i was becoming more pleased that my humble laptop
did not encounter difficulties. Early on, many earnest commentators were directing short letters to Scott W.
and had glowing things to say about his show. On the
issue of Wikipedia, i know of one MOOC class that had
people reading the articles & also some more accurate
and scholarly articles. Usually college level papers that
heavily rely on Wikipedia are marked down. If S.W talks
about a Wikipage, a screenshot is a way to freeze it in time.
The KRS is a solid object, at least, but DNA strings have
yet to thoroughly tell us all about our ancestors. Specific
genes have their migratory patterns, in time things will all
cease to be either erudite guesses or folklore. Is S.W correct?

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