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Consciousness: The Fringe's Final Frontier

2/8/2019

50 Comments

 
​Regular readers will remember Jeffrey J. Kripal, a professor of philosophy and religious thought at Rice University, because a few years ago he declared that a Renaissance painting depicted a genuine flying saucer, and more recently, because he held a UFO symposium. In a recent interview, Kripal has made a surprising new claim that finds further parallels with the pseudo-religious ramblings of latter-season Ancient Aliens. Kripal says that he believes the human imagination does not necessarily generate its own ideas but instead may be a conduit for receiving supernatural messages from the outside. This is surprisingly similar to the claim made on Ancient Aliens that geniuses do not have original insights but instead have their thoughts beamed into their heads by superior space aliens.
​Kripal has also embraced Communion author Whitley Strieber, with whom he wrote a book on the supernatural, and has taken to describing the alien abductee as a “prophet,” though he does not believe that Strieber’s abduction occurred in the physical world.
 
I don’t know what’s going on with Kripal, but his ever-closer orbit to the Ancient Aliens school of quasi-spiritual speculation will only continue to give aid and succor to ancient astronaut theorists as they continue their quest to speculate their way to fame and fortune.
 
But what bothers me is this drifting toward a weird spirituality. It’s been a long time in coming, born of the failure of UFOs and space aliens to produce any tangible evidence of their reality. The recent versions, though, of paranormal spirituality are a far cry from the spiritual flying saucers of the 1950s, which imagined angels and demons riding in silvery discs. Now, the spirituality seems to orbit around New Age / Gnostic ideas of consciousness and false reality.
 
You will remember that Graham Hancock has taken consciousness as a major theme of his latter-day work and claims that hallucinogenic drugs provide a path toward communicating with cosmic entities. In this view, our minds become receivers for transmissions from other dimensions, much as Kripal imagines that imagination taps into supernatural forces. Similarly, Ancient Aliens continuously emphasizes Theosophy’s Akashic Record, the imaginary library of all wisdom in the sky that psychics can visit mentally to access hidden truths. And of course we can’t forget the UFO-poltergeist hypothesis pursued by Hal Puthoff, Robert Bigelow, and others, which imagines flying saucers to be manifestations of ghostly energy from other dimensions, seeping into ours through wormholes.
 
At the most ridiculous end of the spectrum, geologist Robert Schoch is also spiritualizing his claims and embracing a quasi-religious exploration of consciousness. Schoch is most famous for his radical re-dating of the Sphinx to thousands of years before dynastic Egypt, and last year when his colleague John Anthony West’s died, Schoch expressed his growing belief that the material world exists within a larger supernatural context, albeit one where the supernatural is some sort of unexplained inherent property of hydrogen:
However, what if our Sun and the stars are indeed conscious? What if, when we die our consciousness has the potential to literally become a star, or unite with the already existing consciousness of our Sun or perhaps some other star? This is something that Katie (my wife, she knew JAW well) has been developing, and JAW was certainly intrigued by her ideas. Stars are comprised largely of hydrogen, and it has been demonstrated that hydrogen can encode information. Are we on the brink of beginning to understand, in modern terms, the core of the sacred science? Is the essence of ourselves carried (perhaps via hydrogen or its components) to the heavens?
​The claim apparently was first made in Schoch’s 2012 book Forgotten Civilization, though I have not read it and am not familiar with it.
 
I will go out on a limb and suggest that if we were to actually have a supernatural essence, it cannot be essentialized and physicalized as hydrogen. (If it could, imagine how many gods died when the Hindenburg exploded!) But I am fascinated by the idea that Schoch wants to take the mysticism of Wests, inherited from Schwaller de Lubicz, and turn it into something material.
 
Individually, all of these claims—and the related efforts of more mainstream figures, like Avi Loeb’s claims that accepting ancient astronauts can improve human morality—are so much noise. But taken together, they form a pattern and suggest that the underlying motive behind the exploration of ufology, fringe history, and the like isn’t scientific but rather religious, seeking a substitute for traditional faith in a postmodern age. We’ve been down this path many times in our discussions here, but the more examples are added to the list, the clearer the motivations become.
50 Comments
Machala
2/8/2019 09:05:02 am

Between God, Guardian Angels, and Extraterrestials Entities, I can't figure out who to listen to, so I just go with majority opinion.
Schizophrenia is so much more fun now.

Reply
Ken
2/8/2019 09:10:05 am

Someone needs to ask these geniuses (as I am sure they consider themselves) if they received their vast knowledge and insight from aliens or from the Akashic Record - or are they the lone exceptions who are capable of figuring it all out on their own?

It's easy to accuse ancient humans and/or indigenous people of not being smart enough to figure it all out, but heaven forbid you suggest that they too have nothing original to say that wasn't suggested to them by superior beings.

