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"America Unearthed" Guest: Producers Misrepresented Me, Lied to Audience about Facts

6/1/2014

104 Comments

 
America Unearthed makes people angry, especially the type of people who go on America Unearthed. It seems that they make enemies wherever they go. In the past, we’ve heard from Scott Dawson about his deep anger at the show for promising a sober documentary about Roanoke and then spending the filming day attacking Dawson for his refusal to agree with pseudoscience. We’ve seen bookbinder Joe Rose express his upset that America Unearthed misrepresented his views to make it look like he supported factually inaccurate claims about Mithraism. Other guests have made similar claims that they had been taken out of context or misrepresented or had important parts of their statements omitted. Today we can add another name to this list of the program’s discontents.
Jay Longley appeared in S02E12 “Lincoln’s Secret Assassins,” about the Knights of the Golden Circle, where he seemed to suggest that a man named Henry Ford in his hometown of Brownwood was actually the outlaw Jesse James. It almost goes without saying that Longley claims to be another victim of the show’s slippery relationship with the truth.

Here he is in his own words, posted last Sunday on his website. I have broken it into paragraphs for easier reading, but the original spelling and punctuation remain:
I was with the crew in Downtown Brownwood for 11 hours in September 2013. Much of it was while being recorded as I gave as much information about the subjects as I could. They promised that they would return to Brownwood to do a much more detailed account but when the show aired in February, I was truly disappointed in the results.

They made it look like I believed that our Henry Ford was Jesse James, which I don't believe and which I told them I didn't believe. I also told them that I believed "J. Frank Dalton" was and why. We spent a lot of time as I detailed the circular route of the KGC Tunnel Network under Downtown Brownwood too but when the show was edited, they took out the top half of the route which included me saying that one tunnel went from the Old County Jail (Museum) across Main Street to the old Ford School. My tunnel route was confirmed when Scott Wolter and I took a trip during a break in the filming to visit the Courthouse and the Old Jail. Nick, the Museum manager, took us under the old jail and showed us exactly where the tunnel was and it clearly led precisely to where I had told Scott it did. I didn't have my camera with me but Scott took some photos of it with his.

After the show aired, I wrote to one of the contact people with the film production company that makes America Unearthed for the History Channel and asked for Scott Wolter's email address because I wanted him to send me some copies of the photos he took of the tunnel entrance. I never heard back from them again.

Also, in the program, Scott says that they left the ground penetrating radar operator and equipment with me. That is simply not true. I met the gpr operator when he arrived from Ft. Worth about lunchtime as Scott, the sound and film crew and I were about to take a lunch break and he began scanning some of the areas while we were at lunch and when we were filming in other locations downtown so I never got to see him actually using the machine. Scott and the crew continued filming me until an hour or so after the gpr man had left to return to Ft. Worth late that afternoon. Their filming of the descendent of Gen. Joseph Shelby didn't happen until a day or two after they had shot the Brownwood part of the episode. 

Scott Wolter made several inaccurate statements during the episode.  Many of them were done after the filming during the "editing" process. I made one very clear and non-negotiable stipulation when I finally agreed to meet with Committee Films for the show.  That was that I would not say anything that I didn't believe was true or accurate and they assured me that they didn't want me to and that they would portray my statements accurately. Well, that's not the way it turned out… […] Needless to say, I won't be doing any more tv shows based on our work here in the foreseeable future.
How many times do we have to travel down this path? The ritual is always the same. Someone goes on the show and gives a lengthy interview. The producers chop it up and reassemble selected pieces to support a different narrative, and then they utterly ignore the anger and bad blood created through their misrepresentations. It happens often enough that it can’t be an accident or ignorance; the producers must be purposely manipulating interviews to support a predetermined narrative. Worse, Committee Films’s irresponsible behavior is poisoning the pool for future documentarians and researchers.

But on the other hand, America Unearthed seems unable to shake Richard Thornton, the fringe writer who appeared in the very first episode to discuss his belief that the Maya colonized Georgia. Thornton continues to publish an unending series of articles attempting to keep alive the pseudo-conspiracy Scott Wolter hinted at in that first episode, namely, that the U.S. Forest Service was conspiring to suppress Wolter’s work for fear of… well, it was never really stated. Thornton, however, has become a bit of an embarrassment as his version of the conspiracy has mushroomed into a trans-national conspiracy involving prejudiced Latinos who hate Thornton for his self-described racial identity of “mestizo,” evil Federal authorities bending over backward to appease Native Americans, and gay panic.

In a lengthy piece published on his LinkedIn profile on Friday, Thornton outlined the racial conspiracy he feels Scott Wolter stumbled into alongside him. He began by describing how Ignacio Bernal, the Mexican anthropologist, refused to assist him, implying that Bernal was prejudiced against both mixed race people and the poor:
When he realized that I was a young mestizo student from a family of modest means, who was just beginning to speak Spanish, he glanced at his watch, threw up his hands, uttered “idiotas,” and walked away. I never saw or heard from him again.
Thornton said he had to turn to a fellow “mestizo,” Dr. Roman Piña-Chan, to learn about the mysteries of Mexico, though he also claims to be “self-taught.” Thornton oddly enough also revealed some of the origin for his hatred of the federal government. He writes that in 2009 he lost his home to a Fannie Mae eviction and contemplated suicide before throwing himself into forest exploration as an escape from his troubles, moving from site to site every two weeks for two years. The turning point came when he started writing for Examiner.com and sparked a controversy with what he (wrongly) believed to be evidence of a Maya city in Georgia. This in turn prompted Scott Wolter to come calling.

This is where the conspiracy truly began. It really has to be read in his own words, especially the part where Thornton asserts that Federal authorities tried to frame him as gay and a sexual predator:
On the day before filming began here at my cabin, Scott Wolter, the host of the History Channel’s America Unearthed, made one more attempt to get permission to at least personally visit the Track Rock Site. He was rejected and told that with or without a film crew, he would be arrested if he stepped on the property. The arrogant USFS bureaucrat signed the denial with an oversized signature that stretched across the form. It was on a clipboard beside my computer as I was being filmed with Scott. They filmed here for over eight hours, but only about seven minutes made it to through the final cutting.

After the History Channel completed filming in Georgia and Mexico, the US Forest Service launched a multi-media propaganda effort that it called “Maya Myth-Busting in the Mountains.” Vastly more taxpayer’s money was expended in this silly program than I have earned in the past ten years.

A law enforcement smear campaign was initiated. Federal and state law enforcement monitored my movements throughout 2012 and early 2013. On several occasions federal law enforcement contacted people in my day to day contacts, including my landlord, to tell them, “He’s crazy. Don’t believe anything he says about the Mayas.” Apparently, the jurisdiction of the Patriot Act has been extended to include protection of obsolescent interpretations of Native American town sites.

Neighbors were told by federal and state law enforcement that my three Scottish farm collies were dangerous attack dogs, who would kill their babies, puppies and cats. The bad cops also said that I was probably gay, but they hadn’t been able to get a photo of me with another male. They asked the neighbors for assistance in proving that I was gay. When only women were seen in my company, the feds tried something else. Men, who I only knew from emails, wanted to drive from other states to spend the weekend in my cabin. No way José!

Officials at the University of North Georgia (located in my county) were told that I was probably a sexual predator of coeds. Wait a minute! I thought you said I was gay? Throughout the later part of 2012, UNG campus cops would race out to the boulevard that bounds the campus to protect their coeds, whenever I drove to Walmart or the supermarket.
Thornton provides no evidence than any of his allegations actually occurred. There is a Florida sex offender who shares Thornton’s name, so there is a small chance that there was some confusion about his identity, though it seems unlikely. Thornton, of course, also believes that academics are out to get him because several archaeologists made public statements against his views in response to his Examiner articles.

His statements remind me of nothing so much as Sirius Mystery author Robert Temple’s angry allegations that the CIA and the “hypnosis community” were conspiring to ruin his life, deny him jobs, and suppress his books because of “revelations” about space frogs from Sirius. Both men felt that dark forces were monitoring them and secretly turning their friends against them. We could draw some conclusions from this, but Thornton seems like the type who’d sue me for doing so; therefore, I’ll leave readers to make their own evaluations about whether we can trust Thornton’s account of what he sees as the government’s gay frame job.

