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Brien Foerster Accuses Me of Libel, Says Puma Punku Stones Came from Outside "Fenced Area" at Site

4/14/2014

26 Comments

 
This morning in a comment on my blog Brien Foerster accused me of libeling him for, essentially, taking him at his word. (The comment came from an email address associated with Foerster’s business, so I believe he was in fact the author.) In reporting that the Purdue Rare Isotope Measurement Laboratory refused to conduct destructive testing on a sample of rock allegedly from Puma Punku, I said that Foerster had chipped fragments from some of the stones at the site and had removed them from Bolivia. Foerster accused me of making false and libelous statements:
No artifacts were chipped from, nor were they taken from the Puma Punku site, as in, within the fenced area. Your allegations are both false and libelous...
In my first post on the subject, I suggested that he had more likely picked up broken fragments from the ground, and I regret not including that same caveat in my second post, though I did link to the initial discussion in my follow-up post. I have corrected the second post to acknowledge this error.

Brien Foerster is a public figure since he is an author, television personality, and advocate for the existence of a lost civilization. As such, for me to libel him I must not only be wrong but have shown a reckless disregard for the truth. The fact that I examined his project and compared it to a wide range of cultural heritage laws demonstrates that I was hardly reckless in applying his project’s own words and statements to the applicable laws.
On the Indiegogo.com page devoted to raising money for the failed project, David Swenson and Brien Foerster wrote the following: “This project will be carried out to support the work of Brien Foerster, of Cusco [sic] Peru, who has been involved in the study of ancient people and their associated megalithic buildings. Samples of andesite stone from Tiwanaku and Puma Punku that have come from the megaliths will be shipped from Peru.”

On the site’s “updates” page, David Swenson provided photographs of Brien Foerster at Tiwanaku and Puma Punku examining the “flat surface” of the stones, and he then stated that he had three samples including one of the flat surfaces that had been removed from Bolivia to Peru for shipment to the United States, and he posted a request from George Bayer suggesting that Foerster obtain an additional sample of polished rock for further testing. Since Foerster was resident in Peru and the only figure involved in the shipments to be in Peru, the obvious implication is that he was the party sending the samples.

I inferred from such discussions and statements that Foerster had obtained the samples himself directly from the megaliths at the Bolivian site. Foerster now suggests that it is libelous to make this inference from his fundraising website’s published material. The only way to collect samples, of course, would be to remove them from the rock intentionally or to collect samples that broke off naturally or through earlier vandalism, unless he purchased them from a dealer, which is a whole different level of problematic.

No matter how they were obtained, Foerster and Swenson claim that the rock samples are in fact part of the megaliths in the Tiwanaku area. Therefore they fall under the U.S.-Bolivian bilateral agreement on the importation of pre-Columbian artifacts, which has been in effect since 1989 and currently is renewed through 2016. It states, in part:
Further, it was found that the archaeological evidence necessary to interpret the early history of Bolivian culture is in jeopardy from pillage. The pillage is widespread, on-going, and destroying the archaeological record of Bolivia. […]  The restricted archaeological materials range in date from approximately 10,000 B.C. to A.D. 1532, and include objects of ceramic, textile, featherwork, metals, stone, shell, bone, wood and basketry; as well as human remains. […] Bolivian objects of types described in the Designated List may enter the U.S. only if they have an export permit issued by the Bolivian government, or documentation that they left Bolivia prior to the effective date of the restriction: December 7, 2001.
Megalithic fragments from Tiwanaku would prima facie fall under the pre-1532 stonework restrictions. I suppose it is possible that Foerster has been sitting on the samples since before 2001, but he would have needed to provide that documentation to the U.S. State Department in order to import the objects. Bolivia, however, has laws dating back decades that restrict export, and the country does not typically issue export permits to amateur researchers. Peru and Bolivia have a separate agreement with each other and Peru also with the United States, and he did not indicate that he followed either of these export requirements either. The agreement with Peru, enacted in 1997 and renewed in 2012, forbids the importation into the U.S. of pre-Columbian objects from Peru without an export permit. (Note: It also explicitly forbids the export of deformed or elongated skulls or parts thereof.)