Reply
bkd69
2/8/2019 09:11:31 am

The Law of Conservation of Woo:
The amount of woo a population believes in is constant, it only changes form

Reply
Fringe indeed
2/8/2019 10:07:51 am

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness."

Max Planck (1858-1947) was a Nobel Prize-winning German physicist and the father of quantum theory

Reply
William Fitzgerald
2/8/2019 10:11:38 am

There is nothing new under the sun. Maybe depends on which sun, and how much hydrogen it has left. All systems contain information including atoms down to fundamental particles. There are ways to encode information on some of these systems.

Of course quantum systems are the most "mysterious" which can store information, but also seemingly "transmit" information instantaneously over long distances; how this does not violate Einstein's theory is one of the great mysteries science: the Theory of Everything, a true holy grail mystery as it were, especially if Godel has his way.

Nonetheless, people are reaching for a quantum explanation for conscience; interesting, but for now I just shrug my shoulders at these types of theories: possible I guess, but still a stretch at this point by trying to merge two "mysterious" things into one.

Reply
David Evans
2/8/2019 11:09:27 am

It could well be that quantum phenomena are involved in the functioning of our neurons and therefore in our consciousness. But you need the neurons to provide structure. There's no reason to think that an undifferentiated mass of hydrogen would ever develop consciousness.

Reply
Aaa
2/8/2019 11:30:52 am

Neurons and consciousness are not the same thing. Brain is just a transducer of consciousness and consciousness survives the death of the body.

V
2/8/2019 01:52:29 pm

"consciousness survives the death of the body. "

Prove it. We can prove consciousness of a living body, but no one has ever provided legitimate proof of consciousness after that body dies. Until you can prove that consciousness survives death, you're not talking science, you're talking philosophy at BEST, and religion more likely.

Aaa
2/8/2019 02:12:54 pm

If you want science then as a starter I recommend you familiarize yourself with the work of Ian Pretyman Stevenson.

V
2/8/2019 01:58:51 pm

Einstein's theory states that MATTER cannot travel faster than light. DATA is a different story. If you are transmitting via radio, of course it's not going to go faster than the speed of light, since radio is part of the electromagnetic spectrum that is limited to the speed of light. However, we have evidence of faster-than-light particles that have little to no mass, which don't violate anything BECAUSE of that lack of mass, just as an example. If data is "transmitted" via, say, quantuum entanglement, it's not traveling via EM spectrum, and it may not even be TRAVELING at all, since quantuum entanglement allows particles to "overlap" and be one single particle in two places at once. The data is then not actually MOVING more than the shortest distance, and appears to be "instantaneous" over "long distances" without it actually being true.

Reply
Anechoic Cool "Disco" Dan
2/8/2019 02:37:28 pm

"However, we have evidence of faster-than-light particles that have little to no mass"

a. We have no such evidence
b. Little mass and no mass are two wildly different things

http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/Relativity/SR/light_mass.html

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/06/once-again-physicists-debunk-faster-light-neutrinos

William Fitzgerald
2/8/2019 10:37:57 pm

Information is simply a record of an outcome or the resolution of uncertainty. The record must be stored in matter or energy. If transmitted it must obey the laws of physics, including relatively and thermodynamics. Since the following applies:

E=mC^2.

Information is bound by the speed of light. Q.E.D.

(Quantum mechanics does offer some examples of apparent or virtual violations, however these are likely observer distortions or solutions to problems that we don't have a fundamental understanding of and therefore can't fully explain creating apparent paradoxes; but are in any case usually localized or not realized cases).

Joe Scales
2/8/2019 10:15:44 am

"But taken together, they form a pattern and suggest that the underlying motive behind the exploration of ufology, fringe history, and the like isn’t scientific but rather religious, seeking a substitute for traditional faith in a postmodern age. We’ve been down this path many times in our discussions here, but the more examples are added to the list, the clearer the motivations become."

Even folks with legitimate degrees and/or academic standing can still be swayed by greed to push nonsense. Faith has always been a cash grab.

Reply
RIGHTS OF MAN
2/8/2019 11:01:17 am

The major reason behind the American and French Revolutions was to introduce freedom of beliefs and that belief should not be about the Bible and nothing else.

Reply
Joe Scales
2/8/2019 11:21:34 am

Sorry. Such wars were about control of resources.

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/8/2019 11:45:41 am

There is a new breed of right wing religious American historian today --- rejecting the consensus view that the United States Constitution calls for separation of church and state.

Joe Scales
2/8/2019 01:03:27 pm

Well, go argue with them then; and leave me out of it.

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/8/2019 01:18:43 pm

I will argue against those right wingers who try to re-write American history, no sweat.

