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Did Ancient Aliens Improve Our DNA?

4/11/2013

52 Comments

 
This week the peer-reviewed solar system science journal Icarus published a paper by two Kazakh physicists who claim that human DNA encodes a mathematical message genetically engineered by extraterrestrial beings when they “seeded the universe” with life. According to the scientists, DNA has “precision-type orderliness”:

Simple arrangements of the code reveal an ensemble of arithmetical and ideographical patterns of the same symbolic language. Accurate and systematic, these underlying patterns appear as a product of precision logic and nontrivial computing rather than of stochastic processes (the null hypothesis that they are due to chance coupled with presumable evolutionary pathways is rejected with P-value < 10–13). The patterns are profound to the extent that the code mapping itself is uniquely deduced from their algebraic representation. The signal displays readily recognizable hallmarks of artificiality, among which are the symbol of zero, the privileged decimal syntax and semantical symmetries.

Essentially, the scientists claim that there are non-random patterns in DNA, but their conclusion does not seem to follow logically from the observation. Writing in Discovery News, astronomy writer Ray Villard noted that even taking the claim of non-random patterns in DNA at face value, it says nothing about the existence of aliens. Such patterns could be the result of hitherto unknown biological processes (including emergent phenomena inherent in DNA), or even “intelligent design” by a supernatural entity. (Villard seems weirdly concerned about how to squeeze God into the findings, asking who designed the aliens.) However, it’s probably important to also note that the Kazakh authors did not apparently test non-human DNA to see if such patterns repeat elsewhere, an important factor.

Nor are physicists necessarily the best judges of concepts outside of physics. I just got an email today from a physicist in India who has convinced himself that all earth languages are corrupt versions of Tamil, that the Tamils founded the Maya civilization, and that the Indo-Europeans stole all of their religious ideas from the Tamils. Does it surprise you that the physicist is himself Tamil? I’d like to know what biologists think of the DNA “patterns” the Kazakh physicists found.

I don’t know enough about DNA or how one would encode “the symbol of zero” into DNA to say much useful about this, but I do find it interesting how the conclusions to which the authors jump reflect a very longstanding urge among humans to seek out supernatural parentage. Looking for aliens as the authors of our DNA is a modern reflection of the ancient drive to seek out the gods as the authors of our lineage.

This Friday Ancient Aliens is doing an hour on the Vikings (tying in with History’s dramatic series), and among the Vikings it was believed that various families descended from the gods. Snorri Sturluson describes in the prologue to his Edda how various families descended from the three sons of Odin: “These forefathers ruled the land which is now called Frankland, and from them is come the race that is called the Volsungs. From all of these many and great races are descended.” Among the Greeks and Romans the same held true, for the family of Caesar claimed descent from Venus, and various and sundry men spoke of the gods as their ancestors. The incorporeal form of Zeus as a golden shower impregnated the virgin Danae with the semi-divine hero Perseus, alleged progenitor of several races. Anthropologically, innumerable cultures recognize the ability of the gods to interbreed with humans and produce a race of semi-divine beings.

That this belief was prevalent even among the Jews is in evidence from the famed passage in Genesis 6:4 when the “sons of God” had sex with the “daughters of men” and gave rise to a race of heroes. Although the Jews stopped considering the sons of God (literally: sons of the gods) to be a real supernatural race, the belief lingered on in the Levant outside of Israel, as the Qur’an suggests in describing the nebulously-defined mushrikun as believing God was the progenitor of a divine race of gods or angels (43:19) and, along with the Christians, believe him the father of one or more human children (18:4, 19:88, 21:26). Christians, of course, believe that the incorporeal form of God as the Holy Spirit impregnated the Virgin Mary with the divine hero Jesus (whose exact degree of divinity was subject to several centuries of debate). Although Jesus was not traditionally seen as the father of peoples, today alternative historians have made him into the semi-divine ancestor of a broad swath of Europe’s Caucasian elite.

It’s also interesting to note that this impulse isn’t confined to the supernatural realm. Snorri Sturluson, for example, did not view the pagan gods as divine but rather as heroic men whose lineage was possessed of great power and bravery, descended from the heroic men of Troy, who therefore seeded the wild men of the North with the civilization of the Mediterranean. (The Romans also thought that an infusion of Trojan blood gave their race a special claim to power.)

This is the same idea behind Thomas Sinclair’s claim centuries later that Native Americans were racially inferior to the point that only an infusion of superior European blood, in the form of sex with Henry Sinclair, could raise them up from savagery to barbarism. Ignatius Donnelly, too, in his books on Atlantis, saw the (white) Atlanteans as a heroic race who seeded the world with their superior blood, a concept we find anew in the work of Graham Hancock.