Instead, Foerster claims that he did not break any Bolivian or international law because he obtained the rock samples from “outside the fenced area” at the Tiwanaku archaeological site. This admission confirms that Foerster takes responsibility for the collection of the fragments. Pursuant to the U.S.-Bolivian bilateral agreement, such rocks are pre-Columbian artifacts subject to import restrictions no matter whether they were found inside or outside the fence surrounding the main archaeological site.

I can’t claim to be a lawyer, and it’s possible that Foerster followed the law and legally exported the items. But he hasn’t provided any evidence that this is the case, and PRIME did not receive any documentation to this effect either. Given all of the documentation I did find from Bolivian, Peruvian, and American treaties and laws, I fail to see what other conclusion I could have reached.

But if Foerster would like to pursue a libel claim against me, he had better start by showing the export permits or the documentation that his samples were removed from the site in accordance with Bolivian law and imported into the United States in accordance with U.S. law.
26 Comments
Cathleen Anderson
4/14/2014 06:24:09 am

As you indicate, he must first prove the claims are false. Should he fail to produce that info, you might want to look at accusing him of defamation.

Also if he does sue and fail to provide that information he is looking at some rather severe court sanctions for bringing a frivolous action.

Reply
RLewis
4/14/2014 06:34:13 am

I guess he's kind of OK when you call his theories crazy and bizarre, but just don't comment about his research methods.

Reply
KIF
4/14/2014 06:58:57 am

It's always best to address the subject matter without names attached, if at all possible - if names are used it's best to quote someone

Reply
Jason Colavito link
4/14/2014 07:03:03 am

You'd like this to read like Page Six? "Sources say one top ancient astronaut theorist who lives in Peru is shipping pieces of Puma Punku back to America but hasn't shown anyone an export license!"

RLewis
4/14/2014 07:22:13 am

"Rumor has it that deranged rock enthusiast challenges history-insiders' authority to question unsubstantiated claims".

Reply
Jason Colavito link
4/14/2014 07:35:31 am

Blind item!

Reply
Only Me
4/14/2014 08:07:48 am

I guess Foerster's theme song is "It Wasn't Me" by Shaggy.

Reply
Dan
4/14/2014 10:38:07 am

Foerster is never going to answer your question about how the stones were removed because either answer implicates him. Regardless of this "fenced in" nonsense, anything removed from the site is criminal. He can't directly admit to that. If the stones are not from PP, then he's committed fraud upon the people who contributed to this project.

Reply
Judith Bennett
4/14/2014 06:39:01 pm

There's a highly amusing thread on this subject in the Megalithomania Facebook group. The admin of said site is Hugh Newman, whom I'm sure we all know and love from Ancient Aliens. Anyway, here's what Brien had to say on the subject over there:

Brien Foerster The samples were from outside the fence of Puma Punku in a public area. As you may be aware, Puma Punku was dynamited to make the nearby railroad bed. The Peruvian archaeologist who is in charge of the DNA work is Felipe. Other labs are being sought out for the stone samples.

17 hours ago · Like · 6

I don't think he quite understands what he's just admitted to.

Reply
idoubtit link
4/14/2014 11:45:32 am

He threatened me with libel for just quoting a news piece. He seems to throw that around with reckless abandon. That's what people who are insecure about their evidence do.

Reply
Beata Van Berkom
4/14/2014 06:24:20 pm

You seem so biased. It really hurts your credibility.

Reply
Judith Bennett
4/14/2014 06:30:57 pm

Threatening people with lawsuits is an old tactic of Brien's. Given that his understanding of libel is on the same level as his grasp of the scientific method, I'd say you're safe.