Thornton credits America Unearthed with helping him put one over on the evil Federal government, and he says it changed his life (it’s the first thing on his LinkedIn profile), so much so that tourists now visit his cabin to thank him for sticking it to evil “college professors” who are suppressing the truth.
104 Comments
Jerome Viveiros link
6/1/2014 08:37:03 am

Reminds me of Graham Hancock in a way. Perhaps it's time for Thornton to lay off those hard drugs. Of course I'm just guessing, but it's OK for *me* to do so.

Reply
Ganji Joe
6/1/2014 08:59:15 am

Let's remind ourselves, how did Coleridge-Taylor compose Kubla Khan....

Reply
Microsoft Mike
6/1/2014 09:19:19 am

Horizon: Season 33, Episode 12
Psychedelic Science (27 Feb. 1997)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0440985/

EP
6/1/2014 01:31:00 pm

The Milk of Paradise YO!!!

Ganji Joe
6/1/2014 08:01:50 pm

Ganja is the holy anointing oil - the miracle healer and life restorer

Mark 6:12-13
"They went out and preached that people should repent. They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them"

Philip the Apostle
6/1/2014 08:08:43 pm

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gop.html


Philip the apostle said, "Joseph the carpenter planted a garden because he needed wood for his trade. It was he who made the cross from the trees which he planted. His own offspring hung on that which he planted. His offspring was Jesus, and the planting was the cross." But the Tree of Life is in the middle of the Garden. However, it is from the olive tree that we got the chrism, and from the chrism, the resurrection.


Jay Longley link
6/1/2014 09:15:58 am

Thank you, Jason, for accurately posting my blog entry from my Knights of the Golden Circle website and giving my true account of what happened during my experience with Scott Wolter and the camera and sound crew during the filming of the Brownwood segment of America Unearthed: Lincoln's Secret Assassins. I and my fellow researchers are discussing this hatchet job at my Yahoo group which I listed above this comment. Our group is a private group but anyone who is interested in hearing the whole story can apply to join and I will approve their membership application.

Reply
EP
6/1/2014 01:39:49 pm

Jay,
If it's not too much trouble, could you shed some light on how Committee Films went about successfully "reassuring" you that you won't be misrepresented?

Reply
Jay Longley link
6/2/2014 09:18:02 am

EP, I had a verbal (telephone conversations) and written (email) agreements with the producer in which he promised that my statements would not be misrepresented. I did not ask to be on the show and was reluctant to go on it. The Producer contacted me from my Knights of the Golden Circle website by email and then we talked on the phone for over an hour. During the phone conversation, he was persistent and I finally agreed to do the interview because of his repeated promises to me that I would not be misquoted, misrepresented, or asked to say anything that I did not believe was true.

Steve StC
6/1/2014 04:07:18 pm

Jay Longley,

When I was on America Unearthed, I signed a contract.
1. Did you?
2. Did that contract clearly stipulate how the show works - that the footage will be edited; etc.
3. Did the contract offer you right of first refusal of the edit?

I love it when Jason-and-his-keyboard dig up a disgruntled person who's never been on-camera before and expects the episode to be called "The Jay Longley Show, Co-Starring Scott Wolter". Jay was filmed for 11 hours (you were not filmed for 11 hours!! Jesus!! You might have been there for 11 hours, but were in front of an active camera I would guess for no more than 3 hours) and I guess Jay expected that AU would use each of his precious words in just the precise, lengthy way he intended. In fact, the show has a well-known edit style. Perhaps you took it upon yourself to study a few episodes before you stepped in front of the cameras, Jay? Doing that, you would have been better able to prepare yourself for how to deliver your case.

"We spent a lot of time as I detailed the circular route of the KGC Tunnel Network under Downtown Brownwood too but when the show was edited, they took out the top half of the route…" Well Jay, if only they could notify the other shows that they would be bumped that night because Jay "spent a lot to time" "detailing the circular route of the KGC Tunnel Network…" See, Jay. It's a TV show. It gets edited. See Jason, that's how television works. Not every show can be like Mr. Rogers Neighborhood that you grew up with -
http://youtu.be/W42pX8bUqkU
"You… know… people… can… make… pretzels…in… many… different… shapes… and… sizes…" That's exciting TV, Jay and Jason.

Jay whined, "After the show aired, I wrote to one of the contact people with the film production company that makes America Unearthed for the History Channel and asked for Scott Wolter's email address because I wanted him to send me some copies of the photos he took of the tunnel entrance. I never heard back from them again."

You're right, Jay. It's a conspiracy. You said you asked someone at Committee Films for Scott's email address. Did you write Scott an email? Did… you… type… his… email… address… in… correctly?

Jay wrote, "I made one very clear and non-negotiable stipulation when I finally agreed to meet with Committee Films for the show." How did you make that stipulation, Jay? Did… Mr. McFeely,… the… post… man… on… Mr. Rogers… Neighborhood… deliver… that… stipulation… for… you… Jay? Or did you simply say it to someone? Things in writing make it to the editors. Things over a phone call or whispered to Ana Platypus (another Mr. Rogers character) cannot be guaranteed.

Your stipulation was that you "would not say anything that I didn't believe was true or accurate and they assured me that they didn't want me to and that they would portray my statements accurately. Well, that's not the way it turned out…"

In the diatribe above, I count only 1 incident of them not portraying your statements accurately - the Henry Ford vs. J. Frank Dalton thing. Am I missing something. Did you make other statements that were not portrayed accurately? If not, whey did you write "statements" in the plural?

Have any of Jason's acolytes thought to ask such questions of Jay? Of course not!! This has come down from on high. It shall not be questioned.

In my experience with AU, they went out of their way to work with me on getting my lines the way I wanted. During filming, they would occasionally want to take the subject in a different direction, but I had my sound bites the way I wanted them and memorized in advance, and they respected that and went my way. I'm the expert on my subject, and they were just fine with that.

Watching Jay Longley on this episode was painful. I would have hated to try to edit this down to something intelligible. Some people are clear, concise speakers and "made for TV". Others should stick to long-format late night radio where they can prattle on and on.

Reply
EP
6/1/2014 04:33:18 pm

"In the diatribe above, I count only 1 incident of them not portraying your statements accurately - the Henry Ford vs. J. Frank Dalton thing. Am I missing something. Did you make other statements that were not portrayed accurately? If not, whey did you write "statements" in the plural?"

In the diatribe above, you seem to have experienced a lapse of English comprehension. If A agrees not to misrepresent B's statements, then misrepresents one of B's statements, A still violates the agreement. Compare the following: Babysitter A assures parent B that he won't hit B's children. He then hits "only" one of B's children. Surely you wouldn't suggest that A has kept up his end of the agreement! :)

.
6/1/2014 04:44:24 pm

Networks, AMC & Tribune included, are known for savaging
writers and/or hijacking the brainchild of the person who gets
the pilot up and running. If H2 is treating the interviewed few
like lowly writers, then i am not in shock. their edits could have
been more factoid biased, and kinder, with or without a contract.
The Walking Dead has had praise, but Mr. Davenport is suing
AMC. Earth Final Conflict was herrinng-gutted by Tribune before
its notorious season five. AU mauls talent like a rabid bear can?

.
6/1/2014 04:49:10 pm

Actually asking him why a tunneling system like that at Vicksburg
or the Battle of the Crater in 1864 is to be found inside this small
Texas town would have dovetailed things succinctly. If he's correct,
that Texas town had more tunnels than all of Nashville did during its
siege at the height of the war. Texas tends to be rather flat & open.
Sharp, pert, "on topic" questions tend to keep a guest from rambles.

Only Me
6/1/2014 06:32:53 pm

Let's address some talking points, shall we?

