Alternative History and the Search for Awe and Wonder

9/14/2013

Remember that (still ongoing) discussion about why it was wrong for Scott Wolter to claim an honorary master’s degree? Well, this morning I received an email from a clinical psychologist who told me that “with a BA in Fine Arts, your opinions on Scott Wolter have marginal weight […] your posting of scientific opinions and judgments is […] inappropriate.” I informed the psychologist that my BA is in archaeology, just like Wolter holds a BS in geology, and if it’s inappropriate for me to render judgment, then so too must it be wrong for Wolter. As you might gather, the assumption of legitimacy through appearances in the media and claimed credentials turns into a cudgel to stifle opposition—which is frankly amazing to hear from a supporter of Scott Wolter given Wolter’s own repeated claim that any interested amateur should be given equal standing in rewriting history.

But that wasn’t the worst part of the morning: I also learned that shortly before his death last year the late Philip Coppens was planning a children’s show to “educate” children on ancient mysteries and extraterrestrials!

I discovered this on the Intrepid Magazine blog where it was discussed in the context of a three-decade-old French children’s cartoon that explored ancient astronaut themes. Called Once Upon a Time… Space, the show featured planets where ancient Earth astronauts mated with and fathered alien races, where Greek gods were actually aliens, and where ancient astronauts, Atlantis, and psychic powers sit uneasily together. The Intrepid blogger credited this show with inspiring his love of ancient history, and he took to task skeptics who express outrage at the bizarre ideas of Ancient Aliens:

…as an adult I can appreciate how this old French cartoon & its predecessor infused in me a fascination with ancient history at an early age, by teaching me to apply a long-view perspective to cultural events; all this while expanding my horizons with the promise of what the future had in store for us, if only we entertained the notion of “What if…”

I find that a false notion. Are we seriously to believe that ancient history can only be fascinating when it is cloaked in lies? When I was eight, I developed an interest in ancient history and world cultures because of Count Duckula, which sent its hero to the pyramids of Egypt, lost cities in African jungles, medieval castles, etc.—but Count Duckula didn’t ask us to believe in the Loch Ness monster or risen mummies or Tarzan; they were presented as literary and mythical situations—a fantasy.

It’s the same argument I’ve heard over and again: There is no harm in alternative history so long as it “inspires” people to learn more. But this is the lazy person’s way out. It suggests that there is no way to make history interesting on its own, that awe and wonder come from the supernatural and not the real. Yet children (and let’s be frank here—we’re talking about boys, since no one ever thinks about girls’ interest in aliens) love pirates and castles and cowboys and dinosaurs without the need to spice them up with aliens or psychic powers. The argument from boredom is the cynical soul of world-weary adults projecting onto children their own longing for a touch of the divine in a world of taxes, work, obligation, and struggle.

Which brings us to Joe Rogan, whose Syfy show I thought was poorly assembled and somewhat boring, but who has something useful to say about alternative history. He spoke in an interview with i09 back in July but which I only found out about today:

You see, they’re not just looking to find out if UFOs are real. What they’re looking for is something magical and something mysterious that hasn’t been discovered yet. They’re looking for some excitement in their boring lives. One of the ways that I describe these people — and it’s really quite unfortunate — is that they’re a bunch of unfuckable white dudes. I haven’t found a single black guy looking for Bigfoot. I’ve look[ed] high and large, and it’s all white dudes in their late forties and fifties. It’s all midlife crisis people. They’re not the happiest people in the world — and no disrespect — but they’re looking for things to be real that aren’t necessarily real.

This exaggerates somewhat, of course, and perhaps more applicable to UFO and Bigfoot hunters than alternative historians. Giorgio Tsoukalos is only three years older than I am (and I’m 32), and both Scott Wolter and Philip Coppens have wives. I think the age issue has more to do with these beliefs attracting a greater number of people from groups that have the free time to march out in the woods spending their days looking for mysteries, and that tends to fall into three categories: college students, the marginally employed or unemployed, and retirees. Not surprisingly, these are also the key audiences for alternative speculation. Joe Rogan notes as much when he mentions the “despair they have in their communities” as one reason the economically disadvantaged embrace anti-elite conspiracy theories:

The more you talk to people about UFOs or Bigfoot or psychic phenomenon, the more you start to realize that the same sort of thinking exists almost across the board. And it almost stops being about the subject — it’s more about the idea of mystery than anything else — this recurring theme of someone trying to figure something out, and trying to find something that makes their otherwise mundane life more interesting.

Rogan espoused a number of conspiracy theories, including the idea that the moon landing was a hoax, before his “investigations” into the details of the paranormal claims led him to discover how much of paranormal advocacy is actually the working out of social and cultural anxieties. This is one reason that Ancient Aliens for Kids is such a terrible idea, and another reason to gawk in wonder at the unresolved contradiction in the alternative community whereby academic opinion and academic elites are ridiculed and accused of all manner of horrors but academic honors and scientific authority are so desirable that people like convicted scammer and ancient alien theorist Sean David Morton take on unaccredited “Ph.D.-equivalency” degrees and John Ward claims a “full honorary Ph. Doctorate” in archaeology awarded by a Knights Templar fan club.

58 Comments

Gunn

9/14/2013 05:35:07 am

"...it’s more about the idea of mystery than anything else — this recurring theme of someone trying to figure something out, and trying to find something that makes their otherwise mundane life more interesting."

