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Alan Butler and Janet and Scott Wolter Talk Goddess Worship, Masonic Truth, and New Projects

3/22/2016

49 Comments

 
Last week Alan Butler and Janet Wolter appeared on The Secret Teachings, a fringe podcast, to promote their book America: Nation of the Goddess, joining host Ryan Gable, who just finished raising $1,000 from his listeners to attend the Contact in the Desert ancient astronaut summit. Scott Wolter joined in part way through. The interview lasted three hours, and you will forgive me if I didn’t listen to every word. I don’t have that kind of time. I skipped most of the book summary and repeated claims to focus on what passes for new information in fringe world.
The interview started with Gable saying that he feels that feminine divine energy is unfairly “oppressed” by “the overt destructive qualities of the male.” As a male, I have never felt overtly destructive, and Alan Butler’s appeal to evolutionary psychology to explain supposedly inherent differences between male and female energy is annoying, particularly when Butler suggests that men developed an ideology of dominance after they learned through animal husbandry how babies get made and thus determined men were the active players in the fertility drama. (Is that so? How did babies get made before then!) Janet Wolter’s suggestion that spirituality is based on the cycle of the seasons, and thus the female’s role in bringing life, is also a bit facile, if for no other reason than the summer-winter duality is a northern European idea, while in the Middle East the duality of the wet and dry seasons was more important. “Spring” rebirth in northern Europe isn’t the same as the autumn arrival of the wet season in the Middle East. Therefore, the “spring” rebirth of life in Europe did not correlate to the August death of Tammuz in the killing summer heat, for example.
 
A large chunk of the interview is devoted to summarizing their book, to which they add little new and in fact seemed almost as though they were actually less informed than they were when writing the book. Mrs. Wolter is not a natural speaker, and she seems to struggle a bit in articulating her ideas, and from time to time she stops to ask Butler if she remembered mythology correctly. As she flails around in trying to describe the Washington Monument as a giant penis penetrating the Ellipse, she frankly sounds like she’s making things up thanks to her combination of a lack of detail and efforts to grasp at vague notions of the “sun god,” “the earth goddess,” and “eggs.” Butler discusses solar myths that were embarrassingly false when the Victorians were in their Solar Hero obsessive phase. For them, every myth and legend is the story of saving the sun from being extinguished.
 
Ryan Gable is just as nutty as the rest of them: He claims that the Kennedy memorial in Dealey Plaza has fourteen parts because it “exactly” mirrors the fourteen pieces of Osiris, which Butler finds “very significant.” Gable also thinks that Easter is the festival of Ishtar, despite there being no etymological connection between the two vaguely similar words.
 
Gable identifies the statue atop the Capitol building in Washington as Persephone, the Greek goddess of the dead, but Butler and Wolter do nothing to dispute this false claim. “She was kind of like a female version of the Attis myth,” Butler lies, assuming that planned Phrygian cap she was to wear would make her Attis, rather than its explicit association from Rome onward as the cap of freedom. (That’s why it appears on many coats of arms, symbolizing freedom.) Gable is particularly taken with Persephone and pomegranates (the food she eats in the underworld), and the three participants in the conversation, none of whom seems to have a detailed understanding of mythology, then speculate on the role of fruit in mythology (particularly the identification of fruits with immortality) until Butler and Wolter all but admit to being beyond their depth, forcing Gable to restrict himself to questions about their book.
 
I confess to being fairly confused when Butler suggests that the Holy Spirit is a “missing goddess” in a male-dominated Christian religion, and I can’t say I’ve ever heard anyone argue that position. Nor have I heard anyone argue that “George Washington” chose the site of Washington, D.C. based on its proximity to Maryland and Virginia because he believed the two states to represent the Magdalene and the Virgin respectively. Poor Queen Mary and virgin queen Elizabeth. It looks like they weren’t aware that the states named for them were frauds engaged in feminine subterfuge! Butler says it’s “unusual” to name territories after monarchs--pace ex-British places like Alberta, Prince Edward Island, Victoria, etc.; French places like Louisiana; Franz Joseph Land, etc., etc. Butler adds that Washington, D.C. uses neo-Classical architecture and female statues “beyond all proportion,” whatever that means. He says that when you are a believer in conspiracy theories, every female image becomes a goddess. Apparently other world capitals don’t have as many female statues (Is that even true? Who counted?), though this would seem to be more of an argument for Europeans’ historic veneration of masculinity than anything else.
 
