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Area 51 and the Alleged Plot to Fool the Soviets with Spacemen

12/13/2018

19 Comments

 
​You might have seen the recent spate of publicity surrounding Bob Lazar, a UFO lecture circuit regular who became famous a nearly thirty years ago, in May 1989, when Las Vegas TV reporter George Knapp interviewed him about the U.S. government’s alleged UFO research at Area 51. Over the years, Lazar’s claims have expanded into a baroque narrative encompassing U.S. government research into 10,000 years of alien involvement in human affairs, but his personal credibility has suffered from revelations that his alleged alma maters have no record of him, something he calls a conspiracy to discredit him. Now Lazar is the subject of a new documentary from the same team that brought us Hunt for the Skinwalker earlier this year, and following much the same format, including clips from old Knapp interviews. The film has occasioned borderline credulous write-ups in a number of mainstream publications, including The Daily Beast and the British tabloids.
​I got offered a screener for Jeremy Corbell’s film, Bob Lazar: Area 51 & Flying Saucers, but I couldn’t bring myself to gin up the interest to watch it.
 
Lazar’s long history of stating things that later investigation proves to be unsupported by fact has left even fellow UFO researchers like Stanton Friedman to brand him a liar and a fraud. To be entirely honest, I don’t care must about him or his wild claims. Area 51 conspiracies fall outside my area of interest, except insofar as Lazar has folded himself into the Bigelow-DeLonge axis. Lazar claimed online that he had written his autobiography and DeLonge’s To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science will be publishing it. (To the Stars has not confirmed this, and it is not currently on their public schedule of publications.) And, of course, Lazar’s entire ufology career owes itself to Knapp, Bigelow’s buddy and the author of the authorized book about Bigelow’s Skinwalker Ranch adventure.
 
However, the film happens to dovetail with Nick Redfern’s new book about Area 51, due out in a couple of weeks, and to promote the book, Redfern published an article on Mysterious Universe last week in which he discussed what he learned from a now-deceased former police officer pseudonymously deemed “John,” who claimed to have worked for the predecessor of G4S Secure Solutions in the 1970s, in which capacity he worked at Area 51.
 
According to Redfern, “John” learned a great deal about U.S. government space alien work, but he believed that it was not about real space aliens:
John also speculated on another possibility; it was a possibility which involved the Soviets. Although he was somewhat reluctant to address the matter in-depth – which is intriguing – John said he heard a few snippets of data suggesting that there was a small program at Area 51 which was trying to convince the Russians that the United States Government had not just alien bodies, but extraterrestrial technology; even highly advanced, powerful alien weaponry. John wondered if all of this was a mind-game – one designed to scare the Russians into thinking we had something that we never really did, but which the staff at Area 51 were hoping the Russians would come to believe. And come to fear, too. John died in 2013. His widow stated that in his final years John came to believe even more that what he saw and read out at Area 51 in the early 1970s was connected to a project of mind-blowing proportions; a highly detailed and intricate fabrication designed to have the Russians running around like headless chickens, wasting their time on disinformation dressed up as incredible truths and ultimately getting arrested.
​Just to note: There is no factual support given for any of this, and the speculation belongs to “John,” based on facts that are not clearly described. I am also concerned about the way that “a small program” blew up in the course of one paragraph into “a project of mind-blowing proportions.”
 
Even with all of that, a minimalist reading of the claims rings at least somewhat true. We know, for example, that the U.S. government monitored UFO reports as a way of keeping tabs on the Soviet space program, and we know from U.S. and Soviet government documents that both governments falsely attributed secret tests of spacecraft, aircraft, and weapons to UFOs as a way of disguising what they hoped their opposite numbers would not discover. There are even a few hints—like a famous NSA copy of a memo about the Spitsbergen “UFO” calling it a government “plant”—that intelligence agencies were involved in faking UFO incidents.
 
So the idea that Area 51 engaged in intentional disinformation by covering up military and intelligence work with stories about space aliens doesn’t strike me as preposterous. I would wonder, though, if the intention was to actually fool the Soviets into believing America had space aliens—particularly since the Soviets spent decades promoting UFOs and ancient astronauts among Western journalists and writers—as much as it was to make it difficult, if not impossible, to figure out the real technologies American scientists and engineers were developing due to the challenge of disentangling reality from fantasy.
 