This is an interesting blog subject, as it involves the psychology of trying to figure something out, of historical importance. We tend to play in our backyards.

Without going into the details, I have a wonderful backyard to play in here. I've been pegged correctly. I'm an old white dude, semi-retired, who's trying to squeeze a bit of excitement out of life. I enjoy hiking about, especially where something unusual may be found. I look. I pause and wonder.

Yes, they passed through here. Did they leave some evidence for Opher? No. Sorry Opher. You can see the stoneholes, but not the hammer and chisel. The excrement and what the men ate are gone, as if slowly dissolved by poop-snatching aliens.

Bottom Line: We don't need no stinkin' degrees to look around, nor to speculate. The burden of proof falls to the poor skeptics, the academics. Truth is their responsibility, and they deserve this burden.

The rest of us are free to post conjectures at every turn. I can begin or stop, at my own will, at any time. Jason is the free-speech Headmaster here, trying to remain serious and diligent. For such a young whippersnapper, he's doing a fairly good job.

For instance, indoctrinating our children with alien nonsense is foul, and he has pointed this out. Exposing the nonsense of a so-called Jesus bloodline was beneficial, yet it will always be a sore spot...rightfully so. The good comes with the bad.

Have a little faith in the non-academics when they seek to do no harm. You are busy looking for the harm, and that is good.

Only Me

9/14/2013 07:06:02 am

"The burden of proof falls to the poor skeptics, the academics." Naturally, when they fulfill this requirement, they receive ballyhoo such as this:

"It is very presumptuous for someone here to say "the facts" declare the Newport Tower to be a colonial windmill. This person might make a good State Museum Director. "
"Government officials cannot be trusted because they have an agenda."
"Oh yeah, we can always trust the official story...Until the official story is occasionally changed."
"Collectively, these kinds of impediments have an intended impact, I believe, which is to thwart alternative history speculation."

"And why should we trust automatically the judgments of people with credentials?"

"The experts aren't always honorable, especially when they have an agenda...which is to support the "official view"."

"SO DEAL WITH IT ALL OF "YOU KNOW IT ALL" SKEPTICS"
"YOUR OPINIONS REALLY DON'T MEAN CRAP WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT DO THEY? THIS IS NOT A RELIGIOUS DEBATE OR SOME IMMATURE CONTEST OF WHO HAS THE MOST SCIENTIFIC CREDENTIALS TO BE CONSIDERED SMART ENOUGH TO HAVE THEIR FINDINGS CONSIDERED VALID."
"I see proof in what he is doing and bringing to our attention if you can do better then please do so until then SHUT UP!!!"
" as for talking shit about ..... I discredit anything you would say about him as I have read mass on him and did not hear of you till a google search so thanx to you google you get a kudos :)"

Of course, there are a lot more, spread throughout this site. So please, Gunn, spare us the hypocrisy.

9/14/2013 11:12:15 am

Some of the quotes sound familiar and of very good substance, while others are quite distracting.

There is no hypocrisy. You don't know how to read and interpret things, kind of like Opher. Hey, are you Opher using another email? You sound vaguely familiar, with a sort of bulldog, demonic edge. You have been promoted to a Blog Crime, Only Me, a step above the usual Blog Rat. What makes you so venomous? So far in my experience here, you are a head above the rest in your need to attack.

Steve, I think your child needs another lesson in Cyber-bullying. Make him aware of another type of Blog Rat...the Blog Crime Rat. Introduce him to the stench of Only Me, an imposter of what...goodwill? Only Me, what? Innocent, tender, of no consequence? I say, more like a fart that drifts in to offend. Nothing of substance, only the odor of foulness. Phew!

Who died and made you the Sheriff of Jason's Nottingham Blog Forest? I bet you are less than 5' tall, unless stretched out on a medieval rack. Punk.

9/14/2013 12:51:33 pm

At last, Gunn, you finally figured it out. I have, indeed, hounded and attacked you....just to prove a point. You needed a taste of your own vile medicine. Your words and attitude, of late, reek of the cyber-bully, stained with hypocrisy. Most of those quotes should sound familiar, as they were your own; there's no need to interpret any of them, as given the context in which their found, your intent is clear.

Why am I so venomous? Simple. I can't tolerate a self-righteous hypocrite, who praises someone in one breath, only to condemn them in the next. Someone who freely casts accusations and aspersions to all that do not agree with his narrow world view. Someone guilty of constant thread jacking. Someone who is quick to label. Someone who demands proof, yet when it is presented, falls back to the worn out tactic of the personal attack.

As I've said before, call me what you will. I'm not going anywhere, and I wear your labels as badges of honor. I don't fear you in the least, and I'll call you out on your BS anytime, anywhere. Christopher may have left out of disgust, and I hope he does come back, but I won't. Get used to it.

And you are a hypocrite. You so easily, on more than one occasion, dismiss the AA folks. However, they are JUST LIKE YOU; they believe in something, in spite of the fact that belief is founded on shoddy, questionable evidence and myth. They have aliens; you have the KRS. According to you, their belief is crap and foul nonsense. But, when similar opinions are expressed about your precious stone, you quickly don the mantle of the martyr...and it is an awkward fit.

So there it is in a nutshell, Gunn. Have at me with all you got; I welcome it.

