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Croatian Historian Claims Trojan War Took Place in Croatia

12/28/2017

29 Comments

 
​Yesterday I received an interesting letter from a professor in Croatia who wanted me to hear about his pet theory that Homer’s Troy is actually located in Croatia. Vedran Sinožić is a professor specializing in Istrian history, and wouldn’t you know that he determined that the Trojan War took place in Istria. According to the description of the expanded second edition of his book Our Troy, “Istrian historian Vedran Sinožić presents his knowledge of the true location of ancient Troy. After many years of research and exhaustive work on collecting all available information and knowledge, Sinožić provides numerous arguments that prove that the legendary Homeric Troy is not located in Hisarlik in Turkey, but is located in the Republic of Croatia—in today’s town of Motovun in Istria.”
​The second edition of his book appeared last year, and Sinožić spent much of this year promoting the book at international book fairs and in Eastern European media. Sinožić says that he is in the process of producing a sequel to the book as part of a planned three-volume series. He told me that he contacted me because he hoped to share his ideas with the American people.
 
Sinožić says that his hypothesis is based on the notion that the center of the Greek world was not the Aegean Sea but the Adriatic, and therefore the events recorded in Greek mythology actually occurred in the area between Dalmatia and Italy rather than between Greece and Asia Minor.
 
The argument revolves around what he sees as a series of geographic and linguistic correspondences between Homeric accounts and the geography and language of Istria at the head of the Adriatic, as well as the fact the Odysseus’ Ithaca has always been connected to the western side of Greece and the Adriatic rather than the east and the Aegean. Since I do not speak Croatian, I have not read the book but only brief accounts available online and through what Sinožić ​told me.
 
While there is a superficial logic to this general idea, there is the bigger problem that accepting it would require a wholesale revision of our entire understanding of Mycenaean and Greek history, a rejection of the established connections between the Mycenaean world of Greece and the Hittite world of Anatolia, and a rejection of the linguistic and archaeological evidence that the myth of the Trojan War derived from late Mycenaean or sub-Mycenaean wars with the city-states of what is now Turkey. The correspondence, for example, between Hittite references to place names like Wilusa and people like Alexander, and their Homeric counterparts is increasingly difficult to dismiss, especially to replace it with less directly related linguistic elements from Slavic languages.
 
But at heart, the argument is an emotional one rather than a logical one, something that the author admits in describing his book for a Croatian publication: “I was led by some feeling or instinct to find Troy in Istria. With frequent visits to the towns and villages of Istria, filled with a feeling of love, I came to Motovun. After just one day reading Truhel, I realized that Motovun must be Troy, and that Ithaca must be the island of Unije, because it must be near to Troy.” Unije was known to the Romans as Nis, from which the modern name derives, but to my knowledge there is no evidence of a Greek presence in the Bronze Age. Similarly, for the Trojan War to have taken place in Istria would require so much more infrastructure and so many more archaeological remains that currently exist.
 
This seems to be another case of the curious law that those who go looking for famous people and events in unusual places often find them close to their homes.
29 Comments
Mandalore
12/28/2017 10:24:11 am

There is archaeological evidence of Mycenaeans and Minoans in Italy during the Bronze Age. Also, it is worth noting that one of the two legendary Trojan survivors, Antenor, was said to have traveled to the northern Adriatic and founded Patavium (modem Padua). Legends also say he traveled else.

But to say that the Adriatic was the center of Greek history at any point is farfetched. Istria in particular was a backwater with no evidence of major cities on the scale of Troy before the Roman conquest in the second century BCE. Plus, as Jason notes, there is outside evidence from Hittite records that clearly point to a city of Troy, called both Wilusia (Greek Ilios) and Tarusa (Troia), as existing in Western Asia Minor, as well as increased raiding from the Ahhiyawa (Achaeans) in the west during the 13th century BCE.

Prof. Sinožićis cherrypicking pretty badly to justify his ideas. Is he even a Classicist or is this just a pet project?