In adapting both the “sons of God” and the “superior bloodline” themes, ancient astronaut theorists like Erich von Däniken developed what has been dismissed as the “horny alien” hypothesis, whereby extraterrestrial beings physically mated with early humans. (And apparently still do: One British psychic recently said that she receives intense orgasms at night from the aliens.) By the infusion of their alien genes, they raised up primitive humans into the glory of full consciousness. Ancient Aliens modified this to become genetic engineering (to overcome the challenges posed by cross-species breeding), but the sexual idea lingers on in the UFO movement, where “abductees” claim that aliens sexually abuse and impregnate them in order to create “hybrid” creatures, seen as the next (often spiritual) phase in human evolution. In all cases, though, control over human reproduction is ascribed to extraterrestrial beings, and the infusion of superior non-human genes is thought to lead to an improvement in human adaptive fitness.

In this, there is really no difference between the idea that aliens are sexing up the ladies and earlier claims that the gods fathered heroes among human women. There’s probably something interesting to say about the fact that in the Western tradition male aliens and gods take a sexual interest in human females, resulting in the fathering of powerful races of heroic males (regardless of the fate of the irrelevant female sex object—Zeus would sometimes blast them to dust or turn them to animals), while the rare instance where a female alien or goddess takes up with a human male results in terror and/or death. Compare the “anal probing” of male abductees to the castration of Attis for love of Cybele, the goring of Adonis for love of Aphrodite, the violent dismemberment of Dumuzi (Tammuz) for love of Inanna, etc. Since Caesar claimed descent from Venus, it isn’t a hard and fast rule, but it seems that there was something of a double standard between gods and goddesses, and that seems to carry over into modern UFO myths, with men expressing sexual anxiety about penetration and violation while women express anxiety about parturition. 
52 Comments
Matt Mc
4/11/2013 07:19:05 am

I find it interesting that maybe that there is a theory of diffusionism that the peoples of the North are descended from the people of Troy. Great information.

So does this mean that the ignorant Native Americans only became better human beings because of interbreeding with the great European genes of the Vikings or Sinclair or whomever, really only had great Europain genes because some Persian spread his great genes to the ignorant Northern people?

So by default the true great people are Persians, the rest fo them are just ignorant aboriginals that only succeed because of interbreeding. I wonder how the Diffusionist feel about them just being a half breed race. Fitting if you ask me


Reply
The Other J.
4/11/2013 09:24:03 am

Think about that for a second; it suggests that the whole of Western Civilization was fostered by absentee baby daddies.

Reply
Robin Swope
4/11/2013 08:05:18 am

Isn't this hypothesis (DNA is encoded with a 'message' from a superior alien race responsible for panspermia) is the same as the main plot for the Star Trek:TNG episode "The Chase" (Season 6 episode 20)?
The synopsis: "Picard tries to finish his old archaeology teacher's monumental last mission: solving a puzzle that leads Humans, Romulans, Klingons and Cardassians to the secret of life in this galaxy, revealing the origin of humanoid life."

Reply
Jason Colavito link
4/11/2013 08:10:24 am

Not to mention Ridley Scott's von Daniken-inspired Prometheus.

Reply
Aaron Adair link
4/11/2013 09:56:41 am

Between the ST:TNG episode and Prometheus, I think we know which was the better.

Mila
4/11/2013 10:38:06 am


There is an author who wrote 2 books available for free on Internet: The Programming of the Planet and The Eye of the Ra.

He claimed that he was abducted and ET’s collected his sperm for most of his life. In 2011, he stated that since he was in his 60’s, ET’s stopped collecting his sperm. Luckily, one year later, he forgot to what he wrote before and he delivered a quite colorful story about his abduction and sperm collection.

He is quite creative as he connected his abductions with past life regression therapy, claiming that he was Ramses in his past life. The book of Ra is a result of his…recovering memory. lol BTW, he also claimed that he got a brain implant.Creativity is unlimited.

Reply
The Other J.
4/11/2013 09:12:04 am

Jason, are you familiar with Thor Heyerdahl's final project, the work he was doing in Azerbaijan when he died? I came across it years ago, and the work was never completed because Heyerdahl passed, but it's related to Sturluson's account of where the Scandinavian people came from (and isn't all that paranormal or alientastic).

