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Claim: Ancient Chinese Dagger Found in Georgia

7/2/2015

13 Comments

 
I’m not sure what to make of a claim circulating this week of a Chinese connection to the prehistoric lands of what is now the U.S. state of Georgia. According to an article published on Ancient Origins, written by Jon R. Haskill of the Indigenous Peoples Research Association, a nonprofit organization dedicated to exploring Old World contact with pre-Columbian North America, a Chinese votive sword was discovered in Georgia last year. The object, measuring about 30 cm (12 inches) in length, was allegedly uncovered in a creek bed, and it is now being promoted by Siu-Leung Lee, the Chinese man who appeared on America Unearthed to argue for a Chinese presence in prehistoric North America based on another Chinese artifact allegedly found in America under mysterious circumstances, as well as a misreading of an old map. Lee now claims that he knows of several Chinese objects from Georgia, which he is keeping secret until he can publish the details, though he does not say where.
Picture
The object as it appears on the IPRA website.
Haskill is the author of a book “documenting” a connection between the North America and the Chinese based on the appearance of dragon motifs in art.

According to the IPRA, the object was examined by the University of Georgia and determined to be made of lizardite, and IPRA claims that the object has Chinese characteristics:
A claims that the object has Chinese characteristics:

Preliminary opinions on the form and motifs have been identified as first appearing in the Chengdu plain of the Sichuan basin in Southwestern China. The distinctive eye cartouches and pronounced eyes found on the Taotie(?) [i.e. Chinese ogre] faces on the cross guard and those on the "head" on the handle, are stylistic duplicates of those first appearing with the Sanxingdui culture (1750-1200 BCE). […] It should be noted that at this time, we are not aware of a similar eye motif in North America art. The eyebrow motif, pronounced eyes, volute shape fangs and diagonal cross-hatching of the character on the cross guard, are stylistic equivalents to some depictions of the Mesoamerican rain deity. The similarities of Olmec art and other cultural attributes to ancient China has long been a subject of scholarly debate.
I’ll be honest: I don’t really know what I’m looking at here. My first impression when I saw the object is that it had Mississippian or Mesoamerican stylistic traits, but the poor quality of the carving compared to the typical work of those cultures suggests to me that the piece might well be a fake. Something about it just looks wrong, like the way art critics realized that the Getty kouros was fake based on its appearance. The low quality of the carving, of course, can’t exclude the possibility that someone was incompetent at some point in the past. Frankly, it looks more like a Burrows Cave artifact than a genuine piece of Chinese art. I’m not familiar with anything similar in North American art, but since there is no claim of a date except on stylistic grounds, it could have been made at any time, including 2014, the nineteenth century, etc.

The shape of the dagger’s blade is also a bit unusual, though it is similar to a Chinese dagger that appeared in the video game Far Cry 3 at the end of 2012. Unfortunately, I don’t know enough about ancient Chinese art to have a more developed opinion of it.

Haskill goes far beyond even this meager evidence and suggests that Chinese and Olmec art are so similar as to have a connection, and claims that the Chinese gave the Olmec their culture and their social system—including social stratification and aristocracy. This seems to be an echo of the old claims made about Fusang, based on a spurious reading of a mythical Chinese land as Mexico. 
13 Comments
Bob Jase
7/2/2015 07:20:42 am

Does the hilt remind anyone else of a Thor's hammer pendant?

Reply
spookyparadigm
7/2/2015 07:27:22 am

I can guarantee you that is not indigenous North American or Mesoamerican.

It certainly looks like something from Bronze Age China, including the Taotie. I saw lots of things with taoties on them, and other kinds of knives and such, when I visited the museums in London last month. Does that mean there were Bronze Age Chinese in Bronze Age Britain?

No, and that's why provenience is so damn important. Especially when I can go search Ebay and get ....

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=chinese+dagger&_osacat=20081&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1311.R1.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xshang+.TRS0&_nkw=shang+bronze&_sacat=20081

Reply
spookyparadigm
7/2/2015 07:29:11 am

And Shang jade. Whether any of it is real is beside the point for the question at hand.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=shang+bronze&_osacat=20081&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xshang+jade.TRS0&_nkw=shang+jade&_sacat=20081

Reply
spookyparadigm
7/2/2015 07:37:25 am

I would also note that by "looks like" I would also include things that look like bronze age China, but are not. I have a very nice replica of a Lewis Chessman I got in Scotland. It is not medieval, and wasn't made in Scotland or Scandinavia, as far as I am aware.

But it looks like something from medieval Europe.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
7/2/2015 07:46:44 am

I have some very nice soapstone Fu dogs and a beautiful Chinese bronze bowl with astrological and dragon scenes, but while they look ancient, they are nineteenth century reproductions made for the tourist trade.