Reply
Jason Colavito link
12/28/2017 10:51:51 am

If I recall, the Mycenaean presence in Italy was mostly on the western side, in the Bay of Naples and Sardinia. I'm not sure about the northern Adriatic.

The legends aren't necessarily of much help; Jason was said to have founded a city near modern Skopje at the head of the Adriatic decades before the Trojan War!

Reply
Mandalore
12/29/2017 08:52:12 am

I agree about legends being unhelpful. Most of the foundation return or travel stories after the Trojan War are just silly. But fun to read.

B. DULE
12/29/2017 03:20:39 pm

Well, first of all, I'm sure that prof. Sinožić spent a lot of his time and energy for his research about Troja.I found the expression " cherrypicking" really inappropriate for a hard work.He wasn't doing all that from behind the desk at home, but he actually visits all those places, talking with people etc.

Reply
Mandalore
12/29/2017 06:23:53 pm

If he is so hard working and dedicated, why does he ignore so much evidence that contradicts his pet theory?

CAPITANO
1/17/2018 01:45:08 pm

Sinozic found a really Homerie Troy with a detective method and there are not errors. For me his best thing is a comparison with a medieval Venicewhich takes a power in the big part of the east side of Mediterranean sea. Anyway, he has many arguments and he has not competitors. His Troy is acropolis city,like Homer say and in Turkey there's not city on the hill,which is only a "tell". I am historian too and I could his location is now the best in the world. You could just watching the video of Motovun city, especially the spectacle with a fog

sincerely
CAPITANO

Reply
Kenneth Pizzi
11/29/2018 07:16:36 pm

This theory was first brought to light by amateur and non-academically affiliated historian, Robert Salinas Price, in his 1984 published book, Homer’s Blind Audience. Based on 20 years of independent research, Salinas-Price, who was initially from Mexico, but resided in San Antonio, TX, contends that ancient Troy was not located in the northwest corner of modern day Turkey, but off the coast of modern Croatia.

Reply
Robi
1/18/2019 06:53:44 pm

There are numerous (large hills) funerary mounds throughout Istria where the remains of the local were entombed. The remains which were all cremated and placed in distinct urns were of an Etruscan style (possible Histri tribes) that predated the Romans by a fair bit of time.

Reply
T. Franke link
12/28/2017 11:30:47 am

Even the superficial logic is not convincing: Because Homer in his Odyssee talked about foreign countries, far far away from the Aegaean Sea and Troy. Thus, if the professor identifies Croatia with some places in Homer (what could be true, why not), then this is clearly an argument against (!) locating Troy there.

The basic question remains: Why do people spend so much time on something of which they admittedly know that they are only driven by their feelings, and nothing more? This is like a religious belief, even worse: It is superstituous. You need psychology to explain this kind of failure, not archaeology.

At least, he shows love for his home country, and interest in ancient times, which is not the worst thing. With some wise pedagogic means, such people could be directed in better directions of thought. Isn't the real history of their countries interesting enough to be fascinated? I am sure it is. There is no need for Troy (or Atlantis) to make a place interesting.

Reply
E.P. Grondine
12/28/2017 11:33:43 am

Hi Jason -

you may likely find these notes of interest:

archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3867

I agree with you in your assessment of this gentleman's work.

Reply
Bob Jase
12/28/2017 02:12:15 pm

Years ago I accidentally discovered Atlantis in Plainville, CT. Except for location, size, configuration of buildings and possibly two millenia of time its exactly as Plato described it.

Reply
nomuse
1/8/2018 07:53:21 pm

I keep forgetting who said it, but the quote I'm reminded of is if you just change the gender, location, moral character and date then King Arthur was obviously Cleopatra.

Reply
A C
12/28/2017 02:34:00 pm

But Iman Wilkens already proved that the real Troy was in Cambridgeshire.

Unless Cambridgeshire is actually the real Istria, and Istria is the real Dardanelles and the Dardanelles are the real Cambridgeshire. The Celts are of course really the lost tribes of Israel, the Myceneans are the real Celts and the Slavs are the real Mycenaeans.

That explains how it took Odysseus so many years to get home, he kept getting confused about where he'd just left and the Knights Templar hadn't invented navigation yet.