1) Steve, have you confronted and grilled the following in the same disrespectful and tactless manner as you did Jay Longley: Scott Dawson, Joe Rose or Jim Egan (who disagrees with Scott Wolter's interpretation of the Newport Tower); the US Forest Service, which allegedly denied Scott access to the Track Rock Site; the land owner who denied Scott access to the spring house that Scott later proclaimed a ritual bathing chamber; the expert that disagreed with Scott's interpretation of Masonic symbolism in Washington, D.C.'s layout; Don Shelby, who informed Scott the Brandenburg Stone's writing could not be earlier than eighteenth century, after Scott proclaimed it couldn't be newer than 1492; or the Park Service in Hawaii, that reclaimed a spearhead before Scott could investigate? Or, is Jay Longley especially deserving of your derision, mocking and personal attacks because he's the most recent person to have something negative to say about AU?

2) You said, "I'm the expert on my subject", in your telling of your experience with AU. That's hilarious, Steve. You weren't shown conducting DNA testing or rifling through archives to prove/disprove a connection to the Templars, Jarl Henry Sinclair or New Ross. Instead, you stood next to Scott at a well, grinning like an idiot, when he proclaimed he was close to finding "your family treasure". If your expertise was serving as window dressing in a piss-poor episode, you exceeded expectations.

3) You say you've had a great experience working with AU. Naturally, Scott would treat his friends better than a stranger who isn't part of his clique. That's why you can't understand that someone may not have the same experience, as you did.

Oh well, I can't expect too much from Scott's apologist.

Matt Mc
6/2/2014 12:45:13 am

Steve I have not idea got the idea that things in writing make it to the editor. They don't we simply get producers notes and have to request contracts and clearances. Now maybe Committee Films is different who is to say but industry standards are that the editors only receive notes and instructions the the producers deem fit for them, contracts of any kind are not of those received.

An Over-Educated Grunt
6/2/2014 02:31:00 am

On the plus side, at least it's a relevant, directly linked reply to a comment.

John R.
6/2/2014 03:04:41 am

Steve, why are you so angry? Are you receiving compensation for doing this from Scott Wolter? I haven't yet heard about anyone speaking well of Committee Films other than you now- I have only heard many negatives. You don't think that says anything about the way they operate the show?

Matt Mc
6/2/2014 03:15:06 am

Steve supports Wolter, because Wolter is going to find Steves long lost families treasure and reestablish his royal heritage and rule by proving his family had an earlier land claim to North America. Of course this could be a problem since other Sinclair's claim that Steve is not of the "true" bloodline. But have no worries because Wolter will solve it all and make sure Steve gets everything.


Steve StC
6/2/2014 05:55:57 am

EP, I don't have time to try to decipher your points.

Only Me, I'm too bored by your comments to bother answering them.

John R, wrote "haven't yet heard about anyone speaking well of Committee Films other than you"

Where do you inform yourself, John R? I bet it's only at this hate blog.

Matt Mc, we can always count on you to reply like an ass.

All, I made valid points that remain unanswered. You acolytes only distract.

Steve StC
6/2/2014 06:02:15 am

The bigger point is this -
Jason-and-his-keyboard can dig up more people who are disgruntled about AU and SW. I can find about 2,000 people in Florida who dial 911 when McDonalds runs out of Chicken McNuggets. Kooks abound.

The fact that they hate AU does not give them credibility. But it does here at Jason's hate blog. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Matt Mc (just above) quoted such a person from my family. "He's whacko, but he hates my enemy Steve, so let's all embrace and encourage him." Go back and look at how that worked out Matt Mc.

Jason presenting these people followed by this crew of acolyte's lack of critical questioning only encourages more stupidity here.

EP
6/2/2014 06:30:18 am

"EP, I don't have time to try to decipher your points."

LOL if you need time to decipher them.

John R.
6/2/2014 06:37:50 am

You're lucky we wont be betting Steve. You would lose.

Walt
6/2/2014 06:49:21 am

I'm reminded of the 90/10 rule I always heard for call centers. Ten percent of customers are responsible for 90% of the calls, and the other 90% of customers are responsible for only 10% of the calls.

We likely never hear from 90% of those who are satisfied with Committee Films, but likely hear from all but 10% of those who are dissatisfied.

John R.
6/2/2014 07:11:08 am

Hey Walt, I'm curious how you know 90% of those interviewed are satisfied with Committee Films?

Walt
6/2/2014 07:23:00 am

I didn't say 90% of those interviewed were satisfied with Committee Films. I said it's likely we never hear from 90% of those who are satisfied, however many that may be. But, it's likely we do hear from 90% of those who are dissatisfied.

Only Me
6/2/2014 07:39:16 am

I, too, have valid points that remain unanswered. Of course, I don't expect Scott's apologist to have the honesty or integrity to answer them.

Matt Mc
6/2/2014 07:47:45 am

Seems like speculation to me. Kind of playing a odds game.

I mean we know that Steve and Alan Butler were happy with their appearances, so that is is two people that are happy with their appearance on AU. I think the count is like 7 or 8 that are unhappy. There could not of been more than 30 or guest tops over the two season so we know we are over the 10% mark on dislikes and maybe at a 3 to 5 % on likes.

If someone really wants to we could get an exact count of the amount of guests that have been on AU and then figure out if they match the 90/10 speculative ratio I bet it has already be crossed




An Over-Educated Grunt
6/2/2014 07:50:56 am

Walt's comment is a fairly general rule of management, that you spend 90% of your time on 10% of your people, because they're where the problems are. Here's the thing, though...

When that 10% almost universally produces the same complaint, chances are it's a valid complaint.

Now, on to the loudmouth jerk who thinks that only he gets to be a loudmouth jerk...

Sure, perhaps Steve St. Clair had a great experience with Committee Films. But my mom's had a Saturn Ion for the better part of a decade without having it kill her. Not every GM owner had that experience. You want to make a better experience, you don't listen to the 99% of your audience that didn't have problems. You listen to the 1% that did.

Jason Colavito link
6/2/2014 07:56:21 am

I have dutifully linked to accounts by people who had a lovely time on America Unearthed, including recently Lois D. Brown, who filmed an appearance for the upcoming season. Because that doesn't get Steve's dander up he forgets about such things and assumes I don't give notice to people who liked the show.

Paul
6/2/2014 08:06:42 am

Careful Jason. The episode hasn't aired yet and Ms. Brown may change her opinion. Then again, maybe not.

Walt
6/2/2014 08:16:07 am

Matt, if you have the patience to do that, you deserve an award.

But, the same thing would then have to be done for other shows that folks here respect like Frontline or Nightline, if it's still exists. Jason's opening paragraph could probably be written about either of those hard-hitting shows, just swapping the names of the shows and the people. Statistics showing AU having a higher percentage of disgruntled guests should end all conjecture.

Out of the list of unhappy guests put together by Jason and "Only Me', I'm guessing there's a reason the content provided by most of those guests was edited out. I see no reason for a few, however.

As for the repeated misrepresentation of guest's beliefs, I'm reminded of another saying I always heard without attribution: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Matt Mc
6/2/2014 08:27:02 am

Walt,

I spent 6 years working on Larry King live now given not the most confrontational show but in all those years the staff was only made aware of 3 guests that were unhappy with their appearance. And one my 4 years editing Around the Hour and Pardon the Interruption on ESPN we had guests that were angry with some hosts but never once where we made aware that a guest was unhappy with their presentation. Just as a clarification while all three shows looked live they were in fact filmed hours before airing and edited for time and content and aired live from tape.

Capt. Gregg
6/10/2014 04:49:55 am

All Mr. Longley has ever had to offer, either on his Yahoo group's board or on America Unearthed, are unsubstantiated rumors, idle speculation and long since disproved sources, such as J. Frank Dalton. He consistently rejects well-documented data that contradicts any of the tall tales he embraces. As low as the expectations I have of America Unearthed are, that Scott Wolter would even consider putting him on camera is still mind-boggling.

Jane Anderson link
2/19/2018 03:35:15 pm

Steve STC and Capt. Gregg, you may be interested to know that the Legendary Conspiracy Theorist, Jay Longley is quite well known for claims such as this. Everything from his proud statements regarding his arrest and imprisonment in his home town of Brownwood, Tx. during the 70's, where he claims government corruption is "Rampant", ( https://browncountycorruption.weebly.com/blog/rampant-corruption-in-brown-county-texas-with-multiple-eye-witness-testimony ); to his current claim that his great aunt's father in law, William C. Anderson, was the real Bloody Bill and " faked his death " in 1864.

