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Archaeologists Find Stone Wall Beneath Lake Huron

5/2/2014

96 Comments

 
Archaeologists made a fascinating discovery beneath the waters of Lake Huron. John O’Shea of the University of Michigan reported the discovery of large V-shaped stone walls that date back to a time before Lake Huron reached its modern levels—back during the last Ice Age. O’Shea believes that the structures were used as hunting blinds by the Paleoindians for hunting megafauna. O’Shea said that the stone walls are similar to hunting blinds found on Baffin Island but are much more complex and sophisticated. According to O’Shea, the structures were preserved only because they were underwater and they were likely commonly used across North America.
The discovery gives the lie to the frequent fringe history claim that Native Americans never built anything out of stone, often used to justify claims that Northeastern stone chambers and various other stone walls or wall-like formations could not have been Native American constructions. (Though this is partially right: Many were colonial-era spring houses and cold cellars.)

Similar Native American stacked-stone hunting blinds of later date have been found across the Western United States, the Northeast, and in the Arctic.


The discovery is the latest find in what has become an increasingly large body of evidence that the Paleoindians were much more sophisticated than earlier generations of archaeologists once assumed.

Last year, archaeologists working at Winnemucca Lake in Nevada discovered petroglyphs dating back to 8000 to 12,000 BCE, some of the oldest ever discovered in the Americas. The petroglyphs are sophisticated, including geometric forms and shapes geochemist Larry Benson likened to the veins of a leaf. The shapes suggest abstractions and, if we can judge by cross-cultural comparisons, a well-developed shamanic culture.

Alongside this is the now-famous carving of a North American mastodon on a piece of bone found by Florida collector James Kennedy in 2009 that archaeologists dated to a similar time period. In light of the other finds, there is still less reason to follow Dennis Stanford in assigning this piece of art to European Solutreans. Additionally, discoveries at the pre-Clovis site of Monte Verde indicate a rich culture that included wooden architecture and wide knowledge of the use of herbs and plants.

In the past, it was common to depict Paleoindians as essentially itinerant hunters whose entire culture involved chasing mammoths with pointy sticks. The latest discovery shows that Ice Age hunting techniques were more sophisticated, on par with those of the Old World.

I do wonder, however, how long it will be before fringe theorists see in these stone walls Old World cyclopean architecture, the remains of Bible giants’ temples, or the ruins of the temples and pyramids of Atlantis. After all, both Ignatius Donnelly and Gavin Menzies identified the Great Lakes as an outpost of Atlantis in conjunction with the area’s rich copper deposits, and Frank Joseph spun the alleged “pyramid” (a glacial deposit) beneath a lake near Aztalan in Wisconsin into “proof” that the upper Midwest was in fact the original site of Atlantis, taking the fanciful nineteenth century application of the name of the Aztec homeland, Aztlán, to the site as proof of a connection to Atlantis itself.

As I reported a while back, the name ended up attached to a Wisconsin mound site due to some incorrect calculations by Baron von Humboldt, who took Aztec mythology literally and, through faulty math, calculated that they originated “north of the 42d parallel,” roughly in the area of the Great Lakes. Most archaeologists today place the original Aztec homeland in northern Mexico or, at the most distant, the southwestern United States.

At any rate, the new discovery is extremely interesting and contributes to our picture of the earliest Americans.
96 Comments
Jonathan
5/2/2014 07:11:53 am

Real archaeology that is exciting on its own! Who'da thunk it?

Also, I am very curious about the court case you mentioned on twitter.

Reply
Walt
5/2/2014 07:25:13 am

Speaking of Dennis Stanford, H2 recently re-aired their original documentary "Journey to 10000 BC" in which he discusses his Solutrean Theory. It's available to watch free online and his appearance starts just after the 38 minute mark. Nothing new, since it's from 2007 or 2008, but it's interesting that it aired 5 or 6 years before Scott Wolter was stunned to learn about the theory on AU. Stanford even seems to walk down the same hallway and use the same display table in both shows.

Reply
Only Me
5/2/2014 07:35:18 am

Oh no! V-shaped stone walls! As anyone "in the know" will tell you, two V's form an X. Or maybe they represent pediments for underground temples dedicated to aliens. Or maybe they're the remnants of ancient architecture that inspired, and prove, Lovecraft's Old Ones were real.

Anything, except of course, what they actually are...Native American constructs.

