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Did Giovanni Verrazano Visit the Newport Tower?

7/19/2013

56 Comments

 
One of the downsides of researching alternative history is that it really messes up my Amazon.com book recommendations. Every day the retailer tries to get me to buy more zany books on implausible topics. Today, Amazon told me that I need to buy Steven Sora’s The Lost Colony of the Templars: Verrazano’s Secret Mission in America (2004). Part of the Sinclair-Templar-America brand of historical mystery-mongering, this book is based on even flimsier evidence than the Sinclair claims to America.

The evidence takes primarily two forms. First, the author argues that the Knights Templar were responsible for spreading octagonal baptisteries throughout Europe as symbols of a death and rebirth cult; therefore, the Newport Tower was not a windmill but rather a baptistery. The Newport Tower, of course, is round and not octagonal, but that’s OK because the actual ancient mystery, as deduced from Stonehenge (!), is of an octagon inscribed within a circle, so the Tower’s eight irregularly-spaced pillars therefore stand for the octagon within its circular footprint.

But that doesn’t do much for Verrazano, does it? Here’s what Sora claims: “The Tower’s placement on Verrazano’s Map as well as its designation of the area as Refugio leaves no doubt. The Templars intended and most likely founded a colony, however short-lived.”

On his end, Giovanni Verrazano allegedly displayed the Newport Tower on his map of 1529, at least according to alternative historians like Steven Sora. According to these historians, Verrazano called the Tower the “Place of Refuge” because it was the land to which the Templars had fled in their imaginary eighteen galleys following the suppression of their order. As you will recall, those eighteen galleys are known only from the testimony extracted under torture from a Templar who lied about everything we can check against historical records. Thus, Verrazano spent weeks exploring the lost colony of the Templar knights, eventually finding the Newport Tower, which he called the Norman Villa after its medieval architecture.

Is this really the case?

Do you even have to ask?

As documented here, in the map of 1527 drawn by Vesconte de Magiollo, there are two names listed that allegedly tie to the Newport Tower: “Refugio” and “Norman Villa.” Six place names separate the two along the coast of the Long Island Sound, indicating that the two are not connected. Verrazano’s letter to the King of France indicates that Norman Villa was not Newport but rather near New York Bay. “Villa” was not a house or structure, but a poor Italian transliteration of the French ville, or village.

In a map of 1529 by Giovanni's brother Girolamo Verrazano, Verrazano listed a “B. del Refugio,” and his letter makes plain that Refugio is not a specific territory but rather the entirety of Narragansett Bay. Here’s the relevant text, as translated by Susan Tarrow, with Verrazano’s original footnote in brackets: “The harbor mouth [GV footnote: which we called ‘refugio’ because of its beauty] faces south, and is half a league wide; from its entrance it extends for 12 leagues in a northeasterly direction, and then widens out to form a large bay of about 20 leagues in circumference.”

Sora is correct that Verrazano spent two weeks (fifteen days, precisely) exploring the area, but the only round buildings he recorded seeing were wigwams. He could, of course, have been lying to the King of France, but since the only primary sources tell a completely different tale from the Sinclair-Templar conspiracy theorists, I don’t see that there’s any reason to rewrite history to provide additional fictional evidence for Sinclair-Templar voyages that have no documentation.

56 Comments
Gunn
7/19/2013 05:09:49 am

Narragansett Bay? Hhmmm, it seems oddly coincidental that we have these two mysteries so close together, geographically. The rock with the hooked X, and the tower.

I wonder how much of the "Templar treasure" was actually recovered by King Philip the Fair?

And I wonder when corn was first imported into NW Europe (as depicted within Roslyn Chapel, built in the mid-1400's).

Myths, or grains of truth?

It's a good thing that the Newport Tower can't be squirreled away into a dark corner of a State Museum...since it must be a fake, right?

On the other hand, maybe folks visiting the tower are seeing the most amazing (medieval) structure on American soil.

There's still much to learn about the Newport Tower, about that large rock that was taken and returned, and yes, about those Maine runestones, and the KRS. The final verdicts are not in about these national treasures...or at least, potential national treasures.