Frankly, Foerster should be concerned. He's been small fry enough that he's been able to fly under the radar thus far, but that's beginning to change. People are beginning to ask him questions about permits, both for the Puma Punku stones and for the DNA samples exported from Peru. Thus far he's not provided evidence of either. That's not terribly surprising, as neither country gives permission easily, and certainly not to tour guides as opposed to accredited scientists or archaeologists.

Reply
Eric Stewart
4/15/2014 12:05:58 am

First Foerster said DNA results were released with "astonishing results".

There was no university or scientist named and no one got to see even a portion of the release, i.e. it hadn't been released.

When asked about this, Brien asked people to be patient and that these things take time. My question: if we have to wait then don't say it's been released.

Soon he is getting promoted by other charlatans like Alex Jones. That is its own argument.

Not long after, it comes out that the only alleged analysis done is from a researcher whose last claim to notoriety was attempting to prove that bigfoot is a human-ape hybrid.

If you were Perdue, would you waste faculty hours and thousands of dollars on this guy? Given his propensity for deception and lack of critical application of intellect, is it sensible to assume he was even providing what he says he was.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
4/15/2014 12:24:29 am

That's the problem, isn't it? To prove that the fragments are what he says they are is to apparently admit to exporting artifacts without an export permit--or at the very least refusing to provide this documentation to relevant parties. I took him at his word that these were in fact megalith fragments from Puma Punku, and he got upset at the consequences of that claim.

By the way: The U.S.-Peruvian bilateral agreement also forbids the export of deformed skulls and their fragments, which would seem to implicate him again in his DNA testing of one such skull's fragments sent from Peru here to the U.S.

Reply
Mandalore
4/15/2014 02:00:53 am

Perhaps the Peruvian embassy should be made aware of these activities.

Reply
Mark L
4/15/2014 02:46:40 am

I've mentioned this several times on here, now, but in case anyone's new to Jason's blog: during the actual timespan of the Indiegogo campaign, I wrote to Indiegogo and said "there's laws against what he's saying he's doing, unless he has the right permits. He's not mentioned having those permits".

The response from Indiegogo was "maybe he's got them and just didn't mention it", which I suppose covers their asses legally but, if anything, shows a conspiracy to help him out!

I would be delighted if this became a more serious matter. He's either admitted to breaking the law or he's going to be caught in a fairly hefty lie. Which is it?

Reply
Kal
4/15/2014 09:23:35 am

This person who is threatening you with a lawsuit is full of it. No lawyer in the land is going to take his word, or a case like that, so you're not going to be sued. More likely this person does not even have any artifacts, real or not, and is covering his hide.

Your site is clearly an editorial page and does not look like it libels anyone. But I am not a lawyer.

Claiming a lawsuit on a blog usually happens when someone can't win an argument. His having one with you is ironic. If this person does not understand what an editorial blog is, he should look it up.

I suspect again that he doesn't even have any fragments, or that they're fakes. Just my opinion. As they said in an old movie, 'Show me the money'. No samples. No real testing. No credentials.

"Eliminate the impossible and the improbable, no matter how absurd, must be the truth."

Reply
John link
4/15/2014 11:59:57 am

I agree w/ Mark L's last sentence, either BF is lying, or he broke the law.

Thanks to Judith B for posting a vid of BF purchasing 2 skulls in Paracas on Bad Archaeology website. I doubt BF had the proper permits for this purchase, not to mention the skull(s) he's already brought into the US.

P.S. BF did leave a comment on BA's site @ the end of the Paracas Skulls article saying, "IF U want to know the original story, why not ask me?" So I asked him what was the original story, but he hasn't replied.

JC, don't worry, BF is just trying to intimidate you...keep up the good work!