Reply
Mandalore
5/2/2014 08:13:16 am

That's stupid, Only Me.

Obviously the V's are actually arrows used by Ice Age Templars/Vikings to point towards their land claims in the Americas in accordance with their worship of the sacred feminine (V is for Vagina, which is also a good album).

Reply
Only Me
5/2/2014 05:55:00 pm

Ha! That could only be if the V's were constructed using the megalithic yard.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/3/2014 05:12:27 pm

Apparently some mother isn't monitoring her child's use of the internet ...

Only Me
5/3/2014 05:24:47 pm

Oooooo! Nice try, Phil. It only took you two hours to figure out you could reuse my quip against other commenters. I'm sure Mandalore and Elephant's Memory appreciate the effort.

Okay, Phil, time for Plan D.

gotta luv AMC link
5/3/2014 11:30:58 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiH_VK4HDNc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAcpo9PZIY8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ5ICXMC4xY

.
5/2/2014 07:47:50 am

!!!!!!!
yes
!!!!!!!

Reply
CHV
5/2/2014 08:16:50 am

It's plainly obvious that the Knights Templar constructed these walls underwater wearing 12th Century scuba gear that Jacques Cousteau later ripped off to make his own design in the 1950s.

Reply
.
5/2/2014 08:21:08 am

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TIS NOT QUITE RIGHT
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CLOSE BUTT NO CIGAR!

Reply
# link
5/4/2014 12:24:08 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7riZeLbFQ9Y

Elephant's Memory
5/2/2014 10:15:44 am

The Knights Templar travelled to America, the evidence lies in the Kensington Rune Stone

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/3/2014 05:10:47 pm

Clearly … some mother isn't monitoring her chid's use of the internet ...

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/3/2014 05:10:54 pm

Clearly … some mother isn't monitoring her child's use of the internet ...

true
5/3/2014 11:36:26 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Wai1QjP_o

.
5/2/2014 08:23:41 am

along our ice age eastern and western continental
coastlines many moons ago these wall structures
were common but vandalism + thievery let alone
flooding either reduced them or covered them over.
in the last 350 to 400 years older walls were taken
apart only to become new stone structures in tyme.

Reply
Shane Sullivan
5/2/2014 11:10:52 am

Neat.

Reply
lurkster
5/2/2014 11:40:24 am

There can be no doubt that Aliens taught those pesky Paleoindians all their sophisticated tricks. After all, H2 AA hasn't done a rock wall episode yet. So surely the bigger hit show will get to fringe-ify this new find first!

Reply
Flypaper
5/2/2014 11:56:31 am

Interesting that those Aliens breathe the same gases

Reply
chinstrap
5/2/2014 11:59:49 am

Aliens don't breathe, they rely on light that goes into their eyes that acts - light supplies energy to their version of our blood

rex nemorensis
5/2/2014 12:01:27 pm

that explains their big eyes

Mr X
5/2/2014 12:04:38 pm

The Loch Ness Monster acts as informer to the aliens in return for food - usually cattle - because there's no food in his lake - and he gives the carcases back to the aliens who put the carcases back where they took them from

Gary
5/2/2014 02:04:18 pm

There is no monster in Loch Ness. She's actually quite nice.

Mandalore
5/2/2014 04:36:00 pm

When she's sober.

Only Me
5/2/2014 05:56:21 pm

If you had a creepy old man like Adrian Shine stalking you, you might have a bad attitude and mostly hide, too.

. link
5/3/2014 11:23:42 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiH_VK4HDNc

.
5/2/2014 10:44:31 pm


Archaeologists FINALLY Find a Stone Wall Beneath Lake Huron

Reply
Byron DeLear
5/3/2014 01:54:30 am

At the base of the submerged wall on Lake Huron, they also found shards of genetic material that when pieced together had the qualities of an anthropomorphic egg albeit of a dwarfish size. Evidently, this proved several things. Firstly, the Menehune clearly migrated throughout North America, and that it would only take the relatively recent development of Crazy Glue to finish the job all the Menehune King's horses and all his men could not finish a long time ago. ;-)

Reply
Gunn
5/3/2014 04:45:22 am

In the National Geographic article linked to, the essayist mentions a slow coastal migration, which I'm guessing we are to suppose to think means down the West Coast. Otherwise, where might the migrators have come from on the East Coast? Exactly. Our then-brown friends from Old France/Spain. So only their technology survives...until something else may be found suggesting otherwise. To me, it's foolish to think of Asians migrating down the West Coast, without allowing for the same possibility of migration down the icy East Coast, from Europe. For now, seeing the very same weapons/hunting technology on both side of the Pond speaks volumes. I'm just saying, it's kind of odd the way this bit of history is being portrayed by most academics.

