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British Tabloid and "Ancient Origins" Recycle Atlantis-in-America Claim

7/1/2020

9 Comments

 
Finding Atlantis is such a staple of internet click-bait that it’s hardly a surprise when a new claim arises. If you believe the British tabloids, Atlantis has been found every three months for decades now. Today’s claim comes to us from The Express, summarizing a video lecture Christos A. Djonis made on Ancient Origins. It should sound familiar, though, because it’s the same claim that Djonis made in 2016 and also the same claim that appeared on America Unearthed before that. According to the Express article, Djonis has picked up a few things from America Unearthed, too, now claiming that the Minoans stole copper from America, as Scott Wolter rather ridiculously argued years ago. He also has added a claim picked up from Gavin Menzies that an American tobacco beetle was found in Minoan remains at Santorini, though it was actually an indigenous beetle from the Bronze Age. Rather than rewrite my analysis of Djonis’s poor evidence, let me repeat my 2016 article debunking his nonsense:
Back in 2013, I discussed the work of Christos A. Djonis, a fringe speculator who believes that Plato’s Atlantis dialogues have been incorrectly translated and that his own translation revealed that Atlantis was actually the Cyclades through his unique decision to rearrange the word order of the English translation by following the Greek word order irrespective of grammar. Well, Djonis is back again, this time with claims that the ancient Greeks discovered America.
 
Djonis begins his article with Atlantis—of course!—and disingenuously dismisses Atlantis’ claim to be America (a longshot to start with) by saying that “scholars and researchers” have found that “proper translation” of Plato yields a Mediterranean location. That would be a reference to himself and his 2013 book Uchronia.
 
Instead, he focuses first on Mark McMenamin’s claim that a Carthaginian coin depicts a map of the world, including the Americas. McMenamin, a geologist, made the claim in 1996 and it was featured on America Unearthed a few years ago. As I mentioned then, the so-called “map” is so small, a few millimeters, that it is all but beyond the ability of ancient artisans to have carved into a mold in the detail he claims for it: “Ancient dies simply weren’t that good to have such tiny pictures, and McMenamin relied on computer enhancement to ‘restore’ the map and make it visible, a telltale sign of problems.” The blobs he calls continents are almost certainly decorative.
 
Anyway, it’s a bit disconcerting that Djonis doesn’t seem to be aware that McMenamin’s “map” claims emerged because of two Classical texts that alleged that the Carthaginians had discovered a large and wealthy island in the Atlantis: Pseudo-Aristotle, De mirabilis auscultationibus 84 and Diodorus Siculus, Library 5.19-20. Both texts specify that the land was an island located a few days’ sail from the African coast. At the time, it would have taken weeks or even months to cross the Atlantic (Columbus took five weeks; in the 1700s it still took 50 days), so either the texts that allegedly support the discovery of America are wrong and therefore must be dismissed or they do not refer to America and are irrelevant. This is not a new claim, of course: Francisco López de Gómara, the Spanish historian, argued that the texts referred to America in 1552. 
 
After this, Djonis enters into evidence the Piri Reis map, which he grossly misunderstands. He seems aware that the post-Columbus Turkish map is not an accurate depiction of Antarctica, but he mistakenly takes the Turkish admiral’s claim that the map draws on charts dating back to the fourth century BCE as proof that all of the elements of the map originated with the Greeks and Romans, including its depiction of South America. This is false. The extant section is part of a much larger world map, and it was the Old World section that drew in part on ancient sources, while Reis is quite clear about the origin of the various sections. His sources were Arabian (drawing on Greco-Roman Ptolemaic originals), Portuguese-Indian, and Spanish (Columbus’ map). It is the last of these that provides the New World section.
 
As for the date Djonis gives: He’s wrong there, too. Here’s what Djonis says: “If truly Piri Reis borrowed from other ancient maps dating back to the 4th century BC, then unquestionably this reinforces the suggestion that Plato, at 360 BC, could have been aware of the American continent in order to include it in his story.” Unfortunately, this is not true. Reis, like many Islamic and Arabic historians before him, confused Claudius Ptolemy the scientist with Ptolemy I of Egypt, and thus mistook Claudius Ptolemy’s second century CE maps for those of Ptolemy I in the fourth century BCE. And with facts, Djonis’s speculation fizzles.
 
Djonis, though, isn’t done. He next tries to claim that the Greek myth of Hyperborea represents knowledge of Arctic Canada. As I recently discussed, the Greek Hyperborea wasn’t a fixed geographical location, and Greek writers placed it everywhere from Scotland to Romania to Siberia. Due to the lack of consistency, it’s impossible to conclude that Hyperborea existed in a literal sense, though elements of the stories suggest that they include some transmitted knowledge of the Arctic, perhaps from Scandinavia or Siberia, including the fact that there are periods when the sun doesn’t rise or set. This can be compared to the tale of the Greek traveler Pytheas in Geminus’ Phaenomena at 6.9, describing a land where the nights were but 2 or 3 hours long.
 
