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Ancient Aliens S04E10: Aliens and Dinosaurs

5/5/2012

77 Comments

 
I have no idea how to review this. There. I said it. This is so stupid that I am at a complete and total loss to make coherent sense out of the stupidity in this episode, not the least of which is the simultaneous claims that dinosaurs were killed off by aliens 65 million years ago but were also alive to walk with humans at some unspecified more recent date. This is the episode that told us that the aliens negotiated with fish, and it is the episode relying for evidence on at least three long-debunked claims as though they were real.

We begin with the discovery of dinosaur fossils in the early nineteenth century and a brief review of what dinosaurs are and how they lived from real scientists. This is filler. Then Philip Coppens tells us how dinosaurs are “to some extent supernatural creatures,” and David Childress tells us that “everything was gigantic” in the past—which is not true. Many things were giant, yes, but mammals were small.

Almost a quarter of the way in, we finally get to the aliens. Jason Martell says we don’t know where dinosaurs came from—implying outer space. Apparently evolution escapes him. PowerPoint presentation author Giorgio Tsoukalos says that because the age of dinosaurs is a thousand times longer than that of humans “dinosaurs are by far the dominant species in the history of this earth,” which is false on two counts: first, dinosaurs are not a species but many species, not all of which lived simultaneously; second, they didn’t “rule” the earth in a literal sense. If being the paramount predator for a long period makes a species dominant, then the first single-celled amoeba-like predators that happily ate other cells for the first billion years of life must be the most successfully dominant “species” using Tsoukalos’ wildly inaccurate definition.

Tsoukalos then suggests that prior to the early nineteenth century, no one would have believed giant creatures roamed the earth, implying that we are in a similar position today in denying the existence of aliens. This is again false. Prior to the nineteenth century, people believed in all manner of gigantic, imaginary beasts, not least of which were the biblical Leviathan and Behemoth, which creationists often wrongly call dinosaurs. Other monsters include dragons, themselves possibly derived from early sightings of dinosaur bones.

So, were dinosaurs an “early experiment” by the aliens, as Tsoukalos claims? It would mean the aliens spent 150 million years working on it. That takes commitment. But even if they weren’t genetically engineered, ancient astronaut theorists are fairly certain that aliens killed off the dinosaurs, possibly by sending the asteroid that caused the Cretaceous-Tertiary (K-T) boundary event. Oddly enough, Ancient Aliens makes no mention of the surviving dinosaurs—birds—at this point because this does not fit into their imaginary story of vengeful aliens wiping clean the earth like God and Enlil in the Flood myth. The birds will come much later when viewers are presumed to have forgotten the completely contradictory material from this segment.

David Childress, noting that the K-T asteroid struck in the Yucutan, then asks:

Quote
You have to wonder if it’s not some sort of strange coincidence that the same spot, the Yucatan, which experienced this devastating asteroid strike which caused extinction of the dinosaurs is also the main habitation area of the ancient Maya.

No, you don’t. No matter where an asteroid hit on the land surface of the earth, an ancient people would be living near it. There were people almost everywhere on earth, just as there are today. Try to find a spot in the habitable area of the earth that did not have someone living on or near it sometime between 100,000 BCE and 1500 CE. Having people living 65 million years later on a buried asteroid crater is hardly news. People were living atop Herculaneum in Italy for centuries without realizing there was a buried Roman city under their feet—and that was hardly a 65 million year gap.

So we move on to Chichen Itza, a post-Classic Maya site (meaning it is very late—1000 CE or later), and here Philip Coppens claims that the Maya built there to remember the asteroid, which is impossible. Why would the Maya wait until after their civilization collapsed to build, with the help of the Toltec, supposedly the most important site in their cosmology?

Here is a Maya “dinosaur” that Childress says defies explanation. It’s a lizard or a snake. Apparently “ancient astronaut theorists” don’t know that earth still has some of those around.

Lizard
This lizard doesn't have feathers, so the show waits to tell us dinosaurs had feathers until after we've forgotten this.
Similarly, sculptures of serpents are also just that: exaggerated snakes. I will grant, however, that the carving on Angkor Wat’s Ta Prohm temple looks like a stegosaurus at first glance. This would be the first interesting thing they’ve shown, had the Smithsonian not debunked this in 2009. Like many other medallions on the temple, this one shows an animal against a backdrop of leaves—not bony plates on the spine. It’s a rhinoceros walking through the jungle. The key is the other “bony plates” surrounding the medallion—clearly meant to depict jungle leaves. Naturally Giorgio Tsoukalos claims this is evidence that the artist drew the stegosaurus from alien descriptions.

Stegosaurus
Note the "bony spikes" (actually leaves) surrounding the medallion as well as the rhinoceros at center.
David Icke—him who believes Queen Elizabeth and George H. W. Bush are lizard people—shows up to suggest that serpent worship reflects reptilian aliens, backed up by Michael Bara. The ancient astronaut theorists, so quick to say that any smudge that looks like a saucer is a UFO, tells us that we have to “interpret” images that are clearly snakes to turn them into dinosaurs.

Then we go on to Glen Rose, Texas and the long-debunked claim that human footprints alongside those of dinosaurs. Michael Cremo and William E. Dye—both creationists, Hindu and Christian respectively—can tell us these are real, but that still doesn’t make this decades-old hoax true. Especially clever is the way the show avoids using the more familiar name for the tracks, the Paluxy footprints, to keep viewers from being able to look them up and see how fake they are.

Philip Coppens then tells us again that some dinosaurs must have survived the K-T boundary event. Yes, they did. They are called BIRDS. The show will discuss these later, after squeezing all the potential out of the "mystery" they are self-creating.

