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Ancient Astronauts and Racism

7/13/2012

6 Comments

 
Earlier in the week PZ Myers posted a highly entertaining account of a “debate” he participated in with ancient astronaut theorist Scotty Roberts, an advocate of the belief that that Nephilim, or fallen angels from the Book of Enoch, are in fact extraterrestrial beings. This belief rests, ultimately, on the assumption (without proof) that the gods and demons of ancient myth and legend are aliens, which, in turn, is little more than an attempt to project Arthur C. Clarke’s maxim about advanced technology and magic into the deep past.
Anyway, Myers had an entertaining description of his encounter with Roberts:

Quote
As expected, it was awful. Scotty Roberts opened by protesting that he hadn’t known it was going to be a debate, so he didn’t have any “facts” on hand, and besides, it wasn’t an argument built on facts, but was a theory and philosophy — this was something of a theme for him, dismissing mere science and claiming that the ass-plucking he was doing should be called philosophy. He actively avoided making any specific claims about what he was arguing for — he did not talk about UFOs, Nephilim, Roswell, or any of the details he promoted in his book, preferring instead to recite vague creationist claims (“there were 600 flood myths!”) and complaining about having to provide evidence, of which he had none.

I do have to disagree on one point, however. At the debate, Greg Laden said (in Myers’ summary) that “there are racist connotations to all of these alien beings stories, because they’re often trotted out to support claims of the inferiority of native peoples, who weren’t possibly clever enough to construct those peculiar artifacts.”

This was true of the nineteenth century antecedents of the ancient astronaut theory, such as Theosophy and Donnelly’s Atlantis theory, which had explicitly Aryan pretensions of proving the superiority of the white race. (As did the mainstream archaeology of the time, with its imaginary white founders of every native culture.) However, the modern ancient astronaut theory, while repackaging those old claims, has expanded them to include traditionally “white” ancient peoples such as the Greeks and the builders of Stonehenge. (Since they were white, earlier theories simply counted them as part of the master race.) If ancient astronaut theorists are still overwhelmingly obsessed with depriving non-white peoples of their accomplishments, they are not exclusively so; they don’t think much of ancient white people either. Everybody was stupid until the aliens (as Erich von Daniken argued) had sex with us to inject some bigger brain genes.

By contrast, “lost civilization” proponents like Graham Hancock and Afrocentrists like Ivan Van Sertima fall prey much more to accidental or explicit racism in their theories because they deal with human beings and must choose winners and losers among them. Hancock supports the idea of ancient “white civilizers” who delivered civilization to Latin America and the world, while Van Sertima argued for the same, only black. This is much more racist than the idea that fish-people from Sirius were responsible for all civilization, not just the parts that aren’t European.

6 Comments
C Knapp
7/15/2012 07:14:27 pm

I actually hadn't considered the racist issue until just now, but you do make good points. For me it's always been more about the insulting notion that our ancestors of ANY geographic or genetic background were all idiots.

Modern man, homo sapiens, have been the same since they came on the scene for 200,000 years (anatomically) and displayed fully-modern characteristics for at least 50,000... that means they've been roughly the same people as us today for a very long time- longer than any of the megalithic sites have been standing. The notion that any of us are too stupid to figure out basic engineering principals is just absurd.

Sure, they didn't have cranes and diesel engines, but they had numbers, nothing else to do, and an intense devotion to the gods and kings they were working to please.

Just because Giorgio Tsoukalos couldn't figure out how to make a pyramid, doesn't mean the rest of the world couldn't.

Reply
Anthony
8/23/2013 08:59:48 pm

Jason, read anything by Ivan Van Sertima and you will see that he is a scholar and his findings are based in science and solid evidence. Calling him an Afrocentrist does not in my mind dismiss his claims. I do think much of history has been distorted by racists and people who think those who lived long ago were "primitive".

Graham Hancock on the other hand is not very scientific and does not pass the bar for me. He does have some good things to say in my opinion about psychedelics and how they were used by cultures and are being used today.

Jason, I agree with most of what you have to say BUT the ancients who built massive structures did have other things to do. Building these structures took a lot of time from contributing to the survival of their families, AND they contributed because they wanted to contribute to something that was great and they knew they were building structures that would pass the test of time. It was like they were saying look at how great WE are. This was not just for their Gods or Pharaohs! They would have said so on writing on the walls. These structures were to show us of the understanding they had of higher math, geometry, engineering and the cosmos and secondly to bury the Pharohs in.

I base this on being in 2 of the 3 great pyramids several times.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
8/23/2013 11:31:38 pm

Put Ivan Van Sertima into my blog's search engine, and you can read several posts where I challenge his "scholarship" by pointing to its extreme flaws.

Everyone has other things to do every day, yet somehow we manage to build skyscrapers, and even the starving people of North Korea manage to build massive monuments. If the ancients wanted to "show us" that they knew math and cosmology, why did they have to build dozens upon dozens of pyramids when just one or two would have been enough? This implies that they ancient assumed that their culture would come to an end, which is not something the Egyptians assumed in the Old Kingdom.

Reply
Enginner
6/17/2016 05:28:01 am

Same old tired story Jason Colavito btw you are incredibly incorrect on some of your ASSumptions. Screw PZ Meyers the one who should be taken seriously isn't you or Heiser or Hafernik or any of those so called Scholars that have Xtian agendas and promote bullshit. I have so many academic papers to refute your hypothesis BTW are you a Xtian or Pseudo-skeptic or Peduo-Atheist by chance?!...

Warlock Asylum
7/28/2014 04:52:40 am

Excellent post Jason! keep up the good work!

Reply
Engineer
6/17/2016 05:34:43 am

Most of the things you try to argue about and confront arent even the real academics on the subject. You dealt with a Creationist Xtian moron nothing else. Hes not bright so why did you even bother to argue with a dimwit like him?... BTW its not racist if another culture taught another culture certain knowledge and ideas. You dont even understand the idea of who and what Oannes the fishgod found in Dogon and Sumerian "myth". Hes a symbol for the water god Enki and his men who numbered 300 Abgal/Apkallus/Telkines. Enlils symbol is the bull of heaven and the Eaglemen.

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    • Collection: Ancient Alien Fraud >
      • Chariots of the Gods at 50
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      • Profiles in Ancient Astronautics >
        • Erich von Däniken
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      • Faking Ancient Art in Uzbekistan
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      • Zecharia Sitchin's World
      • Jesus' Alien Ancestors?
      • Extraterrestrial Evolution?
    • Collection: Skeptic Magazine >
      • America Before Review
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      • Interview: Scott Sigler
      • Golden Fleeced
      • Oh the Horror
      • Discovery of America
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      • Review of Civilization One
      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
      • Charioteer of the Gods
    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
      • The China Syndrome
      • Atlantis, Mu, and the Maya
      • Easter Island Exposed
      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
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    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
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    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
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    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
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        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Atrahasis Epic
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        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
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        • Hermetica >
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          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
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        • Hesiod's Theogony
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        • Sanchuniathon
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        • Aelian's Various Histories
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        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
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          • Sardinia and Atlantis
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          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
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          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
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          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
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          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
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        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
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        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
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      • Religious Conspiracies >
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        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
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          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
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          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
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        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
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        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
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        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
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        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
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        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
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        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
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        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
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      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
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        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
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      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Scrapbook
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
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