Thanks for bringing this fresh archaeological news to the blog, Jason. My main take-away is seeing how the meager populations back then aggregated around the caribou, back when the ice was in the process of retreating. Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan was just such an aggregating point for hundreds, probably thousands of years, but based on the springtime abundance of whitefish. (Spearing whitefish in the then-rocky rapids was a special skill, very dangerous.)

Reply
Only Me
5/3/2014 06:35:59 am

Archaeologists aren't necessarily being foolish, Gunn. They are trying to piece together prehistoric North America the best they can by following the available evidence.

So far, the evidence suggests a migratory route along the West Coast, supported by the existence of sites like Monte Verde, Pedra Furada and many more of roughly equal age in South America. This means ancient people may have entered North America before 20,000 years ago. This date is important, because Canada and the northern U.S. were closed off by converging ice sheets that didn't recede until approximately 7,000 years later, opening the way for the Clovis culture.

It's not beyond possibility that ancient people migrated from Europe to the East Coast, but given the existence of glacial sheets at the time, they may have encountered the same problems as those trying to migrate from the west. North America may have been blocked off to them, as well. What is needed to give the hypothesis more consideration is more evidence.

Reply
Walt
5/3/2014 10:30:12 am

If you watch the documentary I referenced above, Dr. Stanford states that the lower sea level at the time exposed many islands along the route. The on-screen graphics show quite a few islands, but that whole documentary is a bit sensational, starting with the narrator.

Shane Sullivan
5/3/2014 10:59:14 am

I watched part of that documentary the other day. I'm not by any means a naval historian, but I don't know what makes them think the Solutreans had sail boats as depicted in the re-enactments. Especially since the actual hypothesis doesn't mention sail-driven watercraft, but kayaks.

Only Me
5/3/2014 01:23:01 pm

Thanks for the info, Walt. I can't remember if I've seen the documentary or not. This is the first I've heard of the island route. Some have argued that migration occurred over the glacial sheets themselves, which would be a logistical nightmare.

I'm not ruling out the possibility, but I need more than a crude stick figure carved into a mammoth bone, which could have been made by any culture present in North America. DNA testing alone shows a strong link to Asian ancestry. Yes, Clovis and Solutrean points are similar, but Jason has mentioned before that they were separated by 2,000 years. It would be like a modern artist recreating a Roman spearhead, having it compared to a genuine Roman artifact, and arriving at the following conclusions:

a) the Romans taught the artist, b) the artist is a Roman descendant, or c) the artist *is* a Roman. Unless I'm mistaken, this is Stanford's argument for the similarity between Solutrean and Clovis spearheads.

Gunn
5/3/2014 02:03:53 pm

Only Me, so if both northern coasts were uninhabitable, and difficult to travel along, mainland America may have been settled from the south originally, generally speaking, not from the north.

This would have seem be true if artifacts stretching back well before the end of the last glacial period are popping up from "down South." So, to make things simple, evidence shows that humans arrived in areas where the ice was still retreating, but they must have come from the south, not from northward.

But of course this doesn't preclude others from coming from different directions, later, whether by boat or by hugging the ice and living off seals. So, it looks like humans possibly began arriving in North America first from the south (and by boats possibly crossing warmer waters from east or west), and later from the north, after the ice finished receding.

So then, maybe the Native Americans who built the hunting walls in Lake Huron migrated from southward, unless they more recently came by hugging ice and then filling in behind the retreating glaciers. So, maybe these very real rock walls were built by Solutreans, who later were replaced by populous tribes from Asia? (Just stirring up a bit of early controversy.) But remember, these temporary peoples leaving behind European technology were quite possibly brown-skinned back then, so who really cares, right?

Has the struggle for recognition come to be a struggle between non-whites then? Wouldn't that be nice if it came to be a struggle between brown-skinned people only? Who contributed and who didn't? Who was capable of building hunting walls and who wasn't? Who was smart and who wasn't, right? Wrong. No, that's not even the question, is it? Because any people from anywhere were capable of building the caribou hunting structures--as much as building a simple fishing trap.

(Just rabble-rousing.)