About carbon dating, which is completely irrelevant, as even the show recognizes briefly before immediately forgetting again. Carbon dating can only be used for objects up to about 60,000 years old. This is a far cry from the 65 million years of the youngest dinosaur fossils. Fossils, as we know, are not organic objects. Fossil bones have become stones. This doesn’t stop Philip Coppens from complaining that carbon dating of dinosaur bones doesn’t appear in peer-reviewed journals (well, duh…) and therefore science is engaged in a conspiracy to suppress the truth about dinosaur survival into historical times. Even if dinosaurs survived “thousands or even millions” of years after the K-T boundary event, this changes history exactly how? They would still all be dead 60-63 million years before humans.

Next: The Ica Stones! These are so fake I won’t bother to even review them. Just read the Skeptic’s Dictionary entry on them. Note that the “dinosaurs” show only dinosaur species known in the 1960s, as they were depicted in that era, without feathers. William E. Dye, creationist, confuses “Ica” and “Inca” and claims the Inca rode dinosaurs to work on the basis of the stones.

But apparently we can’t fill out an hour with just dinosaurs, so we instead go on to sci-fi speculation about what would happen if asteroids hit the earth today, followed by rather dull discussion of the asteroid that hit at the K-T boundary event. This becomes enlivened when the narrator suggests aliens used nuclear weapons around the world to destroy the dinosaurs. The evidence is that dinosaur bones are radioactive, which Michael Bara says is due to alien nuclear bombs. It is in fact due to the fact that the bones fossilized in sediments rich with carnotite—a uranium-bearing ore, meaning that the bones soaked up uranium and turned into uranium-rich stone. This is not a mystery or a conspiracy and is well documented in the scientific literature.

Jason Martell tells us that the Mahabharata describes the mass extermination of giant lizards, and the on-screen images show asteroids pummeling diplodocuses. However, in the actual ancient text, this is not at all what happens. In one passage, Arjuna battles a giant crocodile—which is clearly stated to live in the water, not on land. The crocodile then turns into a beautiful woman. Additionally, the giant lizards, where they appear, occur with “countless beasts of gigantic size, and stags, and monkeys, and lions, and buffaloes, and aquatic animals” (Vana Parva CXLV). This does not sound at all like dinosaurs when placed in context—just the usual exaggeration of heroic deeds common in myth.

Michael Cremo lies about “advanced technology such as spacecraft” in the Indian texts, something I discussed previously; and Tsoukalos lies about “weapons of mass destruction” in the Mahabharata. He is paraphrasing the FAKE QUOTES I exposed a long time ago as utterly and completely false. Repetition does not suddenly make them true.

Finally! Birds! Nice of them to acknowledge well-established science as the show grinds toward its conclusion; however, they are wrong that Archaeopteryx is the “only” dinosaur that could fly,. There are many birdlike dinosaurs known. Seriously, does anyone bother to do even cursory research? It was in National Geographic, for crying out loud. But, apparently, it is not enough to say that humans were genetically engineered by aliens. Apparently they also genetically engineered birds, too, “as many ancient astronaut theorists believe.”

“According to evolution, all dinosaurs are died out about sixty millions of years,” Erich von Daniken states. “So the question is why only the dinosaurs died?” Evolution is not a book; it is a theory, and it makes no such claim. He is also wrong that “only” dinosaurs died out in the K-T extinction. Many species of plants and invertebrates also became extinct. It is the largest animals—the non-avian dinosaurs—that suffered the greatest losses because they were, well, biggest and ran out of food fastest when the plants died.

Much hay is made of the fact that the coelacanth, a large fish, survived from prehistoric times even though humans thought it had gone extinct millions of years ago. (It had a good hiding place—the bottom of the ocean.) Tsoukalos states that “I think it is possible that the coelacanth survived due to a direct guarantee by extraterrestrials.” They make treaties with fish?! WTF?! Is this some weird thing like when Star Trek IV had aliens communicating with humpback whales? Seriously, though, to whom does he imagine the aliens were making this guarantee? Tsoukalos thinks the aliens—and I can’t possibly make this up—preserved the DNA of coelacanths, turtles, crocodiles, and other sundry animals and cloned them following the mass extinction 65 million years ago and then reintroduced them when it was time to make them some human slaves.

And with that freakish image of ancient aliens negotiating the future of the earth with coelacanths, the episode wheezes to its inglorious conclusion.

77 Comments
Ron Graphman
5/11/2012 02:10:25 pm

Gee whiz ! Can't you have some fun? I have watched every episode of Ancient Aliens.. There were some that did make you say Hmmm.? and there were some that just tickled me to tears... I think you take this stuff too seariously........... It's FUN Man !

Reply
Elian Gonzalez
6/12/2012 06:46:50 pm

See, that's just the problem: it's not even a guilty pleasure because of the gnawing sense that the show takes itself seriously, that these clinically insane people are "experts" and that people are going to start accepting these ideas. Campy stuff can be fun, but this show passed that point long ago.

Reply
Tribeca Mike
5/11/2012 06:17:38 pm

I had much more fun reading this review than from watching the episode. Thanks for the info and the laughs.

Reply
Ryan
5/13/2012 08:09:20 pm

Thank you Jason for restoring my faith in humanity.

I like to keep an open mind with this kind of stuff but my interest has since waned after subjecting myself to this drivel. I now watch ancient aliens to help get me to sleep and a few giggles.

What concerns me the most is the fact that the reputable History channel is peddling this junk which makes it look more credible.

Reply
Jeremy
1/9/2015 10:03:40 am

I miss the Hitler Channel days. At least that was real history.