Here's the short version, from what I remember: Archaeologists in Azerbaijan had come across some petroglyphs of boats that didn't resemble other glyphs they'd seen in the area, but did look similar to Viking ships. Not exact, but enough of a resemblance that that's where they went. Eventually they called in Heyerdahl to have a look, and the location reminded Heyerdahl of Sturluson's account of people coming from Troy. Linguistically, they were linking Azerbaijan, the land of the Azeri, with the Aesir; and the nearby Lake Van region with the Vanir. (Both Azerbaijan and Lake Van are in eastern Asia Minor, modern Turkey; Azerbaijan is of course its own political entity today, but it's in the same region as Turkey's Lake Van).

Heyerdahl and the rest were going with the idea that Odin was a heroic leader who helped organize and lead a tribe of Azeri/Aesir and a tribe from Lake Van/Vanir north, and they eventually settled in Sweden. Over time the heroic leader and his council were mythologized into the gods they have now.

So they were looking for more evidence of such a leader and these tribes migration, and apparently found a coin with 'Odin' or 'Oden' or it's equivalent on it. But Azerbaijan isn't the most politically stable place with plenty of capital to fund such work, and after Heyerdahl died, it looks like all the work stopped.

It's been years since I saw those reports or tried following up on them, and I probably have some of the details wrong, but just curious if you or anyone else here knows anything about work.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
4/11/2013 01:09:09 pm

It's an interesting idea, I guess, in that it's not entirely impossible. After all, (a) the Vikings were in Russia, so it's not too much of a stretch, and (b) Norse mythology was Indo-European, so other Indo-European analogues were likely present in the region from ancient times, accounting for some of the similarities and possibly for transmission, depending on where one hypothesizes the IE homeland was. The problem, of course, is that Heyerdahl pretty much ignored these two points and focused on proving that his version of Snorri's rationalized Roman-Norse Christian-pagan conflation was literally true.

Reply
John McKay link
4/11/2013 03:28:42 pm

The Azeri are a Turkic people who didn't arrive in the Caucasus until about two thousand years after the Trojan War. It the words Azeri and Aesir have any relation, it moved the other direction.

Reply
Tara Jordan
4/11/2013 11:25:25 pm

It is not surprising that Americans are using Thor Heyerdahl`s theories to promote wacky ethno-archeology & rewrite history. Thor Heyerdahl was a diffusionist, a semi intellectual quack with no serious academic & (or) scientific training.The man was a cultural sponge,a precursor in loony alternative history,a David Hatcher Childress predecessor. I`m half Brit Half Swede & I find the idea that Viking (Scandinavians) came from Azerbaijan, utterly preposterous.Scandinavians already lived in the region during the Stone Age.The Search for Odin -Oden in Azerbaijan might be undertaken in Japan as well,since Japanese also have the word "Oden" (おでん) in their vocabulary.Thor Heyerdahl linguistic correlations are as bad as Jordan Maxwell etymological "studies".

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The Other J.
4/12/2013 01:58:54 pm

No matter how wack the theory (and everybody first arrived from someplace else), it's probably important to point out that it was Azerbaijan's project to begin with, and they brought in Heyerdahl to examine what they had, not the other way around.

Could they have chosen better? Probably. But I'm not sure that it's fair in this case to link what they did to the kind of work someone like Wolter is doing. Heyerdahl may have steered it in that direction, and whether it's true or not, it's still using an east-to-west migration model, as opposed to west-to-east. Besides, also wouldn't necessarily negate the possibility of an earlier Indo-European common story that informed both regions.

Speaking of which -- and Japan -- I learned something weird about Japan in grad school. Apparently they have an old warrior tale that follows a very similar structure as Beowulf, at least with the monster and the monster's mother. I don't know the name of the story -- my professor just brought it up once while we were discussing other stories that appear in Beowulf and parts of Beowulf that appear elsewhere. He didn't go into detail, except to say that it most likely points towards a common Indo-European root for the story, one version that went west and another version that went east and ended up in Japan. There's even a location in the Tarim Basin in China that looks like an ancient trade hub, where goods and certainly stories were crossing both east and west.

Tara Jordan
4/12/2013 07:26:51 pm

Of course we all come from "somewhere" but speculation for the sake of speculation doesn't bring anything to a cultural & historical heritage.It may in fact have very negative impacts,leading to ethnocentrism,chauvinism,extreme nationalism & outright xenophobia.This is my main issue with " alternative historians",most of their theories have racist undertones (most of non Western civilizational achievements are in fact the direct byproduct of Western (white) diffusionism. But Nubians were already building pyramids & ruling over the Egypt 25th Dynasty,when Scott Wolter`s ancestors were walking barefoot & cannibalizing each others.


If you`re looking for strange similarity between Scandinavian & Japanese folk culture, you should check the Japanese Kappa story.The Japanese Kappa Yokai is similar to the Scandinavian water spirit Näck. Although Japanese scholars have since identified the source of the story & it is related to the Portuguese Jesuits & missionaries interactions in Japan mid 1500`s.

