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Ancient Alien Odds and Ends

4/16/2013

26 Comments

 
I’m feeling a bit lazy today, so I just have a few odds and ends about ancient astronauts to discuss.

New Pyramid Discoveries
First, I’m sure you remember that on Ancient Aliens S05E10 “The Von Däniken Legacy,” Erich von Däniken repeated his frequent assertion that the Great Pyramid was anonymous and that its construction is a complete mystery. In Chariots of the Gods (1968), he laid out his rhetorical case for alien involvement:

The Great Pyramid is (and remains?) visible testimony of a technique that has never been understood. Today, in the twentieth century, no architect could build a copy of the Pyramid of Cheops, even if the technical resources of every continent were at his disposal. […]  Several hundred thousand workers pushed and pulled blocks weighing 12 tons up a ramp with (nonexistent) ropes on (non-existent) rollers. This host of workers lived on (non-existent) grain. They slept in (non-existent) huts which the Pharaoh had built outside his summer palace.

What is interesting is that von Däniken has kept up this pretence despite exciting new discoveries. From 1999-2002, Mark Lehrner excavated the “non-existent” workers’ village at Giza, home to perhaps as many as 20,000 workers. Bones found in the ruins indicate that the workers were well fed on a diet of beef, among other things.

And today we have word that archaeologists have uncovered the oldest port in Egypt, on the Red Sea, dating back to the time of Khufu. At the site archaeologists found the oldest papyrus texts in Egypt, from the same period, and these texts apparently discuss the daily activities of Merrer while the Great Pyramid was under construction. The papyri discuss arrangements for provisioning workers with bread and beer, as well as details of transporting limestone blocks from the Turrah quarry for use in the Great Pyramid.

The banality of daily life really cuts against the fantastic narrative of alien intervention, not to mention more recent speculation that the Egyptians floated the blocks with magic sound waves, flew them through the sky with kites, poured them with concrete, etc.

To be fair, this find does not directly challenge Giorgio Tsoukalos’ revised version whereby the aliens merely planned the pyramids and delivered the blueprints to the Egyptians. But since Tsoukalos’ evidence for that was a late medieval Arabic text that says no such thing, and Philip Coppens’ evidence was a Ptolemaic era stela that also said no such thing, we of course await Tsoukalos’ proof that aliens planned the pyramids.

Alien Impact
In the current issue of Skeptical Inquirer Robert Sheaffer reviews several 1960s-era scientific papers that discuss the problems physics causes for interstellar travel. His interest is in how this impacts the likelihood of UFOs being alien spacecraft, but it also provides an intriguing test of the ancient astronaut theory. Edward M. Purcell calculated in 1963 that for a ship from another world to reach ours, it would need to accelerate to near the speed of light, requiring fuel in excess of one billion times the mass of the ship. According to William Markowitz in 1967—the year before Chariots of the Gods—an extraterrestrial spacecraft using nuclear energy as propulsion would sear the ground below at 85,000 degrees C and leave a radiation signature equivalent to an atomic bomb blast. Since there is no evidence of this anywhere on earth, Markowitz concluded that such craft have not landed here. Similarly, there is no evidence of billions of tons of fuel material missing from the earth.

This sort of puts the lie to von Däniken’s and Zecharia Sitchin’s claims that every fiery chariot or smoky apparition was an alien rocket ship on the Saturn V model.

Markowitz noted that such physical impossibilities could be wished away with special pleading for unrecognized forms of propulsion. Ancient Aliens is particularly fond of wormholes, for which there is currently no scientific evidence that they (a) exist or (b) are large and stable enough for ships to pass through safely.

Perhaps this is why more recent ancient astronaut claims have backed away from actual spaceships and real aliens toward a more nebulous “non-human intelligence” penetrating our dimension from a vaguely-defined other reality via misunderstood properties of quantum mechanics. (Careful readers will recall that this was the plot of H. P. Lovecraft’s “Dreams in the Witch House,” where a witch’s magic is revealed as advanced math for traveling across dimensions.)