Reply
emerson
5/17/2012 08:52:27 am

Lol I like how alot of people are mad about this.....this show never claims to be scientific fact. Its all theory, and theory is fun. How about Einstein? Everyone thought he was nuts and laughed at him for his THEORIES, he was eventually able to prove them. Ancient Aliens is a fun show to watch and it brings alot of interesting points of view. What ifs are the main topics on the show, they never say this is fact. Like for instance what if alot of those paintings of the GODS were really mis-interpretation , after all how would someone someone that lived 5000 years ago explain a piece of technology we have today? How would an ancient Egyptian explain someone with a T.V and a remote control? In my own opinion I think they would use what they know to try and explain it. Its just a theory and a possibility that is fun to consider, get over it. Good job history channel

Reply
Elian Gonzalez
6/12/2012 06:55:00 pm

People did not think Einstein was "nuts," and in science, a theory is a fact, not a hunch or idea as it's used in everyday conversation (”I have a theory why men don't ask for directions”). And the bigger problem is the consistent denigration of what is a fact (the word "mainstream" can't be spit out fast enough as a curse word here). It's no longer fun, but troubling.

Reply
Martin
10/11/2013 12:04:15 pm

A theory is not a "fact". In science, a fact is something that can be directly observed. (See for example Graciano and Raulin "Research methods"..)

Martin
10/11/2013 12:05:07 pm

A theory is not a "fact". In science, a fact is something that can be directly observed. (See for example Graciano and Raulin "Research methods"..).

Hmm..I wonder if this post will get posted, I get an error message..

Martin
10/11/2013 12:05:17 pm

A theory is not a "fact". In science, a fact is something that can be directly observed. (See for example Graciano and Raulin "Research methods"..).

Hmm..I wonder if this post will get posted, I get an error message...

Martin
10/11/2013 12:06:33 pm

A theory is not a "fact". In science, a fact is something that can be directly observed. (See for example Graciano and Raulin "Research methods"..).

Hmm..I wonder if this post will get posted, I get an error message....

Martin
10/11/2013 12:07:24 pm

A theory is not a "fact". In science, a fact is something that can be directly observed. (See for example Graciano and Raulin "Research methods"..).

Hmm..I wonder if this post will get posted, I get an error message.....

Jason Colavito link
10/11/2013 12:21:08 pm

I think you can see that it posted, and there is no conspiracy to suppress your comments. It's just a hiccup in the Weebly comments software.

Jason Grau
11/28/2015 03:40:06 am

The most unintelligent thing I've read, thus far, " in science theory Is fact.". You could not be more wrong. Theories changed all the time because they are not fact. Gravity is a theory. Gravity Is not a fact. Quantum Physics is rewritting all the physics books.

INSAAN FARID link
5/9/2013 03:41:21 am

All new ideas and inventions take birth from some fantasy story of yesteryears. Creatures give shapes and colours to existing materials. If one goes thru Book of Ezekiel in the old testament, one will be sure to find the lucid description of an alien ship with advance technology. Let everybody gain from gods book instead of fuming like the devils creatures

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Jack
3/11/2014 03:32:59 pm

Please use the word "theory" correctly. In the scientific method theories are supported by many repeatable experiments and data so that they can be accepted as the most accurate understanding of a topic to date. Meaning they are subject to the scientific method. Ancient Aliens suffers from many of the conflicts with the method that religion does. It's not a theory it's a myth, and should be treated as entertainment. Remember Animal Planet ran a mocumentary about MERMAIDS and people called NOAA concerned they may be harmed (? I was not sure why they had 'concerns' about mermaids) by them,.

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Doug
5/20/2016 03:51:03 pm

People sitting here nit picking words and context. This almost sounds like a legal drama over techinicalities. It sounds just like Ancient Aliens reasoning! They speak like they're in a court of law and must make sure to say everything with an "out" in case they get proved wrong. The problem with this show as I see it is that people do take it sereously. It's presented as if they take themselves serious. It's shown on the History Channel which people still believe is a reputable channel. It's not, it's only concern is making money. They have found a market, you! And now they're letting the inmates run the assilum. I liked the comment above, they are certifiably insane! And they're confusing are children with the drivel they put out. Thank you Jason for taking the time out to do what I think of as a civic duty and exposing the nonsense they're trying to make people believe. Even if you only reach a few people you've done us a service. Again, thanks Jason and keep up the good work.

sanjay goswami
6/13/2012 10:33:16 am

I read the Mahabharata as a child (not in sanskrit btw) and the descriptions of the 'Brahma astra' or the 'Pushpak Vimans' are definitely 'high tech'. But even if the Mahabharata is actual history as opposed to myth, one has to read the story with a grain of salt. The Mahabharata as we have it today has been edited and modified by several authors even in its ancient sanskrit form. So even if Ved Vyas the original author was writing authentic history, the subsequent versions would have fictionalized add-ins by the later editors.

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jason
3/21/2015 03:03:49 am

Ancient alien retards seem to forget that ancient people had the same imaginations we do, I don't read a comic book and say wow stan lee must have really been visited by these characters or else he would of never been able to imagine them, this is proof that comic books are real life

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Jason Grau
11/28/2015 03:44:55 am

Imagination is based off the sensory perceptions, memory and range of possibilities built upon the collective.

Mc
7/26/2013 01:43:29 pm

The theory that life on Earth was destroyed in the past using huge atomic explosions (by extraterrestrials, the Elohim) cames from Rael, in his first book (1974): "the book which tells the truth"

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Jason Colavito link
7/26/2013 01:49:08 pm

Rael was a decade late on that one, borrowing his ideas from Erich von Daniken and Pauwels and Bergier.