Shawn Flynn
4/11/2013 09:27:08 am

I never understood why people would think aliens/angels would find humans women appealing. Wouldn't it basically be beastiality for them?

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Geoff link
4/11/2013 04:11:43 pm

Its is most likely that the Nephilim were what you might call "despotic rulers". In Genesis to this point there has been a downward spiral of people doing bad stuff. Cain kills Abel because he has God's favour. Lamech kills someone for bumping into him, and takes several wives. Now these despotic rulers - imagine a bunch of terrifyingly powerful warlords who pretty much can do anything they want. In fact, we have the story of Gilgamesh, 1/3 man, and 2/3's God, who can rock up to a wedding and take the wife out to the ceremonial marriage bed and take her virginity whilst the families of both sides are powerless to do anything.

Basically.. that is it. It is a theme that runs through the opening passages of Genesis up to chapter 11 and the tower of babel.

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Thane
4/11/2013 01:15:32 pm

If I recall correctly most kings and tyrants did their best to tie their lineage to great heroes and the gods of their people. Alexander the Great, for example, claimed descent both from Hercules and Zeus. Kings of England could trace their lineage back to Arthur.

Everyone wants to find some connection to a glorious and heroic past. This may be part of what is driving the increased interest in genealogy. IT was also something that made hypnotic past life regression (where everyone under treatment was found to be the reincarnation of Cleopatra or some ancient king, queen or hero ....funny how that worked out)

I read an article somewhere (damn my bad memory) wherein it was speculated that the increasing interest in new age religions (and I would add to that Ancient Alien theory) is directly proportional to the decrease in the membership./identification with traditional religion. It seems that humans need to believe in something. And if they don't believe in traditional religion, they find something else to fill that void such as crystals, magic, aliens, etc....

So, traditionally God (or gods) made man...now, it's aliens engineering man. Six of one, half dozen of the other. It's just the same old creation myth with new clothes. Somebody did something that made us.

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Gunn
4/11/2013 01:20:29 pm

In order to believe in both creationism and evolution, it almost seems as though humans were brought up to a point of intelligence, at which point they were "human enough" to be endowed with souls, or spirits. Unless one believes in the literal act of Adam and Eve being created out of the dust of the earth, separately from evolution. Either way seems to be acceptable if God is the One doing the creating. Who will question His methods or ambitions?

From Jason: "Christians, of course, believe that the incorporeal form of God as the Holy Spirit impregnated the Virgin Mary with the divine hero Jesus (whose exact degree of divinity was subject to several centuries of debate). Although Jesus was not traditionally seen as the father of peoples, today alternative historians have made him into the semi-divine ancestor of a broad swath of Europe’s Caucasian elite."

Jason, do a quick study of the prophesies in the Old Testament that refer directly to the coming of Jesus. If you have never done this before, you may be impressed. There shouldn't be any diminishing of His divinity. He was clear about being God in the flesh.

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Jason Colavito link
4/11/2013 01:44:45 pm

That's a Christian interpretation of the Hebrew Bible, one that of course Jews deny. Most of the "prophecies" are post hoc attempts to fit to the facts, and as I said, the Church Fathers spent hundreds of years parsing whether Jesus was fully God, fully man, half-and-half, both at once, neither, etc.

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Gunn
4/11/2013 02:51:28 pm

I know, many Jews are still waiting for the Messiah. They somehow missed His coming.

Anyway, if you don't mind, I'd like to at least show some of what Jesus said about Himself:

John 8:56-58: “Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” “You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham?” “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am.”

Compare this verse to Exodus 3:14 which reads, God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Obviously, Jesus was claiming to be the same “I AM” (God) who spoke to Moses.

John 10:30-33: Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.” Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

Why do you think Jesus was crucified? It was because the Jews knew Jesus was claiming to be their messiah (see Matthew 14:32-33).

John 14:6-9: Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’?”

Here again, Jesus is saying he and God the Father are one. In all of these passages, Jesus is clearly claiming to be God.

Christopher Randolph
4/11/2013 07:20:53 pm

Gunn, did you "miss" Mohammed, and the Quran?

"That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. ..." (Maryam 19:34-35)

Thus we can play Dueling Holy Books all day long, each as true as anyone want each to be.

Gunn
4/12/2013 05:33:01 am

Forget about it, Christopher. I don't want Jason's blog to be the catalyst for WW-III.

(Just to say that Jesus came several hundred years before the other one, and His coming was heavily prophesied in the OT.)

Christopher Randolph
4/12/2013 06:14:49 am

Gunn -

I'm not sure if you missed my point or you're ignoring it.