It’s an interesting story, but I would need to see some corroborating data before accepting the speculations of the deceased “John” as fact.
19 Comments
Achilles
12/13/2018 10:20:41 am

Hey guys! This is the latest ground breaking, ancient extinct, highly advanced civilization video from Bright Insight. I did a step by step debunking of it, but my comment doesn't show up on his video, so I guess he blocked me :|. Knowing that you like conspiracies and their debunking, I will post it here.

The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMTTFLiOwX0

The debunking of the video:

-There is no evidence of a previous highly advanced civilization, Jimmy, just like Hancock, simply ignores this. All the structures he wrongly attributes to this “civilization” have been dated, he ignores this as well. People use two explanations for the lack of evidence: 1) the inhabitation of the coastline alone and 2) the decaying of all of the evidence due to the long timespan of around 14.000 years. In order to address both of them:

1) Humans had always inhabited all the land available. A highly advanced civilization would expand as much as possible, given it’s greater need for resources and would have no problem overpowering the primitive local populations.Jimmy claims that the Egyptian pyramids were built by this advanced civilization, which shows that even he agrees that not all the supposed land of this civilization sunk underwater. So, to say that all the evidence is missing because the land inhabited by this civilization is now underwater is simply illogical, even by Jimmy’s reasoning.


2) To say that all the traces and evidence vanished due to natural decay is false as well. There are human remains, tools, figurines and cave paintings dating back as far as 30.000 B.C. and even older. There are also dinosaur bones dating back millions of years. ago.Yet, no traces of any previous highly advanced civilization. If the humans would simply vanish today, there will be plenty of traces of our current civilization even after 12.000 years, including many inscriptions in stone. Note the absolute lack of inscriptions of this supposed highly advanced civilization. So, to say that traces of primitive communities survived, including organic material, but all the evidence of a the supposed highly advanced civilization vanished, is illogical.

Sources:
1) https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/journey-oldest-cave-paintings-world-180957685/
2) https://www.britannica.com/topic/Venus-of-Willendorf
3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Hohle_Fels

- Jimmy claims that we have no idea how the Egyptians built the pyramids. This is not true. There is no confirmed answer at the moment, but there are multiple theories. The best one, at the moment, is the theory of the French architect Jean Pierre Houdin

Sources:
1) Main theory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGV1EQ-xx-M?
2) Clues supporting the theory: https://www.3ds.com/fileadmin/kheops/renaissance/pdf/34_clues_for_the_theory.pdf

- Human remains have been found inside of some of the pyramids and inside some of their smaller secondary pyramids. For examples, the pyramids of Djoser, Menkaure, Teti, Merenre and Amenemhat III, just to name a few.

Sources:
1) Mark Lehner, The Complete Pyramids, Thames & Hudson, London, 1997, pp.88,136,156,160,176.
2) Peter A. Clayton, Chronicle of the Pharaos, Thames & Hudson Ltd, London, 1994, p.34.

- There are Sarcophagi (the most famous one being the one of Khufu), wooden coffins (Pyramid of Menkaure), funerary furniture (offering tables, canopic chests: pyramids of Amenemhat III and Unas ) and Jewelry (pyramid of Sesostris I), all being found inside of pyramids.


Sources:
1) Mark Lehner, The Complete Pyramids, Thames & Hudson, London, 1997, pp.52,154,175,182.
2) Peter A. Clayton, Chronicle of the Pharaos, Thames & Hudson Ltd, London, 1994, pp.58,80.
- There are ancient historians stating that the pyramids are tombs, like Herodotus and Strabo.

Sources:
Herodotus, The Histories, Book II.
Strabo, Geography, Book XVII.

- There are ancient Egyptian texts that talk about the funerary function of the pyramids (the story of Sinuhe; the man who was weary of life)

Source: William Simpson, The Literature of Ancient Egypt, Yale University Press, London, 2003, pp.54,178.