For whitey? No, for history truth.

Reply
Only Me
7/19/2013 06:59:55 am

Gunn, the proximity of the Newport Tower to the NRS is undoubtedly coincidental. The tower was built in the 17th century; the NRS....?

As to Templar "treasure", that's a rumor that has persisted for centuries, and more fitting to an Indiana Jones style movie. Most of the order's assets were tied up in land, business and a standing army. Following its disbandment, most members and all of its property were absorbed by the Hospitallers, effectively merging the two. This was done because of two centuries of Templar presence that became an integral part of society.

In answer to your question about corn, it was introduced to Europe in the late 15th to early 16th centuries. Why its depiction in Roslyn Chapel is so significant....you tell me.

The tower itself is most definitely not fake. Why is it so hard to accept that it's nothing more than a common windmill? What exactly, is so special about it? I ask because I sincerely want to know.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
7/19/2013 07:08:26 am

It's only maize if you squint really hard. The carvings are generic stylized plant carvings, usually considered to be strawberries, lilies, or some such. Christopher Knight decided they were maize (corn), and thus a new conspiracy was born.

Steve St Clair link
7/19/2013 04:55:44 pm

"Only Me" perhaps you could perform the very rare occurrence on these blog comments and quote a source? You say corn was in Europe as early as the 15th century. Could you perhaps quote a source for that statement? Someone who knows more about the dispersion of corn than yourself?

Steve

Steve St Clair link
7/19/2013 05:03:23 pm

"Only Me,"
You posted - "the proximity of the Newport Tower to the NRS is undoubtedly coincidental."

Thanks for your opinion.

Then you posted, "Why is it so hard to accept that it's nothing more than a common windmill? What exactly, is so special about it? I ask because I sincerely want to know."

Reeeeallly? You 'sincerely want to know'? I doubt that. It's more likely that you've already hardened your opinion and are here to have a little fun picking a fight. That's the environment our friend Jason and Crabby have created so successfully.

But just to play along with your 'sincere' question...
I can give you two reasons -

1 - The torque created by a windmill would have been too much for a windmill.
2 - There are astronomical alignments in the Newport Tower; more than one. I don't know of any other windmills that have astronomical alignments.
3 - Windmills of the time that skeptics propose were generally made of wood.

Tara Jordan
7/19/2013 07:48:04 pm

"Windmills of the time that skeptics propose were generally made of wood".
Another demonstration of Steve St Clair`s blatant ignorance, sophism & pedantry.
The use of stone & wood as structural construction elements in Windmills, has nothing to do with "time",architectural evolution or technological development, but with local resources available to the people who build the structures.If stone was available, they`d used it since it is more resistant to weather conditions & local environments.

The famous Régusse Windmills in France (built between the end of the 11th century & early 12th century) are stone structures.Most of early windmills in France & Spain were made out of stones.Originally The world's oldest windmills (asiab-e badi) were mud-brick structures erected in eastern Iran and western Afghanistan to harness wind power to move the runner stone of a mill to grind flour.
Sources:
Wulff, Hans. 1966. The Traditional Crafts of Persia. Cambridge: Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 284-289)
"Asiabha-ye Baadi-e Nashtifun." Iranshahr Encyclopedia of Iranian Architectural History.

Coridan Miller
7/19/2013 10:45:33 pm

Steve, everything has an astronomical alignment, there is something in every direction. You may as well say its east side faces the rising sun.

Only Me
7/20/2013 07:48:09 am

Steve, I'll be glad to provide my source: Wikipedia. Before you dismiss this as poor research or the use of a suspect source, I looked because I wanted to know what was the significance of the "corn" depiction in Rosslyn Chapel Gunn mentioned. I don't think basic facts should require a prolonged search through multiple sources.

Your welcome for the statement of my opinion. However, since the NRS has yet to be accurately dated, in comparison to the known construction date of the Newport Tower, again, their proximity is still coincidental at this time.