My point is not so much whether Christianity or Islam is correct (my view is both are compiled fictions, as is Judaism) but that a Muslim might well have the same level of disdain for your "missing" of Mohammed that you displayed of Jews' "missing" of Jesus. And that this would be based in the equally shaky ground of quoting solely from one holy book as a source that the target of the disdain in both cases (the Quran from your view or the NT from the Jewish view) need not concern the target. The hope was that you might gain some empathy for the Jewish position and not go around casually posting that an entire faith tradition "missed" something you happen to believe in and they don't, nor would they be definitionally compelled to for any reason.

Mila
4/12/2013 06:43:06 am

It sounds that you consider Church Fathers as authorities. Why don’t you do some research about Church Fathers. It would be a quite interesting blog…..much more interesting that alternative history or aliens.

Jason Colavito link
4/12/2013 07:28:58 am

Were you speaking to me, Mila? I don't consider the Church Fathers authorities. Like any ancient texts, they are evidence for what people thought and believed at the time they were written.

Gunn
4/12/2013 07:57:05 am

From Christopher to Gunn: "The hope was that you might gain some empathy for the Jewish position and not go around casually posting that an entire faith tradition "missed" something you happen to believe in and they don't, nor would they be definitionally compelled to for any reason."

But, well, I guess they would be definitionally compelled to if there was adequate foreknowledge of His coming. But I understand your point, and I hope you don't think I really was saying that an entire faith tradition missed His coming...there are thousands upon thousands if not millions of Christian Jews, many converts from Judaism.

I leave now in peace. Thanks for your comments to consider.

Christopher Randolph
4/12/2013 08:27:08 am

Gunn -

Can we get a reference for your claim that MILLIONS of Jews have converted to Christianity? "Millions" would be at least 2 million by any reading. The entire Jewish population of the planet is estimated to be a bit more than 13 million... and by your reckoning is at this rate in immediate danger of disappearing.

You're claiming that about 15% of the world's Jews convert to Christianity, which I find quite the extraordinary claim (not that thus generally slows you on other issues). Your faux-humble response is likely more offensive to Jews than your opening salvo.

According to some spectacular work by Shlomo Sand, it may well be that most ancestors of European Jews actually converted from Christianity... representing rather a smaller minority of available Christians than 15%.

Jim
4/12/2013 08:35:18 am

...and what about the Christians that convert to Muslim? If we take the assertion that Jews converting to Christianity somehow prove the correctness of the NT over the OT, then wouldn't the fact that a non-trivial number (I won't say 'millions') of Christians converting to Muslim proves that the Koran is more correct than the NT?

Mila
4/12/2013 10:39:28 am

Yes, Jason, sorry that I didn’t make it clear. Well, the way you wrote about Church Fathers gave an impression that you considered them as authorities.

I would never seriously consider their opinion, and as such, I wouldn’t even use them as an argument.

Gunn
4/12/2013 12:00:21 pm

Christopher, how about if we add in all the Jews who converted to Christianity over the last two thousand years? Converted Jews don't disappear when they die...they still exist, collecting up in numbers. I wasn't sure, which is why I said thousands and thousands if not millions. You almost got me on that one!

The Other J.
4/12/2013 04:10:03 pm

If you want to count all the Jews who converted to Christianity in the last 2,000 years, don't forget the ones who were forced to convert by force on pain of death; compelled to outwardly appear as practicing Christians while maintaining their own faith traditions in private; or converted or gave up their religion due to the social pressures of assimilation after immigration (hi grandma!).

And for Christopher: It may be even better than 15%; I believe the actual percentages of Jewish converts and people losing their faith is going down, and the number of practicing Jews is on the rise (but this may be just in America). According to the North American Jewish Data Bank (UConn), the population in the United States as of 2010 was around 6.4 million, up from around 5.4 million in 1990.

But Judaism is a little more flexible when it comes to its adherents; you can be atheist and still a practicing Jew (at least in reform), as long as you follow the teachings. It's more about deeds than creeds.

Christopher Randolph
4/13/2013 02:20:44 am

Other J. -

Might that be immigration, especially from the former Soviet Union (plus some from Israel)? Really an issue of shifting population more than conversion I believe. Also people are living slightly longer, which can briefly pad numbers.

The % of Jewish Americans has dropped since the early to mid 20th century. It's not keeping pace with the overall growth of American population, which is also primarily immigration-driven:

http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Reports/Jewish_Population_in_the_United_States_2011.pdf

Last month's Harper's magazine incidentally had a couple of stats that the 2013 % of American foreign-born population is actually slightly less than the 1913 % of American foreign-born population.