-Pyramids have sealing mechanisms, like many other egyptian tombs. These are usually stone slab porticuli or sand release mechanisms used to lower heavy loads unto the burial chamber and thus seal it. Almost every pyramid does have an enclosing funerary court with secondary tombs, satellite pyramids and temples.

Sources:
1) Mark Lehner, The Complete Pyramids, Thames & Hudson, London, 1997, pp.18-19,112,182-183.
2) Peter A. Clayton, Chronicle of the Pharaos, Thames & Hudson Ltd, London, 1994, p.89.

- Pyramids do have inscriptions inside the burial chamber, from the 5th dynasty onward and they are called “the pyramid texts”. Some pyramids have inscribed pyramidions (pyramid of Khendjer). The evolution of decoration can be witnessed even later, for instance in the Valley of the Kings, where there are tombs with minimal or no decor

Reply
Achilles
12/13/2018 10:25:22 am

Part 2:

- Pyramids do have inscriptions inside the burial chamber, from the 5th dynasty onward and they are called “the pyramid texts”. Some pyramids have inscribed pyramidions (pyramid of Khendjer). The evolution of decoration can be witnessed even later, for instance in the Valley of the Kings, where there are tombs with minimal or no decoration at all (KV 20, KV 38, KV 39).

Sources:
1) Mark Lehner, The Complete Pyramids, Thames & Hudson, London, 1997, pp.31-33,186.
2) Peter A. Clayton, Chronicle of the Pharaos, Thames & Hudson Ltd, London, 1994, p.63.
3) Nicholas Reeves, Richard H. Wilkinson, The Complete Valley of the Kings, Thames & Hudson, London, 1996, pp.89,91-93,95-96.
4) http://thebanmappingproject.com/atlas/index_kv.asp
5) https://pyramidtextsonline.com/

- There is a graffiti with the name of Khufu above the burial chamber of the Great Pyramid, a space that was sealed from the construction of the pyramid until the XIX century, when it was entered with the aid of explosives. Note, that this chamber had no doors and was not meant to be ever entered.

Sources:
1) Mark Lehner, The Complete Pyramids, Thames & Hudson, London, 1997, pp.50-52.
2) http://originalpeople.org/germans-vandalized-great-pyramid/

- There are organic materials found between the stones of the pyramids (like fragments of rope, wood and other residues) have been carbon dated to Old and Middle Kingdom. Note that all of these organic materials were originally covered by the outer casing that is now missing.

Sources:
1) Mark Lehner, The Complete Pyramids, Thames & Hudson, London, 1997, pp.66-67.
2)http://www.aeraweb.org/projects/how-old-are-the-pyramids/

- There is a “pyramid” hieroglyph (mr)

Sources:
1) Mark Lehner, The Complete Pyramids, Thames & Hudson, London, 1997, p.34.
2)https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Pyramid_(mr_hieroglyph)

- Jimmy claims that the pyramids are older then dynastic Egypt. There is absolutely no evidence suggesting that.

- Carving and cutting granite with copper saws/drills and stone pounders have been proven by experimental archaeology. It’s a slowly process, but it works. Note, that granite was used only for the most important projects and that most of the stones used for the pyramids are limestone, which is much softer than granite. Jimmy saw the video demonstrating it, yet he claims that it’s impossible because they didn’t cut the whole block. This is a logical error: You have to measure the time it took to cut the first 5-10 centimeters and then you can calculate the time necessary for an entire block. Primitive saw marks can be seen on Egyptian objects, the best example being the unfinished sarcophagus from Cairo museum (link below).

Sources:
1) Denys A. Stocks, Experiments in Egyptian Archaeology, Routledge, London, 2003, pp.129-136.
2)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeS5lrmyD74&lc=z221vztpkkyljt4pg04t1aokgmow4ckzkxz1w1ku0ngpbk0h00410.1544627990618182
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMKmxjJDaUM (between 17:00-20:00)
4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zi7B9-eCJY

- The “detailed lineage” is attributed to mythology since they do talk about the gods and spirits and the only traces and artifacts from Egypt, dating before 3200 B.C. are those of neolithic communities.

