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BBC Journalist's Error Sparks Claims of Ice Age Migration from Africa to India

10/4/2018

22 Comments

 
Recently, Maharashtra state archaeologist Tejas Garge announced that his team had uncovered petroglyphs depicting humans and animals. “Our first deduction from examining these petroglyphs is that they were created around 10,000 BC,” Garge told the BBC. When the BBC reported on the discovery of 12,000-year-old petroglyphs in the Konkan region of the western Indian state of Maharashtra, a strange choice made by BBC Marathi reporter Mayuresh Konnur (or whoever translated his work in to English) has led to a hyperdiffusionist claim that Ice Age Indians traveled from Africa and brought knowledge of animals like rhinoceroses and hippopotamuses with them. Consider this reaction from the fringe: “So, how are archaeologists going to explain the thousands of rock carvings discovered on hillocks in the Konkan region of western Maharashtra that show images of hippos, rhinos and other never-seen-in-India creatures interacting with humans 12.000 years ago?” Paul Seaburn of Mysterious Universe ignorantly asked.
​The BBC’s English-language article on the discovery had asked how ancient Indians might have carved images of animals that are not native to western India. “Did the people who created them migrate to India from Africa?” the BBC asked.
 
But this question represented the translator’s own ignorance. In fact, the evidence on the BBC’s own website demonstrates that the fault lies entirely with the employee tasked with adapting for English-language readers an article originally published in Marathi on the BBC’s Marathi-language service. Given the differences between the two articles, I assume that Konnur did not translate his own work.
 
The Marathi version of the article is much longer and has many more qualifiers. In it, Garge is more circumspect about the age of the rock art. In the original article, Garge said that he dated the petroglyphs by comparing them to rock art in other areas of India where similar figures date between 25,000 and 3,000 years ago. While the Google Translate version of the Marathi text is quite garbled and unclear, if I have begun to pick up the rudiments of the language correctly (and I admit to having only a superficial understanding of Marathi after a very brief study), he seemed to say that the petroglyphs were provisionally dated to 12,000 years old on stylistic grounds, but could be as young as 700 years old or as old as 40,000 years—“kamīta kamī 700 varṣān̄cā āṇi kāhī ṭhikāṇī 40 hajāra varṣaṁ” (“minimally 700 years old and in a few places 40,000 years old”).
 
The BBC left out much of the archaeological information from the Marathi version and mistranslated its own article, adding in other information that was not present in the original. Here is the original, cleaned up from Google Translate as best I can read Marathi with the aid of a dictionary, followed by the English language version:
Translated Original
Surprisingly, some animals, such as the rhinoceros and hippo, that appear in these petroglyphs are not found in the Konkan region. But where did this man [the artist] see them? Did he immigrate here during the time that these creatures lived in parts of Konkan? Many such questions have arisen as a result of this study.
 
English Version
But this begs the question of why some of the petroglyphs depict animals like hippos and rhinoceroses which aren't found in this part of India. Did the people who created them migrate to India from Africa? Or were these animals once found in India? […] It is hoped that some of these questions will eventually be answered.
​You can see where the English-language adapter for the BBC has imposed his or her own ignorance on the article. Reference to Africa does not appear in the original. This is problematic because, as you might know, India has rhinoceroses and once had hippopotamuses.
 
The Indian rhinoceros, justly famous, has been known in the West since the time of Ctesias, the Greek writer who described a “unicorn” in his fantastical account of India that was almost certainly this rhinoceros. Other ancient accounts of the creature appear in Megasthenes 15 (in Strabo, Georgraphy 15.1.56); Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 3.1-5; Pseudo-Callisthenes, Alexander Romance 3.16-17; etc. India was the source for rhinoceroses in the West down to European exploration of sub-Saharan Africa in early modern times.
 
The rhinoceros’s historic range in India covered the Indo-Gangetic Plain, which is north of Maharastan. I am no expert in fossil Indian rhinoceroses. There is, however, a 1946 book on the subject by Dirk Albert Hooijer entitled Prehistoric and Fossil Rhinoceroses from the Malay Archipelago and India that I have not read but whose title speaks to the larger range of the rhinoceros in the Ice Age.
 
It’s true that India does not have hippopotamuses, but it did in the past. Paleontologists have unearthed remains of the hippopotamus and other members of its family in India, where the animals lived down to the end of the last Ice Age. It is not clear to me (since I have not seen a picture) that the petroglyph animal is in fact intended to be a hippopotamus, but given the date and location, it is not impossible.
 
The bottom line is that we are already seeing the birth of fringe claim about Ice Age travel between India and Africa based largely on one guy’s mistake in adapting a Marathi article into English without sufficient background in the ecology and paleontology of India.
22 Comments
A Buddhist
10/4/2018 08:55:29 am

It is this type of collective ignorance and apathy about researching areas of knowledge that are little known to the writer and readers that, in other circumstances, has spawned the Mandala Effect nonsense. People involved in both the Mandala Effect and the translation of this article (as well as comments about the translation of the article) would rather assume that their limited knowledge bases and memories are correct and the world deviant than recognize the limitations in their knowledge and memories.