About halfway through, Scott Wolter jumps into the conversation, and Gable asks them if the so-called Venus Families (the alleged descendants of Jesus’ imaginary children and other semi-Biblical figures) have ever contacted them. Bulter alleges that the Venus Families, who all go by the name “Michael,” send him messages. Scott Wolter agrees that many people, some named “Michael,” have emailed, called, and texted to tell him that they are part of the Holy Bloodline conspiracy and to encourage Wolter to continue plumbing the depths of conspiracy. All of them praised Wolter for being “on the right track.” The three conspiracy theorists say that the Venus Families are “warm” and friendly, and none have ever threatened them f or revealing the truth about their millennia-long effort to destroy conventional civilization. “We see what they’re doing, we agree with what they’re doing,” Scott Wolter said. “I support what they’re doing,” he adds, claiming that the Holy Bloodline is devoted to bettering the world and society. “I don’t know how you can say that’s a bad thing.”
 
If you found that convincing, then you likely would have loved Janet Wolter’s attempt to explain her hypothesis that baseball is an allegory for goddess-worship in Freemasonry. Her husband jumps in a few times to try to save her rocky relation of her and Butler’s ridiculous analysis, though this time they leave out the most ridiculous claim from the book—that the baseball diamond is a vagina. Instead, they claim this time that the diamond shape represents the Masonic square and compass.
 
This leads to numerological speculation, returning us to the number 14. Scott Wolter, who is a Freemason, praises Masonry and asserts that the story of Hiram Abiff, buried for 14 days, is identical with Osiris, cut into 14 pages, and Jesus, with the 14 stations of the cross. All of this, he says, is repeated in the Kensington Rune Stone, where numerological evidence—the number 14—connects the Rune Stone to ancient mysteries. More likely the “14 days’ journey” on the Stone is more likely due to the modern carver thinking about two weeks. Nevertheless, Wolter argues that the numbers on the Rune Stone are closely related to the initiation ceremonies of Masonry—the ones he just completed last fall—tracing a Mason’s journey. So that’s his new KRS secret: In addition to all the other codes Wolter already found in the stone, and which he believes remain valid, the KRS is also part of a Masonic tradition that he believes predates Masonry itself.
 
The group made a bunch of other claims, ranging from unsupported to absurd, and then Gable opened the show to callers. In response to one caller, a self-described descendant of the Merovingians and a Templar from the imaginary Priory of Sion, Scott Wolter agrees that the reference to fishing on the Kensington Rune Stone refers to Jesus commissioning his Apostles to become fishers of men, so therefore the carvers were part of a Christian conspiracy doing missionary work. This leads to a conversation about Fisher Kings, how astrology controls religion, the importance of Pisces, and why all of this refers back to the Babylonian figure Oannes, the fish-man civilizing hero. Scott Wolter finishes by saying that “academics” can’t possibly understand this material because they have no experience with the mythology, and none had been initiated in the mysteries that Wolter et al. explore. Given that none of the “mysteries” remain except for Freemasonry, I presume Scott Wolter thinks that Masonry gives him special insight. But as someone who has read all of the ancient texts that the Three Stooges know mostly from secondhand sources—often in the original language—I can’t help but disagree. Their ideas come from collections of secondary sources building on and amplifying one another, but they are founded on nothing solid. Trace any one of their ideas back, and they vanish into misinterpretation, falsification, and hoaxing. Their claims only work if you assume that Freemasonry holds special truths, and that their mythology recalls real events from medieval and ancient history. “They go back thousands of years,” Scott Wolter says, tracing them back to Akhenaten and “King Tut.” “This is an ancient craft,” Wolter added, saying that outsiders who have not been initiated into Masonry can’t understand how the emotion of Masonry’s rituals proves its antiquity.
 