His wild tales of being wiretapped, GPS tracking devices placed on his car, mail rifled through, and being buzzed by helicopters are legendary. The entire world of Academia and Google itself are trying to silence him, Evil Historians everywhere out to get him for threatening their livelihoods. Oh my.

We will be in that area soon, investigating and filming a documentary on Outlaw Impersonators, and would love to speak with anyone who may have information to share on this Longley fellow and any associates regarding this Bloody Bill impersonator. You can reach us through our contact link at our website below. We are looking forward to working with you!

Sincerely,

Jane Anderson
https://bloodybillanderson.blogspot.com

EP
6/1/2014 01:37:37 pm

"There is a Florida sex offender who shares Thornton’s name, so there is a small chance that there was some confusion about his identity, though it seems unlikely."

I shall read this sentence in the unintended way! :)

Reply
Seeker
6/1/2014 01:49:23 pm

Thanks for another entertaining and informative blog, Jason. It does appear a negative pattern is forming in terms of how guests are treated on the show and in how their comments are edited in whatever way best fits the slant of AU.

Sadly, neither Committee Films nor H2 probably care as long as the show gets good ratings. Still, as the number of disenchanted guests pile up, that might eventually dissuade new guests from participating.

Reply
Gunn Sinclair link
6/1/2014 03:28:01 pm

I almost hate to admit this, but I've had my own disillusionment with Committee Films and Scott Wolter. Well before I began commenting on this blog over a year ago, I tried to get Committee Films interested in doing a stonehole-related follow-up of sorts, and their response back then included a comment suggesting that Wolter had told them a particular stonehole I had referred to was modern, not old...in other words, throwing my informed take on stoneholes in question. Well, after all my previous research and photography about stoneholes, this was an undeniable insult.

So, even after my own very limited experience with Committee Films and Wolter quite a while ago, I have a lingering bad taste in my mouth. I told CF I wouldn't consider working with them in the future.

I tried to be friends with Scott Wolter years ago, and we exchanged some emails, but it didn't work out. I had bought one of his leather-bound X books quite a while ago, too, and I ended up selling it at half-price on Ebay after he discredited me to Committee Films.

Well, I guess I could change my mind about working with Committee Films, and suggest they make a teen adventure movie based on the Knights Templar coming to Runestone Hill. I might be extra-liberal with the movie rights, depending on their viewpoint of a particular triangulated, aged stonehole--to be found in America's Birthplace of Euro-Centrism...New Gotaland, SD.

(Sorry, highly esoteric and puzzling stuff.)

Reply
Only Me
6/1/2014 07:35:35 pm

After reading your comment, I found the end result peculiar. You pointed out that Scott had researched stone holes in Europe, with a possible connection to the ones in America. He seems to place great importance in the alleged sacred geometry of the stone holes around Runestone Hill. I find it odd that he would be so dismissive of one specific stone hole, without considering them all.

I don't want you to reproduce the e-mails between yourself and Scott or Committee Films, as that is a private matter. However, are you certain it was Scott that squashed your request? Considering the above, it just seems...strange.

Reply
Gunn link
6/2/2014 07:15:22 am

I know, I thought it was strange, too. Maybe my expectations were set too high for him. The truth of the matter is that the stonehole in question is obviously triangulated, not round, and a slab was cracked off the larger rock using the stonehole. (Google "plug and feathers" to see how.) This rock and this particular stonehole are quite significant to the locale, and there are other stoneholes and oddities in the area, too. This is within the Whetstone River area, near where the oceanic waterways converge.

Anyway, just before I began commenting here early last year, I had just submitted a tip for a possible program idea to CF, but nothing may have come of it anyway, since permissions would have been necessary and perhaps unavailable, etc. But the issue for me was that I was offhandedly discredited, as though I didn't know the difference between very round modern stoneholes and triangulated, aged ones.

I agree that it wouldn't be proper to reveal private emails, Only Me, but I don't mind quoting a pertinent segment from one to satisfy your curiosity. From amun@committeefilms: "I finally showed your photos to Scott, and he says the hole is drilled and not hand pounded and not a Norse stone hole, but modern."

And I had been so earnest, as you can imagine. Anyway, the stonehole rock in question is here at http://hallmarkemporium.com/krs/id27.html (large rock w/sunglasses). What do you think about the strange coincidence with the other flat-topped actual runestone from Gotaland? I have close-up's of the hole, if you care to look closer.

Right...this is odd to me, too, that Wolter would have been so dismissive of this particular stonehole. My email is at the website, above, if you want me to attach some close-up's. I remember way back when I first started commenting here I named one stonehole Jason and another one Scott. This is the same stonehole I had named Scott. You can also see the stonehole named Jason when you open the first page of the website, above. This was a fine, perfect example of a medieval, hand-chiseled, triangulated, aged stonehole for Jason to see...and it still is!

Only Me
6/2/2014 11:16:36 am

Sorry about not replying sooner, but I had to get my new computer up and running.

I clicked on your name for the link, but I'm being told the site doesn't exist or isn't available.

Gunn link
6/2/2014 03:07:19 pm

Hhmmm.... I'll try again.

Gunn
6/2/2014 03:36:51 pm

Anyway, Only Me, not that it really matters, unless you wanted me to email you close-ups of this particular stonehole. Again, the stone is unusual in that it has a flattened-top and a slab cracked out of it. I think this larger rock was a sort of marker to the area, which would then draw one in closer to other stoneholes and etc.

Oddly enough, I have pretty much gone full circle on this, from over a year ago, when I first began to think it would be good idea for archaeologists to zero-in on this area. In other words, what I've been harping on here lately, about New Gotaland, is basically the "tip" I had made CF aware of about a year-and-a-half ago.

Simply put, this particular stonehole is more unusual than most, and it's surrounded by other oddities. Moreover, that cracked-off slab may possibly be flipped over, and other inquiries might be made, too. But even so, I no longer support the idea of Wolter & Committee Films being in on it, at least with my involvement in any way. My initial level of trust in them has faltered.

As to your previous question about sacred geometry, Only Me, I think it is possible that sacred geometry was used for some purpose at Runestone Park, but if so, probably earlier than the KRS time-frame, and not associated with the KRS. I say this because I don't think the KRS was ever buried, so there would be no need for sacred geometry to relocate it. Maybe something else is buried, buried before the KRS was placed there as an afterthought location for a memorial.

We should keep in mind, too, I suppose, that the Knights Templar most likely had nothing to do with the KRS, though it is possible that later-connected Templar-remnants may have, thus the apparent use of the hooked X, and Templar-like associations with stoneholes.

666
6/4/2014 05:19:16 am

The Hooked X is everywhere
It's under every bed

Walt
6/2/2014 12:31:43 am

I think it's important to categorize the unhappy guests into two distinct groups: those who feel the show didn't accurately reflect their consensus-supported opinion, and those who believe the show misrepresented some of their wacky ideas. It matters to me that the first group is unhappy, but the latter group would likely be just as unhappy if they had filmed for Nightline, Frontline, or 60 minutes.

Reply
titus pullo
6/2/2014 01:48:48 am

This is what occurs when entertainment becomes a substitute for serious critical reasoning and rationality. Just this weekend I caught two shows that showed just how bad things have gotten. First Survivorman does Bigfoot and then the Russian Yeti blaming that famous ski/hiking deaths from 1959 to the mythical beast. Both so bad it wasn't funny..I actually expected more from Survirorman...but heck I guess he ran out of places to be dropped into.

Reply
Matt Mc
6/2/2014 01:52:26 am

I did not see the Russian Yeti program yet but I believe that the program is like the Mermaid one that Discovery did and it is a mockumentary program that expands off of a true event from the 50's

Reply
abductedbyaliens
6/2/2014 04:34:50 am

I saw the program and it did not appear to me that they presented fake "evidence." There was one video of a supposed Yeti near a river that looked like a guy in boots, and a photo of something looking out from the forest that they claimed was "proof" that a Yeti was stalking the skiers, but that was basically it as far as iffy stuff. They showed a lot of really gruesome photos of the dead skiers. And the Yeti screams at the end were certainly more convincing that the calls the "creatures" make on Mountain Monsters. But outside of the sort of proof that the military was there before the skiers were declared missing, the show didn't answer any questions about what happened to those people.