Gunn Sinclair

9/15/2013 03:21:28 am

Well, anyone is welcome to read back through the blogs and see that you have attributed quotes to me, falsely, then based a charge of hypocrisy on your lack of ability to correctly follow communications.

The bottom line is that you are wrong, and that you are a prick. I will "kick against the pricks." Though I'm warned not to, I will anyway, just to make this point: any time I've come to this blog, I've tried to add something, even if a tidbit. I have never attacked anyone just for sport. I've always responded to the rudeness of others, because I believe it is okay to defend oneself on a blog, especially when some come just to cause trouble, without really intending to add anything. You are a proverbial prick, Only Me. Look it up, Punk. You've revealed to others here just what a Blog Crime Rat you are. You must really hate life and people to feel the need to go on the attack against someone like me. That, or you're demon-possessed.

I've never seen a demon-possessed, Punk Blog Crime Rat before. What makes you so hateful, and why did you attribute all those quotes to me when they aren't all from me? This appears devilish. You'd better check yourself out, dude. Obviously, you can't follow dialogue, and obviously, you reek of the devil. Yeah, you read it here first. Back up, Evil!

Isaac

9/15/2013 04:08:38 am

Oh, Gunn, if it weren't for you I don't know how I would fill my daily quota of heavy sighing and head shaking.

You know, if / when convincing evidence in its favor is found, all the evil academics and "blog rats" and skeptics would accept the KRS. That is how science works, that is the beautiful thing about it. I've already told you what it would take to convince me personally of its legitimacy (archaeological evidence of a medieval Norse / Norman now I guess? settlement or camp, and at least one genuine historical document describing the land claim voyage), and your response was to get mad at me and refuse to talk about it any more. That seems to be a common theme in your responses to people expressing the healthy skepticism which should be the norm in situations such as this.

You, on the other hand, seem so entrenched in your belief that nothing could ever convince you it is a hoax short of the Lord God Jesus Christ himself descending from heaven and telling you it wasn't real, and even then I think there is a danger you would simply label him a "Holy Blog Rat" or something (please do not interpret that as an anti-Christian statement, I believe in God and find self-righteous atheists just as insufferable as I find you).

Do you really think you can occupy the moral high ground after going out of your way to insult everyone who doesn't agree with you, throwing that big tantrum and saying you were leaving this site forever, and telling Jason and all the regulars in the comments that they were all going to hell? You are an old man, but you go out of your way to act in an incredibly childish manner. I am very sorry that you didn't follow through on your threat to leave this site, and I only hope that the continuing animosity of everyone here towards you eventually drives you away for good.

9/15/2013 04:30:23 am

Isaac: I welcome you to butt-out and mind your own business. Get the board out of your own eye, dude.

9/15/2013 04:35:00 am

The pot calls the kettle black....

9/15/2013 04:42:33 am

Isaac, you, yourself, are the epitome of a hypocrite. I insult? Yes, I kick back against the pricks. I insult the hypocrites such as yourself and Only Me, who love to start problems here. Look back at the genesis and continuation of my communications and you'll find that I never give the first kick to the pricks. I respond to the pricks here, otherwise known as the Blog Rat Collective. I don't have to lay down and consume the crap pushed at me by religious hypocrites such as yourself, Isaac. You are an established attacker, not a mild-mannered Christian. Isaac, you are a hypocrite.

9/15/2013 08:42:01 am

I apologize, Gunn. When I composed my response to you, it was very late and I was tired. I should have worded it more clearly, so allow me to explain, for the benefit of all those visiting.

"The burden of proof falls to the poor skeptics, the academics" and "Naturally, when they fulfill this requirement, they receive ballyhoo such as this" are both generalizations. The quotes I provided were meant to be a SAMPLE of the responses given to the skeptics attempting to provide proof. I only went so far back in my search, otherwise, I would have been scanning for examples for hours. Trust me, there are some truly outrageous and vile responses aimed directly at Jason or his visitors.

Even you acknowledged "SOME of the quotes sound familiar", to which I replied " MOST of those quotes should sound familiar, as they were your own"(emphasis added). I did not intentionally mean to mislead anyone into believing ALL of them belonged to you; for that, again, I apologize.

It was not my intent to attribute false quotations to anyone, or paint myself as a liar. I WILL be more careful in the future, for I have no reason I can justify to myself, that excuses the use of deception to debate a position.

Take it or leave it, Gunn, I have sought to correct a misunderstanding.

9/15/2013 12:00:53 pm

No problem, Only Me. I'm sensitive about folks coming here to sow discord, expecting no repercussions; but I have an abnormal capacity for forgiveness, too.

9/15/2013 12:23:12 pm

No, Gunn, your capacity is not abnormal. It is both noble and Christian.

Thane

9/14/2013 11:34:40 am

>> The burden of proof falls to the poor skeptics, the academics. Truth is their responsibility, and they deserve this burden.<<

Sorry, but Truth is everyone's responsibility.

Truth, honest and respectful exchange of ideas, critical thinking, and openness to being proven wrong is essential to the development of knowledge and to "understanding" the past, the present, and to plan for the future.

Truth (i,e Fact) is not subjective. Facts are facts.

Outside of facts, you have theories and speculation and hypotheses. Only those hypotheses and theories that can be demonstrated to be true....replicable results, falsifiable, etc...according to the tried and true scientific method can be taken as proven. Others you can't prove have to survive probability assessments.