Teaching Kids about Ancient Aliens

The Marvel Comics universe has its share of ancient aliens. Most famously, it makes the Norse gods into a race of aliens. In the most recent episode of the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon (“The Man-Wolf”), Disney and Marvel are also teaching children that ancient aliens have left archaeological remains on the moon. DC Comics is not immune, of course. In addition to its cosmos full of alien races, the final episodes of the excellent Young Justice cartoon proposed that ancient aliens were responsible for Egyptian temples. Similarly, during the first and only season of Green Lantern: The Animated Series aliens were responsible for the archaeological ruins of an ancient temple. Even Disney’s Phineas and Ferb suggested aliens built the pyramids.

I’m the last person to say that fiction shouldn’t be allowed to present fantastic scenarios, but I can’t help but think that the frequency with which the ancient astronaut hypothesis is used—and not as outrageous fantasy as in Lovecraft but rather as an accepted background truth—does run the risk of priming kids to accept the idea later on. Unintentionally, the repetition of this idea in cartoons serves as ancient alien propaganda. 

26 Comments
Joseph Craven
4/16/2013 10:15:43 am

if that Ultimate Spider Man episode is referencing the Blue Area of the Moon, that's been a part of the marvel universe since the 60s.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
4/16/2013 11:05:04 am

Honestly, I'm not as familiar with Marvel as I am with DC, so I'm not sure whether this was meant to tie in to the Blue Area. It had a cave full of jewels that turned people into animals.

Reply
Thane
4/16/2013 12:50:07 pm

Let's not forget that much of stuff in entertainment is rehashing of concepts and themes from OTHER entertainment which borrows liberally from anything that intrigues the creator regardless of the source.

>>Disney and Marvel are also teaching children that ancient aliens have left archaeological remains on the moon

I thought we learned this from 2001: A Space Odessy

>>Young Justice cartoon proposed that ancient aliens were responsible for Egyptian temples. Similarly, during the first and only season of Green Lantern: The Animated Series aliens were responsible for the archaeological ruins of an ancient temple. Even Disney’s Phineas and Ferb suggested aliens built the pyramids.

Didn't Stargate (both the movie and TV series) teach us that? Weren't they taught that by EvD and others?

>>>Perhaps this is why more recent ancient astronaut claims have backed away from actual spaceships and real aliens toward a more nebulous “non-human intelligence” penetrating our dimension from a vaguely-defined other reality via misunderstood properties of quantum mechanics

You, of course, mean the Red 'lectroid from across the 8th Dimension. Their existence and evil plots were exposed in the documentary "Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension". I have to assume that the government is suppressing the Oscillating Overthruster and are hiding it with the Ark of the Covenant in that secret warehouse we all know about.

What's old is new again....

Who was it that said that all that could be imagined has already been imagined and everything else is just derivative?

Reply
Jason Colavito link
4/16/2013 12:54:48 pm

I doubt many kids are watching 2001: A Space Odyssey. Of course these ideas have been recycled in fiction time and again. They appear in H. P. Lovecraft in the 1930s and in Garrett P. Serviss's Edison's Conquest of Mars in 1898. The theme can be traced back to Lucian's True History from Antiquity in which Greeks travel to the moon and find an ancient alien civilization. I wasn't trying to suggest the cartoons were anything new, only that it was suprising that so many shows aimed at young kids were including the ancient astronaut theme at roughly the same time.

Reply
Thane
4/16/2013 01:32:04 pm

Understood, Jason. It was just pointing out that it's all derivative.

Why are these things in cartoons for kids? Lazy writers. No real thought has to be put into the story-lines. It's an easy set piece or background...a vignette.

"Hey! we need a new story for this kid's cartoon ages 7 to 12. What do they like?"

"Boys or girls?"

"eh...the demo for this show skews male."

"Ok.. dinosaurs.....and ancient egyptians. All the kids like pyramids and the sphinx."