Shane Sullivan
7/2/2015 11:16:49 am

My sister carved a soapstone Budai statue when she was a teenager, so I'm pretty confident Zheng He visited Wisconsin.

Heike Kubasch
7/5/2015 02:38:04 am

That reminds me of the time I had to gently point out to an antique dealer that the antique Chinese jade box shown on his website was a fake on the strength that there were 20 identical items listed on EBay. He did remove the item however

Reply
David Bradbury
7/2/2015 08:06:22 am

Imagine my surprise on learning that Lizardite has about the same hardness as a fingernail. The object is carved, with no joining of different materials. It may not be a fake, but its manufacture is exacly what one would expect of a faker with a single skill (carving).

Reply
Clete
7/2/2015 08:11:36 am

"I found this ancient Chinese dagger in a river in Georgia."

"Funny, it doesn't look Chinese."

Reply
Shane Sullivan
7/2/2015 11:15:26 am

At first, I thought you were talking about the country of Georgia, and that maybe the Chinese had fought giants in the Caucasus. But then I read further and realized they were just hangin' with the Maya in pre-Columbian America.

Reply
Only Me
7/2/2015 12:37:00 pm

Even if the sword is authentic, that fact alone does not prove the Chinese visited pre-Columbian North America. To offer only that possibility disregards any other plausible explanations as to how it found itself in Georgia.

Also, the authenticity of the sword cannot be considered evidence that the Chinese bestowed anything upon the Olmec. I'm seeing definite confirmation bias here.

All I want to know is why certain people seem to find it inconceivable that Mesoamerican cultures were separate entities that existed and flourished without help from European/Middle Eastern/Asian overlords.

Reply
V
7/3/2015 09:42:48 am

Poor self-esteem.

No, seriously. They have a need to feel superior to someone, anyone else, and this is one way they do it. Notice how the fringey types react to challenges of even the most respectful, scholarly kind--by attacking. It makes them feel better about themselves.

Really, though, counselling would go much, much further than bullying to improve their self-esteem...

Reply
Mike Jones
7/5/2015 01:12:21 pm

I am a stone carver by trade. It's how I make my living. After just a casual look at the photos, I feel pretty comfortable saying that this piece was made using modern rotary tools.

Reply

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    • Television Reviews >
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    • Collection: Ancient Alien Fraud >
      • Chariots of the Gods at 50
      • Secret History of Ancient Astronauts
      • Of Atlantis and Aliens
      • Aliens and Ancient Texts
      • Profiles in Ancient Astronautics >
        • Erich von Däniken
        • Robert Temple
        • Giorgio Tsoukalos
        • David Childress
      • Blunders in the Sky
      • The Case of the False Quotes
      • Alternative Authors' Quote Fraud
      • David Childress & the Aliens
      • Faking Ancient Art in Uzbekistan
      • Intimations of Persecution
      • Zecharia Sitchin's World
      • Jesus' Alien Ancestors?
      • Extraterrestrial Evolution?
    • Collection: Skeptic Magazine >
      • America Before Review
      • Native American Discovery of Europe
      • Interview: Scott Sigler
      • Golden Fleeced
      • Oh the Horror
      • Discovery of America
      • Supernatural Television
      • Review of Civilization One
      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
      • Charioteer of the Gods
    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
      • The China Syndrome
      • Atlantis, Mu, and the Maya
      • Easter Island Exposed
      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
      • Lovecraft in Bergier
      • Lovecraft and Scientology
    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
      • Aliens and Anal Probes
      • Ultra-Terrestrials and UFOs
      • Rebels, Queers, and Aliens
    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
    • The Curse of the Pharaohs
    • The Antediluvian Pyramid Myth
    • Whitewashing American Prehistory
    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
      • Ancient Texts >
        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Atrahasis Epic
          • Epic of Gilgamesh
          • Kutha Creation Legend
          • Babylonian Creation Myth
          • Descent of Ishtar
          • Berossus
          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
          • Dream Stela of Thutmose IV
          • The Papyrus of Ani
          • Classical Accounts of the Pyramids
          • Inventory Stela
          • Manetho
          • Eratosthenes' King List
          • The Story of Setna
          • Leon of Pella
          • Diodorus on Egyptian History
          • On Isis and Osiris
          • Famine Stela
          • Old Egyptian Chronicle
          • The Book of Sothis
          • Horapollo
          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
          • The Asclepius
          • The Emerald Tablet
          • Hermetic Fragments
          • Prologue to the Kyranides
          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
        • Ctesias' Indica
        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Scrapbook
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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