If we don't all accept responsibility for truth and all that it takes to prove it, then we will forever be lost slogging through the morass created and propitiated by those with a mental illness, venial need to prove some theory, and/or spew falsehoods and untruths just to make a buck.

I find it disturbing that anyone would believe that other people (and not themselves) have responsibility for Truth.

Call me an idealist.

9/15/2013 04:59:03 am

You are correct, Thane. We should all be looking for the truth in history. Yet, the responsibility falls to the professionals.

Big Mike

9/16/2013 04:47:31 pm

I'd just like to take a moment and point out one small thing and I hope I don't come off sounding rude.

You said, "Outside of facts, you have theories and speculation and hypotheses. Only those hypotheses and theories that can be demonstrated to be true....replicable results, falsifiable, etc...according to the tried and true scientific method can be taken as proven. Others you can't prove have to survive probability assessments."

There is a minor error in your statement that I feel must be corrected. When discussing science and the scientific method in any seriousness, the word "theory" should NEVER be used interchangeably with "speculation" or "hypothesis" as you did in your first and second sentences. In science, "truth" and "theory" are literally the same thing. Proper synonyms for "theory" are "principle" and "law"

Getting any idea to Theory standing is a great accomplishment as theories are based on facts, proven reliable and replicable experimentation, and verifiable evidence.

People who dismiss something as "only a theory" do not have a true concept of science nor the scientific method.

Now this is just a pet peeve of mine, so sorry again if that sounded rude. I know that there are dictionary definitions that place the word "theory" as a synonym for "hypothesis", but that is a common usage definition. If a philosopher were to discuss on of Plato's or Kant's "theories", I would actually be very accepting of that. Philosophy is a wonderful field of study that is NOT a science. However, I feel that we are going to use science and the scientific method for our yard-stick and shield we should endeavor to be as precise in our vocabulary as the scientific method demands we be in our pursuit of.. well, everything.

Bill

9/14/2013 12:33:11 pm

I have to side with only me on this one. Skeptics and Academics spend a lot of time proposing ideas, arguing details and discussing finer points in an effort to find the truth. Along the way a lot of ideas are disproved and dismissed. The skeptics and academics recognize when the evidence does not support their theories and either move on to new areas of research or work to supplement the existing body of knowledge.

The "alternative researchers" in fields as varied as history, medicine and UFOs, when confronted with evidence that their ideas are wrong don't accept that they could be in error. Instead they resort to claims of academic and government conspiracies, rely on an uniformed public that won't do any independent research to support their theories, and limit the presentation of their ideas to forums where they don't have to worry about negative feedback.

I had a long exchange on another forum with an individual that is convinced that all facts are just opinions and therefore all facts are subjective and all opinions are equally valid. When the fallacy of this approach was pointed out (step out a third floor window and tell me gravity is an opinion) it was first pointed out that my engineering background kept me from being open minded. When I persisted in pointing out the difference between objective fact and subjective opinion I was accused of being a government operative spreading disinformation.

For the most part alternative theorist and their supporters don't seem to be interested in the truth. They just want their efforts to be validated and acknowledgement that despite the preponderance of evidence against them, they are the ones that see the real truth.

In short, they want to feel special.

Dave Lewis

9/16/2013 11:19:53 am

"In short, they want to feel special."

Don't forget "and want to make money from the gullible."

Dave Lewis

Al West link

9/14/2013 06:19:44 am

"I also learned that shortly before his death last year the late Philip Coppens was planning a children’s show to “educate” children on ancient mysteries and extraterrestrials!"

I seem to remember an ancient-alien-themed episode of Johnny Quest set in Rapa Nui, and that's stuck in my mind after all these years.

And here I was thinking that Coppens was one of the least obnoxious AA pushers.

9/14/2013 07:26:59 am

Oops, *Jonny Quest. "Secret of the Moai" was the name of the episode. Must have helped to sow the seed of ancient astronaut theories in at least some young viewers' minds.

9/14/2013 11:38:44 am

I loved Johnny Quest...no strike that, I loved Race Bannon..... which probably explains why I adore Brock Sampson now.

I don't recall that episode, I'll have to see if I can find it on the internet.

Shane Sullivan

9/14/2013 01:27:28 pm

Oh yeah, I remember that- perfect spheres, monkey-men, sound waves...although that's all I remembered until I googled it just now. Infact, I thought I remembered it taking place in South America (sans the Moai, of course).

Thane, which version of Race did you like better: the first-season version with the folksy accent, or the more classic second-season version?

9/14/2013 02:21:19 pm

@Shane

I don't know. To be honest, i haven't seen any episodes since my youth and while I know Race changed from season 1 to season 2 but the details, I don't recall.

I liked Race because he's a man of action and very, very good at what he does.

I remember being heart broken when they reviled that he had been married and has a daughter! The fact that he divorced her didn't ease the pain of his betrayal! (heehee)

The Other J.

9/14/2013 07:46:42 am

I thought there already was a n English-language children's TV show about ancient mysteries and extraterrestrials. It was called Land of the Lost. It even had reptilians and pyramids (okay pylons).