Matt Mc
6/2/2014 04:38:14 am

Like I said I did not see the program yet but it was made by the same production team as the Mermaid special and I know from my work with people at discovery that they wanted to make more mockumentaries like the Mermaid one since the Mermaid one had amazing ratings.

.
6/2/2014 06:07:31 am

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1905040/ "Devil's Pass" is on Netflix.

it takes the incident and themes it into a contemporary horror flic.

Dave Lewis
6/2/2014 10:35:51 am

There was a guy on Coast to Coast AM who was pushing his book on the Dyatlov Pass incident. He wouldn't reveal what he thinks happened. George Noory spent quite a bit of time asking him if this or that happened. It was like listening to a game of 20 questions.

EP
6/2/2014 12:46:15 pm

Wait, Dyatlov Pass is a Yeti thing now?!?!

Matt Mc
6/2/2014 12:50:30 pm

Discovery Channel made it so last night. Getting ready to sit down and watch it right now. If anything it will be better than Renny Harlin's horrible movie DEVIL'S PASS.

Gary
6/2/2014 03:30:10 pm

Here is a rational explanation of the incident.
http://doubtfulnews.com/2014/06/dyatlov-pass-and-mass-murdering-yeti-a-dn-exclusive/

BillUSA
6/8/2014 02:33:46 am

titus pullo - I completely lost any and all respect for Survivorman based on simply reading the name of the episode. I do realize that almost every show on television has a shelf life and that a show like Survivorman can only cover a limited number of environments and perhaps a larger number of scenarios.

But Bigfoot? What a terrible way to besmudge the credibility of an otherwise informative and level-headed previous body of work.

I'm done with Survivorman.

Reply
Lynn Brant
6/2/2014 02:08:35 am

The insecure and self-absorbed fame seeker turns to the dark side to satisfy his thirst. It's a story at least as old as the Faust legend.

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Rev. Phil Gotsch
6/2/2014 06:55:56 pm

LOL …

This has all gotten to be really *interesting* …

But … You know what … ??? I participated in a meeting with Scott Wolter recently, in which he was presented with a very nice little bottle of "Colavita" Olive Oil … !!! Really … No joke … Coincidence … ??? Do you think so … ??? Stay tuned, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls …

LOL ...

Reply
Bill White
6/3/2014 03:24:52 am

You guys sound really close after 25+ years. What does this have to do with producers misrepresenting interviewees and lying to the audience. You obviously do not care at all about these interviewees or their frustrations. Real caring Rev. Do you bring anything to this important discussion, anything to add or change that would be helpful. Other than LOL, LOL, like a 5 year old.

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RJR
6/3/2014 04:06:12 am

Will that be his PhD?

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Can't resist the snark!
6/3/2014 08:46:18 am

Nice!
"Dr Scott Wolter, PhD(OO)"

Matt Mc
6/3/2014 05:02:37 am

Hey the Rev is all about honesty and integrity, unfortunately Committee Films and by proxy the public persona of Wolter are not.

Reply
Ganji Joe
6/4/2014 05:18:27 am

I bet that Olive oil didn't have any ganja in it.
I bet it wasn't the water of life

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Rev. Phil Gotsch
6/3/2014 09:36:15 am

Scott Wolter is the host of a commercially produced series of TV shows (H2, "America Unearthed") that are put forward for public viewing in order to attract an audience that will look at the paid adverts …
Yes … I am indeed being entirely honest … about that, and a whole lot else, also ...

Reply
Mandalore
6/3/2014 02:06:50 pm

Exactly, Phil. Fuck the people whose appearances are duplicitously altered to make them look like fools supporting ideas they disagree with. Morality and ethics? Irrelevant when one wants "to attract an audience that will look at the paid adverts ..." Totally fine.

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Rev. Phil Gotsch
6/3/2014 03:51:17 pm

LOL … Your words, not mine …

A few decades ago, one of my seminary professors got himself into a difficult spot …

In the time shortly running up to Easter Sunday, a local newspaper reporter interviewed him about "the Resurrection of Jesus," and my prof. stated (clearly, but in his remnant immigrant Norwegian brogh), "The Resurrection of Jesus is not in the realm of proof … "

The reporter heard it wrongly, however, so he was quoted as having said, "The Resurrection of Jesus is not in the realm of truth …" Oooops …

One of the morals of every such kind of story … is … Don't give an interview for publication unless you are guaranteed at least some editorial opportunity ...

Matt Mc
6/4/2014 12:18:06 am

ahh so it is the guests of AU fault that Committee film promises one thing and does another. I also notice you seem to think that any commercial entity is not subject to acting with any truthfulness, I find that interesting.

Says a lot if you ask me.

You do not have to agree or not but for me the bottom line is the Committee films and Scott Wolter (both on the show and in interviews) have demonstrated a history of dishonesty and a lack of respect for their guests and audience. Hell even the cast of FINDING BIGFOOT and of all shows AMISH MAFIA have called out the producers and demanded that they act in a more responsible way in the editing process and the way the subject matter is presented. It really is sad that AU falls lower than AMISH MAFIA in the ethics department.

So please go ahead an defend your friend but no matter how many times you claim to support honesty and integrity it will not make that present in the case of AU. If anything it just makes you look foolish.

Gary
6/4/2014 05:23:53 am

Phil, are you a fan of Martin Luther?

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Rev. Phil Gotsch
6/4/2014 06:33:07 am

Gary --

Yes and no … I have long preferred Phil Melanchthon over Marty Luther … Luther went too far *over*the*top* too many times … and he "didn't play well with others" ...

Gary
6/4/2014 11:40:49 am

I asked because you seem to have a similar attitude about truth telling, except where he thought it was okay to lie to protect the church from a bad reputation, you seem to have the same attitude towards a TV show.

Paul
6/3/2014 05:34:42 pm

I didnt know a mistake was a synonym for intentionally misleading/lying.

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Rev. Phil Gotsch
6/4/2014 02:01:37 am

H2 "America Unearthed" is a commercially produced and distributed series of TV shows intended to draw and hold the attention of an audience ...

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Matt Mc
6/4/2014 02:42:02 am

so that exonerates them from having to tell the truth?


I get it, if it is done for profits lying is okay.

No need to keep stating that. All I am saying that you are demonstrating how your personal ethics reflect upon your statement of honor and integrity which appears to be about the same level as displayed by AU and your lifelong friend Mr. Wolter. I get it bottom line is profits and nothing else matters. Truth is not important, honoring promises is not important, nope all that matters is good ratings and generating add sales all for the sake of making money.

Sad sad state if you ask me.

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
6/4/2014 03:45:00 am

No … that is YOUR "take," not mine …

But, yes, commercial TV shows ALL without exception rely on funding by paid advertisers … That is one reason, frankly -- but not the only one -- I watch very few commercial TV shows …

I do find the Wolter mania … interesting ...

Matt Mc
6/4/2014 04:34:59 am

Rev as I have stated in the past. I have worked in the TV Industry going on 25+ years. Producing and executing TV shows can be done without misleading and lying to your guests and audiences. This is the case in news, documentaries, sports, cartoons, and other forms of entertainment programs.

Committee films seem to think that it is okay to deceive their guest and audiences , and Wolter has demonstrated and stated in his own blog that he does not see a problem with that. The guests, audience, and other have a right to bring attention to this. Just because it is a commercial product does not mean it is exempt, just like GM is responsible for notifying it clients of problems with its cars. AU and Wolter are showing that they are not concerned with ethics and the integrity of the program and instead seem to only care about getting it on the air. Your support for that behavior provides a example that your statement that you believe in "Honesty and integrity" is in fact false and echos of hypocrisy. So in my case I do not believe that you believe in honesty or integrity.

Mandalore
6/4/2014 04:50:28 am

Phil,

Ethics and morality for a supposedly Christian reverend are universal. I don't understand how you justify making exceptions for how Committee Films and AU deceives their audience and guests just because they are a for-profit enterprise. That is dishonest and thus wrong. It shouldn't matter why they do it. I don't recall Jesus' parable about when it is ok to lie to people to your audience when you need to placate advertisers.