Walt
5/3/2014 02:15:58 pm

Well, I wouldn't necessarily take the documentary's word for it about the island route, I just wanted to point out that Dr. Stanford has accounted for the very rough journey in his theory. Personally, I'll go with the consensus until DNA evidence says otherwise.

Not only are the Solutrean and Clovis points similar, but the Siberian and Clovis tools are not at all similar, according to that documentary. Stanford shows a Siberian blade made of ivory or bone with a row of stone points inset along its full length, like a knife blade. That dissimilarity is the main reason he went looking for another source for the Clovis blades. Basically, his reasoning for the theory is the Clovis points do not resemble Siberian tools, they most closely resemble Solutrean points, and a majority of Clovis sites are on the East coast.

Only Me
5/3/2014 03:01:12 pm

Migration along the West Coast or from South America are equally possible, at this stage. Remember, Monte Verde and Pedra Furada are older than Clovis, but there are sites in the U.S. that rival or are older than they are (Topper, Meadowcroft Rockshelter, Paisley Caves, etc.). We have the sites, but as to which direction their founders were heading, nobody knows for certain. Solutreans *could* have made it here before Clovis, but the absence of definitive European DNA (specifically, Haplogroup X2A) among Paleoindian remains, thus far, puts that idea in the realm of "possible, but not proven".

As to ocean travel, consider this from Lawrence G. Straus, writing in American Antiquity, April 2000: "there are no representations of boats and no evidence whatsoever either of seafaring or of the ability to make a living mainly or solely from the ocean during the Solutrean."

Concerning the similarities of Solutrean and Clovis points, I think it's more likely that both cultures had the same idea...there's only so many ways to make stone tools.

Walt
5/3/2014 03:23:05 pm

The only evidence Stanford presented addressing the Solutreans as seafarers was a drawing on a cave wall of a deep-sea animal of some sort which couldn't be caught from the shore, and the fact that sea levels rose after they left their boats on our shore. We only have the remains of boats back to the time when the oceans stopped rising, 7000 to 9000 years ago.

That doesn't really address the fact that there are no drawings of the boats or evidence that they made a living from the ocean.

If the single tool he presented as Siberian is the only type of tool they made, then that's the most interesting part of his theory. It wasn't a stone point at all and looked nothing like the rest.

Only Me
5/3/2014 03:50:55 pm

It's strange he would compare an ivory or bone blade to a Solutrean point, when the trademark tool of the Clovis was a stone point. The main difference between the points, is the bifacial fluting, a long groove carved into the bottom edge of a point to help attach it to the head of a spear.

It isn't just the lack of boat drawings; there are no cave paintings in North America like the ones found in the Cave of Altamira. And the bone mammoth carving found near the Vero man site in Florida? Art historian Barbara Olins has compared the Vero carving to "Franco-Cantabrian" drawings and engravings of mammoths. She notes that the San of southern Africa developed a realistic manner of representing animals similar to the "Franco-Cantabrian" style, which suggests such a style could have evolved in North America independently.

Like I said before, more evidence would give the hypothesis more weight. Maybe it exists and it's waiting to be found.

Walt
5/3/2014 06:04:13 pm

I just went and watched again to make sure I wasn't misrepresenting the documentary, and I wasn't. Stanford shows the Siberian blade alongside the Clovis point, then compares the Clovis point to two others that are similar but not from Siberia. He never mentions the Siberian points that were later found by others after he found the blade in the '80s.

The Clovis discussion is probably only 15 minutes and begins after the 38 minute mark.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/journey-to-10000-bc/

Only Me
5/3/2014 08:42:18 pm

Thanks for the link, Walt. You were right about the Siberian tool. I mistakenly put Solutrean instead of Clovis when I mentioned the comparison earlier.

What I find interesting, is the artifact they show from Cactus Hill. Of course, it isn't the same as the Clovis point, but I think it bolsters the opinion that Clovis points were made independently of Solutrean influence. Cactus Hill is one of the sites in the U.S. that is older than Clovis. I feel it shows progression in technology, a far better argument than Stanford's, which is based on superficial similarity.

Naturally, I'm not an archaeologist, and new evidence could be found that overturns the current hypothesis, proving Stanford right.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/3/2014 01:27:01 pm

Where do the [……]-"Nazis" fit into this bit … ??? (They MUST be involved somehow*somewhere …)

Reply
Only Me
5/3/2014 01:35:27 pm

Oh sure, Phil, everybody knows about them. We just didn't tell you.