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Mc
12/26/2014 12:56:20 pm

Daniken and others before him didn't say that all life on Earth was destroyed by extraterrestrials. I have those books. Daniken references to atomic explosions are only Sodom and Gomorrah, ancient indian cities and such. Rael is the only one who wrote that the cataclysm we know today as the "flood" was caused by a group of extraterrestrials called Elohim, who bombeb Earth using huge atomic explosions, because they thought the humanity they created here was too violent and a creation fail. Fortunately some Elohim didn't agree and decided to save some of our ancestors, including wild life. Later, in a book published in 1979 a raelian scientist put the hypothesis that such explosions could somehow explain the huge amount of oil and coal reserves we have today, because such impacts could bury entire forests in a matter of seconds.

Daniel Xavier Knight aka chosenbygrace link
8/16/2013 05:19:41 pm

"Apparently evolution escapes him" and conveniently you leave out that it escapes hundreds of millions of Christians, tens of millions of Muslims, hundreds of thousands of which are scientists for job, and hundreds of thousands of which are familiar enough with science to know when an attempt at deception is being made. And really Mr. Evolutionist, you don't need to know science in order to debunk a lie or baseless conjecture like evolution theory. Everyone note how blind men like this evolution always fight back with NON-EVIDENCE with NON-SCIENCE but simply refer to evolution as if it's in and of itself magically true, no better than the ancient aliens deceivers. Like Jesus said, "Leave them; they are blind guides [of the blind]. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit." — Matthew 15:13-14 And like the apostle Paul said, "Avoid arguments of ignorance." Evolutionists like this one here have no excuse which even Paul pointed out, because the design in nature is all around them and obviously not "random". There is a pattern to everything and it's clear there is irreducible complexity in all the things God has made and that life is nothing something that can come about by chance, let alone the many things God has programmed into their flesh. Evolutionists have far less excuse now being that the Internet makes it very convenient to find out the truth and what that word even means.

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Jason Colavito link
8/16/2013 11:29:14 pm

You may be a creationist, but even the Pope says evolution is both real and compatible with the Bible, so I wouldn't go projecting your viewpoint onto "hundreds of thousands" of scientists. Besides, are you really trying to say that you support Jason Martell's belief that the Bible was dictated by aliens from Nibiru? That seems much more insulting to God than evolution. You're welcome to your belief, however. So, were the Greys created along with things that creepeth since they are lizard-like?

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Daniel Xavier Knight aka chosenbygrace link
8/16/2013 05:21:40 pm

"Apparently evolution escapes him" and millions of atheists and evolutionists who repeatedly misdefine evolution and prop up evidence for it that makes no sense and doesn't even exist. One moron said to me, "There's bones in museums" another A MUSEUM CURATOR ON THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL SAID, "You get two tigers on an island and they mate, that's evolution." What!? Talk about idiotic and blind!

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Daniel Xavier Knight link
8/16/2013 06:07:22 pm

" not least of which were the biblical Leviathan and Behemoth, which creationists often wrongly call dinosaurs. wow, idiot. So no matter how many eye witnesses tell stories of seeing giant sea creatures and no matter how much archeological evidence which includes countless amounts of fossils on dry land masses including up on the mountains including those giants found buried on a mountain top, moron Jason the God-hater here just pretends no one's ever said anything about any extremely large creatures. What an idiot. An absolute asshole. Asshole boy Jason here suffers from "Insanity of Doubt" an actual mental disorder classified some decades ago but which magically has disappeared from the now atheist dominated version of science. What an ass. "Hi I'm captain so and so with 30 years of experience in the ocean and saw a huge sea serpent"... Jason, "Oh doze creationists who don't believe in evolution oh dey is so wrong and stupids" ... Captain, "Uh sir? Did you hear what I just said?" ... Jason, "ands dey is always linkings big bang to ebdolutions, how comes?" Captain, "Hello, guy with the glasses I'm talking to you here what I said or are you missing your hearing aids?" ... Jason, "N soze yea! Like I watched antient aldiens on hissory chanels again n I saw funny hair Tosoukolous he says diz and it wrongies! Like in middle times um da Christians dins believe in aliens dey believes in silly non creatures like dragons" Captain ... "Sir, are you okay? You seem insane."

Learn to listen Jason instead of convenient ignoring, like the ancient aliens idiots, what doesn't fit into your feelings-based version of reality. And learn what logical fallacies already, your credit thieving atheist friends already collected extensive lists for you to read.

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Brian
8/17/2013 09:45:12 pm

Daniel Xavier Knight's blog is crammed with all kinds of apocalyptic death and horror, dreamed up by only the most disturbed Christians. He's clearly unstable.

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Martin
10/11/2013 12:00:18 pm

While the ancient aliens theorists often break the rule of parsimony you often break the rule of post-popper positivism, for example "this one shows an animal against a backdrop of leaves—not bony plates on the spine. It’s a rhinoceros walking through the jungle.". Expressing truths like that makes you as much of a culprit as the ancient aliens believers (or any religious cult - which sometimes "evolution" is, i.e. it cannot be falsified), and if you don't see that you are not a scientist; please seek a career in politics then.

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Jason Colavito link
10/11/2013 12:19:07 pm

I'm not putting forward a scientific thesis, Martin, nor am I a scientist. I'm expressing my own, better-evidenced view. Under your standard, there is no way to assert what one believes to be truth. That way lies relativism and postmodernism whereby no fact, no matter how clearly established, can be articulated so long as someone somewhere disagrees. But you know that because you're pushing the anti-evolution line on those grounds.

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Martin
10/15/2013 04:36:49 pm

Ancient alien theorists are in most cases not putting forward a scientific thesis either. Under my standard, i.e. a scientific one, all knowledge is temporary, i.e. it can be falsified. Einstein and Popper agreed on this. In contrast, postmodernism deploys subjectivity where popper (or post popper positivism) deploys a strive towards objectivity. It is the postmodernists who knows - because they know and think that they are right - i.e. politics.