I suppose if we're going back 2000 years and counting all the forced conversions we might hit 2 million. Not sure what point that bolsters...

Gunn
4/13/2013 03:21:33 am

It bolsters the point that I don't have an imaginary "disdain" for Jews as an "entire faith tradition" who are missing out. Stop twisting and turning and get over it.

I have not disdain for Jews. Some people tried to turn me into a racist here, too, without success; but I gladly love people of all races, religions and creeds. "The people" isn't the issue, it's what's in their hearts. May this line turn into a completed circle now?

The Other J.
4/13/2013 05:12:20 am

Christopher --

The report only looks at Jews in the U.S., not worldwide, and it's a slight uptick. It does include immigration, but the same group also has worldwide estimates at 13,746,100, and 80% of that is accounted for in the U.S. and Israel; the other 20% comes from 13 other countries. It's not a huge increase, but in the U.S. and Israel, there's a slight increase over the last 20 years.

I'm not sure there's too much systematic forced conversion in the U.S. today, so the report doesn't account for that. About the only place I've heard of Jews being pressured to convert in the contemporary U.S. is in the Air Force Academy. But apparently even Catholics and Lutherans aren't Christian enough for them.

Christopher Randolph
4/13/2013 08:29:57 am

Other J. -

I know the study only looks at the US... what I'm saying is that I should think the numbers *in the US* have gone up since 1990 (in fact is this not in fact the perfect year to measure from..?) due to immigration from the former USSR. I don't know that we're actually disagreeing about anything.

Gunn -

It's amazing to me that you don't see how your statement that Jews "missed" Christianity isn't offensive to Jews. You're so you-centric (as are the whole compliment of alternative history people) that others' perspectives don't even occur to you. Not for the first time you're also missing that the historical context of you being in a majority - and the specific one that oppressed the specific minority group you're discussing - makes this out of the blue 'observation' particularly distasteful.

Gunn
4/13/2013 11:27:57 am

Christopher says: It's amazing to me that you don't see how your statement that Jews "missed" Christianity isn't offensive to Jews.

Okay, look, you're wrong. I do see how my views can be offensive to some non-Christian Jews, but the viewpoint is common among Christians--and converted Jews, too. Pick up as many stones as you can hold and start throwing them at Christians and converted Jews everywhere if you must. You might as well include Muslims and anyone else who believes in God, which seems to be your ultimate beef as an avowed atheist, or agnostic.

But If one considers that about three hundred prophecies in the Old Testament refer to Jesus' coming, what is one to think if the prophecies are overlooked? Whether they were overlooked on purpose or not is another matter entirely...and today it is a personal matter still under consideration for some. People tend to investigate and then believe what they want to.

You're a hard one to please, Christopher. Be my guest and have the last word. Hopefully, not to much name-calling. I'm neither anti-Jewish, nor racist. There will be plenty of room enough in heaven, and God is not a respecter of persons. Everything will be fairly judged, not by you or me, but by "I AM."

Christopher Randolph
4/14/2013 04:39:33 am

I'm not a "hard one to please", I just think that's it's well beyond absurd that for the second time in this sub-thread alone your 'apology' or at least 'mitigating post' about the minority group you've taken a clumsy whack at contains ANOTHER whack at them, all during another one of the faux-humble Christian defensive declarations that garted on me even back in my youth when I identified as Christian.

We can see it's quite impossible for you to state that you're not anti-Jewish without throwing in the gratuitous suggestion - for the third time in total in one thread - that Judaism is heretical and flawed based in the apparent idiocy of the whole world's Jewish population as regards their own faith.

What tends to set the atheist or agnostic apart from the believer in these situations is that we don't single out specific groups for this type of abuse. Most of us most of the time seem to take some care to note the difference between arguing faith-based claims in general and singling out a minority group for special attentions. Again you seem absolutely tone-deaf to the fact that Jews have faced persecution or lesser discrimination within your society from your majority group and this makes for a very bad context in which to be discussing the general wrongness of Judaism to the exclusion of all of the other religions you also think are wrong.

In fact I'm abundantly sure that you have numerous irreconcilable theological quarrels with other Christians as well, but avoiding that and focusing on Jews given our history and society rubs this atheist the wrong way.

The phrase "non-Christian Jews" is pregnant with your worldview that it's the majority of the world's Jews who are doing something abnormal, and the tiny minority of people born into ethnically-identified Jewish families who end up Christian are doing something normal. Apparently just as you know more about archeology than archeologists you know more about Judaism than Jews.

Gunn
4/16/2013 04:52:52 am

http://www.jewishvoice.org/media/television-show/

Thane
4/11/2013 01:23:32 pm

One other thing, it's not just a "Western tradition" gods that take an interest in human women. It's pretty universal.

