It’s still early, and today I’ve already been accused of having an “almost pathological” obsession with Ancient Aliens on Twitter and also on my blog of being in denial about the importance of ancient India to Greek philosophy. The first question is a refreshing change of pace from the usual complaint that I am obsessed with America Unearthed. If Joe Rogan’s new show had more to say about ancient history and less about alleged Bigfoot-human hybrids, I’d review that and get charged with an unwholesome obsession there, too. The poster writing under the name M. V. Jain suggests—well, Jain says a lot of things—that I am downplaying the evidence that ancient India contributed heavily to the development of ancient Greece, particularly its philosophy. This is a variation of the “Black Athena” theme from earlier decades, though one with a longer pedigree.
Ultimately, the claim that India influenced ancient Greece before the time of Alexander (when an Indo-Greek kingdom was established) derives from the early observation of the close similarity between Sanskrit, Greek, and Latin—known since the early modern period—which suggested to early scholars that Sanskrit, believed to be the oldest of the three, necessarily belonged to an ur-culture that yielded the other two. Today, we know that all three languages (and many more) share a common heritage from the much earlier Proto-Indo-European people. This is, for example, why similar events occur in the Mahabharata and the Iliad, or why the Greek god Zeus (Dios) shares his name with the Vedic Dyaus. Thus, common elements of mythology—and therefore the philosophical ideas that emerged from them—came from this shared heritage. But in order to evaluate whether India contributed directly to Greece, we need to think about a specific timeline to see if it’s possible. The earliest Greek report we have of India is in the fragments of Ctesias from the fifth century BCE, but his report was not firsthand. Instead, he describes how the Persians viewed India, a secondhand source. Eusebius also says an Indian was resident at Athens in Socrates’ day, but most scholars think this is a later invention. Around 300 BCE, Megasthenes actually traveled to India, and he is the first Greek on record as having visited India, either in Greek or Indian records. Later writers like Strabo, Arrian, Diodorus, and Pliny make use of his work. Megasthenes is important, I suppose, because he is the warrant for supposing earlier influence of Greece on India or vice versa. He claims, for example, that Heracles and Dionysus had previously explored India (Strabo 15.1.6), though this was an interpretatio graeca of the Hindu gods. Some have tried to identify this Heracles with Indra, but this is not certain. More to the point, Megasthenes wrote that the Brahmans held “several of the same doctrines which are current among the Greeks… They have also conceived many fanciful speculations, after the manner of Plato…” (Strabo 15.1.59). He also said, “All that was said about nature by the ancients is said also by those who philosophise beyond Greece: some things by the Brahmins among the Indians, and others by those called Jews in Syria” (Clement, Stromata 1.15). This, some feel, indicates that the Indians gave these doctrines to Greece, even though Megasthenes calls them “childish” and only encountered them two centuries later. While Clement of Alexandria used this to argue that Greek and Indian philosophy was ultimately derived from the Jews (and was thus Biblical), Megasthenes actually meant (as Strabo noted) only to compare the two philosophies and to point to similarities of doctrine, not to propose a common origin; and at any rate, he attributed Indian philosophy to Dionysus, which would put the Greeks first (in his view). After him, the Greeks and Romans were in more or less regular contact with India, and we need not care about what they did. In the 1950s, George P. Conger tried to resurrect the Indian origins idea, seeking to relate Hesiod and Homer to Indian analogues (apparently hoping to minimize the inheritance of the Indo-Europeans, which he considered primeval Aryanism). He found influence from India in the doctrines of the pre-Socratic philosophers, but his examples are only fragmentary similarities between metaphysical concepts, which he admits could well have diffused westward via Persia and Babylon. If there were a connection between Indian philosophy and early Greek philosophy, it would have had to travel along that route rather than by direct contact. The fact of the matter is that ancient cultures bordered each other, and their ideas did not stay within the limits of their cities. India traded with Mesopotamia; Mesopotamia traded with Syria and Anatolia. Both of those places traded with the Mycenaeans and the Greeks. It used to be verboten to argue that the Greeks borrowed anything from the non-Greeks, but today we recognize a vast debt Greece owed to the ancient Near East. Conger argued that “indirect” influence emanated from India, and that’s probably about right (if somewhat overstated), mediated through the ancient Near East, which we know securely was a source for Greek myth, cult, and philosophy—though the influence was never one way and probably involved the diffusion of ideas in multiple directions.