Reply
$ link
5/3/2014 11:46:28 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws59nvI6Ouk

Reply
& link
5/4/2014 12:27:42 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcrSNd2oGWU

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/3/2014 02:51:47 pm

Has anybody noticed that the letters "Anasazi" can EASILY be rearranged to form, "Nazis" … ???

Reply
Only Me
5/3/2014 03:05:48 pm

Clearly some mother isn't monitoring her child's use of the internet.

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/3/2014 05:25:32 pm

Yes …

I guess your dad should take over monitoring your habits … I guess … (You brought it up …)

Only Me
5/3/2014 06:23:17 pm

Swing and a miss!

So much for Plan D. Don't worry, Phil, there are plenty of letters left in the alphabet.

. link
5/3/2014 11:09:19 pm

http://www.google.com/webhp?source=search_app

/
5/3/2014 11:10:42 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtdcFuIoAhI

Reply
KIF
5/4/2014 05:24:50 am

There's always the Kensington Runestone to prove that Knights Templars travelled to America, the Gospel of the infallible Scott Wolter decrees it, as noted before

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/4/2014 05:59:37 am

No …

Submerged stone structures are about the Aztecs, the Mayans, the Anasazi, Cahokia, and … "Nazis" ...

Reply
Only Me
5/4/2014 03:26:57 pm

Personalize, propagandize, perpetuate.

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/4/2014 03:48:40 pm

LOL …

When you p - p - p into the wind -- as you are doing -- you're only going to wet your SELF …

what*ever ...

Only Me
5/4/2014 04:22:26 pm

Yes, let the butthurt flow through you. I've identified your strategy, ineffectual as it is.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/4/2014 04:50:53 pm

???

huh

Only Me
5/4/2014 05:25:07 pm

Personalize -- turn any criticism into an attack on Scott Wolter the person, not his work or associations

Propagandize -- create a false narrative to portray those who question Scott's work or associations as individuals with nefarious motives and personal agendas

Perpetuate -- invoke repetitious arguments designed to make the first two steps seem factual

Your stratagem is obvious and you've employed it to make comments that have nothing to do with the actual topic of the article. You've done this on two different blog posts. I imagine you'll keep doing it, because you cannot tolerate the thought that Scott is not infallible. Your arguments are smoke and mirrors...and you know it.

I honestly never expected a reverend to stoop to such deception.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/4/2014 05:32:55 pm

Patiently … not for the first time (and almost certainly, not for the last) …

By all means ANYTHING Scott Wolter has published, said, implied, or concluded can and should be discussed, studied, debated, and hashed over until Jesus returns …

But when he is attacked UNFAIRLY as a PERSON, his character is smeared … THAT is out of order, and I will continue to object … Get Over It …

The gossipy NONSENSE about neo-esoteric-proto-crypto-"Nazis" is just plain SILLY and adds NOTHING to a SERIOUS discussion of North American history and pre-history ...

Reply
Only Me
5/4/2014 05:38:06 pm

Since he was never attacked unfairly as a person, only his association with Frank Joseph was examined, your point is moot. Deal with it.

And, attributing such a false accusation, is equally silly and also adds nothing to the discussion. You still remain the only person, among all those who have visited this blog, who doesn't get it.

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/4/2014 05:44:06 pm

As I already reminded … Another visitor to these blogs, who is NO friend of Scott Wolter, has cautioned that the "guilt by association" move is in itself a well-known "Fascist"-"Stalinist" gambit …

So, go ahead with it, I guess, if YOU are comfortable associating YOUR style with that of Adolf and Joe ...

Reply
Only Me
5/4/2014 05:55:18 pm

And as I have said, in every way a sane and intelligent man could comprehend, there has been no guilt by association made.

I will mention again, like I did to your earlier comment on another blog post, I'm not friends with Jason. I don't know him and have never met him.

Associate me with Adolf and Joe to your heart's content; like I said before, you're entitled to have a personal opinion of me, but that doesn't mean I'm going to care what it is.

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/5/2014 04:50:56 am

BINGO …

NOBODY wins at the *Guilt*by*Association* Game … I agree ...

Jason Colavito link
5/5/2014 05:04:53 am

How about guilt in a court of law? Should I start sharing those documents? Or would you like to drop it and stop your incessant, repetitive posting?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/5/2014 05:31:50 am

Jason … !!!