They don’t.
 
The Masonic stories are made up. We can watch them evolve in the documentary record, and see where they came from. (See, for example, the Masonic texts on my Watchers page, which clearly grow out of corrupt and partial medieval legends.) Wolter’s own imagination and his emotional need to believe has led him to accept a mythology concocted in the Early Modern Period and to presume it to be objectively true in its appeals to an antiquity that the documentary record fails to support.
 
As the show comes to a close, Butler and the Wolters agree that academics and the education system are indoctrinating children, which is “programming” them through “classical conditioning” to reject the truth in favor of politically convenient lies.
 
But since this is a fringe show with listeners who are even more out there than the guests, the final question came from an ancient astronaut believer who feels that Martians “took us over” in the days of Lemuria and Atlantis. He wanted to know if space aliens were responsible for suppressing the goddess with their “masculine force.” I’d laugh, but this the same theory that the alien believer who shot a pastor in Idaho before delivering a manifesto to the White House also believed. Scott Wolter says that a Native American told him that “Jeremiah Sitchin” (i.e. Zecharia Sitchin) proved that one of our chromosomes is extraterrestrial. “I’m hearing about it, not just from this Native elder, but from other people,” Wolter said, while declining to endorse the idea. Butler, who once argued that the moon was built by time-traveling Freemasons, sidesteps the alien question and instead identifies Atlantis as North America’s Minoan colonies. He says that he and the Wolters believe that the Minoans mined copper in the Great Lakes after 2000 BCE, even though no evidence supports this.
 
In the last minutes, Wolter declares that the astrological change to the Age of Aquarius has led to a widespread change in human civilization. He announced an East Coast lecture tour for the Wolters, and Janet Wolter and Alan Butler conclude that they are going to explore new cities for more goddess symbolism. Scott Wolter is planning a new book to link the Kensington Rune Stone to the Talpiot Tomb. He says that he has pitched a new show to the History Channel and plans to hear back on that soon.
49 Comments
DaveR
3/22/2016 01:34:18 pm

What's amazing is they can seemingly make up anything they want and people believe them. It appears the more far fetched and ridiculous the claim, the better people love them and buy into the farce.

Reply
Time Machine
3/22/2016 02:51:40 pm

The podcast interview sounded like a typical New Age convention.

Reply
Clete
3/22/2016 02:01:39 pm

Jason, I disagree with one of your statements, even one of the three stooges have more intelligence than Alan Butler and the Wolters combined.

Reply
Only Me
3/22/2016 02:11:11 pm

Wow. Wolter and company are even dumber than I thought, which is pretty astonishing.

Reply
Shane Sullivan
3/22/2016 02:16:57 pm

I'll never understanding why Wolter would choose to lay bare all the hard-kept secrets of these hidden cabals he claims to support.

Reply
Salt
3/22/2016 02:54:58 pm

The second paragraph is pure Goddess religion and feminist spirituality and has been discussed in their literature, on their websites, and in Jungian psychology for decades. They run from the simplistic to the academic. That's for those who scoff at religion anyway to pick away at. As for the rest -- pure fringe. And of all the serious Goddess religion and feminist spirituality websites I've been on over the years I've read nothing remotely like Wolter & Co's cultish claptrap.

Reply
Time Machine
3/22/2016 02:59:44 pm

>>> pure Goddess religion and feminist spirituality

Constituency of runny jelly devoid of any historical pedigree, like modern witchcraft

Reply
Uncle Ron
3/22/2016 03:04:09 pm

"Butler adds that Washington, D.C. uses neo-Classical architecture and female statues “'beyond all proportion . . ..”'