Reply
John link
4/15/2014 12:15:54 pm

Here's that vid of BF purchasing the elongated skulls in Paracas,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNJq_KSkHiM

Reply
Only Me
4/18/2014 06:53:34 pm

What's really amazing about Foerster being willing to "procure" samples from Puma Punku, for testing the age of the site, is the fact he must either not be aware of the following news story or chooses to ignore it.

*Ancient temple found under Lake Titicaca

The ruins of an ancient temple have been found by international archaeologists under Lake Titicaca, the world's highest lake. A terrace for crops, a long road and an 800-metre (2,600 feet) long wall was also found under the waters of the lake, sited in the Andes mountains between Bolivia and Peru.

Dating back 1,000 to 1,500 years ago, the ruins are pre-Incan. They have been attributed to the indigenous Tiwanaku or Tiahuanaco people, said Lorenzo Epis, the Italian scientist leading the Atahuallpa 2000 scientific expedition.

The holy temple measures 200m by 50m (660ft by 160ft) almost twice the size of an average football pitch. More than 200 dives were made into the lake, to depths of as much as 30m (100ft), to record the ruins on film.

The Incas, who built Machu Picchu, believed they originated from the lake. The explorers found the temple after following a submerged road, in an area of the lake not far from Copacabana town. The complete findings of the 30-member team, backed by the scientific group Akakor Geographical Exploring, are to be published in November.

The team also hopes to eventually raise the archaeological remains to the surface.

Legends of lost city

The lake has long drawn fascination with various legends around it, including one of an underwater city called Wanaku and another of Inca gold lost by the Spanish. The temple exists, but there is no submerged city

The Incas also regarded the lake as the birthplace of their civilisation, and in their myth, the Children of The Sun emerged out of the waters.

Stories of the lost treasure were enough to draw the famous French oceanographer Jacques Cousteau to explore the lake. However, he discovered only ancient pottery.

National Geographic also launched an expedition in 1988.

The Tiahuanaco culture lived on the shores of the lake before becoming part of the Incan empire, based in Cusco, Peru.

The Bolivian Government has said it will provide financial and technical support to preserve the ruins.

"This means our civilisations have left more footprints than we had thought," said Antonio Eguino, Bolivia's vice-minister of culture.*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/892616.stm

Reply
Kingsnake link
4/21/2014 07:47:42 am

Jason, contact me at my email address.

Reply
Muriell
8/30/2014 02:54:20 am

Yes, this is exactly the way to fight agains someone who is dangerous for the stablishment, to use the weapons created to sustain the stablishment, such police . Easier than help him to find enough money to investigate in order to get final answers wich seems not to be interesting for those so called scientific minds.

Reply
Rob
9/29/2015 01:30:51 am

Interesting that people appear to be more interested in mocking Mr. Foerster's findings and seeing that he gets busted for presumably exporting artifacts out of Peru and Bolivia illegally than actually lending a hand toward much needed research. Could it possibly be that the lack assistance from within the scientific community has driven him to the extreme (if illegal) measures of trasporting these artifacts out of country for deeper analysis?

Reply
John
10/29/2015 03:42:11 pm

Hi JC, Don't worry, this is the typical Fringe response to those who don't imm. accept them @ their word. (SC tried it on me, but ALL were empty threats.) Keep up the good work.

I refer you to Kal's earlier comments as he was right on the money. A good Lawyer could swing a given case either way due to the ambiguity of existing Copyright Laws.



Does anyone know what the line of large stones that extends starting from some distance away from Puma Punku to Lake Titicaca is called? And has anyone done any research on these stones?

Reply
Jeff Carter link
7/24/2016 01:26:53 pm

seriously, don't you have anything better to do with your time? Try being less confrontational, you'll find lif a lot less stressful and much more enjoyable.

Reply
randy
3/24/2017 01:46:50 am


Jason, lets find a little money, and a news person down south; who will investigate this likely fraud. The news person can present their findings to the public and the authorities. Our funding will cover the news persons costs.
let me know where to send my funds.

Reply

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