61 Comments
Cathleen Anderson
7/26/2013 09:44:32 am
So, does that make me obsessed, since I read your column regularly and sometimes comment.
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Bill
7/26/2013 11:51:43 am
You are only vicariously obsessed.
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The Other J.
7/26/2013 10:28:08 pm
There was one typo -- "Proto-Indo-Europeans people." "Europeans" doesn't need to be plural. Not that I'm obsessing.
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7/26/2013 11:26:58 pm
I fixed the typo. Someday, I will post something that doesn't have typos. Of course that means that at some point my typing will improve, and that hasn't happened over the past few decades, so I wouldn't hold my breath!
Constantinos Kyriakopoulos
1/27/2020 08:44:56 pm
Never ever have I read so much rubbish. Everybody wants a piece of the Hellenic Glory. Sorry Indians but we (Greece) are the center of the world as civilization began in the Aegean. Everything you see in this world came from the Greeks.
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KLANMAN
2/13/2020 07:34:06 pm
You're funny! I'm sure you're able to find a way to explain the how the Universe came about as a result of Zeus' flatulence! (Zeus of course being the later Greek cognate of the 12,000 year old Indian deity, Dayus Pita). It's weird how Greeks & Romans speak about ancient India & Indians, but Indians in all their ancient text speak nothing of the Greeks! They didn't even mention "Alexander the Slav"...Heh heh heh. You're funny!
CFC
7/26/2013 12:59:17 pm
I wouldn’t call it an obsession. America Unearthed and Committee Films are in the business of exploiting gullible people and contributing to misinforming them about real science and archaeology. I would say you’re providing a great service by outing their deception.
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Tara Jordan
7/26/2013 04:40:17 pm
From the perspective of non US citizen, I see the entire US educational system,the media & political establishment as contributing to misinform the public about the world.Hence the famous quotation: "each & every time the US engages a military operation against a foreign country,Americans learn about geography".The latest American phobia: Iran is an immediate threat to the security of the United States (approx: 7000 miles).
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varika
7/27/2013 06:16:00 am
Tara, of necessity, educational systems lag behind the latest information. Japan has its prejudices, too. As for the "famous quotation," that is ALSO not a phenomenon unique to the US; I went to school in California with a girl from Japan who didn't realize that neither Canada nor Mexico are part of the US and had never heard of Delaware, where I'm from, which was the very FIRST state to ratify the Constitution. People mostly remember what geography they're exposed to regularly, not what they learned in the third grade and never had occasion to use again. How much of the geography of, say, South America could you recite without looking it up, for instance? However much it is, probably doesn't come close to how much someone who lives there could. I could say that I know there are three main islands in Japan and that Tokyo is at the southern end of the largest, bordering on the Pacific Ocean; you who lives there could certainly detail me much, much, much more.
Tara Jordan
7/27/2013 07:22:04 am
Varika.People in the US are not particularly preoccupied with Iran at this moment,but this perception may be subject to change.Dont underestimate the power of propaganda & media spin.I don't have to tell you about the circumstances that brought Bush junior to the White house,but he "won" with a slight margin & despite being extremely unpopular by mid 2002,86% of Americans supported the US invasion of Iraq,courtesy of the propaganda & the official story telling.(again I am referring to the Iraq issue because we have enough distance & understanding of what actually happened).
Cora
7/26/2013 02:31:37 pm
Nice post Jason!
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The Other J.
7/26/2013 10:56:15 pm
You're "almost pathological," Jason -- some would say even "scholarly." Some would mean that as an insult; some wouldn't. I don't.