Please be humble regarding what you know.. One area where I personally think ancient alien theorists have a point is when it comes to explaining "gods" who always came from the heavens above, or the stars.. Or the 3 wise men who followed a "star" to find jesus in a building... I think the ancient alien theorists explanation is simpler (i.e. more parsimonious) than say, for example, that god created a star and made it point to a building... Jacobs ladder somebody actually supposedly climed down a ladder.. Et cetera. The same theme with beings coming from above keep reappearing all over the world. Is the evidence right in front of you, but you still argue that the world is flat?

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Jason Colavito link
10/15/2013 11:30:10 pm

Better explanation: It's mythology, no more real than Superman or Green Lantern.

Do try finding these stories of beings from above; they are very rare. Mostly the gods live in the ground or on mountains or in the sea.

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Martin
10/16/2013 12:56:43 am

The Dogon people is a well known example. See for example http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mitos_creacion/esp_mitoscreacion_1.htm

As I remember it, the Dogon always claimed to come from an invisible star (not found until later) next to Sirius (A). Later, science discovered Sirius B. It should at least raise an eyebrow or two. Or again, just dismiss as randomness or luck (when does an alternative explanation to randomness become more valid?)

The major world religions are full of beings coming down from above and traveling across the sky; Norse gods, Christianity, Hinduism. To dismiss all these observations as pure lies is a big leap to make. It is interesting to note how the Egypitians, see e.g. The vezire Senmut’s star map, apparently made accurate maps of our solar-system, 4500 years ago (or is it resonable to assume that they are fake).

Jason Colavito link
10/16/2013 01:06:44 am

Later study proved Robert Temple's "Sirius Mystery" was a Western imposition on actual Dogon beliefs. They have no special knowledge of Sirius.

The Norse didn't believe the gods (or demons) live in the sky but in a series of stacked planes both above and below our plane.

Senemut's star map is a map of the visible stars in the sky, not an astronomical map of the solar system.

Martin
10/16/2013 01:21:13 am

Please cite this study who "proved" something as you claim. Scientific studies do not prove.

The Norse (some of them still claim to believe - I live in Sweden). You may always find details such stacked planes, but how to interpret this in terms of physics? Dimensions? Wormholes? It is argued: Thor traveled across the sky in his wagon, as did the "Vimanas". Why not be honest and admit that we just don't Know. I argue - Nothing is gained by refusing to admit what we do not know, and in the contrary, we (as a race) loose.

Yes, a map of the solar system, 4500 years ago..

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Jason Colavito link
10/16/2013 01:27:20 am

Martin, Walter van Beek offered the evidence in "Dogon Restudied" in 1991, in a peer-reviewed journal.

Flying across the sky is not the same as descending from it, no more than an airplane is the same as a rocket.

Before you can "interpret" stacked planes in terms of physics, you must first prove there is something to interpret, otherwise you are arguing in circles by interpreting myth in terms of physics because you assumed myths reflect physics.

So what of underground gods? Do you simply ignore them?

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Martin
10/16/2013 03:44:21 am

I took the liberty of looking as van Beeks article. Have you? I also looked at an article in the same journal I believe who criticizes van Beek. I.e.On the Dogon Restudied by Genevieve Calame-Griaule.

Van Beek tried to replicate in one study, work carried on from 1931-1956.. Then Beek argues because I did not find it, it did not exist. In essence saying that the previsous researcher who spent over 20 years is a liar. Does that seem plausible? Should we attack evolution with the same logic.

Some dogong may be really ignorant, if you ask the average joe about Abraham (in the bible) what can they tell you. Moreover, Islam has grown in that part of the worlds since the last 80 years. Etc. please look at Genevieve Calame-Griaules article.

No, flying is not the same as descending. But the accounts are many. Some may be dismissed as meteors etc., but some we have to deduce "they were lying", or consider "what if". Se for example. http://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/ufo-history2.htm

What is there to interpret includes the examples you just gave on stacked planes. What I am saying is simply - we do not Know.

Humbleness with regard to what we know, please. Otherwise you become a dogmatic.

I don't ignore, I stress that we do not know. As we do not know, lets keep an open mind.

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Jason Colavito link
10/16/2013 03:54:05 am

Are you aware that Van Beek asked one of the original researchers to review his article before publication? The results were bizarre:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/1/post/2012/10/germaine-dieterlen-the-sirius-mystery-and-the-quest-for-truth.html

No subsequent study has yet found any evidence of anomalous Sirius knowledge among the Dogon. So, yes, Marcel Griaule fooled himself into seeing what he wanted to see.

"Open mind" is a rhetorical device to support failed arguments. When one cannot provide facts to support a claim, one then argues that *every* viewpoint should be equally valid, even those that lack factual support. Karl Shuker, a PhD zoologist, once suggested that UFOs were giant flying jellyfish that lived in the upper atmosphere and were only seen on occasion when they turned toward the sun. Shall we be open minded about flying invisible jellyfish, too, even though no invisible jellyfish body has ever fallen to earth?

What belief is so lacking in evidence that you would doubt it?

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Martin
10/16/2013 04:04:14 am

No, every viewpoint is not equally valid. Occams razor / parsimony is deployed, i.e. the simplest explanation if several explanations are possible should prevail, but all scientific knowledge is temporary.

In contrast, for example, religious knowledge may be considered true..

Your beliefs concerning that Griaule fooled himself are not science. I say this not as a believer in that Aliens have been here - I say 50 % chance, as we simply do not know, and there are so may accounts.