- True north can be found without advanced technology.

Sources:
1) Mark Lehner, The Complete Pyramids, Thames & Hudson, London, 1997, pp.212,214.
2)https://www.instructables.com/id/3-Ways-to-Find-North-Without-a-Compass/


- The pyramid shape is the easiest way to achieve a tall building (and it’s really stable). Before the pyramids there were the earth mounds (all over the world in stone age and antiquity), used for tombs or religious centers (for the same reason). There is little mystery that different civilizations discovered this, just like they discovered many other architectural techniques on their own. There are many similarities between Incan and Egyptian stonework, yet no evidence that they had any contact. What Jimmy fails to acknowledge is that those pyramids were built thousands of years apart from each others (the Egyptian ones are much more older then the Incan or the Chinese ones), had different purposes and were built with different materials and techniques.

Reply
Accumulated Wisdom
12/13/2018 06:27:22 pm

What about the "tool containing steel found within the masonry, and discarded"?

The tool marks left on the stones we're not done with copper and abrasives. The "core" found by Sir Flanders Petrie can almost be duplicated with a modern drill.

Are you familiar with the "stone flywheel"? I am not talking about machinery made from stone but, a great way to make a durable mold form.

The Bagdad Battery...Not just a couple with 1.55 average voltage... picture thousands. At the very least, they were electroplating. Archimedes cried "Eureka" when he "discovered" water displacement. Probably due to people like Midas. I guess he had the electric touch. The "water screw" attributed to Archimedes predates him. Goes back to at least Ninevah.

The mathematics attributed to various people like Euclid, Pythagoras actually predates them by thousands of years. Astronomy, mathematics, and the transmutation of metals seem to have been the most jealously guarded secrets.

You are right, there isn't a lost civilization. It boils down to a loss of government. Their secrets have never been lost. They've only recently been shared.

Why have people always fought over the same spots after a reset event? The answer is mundane and yet, PROFOUND.

Now, I need to track down some sources.

Reply
Achilles
12/14/2018 08:02:18 am

I don't know what steel tool you are talking about, please post the source for it. Your points about granite cutting have been addressed in my original comments and I provided sources too, including one video showing how it's done.

Gold plating is possible without electricity. The Bagdad battery does not prove the use of electricity, especially not for bronze age Egyptians. Why?

1) It was dated somewhere at least 1300 years after the construction of the last "true" Egyptian pyramid (namely the pyramid of Ahmose, in the XVIII dynasty)

2) It's a singular find. It's not inconceivable to throw together an iron rod and a bronze tube inside of a ceramic vessel, for thousands of reasons. So it can be simply attributed to coincidence. Just like having lemons doesn't prove that you use them in order to power your LED diode.

3) There is no depiction of electricity being use, no records, no electrical artifacts, etc. On the contrary, all the evidence is pointing that all the ancient people where unaware of electricity.

Accumulated Wisdom
12/15/2018 01:01:59 am

Still tracking down sources.

While I do, please consider "continuity of government" and the "International Seed Bank".

Accumulated Wisdom
12/16/2018 06:34:57 pm

Achilles,

I can not find the book in which, I last came across the claim. I have been told by two Archaeologists, it was a "Steel Bit". Apparently, this piece of Steel was discarded. I was also told by the same two Docs, "Don't put any stock into Howard Vyse. He hoaxed those Heiroglyphs." I do not recall all of the arguments against Vyse. One was improper usage though.

I will keep looking.

achilles
12/17/2018 06:54:54 am

Well, it's not hard to think that a steel tool may be found inside of it, giving that it was entered multiple times across many centuries. Founding a piece of steel inside a pyramid doesn't mean too much, unless you can somehow prove that it dates to dynastic Egypt. It happened to me to be on a dig site where they found a hat from around 1950, in a section that was originally considered untouched.

I heard multiple times that the Khufu graffiti may be a fake, but so far I've seen no good source proving that. Also, as far as I know, a part of the inscription is creeping under another stone (just as big), which suggest that it was done before the stone was placed.