What you are proposing is called BLACKMAIL -- "You must do as I say, or else I will reveal the photographs and documents … " …
Is that it … ???

Well … As long as your blogs continue to continue to associate my friend and colleague with "Nazi" crap … I will rise to defend his character …

How can I, as a moral person of my own good character, decline to do otherwise (much less consent to blackmail) … ???

Reply
Matt Mc
5/5/2014 05:55:54 am

No one will associate you FRIEND with Nazis if you FRIEND did not work for and with a former leader of the American Nazi party. If you are so concerned about people arriving at a guilt by association assessment of that relationship perhaps you SHOULD talk to your FRIEND about his professional associates.

The fact are pretty clear Wolter has worked with and for Joseph, Wolter also address topics that known racist and white power propagandists use to forward their agenda.

While this does not show that Wolter agrees or is a racist, one could come incorrectly to the conclusion.

The problem does not lie with Jason for talking about how fringe theories are adapted by racist or that known racist publishes and promotes theories and authors. Instead the problem lies with Wolter and others for choosing to work with people like Josephs.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
5/5/2014 06:08:58 am

I'm not blackmailing you, Phil, obviously enough because the documents have nothing to do with you. Besides, it's rather hard to blackmail in public. What I'm trying to say, Phil, is that if you insist on besmirching my character with your attacks, I will need to demonstrate using public records and court documents that not just are your attacks vile but your propagandistic defense of Wolter is built on a foundation of sand.

That you did not deny the existence of said court documents tells me that you know what they say and that they paint a very different picture of Wolter.

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/5/2014 09:02:17 am

Jason …

As soon as you -- and others in these blog spots -- stop IMPLYING that my friend and colleague is a neo-proto-esoteric-crypto-"Nazi" … I will no longer haunt these premises ...

Matt Mc
5/5/2014 09:30:10 am

People will stop making implications when he stops choosing to work with known American Nazi leaders.

Things like this happen when you CHOOSE to work with people of questionable backgrounds, it does come back up and bite you.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/5/2014 09:39:33 am

… AND … as long as "people make implications," I will rise up to DEFEND my friend and colleague ...

Reply
DAN D
5/5/2014 12:44:00 pm

Curious, if the implications bother you they must bother SW. Does he really need you to come here and defend him and I'm not sure what the hell are you defending him from.

He's a grown man with a Blog of his own who can address these .issues he so chooses.

Your comments are getting tiresome. We know he's your friend and that's fine but your point has been made numerous times.

I would rather hear from Scott Wolter at this point if any of this is troubling for him.








Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/5/2014 01:36:18 pm

I agree … that the relentless Wolter-bashing IS "tiresome" ...

Only Me
5/5/2014 05:35:50 pm

Not half as tiresome as the continuous deception of his number one fan.

EP
5/9/2014 11:01:47 am

This just in: Rev. Phil Gotsch (if that is his real name) fraternizes with and defends Neo-Nazi associates and propagators of their racially problematic views. The internet community is outraged.

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/9/2014 11:20:02 am

pathetic

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/5/2014 05:41:17 pm

"Oh. It's only you, Maynard …"
-- "Dobie Gillis," to "Maynard G. Krebs," in "The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis"

Reply
Only Me
5/5/2014 06:18:51 pm

That's right, Gilligan. See if the Professor has found a way to get you back to reality yet.

Reply
Lynn Brant
5/9/2014 09:20:56 am

You know, it was the Templars who first invented the coconut phone. And as for these walls, they didn't have to be built before the last ice age ended. The Templars had scuba gear, and were master underwater builders. In fact, it is a closely guarded secret that the Navy Seals of today, are descended from them.

EP
5/9/2014 11:50:46 am

The sign of the Navy SEALs features a trident, which bears striking resemblance to the Templar cross (if we attach it to the end of a stick). Trident was also the weapon of Shiva. Shiva's name may have come from the same root as the Tamil word 'sivan', which means "fair skinned" (or "white"). 'Sivan' may in turn have come from the word meaning "crimson". The Templar cross is crimson on white background.

EP
5/9/2014 10:52:07 am

I, for one, hope Jason publishes the court documents he has alluded to in this thread. Or at the very least says what they are so we can look for them ourselves

Reply
Jason Colavito link
5/9/2014 01:20:32 pm

I will be publishing them soon. To cover myself I need to have certified copies to ensure that I can prove in court that the documents are legitimate and accurate. They have to pull the microfilm from the archive, so I'm still waiting for the court to send me a certified copy. I should have it next week.