Such apathy leads many people into conspiracy theories (in order to explain the world's alleged deviance) and may encourage people to remain theistic despite many excellent arguments for atheism, to their and the world's detriment.

Reply
AmericanCool"Disco"Dan
10/4/2018 10:57:12 pm

I think you're misremembering "the Mandala effect". You may now tell your family and friends that you have been corrected by the best. Perhaps straying too far from the stupittika.

Reply
A Buddhist
10/5/2018 08:36:44 am

AmericanCool"Disco"Dan: If you were the best at correcting, you would correct without insulting.

Maybe you are joking about my misremembering the so-called "Mandala effect", since it is all about people remembering things different from conventional reality. For your information, however, I understand the "Mandala effect" to be when multiple people more or less independently remember something as being one way where evidence from books, etc., establish it as being another way. The stranger believers in the "Mandala effect" think that this divergence is due not to their faulty memories but due to reality changing. In the same way as stranger believers in the "Mandala effect" conclude that there must be a more complicated explanation for their discovered divergences than faulty memories and ignorance, so some readers of the English Language BBC article have concluded that there must be a more complicated explanation for Indian art showing fauna than their own ignorance of Indian fauna from the region where the art was found.

I hope that this explanation, politely delivered, is helping you to understand my earlier comment.

Peter B
10/5/2018 04:08:32 pm

You're both misremembering. It's the "Mandela effect". As in the Sainted Nelson.

Americancool"Disco"dan
10/5/2018 05:33:10 pm

I didn't misremember. I looked it up to check my understanding and showed a Buddhuist one corner of the handkerchief; he chose not to find the other three.

A Buddhist
10/5/2018 07:24:13 pm

AmericanCool"Disco"Dan: If you had looked up the "Mandela effect" properly, you would have realized that I had misremembered its spelling, spelling it as "Mandala effect". Unless...is this the one of the handkerchief that you refer to? If so, then you are not the best corrector, because you are defective in two ways.
1. The best correctors refrain from insulting the people whom they correct. It would be different if you had written something along the lines of "perhaps you need to check your reading comprehension", because such a remark, although hurtful to some, is a statement of fact that can be verified by the person being addressed. but your use of the term "stupittika", implying through the garbled reference to the Tipitaka that I adore that I am stupid, is merely low-brow name-calling.
2. The best correctors specifically identify the errors and suggest improvements rather than leaving exceptionally vague clues. I mean "you're misremembering "the Mandala effect"" could mean anything in terms of dealing with the Mandela effect improperly, because people can misremember in so many ways.

Funny
10/4/2018 10:58:50 am

Wait a second, so BBC is no more credible source? I thought that mainstream media never lie, they are never promoting fringe things and we should believe everything what is shown on BBC, CNN and what are believed by scientists who are dealing with history. Obviously the truth is that it's impossible nowadays to find a credible website, because everywhere people are making mistakes or pushing own agenda.

Reply
BigNick
10/4/2018 11:25:02 am

Yes Comrade, is very concerning. I having lost all faith in western news source now

Reply
Dan
10/4/2018 11:50:26 pm

Oh, Man! Good catch!

😂😂😂

Don’t know if you can see my emojis but. ROFL!

GEE
10/4/2018 12:25:11 pm

"Truth" is different things to different people
Start using the word facts instead
You sound like an amateur

Reply
Oog the cave man
10/4/2018 11:57:23 am

Me Hunt Rhinoceros in India. Me get in trouble for hunting endangered animal. Me become fringe blogger. Me become media sensation. Me run for POTUS. Me win. Me take large dump on American Television. Me impeached. Me win impeachment vote in old man Senate. Hurray for me.

Reply
E.P. Grondine
10/4/2018 04:00:53 pm

"The bottom line is that we are already seeing the birth of fringe claim about Ice Age travel between India and Africa based largely on one guy’s mistake in adapting a Marathi article into English without sufficient background in the ecology and paleontology of India."

NO.

What we are seeing is the result of some peoples' inability to come to terms with the extinction of mega-fauna after the Second of the Holocene Start Impact Events.

Reply
AmericanCool"Disco"Dan
10/4/2018 10:46:53 pm

What we are seeing is a beedees riddled old man who can only talk about one thing. Vide infra.

"E.P. GRONDINE
10/4/2018 10:03:17 am
Since you won't get up from your computer and go out and get laid, may I suggest that as an alternative you go fuck yourself."

Note the recent date.

Reply
E.P. Grondine
10/5/2018 11:06:44 am

Since you won't get up from your computer and go out and get laid, may I suggest that as an alternative you go fuck yourself.

Reply
Oog the cave man
10/5/2018 02:00:14 pm

AmericanCool"Disco"Dan. used to be Americanegro. He only have three inch dick and working computer. He have no life except for this blog he has hi jacked.