I can't help thinking that throughout the ages men just liked looking at naked women. Does anyone remember about 15 years ago when the Dept. of Justice bought drapes to hide the nude statues in their building? ;-)

Reply
Time Machine
3/22/2016 03:12:59 pm

There is a statue of the Goddess of Liberty atop Texas State Capitol building holding - dare I say it, a pentagram

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/goddess-of-liberty-statue-on-top-of-texas-state-stock-video-footage/477246607

Reply
Kathleen
3/22/2016 03:42:30 pm

Could the pentagram have anything to do with Texas being the Lone Star State?

Reply
Not the Comte de Saint Germain
3/24/2016 05:13:28 pm

That's exactly what it is. Texans put the Lone Star in everything.

Not the Comte de Saint Germain
3/22/2016 03:25:35 pm

Regarding the idea that the Holy Spirit is a "missing goddess", there are some traditions that regard the Holy Spirit as feminine. Obviously it's not a conventional Christian belief, but some unconventional Christians have adopted it. The most basic reason is simply intuitive. If there's a father and a son, shouldn't there be a mother? (This is the exact thought my ex-Catholic art history teacher had as a child when hearing about the Trinity.)

The belief also has some tenuous grounding in Judeo-Christian tradition. Christians at least sometimes equate the shekhinah, the Hebrew term for God's presence, with the Holy Spirit, and Kabbalistic tradition often regards the shekhinah as feminine. There is also a non-mainstream Catholic theologian, Leonardo Boff, who has argued that because Mary was a vessel for the Holy Spirit, she should be virtually equated with it.

Reply
Time Machine
3/22/2016 03:29:05 pm

There are churches without altars (Quakers).
Just goes to show how diverse Christianity is and how much adrift it is from its origins.

Reply
Only Me
3/22/2016 04:49:06 pm

First, you have to define its origins. You said it yourself, "To date, no-one has provided a definitive definition of Christianity, since its origin."

Time Machine
3/22/2016 05:09:57 pm

I said no-one knows who the people were that were responsible for the creation of the Christian movement (suggesting it all began "by ear" (ie, without any orchestrated game plan).


Only Me
3/22/2016 05:39:49 pm

Follow along with me.

1) You said Christianity's diversity shows how "adrift it is from its origins".
2) I said you first have to DEFINE those origins.
3) You said on another blog post no one has provided a DEFINITIVE definition of Christianity, since said origins.

If you can't define Christianity, you can't determine how "adrift" it is from its early beginnings. That's like telling someone they're off-course, when you don't know which direction they were facing when they started their journey.

Time Machine
3/22/2016 06:03:24 pm

You are unaware of the fact that skeptics have been saying very similar -- if not identical things -- for a very long time. That those behind the origins of the Christian movement are unknown --- and once the figure of Jesus became established there was even more reason to keep that information hidden and obliterated,

The ceremony of the mass is the central aspect of Christian worship and its existence and misuse is the central theme found in some of Paul's letters. Therefore congregations with a eucharist existed within Christianity from the get-go. This was in existence prior to the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in 70AD.

What's more, and this is crucial, there was no dispute between Paul and Peter over the divinity of Christ as preached by Paul -- contrary to what many have claimed (Barrie Wilson, James Tabor, etc).

Only Me
3/22/2016 06:35:33 pm

I'm very much aware of what critics say.

"those behind the origins of the Christian movement are unknown ---and once the figure of Jesus became established there was even more reason to keep that information hidden and obliterated"

Speculation, no different from the fringe claims discussed on this blog.

Time Machine
3/22/2016 07:58:06 pm

No, it's not speculation at all, but valid conclusions as part of critical research. It's the acceptance of the Gospels on face value as "historical documents" that is fringe speculation.

The previous discussion established how the Gospels cannot date from the first century. This claim was unknown to19th century critical Biblical scholarship and was only introduced during the 20th century without any historical or documentary reason.



Ysne58
3/22/2016 09:37:52 pm

I'm pretty sure Paul joined in to do his best to destroy/sidetrack from within a group that he was unable to destroy while he was an outsider.