I'm actually happy to see Rogan's evolution on this subject. For the longest time, I'd written him off as an uncritical promoter of oddball ideas who was dangerous because he didn't seem to do much questioning or due diligence beyond speculation, but had enough celebrity status to give that speculation street cred. Plus he's a good speaker, and good in a debate; he was on Penn Jilette's podcast twice to debate the moon landing hoax with Phil Plait, and actual astronomer. He snowed Plait, and it was frustrating to listen to because you could look up counter-arguments Plait had made in the past to the points Rogan raised, but Rogan was so forceful and fast in making the points that Plait just froze. Rogan has since stepped away from that position -- admitted he was wrong -- and has shown some interesting growth.

But Rogan isn't the only one who was dangerous in his promotion of kook fringe theories. Rogan may have appealed to the college kids and marginally employed mma fans, but the elderly get targeted with conspiracy literature. I know this because a few of my own elderly family members ended up on some list and were sent free books that got into all kinds of conspiracy-mongering; Jesus bloodline stuff, 9/11 truther stuff, Obama's a Kenyan communist sleeper agent stuff, etc. Not well-produced books, really easily-made disposable things. One of the reasons I first got interested in the counter-arguments is because my dad got worried about the stuff showing up at his dad and uncle's place, and he asked me what I made of it all.

And that kind of thing isn't localized. My relatives received those books in Omaha. I live on the east coast. And a few years ago, on a Sunday, everyone in my apartment building received a book drop at their doors full of scary government apocalypse conspiracy mongering -- the same kind of thing my grandparents and great-uncle received. No one knew where the books came from. The next day, my wife didn't lock the front door when she left because I was home that morning, and someone tried to break into our place. The stranger slowly opened my front door, and my beagles chased the dude out to the road. Turned out they were checking for unlocked front doors when they dropped the books off, and would then come back the next day to those places an steal TV's, computers, etc. The next neighborhood over had already been hit -- book drop, theft.

In a way, those two events (my family and my apartment) summed up something big about that conspiracy movement: It preys on -- or at least counts on -- the trusting, unsuspecting, and those unequipped to guard themselves. A good skeptical toolbox can be as important as a dead bolt.

Jonathan

9/14/2013 11:35:54 am

I watched Star Trek: Into Darkness last night and I enjoyed the opening sequence very much. The crew of the Enterprise were on a planet called Nibiru and they were trying to save a primitive humanoid species from an erupting volcano without revealing their presence. Well, they were not able to conceal themselves and the primitive inhabitants of Nibiru saw the Enterprise and drew a pictogram of the space ship and it was implied that the ship and/or its cew would be worshiped as gods. I thought that was a nice twist on the "theory" that primitive humans were visited by inhabitants of Nibiru. I laughed out loud, in fact.

Jason Colavito link

9/14/2013 11:43:54 am

What a coincidence: I watched it last night, too. The scene, though, echoes the opening of Chariots of the Gods, where von Daniken asks us to imagine just such a scenario!

As for the movie, though, I felt a bit ripped off spending more than 2 hours watching apparently the world's longest 9/11-War on Terror allegory.

9/14/2013 01:02:01 pm

Is that what that movie is about? Maybe I won't watch it, then. The seriousness with which Ancient Astronaut cultists--er, I mean, theorists--take their hypothesis already soured my experience with the film Prometheus. Well, that, and the whole "we'll communicate with the aliens by synthesizing a perfect reconstruction of the pan-human proto-language, which we will do by letting our robot watch tutorial videos" thing.

Hey, while we're at this rare confluence of Ancient Astronauts, cartoons, and the word "Prometheus," does anyone remember that stop-motion short Prometheus and Bob?

9/14/2013 01:08:46 pm

The Nibiru scene is only a few minutes at the beginning. The rest of the movie I read as a meditation on Bush-era War on Terror tactics, culminating (I hope I don't give anything too serious away) with a reenactment of 9/11 in which a terrorist hijacks a spaceship and flies it into skyscrapers.

9/14/2013 01:32:14 pm

Oh, I see now, Jonathan even called it "the opening sequence." Sorry, I misunderstood.

Kaoteek

9/14/2013 04:16:08 pm

Then again, judging by the comments online, that whole 9/11 subtext somehow seems to have gone over the head of a lot of fans, who are still fuming against the movie for being an empty action movie without any sense, purpose or message, and for a certain reveal that seems to haved "raped their childhoods".

(also, I wasn't really surprised to get such themes in STID, given the fact that Bob Orci, one of the main writers, is a conspiracy nut/Truther/Boston was a false flag op/infowars/prisonplanet kind of guy)

Paul Cargile

9/16/2013 03:37:56 am

Saw it in the theatre and thought it a waste of time; the first JJ Trek was better. This one borrowed heavily from Wrath of Khan and ignored gravitational physics.

Graham

9/14/2013 06:55:04 pm

It would not have just been old French cartoons pushing Ancient Astronauts, the last completed Tintin story "Flight 714" has Ancient Astronauts, Contactees & a UFO at the end to whisk the heros to safety and take the villains to an unknown fate.

9/15/2013 05:13:28 am

Hey, "Flight 714" was one of the source influences for "Lost."

9/15/2013 08:19:47 am

Is that so? Fascinating. I saw the cartoon version of it on DVD recently, and I suppose it's easy to see parallels between Flight 714 and a number of pop culture phenomena. Hard to believe David Icke and Herge could have so much in common.