"But what would dinosaurs be doing with pyramids."

"Yeah, that is a little far-fetched. Let's leave the dinosaurs for the lost temple in the jungle and forgotten civilization set piece."

"Yeah, that makes sense...but we need something more than pyramids. I mean, they don't do anything.. they just sit there."

"Good point. What else do boys 7 to 12 like....hmmmmm...

"Oh! I know! Aliens! like in star wars and ET! The same but different because THESE aliens are like the ancient eygtians.. so they all wear the funky hats and stuff but have ray guns!"

"And they pyramids are like space ships!"

"Yeah! They TOTALLY fly?!

"We've got a winner with this one!"

and so on.....

Varika
4/16/2013 03:46:40 pm

Oh, Thane. Thane, Thane, Thane. They would NEVER say "that is a little far-fetched." They would probably say, "Eh, that was done in the 90s," though. Because. It was. Alien dinosaurs from the alternate Earth directly behind the sun from here. Who lived in pyramidal buildings. And had ray guns. And clearly Egyptian-influenced clothing.

It was called "Dinosaucers."

I'm waiting for 2020 to see it come out again under a new name. By then, the 90s will be "retro" instead of "OH GOD WHY," just like the 80s is now.

Jim
4/16/2013 06:19:12 pm

Buckaroo Banzai changed my life. I wanted to join the Hong Kong Cavaliers when I grew up... I still do.

Reply
Thane
4/17/2013 04:28:34 am

@Jim

I adore Buckaroo Banzai and also wanted to be part of his team....
I was so disappointed they never made the alleged sequel "Buckaroo Banzai vs. The World Crime League."

::sigh::

@Varika

Thank you. I have learned something new today. I never saw that cartoon but through Star Blazers I learned to be wary of comets since they can be the home of interstellar conquerors like the Comet Empire. On the other hand, as Rocket Robin Hood taught us, they could, in the guise of free-ranging rogue planets, be home to devil-may care good-guy outlaws fighting the evil Prince John or whoever is on the galactic throne these days.

PaulN. link
2/9/2014 08:33:39 pm

Naw, you can't beat the popcorn classic cliff-hanger serial trio of Buck Rodgers. Flash Gordon, and Commando Cody. Keep stoking those radium fires.

titus pullo
4/16/2013 01:27:28 pm

The vast distances between stars is something ancient alien folks always pass over. Problem is few of them studied physics. Accelerating to a speed close to the speed of light demands engines the size of small moons and as you get close your mass goes infinite..in other words you can't build a craft that can go light speed (even light speed would take years, decades or centuries or beyond to go between suns). Einstein's special theory of realitivty does allow that the faster you go the slower time goes by between you and say someone on earth....so if you could survive a thousand year journey with only maybe decades (I haven't done the math on this for 25 years) gone by for you. But unless you have a very long life expectancy..its a one way journey to a solar system that might be lifeless. Ramjets, nuclear fission pulse (the original orion concept..dropping h bombs and riding the pulse wave), or fusion engines could get a spacecraft say 10% the speed of light..but its still along way to go.

So the alien folks default to hoary theories of worm holes...black holes and so on...heck if a race were that advanced..they wouldn't be flying around today in flying saucers blinking lights at some good old boys drinking around a campfire.

The problem is we have no idea if there is life anywhere by earth. Even the supposed "experts" astrobiologists (which is perhaps the most ridiculous claim to be a biologist for alient life since none has ever been found) are clueless on this. The Fermi equation is a great example of the problem. the universe could be full up or just us. Fermi once said.."if there is so much life in the universe..how come they haven't come yet"...and he is right. For that matter what is life? The bios say it is a self replicating organism...ok. The more I look at any life form on earth the more I am amazed at its complexity and uniqueness. We know more about the universe than life. And who knows what life could be like elsewhere. Carbon based..probably but who knows (Carbon is really the best modecule for life due to its electron orbitals and bonds). And could we even communicate with other life? I have no idea on what my dog is thinking...and we think we can communicate with aliens? Why would they even visit or "help" us?