Reply
Jockobadger
10/5/2018 03:48:28 pm

Hello. I've been reading Jason's blog for some time and usually enjoy both the content and the comments. It's pretty clear to me that most of the folks who take the time to comment here are well-read, capable of quality critical thinking, and are decent writers. Makes for fun reading when I'm bored to tears here at work - like right now.


This a.m., when I visited the blog for the first time in awhile, I stumbled across a couple of references to what sounds like the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis (posts by E.P. Grondine, I believe.) Is that right? The context suggests that there might be, or at least has been, some controversy about that hypothesis amongst the malingerers here? I'm an earth scientist (geologist/geotechnical engineer) and love to hear other's ideas on this sort of thing. This is only my second-ever post so please don't rip me a new one right out of the chute. I'd just like to participate in the discussion!


Jocko


PS - I'm also a UFO buff, but not a ufologist because those people are way smarter than me. I saw one once.

Reply
Doc Rock
10/5/2018 09:31:33 pm

You do realize that you are in a setting where having a degree and some level of knowledge directly related to a subject under discussion tends to count against you?

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter. Would be a nice change of pace from seeing E.P. post a bunch of links to non-academic blogs and podcasts followed by the usual cat fight with the usual suspect.

I eagerly await your comments with toddy in hand.....

Reply
Jockobadger
10/8/2018 12:35:01 pm

Hi Doc,

I hope you enjoyed your toddy(s) the other night! I was away over the weekend and just returned to work where I do all of my non-work related writing.

My alma mater (University of Washington) has an excellent quaternary research dept and I recall a good deal of discussion at a social function I attended when all this bolide impact business first cropped up - 10-ish years ago +/-?. I thought it sounded quite plausible - the presence and dating of the various markers was cool and the authors did a good job of presenting it. I was impressed with the hypothetical climate change impacts and how they matched up pretty nicely with the Younger Dryas ice core info. Anyway, I just sort of followed along as the fighting started. I haven't read up on it lately (I will) but as I recall, challenges were soon presented by credible folks re: dating/presence of some of the chemical markers and in particular the evidence for extraordinary wildfire events. The carbon/black mats became a hot topic (ha ha - Holocene humor.) I'm not sure at all, but it sounds like E.P.G. is a true believer re: the impact scenario and I'll have to do a bit of reading here to find out what the controversies might be. One thing I am pretty certain of is that I believe the megafaunal extinction began some time before the erstwhile bolide impact event (could be wrong, of course!) I think the extinction was mostly thought to be the work of the Amerindians, but I was always a bit suspicious of that. Climate change seemed to be the real culprit, but was that change caused entirely or in part by a bolide strike? I'll look into the recent stuff.

I do enjoy a good cat fight, about pretty much any topic, as long as I can avoid too many scratches myself. I prefer to egg on others whenever possible - stay above the fray or skulking on the sidelines. I look forward to a long and rewarding correspondence.


Best,


Badger

Kal
10/6/2018 05:00:57 pm

"The Mandela effect" should probably be Mandela Affect, as it is about people and mis remembering things, not about 'effects' as on objects, not people.

"Beam me up, Scotty." was never uttered on the original 78 episodes of Star Trek, as it was "Scoty, beam me up", that is until the 2016 film where Kirk does say it.

It is a false memory, this affect, as was mis remembering when Mandela died, 2013 being correct.

It is not 'in a parallel timeline' even if that sounds cool. That is science fantasy.

In a parallel mis remembered universe, the pee tape of Trump in the Russian hotel room exists. If it fif, someone would have leaked it.

Even the wiki on mandela effect is mis recalled.





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Jockobadger
10/8/2018 12:52:30 pm

The Berenstain Bears always threw me when we read them as kids. I didn't like the "stain" part of it because it sounded disgusting. However, it did have the effect of causing me to remember it very well. When all this Mandala/Mandela/Whatever stuff came up, that was one of the examples cited and it didn't fool me for a second. It was Berenstain, not Berenstein, right?

What's a fif?

Badger

Reply
David Bradbury
10/9/2018 03:30:01 pm

From the English version of the article, quoting one of the researchers:
"we even enlisted schools in our efforts to find them"

... and sure enough, they started turning up by the thousand.
Uh-oh ...

Reply
Finn
10/10/2018 03:00:04 am

It's possible this "hippo" was a palaeocryptic species. It existed when humans arrived, and disappeared after. We have some teeth suggesting hexaprodotontids lived in India (and possibly the entire clade evolved in Asia, and the pygmy hippo migrated to Africa later), so it's not outside the realm of possibility there were species that have since disappeared.

Another possibility is just populations of hippos outside the known range, which were later wiped out by humans. Hippos are capable of traversing large distances, including oceans (Madagascan hippos got there that way), and have managed to well in escape situations - Colombia has some after Pable Escobar released his, and there was a case where an Australian pig-hunter killed a pygmy hippo in the Kimberley region - thought to have escaped from a failed animal park a decade earlier. So the idea of a population of hippos being outside of Africa isn't *impossible*.

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