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7/26/2013 11:35:19 pm
Surprisingly, there is less about them than you'd think. Apparently, publishers think that only specialized scholars are interested in the PIE people. There are some interesting books on the subject. There's an overview by J. P. Mallory and Douglas Q. Adams in "The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-Europeans and the Proto-Indo-European World" (Oxford, 2006) and M. L. West's "Indo-European Poetry and Myth" (Oxford, 2007). If you have access, Peter Jackson's article "Light from Distant Asterisks" (Numen, Vol. 49, No. 1 (2002), pp. 61-102) is also a good overview of current evidence.
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The Other J.
7/27/2013 07:35:51 am
Cheers, thanks for the tips -- I do have access to Numen, and just nabbed Jackson's article.
BobM
7/28/2013 02:29:23 pm
There was some suggestion when I was studying eastern and western medical systems, that the Indian system of medicine was influenced by Greece, and possibly vice versa can't remember :-). Plus I was busy setting people straight on just because something's been used for 3000 years (actually a lot less) it must be good :-).
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Aumkar
8/29/2013 05:21:40 pm
But after all Vedas were there thousand year before it was written down somewhere around 1500 BC.. much earlier and all these philosophies which are said to be similar were already there in Vedas. So there remains two options:
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Manik Ghoshal
11/6/2017 05:10:02 pm
Hi Aumkar, it’s true the River Saraswati dried up before 2000 BC. But it may have been at its peak flow a few thousand years before- it may have taken many thousands of years to gradually disappear. In the Vedas it’s written that Saraswati was the mother of [mightier than] Indus River. It was the Devi among rivers. Thus it’s true that the Vedas may have been written up to 7-8 thousand years ago. There are flood stories in Sanskrit scriptures from India from the time ice melted after Ice Age- probably 8-9 thousand years ago. It was the ice melt which made Saraswati such a mighty River- up to seven miles wide judging by its valley in Punjab.
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Vinay Seth
4/4/2018 04:24:57 pm
Hi Aumkar. Could I please have a link to the source you're relaying your information from? Or the book that you read which contains this information?
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Gopal
8/19/2014 11:58:35 pm
Indians worship the sun and Greeks did the same.
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jay3kn
4/26/2015 01:27:57 am
No, the Greeks didn't worship the sun. -.-
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Manny K
7/2/2018 07:09:35 am
Isn’t Apollo the Sun God?
jay3kn
4/26/2015 01:26:44 am
Greece invented everything and India borrowed things. There is no simultaneous influence.
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10/17/2015 05:50:03 am
Greeks are great at copying others.
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Manik Ghoshal
5/15/2017 05:47:05 pm
Indians invented the Zero and the 1-10, 11-19, 21-30 etc decimal system. I wonder how thew greek would have written 1 billion in their numerals. Coils someone tell me please.
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Johan
5/29/2017 11:18:18 am
Dude indians did not invent zero thats pure bullshit. Can you give an explanation why mathematica(μαθηματικα) or geometry(Γεωμετρια) have an exactly similar word in greek that have an actual meaning? only in greek you can understand what for example geometry(Γεω-earth and Μετραω-calculate) used from greeks to portate that they draw shapes in the sand to calculate and solve their problems. How about the triangle? Comes from greek τριγωνο(means τρι -3 angles γωνιες)? How about the entire planet uses greek letter π you know for π = 3,14..... Ever wondered why ? FOOD FOR THOUGHt
Manik Ghoshal
5/29/2017 01:52:25 pm
Tell me how the Greek wrote ten, hundred, thousand, ten thousand, hundred thousand, million, ten million, hundred million, etc. Do you know the answer Johan. L, C, X, etc?
R Leakey
12/21/2017 03:20:04 pm
Don't be Jerk, look at the history of both countries. Indian civilization emerged 7K years ago, and still continue. Look mathematical tradition in India, From Vedic age to modern age India has mathematical continuity. But in contrast, Greek civilization emerged 6th century BC and collapsed by the 3rd century AD. Since then no any remarkable breakthrough in any field of knowledge.