Uncle Ron
2/8/2019 01:30:27 pm

R-O-M It's easy to reject that view since the US Constitution does not call for the separation of Church and State. It only says that the government not make any law regarding the establishment of a religion. The "separation" quote is form a letter written by Thomas Jefferson.

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/8/2019 01:54:01 pm

It's the same difference.
Also, the right wingers argue that the Founding Fathers endorsed Christianity because many of them were directly connected with it --- but freedom of belief is the endorsement of all religions. A big difference from claiming the Founding Fathers endorsed Christianity because they believed in freedom of belief.

V
2/8/2019 02:09:18 pm

Uncle Ron, the problem with that argument is that it ignores that the quote is from a letter that INFORMED the creation of the US Constitution, and that it was a widely-accepted concept well before that time, even if it was less well-APPLIED. Furthermore, the SCOTUS has repeatedly upheld this interpretation of the Constitution, so it's a bit thin ice to reject that interpretation regardless of how you look at it--unless, of course, you are one of those people who desperately wants to foist their religion off on everyone else around them and therefore insist on a ridiculously narrow view that says that if those specific words are not in the document, the concept does not exist...despite the fact that there is more than one place in the Constitution that deal in details critical to separation of church and state, including the First Amendment and Article 6.

There's more than 100 years of precedent to the concept that the Constitution calls for a separation of church and state, so why is that so hard a concept to accept, anyway?

Joe Scales
2/8/2019 02:44:09 pm

"A big difference from claiming the Founding Fathers endorsed Christianity because they believed in freedom of belief."

As for the Founding Fathers, being brought up in the Age of Enlightenment most of the main players were deists. However, those with seemingly more Christian ties, such as John Adams (the principle author of the Massachusetts state constitution which influenced that for our nation), saw Christianity as the best moral philosophy of its time upon which morals our nation should be based. You'll find this expressed by Adams himself within his letters to Jefferson written later in life.

Still, there is no doubt that they all opposed our nation becoming a theocracy, which was the intent best expressed within the notion of separation of church and state. People will twist this however, in whatever fashion their own politics dictate.

Antisecular Cool "Disco" Dan
2/8/2019 02:52:54 pm

The Constitution doesn't say "the government" it says "Congress shall make no law" and several states, e.g. Massachusetts until 1833 and Maryland until 1867, had state religions and religious tests for public office.

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/8/2019 05:10:57 pm

There's no place for hereditary tyrants and religious bigots to rule Society anymore, they don't offer anything to society --- except themselves.

Rationalism is superior to religion.

Joe Scales
2/8/2019 08:45:57 pm

"Rationalism is superior to religion."

For what? An orderly society? Hate to resort to the whole Hitler thing... but how do you suppose they got going?

William J Fitzgerald
2/8/2019 10:36:18 pm

It is a bit of a misnomer to conflate the American and French Revolutions. They were really very different things. The conflation is likely because they occur in the same historical period, both are called revolutions, and no-doubt the French were inspired by the American cause. Ironic, though fitting with the differences between the Revolutions, that it was the French Monarch that assured American victory in its Revolution.

Nonetheless, the American Revolution was more of a civil war to decide who the rulers in America would ultimately answer to: British Parliament or the American People (through the existing rulers of course). Keep in mind many of the leaders of America, pre-Revolution, were the same leaders after; the difference was who they answered to.

The French Revolution was not only a decision of who ruled but a nearly complete upending of society. American society after its revolution remained largely the same. (The Great Awakening and the Jacksonian Revolutions are more akin to a true revolution in American history, though interesting not very bloody).

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/9/2019 02:18:33 am

Some people compared the Holy Roman Inquisition with the Nazis.
The Vatican invented eugenics long before The Third Reich -- sending South American Natives to the Vatican to discuss if they had souls or not.

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/9/2019 02:22:43 am

Both the French Revolution and the American War of Independence had the same people involved....
There is not that much difference --- France created the First Republic and America created the House of Congress.
Both guided by the Rights of Man.

William J Fitzgerald
2/9/2019 03:10:46 am

One quickly devolved into essentially anarchy which was brought to order by another monarchy, this time by an Emperor. While the other soon after formed a very stable government. One had a very communitarian vision of freedom. While the other was more individualistic. And as I stated before, one completely upended society destroying much of what was before (I am agnostic as to the good or bad of this, but it certainty was not a pleasant time). While the other essentially maintained its preexisting society; albeit much more patriotic to American sensibilities rather than British. Of course, society did evolve as all societies do, but it did not more slowly and not in a great upheaval of bloody anarchy. The similarities are mostly superficial.