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/9/2014 02:26:54 pm

Jason Colavito … !!!

Thus you confirm that these blogs AREN'T about North American ("Unearthed") history and pre-history … but, rather, an anti-Wolter vendetta ...

EP
5/9/2014 02:35:08 pm

A clear case of confirmation bias if I've ever seen one. :)

Only Me
5/9/2014 03:11:24 pm

Sarcasm: ON

Well, Jason, I guess Phil was right all along.

It's amazing how you started this blog four years ago-- TWO YEARS before Scott Wolter and America Unearthed appeared on radar-- just so you could have this sweet, sweet moment of premeditated malice. I'm truly amazed you were so patient, what with having to write ALL those unrelated articles concerning the fringe "theories" popular at the time.

I mean, holy shit, all those reviews of Ancient Aliens. And all those book reviews of its talking heads. Why, I don't know how you hung in there investigating Bigfoot, dragons, lost cities/civilizations, hoaxed artifacts, religious fringe "theories", Theosophy and H.P. Lovecraft's works! The anticipation to drop the hammer on Scott must have been killing you!

Thank goodness, it will soon be over. Then we can go back to talking about North American history/pre-history. Because that's what it's all about, right?

Sarcasm: OFF

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/9/2014 03:27:11 pm

Ummmm …

The (supposed) "Scott Wolter" Problem cropped up HERE in relation to the H2 "America Unearthed" TV shows, yes … ??? No … ???

Only Me
5/9/2014 04:22:05 pm

Yes.

Jason reviewed the episodes of America Unearthed. Due to its popularity and the curious wanting to know more about Scott, Jason reports on both Scott and the show.

The "problem" is that as a result of that reporting, you have tried to turn this blog and it's owner into symptoms of some grand scheme to discredit Scott, and you've been doing it since you first appeared on the blog post reporting the results of Jason's investigation into his honorary degree. You and Scott both made the matter personal.

If Jason's motivation and goal were truly as you claim, why are there archives to every post Jason has written? Collections of episode reviews for not only AU, but also AA? Why the links to Books, Multimedia, Articles, Galleries and The Library?

You've been fabricating any excuse you can to make this as personal as possible, going so far as to lie, and it is pathetic.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/9/2014 04:37:32 pm

I have consistently in NUMEROUS postings said: by all means, DISCUSS and hash-over and critique the discoveries, conclusions, claims and findings of Scott Wolter in the "America Unearthed" H2 TV shows … Where is there a problem with that … ???

What I STRENUOUSLY reject is snarky nasty personal comments and misrepresentations …

I DON'T see these very interesting questions as being anything like a p*ssing contest or a cage-match fight ...

Only Me
5/9/2014 05:11:11 pm

You have also consistently, in numerous postings contradicted yourself. We HAVE discussed, rehashed and critiqued Scott's discoveries, conclusions, claims and findings only for your to make excuses, such as "It's just a TV show", or have you tell us to "lighten up." This is what I talked about before, something you WILL NOT admit. Every time we talk about what you want, you start making excuses or accuse us of personal attacks. No matter what, you just don't want us talking about Scott, contrary to your assurances.

You know full well Jason can be sarcastic and possesses a dry wit, but he has not made snarky, nasty personal comments OR misrepresented Scott in his articles. If you are so sure I'm wrong, find the passage and include the headline of the post. I don't want to see something, like, "Scott Wolter....sucks." NO, I want the paragraph which includes the passage, so everyone can read it within its proper context.

Since you are so confident of the truth of your claims, prove it. Use Jason's words against him. Prove me wrong, too. If I am, I will admit without hesitation. The onus is on you.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/9/2014 05:31:30 pm

1,320 (!!!) posts about "Scott Wolter's Apparently Non-Exisent Degree," even though Scott Wolter himself cleared up that innocent misunderstanding fully a year and a half ago ...

Only Me
5/9/2014 07:04:53 pm

Ah, yes, I remember that headline. That's the one where Jason made 126 of those comments...but...YOU made 268 of those comments, often repeating the same stock responses you've employed everywhere else.

Yes, Scott offered an explanation, but it didn't clear anything up, or else people would not still be leaving comments. I guess it has something to do with Scott allowing a non-existent honorary degree to remain on his resume for 20 years. Hardly a "misunderstanding".