9/15/2013 08:40:20 am

Maybe 'inspiration' would be a better term. In both, you have a plane heading to Australia that gets brought down on some mysterious tropical island; there are secret tunnels and hidden bunkers on the island; sci-fi and surreal aspects; a temple on the island; and the flight number two number sets off from the Lost flight number, 7 (8) 14 (15).

But there are probably well over a hundred inspirations for that show.

9/15/2013 01:30:48 pm

Interesting, though I still cannot bring myself to watch "Lost." Fortean Times did an article on all the occult references in Herge, though I cannot remember the issue.

phillip

9/16/2013 02:25:12 pm

"The burden of proof falls to the poor skeptics, the academics. Truth is their responsibility, and they deserve this burden."

It absolutely does NOT. How is the truth, the skeptics responsibility?
If someone were to ask me whether or not I believe aliens created humans, and I were to say no, then why exactly do I have to prove it?
...and talk of hypocrisy? The recurring theme among alternative/alien history theorists is that academics and archaeologists will not consider amateur speculative theories that usually need a vivid imagination and faith to get the point across. Yet alternative theorists will not even consider tangible evidence on the subject. They still demand proof, according to several views expressed on this blog, they dont have a responsibility to prove anything they say. Funny how they have no problem with vicious personal attacks and name calling over their beliefs that for some reason are my responsibility to disprove. Thats just lazy.

Also mentioned here was the idea that alternative theorists are generally in the same class of government conspiracy and political disinformation types. The following example is only a small example and in no way am I saying that this a blanket statement about these types of people. In my office are six people, four of which are AA and Scott Wolter fans. These four also believe our government was behind 9/11. They also believe that Obama has squads preparing to go door to door and take our guns. Of course when we are free of guns, he will force us as a country to convert to Islam. These ideas come from the same A.M. radio stations that promote all kinds of alternative/conspiracy nonsense.
So back to the opening quote, why cant we simply disagree with the example given? Why is it my "deserved burden" to prove this crazy talk wrong. This is basically what you sound like, listen up...

My choices are to believe your crazy theories unless I can magically prove a negative. If not you will call me names and question my intellect. Is that about right? OK, then Im up for the challenge, please let me know what you will accept as proof that I do not believe your version of alternative history and that it is an incorrect belief? Be specific, I need to know exactly what proof would change your mind from what you firmly believe now? Or you can be honest and say no amount of proof will ever change your mind because this is what you believe, period. In that case you would be skeptical of my proof which would make the burden of proof on you.

Let me know what proof you need, Im anxious to get started.

9/16/2013 05:23:22 pm

Well, I believe elements of the Gov't knew 911 was going to happen and let it occur. Coincidentally, I believe elements of the Gov't knew Kennedy was going to get whacked, too, and let it happen. Of course, this is a far cry from believing the Gov't did it...or is it?

The problem, my good man, is that the KRS has not been scientifically proven to be authentic or not. New studies are bringing new information, albeit slowly. The stone in some regards appears like it could be a 19th Century carving, yet there are other specifics that tie it in to the mid-Fourteen Century. Actually, the verdict isn't in.

You may have detected that I believe in its authenticity, but my reasons extend to other peculiarities from the region...stoneholes, for example. People have been trying to explain them away, but they cannot.

For your own satisfaction, I will say here publicly that I believe it is possible that the runestone is a fake, but of course I believe much more that it is real...in my mind, maybe 95%. It is not a faith issue with me, it is a logic issue.

Obviously, way above, I was saying that professionals are not free to publicly speculate, while we others can. That is part of their burden. I'm saying they have a burden that others do not. I already clarified that seeking truth in history is everybody's responsibility. I am not bitter about this...I just saw, myself, firsthand how museums and the professionals who run them like to hide things from the public. I'm allowed some skepticism, myself.

Right, there are no negatives to prove.

9/17/2013 07:11:10 am

If you haven't seen it yet, check out my post under the blog about the French Normans and the KRS. You might find it interesting.

9/17/2013 02:38:41 am

I agree that if a group of academics says a thing is true, they should provide proof, I also think academics would agree with that statement as well.
I think if Scott Wolter wants to have a TV show that throws far out alternative history and pass it off as fact, then he should provide proof, not fearless speculation. Folklore is not documentation.

So we do agree, If I have a theory that is too left of the mainstream to be taken seriously, it, in fact is not the mainstreams burden to prove me wrong. It is in their best interest to go on about their business until I bring proof of my theory to them.

I really miss the days when History International actually showed historical programming. Ancient Aliens has gotten so bad that when they recycle subjects, they end up contradicting themselves from past episodes. They are out of ideas, but not out of ad dollars. Selling viagra is a more lucrative concept than a fact based show on a channel called History. ...sad...

9/17/2013 04:17:30 am

Yes, we agree.

I would hope that at least more folks are becoming interested in history as a result of alternative history programs. Some people are swayed by "unacceptable" programming, but I think the majority of the mature audience sees that no conclusive outcomes are reached most of the time.

For example, I see Wolter's program as history speculation, not an attempt to falsify history on purpose. He is free to speculate about a Jesus bloodline, even, yet to me the idea is outdated...plus, he will face any public or spiritual consequences, so "karma" will be served in one way or another.

Is he doing more harm than good? Again, it's all about perspective. I believe there is a scales weighing this all out, but it isn't being weighed by a blindfolded lady; there is bias to consider.

