Musicians, being the creative type, seem prone to supporting fringe ideas. We’ve had metal bands that sing about ancient astronauts and the Insane Clown Posse considering magnets to be a form of magic. The hip hop community created a stir by causing conspiracy theorists to foam at the mouth over Illuminati imagery in hip hop videos. Now one rapper is taking the fringe beliefs all the way back to before Eratosthenes by denying that the Earth is round. I had never heard of the rapper B.o.B., born Bobby Ray Simmons, before he got into a feud with physicist Neal DeGrasse Tyson over the shape of the Earth, but it no longer surprises me to see public figures openly advocating ridiculous notions. B.o.B. thinks that the Earth is flat because he isn’t able to see its curvature firsthand, and seems to believe that there is a conspiracy to deceive people into believing that it is round, claiming that the public had been “indoctrinated into the heliocentric belief system” by “the greatest liars in history.” B.o.B., who espouses other conspiracy theories in an apparent bid for media attention, did offer one good piece of advice: He advised those who disagree with him to stop listening.
The flat earth theory has been discredited for so long that when Cosmas Indicopleustes advocated it in the sixth century as a Christian fundamentalist reading of the Bible, he was already laughed at in his own time, not least by John Philoponus, the theologian. However, in the Atlantic Lizzie Wade writes that B.o.B. isn’t simply a kook ranting against science but rather seems to be someone who is genuinely trying to understand why his observations of reality fail to align with scientific theories. Wade argues that B.o.B. is part of a growing number of people who were cut out of the scientific revolution that began with relativity and quantum mechanics, one that divorced our understanding of reality from everyday observations. In short, B.o.B. can’t be faulted for mistrusting a scientific establishment that does a poor job of explaining how abstract ideas apply in real world settings. “It’s just a bunch of amateur theorists trying their best to feel at home in the universe. … So let a million theories flourish, including #FlatEarth. When they come from a place of such genuine curiosity and creativity, who cares if they’re wrong?” I care. Proposing bad ideas to make oneself “feel” better has consequences because bad ideas lead to bad conclusions, and bad conclusions can spiral into dangerous problems. Sure, we can laugh at the Flat Earth claims, but I’m not sure I can agree with Wade that they are “fundamentally different from climate change denial, creationism, or the anti-vaxx movement” because they aren’t motivated by ideology. At the grossest level, the ancient astronaut theory is not inherently ideological, though it is today often associated with right wing conspiracy theories. Many of its believers approach ancient astronaut claims from “genuine curiosity,” and yet, when these bad ideas are taken to their logical conclusion, they have devastating consequences not just for our understanding of the past but also for our respect for native peoples. Eugenics, similarly, was not originally an ideology but a supposed science, embraced by liberals and conservatives alike. Its consequences are obvious. Phrenology emerged from “genuine curiosity” about the mind and ended up as a tool used to prove white supremacy. To take a fairly clear example: Colonial Americans were genuinely curious about the people who built the ancient mounds of the United States. They proposed a range of theories out of “genuine curiosity,” and of those “million theories,” the U.S. government selected those that conformed to specific ideologies, and we ended up with Native American removal, the Trail of Tears, and cultural genocide, all justified by bad ideas about who “really” built the mounds. The bad ideas weren’t always intentionally ideological (at least their advocates wouldn’t have known they were being ideological in the context of their time), but they ended up serving that purpose anyway. Wade also seems to dismiss B.o.B.’s accusations that “liars” have “indoctrinated” the public, which is perhaps the more dangerous claim than his arguments about the shape of the earth. We laugh at the Flat Earth because it is the one claim that doesn’t seem to have a directly negative application, and one that too few people support to raise it to the level of a danger. However, as Cosmas Indicopleutes notes, the Flat Earth is a fundamentalist reading of the Bible and has served that purpose off and on in history. I will concede the B.o.B. is not advocating it for fundamentalist reasons. But if we as a society say that bad ideas are harmless as long as the people who propose them have good intentions, we abdicate the responsibility to educate on the methods of science and advocate for the best understanding of the world available to us. It would mean that we afford more deference to intention than results, and judge ideas based on their advocates’ alleged moral virtue than on their correctness. The fact is that we can’t predict whether a given proposal will ultimately have positive or negative social consequences. There may be times when learning facts about reality will have an overall negative impact. But we certainly know that wrong ideas will eventually come into conflict with reality and create larger problems.
40 Comments
Jose S
1/29/2016 11:03:34 am
DeGrasse Tyson's response hilarious, and so true
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Ysne58
1/29/2016 12:57:49 pm
I just had to share that on facebook. Also Scott Wolter officially became a Mason last year. He is on the list in the latest Minnesota grand mason publication.
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Ysne58
1/30/2016 12:31:20 am
http://www.mn-masons.org/sites/mn-masons.org/files/MN%20Mason%20Jan%20Feb%202016.pdf
tm
1/30/2016 01:26:07 am
I read that they arrested some extremist in Milwaukee recently. I was wondering why someone would want to plan a machine gun attack on a Masonic temple.