I think there was this great belief in extra earth life as we started to launch rockets and explore space. We transfered our own humanism to the stars...the romance of traveling long distances to find other star travelers and so on....

And after spending billions listening to the stars..we still have no evidence of aliens..maybe they exist maybe they don't..but coming here in prehistory to "aid" mankind...don't think so.

Reply
Jim
4/16/2013 06:55:57 pm

>>>The Fermi equation is a great example of the problem.

Sorry to nitpick your post, titus pullo, but the Drake equation is used to calculate how many civilizations are expected to be in the universe, and the Fermi Paradox points out the discrepancy between the presumed amount of intelligent life based on the universe's size and age against the lack of evidence thereof. More thorough descriptions can be found at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

We have just barely scratched the surface in searching for extra terrestrial life. I think it is highly likely that it is out there, and we may even find evidence of it one day; however, it is naive and egocentric to think that they have come here in the past only to erect stone monoliths or in contemporary times to flit around just out of sight in brightly blinking UFOs so they can abduct and sodomize humans, mutilate our cattle, and draw circles in our crops. Besides, all of these things can be explained by the subterranean lizard men.

Reply
Tara Jordan
4/16/2013 07:19:55 pm

The special relativity equations aren't that complicated at all.
Mass(v) = Rest mass/(1 - v/c)^1/2
when v=c, mass is infinite


Reply
Jim
4/17/2013 03:41:42 am

Tara,
Velocity and the speed of light (v and c respectively) need to be squared in your formula.

M = m / (1 - V^2 / c^2)^1/2
M = relativistic mass
m = rest mass
V = velocity
c = speed of light.

Paul Cargile
4/17/2013 02:59:11 am

To add to that and under the assumption that no apparant FLT mechanism like warp fields or wormholes are used, the problem with time dilation makes interstellar mining a futile task.

Back to the gold mining theory, if the aliens are traveling close to the speed of light, for the travelers, even vast distances will crossed in as short a time as months, but for thier world or Earth, thousands to millions of years will have passed, which makes it late getting that gold. Traveling slower so that time dilation effects are managable, also means a long a cruise, for both the travelers and the worlds, which also makes it late getting that gold.

Another thing that our space exploration has proven is that using and sending robots is easier and cheaper. Advanced races are going to know this too. It is therefore more likely small, intelligent machines will be our first visitors.

Reply
The Other J.
4/17/2013 05:30:21 pm

Not to mention they'd find far more gold that's far more accessible in the asteroid belt. No need to come here, create a hybrid alien-ape race, and operate a slave state in order to get what they need.

Jim
4/17/2013 07:18:53 am

Time dilation is calculated with the formula
t' = t(1 - V^2 / c^2)^1/2
t' = dilated time
t = stationary time
V = velocity
c = speed of light

If you are calculating with velocities represented as fractions of the speed of light, then you can replace V and c with a ratio. So to calculate time dilation at 0.95c (95% the speed of light):
=1 * (1 - 95^2 / 100^2)^1/2
=1 * (1 - 9025/10000)^1/2
=1 * (1 - 0.9025)^1/2
=1 * (0.0975)^2
=0.3122 = 31.22%

Let's ignore the required energy issue for a moment and assume that we find a way to tap into dark energy, thus eliminating the need to carry our own fuel, and that we have designed engines capable of bringing us to nearly light speed. The closest verified earth-like exoplanet in the habitable zone is 23.6ly away. If we travel at .95c then it will take 23.6ly/.95c=24.8 years stationary time. Accounting for time dilation, only 7.74 years will pass inside the spaceship. But this ignores acceleration and deceleration.