Oh wait, now I remember, Umberto Eco already did this joke with Elizabethan authors. Oh well.

Reply
Not the Comte de Saint Germain
12/28/2017 09:45:36 pm

Eco's joke is one of my favorite jokes ever. If you're going to steal ideas, you might as well steal the best ideas out there.

Reply
Matija
12/28/2017 03:28:54 pm

This is not the first time Troy has been "found" on the Adriatic coast. There was Roberto Salinas Price who promoted his view that Troy was in Gabela in Bosnia in the 1980s, and was a minor celebrity in former Yugoslavia:

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/11/28/world/move-troy-to-dalmatia-who-says-a-mexican.html

Reply
Jonathan Feinstein
1/1/2018 03:57:20 pm

I actually have a copy of one of his books, 'Homer's Blind Audience." He was handing out free vanity-press copies at an AIA convention in New Orleans around 1980 (I think, it might have been a year or to later). The copies were bound in blank card stock with a self-adhesive label printed with the title on it. Colleagues warned me not to take it too seriously, but that it was not the worst argument for Troy in Dalmatia. I did read through it and will give him credit for mentioning other proposed sites for Troy (including Schlieman's). While Mycenaean archaeology was not my strong point, he was correct that none of the sites exactly match the descriptions, but then neither did his.

Reply
Brian
12/28/2017 09:20:01 pm

Reminds me of a book I sort of read a while back that argued that the whole of Homer's tales took place in England. Because the author was British.

Personally, I think the Homeric poems and most of Roman history took place in Upstate New York. Why else would there be cities named Ithaca, Syracuse, Utica, Rome, even Troy! Sure there's no ocean, but I'll bet they probably just misread references to wagons as ships. I mean, why not? Could be true. It's not like I'm gonna learn Greek or something to learn anything for myself....

Reply
Clete
12/29/2017 12:17:21 am

Years ago, I remember reading a Clive Cussler Novel which advanced the theory as a plot devise that the Trojan war was actually fought in England over Tin mines. I forget what the name of the novel was, but it was an interesting story.

Reply
Riley V
12/28/2017 11:10:13 pm

Jason,

Look at this as a compliment. He (or his agent) considers you an expert. Affirmations are always nice to get.
Rv

Reply
Edo Benko
12/29/2017 10:32:08 am

To be able to discuss the position of Troy, at first, it is necessary to believe in Homer when he has given detailed geographic descriptions of the area of events and accurately lists the names of toponyms in the field and the names of the subjects of the event and, secondly, the war did not lead for beautiful Helena (it's just a justification) but because of material motivations and benefits.
The Ancient Greeks are not the ones who fought in Troy because the war ran far before they appeared in today's territory of Greece as a defined nation. The fact that Homer Odysseus described as redhead indicates that he certainly is not Greek and points to his Celtic or Slavic origin. The ancient Greeks were the gods and the epics took like as their own and made the whole world into mistake.
It should be known that the area of Istria peninsula in Croatia is fascinating, in almost all details, with Homer's description of the position of Troy and its geographical characteristics. Other sites that are referred to as Troja's location do not exactly match geographic description of Homer, but rather seek justification in random details.
Many names of locations and surnames in Croatia are easily derived from the names mentioned by Homer.
Everything points to the fact that in the area of old Illyricum, wars between the Illyrian tribes on the control of trade routes with northern Europe (oaks, wood, leather, fur, amber) were carried out as well as over the ancient riches. It should be known, Istria is known for the surface of the bauxite ore, and nearby there are iron ore foundations in the north near Idrija.
Northwestern Istria is the closest landlocked North Europen approach to accessing of the Mediterranean market without barriers, the Adriatic Sea is deepest into the European land mass, but other coastal areas have barriers of mountain massifs.
The secrets that lie around these territories as well as the peoples and tribes of the Illyric area should be further explored. We do not know the language spoken by the Illyric tribes and there are no written findings. This is strange if we know that the area is located between the Greek and Roman cultural areas and it has been long under their influence through the settlements and as a Roman province.
Accepting the fact that the Trojan War has run in the Istrian peninsula in Croatia, it is easy and logical to explain the origins of Etruscan and the ancient Romans because these two centers are actually located near Istria - Troy, and contributes to the possibilities of explaining the origin of Biblical "peoples from the sea " who attacked the Holy Land.
To prove this, it is necessary to carry out significant archaeological research in the area of Istria and to include other scientific disciplines for the overall explanation of what happened at that time and who were the subjects of the event. (excuse me for bad English)