Krishna is a good example. He's well known for fooling around with shepherdesses while he lived with his human foster parents.

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Jason Colavito link
4/11/2013 01:42:43 pm

True. I figured that if I said it was a universal someone would come up with a culture I'm not familiar with where a goddess was in charge and mating with the menfolk. There's speculation that Catal Huyuk and the Minoans might have favored this pattern.

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Thane
4/11/2013 03:51:03 pm

I am not well read on goddess faiths. Mythology and comparative religions are just one hobby area for reading. Joseph Campbell had an interesting take on the disappearance of goddess dominate / matriarchal societies in favor of the god / patriarchal societies. He believed that the migration of tribes conquering new territories resulted in the new dominate culture integrating the previously dominate culture / religion through myth. Hence Zeus and his many mistresses..some of who may have been ancient goddesses demoted while others remained goddesses and perhaps were reassigned roles in the new dominate culture...perhaps as daughters of Zeus or so on.

I am sure that in some matriarchal society there were goddesses with boy-toys of their own...no doubt of the heroic bent.

But so much is lost over the eons...there are things we will never know.

Jim
4/11/2013 06:34:52 pm

I'm neither a geneticist nor an expert in information theory, but this claim seems rather thin at first glance. My simple understanding is that DNA exists to encode and copy information and make proteins. It is constructed like a zipper joined by two base pairs; A & T, and G & C. The information is encoded by the ordering of these pairs into codons made of 3 nucleotides. So you can kind of think of the base pairs as the alphabet, the codons as words, the DNA strand as sentences, and the entire genome a book.

Just like we use alphabets, words, and sentences to encode information in language, so does DNA encode information. Patterns must exist because, without them, there is no information, just random noise. The big story would be if we discovered that DNA was void of any kind of symbolic language.

Again, I am no expert in this matter, but non-trivial computing should be expected for any system that uses nothing but three letter words made from a four letter alphabet to encode all the information that is needed to create any known life form. Now I am motivated to look deeper into this claim.

What would be really amazing is if there were an actual message encoded into the genome that explained who the 'engineers' were, where they came from, and why they made us - regardless if they were aliens, God, Buddha, Zeus, the Spagetti Monster, or Templars. It reminds me of the Karl Sagan book Contact where they are searching for an encoded message in the number pi (that part was omitted from the movie).

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Jim
4/11/2013 07:06:02 pm

Jason,
Your quote from the article "P-value < 10–13" should be "P-value < 10^-13", or 0.0000000000001. The usual criteria for rejecting the null hypothesis is P < 0.05 or P < 0.01; however, the P value may not be relavent here. To quote Wikipedia:

"The p-value is not the probability that the null hypothesis is true, nor is it the probability that the alternative hypothesis is false – it is not connected to either of these.
In fact, frequentist statistics does not, and cannot, attach probabilities to hypotheses. Comparison of Bayesian and classical approaches shows that a p-value can be very close to zero while the posterior probability of the null is very close to unity (if there is no alternative hypothesis with a large enough a priori probability and which would explain the results more easily)."

In other words, an experiment with a p=value approaching zero could end up with the null-hypothesis being nearly certain after the experiment if there is no other hypothesis with a high enough probability that can explain the results more easily. I think evolution has a high probability and explains the existence of encoded symbolic data in DNA easier then aliens...

Did I mention I'm not a statistician either?

It's getting late now; I'll finish reading their paper tomorrow. Sorry for rambling on.

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Jim
4/11/2013 07:09:57 pm

"easier then aliens..." should be "easier than aliens..." There's probably many more typos. I shouldn't post messages when it's this much past my bedtime,

Christopher Randolph
4/12/2013 03:52:42 am

Interesting stuff, Jim!

I entered college as a putative pre-med bio major with med school plans, although a couple years in I made a hard turn into the humanities. This is a subject which interests me although I'm no expert.

From what I recalled most DNA in a human is not encoding protein sequences. Looking it up just now what I wasn't prepared for is that up to 98% (!!!) does not... at least as far as we know:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noncoding_DNA

It appears that we don't even know how much we don't know about DNA yet.

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Jim
4/12/2013 06:31:26 am

Not all non-coding DNA is useless 'garbage', but we are definitely very far from a comprehensive understanding of all the mechanics underlying DNA. For me, one of the more fascinating aspects of non-coding DNA is that of endogenous retroviruses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus, which is a virus that has become incorporated into the host's genome, and often mutated into non-coding DNA in later generations.