I could seriously care less whether you doubt my sincerity or not, since it was Gunn, not you, I was addressing. I'm not here to pick a fight, regardless of the environment you believe to exist, or who's responsible for it. It's also not my opinion, hardened or not, as to the purpose of the tower. The facts say that it was a windmill, and it falls to you/Wolter/anyone else to prove otherwise.

If torque is the main factor behind determining if the tower was, indeed, a windmill, then why were other windmills throughout the colonies also built with stone? Wouldn't stone be a superior material to wood for construction purposes, given its inherent strength? Another poster has pointed out the Newport Tower's multiple columns and arches would most likely give it a structural integrity not inherent with wooden structures.

Christopher Randolph
7/21/2013 07:03:17 pm

"You may as well say its east side faces the rising sun."

... except that this windmill doesn't even do a good job of that!

As reviewed in the marathon thread on this blog on what the USGS calls "Old Stone Mill," the windmill is west of higher ground directly to its east on the island.

spookyparadigm
7/19/2013 03:13:40 pm

Just a reminder, re: the Round Tower, in addition to its architectural similarity to known contemporary windmills, it has been archaeologically excavated specifically because of the stories surrounding it. The following is a journal article, but it is the subject of a full thesis as well.

Godfrey, William S., Jr.
1951 The Archaeology of the Old Stone Mill in Newport, Rhode Island. American Antiquity 17(2):120-129

Reply
Varika
7/20/2013 12:35:43 pm

It's not oddly coincidental at all. EVEN IF one accepted this "rock with a hooked X" as genuine (which I do not, but for argument's sake), the Narragansett Bay is a safe sheltered waterway that is ideal for people who sail. We in the modern world don't seem to grasp how important local geography was to people much more at the mercy of the elements than we think ourselves to be. We know for certain it was considered a desirable place to park a boat, as quoted in Jason's own article. Therefore, it is a logical spot for more than one group of sailors to go ashore, leading to entirely coincidental overlaps of artifacts.

Again, that assumes that this "rock" is genuine and not a later fraud. If it's a later fraud, then there is no coincidence to even be remarked upon, because only one of the artifacts--the windmill--is genuine. As a windmill from the 1700s, not as a pre-Columbian European artifact. Not medieval at all, and not a fake, but a stubbornly deliberate misinterpretation of historical fact.

Also, Steve:

1. I would like to see your physics backing this claim, and I would like to see if you are applying them to the current ruins or if you would be applying them to the building in good repair. To be frankly honest, most ruins, in their ruined state, can't support what they did when they were in good repair.
2. Firstly, just because you don't know of a thing doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and secondly, of the purported "astronomical alignments" I have seen claimed, when placed beside known actual astronomically-designed structures, most of the ones claimed for the Newport Tower seem particularly contrived and difficult. And, as has been stated before, there are astronomical alignments in my own home; my parents' bedroom window, for instance, lets in the sun at dawn! The sunset turns our white front door red! The moon rises between two trees visible from the second floor window! None of these things were designed into the house as deliberate alignments, they just happened.
3. "Generally" made of wood because wood was readily available. That hardly means "exclusively."

Reply
Tara Jordan
7/20/2013 01:14:09 pm

The so called "astronomical alignments" are in only St Clair`s head.There is a rational & utilitarian explanation for the openings in the structure.In the following paper,The medieval scholar Robert Philippe tells you everything about windmills:Persée scientific journals: Les premiers moulins à vent http://tinyurl.com/mc6gn4t

Steve St Clair link
7/20/2013 03:21:02 pm

Gunn,

Here's Barstad's web page about alignments in the tower.

Steve

Reply
Gunn
7/22/2013 05:03:06 am

Thanks. Yes, the sophistication itself explains that it is not a windmill, along with its location. Did Opher say the land elevation was higher nearby? It seems that the ocean views were more important than catching the best wind.

Why all the bells and whistles, if a common-purpose wind turbine? Plus, round structures are unendingly more difficult to construct than square or rectangular ones. In that location, that long ago, it wouldn't make sense to construct such an elaborate building for such a mundane purpose.