Rev. Phil Gotsch

9/17/2013 02:28:01 pm

LOL ...

I find it fascinating that Jason Colavito makes his LIVING by hosting blogs like this one ...

Huh ...

9/17/2013 05:12:14 pm

I take it you've missed all the times he's mentioned having a job that allows him to have this blog...at no profit?

9/17/2013 11:27:52 pm

Only Me is quite correct; this is just a hobby. I have an actual job. It's why there is no advertising here.

9/20/2013 04:10:43 pm

Seems like a REALLY expensive hobby ... writing and giving away all those "books" ...

Huh ...

9/20/2013 11:34:20 pm

The books are for sale, and the money goes to subsidize the website and putting together additional books.

I am constantly amazed that a pastor has trouble understanding why someone would do something for reasons of faith, hope, or charity. May I ask, how much do you get paid as a registered lobbyist for Friends of Minnesota Geology? Or do you lobby the legislature on a topic unrelated to your church position just for fun? Methinks you are not as Olympian in your criticism as you pretend.

http://www.cfboard.state.mn.us/lobby/adetail/a3812.html

9/22/2013 01:30:42 pm

So ...
The economics of your "debunking" hobby comes out as a "wash" ...

9/22/2013 01:36:24 pm

I wasn't aware that hobbies were required to turn a profit. Is that something you got from your lobbying work or from your church work? Ah, I remember the passage well: "Speak the truth to one another; render in your gates judgments that are true... as long as they make money."

william m smith

9/19/2013 02:29:58 pm

As a retired engineer, I have studied the Mystery Stone of New Hampshire and feel its identity has been solved. The key to its solution may be in Bermuda’s local history society museum where a lodestone from Sir Admiral Sommers compass is on display. The Sommers stone dates to the early 1500s as a navigational tool component and was used by the Admiral to save the people of Jamestown. The Mystery Stone of New Hampshire is a key in understanding the early explorations in the new world. The stone is made from material that is unique to the platonic fault line in France and Portugal and identified to be from this area by the size of the small white crystal’s in the stone created by the underground pressures between the fault lines. The hole of two sizes through the stone are by design and were not cut with modern day tools which tends to de-credit early machining technology. This two size hole was needed in order to (load) magnetite into the hole in the same manner you would use a ram rod for loading powder into a gun. This magnetite packed into the stone would make a magnet that when held under a metal needle functioned as a compass. The stone was held below the base plate of the lodestone compass assembly with copper straps which are not magnetic. The base plate of brass held a brass cup with animal fat to float the metal needle. The base plate also had two vertical rods that worked as a sun dial to read the time for the mid day sun. The completed assembly would allow the user to read true north at mid day as well as magnetic north. The difference between the two readings is called magnetic declination and a measurement of longitude when traveling east and west. (Note: A lodestone compass was found in a cave in N.Y. minus the lodestone). This tool was used by the cartographer when mapping the new world. The carvings on this stone are the main points of interest the author wanted to express of his expedition. The TP and Round house represent the plains Indians and the Mandan Indians which lived side by side in Western Minn. The corn, bison leg, bird, fish represent the native foods available in Minn. The three other symbols represent methods of time and location, the two pointers represent magnetic declination, the moon represents lunar navigation and the serpent represents lunar months. The star’s at the top and bottom represent the cardinal rose. Addition information and photos that add support to the identity of this Mystery stone are available on request. Including a working replica of the lodestone compass and land markings indicating this early voyage and magnetic declination can be viewed at (Migration and Diffusion) web site posted in my name. This tool pre-dates the magnetic compass used by Christopher Columbus.
Their is sound evidence that this tool was used to place the builders mark at the top of the Newport Tower in R.I. as well as locate the Kensington Rune stone in Minn.

9/21/2013 04:35:36 am

william m smith says: "There is sound evidence that this tool was used to place the builders mark at the top of the Newport Tower in R.I. as well as to locate the Kensington Rune stone in Minn."

Hello. I am quite interested in the device you elaborated on, and I recall reading about it in detail several months ago.

You may have read here a reference I made once or twice about a strange geographical line I discovered several months ago, which connects the Duluth area (far western Lake Superior), THROUGH the Kensington, MN area to the exact Whetstone River area of SD, which I theorize was a major landing area of Scandinavians (Swedes) back during medieval times: A straight line from where the ship mentioned on the KRS was anchored, and to BOTH of the two main stonehole/carvings spots in this region...in Kensington, MN and along the Whetstone River, in SD. Does this indicate the use of a compass? Probably, perhaps with the use of an astrolabe and using the night sky, etc. It is my own personal belief that the expeditions came to this obscure area because the region represents the middle of North America, a beginning spot to build outward from.

(Incidentally, again, the Mandans were located in nearby ND during the American Colonial period and forward, that we know of...before then, who knows?)

9/21/2013 11:41:35 am

The Mandan may have originated in the upper- to mid-Mississippi River region, before migrating to the Missouri River Valley and, eventually, the Heart River in N. Dakota. That's where Europeans made first-contact with them.

Linguistically, it's been suggested that their language is closely related to the Ho-Chunk or Winnebago people of Wisconsin. Their oral history refers to them coming from an eastern location near a lake. Of course, these are the prevailing theories, as their true origins remain unknown.