Time Machine
3/22/2016 10:11:14 pm

We've got absolutely nothing to back that up. We've got no information about what happened to Paul dating from the first century and also nothing from secular historical accounts.

Only Me
3/23/2016 09:57:38 am

"The previous discussion established how the Gospels cannot date from the first century. This claim was unknown to19th century critical Biblical scholarship and was only introduced during the 20th century without any historical or documentary reason."

No, the previous discussion established you prefer older scholarship from two centuries ago, while attributing consensus among modern scholars as resulting from them being "churchgoers" and Christians. That ridiculous assertion can't be proven, as you'd have to provide evidence that all modern scholars—without exception—are what you claim them to be.

Time Machine
3/23/2016 11:24:03 am

The ridiculous assertion made by modern uncritical Biblical Scholars that the Gospels date from the first century cannot be proven and is ridiculous. This assertion did not exist during 19th century Biblical scholarship that proposed the Gospels dated from the mid second century based upon the evidence.

Those who claim that the Gospels date from the first century cannot provide any backup evidence --- they cannot put their money where their mouth is.

Reply
Time Machine
3/23/2016 11:44:27 am

I have read some of these books where Biblical scholars claim the Gospels date from the first century and those claims are not backed up --- instead stuff like "consensus of opinion" is given.

Here are the facts.

1-Justin Martyr was the first Christian to recognise the existence of Gospels. His quotations from them were not identical but similar.

2-The first Christian to identify Gospels as called "Matthew", "Mark" "Luke" and "John" was Irenaeus of Lyons towards the end of the second century/early third century.

3-The earliest Gospel fragment is Rylands Fragment P52 (few verses from the Gospel of John) - dating from roughly the same period of time when Justin Martyr first mentioned the existence of the Gospels.

4-Tatian, disciple of Justin Martyr produced a document Diatessaron attempting to harmonise the Gospels, after Justin Martyr mentioned their existence - this strongly suggests the Gospels were recent creations - and does the Diatessaron mention Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

It is a fact that there are only a minority of secular Biblical Scholars in existence, of which R. Joseph Hoffmann, Elaine Pagels and Philip Davis are the most prominent.

Add to this the paradox that the Jesus Christ of the first century represented the collective consciousness of the Christian movement, and that his "existence" was a metaphysical religious experience where baptism was cognate with the death and resurrection without any historical narrative,.

Only Me
3/23/2016 12:43:57 pm

"The ridiculous assertion made by modern uncritical Biblical Scholars that the Gospels date from the first century cannot be proven and is ridiculous."

It is equally ridiculous to assert the Gospels date later, when there are no surviving autographs. All we have are later copies to work from. Therefore, there is no proof for a later date, either.

"It is a fact that there are only a minority of secular Biblical Scholars in existence"

This does nothing to prove your claim of modern scholars being churchgoers and Bible bashers. All of them.

"Add to this the paradox that the Jesus Christ of the first century represented the collective consciousness of the Christian movement"

Apparently, he didn't. You keep pointing out the different groups of early Christians that practiced their own versions of Christianity. This, of course, calls into question, once again, your assertion that Christianity is "adrift" from its origins. Origins you admit no one can define. So now we've come right back to the start of this conversation. How can you make the claim Christianity is "adrift" when you offer no basis for comparison?

Time Machine
3/23/2016 04:12:05 pm

>>>All we have are later copies to work from

It's only an assumption that the Gospels are later versions of earlier versions -- this is the same sort of rubbish that fringe historians work from in their absurdities.

There is no evidence that Gospels existed during the first century
It's as simple as that --- otherwise Church Fathers like Papias, Barnabas, I Clement etc would have mentioned them, Their silence cannot be explained,.