Ysne58
1/30/2016 07:06:29 pm
Err. sorry it's page 8. That last page of the news letter.
Grafittibird
2/3/2016 10:10:22 am
Geez, I've always wondered why he didn't just suit-up and show up with his beloved Templars.
Mike Morgan
1/29/2016 08:17:22 pm
Ooowwww, oh no he did-dnt!
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Mike Morgan
1/29/2016 08:34:29 pm
Ooowww! Oh no he did-dnt!
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DaveR
1/29/2016 11:06:43 am
All B.o.B. needs to do is sit at the ocean and watch sail boats, either coming or going it doesn't matter, and then he'll see the curvature of the Earth.
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Colin Hunt
1/29/2016 11:37:28 am
DaveR - succinctly put! Any child can watch a boat slowly sink below the horizon to prove the Earth is round, and not suddenly disappear as it falls of the edge! I guess B.o.B., and fellow flat Earth believers, will never take a cruise, or fly internationally, for fear of falling into oblivion!
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Rose McDonald
1/31/2016 07:12:58 pm
Members of the flat earth society are so heavily brainwashed into their beliefs that when they see a ship disappear over the horizon they'll say it fell of the edge of the planet.That this intellectual dim bulb (BoB) has a following is just one more example of the dumbing down of America. Are there really people who don't realize this guy doesn't know what he's talking about?
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V
1/29/2016 11:09:00 am
Eugenics is actually a really, really good example of this, because at its core, SCIENTIFICALLY, it's a sound idea. If only those individuals with certain traits are allowed to breed, those traits will become dominant. We do it with cats, dogs, even plants.
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Time Machine
1/29/2016 12:30:42 pm
But the people of the Bible are God's Chosen People.
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Only Me
1/29/2016 05:04:05 pm
And that comment has nothing to do with anything V said.
V
1/29/2016 10:50:20 pm
Yeah, and the people who were actually making eugenic decisions, sweetie, were NOT "the people of the Bible" and in fact "the people of the Bible" were being put to death by the millions.
Gerard Plourde
1/29/2016 11:52:46 am
"When they come from a place of such genuine curiosity and creativity, who cares if they’re wrong?"
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DaveR
1/29/2016 12:16:03 pm
He should have just used his initials for his rap name...B.S.
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Clete
1/29/2016 01:08:37 pm
I seldom pay attention to whatever "celebrities" say about much of anything. Many times their ideas are ill-formed and they spout them off more to generate publicity and attention then for any other reason.
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Gerard Plourde
1/29/2016 01:18:25 pm
Wade's assumption that B.o.B.'s difficulty is the result of being left behind by the scientific revolution and his observations as an example of an attempt to somehow make sense of his observations is also wrong. As Colin Hunt points out proof of the earth's circular nature is readily observable where the true horizon line is visible, i.e. by the seashore. B.o.B.'s observation is faulty at best and disingenuous at worst because he fails to take into account that land observations are tainted by the irregular nature of the earth's surface. If the cities he is looking at are on ground that is higher than sea level and if they are also on ground that is a higher elevation than his vantage point, they will be visible event though theoretically they should be below the horizon.
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C. Gaulke
1/29/2016 01:31:20 pm
"Wade also seems to dismiss B.o.B.’s accusations that “liars” have “indoctrinated” the public, which is perhaps the more dangerous claim than his arguments about the shape of the earth."
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DaveR
1/29/2016 02:25:20 pm
Exactly, because anybody who doesn't agree with him, all he has to do is say "Well, you've been brainwashed and indoctrinated into the system, therefor I can ignore anything you say that contradicts anything I believe."
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Graham
1/29/2016 08:23:09 pm
"Wade also seems to dismiss B.o.B.’s accusations that “liars” have “indoctrinated” the public, which is perhaps the more dangerous claim than his arguments about the shape of the earth."
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Jen
1/29/2016 02:10:47 pm
If you want some entertainment, read the comments to the Atlantic article. For the most part, the author gets deservedly slammed for her "aw, isn't he cute?" attitude.
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Only Me
1/29/2016 05:08:12 pm
I'd almost like to hear B.o.B. explain how every photo taken of the planets and moons in our solar system shows they are very clearly spherical, not flat.
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Mike Y
1/31/2016 10:32:20 pm
Ignorance just about sums it up. It's too much work to understand scientific facts, much easier to make up something easily explained. Even if it's demonstrably wrong, it doesn't matter to them and any attempt to talk sense to them gives them the chance to play the victim.
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Shane Sullivan
1/29/2016 06:13:33 pm
"Musicians, being the creative type, seem prone to supporting fringe ideas."
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crainey
1/29/2016 08:31:06 pm
The Earth is flat. Sounds like something I would expect to hear from a GOP candidate. Climate change is a hoax; the Earth is 6000 years old; evolution is a lie. I would just assume this rapper was a Republican.