Reply
T. Franke link
12/29/2017 12:20:33 pm

Right in the first line of your text appears the statement, "you have to believe in Homer". Well. That is the problem. To "believe" is the wrong category. Totally wrong.

And to disbelieve is wrong, too!

We have to take Homer seriously, in the context of his time, in the perspective of his understanding. But this does not mean to "believe" or "disbelieve" in Homer.

Can you follow me ...?

Reply
Edo Benko
12/29/2017 01:28:17 pm

I agree with you that, for an understanding of what is happening and how it is happening, Homer should be placed in the context of the times when the events are occurring and this is necessary for an understanding of religious, strategic, military, economic, ethnic and other circumstances.
It is hard to believe that Homer had a great imagination and invented the description of Troy and described in detail the geographical characteristics of the area. It's the only epic element that can help us locate Troy. If these descriptions are not true, it is almost impossible to locate the city and the state of Troy.

T. Franke link
12/29/2017 04:38:09 pm

@Edo Benko:

I am pretty sure that Homer did not invent his stories out of thin air, this is clear. Such a kind of poetry was not developed in his time.

What is possible, that the Iliad is a mixture of various stories from various places and times, confused to one story.

Certainly, the Mycenaeans were the ones who fought at Troy.

John
12/29/2017 02:31:32 pm

I doubt that any Slavic language was spoken in the Balkans before the 5th century A.D.

Reply
Benko
12/29/2017 03:37:55 pm

We do not know it today, but we might be surprised. Migration of peoples and ethnic groups should not be followed by language. Many different circumstances have influenced individual ethnic groups to adopt and use the language belonging to the other ethnic group.

Reply
Maja
12/29/2017 03:07:26 pm

Everyone can belive or not to believe in what is offered to us in books (about Troy, Homer ...), but from these same books it is nice to read and find the exact places are in and around Motovun, and to see the details described are just now in Western Istria (Motovun - Troy) , Everyone has the right to believe or to doubt,
Something is offered to us, something imposed, something to learn, but when we do not find what we are looking for, we go in search of it in our own way, and then we are surprised when we meet with the evidence at other places on the globe of the Earth that the history told us. There is no need to be all the truth that is offered to us through a "history" when a man finds something that is so connected with Homer, the location that has so far known falls into the water, Western Istria has to be explored only a little more, but the system does not allow to change "the history" or maybe ...

Reply
Đino
12/31/2017 09:42:33 am

In this big story that is in the very foundation of European civilization, there is still a whole series of open puzzles. Thus from classical era until today, there is no absolute consensus on the content of Iliad, who was Homer, whether the Trojan War took place and where was Troy located, regardless of official and academic worldwide ambitions for the final confirmation of Schliemann’s Troy at Hissarlik. Speaking of Hissarlik, today, nearly a century and a half after the beginning of research in Asia Minor, it can be said objectively that the archaeological findings do not confirm, nor deny Schelimann's theory.

In that sense, Prof. Sinožić’s book is a legitimate scientific and research effort to address this issue, by offering a new context, which sheds new light and revalues ancient history of Istria, the Adriatic and Illyricum in general, which is from the perspective of Western Europe and its dominant archeological and historical paradigm, still mostly unknown and treated as once “barbaric” land civilized by Greeks and Romans. Furthermore, Croatian archaeology is not helping in changing this attitude; in terms of scientific research, it has literally just scratched the surface.