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Kris
12/25/2017 08:10:16 pm
I think there are only two living cultures and civilizations that remain through millennia, one is Indian and the other is Chinese. The other ancient civilizations could not survive through time for very many reasons. Imagine a person who lived 3000 to 300 BCE and coming back to life now in Egypt, Greece or Mesopotamia cannot find similar cultures any more whereas an Indian coming to life now from that era can see many similarities in rural India. Unless the culture has strong routes, it cannot survive this long.
Dr Nat Khublall
1/11/2018 02:46:39 pm
I agree with R. Leaky that Indian civilisation was 7,000 years ago much earlier than that in Greece. India had established universities as early as the 5th century BC and Greek scholars were known to have travelled to India to study at Ancient Indian universities. Pythagoras acquired his knowledge in India for his famous theorem.
Vinay Seth
4/4/2018 04:40:50 pm
Well, I beg to differ with you on that one. Indians never really continued their discoveries in Mathematics. The last big peak died out with the Kerala school of astronomy in the 14th century.
Richard Long
9/18/2019 01:41:18 am
Indian civilization and Western civilization rose and fell just the same, over and over again, with different periods of Renaissance in different areas.
Arjun
4/19/2020 02:43:37 pm
Ever heard about minoans, they flourished from 3000 bc to 1200bc, and then myceaneans, then dorians, then greeks [hellenics]. Western Civilization is way oder than you think it is, the mediteranian sea was the cradle of civilization, and there are older ones, way older than IVC but are still in the process of being excavated and analyzed!
Dr Nat
5/17/2018 05:03:52 pm
Many famous Greek philosophers acquired their knowledge from ancient Indian universities when no other country had universities.
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Abhimanyu Alexander
5/24/2015 08:12:05 pm
Folks need to study history instead of offering their knee-jerk comments.
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JOHAN MATTAS
5/29/2017 11:27:43 am
man you really luck of history knowledge but please answer me this.. Why mathematics and geometry have an actual meaning only in greek? What about the triangle? Its used to portrate the greek word τριγωνο which means( τρι(3) γωνιες(angles)). How about Drama, Poetry,Philoshophy,Physics,Democrasy,and counteless other words have meaning only in greek language? And lastly how come indians invented 0 1, 2,3 and others and greeks by the time had built the first computer ever called Antikythira Mechanism? How could they build a pc without the knowledge of zero?And they did that whilst indians were on the caves searching for food? How come greeks firstly calculated the distance between planets and how they move? How come again Astronomy has meaning only in greek αστρονομια and means αστρο(stars) and νομοι(laws) all together means the law of stars? FOOD FOR THOUGHT
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Chith
9/5/2017 04:29:06 am
India is more than 15000 years old civilization. Europe believed in Church and the Bible. As per the Bible world came into existence around 5000 years ago. So English could not think beyond 5000 years and fitted the Indian history in that framework. See who wrote Indian history ? Not even a single Indian was allowed to do that till recent years. Indian history depend on a book written by a man who never visited India in his entire life. Even an average westerner cannot comprehend India's deep philosophy and its meaning. Pythagoras theorem was in India 1000 years before Pythagoras. All the geometric figures have Indian names such as Trikona for triangle. Gola for circle, Varg for square, Andakrathi for oval, thara for Star shape and it goes on and on. I wonder why you imagine that one can find science in Greek only. The first treatment method in the whole world was Ayurveda , a part of Indian vedic literature. All realms of science is covered by India , even inter galactic flights. Indian scientists were sages with extra sensory wisdom. With that they calculated distance between stars and shape of astral bodies (Khagola sastra). Indians knew speed of light and value of Pi and Indian music is composed in a way that it directly affects the body and mind of the listener.It is so vast that western music has to work thousands of years to compete with it. You should understand that India was there 15000 years before and it still exists. This itself is the proof to its inbuilt intelligence to survive any kind of circumstances..