Time Machine
3/23/2016 04:21:54 pm

>>Origins you admit no one can define

Origins as in the information about the people who created Christianity is lost to us. If, as is most probable, Christianity originated from Judaism without a game-plan, and Jesus Christ represented the collective consciousness of Apocalyptic desperadoes against Roman occupation, then the information would not have been important to begin with; and it also explains why the letters of Paul were preserved by later Christians following the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD because they simply had no other early literature --- including the Gospels. Another argument as to why the Gospels did not exist in the first century,#

Since the eucharist and some form of celebration of the mass existed during the first century, symbolising a death and resurrection ritual that was based upon experience rather than upon a biography, it could be argued that the eucharist preceded the Gospels, and that the biography was based upon the ritual, When the biography (the Gospels) became established the eucharist LATER became the remembrance of the biography.

Only Me
3/23/2016 06:18:26 pm

Any date for the Gospels is guesswork because the originals have been lost. There is no definitive date, so stop pretending there is.

"Origins as in the information about the people who created Christianity is lost to us."

Still not providing a basis for comparison.

"Apocalyptic desperados"

Strange how you said before they were desperate and pathetic. Now they're desperados.

"the letters of Paul were preserved by later Christians following the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD because they simply had no other early literature --- including the Gospels. Another argument as to why the Gospels did not exist in the first century"

And yet no Gospel is written as if the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE had already come to pass.

Nothing is as simple as you think. Since we're just going in circles, I'm done for now.


Time Machine
3/23/2016 08:24:19 pm

>>>Still not providing a basis for comparison

Comparison with what ???
Historical context answers everything and the story of a God-Man performing miracles who was surrounded by thousands of people uncorroborated by first century Christianity smacks of religious fantasy and it's pathetic that generations of people are stupid enough to believe in such obvious nonsense that adds up to hoaxery.

It was highly convenient to dream up these Gospels during the second century when there was nobody left to dispute what was claimed in them --- hence the reason why "nobody disputed the historical existence of Jesus" --- because the "historical existence" was not there during the first century.

The "resurrection" was the liberation from the Roman occupation and cognate with the atonement --- the reconciliation between God and Man --- making way for the New Jerusalem following the ousting of the Roman Empire from Palestine.,

It just didn't happen --- the Romans vanquished and destroyed the Jewish Nation and the Yahweh did not come down from Heaven to intercede in Divine Intervention.

So the myth of the Second Coming was invented,

Time Machine
3/23/2016 08:35:54 pm

Talking of comparisons there's always the eucharist that can be compared with the Jewish Passover meal, both of which use unleavened bread. There's a straightforward comparison, And the story of Jesus was based upon the story of Moses, another miracle worker (check the Bible). And there's reference in one Christian text that the Incarnation of Christ took place in the Ark of the Covenant -- the Ark of the Covenant that contained manna -- bread from Heaven.

Kal
3/22/2016 04:28:56 pm

Okay, Virginia is named for the Virgin Queen, not the Virgin Mary. Elizabeth I wasn't really a virgin, but they treated her as such.

Maryland is named for another queen, not Mary either.

I suppose then Wolter thinks that Disneyland is named for the all mighty Walt Disney because he represents some sort of secret sect, which would make a far more interesting and funny story. It's been done though. The Mickey Mouse cult joke is old.

As for the Washington Monument representing a big dildo, phallus, or whatnot, that has to be the oddest and most juvenile thing for the podcasters to come up with, as every 5th grader boy tourist probably thought that.

Are all towers therefore representatives of male anatomy? Are earth mounds thus perhaps female breasts, and pits on Oak Island representing other obvious lady parts? That sacred feminine stuff makes them sound like they're really reaching and overcompensating.

When will SW sell viagra? It's only a matter of time.

We've all been over falsely thinking modern names mean the same as ancient names, so Virginia meaning anything else other than what it is, being somehow a sacred name, is silly.

Mayans and lake people, for instance..

And there were four Marys in the Bible.

The Freemasons should consider disavowing Wolter before he continues to make them look like fools. Not that I buy he's actually in the Masons after going on about all of that. He was probably just visiting one day and got an honorary tour.

I've been to a masonic center and a masonic temple, as it used to hold conventions, but that doesn't make me a Mason. He doesn't know this.





Reply
Clete
3/22/2016 05:46:03 pm

What Scott Wolter knows would probably not even fill a teacup. What he doesn't know would probably fill several football stadiums.