Accumulated Wisdom
12/18/2018 07:16:02 pm

My wife has either moved some of my books, or got rid of them without my knowledge. Because bookmakers haven't gotten together, making books one uniform size, shape, and color, she considers them "clutter".

"We Are Not The First" is one, I am looking for. Don't recall the author's name off the top of my head.

According to Doc, had Vyse not faked the inscription, he would have been broke. "Literally and figuratively". Apparently, Vyse owed a lot of money to people. He was under tremendous stress.

According to Doc, the Steel Bit was "ancient". According to Doc C, He wasn't sure of the age. Doc C was upset because the Steel Bit was thrown away. "Given the unknown origins of Steel, it was foolish to discard it without further investigation."

According to both men, both Archaeologists the Bit was hastily attributed to later Invaders, and thrown away. That seems inconceivable to me.

I would like to see someone retrieve a copper sample from the "King's Shaft" of the Great Pyramid. It would also be interesting to see if Khufu's Mother, or Grandmother was in the so far inaccessible chamber. I have heard of both possibilities being speculated.

Do you know what is under Baalbek and the Temple Mount? Those stones aren't just there to create a flat observational platform.

Hint: Turkey

achilles
12/19/2018 04:12:15 am

There is no evidence that the bronze age Egyptians used steel, and a claim of a supposed eye witness of the "tool" does not change that. In the XXI century egyptologists found a steel rod in the back of the Sphinx, left from the XIX century attempts to drill through it and find a chamber. i don't know what is under Baalbek.

Glenn
1/12/2020 08:32:01 am

To a certain point I agree with general feel that the video of that guy, Jimmy, are dubious. However, your arguments are just as hollow as his. Not one of the arguments/evidence you call upon are actually conclusive. To the contrary. The "hieroglyph" naming Kufu, in the Great Pyramid is not accurate and it was written by an unsteady hand. Surely you will agree that whoever built such a monumental structure would have a few bags of grain or a barrel of beer for a better and more literate "scribe". Why else would you yourself call it, correctly, "graffiti"? Because that is what the scribbling really is. A graffiti left by some later visitor, almost certainly from the Middle Ages, as the pigment used suggests.

Then you mislead your readers by saying that "Pyramids do have inscriptions inside the burial chamber, from the 5th dynasty onward and they are called “the pyramid texts”.". Completely misleading for the argument is about the three colossal pyramids, not the small ones, which indeed do have funerary inscriptions. The three big pyramids do not have a single hieroglyph in them.

And you go on and on, debunking yourself, for as much as that other guy deserves it, you are incapable of actually debunking him with the real evidence. And there is quite a lot there. You are just too simple to find it.

Reply
ACHILLES
1/14/2020 04:30:37 am

Hi there!

1) The graffiti is conclusive evidence and it is by all means accurate (ch-u-f-u) open up any book about hieroglyphs and see for yourself. This whole claim was made up by Sitchin, who claimed that it was written with the "re" glyph. Pictures of the graffiti prove that Sitchin is wrong (surprisingly...), that is the "ch" glyph.

The graffiti is a quarry mark, just as many other quarry marks found in Egypt (all on the side of the stone that will be hidden, they did not did this on the facade blocks), even the color is the same. Inscriptions in one of the queen's shafts have been found recently by a robot and they have the same color.

The graffiti was done before the room was completed since 1) the chamber was sealed until the XIX century when its floor was blown up and 2) there cartouch continues under another stones, paint being visible in the cracks. Therefore, it is impossible for the cartouch to be added later and it's a very conclusive piece of evidence.

2) This is not true. Jimmy claims that pyramids don't have inscriptions, which is false. The rule is that the early royal tombs do not have inscriptions. Just look at the tomb of Shepseskaf (not a pyramid) is just as plain as the one of Khufu.

3) Your comment is shallow, contains bad arguments and false information, which I addressed above. If you have any real complain or debunking, feel free to present it. I'm looking forward to it.

Nick Redfern
12/13/2018 10:46:25 am

Jason

When you say "There is no factual support given for any of this..." that is correct. But, there is related data that at least provides at least some degree of support.