I also say this as a researcher and scientist who admire Richard Dawkins, B.F. Skinner et cetera.

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Jason Colavito link
10/16/2013 04:08:31 am

As a scientist you should know that Occam's Razor is not about the "simplest" explanation (that one is always "God did it") but rather the one with the fewest assumptions. The existence of aliens and their ability to travel to earth, encode knowledge, and have that knowledge be preserved for tens of thousands of years is not the most parsimonious option.

At this point, however, we seem to have moved far away from the subject of this blog post, so if you'd like to continue this conversation, please feel free to do so in my discussion forum located in the Forums tab.

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Martin
10/16/2013 04:27:38 am

I don't agree that "god did it" is the simplest explanation at all, as it brings a horde of other questions / assumptions. And I think that you agree. I deploy evolutionary thinking and logic in my own work.

The question becomes one of how to explain the fact that so many accounts of events that can be associated with "aliens" or with something that will overthrow our present paradigm exists. Why assume that all people lie, or that they suffer from mass-hypnosis; i.e. is not the most parsimonious explanation that they may have seen something - there may be something there. -------- Rather than to throw it in the dump right away?

Yes I am fighting dogma in one more forum.

Jason Colavito link
10/16/2013 04:31:09 am

You're the one reading these texts as "associated" with aliens, and that is an assumption based on your own views about the role of imagination, textual criticism (some things are meant symbolically), and so on. Thor can be traced back to the Indo-European storm god, who flies in the sky because that is where the lightning lives, so at which point do you suggest he was an alien? 600 CE, 600 BCE, 6,000 BCE? Are all the storm gods different aliens or all memories of one alien?

Martin
10/16/2013 04:07:56 am

The fight is not between Ancient Aliens theorist and others who put forward other theories - the battle is between the dogmatics/those who use a theory as a religion, and the scientists.

And that fight spans across camps.

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Pakshya
11/1/2013 10:07:45 pm

But what about those diplodocus, sauropod like depictions on ancient art?You haven't explained that here.

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Matt link
11/5/2013 09:16:45 am

Hi Jason,
In this article you mention that Leviathan and Behemoth are misinterpreted by creationists as dinosaurs. What do you propose the bible meant by these terms? I'm a Christian, but the pragmatic side of my brain is always seeking differing points of view.
PS. I love your website and can't believe that the History Channel runs such programs. Like a bad crash on the highway...I must keep watching though!
Thanks
Matt

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Jason Colavito link
11/5/2013 11:21:10 am

The Leviathan is pretty clearly the chaos dragon of Near Eastern myth, like the ones slain by Baal and Marduk. Psalm 74 makes this plain in having God slay it. Its description in Job seems to derive from Egyptian crocodile demons. Behemoth, I feel, is probably an invention meant to be a land counterpart to Leviathan, though many feel its description is derived from a hippopotamus.

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Random Comment
11/28/2013 10:35:41 am

Great Article, with reservations: Some of us enjoy watching 'Ancient Aliens' and also like to read an article like yours debunking all the 'amazing, scientific' information we just heard from Tsoukalos and Von Daniken. I take serious offense at your odd compulsion to depart from the actual purpose of your review to gratuitously and repeatedly slam Christianity/Creationism. "Ancient Aliens" is about Aliens and flying saucers building grand monuments and possibly conducting genetic experiments on earthlings in the distant, prehistoric era. Some, or maybe all of their "theories" & claims may be outright lies, or at best recycled myths and folklore with no credibility. What does this have to do with Christianity? Did a sweet old church organist steal a lollipop from you when you were in kindergarten?" Seriously, for a writer who otherwise seems to have great potential, this nasty habit (of trashing a specific group of ordinary people who could be a friendly part of your reading audience,) severely limits your mass appeal. You departed from reviewing a moronic History Channel show, multiple times, just to bash a separate segment of society. UFO Nuts, Left-Wing Conspiracy Theorists, Right-Wing Conspiracy Theorists, Ancient Alien Theorists, and...Christians? Wait, What??? There are Alex Jones Listeners who are not Christians, There are Tea Party members who are Agnostic. There are UFO believers who are Atheists, There are Right-Wing Republicans who also believe in Aliens, There are Obama voters who go to church every Sunday morning and also watch Ancient Aliens. There are New Age Wackos who like Richard Dawkins. There are people who may potentially read your reviews from every walk of life and faith.Jason Colavito shows a lack of life experience and maturity to constantly slip in irrelevant jabs at Christians and Creationists, when "Ancient Alien Theorists" are the commentators on the show. Since this episode was about an incident involving a meteor 65 million yrs ago, I was not surprised when none of the "experts" mentioned God, Jesus, the Pope, or a Church. I WAS surprised, however, that you managed to snidely throw it in about once every paragraph. Like I said, you (and maybe other commentators here) may have suffered some horrible childhood trauma perpetrated by someone, leading you to a blinding hatred of anyone you classify as "christian," however your writing will be far more professional when you focus on the subject, and cut out the irrelevant, off-topic railings and hate speech. Disrespect this word to the wise if you like, but if you have issues with sacred traditions, people of faith, and sweet little old ladies who play hymns on church organs, you should express these dark musings separately in another blog, maybe entitled "Why I Hate Christians," rather than trying so hard to squeeze it into an article about UFOs.

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Jason Colavito link
11/28/2013 10:44:04 am

I'm afraid I don't understand your comment. Creationists and Christians are not synonymous, and I complained about creationists, not Christians. I even specifically identified Michael Cremo, whom I criticize by name, as a HINDU creationist. The reason creationism crops up in my reviews is because ancient astronauts are a variant on the intelligent design idea, with aliens in place of God. Both share the same opposition to evolution.