Abhinav Singhal
2/17/2018 06:09:46 am
You are getting it all wrong!!! Indians used to speak in sanskrit. Mathematics was called ganita in sanskrit. Astronomy was called bhugolvidya. Indians didn't use these Greek names for Maths and Astronomy. Just because we call them By their Greek names now doesn't mean they make sense only in greek,This is the worst possible logic I ever found.Our names were different for maths, physics, biology, astronomy were in a different language.What were you even thinking while typing this point ??? We still call these subjects by their Indian names in India. Triangle is called trikon in sanskrit whuch means three corners. Doesn't this make sense?? Now!! The invention of zero is widely credited to India. The first computer you are mentioning was an astromical device. This device is still being interpreted and many doubt whether it is just a hoax. Astronomical computers don't need any use of zero. The entire world practiced astronomy without the knowledge of zero. Zero was mentioned as symbol by Egyptians and mesopotamians. But the Indians were the first to use it as a number. Many famous scientists have widely accepted this fact. Just check it!! And, it was not a PC!!! If you really want to talk about conspiracy theories, then I too have many regarding Indian civilization. So let us just stick to facts. And Indians were in the caves searching for food !!!! what ??? Have you ever heard about Indus valley civilization?? It was the first urban civilization and recent excavations have pushed the dates back to thousands of years. It was an urban centre of life while greeks and the west was living in caves and searching for food!!! Atleast search for proper facts before typing. When Greece emerged in the 6th century BC, India was already a well developed and civilised land. There was large kingdoms ruling India. There are records of wars being fought amongst Indians in 1500 BC. The Persians , our direct neighbours viewed us as extremely developed and civilised land. If you read Persian history, you will realise that they considered India to be unconquerable!!! And the greeks too were not able to conquer India. Alexander's invasion of India failed. Seleucus Nicator was defeated by Mauryans. Further attempts to invade India too didn't materialise for the Greeks as they constantly lost battles against the Indians. Indian astronomy is thousands of years old. Indians knew about planetary motions and even calculated distance between planets , distance between Earth and the Sun etc. The circumference of Earth is also calculated along with many other calculations. Greeks were not the first to do so!!! The Indus valley had calibrated scales for measurments, weighing scales etc. Vedas mention about accurate astronomy. Many sanskrit texts predate Greeks by centuries on astronomy. Indians knew about pie science time immemorial. Aryabhatta calculated values of pi. Indians developed infinite series for pie. They also developed infinite series for trignometric variables. The movement of planets is well known to Indians. Indians even now can predict eclipses and other cosmological events without any declaration from NASA or ISRO. They predicted these things beforehand. Much like what that antikythera mechanism did. There is a book called agastya samhita that mentions about an electric cell. You can check about this. There are references to the speed of light known to the Indians as well. This can also be easily verified. Indian civilization is thousands of years old. recent excavations reveal urban cities dated as old as 9500 before the birth of christ. A civilization so old and so developed as the Indus valley civilization will affect the future civilizations and not get affected by them. Still, there is profound greek influence on India. Same is the case with greeks. They had considerable Indian influence. This was a two way thing. But, the ones who already existed for centuries will affect the later ones more. That's what happened. This is pretty normal. This does not take the credit away from the greeks who were also a great civilization.
R LEAKEY
3/31/2018 05:02:41 pm
@JOHAN MATTAS
Dr Nat Khublall
5/3/2018 08:01:24 pm
Johan Mattas lacks knowledge of ancient Indian civilisation which is the oldest in the whole wide world. Most of what Johan Mattas has written is trash, I regret to say. What he says about Indians in these words "And they did that whilst indians were on the caves searching for food? apply to Europeans, not Indians. For over 2000 years India was the richest country in the world, save for a short period when India was overtaken by China. I would refer him to the writings of the late Prof Dr Angus Maddison, a European, who carried out research for some 2,000 years. Further< there is a book by Edward Pococke "India in Greece..." published in 1852 in which the author claims that India had a colony in Greece.
Kiran Bhoite
4/3/2019 03:08:49 am
A Sloka in the 10th book of Rig Veda appears to be written for praising Lord Indra. The technical translation of that Sloka gives the value of Pi up to 28 digits accurately. It is not until the invention of the computers that the western mathematicians could get this value up to 16 digits accurately. Here is a test for those who think that a computer can do any calculation. Use the fastest computer available to you and write a program to calculate the value of Pi up to 28 digits accurately. You will know how difficult it is.