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Uncle Ron
1/30/2016 02:28:44 pm
One thing's for sure. There isn't any classified information on his server.
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flip
1/29/2016 09:19:45 pm
It's not that people are being left out of the loop by abstract science concepts: the arts is FULL of woo. It's because every idea in the arts is acceptable (post modernism at its best) and that for artists, criticism is a thing to be avoided. You have a combination of people who were likely never good at science to begin with, averse to any kind of critical opinion, and a lack of interest in anything other than pure freedom of expression. Echo chambers keep the whole thing going and its also where you'll most often hear the expression "you believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want". Any trip into any arts arena, whether it be Etsy, hip hop, or your local theatre, will showcase a ridiculously high percentage of people who believe in alt med, ancient Eastern philosophy (chakras, etc), anti-vax and any other thing. This isn't about the problems of science so much as it is about artists being too uncritical about the things they believe and never having to deal with the need to be accurate or facts-based.
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V
1/29/2016 10:43:43 pm
I actually take great exception to this post. This may be true of pop artists, but people who are actually trained in the arts as opposed to self-taught, whether it's music, visual arts, stage and theater, whatever, HAVE TO study science. Visual arts require anatomy studies, color theory, psychology, the science of vision--and if it's animation or film, physics and chemistry. Music requires psychology, auditory physics, and a pretty intensive amount of mathematics. Stage and theater require sciences from both courses of study. Furthermore, in order to be an actual artist, you ABSOLUTELY MUST learn to both give and take criticism--ie, think critically.
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Shane Sullivan
1/29/2016 11:13:21 pm
It's probably also worth noting that post-modernism is far from universally embraced in art, and that obsession with narrowly-defined sets of rules is a time-honored tradition in western art.
Ysne58
1/30/2016 12:34:06 am
I knit and crochet. I design my own patterns. Just being able to follow a pattern requires at least basic knowledge of math and some engineering skills.
Uncle Ron
1/30/2016 02:32:42 pm
Thank you, V. You saved me a whole lot of typing and said it better than I could have.
Mike Jones
1/30/2016 12:11:13 pm
"It's also not curiousity: if artists were more curious about the truth, rather than what they wish were true, they'd take the time to learn more about the facts". Seriously? I am a self taught artist and I associate with many who are as well. I can assure you that that statement is not true. Actually, I'm trying to take the high road. What I really need to say is go fuck yourself.
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Mike Jones
1/30/2016 12:12:54 pm
Sorry y'all. That was for "flip".
Pacal
1/29/2016 09:21:40 pm
It is clear that Lizzie Wade did little to no research on B.o.B. before writing her piece. B.o.B. is not sincere investigator who is asking questions and has been "left out" of Science education but a true believer in conspiracy woo. Shamelessly Wade ignores B.o.B.'s rants about a vast conspiracy to hide the 'truth" of a flat earth with the conspiracy lie of a round earth. Why? Well because that would destroy her narrative trope of B.o.B. being a sincere investigator left out of Science education and instead place him in the same camp as woo merchants and witch hunters.
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Mike Jones
1/30/2016 12:33:17 pm
Sorry but I cannot get over flip's comments. First off "artists" is a term that encompasses folks like DaVinci, and John James Audubon . "This isn't about the problems of science so much as it is about artists being too uncritical about the things they believe and never having to deal with the need to be accurate or facts-based" hardly seems to apply. I'm looking at one of my bookshelves: "Gray's Anatomy", Charles Hudson's "The Southeastern Indians", "Handbook for Georgia Mayors and Councilmembers", Cali and Dougill's "Shinto Shrines", Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine". Yea, being an artist is a fact free lifestyle.
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Shane Sullivan
1/30/2016 02:34:05 pm
I didn't want to make too much of what flip said, but I know quite a few artists myself--mostly painters and musicians, both self-taught and formally trained--and I've never met one who wouldn't at least want to learn the history of what they do, and the great artists who came before the. It doesn't get much more "facts-based" than history.
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Shane Sullivan
1/30/2016 02:34:46 pm
Before *them*, sorry. 1/31/2016 02:02:01 pm
Has he never flown in an airliner? You can see the curve of the Earth on a nice clear day up there. I have a friend who saw him perform in Memphis as part of some collection of artists. He says the people couldn't wait for him to finish and get off the stage, he was so bad. The only thing that bothered me was NDT tweeting "Being five centuries regressed in your reasoning doesn’t mean we all can’t still like your music". It's more like 22+ centuries. The "Five centuries" bit tends to lend credence to the claim that Columbus proved the Earth is round when in fact he was actually wrong about the size of the Earth and was lucky land happened to be where it was. I know NDT knows better.
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AuthorI am an author and researcher focusing on pop culture, science, and history. Bylines: New Republic, Esquire, Slate, etc. There's more about me in the About Jason tab. Newsletters
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