Professor Sinožić's book is based on meticulous study of Homer's epics as the only relevant sources that can lead us to the location of the holy city of Ilios, that is, the Troy. By respecting the geographical conditions that are key to the location of the Troy; such as position of the rivers (8 rivers in Iliad, 8 rivers in Istria), position of Mount Ida (Učka) as well as astronomical and natural details, he finds numerous correlations between the topography of Istria and Homer's geographical descriptions, and in many cases affirms them with toponymic evidence. This is the element where Sinožić's theory brought great novelty in the field of research of location of Troy, since he pointed to the fact that the names of heroes and toponyms from Iliad, appear in Istria and its surroundings in a really fascinating way, scattered in the names of cities, villages, valleys, rivers, hills, and not least, in Istrian surnames.

I will give some examples as a confirmation of this claim, but first of all, it should be emphasized that in the prehistoric period, Istria was (in a relatively small area) extremely densely populated; up to now, archaeological findings established existence of about 350 hillforts (which have yet to be thoroughly explored) for which official archeology claims to be a Mycenaean type, while older researchers thought that these are Pelasgian structures.

Since Sinožić's book is indeed full of details that cannot be cited here (hence I hope for a future English translation that will enable a wider presentation of this theory), here are just a few examples of historical traces and fragments hidden through the millennia across the Istria, which led the author to the discovery.

Now there is a high mound before the city, rising by itself upon the plain.
Men call it Batieia, but the gods know that it is the tomb of lithe Myrine.
Here the Trojans and their allies divided their forces.

The Iliad, Book II

Indeed, not far from Motovun, which is according to Sinožić the original Troy-Ilios, there is a hill looking exactly as described above, and also, village called Bataji is located there. Batieia is in the Greek mythology Dardan’s wife, daughter of Teucrus, who gave birth to Il, founder of Troy, after which Troy is also called Ilios. Myrine, the queen of the Amazons, is the other important signal in this passage, since through Istria, and at the foot of Motovun, flows a river called Mirna, for which Sinožić claims to have been named after Myrine, and actually is a mythical Scamander.

Furthermore, many Istrian toponyms and surnames are also intriguing, which can be found in Homer's epics in very similar or completely preserved forms. For example:

Tikel (surname) – Anticlea (in Greek mithology mother of Odysseus and Laertes wife) - *typical methathesis; Liretov brig (Liret's hill) – Laertes; village Ipši (pronounced Eepshie) – Hypsenor (Trojan priest); village Perhati – Percote (town near Troy); village Pariži, surname Paris – Paris (Trojan prince); village Heki – Hector (Trojan prince); village Pamići – Pammon (Hecuba's and Priam's son); small town of Žminj (pronounced Zhmeen) – Apollon Sminthius (a cult); Erik (surname) – Erichthonius (mythical king, father of Tros), Heraki (village), Herak (surname) – Heracles, and the list goes on, with more than hundred similar examples.

Long story short, Istria is a unique peninsula which hides numerous secrets in plain sight, and Troy could be just one of them, why not? Professor Sinožić’s research is work in progress and he is daily finding new evidences which will be published in his nex

Reply
Đino
12/31/2017 09:44:36 am

Long story short, Istria is a unique peninsula which hides numerous secrets in plain sight, and Troy could be just one of them, why not? Professor Sinožić’s research is work in progress and he is daily finding new evidences which will be published in his next book, among which is the “smoking gun” evidence of the overall mission to find Troy in the world, the unsolvable problem everyone in this field has met so far, the warm spring. But, there will be much more talk about this in the near future.

Reply
Marisa
6/4/2018 11:42:06 am

Đino, as usual with Croatian pseudohistorians this professor's entire argument rests upon grasping at straws by using Slavic toponyms that couldn't have been invented before the 9th century AD, when Slavs are first mentioned in Istria. In fact the first mention of Slavs in the Istrian peninsula is in a complaint by the cities and towns of Istria addressed to the Holy Roman Emperor complaining about the Slavs he'd allowed to settle in their lands raiding villages, stealing crops and allowing their animals to graze far and wide. Constantine agreed to make them move someplace else. The supposed Istrian Troy was actually called Montona until 1947.

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