Manik
9/5/2017 07:12:51 am
Very informative post Abhimanyu. Thanks for posting it. Your name is very interesting too- the combination of two great personalities, one from the East and one from the West. 👍🏼👍🏼
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Sachin
1/13/2018 02:33:20 am
Who is Dyaous? Never heard of him. Zeus is inspired from Indra, the king of Devtas. Both have command over skies. Indra has a weapon called Vajra, which acts like a lightening bolt. Zeus has a lightening bolt and he is the king of gods in Greek mythology. But Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma have no parallel in Greek mythology. Comparing Shiva with Dynosius is like comparing a Ferrari with a bicycle.
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Vinay Seth
4/4/2018 04:51:25 pm
'Thus Shiva was identified as 'Dionysos', and Hare Krishna as ' Hercules'' - That's the first time I'm hearing of that connection. Could you please provide the source of your knowledge? Link/ Book please?
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Kalpathy Balan
6/14/2018 06:18:35 am
No one supposes any longer that Sanskrit was the common source of Greek, Latin, and Anglo-Saxon. This used to be said, but it has long been shown that Sanskrit is only a collateral branch of the same stem from which spring Greek, Latin, and Anglo-Saxon; and not only these, but all the Teutonic, all the Celtic, all the Slavonic languages, nay, the languages of Persia and Armenia also.
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Dr Shailesh G
12/3/2015 05:23:14 pm
I hope you and your compatriots come with more honest and revealing acknowledgements, Sure if you KNOW, the basis of this similarity. Although we still haven't got all similarities on board here. Can we have 'em please? I'd love to know more. Thx.
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Vinod C
11/27/2016 11:36:48 am
Worthwhile to read India in Greece by E.Pococke
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HistoryLover
2/5/2017 04:36:46 pm
Vinod C,
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Manik Ghoshal
5/15/2017 06:00:35 pm
I invite everyone to read my blog on Amazon.com. Buddhism spread to Syria, Macedonia, and Egypt in 250 BC during the reign of Ashoka the Great, emperor of South Asia. In fact it may have travelled in 350 BC with Alexander. There is the mention of an Indian monk called 'Kaalu' who was taken by the Greeks to the Middle East/ Europe. They were generally called Gymnosophists. Now, these guys were taken to teach Indian religion and philosophy and not to learn Greek philosophy.
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Dr.Chith
9/5/2017 04:34:37 am
India is more than 15000 years old civilization. Europe believed in Church and the Bible. As per the Bible world came into existence around 5000 years ago. So English could not think beyond 5000 years and fitted the Indian history in that framework. See who wrote Indian history ? Not even a single Indian was allowed to do that till recent years. Indian history depend heavily on a book written by a man who never visited India in his entire life. Even an average westerner cannot comprehend India's deep philosophy and its meaning. Pythagoras theorem was in India 1000 years before Pythagoras. All the geometric figures have Indian Sanskrit names such as Trikona for triangle. Gola for circle, Varg for square, Andakrathi for oval, thara for Star shape and it goes on and on. I wonder why one imagine that one can find science in Greek only. The first treatment method in the whole world was Ayurveda , a part of Indian vedic literature. All realms of science is covered by India , even inter galactic flights. Indian scientists were sages with extra sensory wisdom. With that they calculated distance between stars and shape of astral bodies (Khagola sastra). Indians knew speed of light and value of Pi and Indian music is composed in a way that it directly affects the body and mind of the listener.It is so vast that western music has to work thousands of years to compete with it. Indians knew the life time of this universe and how to live a life in harmony with it. Only India knows what lies after death and what happens after death.. The inventions made by Ramanuja , a mathematical giant of India, could not be understood even by Einstein. ONly today its been found out that his equations prove some complicated theories about black holes.You should understand that India was there 15000 years before and it still exists. This itself is the proof to its inbuilt intelligence to survive any kind of circumstances.