It is very presumptuous for someone here to say "the facts" declare the Newport Tower to be a colonial windmill. This person might make a good State Museum Director.

Christopher Randolph
7/22/2013 07:05:03 am

"the sophistication itself "

Sophistication? It's a sloppy oval. We already hashed all of this out on the previous windmill threads. A group of unsupervised Boy Scouts could make a better regular shape than an 18 ft diameter circle that goes 1-2 ft out of whack... provided an accurate geometric shape is at all important. It wouldn't be overly important for a windmill.

The claim is that the windmill was some sort of camera obscura. The negates any kind of ocean "views" meaning anything. Beyond this no one in the era doing astronomical observation stuck a 'tower' at low ground, or where higher ground would wipe out views of first light. Why build a 'tower' to gain height but not enough to compensate for the terrain? Why not build the 'tower' (or did a pit, which is what for example Brahe actually did) at higher ground?

Makes. No. Sense.

As far as the windmill being 'before the colonial era,' this also makes no sense even internally/semantically. You're claiming it was an artifact of a European colony.

Coridan
7/19/2013 11:26:37 am

I still have doubts that Verazanno even made it as far north as Staten Island

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charlie
7/19/2013 11:49:53 am

conspiracies beget further conspiracies, and so on and so on, seemingly ad infinitum.
Then again, maybe it is just my aged brain playing tricks on me.
Jason, I doff my hat to you sir. How you continue to wade through all the pseudo-history and twisting of ancient myths into some odd "new age" pseudo-religion is way beyond my patience. Many thanks to you and your efforts.

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Tara Jordan
7/19/2013 12:25:22 pm

Lunatics like Sheikh Antia Diop & John Henrik Clarke would likely both strongly disagree with the European diffusionist interpretation of American history.It is obvious that African explorers from Mali discovered America before Columbus,they built the Newport Tower(it`s architecture is reminiscent of Sosso kingdom style).Since these seafaring Africans rode canoes,the only way to get back East was to use the Gulf Stream, therefore African explorers ended up in Ireland. If you look at Irish DNA sequencing & genetic analyses,it is undeniable that Irish people are from African descent.....

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Bill
7/20/2013 02:43:41 am

So that's what my grandfather meant when he said some of our ancestors were black Irish. Thanks for clearing that up. It makes more sense than the accepted history.

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Tara Jordan
7/20/2013 03:34:28 am

Afrocentrism is fun :)

joe link
7/20/2013 06:44:57 am

for the comment saying that a structure like that can't support the torque of a windmill, here's one that does:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesterton_Windmill

it would make an interesting statics problem to figure out the max wind speed and torque that the building could support, but I would guess that unless the sails were made of modern materials the sails would break before the building. if the building had just 4 columns with no connecting arches, it would be easier to get the columns to buckle, but because there are 8 columns and they are connected by arches, each arch would behave as a short column and would be much harder to buckle.

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Steve St Clair link
7/20/2013 02:59:00 pm

Gunn,
Have you seen Jan Barstad's papers about the Newport Tower and the possibility of an ambulatory? I was at the NEARA meeting where she first unveiled this dig.

http://www.chronognostic.org/daily_logs.php?id=6

Steve

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Tara Jordan
7/20/2013 03:16:53 pm

Steve St clair,the personification of the Puer aeternus or geriatric troll.Regularly posts semi insane drivels & lunatic reinterpretations of history,yet the Provocateur never responds to critics.A case study in Peter Pan syndrome.Steve, It`s not to late to grown a spin.

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Steve St Clair link
7/20/2013 03:22:28 pm

Gunn,

Here is a web page Jan Barstad put up re: alignments in the Newport Tower -
http://www.chronognostic.org/over_touro_park.html

Steve

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Only Me
7/20/2013 06:03:54 pm

I apologize for the unrelated topic, Jason, but I have a serious question to pose to Steve.

Steve, Sinclair posted on March 14th, "Truth is the DNA of the Sinclair/St.Clair family is known and this Steve StClair simply does not belong to the family, but that won't stop him from telling you he belongs and of course knows all.....LMAO."