Seeming to sense that he doesn’t have enough evidence to make even a halfhearted case, Djonis concludes his article by throwing at the wall a range of irrelevant and/or discredited diffusionist claims, from the imaginary “missing” copper of the Great Lakes (allegedly stolen by the Minoans) to the cocaine allegedly found in Egyptian mummies (probably due to modern contamination) to the “American” beetle found buried on Santorini (actually indigenous to the island) to, of course, haplogroup X and a supposed Ice Age connection to Europe. He finishes his article by arguing, against the best findings of science, that the presence of haplogroup X in the DNA of Scotland, Iceland, and Canada should allow us to trace waystations on a voyage from the Near East to North America via the Hyperborean Arctic.
 
The trouble for that hypothesis is that Native American mitochondrial DNA and the Y chromosomes are nearly identical to those of the Altai people of Siberia, who are believed to have emerged from an earlier people of the Caucasus. This would exclude transmission from Europe and suggests an earlier phase of migration from the Caucasus through Siberia to the Americas. Indeed, the European haplogroup X is genetically distinct from the North American one, and genetic studies suggest that one could not have given rise to the other but that both descend from a common ancestor.
 
Djonis’s overall claim isn’t even supported by his own evidence: The “Greeks” he refers to turn out to be everyone from the Carthaginians and Minoans to the Hyperboreans and even the Egyptians! The only people he did not try to show actually were in America were the Greeks themselves!
9 Comments
Paul S.
7/1/2020 04:11:26 pm

I'd heard of most of these claims, but the one about "missing" copper from the Great Lakes region is new to me.

That the Minoans crossed the Atlantic and made their way into the interior of North America at a time when it was fairly dangerous for ships to cross even the Mediterranean, seems wildly unlikely to me.

Reply
Kent
7/1/2020 09:54:40 pm

You can use this site's search feature to get caught up. It's a world of rabbit holes but can be great fun. What's curious to me is how they would know the copper was there.

Reply
Clete
7/1/2020 04:43:50 pm

You can't fool me, I know where Atlantis was located. It was it the state of Georgia. I mean the Capital of Georgia is Atlanta and I don't think that is just a chance. It has to be deliberate. I am sure the ancient Greeks reached North America. After all several High Schools and Universities call themselves "The Spartans". Others, of course, call themselves the Trojans, but I think they probably are named after a popular birth control product.

Reply
T. Franke link
7/2/2020 02:49:04 pm

Isn't it Djonis, not Djoris? Seems to be a typo.

The article confuses various things. I even do not understand the Rockall at the beginning, when Djonis is the main theme.

The Carthaginian coin is another strange piece. To assume such a map without any context is quite exaggerated. At least, the professor who makes the claim is able to correct himself as he demonstrated concerning alleged ancient coins from America.

Reply
E.P. Grondine
7/2/2020 08:33:38 pm

Hi Jason -

"He finishes his article by arguing, against the best findings of science, that the presence of haplogroup X in the DNA of Scotland, Iceland, and Canada should allow us to trace waystations on a voyage from the Near East to North America via the Hyperborean Arctic."

Acrtually, X mt DNA shows up on the coast of Canada at 8,350 BCE. Once again, it survives today among the Osage and Cherokee. And yes, those tribal members are tall.

Plato's creation of his moral take of Atlantis is covered in Man and Impact in the Americas, now sold out, but available through inter-library loan.

So far I've found no hard evidence of early trans Atlantic copper trade. Someday something may show up, but so far, no. If it does, I look forward to drinking shine with Josh Gates.

Oh well, there are always the Adena monoliths. A search for them at some West Virginia sites would be a great excuse to introduce Mr. Gates to West Virginia's domestic arts. This efing plague has got me down. I think (and hope) it may be over by September with the production of a vacine.

By the way, Great Lakes copper is very pure, and thus easy to identify in any archaeological context. To close, I was very disappointed that your book had no illustration of the prototype of the Grave Creek Stone. Tell Brad to get on it.

Reply
Spud Webb
7/3/2020 06:45:50 pm

What is your evidence that the Cherokee and Osage are tall? Existing evidence indicates that the tallest Native American groups of the recent past were the Cheyenne and Arapaho who averaged about 5'7".Even accounting for modest height increase in the 20th century I'm not sure if any group of Native Americans would be considered notably tall.

Reply
Kent
7/5/2020 09:20:28 pm

That's a bingo! But I should warn you that like the X haplogroup you can type until your fingers fall off but the actual data will not be accepted.

Jr. Time Lord
7/11/2020 06:47:01 pm

I have no idea which tribe they claimed descent from, twin brothers I went to HighSchool with were 6 ft 4 in tall. They claim to have cousins that were six eight and six nine. I never saw the alleged cousins but, I can assure you Jason and Jared were quite large men. NOBODY messed with them. NOBODY!

Normandie Kent
7/5/2020 05:23:00 pm

The Cherokee and Osage have no haplogroup X2a, they are mostly C, A, and maybe D. The Oldest X found in the Americas is on the West Coast of Washington state in Kennewick Man at 9000 years. It is found in the Yakima, Colville, Nootka tribes, and the Ojibwa and Navajo have X2g, and X2a. It’s is not found in the Southeast, except for the 7,000 year old Windover remains, that’s why Lorenz was surprised at seeing X in those, because he said that X wasn’t found in that area, and were unlike other tribes in the area. If modern Cherokee or Osage have any X, it is because of a Non-Native recent immigrant maternal ancestor from Europe or the Middle East.

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    • Miscellaneous Documents >
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      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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