Phil, in my opinion your defense of AU's questionable practices contradicts Christian values and makes me question your position as a 'reverend' since you place economic necessity above morality. You can still be Wolter's friend and apologist even if you don't agree with everything he or Committee Films does.

666
6/4/2014 05:21:18 am

I could soon write some new parables of Jesus today

Rev. Phil Gotsch
6/4/2014 06:36:06 am

Mandalore …

I certainly do NOT "place economic necessity above morality" … (except in cases of "situational ethics," which is not at issue here) ...

Reply
Matt Mc
6/4/2014 06:45:29 am

You just support if when your friends do it.

Understood.

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Rev. Phil Gotsch
6/4/2014 07:16:29 am

Matt Mc --

No … I just don't join the lynch mob against my personal friend and professional colleague …

Scott Wolter is the host -- not the editor or producer or writer or owner -- of the H2 "America Unearthed" TV shows …

Deal with it ...

Matt Mc
6/4/2014 07:32:27 am

And production companies questionable playing with the truth at the expense of the guest and Wolters questionable relationship with known racists and appearing on and in works that promote racist theories people like Jason and other will be critical of those decisions.

So again deal with it..... Committee films decided to behave in this manner and Wolter decided to associate with these people... So deal with it.

You can cry all you want and shout about facts and honesty but the facts point out the Committee films and Wolter ethics are not of the highest standard, you have a problem with that talk to your good FRIEND about perhaps over a nice appetizer of bread and that fancy olive oil.

Jason and others would not be talking about these issues if Committee films and Wolter were not doing them.


Rev. Phil Gotsch
6/4/2014 08:47:00 am

Hello … ??? I have consistently AGREED that discussing, critiquing, hashing over the content and conclusions of the H2 "America Unearthed" TV shows is a good and proper thing … Where is the problem … ???

I also consistently note that the H2 "America Unearthed" TV shows have a positive value (in my opinion) in provoking interest in and discussion of the history and pre-history of North America …

Get over it … or not … what ever …

Reply
Mandalore
6/4/2014 09:08:42 am

So now you have shifted from the need to please advertisers justifying Committee Films lies and mistreatment of guests to the supposed good ends ("provoking interest in and discussion of the history and pre-history of North America ...") justifying the shitty means (lies and mistreatment of guests).

And nobody is at the moment talking about H2; it is about Committee Films. You are trying to muddle the issue because you know your position is indefensible. Just as you start new threads in the discussion when you are pinned down.

Phil, why can't you acknowledge that at times Committee Films and its production America Unearthed have been dishonest and mistreated some of their guests? And I will note that I have said nothing about Wolter, so your go-to line about his persecution doesn't apply.

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
6/4/2014 09:18:24 am

Ummmm …

In his initial blog entry (above) our host, Jason C., makes several references to "Scott Wolter" and to "America Unearthed" …

So I joined the fray ...

I have no direct personal knowledge about "Committee Films" ...

Jay Longley link
6/5/2014 11:17:12 am

Here is what one of my enemies in the historical community had to say about Steve StC's episode on America Unearthed. This was posted by HonestAbe186 in May. The following post was made on delphiforums.com . It's funny that this anonymous poster said basically the same thing about Steve's appearance on the show that Steve said about mine. Out of all of the emails, phone calls, and personal conversations I've had with people who viewed the Lincoln's Secret Assassins episode, all except one of my Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group members had good reviews of my part on the show. That member said only that she was disappointed that AU didn't give more time to the Brownwood segment. In my follow-up conversations with her, it was made clear that her disappointment was a result of her being much better educated about the KGC's organization in Brownwood, Texas than the average viewer. Many of these people have asked me whether or not the gpr operator and I found any tunnels and if AU was going to do another episode about Brownwood and reveal what we found. I get numerous emails like this every time the episode is rerun. It's very annoying that I have to explain to each one that no, the gpr operator was not left with me as Scott Wolter said and, no, AU apparently has no intention to follow-up on the Brownwood connection. Of course, I've been ridiculed by a small group of paid enemies of mine, which I nicknamed the Smokescreen Gang, but they're paid to be critical of all of our BBAM group's research and educational efforts and they've been our most vocal critics since I began our investigation and group in 2006.
Quote from HonestAbe186:

"While channel surfing a while back I came across the Wolter's show on the History Channel (History MADE every day.) In the episode he was digging for the Holy Grail in some guy's backyard in Nova Scotia. It was painful to watch and I turned it off. I haven't been back since."

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Jay Longley link
6/10/2014 08:49:06 am

The anonymous Capt. Gregg is full of it. He's one more of the traditionalist myth makers who has a financial interest in perpetuating a fictitious history. Since our Yahoo group, Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery, is a Private group and our extensive files and messages are only allowed to be read by our members and since he and his cohorts are not allowed in our group, he should have no idea of the extent of our research or the contents of our private files. If he has somehow wormed his way into our private group using an alias, he is in violation of our clearly-stated group rules. He should also have no knowledge of what Scott and I discussed on or off-camera so he should not know what I said that day unless he's part of the hatchet job that was done on me. I'm revealing much of it on our group board now so if anyone is really interested in learning as much as I know about what went on before, during, and after the filming of the Brownwood segment of the AU episode, you are free to join our group. Just be sure to abide by the rules on our homepage please. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

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Capt. Gregg
6/10/2014 10:13:13 am

Interestingly paranoid attempt at a rebuttal, but ineffective.
You make no denial of your reliance on rumors, tall tales and discredited sources, nor of your refusal to accept valid documentation that belies your beliefs.
How AU fell for your tunnel story is a mystery -- for eight years you've been promising proof of their existence "next week" or "next month."
If, as you claim, you and your group seek historical truth, you would welcome all viewpoints and not hide in a closed group and eject all who disagree with you.
I challenge you to go public. Tell the world what you believe, and show the documentation to back it up.

Reply
Jay Longley link
6/10/2014 10:43:52 am

Unlike you "Capt. Gregg", I've gone public with our group's research findings many times on many forums over the past 8 years. I use my real name instead of hiding behind an alias. The manager of the Brown County Museum of History (Old Brown County Jail building) took Scott Wolter and I below the old buiding and showed us where one tunnel entrance is. His name is Nick so anyone is free to call them and ask him to verify this fact. Anyone, except paid critics like you, is welcome to join our Yahoo group and view our extensive archives of documentation and facts about any topic we've researched. We do not have to beg members to contribute money to fund our group or websites either as you and other traditionalist mouthpieces do on a regular basis. We also have two other free, popular websites that are public that anyone can read. knightsofthegoldencircle.webs.com & bloodybillanderson.webs.com
This will be my last reply to you, "Capt. Gregg", at least until you take your own advice and go public with your real name on your next post here.

Rollie Taylor
6/10/2014 11:31:34 am

Facts, Jay, not words. Give us facts. Facts that prove Jesse Woodson James survived assassination by Bob Ford and emerged as John Frank Dalton in Lawton, OK, in 1948. Facts that prove "Brushy Bill" Roberts was Billy the Kid as he claimed, not Oliver Pleasant Roberts born in 1878 (Billy the Kid was killed in 1881 when Ollie was 3.) Facts that prove John Wilkes Booth was not killed in the barn, later to emerge in Brownwood as John Ravenswood, then John St. Helen, before committing suicide as David George in Oklahoma. Facts that prove William T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson escaped the 1864 ambush and fled to Texas with his tail between his legs and changed only his middle initial to become William Columbus Anderson. Facts. Where are the facts? Have you let your mouth overload your ...... by relying completely on stories told by Henry Clay Fuller and J. Frank Dalton instead of researching the subjects thoroughly?

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Jay Longley link
6/10/2014 11:57:17 am

Ha! Rollie Taylor, the clown of the Smokescreen Gang, I should have known it was you. You've been banned from our group under so many aliases for your insane antics and dirty tricks that it's no surprise that you're ashamed to reveal your name. I'm not going to lower myself to even respond to your silly rant again. You are nothing but a stalker and a liar and you've discredited yourself so many times in the past few years that you wouldn't recognize solid documentation and proof if it hit you in the ass. I've given the links to this documentation and solid proof to everyone reading this blog so if they want, they can easily find it.