Reply
Shane Sullivan
3/22/2016 05:53:59 pm

Remember the Library of Babel, from the short story of the same name, by Jorge Luis Borges?

That's how I envision what Scott Wolter doesn't know.

Reid
3/22/2016 08:21:51 pm

I think that we should congratulate Scott. By becoming a mason he has finally gotten the masters degree he so desperately needs to validate himself.

MartyR
3/27/2016 08:05:15 pm

Then he's ripe for a Republican presidential nomination.

Marquis de Monte Cristo
3/23/2016 12:40:59 am

I would only like to point out that it is not just 5th grade BOYS that make penis jokes about the Washington phallus... er... Monument. Boys and girls of all ages make jokes about the rather obvious correlation of shapes.

Reply
DaveR
3/23/2016 08:59:34 am

The dome on the Capitol is obviously a gigantic booby so that all Americans may suckle at mother government's giant teet.

V
3/23/2016 03:49:11 pm

I disagree, sir. I think that it is not a factual statement to say "Elizabeth I was not a virgin." We do not have any evidence for or against her virginity. We only know that she never married and never had a child.

However, there's a higher likelihood of her being a virgin than average. We're talking about a REIGNING MONARCH, and before that, a princess of the blood. Privacy was not a thing she had, ever. We would most likely have SOME evidence of it if an affair had happened.

I'm not particularly invested in Elizabeth I's virginity or lack thereof, but I am invested in accuracy, and it is not accurate to state "she wasn't," as if that were known fact, when in truth it is just as speculative as her virginity.

Reply
Time Machine
3/23/2016 08:41:29 pm

>>>I'm not particularly invested in Elizabeth I's virginity or lack thereof

Neither am I -- but I know she was no damned virgin just because she never married,

Time Machine
3/23/2016 08:43:30 pm

>>>I'm not particularly invested in Elizabeth I's virginity or lack thereof

Do you want some damned certificate proving Elizabeth I never engaged in conjugal activity ?

flip
3/24/2016 04:03:04 am

One thing that gets me with all these Christian conspiracies: why would they be necessary in the first place? Hidden messages are great and all but it's not like Christian evangelists have ever been subtle. Conversion occurred not because of secret codes and symbolism but by actual overt preaching. Is there really any reason to think any faction would need a conspiracy with clues left lying around in the hopes a few people would notice them?

Reply
Only Me
3/24/2016 11:11:37 am

That's the allure of conspiracy theories. What we "don't know" must surely be more terrifying and exciting than what we do know.

Amazing, isn't it, that all conspiracy theories require an outsider to discover them, rather than the more likely chance a whistleblower would pull back the veil?

Reply
Time Machine
3/24/2016 11:19:57 am

And the New Testament is another conspiracy theory.

Only Me
3/24/2016 11:23:55 am

Still bothered by what you don't know, eh?

DaveR
3/24/2016 01:04:21 pm

I think that's also some of the allure with the whole Ancient Aliens thing. Some people would much rather believe we're all children of aliens than just a series of random mutations over the course of a few million years. It's far more strange and wonderful to consider the pyramids were built by aliens than the Egyptians.

Time Machine
3/24/2016 09:17:14 pm

Only Me.

The Gospels date from the first century not because of historical evidence --- but because of consensus of opinion (translated, wishful thinking).

I could write about John Riley who lived in 1653 today in 2016, that does not mean the "information" dates from 1653.

Only Me
3/24/2016 11:16:21 pm

Someone could also write about John Riley IN 1653. That doesn't mean the information dates later.

flip
3/25/2016 02:15:47 am

Agreed. It's clear that conspiracy theories are just a special snowflake argument, a way for people to feel like they matter in a complex world where they can affect little to no actual change and have little import on the world at large.

Time Machine
3/25/2016 01:21:30 pm

The New Testament isn't a conspiracy theory? Gee, let's start gathering proof to verify what's contained in it.

LOL


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          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Scrapbook
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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