I know you "tend not to read much in these blog comments" because "very little of interest comes out", but is this true? You may have accused me of picking a fight and gave me the benefit of your doubt concerning my sincerity, but if this assertion is false, I can understand why you have such a sour attitude towards some that frequent this blog.

I'll man up and admit (to the chagrin of some, I'm sure) that when you had your exchange with Christopher over genealogy, I thought you acquitted yourself well. I have nothing personal against you; it's just your recent behavior that has left me scratching my head.

And yes, I would appreciate a civil response.

Steve St Clair link
7/21/2013 12:09:43 am

I never Hi Only Me. You posted, "I know you "tend not to read much in these blog comments" because "very little of interest comes out", but is this true?"

No, it's not true. It was posted by a man in Canada who has some very strange ideas about what he refers to as 'the one, true, noble line of Sinclairs.' I've proven there are many Sinclair / St Clair lineages. That same Sinclair from Canada has been kicked out of over 6 Internet groups now, including the Sinclair DNA study project, all for attempts to inflame with such statements.

Steve St Clair
7/21/2013 12:11:38 am

The first 2 words in above post are a typo.

Should have started with -

Hi Only Me. You posted, "I know you "tend not to read much in these blog comments" because "very little of interest comes out", but is this true?"

Gunn
7/22/2013 05:07:38 am

Thanks. The amount of factual information should overwhelm even the most ardent wind mill supporters.

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Tara Jordan
7/20/2013 06:30:21 pm

Only Me.

Her Majesty St Clair is not interested in honest debate.He merely whines about how we deal with Wolter,accuses us of malevolent behavior,starts flame wars & persecutes Jason for his alleged "fixation" on Scott the forensic gyneco-geologist.I am sorry to say but you are wasting your time with this simpleton.

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Only Me
7/20/2013 07:38:35 pm

Snark Level: EPIC

Dear God, Tara. The spit-take, the SPIT-TAKE! LOL

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Steve St Clair
7/21/2013 12:15:15 am

I'm just delighted that Tara has refrained form her usual use of the phrase "fecal sandwich." That was her favorite phrase there for a while.

You're showing signs of improvement, Tara.

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Keith
7/21/2013 08:44:18 am

Oh Steve, you try so hard.
I've started to notice a little pattern in your comments of late (since the topics of the blog posts tend to not longer be your ancestors and their possible discovery of America / relation to Christ).
You begin admirably enough, trying to tear down dissenting commenters point by point, and trying to engage in actual discussion (which is great, keep that up), but even then it is obvious you are gunning for negative responses.
You are trying to make people annoyed, because then you've "gotten under their skin" or whatever and it is a victory for you. You are trolling. But you aren't very good at it; because when your posts are met with a discussion of the facts and theories you presented instead of insults directed at you, you ignore them. Instead you turn your attention to people who you know are already combative and likely to insult you and keep playing your little game (like Tara here). She hasn't mentioned poop baguettes in a long time, but you really do love fixating on that.

Steve St Clair link
7/21/2013 11:11:19 am

That's lovely, Keith. Thanks so much for your observations about my personality.

You didn't ask any questions in your post above, but I'll respond as though some are.

First, I don't often attempt to 'engage in actual discussion' on Jason's blog. Those never go well for anyone who isn't part of his fan club. Instead, it becomes a pile on, peppered with vile from Tara. So thanks for the pep talk like, 'keep that up.' No thanks, Keith.

You mentioned 'when your posts are met with a discussion of the facts and theories' then I ignore them. Quite right, most of the time. You see, I can tell from the comments when someone has actually done enough reading to engage in a useful discussion.

Instead, many comments are like this one by Varika, '…there are astronomical alignments in my own home; my parents' bedroom window, for instance, lets in the sun at dawn!' Other comments quote a Wikipedia page. This means they haven't taken any time to do real research on the subject they're trashing. Getting involved in a lengthy back and forth about such comments is nothing but a time suck. My time is far more valuable than that.