We'll continue to assume we have a dark energy engine and we will accelerate at a constant 1g for the first half of the trip, then turn the ship around decelerate at 1g for the second half of the trip. This will allow us to have a comfortable environment inside the spaceship without turning our squishy innards to a bloody smear on the interior wall of the space ship. The formula to calculate how many years a trip like this will take is time in years = 1.94 arccosh (n/1.94 + 1) where n is the number of light years traveled (source: http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/mirrors/physicsfaq/Relativity/SR/rocket.html). This works for distances less than 1 billion light years; go over that distance and you need to account for the expansion of the universe. Because we are using constant acceleration we will be traveling faster than the example above, and the dilated time inside the space ship is only 6.34 years, 25.48 in stationary years. Using a constant acceleration spaceship the limiting factor becomes acceleration.

There is a website for science fiction authors to help with the required math (http://www.cthreepo.com/lab/math1/), just plug in the numbers and press enter. We can use this site to calculate the time it would take to reach the Andromeda Galaxy (2,560,000ly away) in our 1g constant acceleration rocket. The good news is that it only takes 28.67 years on the space ship! The bad news is that it would take 2,561,774 stationary years for us waiting back on Earth.

So even if aliens were able to overcome the massive energy and propulsion requirements for interstellar travel, they still couldn't get around relativity without special pleading (i.e. warp drive, worm holes, etc...). While it is conceivable that the alien astronauts could endure the trip to their far-off destination of Earth, unless they were *very* close then the time that passed on their home world would mean that many millions of years would pass before they could report back the results of their anal probing program.

Reply
titus pullo
4/17/2013 01:11:03 pm

Jim,

Nice job..I had to pull out my old modern physics book to remember the special rel. equations..
I think you have outlined the problems of travel even getting up to a higher percentag of light speed. So then it becomes "worm holes" and 'rotating black holes" and so on to try and explain how aliens got here...
I believe most of the ancient alien supporters don't understand the difficulty in that step up from "brute" force method (even with time dilation) and creating artifical worm holes or whatnot.

And yes I did make a mistake on my earlier post..I meant the Drake equation....problem is we don't have any idea of the probablities of the various variables....

hey I'd like to think we have a full up universe with lots of aliens and warp drive and a federation and all that....but me thinks it is a very lonely place...our oasis of life as the Apollo guys said stand in the void...that in itself is a scary thought...and yet we fight over idiotic things on earth...very sad

Jim
4/17/2013 04:16:16 pm

Titus,
I figured you knew the difference between the Drake equation and Fermi paradox. I had pointed that out more for the reference of others who might not know; I hope you weren't offended. In any event, the Drake equation falls more in the realm of philosophy than science in my opinion since, as you correctly point out, we can only speculate what the value of most the variables might be. It's a fun thought experiment to ponder, but it really doesn't get us any closer to determining how saturated with life the universe might be.

I always thought it would be interesting if we found definitive evidence of an advanced civilization a few thousand light years or so away. The knowledge of their existence combined with our inability to do anything about it, or even know if their civilization was still existant, would be a frustrating reality to adjust to.

Unfortunately, if we ever did find evidence of extraterrestrial life, even if it were just microbes, then the AATs would use that as proof of their hypothesis of ancient visitation/intervention.

Paul Cargile
4/18/2013 02:35:25 am

I've used cthreepio for my own fiction. Wonderful resource.

Coridan Miller
4/17/2013 01:06:28 am

I prefer X-Men Evolution, where the pyramids were built with technology from the future!

Reply
The Other J.
4/17/2013 06:08:55 pm

I first saw 2001 when I was 8 years old, and loved it. Guess that makes me an outlier. (I was running a terrible fever, though -- which may be the way to properly experience the film.)

As long as you're cataloging ancient alien oddities in comics, don't forget Jack Kirby's face on Mars. He did a comic about a giant face monolith on Mars being explored by astronauts, and it turns out the face is an entrance to a hidden civilization.

Kirby's face does look suspiciously similar to the fuzzy Viking images of a face on Mars, except Kirby's face is upright -- as if a colossus was buried up to its neck, not face-up like the Viking Mars face. But Kirby did his comic in 1958, almost 20 years prior to the Viking mission and the controversy its face images kicked off.