On a related note, creationists are trying to assert that there is no non-coding DNA because an intelligent designer wouldn't leave garbage in the genome. ScepticBlog has an interesting post by Donald Prothero on this this topic http://www.skepticblog.org/2013/02/27/junk-dna-and-creationist-lies/.

The Other J.
4/12/2013 04:18:59 pm

If an encoded message was ever discovered within human DNA, I'd hope that message was "Don't Panic."

And if they found that message, I'd hope it was also found in dog DNA, squid DNA, clam DNA, parrot DNA, all of it. Except for the platypus; that message says "Panic."

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Gunn
4/12/2013 05:15:57 am

Having a touch of the "Divine Curse" or the "Jewish Disease," as folks used to call it (TS), I have a natural interest and curiosity about the disorder. In most cases it is passed down through a parent.

If one were to go back far enough in time with my own bloodline or DNA, a "marker" would be found for TS. Markers would be found for all kinds of naturally and unnaturally occurring mutations, maybe particular eye color, and other human characteristics deemed both good or bad...tallness or baldness, for example.

If people with money think it is okay to own DNA sequences for tinkering and profit, I guess it's not surprising that others will find uses for misappropriating what should be publicly-owned DNA information.

It's true that the profit motive can and will drive research, but governments should protect human DNA from being wrongfully used, such as mostly for profit. The idea of owning particular human DNA, such as in patents, seems unethical somehow, as though that study and information should belong to "the People."The DNA and the information about DNA should not be privatized, in my opinion, any more than, say, Corrections should be privatized away from government responsibility. Just my own humble opinion.

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Jim
4/12/2013 06:44:28 am

The supreme court is hearing a case next week that could make DNA sequences unpatentable - http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-04-05/opinions/38307541_1_gene-patents-myriad-s-polio-vaccine.

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Gunn
4/12/2013 12:22:20 pm

Thanks for that link, Jim. I hadn't looked into this for a few years, so I'm glad for the update. Apparently, a lot of people are offended by what has happened. Human genome greed of ownership is going too far. I'm posting the powerful opening of the article:

"Asked in 1955 whether his polio vaccine was patented, Jonas Salk replied, “There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?” With that, Salk debunked the misguided notion of patenting objects found in nature. His polio vaccine was not a new invention but an inactive form of the natural polio virus.

Today, Salk would be shocked to find that your DNA belongs not to you but rather to many companies and institutions that have patents on the DNA from your cells. Forty-one percent of the genes in your genome are not legally yours, according to a long list of gene patents that have been granted since the 1980s. These patents cover thousands of human genes and restrict a doctor’s ability to look at your DNA and plan your medical treatment."

Jim
4/12/2013 03:06:48 pm

Gunn,
I'm glad you enjoyed the article. I'll be watching this case; I hope the courts do the right thing. Next they need to fix the issue with companies that patent vague software and UI concepts and then sue the companies who eventually put in the effort to make a viable product that implements one of these ideas.

Gunn
4/13/2013 04:01:17 am

Right, Jim. When patenting my own double-enclosed vertical-axis wind turbine for building tops in good wind zones, I came upon a group of lawyer/inventors from Texas who had tried to patent the very idea of having a wind turbine in a structure, as though they were the first to come up with this idea. The only problem is that the ancient Iranians had already come up with the concept, along with ancient others, I'm sure. The Chinese even had land sailing vessels (wagons).

The point of course is that people try to get ownership of something that they don't deserve to have ownership of. And then there are the impostors, too. No, not aliens.

In MN here, I've discovered an impostor (in my opinion) who is taking in a bundle of investors' money and using some of it to then fool the local media here. I fronted-off this fellow, this Dr. of Engineering, and I even discovered that he underhandedly tried to influence blogs as an impostor, too...such as with The Minneapolis Star Tribune's blog. You can see both my wind turbine and a page about the impostor at: www.hallmarkemporium.com

(Sorry, the pertinence is blog fraud. Maybe I should contact Jason with a paid assignment offer? Who better to expose this fellow fully, with determination?)

Just kidding, but the nerve of some people!

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Ray Marks link
8/8/2014 10:13:44 am

It would appear rather to be the opposite, that God used DNA damage to dumb us down and make us sick. We have disabled abilities.

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AZ link
6/24/2018 12:13:15 am

I promise the only reason this is a subject is so I can see where your creativity will take me thank you

- I

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      • Extreme History >
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        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Remarkable Discoveries Within the Sphinx (Hoax)
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • The Shaver Mystery >
          • Lovecraft and the Deros
          • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
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        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
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        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
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        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
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        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
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        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
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        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
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      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • The Fall of the Sky
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
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      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
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      • Defining a Zombie
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      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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