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Rollie Taylor
6/10/2014 12:08:03 pm

Facts, Jay, not words. But since you have no facts, no proof, only conjecture, you can only bluster and bloviate endlessly. Regarding your face time on AU, perhaps 10 of the 180 BBAM members bothered to comment, although you said only 1 woman had something negative to say. The other 170 members must have considered it unworthy of a comment.

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Chuck Rabas
6/10/2014 02:26:07 pm

I guess it's time I chimed in. I see that, as usual, Jay refuses to address the issue and provides nothing but paranoid rants. He writes that he has "...gone public with our group's research findings many times on many forums over the past 8 years." It's true that he has occasionally made ludicrous claims on various sites, usually citing laughingly inaccurate sources. The only such sites on which those claims were not effectively challenged are his own. He has also often expressed the belief that anyone who openly disagrees with his easily disproven claims can only be motivated by financial gain, and are employed by powerful publishers and/or wealthy "traditional" historians in order to keep "true history" from the masses.

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Fran Bolton link
6/11/2014 06:03:01 am

Chuck, you stated "He has also often expressed the belief that anyone who openly disagrees with his easily disproven claims can only be motivated by financial gain, and are employed by powerful publishers and/or wealthy "traditional" historians in order to keep "true history" from the masses."
To make such a claim be the truth, has he named those publishers and wealthy "traditional" historians, showing proof of what he accuses?
I am one that was ejected from his "private" site dedicated to teaching history, but I have friends that remain. Why was I ejected?
For posting proven facts, with primary records and documents to back it up, that he claimed was meant to "disrupt" his undocumented hearsay .
What proof did he offer AU that tunnels exist under Brownwood? Did he alert them that Brownwood lies in a flood prone area, that would not support tunnel networks?
Did he alert them to the fact that because of those floods/possible floods from nearby Pecan Bayou, the jail in question, built in 1903, had the first level and surrounding area covered by dirt, making it, in effect, the basement? Did he also show how the jail was then situated on a mound, surrounded by a rock wall, to help protect it from flood waters? Did AU understand this, and ask how can there be tunnels that were not covered or destroyed by this construction? Or floods? The builders of the jail had very good history that would not support hiding, or building, secret tunnels. " It was the first jail constructed in Texas by Youngblood Brothers, a firm which operates today as the Southern Steel Company, and which provided the equipment for many of America's largest prisons such as Riker's Island, New York."
Did AU Google Brownwood jail history?
Or Brownwood floods?
Special To The News.
Fort Worth, Tex., Sept. 24, 1900 - Information received from Brownwood this afternoon through the Fort Worth and Rio Grande office was to the effect that the Pecan Bayou had overflowed and had backed up into the business part of the city and had done considerable damage. Mr. L. B. COMER, general freight and passenger agent of the Rio Grande, said the overflow was regarded as the heaviest since 1873 and that the water was receding very slowly."

Did he alert AU to the old grain elevator that sat on the lot behind the jail, with a Sanborn Map showing a well located at the back door of the jail, where the "tunnel" entrance is claimed to be walled over? Were the same Sanborn maps used to show where the pre-jail water lines were dug? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanborn_Maps
Did AU do ANY homework before carting the GPR, cameras, crew and confetti to Brownwood?
Or, did they fall for "bluster blabber"?

Fran Bolton link
6/11/2014 10:16:57 am

Rollie, you commented to a poster who appeared on a recent segment of AU, filmed in Brownwood TX: "But since you have no facts, no proof, only conjecture, you can only bluster and bloviate endlessly."
There was no documentation presented to back up the Brownwood interviewee's beliefs, just a few WORDS listed below. He did have a map of downtown Brownwood as it is today, but the town was established in 1858 on the north side of Pecan Bayou, moved downstream, then across Pecan Bayou in 1870, the third and final move. (Were the supposed tunnels built before those moves, or after? How can they be secret if they were built of rocks that had to be quarried and moved by pulley and mule wagons?

His proof of what he spoke:

1. There was a newspaper article

2. Family believes

3. Supposed to be

4. Story of a backhoe operator

5. Anything is possible

6. Anything is possible (2)

Wolter said he was in Brownwood to learn about "alleged" tunnels. Wolter said he went to Brownwood TX to "follow the money", and look up a local treasure hunter, who told him he would find two more things there:

1. Proof Booth wasn't killed as history says

2. Jesse James real grave.

To prove #1, he offered Wolter this: A newspaper article said Booth was in Brownwood about a year during 1871.

To prove #2, he offered Wolter this: Lots of older people think Brownwood's Henry Ford was JJ, and he is buried less than 3 blocks from the interview site. When asked if he believed Ford was Jesse James, he replied "I believe Ford could be another alias for Jesse James"
Wolter didn't learn much. I saw no reason for him to return to dig the evidence of what "might be" a tunnel the GPR located, for the same reason Wolter should see, that being that piece of ground was disturbed for another purpose.

He said at the end of the episode that there "may be" tunnels under Brownwood, as well as Princeston IN and Leavenworth KS, and the "next step now is to dig". He didn't say where!

Reply
Fran Bolton link
6/11/2014 10:17:03 am

Rollie, you commented to a poster who appeared on a recent segment of AU, filmed in Brownwood TX: "But since you have no facts, no proof, only conjecture, you can only bluster and bloviate endlessly."
There was no documentation presented to back up the Brownwood interviewee's beliefs, just a few WORDS listed below. He did have a map of downtown Brownwood as it is today, but the town was established in 1858 on the north side of Pecan Bayou, moved downstream, then across Pecan Bayou in 1870, the third and final move. (Were the supposed tunnels built before those moves, or after? How can they be secret if they were built of rocks that had to be quarried and moved by pulley and mule wagons?

His proof of what he spoke:

1. There was a newspaper article

2. Family believes

3. Supposed to be

4. Story of a backhoe operator

5. Anything is possible

6. Anything is possible (2)

Wolter said he was in Brownwood to learn about "alleged" tunnels. Wolter said he went to Brownwood TX to "follow the money", and look up a local treasure hunter, who told him he would find two more things there:

1. Proof Booth wasn't killed as history says

2. Jesse James real grave.

To prove #1, he offered Wolter this: A newspaper article said Booth was in Brownwood about a year during 1871.

To prove #2, he offered Wolter this: Lots of older people think Brownwood's Henry Ford was JJ, and he is buried less than 3 blocks from the interview site. When asked if he believed Ford was Jesse James, he replied "I believe Ford could be another alias for Jesse James"
Wolter didn't learn much. I saw no reason for him to return to dig the evidence of what "might be" a tunnel the GPR located, for the same reason Wolter should see, that being that piece of ground was disturbed for another purpose.

He said at the end of the episode that there "may be" tunnels under Brownwood, as well as Princeston IN and Leavenworth KS, and the "next step now is to dig". He didn't say where!

Reply
Fran Bolton link
6/11/2014 10:18:01 am

Rollie, you commented to a poster who appeared on a recent segment of AU, filmed in Brownwood TX: "But since you have no facts, no proof, only conjecture, you can only bluster and bloviate endlessly."
There was no documentation presented to back up the Brownwood interviewee's beliefs, just a few WORDS listed below. He did have a map of downtown Brownwood as it is today, but the town was established in 1858 on the north side of Pecan Bayou, moved downstream, then across Pecan Bayou in 1870, the third and final move. (Were the supposed tunnels built before those moves, or after? How can they be secret if they were built of rocks that had to be quarried and moved by pulley and mule wagons?

His proof of what he spoke:

1. There was a newspaper article

2. Family believes

3. Supposed to be

4. Story of a backhoe operator

5. Anything is possible

6. Anything is possible (2)

Wolter said he was in Brownwood to learn about "alleged" tunnels. Wolter said he went to Brownwood TX to "follow the money", and look up a local treasure hunter, who told him he would find two more things there:

1. Proof Booth wasn't killed as history says

2. Jesse James real grave.

To prove #1, he offered Wolter this: A newspaper article said Booth was in Brownwood about a year during 1871.