But, the subject of that particular headline isn't the issue. I asked for proof of Jason making snarky, nasty personal comments and misrepresentations. This was all you could find.

Hey, I stepped up and gave you a chance. You blew it.

EP
5/9/2014 04:23:50 pm

Rev. Phil Grotsch, two questions:

Do you use, or have you ever used the handle "Southern Partisan" on ancientlosttreasures.com?

Are you, in fact, Harry Hubbard?

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/9/2014 04:55:59 pm

LOL …
"EP" (whoever you are):

Two answers:

(1) "I didn't expect 'The Spanish Inquisition' … !!!"
(2) What the … ???

Reply
EP
5/9/2014 05:08:42 pm

While the second question is admittedly a stab in the dark, you and Southern Partisan share a rather peculiar style... Also, I'd like to note that you haven't answered in the negative.

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/10/2014 03:43:38 am

Try this:

Google: Sen. Joe McCarthy

See … I don't recognize your right to conduct such interrogations ...

EP
5/10/2014 04:30:53 am

Have you ever visited the Burrows Cave?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
5/10/2014 04:36:55 am

"EP" (whoever you are) --

I have visited a few caves here and there, but I prefer above-ground geology (except that I have enjoyed the few mines I have entered) ...


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        • Volume 16 Archive
        • Volume 17 Archive
        • Volume 18 Archive
        • Volume 19 Archive
        • Volume 20 Archive
      • Volumes 21-30 Archive >
        • Volume 21 Archive
        • Volume 22 Archive
    • Television Reviews >
      • Ancient Aliens Reviews
      • In Search of Aliens Reviews
      • America Unearthed
      • Pirate Treasure of the Knights Templar
      • Search for the Lost Giants
      • Forbidden History Reviews
      • Expedition Unknown Reviews
      • Legends of the Lost
      • Unexplained + Unexplored
      • Rob Riggle: Global Investigator
    • Book Reviews
    • Galleries >
      • Bad Archaeology
      • Ancient Civilizations >
        • Ancient Egypt
        • Ancient Greece
        • Ancient Near East
        • Ancient Americas
      • Supernatural History
      • Book Image Galleries
    • Videos
    • Collection: Ancient Alien Fraud >
      • Chariots of the Gods at 50
      • Secret History of Ancient Astronauts
      • Of Atlantis and Aliens
      • Aliens and Ancient Texts
      • Profiles in Ancient Astronautics >
        • Erich von Däniken
        • Robert Temple
        • Giorgio Tsoukalos
        • David Childress
      • Blunders in the Sky
      • The Case of the False Quotes
      • Alternative Authors' Quote Fraud
      • David Childress & the Aliens
      • Faking Ancient Art in Uzbekistan
      • Intimations of Persecution
      • Zecharia Sitchin's World
      • Jesus' Alien Ancestors?
      • Extraterrestrial Evolution?
    • Collection: Skeptic Magazine >
      • America Before Review
      • Native American Discovery of Europe
      • Interview: Scott Sigler
      • Golden Fleeced
      • Oh the Horror
      • Discovery of America
      • Supernatural Television
      • Review of Civilization One
      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
      • Charioteer of the Gods
    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
      • The China Syndrome
      • Atlantis, Mu, and the Maya
      • Easter Island Exposed
      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
      • Lovecraft in Bergier
      • Lovecraft and Scientology
    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
      • Aliens and Anal Probes
      • Ultra-Terrestrials and UFOs
      • Rebels, Queers, and Aliens
    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
    • The Curse of the Pharaohs
    • The Antediluvian Pyramid Myth
    • Whitewashing American Prehistory
    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
      • Ancient Texts >
        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Atrahasis Epic
          • Epic of Gilgamesh
          • Kutha Creation Legend
          • Babylonian Creation Myth
          • Descent of Ishtar
          • Berossus
          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
          • Dream Stela of Thutmose IV
          • The Papyrus of Ani
          • Classical Accounts of the Pyramids
          • Inventory Stela
          • Manetho
          • Eratosthenes' King List
          • The Story of Setna
          • Leon of Pella
          • Diodorus on Egyptian History
          • On Isis and Osiris
          • Famine Stela
          • Old Egyptian Chronicle
          • The Book of Sothis
          • Horapollo
          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
          • The Asclepius
          • The Emerald Tablet
          • Hermetic Fragments
          • Prologue to the Kyranides
          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
        • Ctesias' Indica
        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Scrapbook
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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