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/9/2019 09:58:43 am

AMERICAN WAR OF INDEPENDENCE
19 Apr 1775 – 3 Sep 1783
United States Constitution Ratified 21 June, 1788

FRENCH REVOLUTION
5 May 1789 – 9 Nov 1799
The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen (French: Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen de 1789)

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/9/2019 10:57:50 am

The similarities between American Freedom and French Freedom are not "superficialities".

This was the dawning of a completely new age where Rights of Man was introduced which hitherto had not existed.

People were allowed to believe in what they wanted. People were allowed to criticise and attack the Church and the Bible.

Let's not get bogged down with fudging the obvious.
The religious right wing of America of today want to proclaim that the Founding Fathers were Christians. They were not Christians --- they supported Christianity in the same way they supported other religions --- because of the introduction of Freedom of Belief,




Joe Scales
2/9/2019 04:15:35 pm

Why don't you actually read what the Founding Fathers wrote, rather than dazzle us with your facile fancies... over and over again.

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/9/2019 05:57:46 pm

It looks like you have been duped by the likes of David Barton and Catherine Millard.

Joe Scales
2/9/2019 06:22:27 pm

Okay then. Embrace the asinine.
Now why don't you tell us one more time...

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/9/2019 06:27:50 pm

Tell you what?
You've made your mind up
Despite all the evidence

Joe Scales
2/9/2019 06:42:30 pm

Actually, it's your closed mind which has you ignoring every point I've tried to convey to you which is basically that your assertions are overgeneralizations ignorant of the context of the times; and certainly not based on reading first hand accounts from those you only imagine to understand. Instead, you see me purely as opposition and have colored me accordingly to your own prejudices.

Autotransformative Cool "Disco" Dan link
2/9/2019 06:45:05 pm

What's "The Holy Roman Inquisition" and when did the Vatican shift from promoting eugenics to the current "everyone must reproduce no matter how defective" policy?

Aforementioned Cool "Disco" Dan link
2/9/2019 06:52:13 pm

"V
2/8/2019 02:09:18 pm
Uncle Ron, the problem with that argument is that it ignores that the quote is from a letter that INFORMED the creation of the US Constitution"

Uhhh, yeahhh, except NO. The letter was written in 1802.

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/9/2019 07:10:42 pm

Quoting John Adams:

"The Europeans are all deeply tainted with prejudices ... which they can never get rid of. They are all infected with .. confessions of faith. They all believe that great principle (God) which produced this boundless universe .. came down to this little ball (earth), to be spit upon by Jews ... And until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world" (letter to Thomas Jefferson, 22 January, 1825)

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/9/2019 07:13:53 pm

"when did the Vatican shift …"

Has the Vatican mellowed after over two centuries of freedom of belief and losing its power ?

The Vatican must have mellowed, after once sentencing the entire country of Holland to death.

RIGHTS OF MAN
2/9/2019 07:27:55 pm

"Upon February 16th, 1568, a sentence of the Holy Office condemned all the inhabitants of the Netherlands to death". (John Lothrop Motley, The Rise of the Dutch Republic, Volume 2, page 207, 1898)

DRUGS AND RELIGION
2/8/2019 11:04:25 am

"You will remember that Graham Hancock has taken consciousness as a major theme of his latter-day work and claims that hallucinogenic drugs provide a path toward communicating with cosmic entities"

Shamanism and entheogens is the discipline of mainstream anthropology as well -- called Ethno-Botany.

Reply
Doc Rock
2/8/2019 11:16:37 am

That's why so many people in the US want to start their own new versions of shamanistic religion. The belief that it gives them free rein to partake of Ebene, weed, peyote, etc. as the path to enlightenment, all while operating within a tax free organization.

Of course other non-narcotic routes work too but they take more time and are less fun.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
2/8/2019 01:42:01 pm

There is a difference between studying shamanism and entheogens and believing you are in contact with godlike beings from another dimension.

Reply
Doc Rock
2/8/2019 02:26:17 pm

That's one reason why many people find the 501c3 application process to be quite frustrating.

GURU-SCIENTISTS
2/8/2019 11:08:29 am

Krippal sounds like a good example of a guru-scientist.
Albert Hofmann described himself as a scientist-turned-initiate when discussing his life researching LSD.

Reply
Uncle Ron
2/8/2019 01:32:55 pm

Jason- many "Kirpals" and Kripals" starting with the first sentence.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
2/8/2019 01:43:17 pm

Thanks... Fixed.

Reply
gwood
2/10/2019 02:24:53 pm

I had to quit accessing the Akashic Record. Too many overdue fines.

Reply
Seymore Butts
2/10/2019 06:55:21 pm

I wonder when Kirpal will start commenting on here about how persecuted he is. Like when Stevie Sinclair was on a bender during the review of the craptastic Zena Halpern book.

Reply

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