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Reply
11/4/2017 10:16:59 am
15000 years? Sorry, The first 'civilisation in India was the Indus Valley Civilisation (IVC) or Harappan Civilisation, a Bronze Age civilisation (3300–1300 BCE; mature period 2600–1900 BCE) mainly in the northwestern regions of South Asia, extending from what today is northeast Afghanistan to Pakistan and northwest India. In Greece around the same time - Minoan and Helladic Civilisations around 3650/3200-1170/1050 BCE.
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Manik Ghoshal
11/6/2017 04:57:41 pm
Have you heard of the ICE AGE? (35,000- 10’000 years ago?) So where do you think the Europeans appeared from? I believe they went from West India/ Sindhu-Saraswati River Valley. Read about Mehergarh from Sindhu (Indus) River valley- they were doing root-canal treatment 8000-10,000 years ago. That’s the period the Sanskrit Vedas were written. The Harrapan civilisation on the banks of Saraswati ended in 2000 BC when the River changed course and dried up.
Manik Ghoshal
12/22/2017 01:59:42 am
All skeptics about the antiquity of Indian Sciebtific wisdom, and superiority of the people of India (Douth Asian region) must google search Mehergarh- an ancient archeological sight of the IVC. Root- Canal treatment were done nearly 10,000 years ago. Show me any other Civilisation where this was done. The archaeologists were experts from France.
Manik Ghoshal
9/5/2017 05:52:37 am
The world not only got an injection of Indian philosophy but Christianity is pure Indian religion according to me.
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Manik Ghoshal
9/5/2017 06:06:15 am
More over, entering 'The Kingdom of God' is to achieve Moksha of the Indian philosophy. It means deathlessness of the soul after death by coming out of the endless cycle of birth and rebirth. The criteria preached by Buddhist monks, Jesus, John the Washer, Paul, etc, are exactly the same as preached by Buddha and many other Indian sages - by getting rid of greed, anger, jealousy, revenge, attachment, riches and luxury, etc. These ideas were alien to Judaism which was much more materialistic where as Early Christianity was monastic and required renunciation (and celibacy for the monks).
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Manik Ghoshal
11/6/2017 04:58:33 pm
Have you heard of the ICE AGE? (35,000- 10’000 years ago?) So where do you think the Europeans appeared from? I believe they went from West India/ Sindhu-Saraswati River Valley. Read about Mehergarh from Sindhu (Indus) River valley- they were doing root-canal treatment 8000-10,000 years ago. That’s the period the Sanskrit Vedas were written. The Harrapan civilisation on the banks of Saraswati ended in 2000 BC when the River changed course and dried up.
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Kalpathy
6/14/2018 06:38:27 am
No one supposes any longer that Sanskrit was the common source of Greek, Latin, and Anglo-Saxon. This used to be said, but it has long been shown that Sanskrit is only a collateral branch of the same stem from which spring Greek, Latin, and Anglo-Saxon; and not only these, but all the Teutonic, all the Celtic, all the Slavonic languages, nay, the languages of Persia and Armenia also.
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Raman Sehgal
6/21/2018 06:26:22 am
As per American Mathematician scholar Seidenberg - Algebra and Geometry originated from Vedic Rituals - Sulba Sutras and then it went to Babylonia - Greece.
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Alistair
3/13/2019 10:23:52 am
It’s worth mentioning that although there may not be an appropriate place for Siva in the Greek pantheon, the iconic image of the ecstatic dancing shiva, or Nataraj, which symbolizes the unending cycle of destruction/death and creation/rebirth is clearly a mnemonic device to communicate much of the same concept put forth by Pythagoras’ contemporary, Heraclitus, that everything is in flux and the only constant is change.
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Hindu priest here. Not much to add to the extensive comments here, and I doubt anyone will get down on the page far enough to read this, but I have recently been studying Greek philosophy (Pre-Socratic and Hellenistic) and I am shocked by the similarities.
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Edward. Thanks for your thoughtful response (and the others above). Regarding the Stoics, I’ve had the same impression but it sounds as though you’ve read the Stoics recently. Could you give particular examples of the similarities between the ideas of the Stoics and the Bhavaghad Gita?
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Take a look at the Vedic Theory chapter in the free ebook Soul Theory at https://theoryofsouls.wordpress.com/
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