For example (as one of more than a few examples), Gerald Haines, in his paper on the CIA's history of involvement in the UFO subject states that in the 70s/80s...

"...Agency analysts from the Life Science Division of OSI and OSWR officially devoted a small amount of their time to issues relating to UFOs. These included counterintelligence concerns that the Soviets and the KGB were using US citizens and UFO groups to obtain information on sensitive US weapons development programs (such as the Stealth aircraft)..."

You can find Haines' full article at this link at the CIA's website:

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/97unclass/ufo.html

It's important to note that much of the Stealth aircraft technology that Haines referred to was tested out at Area 51. So, to a degree at least, this does make a connection between Area 51-tested Stealth technology, the world of counterintelligence, the KGB and UFOs.

Reply
Machala
12/13/2018 06:31:57 pm

Mr. Redfern, you are more accurate than I think others will believe. I'm on my Android, so I can't go into much detail other than to say that during the time you are speaking of, I was living in Sedona, Arizona. There were lots of UFO sightings in that area during those days. In actuality, they were very strange and very scary Unidentified Flying Objects - Stealth airplanes - whose existence was of course, vehemently denied.

Regarding disinformation and deceptions carried out by the U.S. from the 60's - 80's under the Alien/UFO umbrella of counter-intelligence, let me assure you that there were more than one small unit involved in this operation , and yes, much of the rationale was to create a cover for our weapons, missiles, and aircraft research and development projects.

Reply
Jockobadger
12/13/2018 11:39:21 am

Hi Jason, Great post! Thanks.

I don't find it the least bit difficult to believe that the DOD/CI engaged in just this sort of shenanigans i.e. promoting the notion that the US had obtained alien tech. Why not? Just one more thing for our erstwhile enemies to worry about, waste resources researching, etc. An intelligence win, if nothing else.


I've personally come to the conclusion that we (US) do not have aliens or alien tech in our possession e.g. wreckage from Roswell/Girardeau/wherever, nor do any of our friends or foes. However, it does appear that something is in our airspace, the Russkies airspace, China's, etc., and none of us know what it is.


There is real evidence that various gov't entities have been attempting to study this phenom, whatever it is, including the Sovs back in the day, and most likely they're still at it, just as I believe we are (though I think it's mostly been farmed out to black budget privateers.) No FOIA probs that way. Some time ago I read several articles that suggested that a good deal of Russkie gubmint info on this subject was obtained when the USSR collapsed. Don't have a citation at the moment, but I'll check it out. My recollection was that most of it was reflective of our own results i.e. "wtf is going on."

Pure speculation of course, with just a hint of educated guesswork, all wrapped up in a nice, tight tin-foil hat (fully adjustable, btw, so that one can squeeeeze out that last bit of conspirinalia).

KI7NNE

Reply
American Cool "Disco" Dan
12/15/2018 12:30:33 pm

People who say "erstwhile" usually don't know that it means.

Reply
Riley V
12/13/2018 02:31:29 pm

Anyone who has ever spent any time on a USAF base knows that rumors and disinformation are as common as 3.2 beer.
I do think there may be some truth to the story, especially given the lengths that the Government went to so as to mask new technology.
Now, given all that, wouldn’t the USSR Remote Viewer teams be able to tell what was real and what was propaganda? /s

Reply
Accumulated Wisdom
12/15/2018 01:35:33 am

@RILEY V

I had a college professor with a mind slanted towards conspiracies. This professor had gone on for days about what he called "atomic powder". His exact words were, "Put a little bit in someone's coffee, they get cancer and die within a month". Let's just say his paranoia kicked into high gear, when that Congressman looking into UFOs died. I am not saying that is what happened to the man. Just what my professor apparently thought. I have to admit...the timing did seem dubious.

Reply
American Cool "disco" Dan
12/15/2018 10:59:19 am

Screw cancer. If you put cyanide in my coffee I'll be dead within minutes and many people would be happy.

bezalel
12/17/2018 08:24:39 pm

Incontheivable

Obviously you have not spent the last few years developing a resistance to iocane powder

Cyanide I mean

Reply

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