I can't see that I made any other reference to Christianity, unless you are choosing to interpret any reference to modern science (including evolution) as "bashing" Christians.

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Phillip McGregor
12/2/2013 02:41:36 pm

Jason,

As a Christian, I fully agree with your response to "random comment." I appreciate your reviews and have learned much by further research. If I were to criticize any of your reviews, I think you play racism up too much. That being said, thank you for your efforts to show the History Channel and H2 are devoted more to fiction than fact.

I remember years ago when viewers complained that they were the Hitler Channel and needed to explore other areas. Little did we know it would lead to the tripe broadcast today.

Ed
1/23/2014 09:23:17 pm

While I enjoy the Ancient Aliens programs they often suffer from the need to fill an entire hour based on a few odd of unexplained questions. Things like the Nazca lines, megalithic structures ,odd stone carvings, strange ancient texts, etc. A lot of these examples are thought provoking but unfortunately the subsequent "analysis" often as not spins off into wild conjecture and fantasy. That said I have all so learned to take what mainstream science has to say on a lot of subjects. The trick is to recognize when science stop looking for truth and starts to defend a paradigm. If a theory or hypothesis is having to "work to hard" to keep from being wrong ,it probably is wrong.
Often as not a new way of thinking about something can lead to a better understanding of a phenomenon, however if this threatens the existing paradigm then the old guard will fight back, not to defend truth but for career, reputation and money.
Like someone said in an earlier post, just because someone reports something unusual or seemingly " unbelievable", our immediate reaction should never dismissive or attempt to discredit the witness based purely on our own experience or prejudices. Sadly we have become conditioned to treat anything that is beyond our own experience or outside of the accepted collective wisdom of science. Like Shakespeare said "“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

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CHF01
9/30/2014 08:55:41 am

Well said.

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Dr. William Richards
1/29/2014 09:22:06 am

Well, there are depiction of ancient Incan art of dinosaurs. You can't just pretend that they're not there. Even in ancient East Asian legends.

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Harrison James Clark
1/29/2014 09:27:09 am

Well that is true, there is no ignoring ancient evidence. Also, there is no proof that one species can turn into another species, but only changes in between members of the same species. What are the chances that all living beings can be classified into their own species, without any isolate individual living beings from random mutations. And how come all life comes from the same living things. Why weren't there different beginnings of life at different places on Earth?

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Jason Colavito link
1/29/2014 09:27:21 am

Are you referring to the notorious Ica Stones hoax? Also: Chinese dragons aren't dinosaurs.

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Dr. William Richards
1/29/2014 09:33:50 am

How is the Inca Stones a hoax? You know what is a hoax, those hominid skeletons. They're just ancient ape species that are now extinct. No proof that there is any connection between the hominids. Their genetic code is found to similar to modern day apes. Also, genetic test have shown that humans are born as believers in God, how can deny studies done in Oxford University?

Harrison James Clark
1/29/2014 09:35:54 am

Anything that goes against natural selection is called as hoax. They don't ever study them and if they do, it is ignored by the scientific community.

Jason Colavito link
1/29/2014 09:37:35 am

"Ica" not "Inca." And I'm going to close down the discussion here as per my new comments policy of 1/24/14. Creationism is off-topic for this post about dinosaurs.

Jared Stevenson
9/25/2016 10:43:48 am

That is definitly a stegosaur.you need glasses mr.jason .rhinos do not have huge tails either. do you have a high school education even? Does not sound like it.

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Marcus
11/10/2016 03:57:54 am

If it's a stegosaur, how do you explain the very large head? Stegosauroids had very SMALL heads; if I *was* going to try to claim that creature was a dinosaur, it'd be more like some hornless ceratopsian, than a stegosauroid.

Dr. William Richards
1/29/2014 09:29:13 am

Well its the best theory we can propose so far. Just because we don't have proof of macro-evolution, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

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None
1/29/2014 09:38:26 am

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Alex
10/4/2014 04:14:34 am

And the world was flat according to most scientists until it was proven round

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Gaia
11/19/2014 01:21:56 pm

Your too biased against the idea to retain any credible argument.. Evolution has holes in it that I doubt youl ever see because "scientific fact" is the normal way of thinking today.. go back 200 years and almost everyone believed in the various religions.. religion was the normal way of thinking back then... Theres no way we can even get perspective of how the first people thought because we don't even know who they were. Theres actually proof that people aren't as clever as they used to be 100 years ago and supposedly humans are getting dumber over time. Our modern intelligence is based on history as we have recorded or what we can prove with current technology... Are you really going to assume we know everything about our past already? Have we never in the span that humans have been around. never had anything similar to the science we have now, no one has ever discovered any technology before? That is a truly ridiculous claim.

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Chad Sparks
1/3/2015 06:59:21 am

"Theres actually proof that people aren't as clever as they used to be 100 years ago and supposedly humans are getting dumber over time."

Yes, just see: Idiocracy.

I kid of course, but I believe this to actually be true to some extent. As a whole, we have "dumbed down" though on individual levels, we have rocketed forward. I believe the dumbing down is due to the lack of reading compared to then. But alas. The ancients were certainly NOT stupid. We still can't even explain how they did some many things (megalithic structures and stones).

On topic: I enjoy the show, as a laugh. Particularly their absolute lack of objectivity. It's a clear marker for me to dismiss almost everything that is said. Anything and everything is immediately thought to be related to Aliens %100. There is no: possibly, maybe, it could be's, et cetera. It just IS.