But here's the thing: There are people who will argue that Kirby was tapping into something, whether it was his own psychic tendencies or some greater intelligence using him to prime the public to be more receptive to what showed up on the Viking images. Kirby never said that, but others have, reading backwards into an accidental echo of images and seeing more meaning than it holds.

Likewise for other pop culture creators, like Stanley Kubrick (see the recent documentary about The Shining, Room 237 for an example of that), Philip K. Dick, or even J.R.R. Tolkien (it seems Tolkien's creation myth in The Silmarillion bears a striking resemblance to a Gnostic creation myth that Tolkien would most likely not have had access to nor a translation of).

That some people find more meaning in some cultural work than is warranted by the work itself is nothing new (hi Lost fans). What is new is the kind of feedback loop established by social media and the web. As people think they've found evidence that Kubrick admits he faked the moon landings in The Shining, or that Kirby prepped the population for alien encounters by getting them ready to understand the face on Mars, they publish their findings online, a community grows around the ideas, and the producers of pop culture (comics, cartoons, pseudo-documentaries) identify a market to which they can speak. When those ideas are in turn reflected back to the community via new cultural products, the community sees that as verification, that they're on the right track, and that Hollywood or Marvel or Random House is sending them a coded message.

It's a much more complicated form of pareidolia, and more interesting than seeing the Virgin Mary in a side of toast.

Reply
Christopher Randolph
4/18/2013 09:55:26 am

I read a great interview with a respected physicist (if I can locate the book I'll add detail) in an otherwise largely useless UFO essay collection printed in about 1980 in which he pointed out that (aside from as mentioned above) the radioactivity one would expect to find from fuels, interstellar travelers would be subject to incredible amounts of radioactivity inside the craft simply by moving through that much space with even average amounts of background radiation so quickly. He figured that even should the problems of fueling these trips be overcome, the fatal radiation accumulation on these trips would be a whole other huge hurdle. I recall the physicist being the one skeptical voice in the book.


Reply
Kat
4/23/2013 12:26:57 pm

My father dug at Giza back in the 60's, in approximately the location where the movie "Stargate" found the stargate. What most people seem to ignore is that each pyramid is the center of an enormous temple complex - "The Mummy Returns" actually opens with rather a nice CGI reconstruction of such a place, although IIRC for some reason they had Pharaoh living there, which would not have been the case. The associated remains make it pretty clear what was going on around the pyramids.

The alien folks also seem to overlook things like the Step Pyramid, which clearly reveals the origin of the pyramid shape out of the older masteba tomb that preceded it. Pyramids started out as one masteba stacked on top of another, and another, and another; and later, with an outer sheathing of pretty limestone. There is even the Bent Pyramid, which shows you what happens when Pharaoh dies before his pyramid was ready (or, possibly, what happens when you miscalculate your materials and find if you keep going on as you were, the whole thing would collapse, depends who you ask).

The Egyptian pyramids have a completely different architectural origin and function from the pyramids of the Americas. I can't, off the top of my head, remember for sure if they have any common origins with the Babylonian ziggurat, but my memory suggests not. Again, totally different function.

You probably already knew all that. But the whole thing just makes me a little crazy.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
4/23/2013 01:54:26 pm

It never hurts to be reminded just how much evidence ancient astronaut speculators ignore in creating their "theories."

Reply
Joe
4/26/2013 02:32:51 pm

I recently came across your website and want to applaud you for your efforts in talking about the misrepresentation and errors on Ancient Aliens. Even ignoring the major problems in interstellar travel that were outlined in the above comments. It is really frustrating to watch these people jump around to different cultures to stitch together their "theory".

On the TV show comment, I would imagine that most of these writers grew up watching sci-fi shows and reading sci-fi books. It is expected for them to rehash subjects they experienced before. But it does create a problem when these children start to treat them like fact.

Reply
tonyon
12/8/2015 03:07:16 pm

when aliens will come to Earth...goodbye religion and all its Lies

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