To prove #2, he offered Wolter this: Lots of older people think Brownwood's Henry Ford was JJ, and he is buried less than 3 blocks from the interview site. When asked if he believed Ford was Jesse James, he replied "I believe Ford could be another alias for Jesse James"
Wolter didn't learn much. I saw no reason for him to return to dig the evidence of what "might be" a tunnel the GPR located, for the same reason Wolter should see, that being that piece of ground was disturbed for another purpose.

He said at the end of the episode that there "may be" tunnels under Brownwood, as well as Princeston IN and Leavenworth KS, and the "next step now is to dig". He didn't say where!

Reply
Fran Bolton
6/11/2014 10:58:52 am

Sorry about the 3 duplicate posts. I got a message there was an error posting my reply, to try again. I did, got the same message, so I tried again. I see no way to delete two of the 3.

Reply
Jay Longley link
6/11/2014 01:10:06 pm

Hey, Hey, the gang's all here! The Smokescreen Gang that is. But wait, they're not all here yet. Clay Riley, Glynda Campbell, Sally Goodson, and Carol Holmes haven't arrived yet. This is what they've done ever since I started investigating "Bloody Bill" Anderson and the Knights of the Golden Circle 8 years ago. They holler for me to go public and as soon as I do, they all stalk whatever websites I'm on and start posting the same old crap. It didn't work for the past 8 years but they think that somehow it will work now. In that time, our groups and websites have attracted many thousands of viewers and members while every attempt of theirs to create a website to compete with ours has miserably failed and they are left with less than a dozen of the same posters and stalkers. Rather than address the topics of Jason's post which was that I was lied to and that my words, beliefs and research findings were misrepresented, this gang just ignores that and starts the same old failed smokescreen game all over again. Chuck Rabas has even admitted attempting to sabotage my appearance on "Lincoln's Secret Assassins" and claims to have a mutual friend of Scott Wolters that he used to influence the show's outcome. The question people need to ask is why this small gang has worked so long and hard over the past 8 years to stop my investigation, silence me, ridicule me and other group members, and try to have my websites shut down? If there's nothing to our research findings, then why do these people feel so threatened that they've dedicated thousands of hours trying to shut me up? When you see someone's research findings or opinions that you disagree with posted on the Web, do you dedicate thousands of hours over 8 years trying to silence them and stalking them everywhere they post something? Of course not. What would entice you to do such a thing? The only answer I can come up with is money and lots of it.

Reply
Gary
6/11/2014 01:55:33 pm

So you believe that someone is obsessed enough with you to spend a lot of money to discredit you but that no one would do the same on their own without being paid to do it?

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Rollie Taylor
6/11/2014 05:38:06 pm

Gary, Jay Longley has for the past 8 years perpetuated a 1924 falsehood printed in a Brownwood newspaper that my great-great uncle, William Columbus Anderson of Brown County was the notorious guerrilla, William T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson. I personally find his lies quite offensive. O R 52, the official report of the Civil War, describes the engagement where William T. Anderson was killed in October 1864 in Missouri. Census records prove that there were 2 men named William Anderson of the same approximate age in Missouri in the early 1860s, William C Anderson and William T. Anderson. Longley's claim that payments are made to anyone who doesn't agree with his asinine version of historical events is typical of his paranoia. No one is paid to expose his baseless claims. Researchers who respect history, and search records to confirm the accuracy of the reported death of William T "Bloody Bill" Anderson 150 years ago have no use for a historical charlatan who claims William Columbus Anderson was William T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson; John Frank Dalton was Jesse Woodson James; Oliver Pleasant Roberts, known as "Brushy Bill" Roberts was Billy the Kid; and John Ravenswood/James St. John/David George was John Wilkes Booth. His misrepresentation of facts will not go unchallenged on any open board. He is safe in his BBAM hidey hole where dissent is not permissible and his lies cannot be rebutted.

Chuck Rabas
6/11/2014 07:10:29 pm

When a researcher, no matter what the field, makes what he feels is a significant discovery, he submits his findings for a peer review, where it is scrutinized by others in that field. The nearest Mr. Longley has come to doing so has been on a few public forums, and the responses have been universally negative. The sources he favors have long since been debunked. The 1924 newspaper article on which he bases his belief that Wm. C. Anderson was Wm. T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson has so many obvious holes that it should have been printed on Swiss cheese. The whoppers told by J. Frank Dalton, who he believes to have been Jesse James, were even more ludicrous than any story in an old Beadle dime novel. (A few of those tales were that he killed John Wilkes Booth in 1907 by giving him poisoned lemonade; that Emperor Maximilian was not executed, but escaped to the U.S., and that Wm. C. Quantrill was not killed in 1865, but survived his wounds and became a schoolteacher in Texas.)

In the course of the AU episode in question, as Ms. Bolton pointed out, he did not cite a single valid source for his claims. What somebody allegedly said or what somebody believes are not acceptable without supporting collaboration.



Joe Fro
6/11/2014 01:42:17 pm

Keep it up Jay! You are the man!!!

Reply
Jay Longley link
6/11/2014 02:55:12 pm

Well, Gary, if you can come to a more reasonable conclusion, I'd be glad to hear it. Less than a dozen of the same people, over 8 years, many thousands of hateful and derogatory messages on dozens of websites that include metal detecting and treasure hunting sites which represent a hobby that none of them are even involved in just because I am involved in it and I'm posting on those forums, and at least a dozen failed websites that they've either infiltrated and taken over or created to attack me and our research? It may not be clear to you, Gary, but it's abundantly clear to me that our research is a threat to some powerful interests and that those interests are paying this gang to do their dirty work for them which, by the way, have included posting and emailing death threats to others who challenge their historical myths. Gary, would you spend 8 years stalking me or anyone else and spend that kind of time doing those kinds of things if you weren't being paid handsomely to do it? Unless, you are one of their buddies (Gary James), I don't believe you would.
Thank you, Joe Fro. I plan to keep on researching and sharing our findings for as long as I'm breathing.

Reply
Gary
6/12/2014 12:38:04 am

Jay, my reasonable conclusion is that unless you have clear evidence that someone is spending a great deal of money to discredit you, your claims are irrational. Whoever would be paying people is not getting paid themselves, yet you deny in the same breath that such a thing as an unpaid critic could exist. There is an obvious contradiction in your reasoning that someone would be so against you as to pay a lot of money but no one would simply do it themselves without a paid middleman.
I have never heard of you before now and you are already suggesting that I'm a part of this conspiracy based on my first name and the fact that I noticed this glaring hole in your reasoning. These people appear to me to be no less obsessed with these subjects than you. I suggest you take a close look at your own logic and beliefs to see if I might be right or show some evidence. Otherwise, I have to conclude that you are probably either paranoid and irrational or using the idea of a conspiracy to make yourself look like a victim as a cheap psychological ploy. Either way, this is how it looks to an outsider. I suggest that you put that sort of claim behind you because either way it just makes you look bad.

Reply
bill smith link
6/10/2016 08:53:55 am

Are you guys aware that Jay Longley has publicly stated on an adult Facebook group that he has operated a "legal" gay porn site for many years and has 6000 members? When members of the group were asked what they dreamed of, he posted a picture of Justin Bieber holding his crotch. He also made a post about male masturbation with a picture of a naked male. This all seems strange from a guy who calls himself a "historian".

Reply
Jay Longley link
6/10/2016 03:33:01 pm

"Bill Smith" is a fake name that obviously has a bigot hiding behind it. I've never kept the fact that I'm a gay man a secret. Like most bigots, he's also a liar. Neither the photo of Justin Bieber nor the article from Gay Star News about the health benefits of regular masturbation contained any obscenity or violations of Facebook policies in them. The male in the article was not naked by only shirtless. My sexual orientation has nothing to do with my history work and only a repressed homo would post such a crazy attack on me for it.

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      • Extreme History >
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        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Remarkable Discoveries Within the Sphinx (Hoax)
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • The Shaver Mystery >
          • Lovecraft and the Deros
          • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
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        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
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        • Noah's Ark Cables
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        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
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        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
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      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
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        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
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        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
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      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
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      • Defining a Zombie
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      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
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      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
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      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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