Now we go to the other side of the spectrum with this blog. Granted, you try to back up your assumptions with scientific data, of which, I really don't have the time to go and verify myself (true verification would mean myself putting in countless hours of study, so thereby I'm basically pointed to take someone elses word for it). Anywhoo... reading your posts, it's also become clear to me (though to a lesser extent) you have also lost objectivity. You have perfectly formulated your opinions and left yourself no room for change. As I said, this is a clear marker for me to stop trusting you as a source. If one cannot use the proper terminology (maybe, possibly, hell even "most likely" or "surely") of objectivity, I'm left with the icky feeling of being proselytized toward your own beliefs.

Having said all of that, does anyone else feel like the Ancient Aliens guy witnessed a nuclear explosion face front? His red face and blown out hair? I always imagine that he has when listening to his crazy theories.

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Jeremy
12/15/2014 06:26:40 am

"...they would still all be dead."

Uh, no. The dinosaurs did not all die out. Birds still exist.

Still no reason to blame it all on aliens, though.

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Jeremy
1/9/2015 07:58:35 am

Re: Just noticed Colavito already covered that.

Reply
jason
3/21/2015 03:17:44 am

Can somebody Photoshop a picture of George tskoulous getting humped by and blowing a couple of grey aliens while they Eiffel tower him?

Reply
A macias
5/15/2015 09:13:25 am

He is annoying!

Reply
Albert Macias
5/15/2015 09:13:01 am

Jason keep it up! This show is such a disgrace! I use your information to educate my sons, and their friends into not buying this stupid shows claims! It works now they know it is fake!

Reply
ndv
5/30/2015 05:58:35 pm

this remebers me megaman legends a the reboot program

Reply
Carlos link
1/27/2016 01:01:58 pm

Well mammals did not cohesist

Reply
Carlos link
1/27/2016 01:02:50 pm

I meant coexist

Reply
Theory link
4/23/2016 10:10:46 am

My theory is we are the aliens and we do not own this world, I wish that you all understand my comment and OPEN your eyes trough this mysterious WORLD....

- OEsTruth

Reply
Lagboot
5/6/2016 11:55:15 am

What you failed to grasp is time. Time to a million or 20 million year old alien species does not exist as we understand it. When you remove "time" from the equation this alien Earth seeding and meaningful destruction makes sense.
The truth is, we are living on a Zoo. We are not in control and are not in charge. This planet was kick started 100's of millions of years ago (from our perspective) by intelligent beings from our galaxy. Seeded with creatures they wanted to study, use for manipulation, and prepare the Earth for higher intelligence. Since this is their job and lifetime work they do it because they can.

So taking into account that time travel and space time is not a barrier, this is totally possible. All of your counters are ignorant and based on primitave thought processes. The basics are that, for one, the Earth was born a wet world, did not get water from comets/asteroids, bacteria and micro organisms were seeded here, then plants introduced on a mass scale in a short time period, insects introduced at the same time as plants, then animals/dinosaurs to control plants. There is no "chance" involved. Logic dictates the simplest answer makes the most sense. Complicated evolution and chance is not only ignorant but stupid.

You also have to take into account that all of this is taking place while Mars is still a wet world and most likely inhabited and or teeming with life. But that is another subject entirely.

Most likely, Dinosaurs (through micro evolution/manipulation) were genetically modified to create a saurian race that either failed miserably or were takin off world for other purposes.

So now the Earth is ready for stage 2. A new species of intelligent design from Mammals. But they have to destroy the existing dinosaurs in a way that is natural and non interventional (as is pew-pew lazer war wasting resources and energy).
What is the best way? Since I can do almost anything as a 100 million year old space conquering race I will just send several strategically placed asteroids and comets into the Earth, kill 50% of life through starvation, preserve palnts and insects (that survive), eliminate all large species by introducing new bacteris and viruses, wait it out a few million years, return and re-seed the planet with whatever i want. No magic, no mythical gods, just sentient beings doing what they do best because they can.
This is a zoo in a galaxy full of them. We are in a Universe full of millions of billions of galaxies. In an Omniverse with Billions of billions of universes and so forth. A never ending bubble of bubbles.

I understand that you are still clinging on to that ingraned "god" syndrome, inclined to dismiss logic while blinded by a myth and majic. BUt once you let it go, everything becomes clear and open to acceptance that nothing is what it seems, and the possibilities of humanity are limitless.

Reply
Sadworld
7/24/2016 08:07:09 am

Lagboot u said it! Hopefully more people will understand the world we live in!

Reply
Sadworld
7/24/2016 07:49:22 am

I just read a bunch of these messages! This is why mankind is getting dumb! Instead of all u idiots sitting on ur computers reading fake blogs n arguing over being lazy get out! Get of ur chairs and explore the world! I've seen many unexplained things in my travels and I've seen things most of u would say oh that's not true! I'm just tired of lazy people eating bins of cheetos argue over other people's work! Whose stupid! From my travels I know what I've seen and touched and if i can figure out how to move massive rocks! U can too! Well maybe not all of ya! Stupid people finish last!

Reply
Eric
4/1/2018 10:40:04 pm

If you think the Smithsonian article debunked the stegosaurus carving then you don't know what the word debunked means. haha :). All they did was provide theories of what it could be, no more factual than those who clearly see a stegosaurus. Actually, probably less so. They only say it couldn't be that because their worldview forces them to say that - just like yours. Dinos died millions of years ago, so there, the end. If those are leaves, why are they leaves? What's the point? What leaves are they? How can one tell? If it was carved later, by a movie crew, why does the carving type and rock look identical to the other things that are supposedly older?

And to state that birds are today's dinosaur is to choose only ONE of the current theories that dino scientists accept - one that many do NOT accept. It was popularized with Jurassic Park, but it has never taken over to be the only current theory.

But thanks for writing the review - I was trying to find out what episode this was when I saw it on rerun the other day. :)

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