9/21/2013 11:21:58 am

My question would be, how big of a compass are we talking about? This *mystery stone* is four inches long and two and a half inches thick. It's roughly the size of an egg, so how big would the compass holding it have been? Were compasses of the time really the size of, say, an alarm clock with the bells and ringer on top?

Gunn link

9/24/2013 07:20:02 am

http://www.hallmarkemporium.com/discoveries/id27.html

william m smith, I figure you might be interested in these maps I came up with. I have theorized how Runestone Hill may have been originally mapped, not only regionally, but on location, too. The Newport Tower figures into my renderings nicely.

So then, Templar-remnant Portuguese may have built the Newport Tower...with full knowledge of an earlier 1362 exploration by earlier Templar-remnants? Got it.

9/24/2013 05:56:54 pm

There's a few inconsistencies with the Portuguese building the Newport Tower. I'll try to keep them as brief as possible, for easier reading.

1) Some that support the idea of the Portuguese building the tower, credit the feat to Miguel Corte-Real, after becoming stranded during a search for his brother, Gaspar. Here's the problem: Gaspar disappeared in 1501 and Miguel went searching in 1502. Neither were heard from again. So, if Miguel built the tower in 1502, in hopes that his oldest brother, Vasco Anes, would come looking and see it, this means the construction occurred 30 years after William's proposed date. It can be further argued that it has strong supporting evidence, since the Dighton Rock, in Massachusetts, bears Miguel's name...with the year 1511.

2) When the colony in Newport was founded in 1639, a watermill was built by Nicholas Easton. It couldn't supply the growing colony with enough water to grind all the needed grain, so Peter Easton built a windmill in 1663. This windmill was destroyed in 1675, so it has been suggested that Governor Arnold built the "Old Stone Mill" as a replacement. There is, admittedly, no documentary evidence for this chain of events; however, it might be a logical assumption.

3) Lastly, there are some anecdotal stories about it, but the most compelling story is this; in 1643, Roger Williams, co-founder of the colony, published a book called "A Key into the Language of America". This was based on his years of friendly contact with the Narragansett people, and it included not just details of their language, but also a great deal of information about their culture and their view of the world around them. One thing it does not include, however, is a single word about a mysterious stone tower on Aquidneck Island.

Just some things to think about. It is frustrating to make sense of it all, when so much seems to be missing.

Jay

10/2/2013 05:38:39 am

Good afternoon,

I have read a number of your reviews regarding Scott Wolter and America Unearthed tv series. Though your reviews are good and their are points during the show were I am also thinking "huh, I don't know if I agree with that", but I still keep an open mind to the possibilities, even the far fetched ones lol. I just gets me thinking if nothing else. With that being said, I have to wonder if you hold some kind of personal grudge against Scott Wolter or something. I haven't notice you mention at least one good thing or one good point about anything Wolter does or says. If you have, I might have missed it in all the negativity of your review and I apologize for that. I'm sure not everyone is right about everything 100% of the time, so give a little credit. Point out some things you feel he got right or was correct about. It would help make your review more credible to an untrained eye, or novice to the field, rather than writing something that comes off like a personal vendetta to discredit everything about someone. Readers become turned off and chalks it up as another personal bash review, rather than looking at the facts and learning something in the process. Is there any good points you have about the show outside of any personal feelings you may or may not have regarding Wolter?

10/2/2013 06:50:13 am

I have never met Scott Wolter, so I have no personal feelings about him. He has come to this blog in the past and accused me of being part of a conspiracy against him, so that certainly colors my views some. As for what he does well, I'm afraid I'm not able to offer you a false equivalency and pretend he's making good points. He is peddling a conspiracy that has no factual foundation, accuses people left and right of being stupid, evil, or arrogant, and throws tantrums when his mistakes are pointed out to him. If you'd like falsely fair and balanced, try Fox News.

As for America Unearthed: I have regularly praised the camera work on the show. The cinematography is excellent, and the camera people are true professionals.

10/2/2013 07:28:24 am

Haha, no thanks on Fox News. That is understandable and no need to falsify anything. I was just curious and wondered if past confrontations with Scott Wolter some how fueled your negative reviews in any way. So, basically nothing, other than the camera crew as professionals hahah, had to laugh at that lol, is good about America Unearthed in your opinion?

Anyway, thanks for your response and keep up the good reviews. They are a pretty good read that does a good job of getting people to think before taking a tv show at face value, just because it's on tv.

Jay

10/2/2013 07:34:45 am

I can't lie, Jay. I have a hard time finding anything good to say about a show that present fiction and pretends it's fact. I went into the series with an open mind, and as I researched each claim, I discovered that almost literally *nothing* the show says is true. I won't pretend that there is a way to say fake facts are good.

But ask yourself this: When does Scott Wolter praise mainstream scholars? On the show he calls them all sorts of names, and on the radio he's even worse. So ask him why he isn't fair and balanced.

10/2/2013 07:51:21 am

I agree with you 100%. There isn't an ethical way to push fiction as fact. Now that I think on it, I do notice that he gives next to no credit to mainstream scholars during the show, actually watching it now on HC lol, and he does show contempt towards them. Never listened to him on the radio, so can't comment on that.

On a side note, the Templar/Da Vinci stuff really kills the show for me to be honest. That stuff is getting about as ridiculous as the claim aliens built the Pyramids because humans couldn't possibly have the intelligence to figure out how to use what they had at the time to build something that great.