Earlier I posted a comment about Jan Barstad's papers regarding the Newport Tower. I suspect this is research that hasn't been seen here. You failed to mention anything about that research Keith. In fact the entire group here ignored it. Why learn anything about the subject? It's so much more fun to simply join in the attack club here at Jason's party.

Getting 'under their skin' isn't my goal either, Keith. But thanks so much for that mind reading attempt. The goal is to call out inaccurate information amid all the other lovely posts about fecal sandwiches.

That said, if someone is being a complete jerk, then it's fun and useful to apply enough heat to cause them to crack.

You mentioned I 'turn [my] attention to people who [i] know are already combative and likely to insult [me].'

Slightly wrong.

They have ALREADY insulted me, and many, many others. And they're never so perfectly doing this with just facts, Keith. I turn my attention to people who are mean spirited, nasty, and vile in an ongoing way. They truly deserve to meet someone like me. Unlike the others who run away from such behavior, I'm happy to pop in from time to time and apply some heat.

The way I apply heat to Tara is to ignore her. She puts up her vile in hopes I'll post something nasty and I won't do it. Therefore, she keeps posting her vile, desperate for me to respond in her manner. She exposes herself for what she is, and in the process devalues her opinions when read by those sane people who show up here.

In the same manner, I got Crabby to admit he was absolutely jealous that Scott Wolter has the microphone in a sandbox Crabby considers his exclusively. It's that very anger that makes him behave like such a jerk to people like Gunn on this blog. And it's that anger that, when I apply heat to Crabby, makes him reveal his true nature to all the other sane people who wander into this blog.

The nature of the pile-on here against me is also instructive. Have you noticed how little real conversation happens here outside of the usual cast of characters? Why would that be?

Simple.

It's a hostile group. Those not 'of the cloth' are scared off by your happy group. Hostile and at times vile, mean spirited, and nasty. I'm happy to help expose it and many of the members here for what this and they are.

Gunn has done the same, but in a more civilized manner. What has that civility achieve for Gunn? It's just encouraged the pile-on to beat on him all the harder - gang behavior,really.

Keith, in your comment you seem to wish I'd play nicer. That, or just leave your happy group to itself.

But I think what I do here is useful.
It's good for everyone, even those to whom I apply the heat.

Keith
7/21/2013 03:27:17 pm

Oh Steve, you don't learn do you?
I get far more enjoyment out of riling you and Gunn up than you do getting annoyed at Tara and Christopher. It is great, look at the huge, defensive reaction I can get out of you without calling you "your majesty", or even mentioning anything relevant to any discussions going on here.

But you and Gunn will keep coming back, and you'll keep replying to me and my ilk. Heck, I remember Gunn getting all mad and saying he was never coming back to this blog ever again, and then a couple of days later he was back and upset as ever that nobody thought the KRS was real. So please, reply to this and explain why I am wrong. Make it a really big post, put lots of effort into it, that'll show me how little it bothers you.

Tara Jordan
7/21/2013 03:50:41 pm

Steve St Clair. Don't get me wrong,I am not debunking semi illiterate quacks like yourself,Wolter & the Bandwagon of lunatic "alternative researchers" for the sake of doing it.I am not claiming to be motivated by some higher noble intention.Jason does it from an educational perspective,I am doing it precisely because it hurts you psychologically.I also consider the fact of debunking & destroying your insanities to be an hygienic process.You have the right to be utterly ignorant & gullible,to a larger extent,the general population is dumb & undereducated as you people are, & truth to be told,society loves individuals like yourself.We rationalists are the minority, but it doesn't mean we have to stand & watch patiently while you are infecting minds & hearts.I always enjoy good arguments,intellectual challenges & I am not afraid to change my mind & revision my own understanding of history, but individuals like Wolter & yourself bring absolutely nothing to the table. The way I see it, you & your ilk are intellectual viruses.

Steve St Clair
7/21/2013 04:26:20 pm

Oh Keith, lovely as usual,

You posted, 'look at the huge, defensive reaction I can get out of you…'

But my answer to you wasn't defensive. It was instructive. Defensive means "Used or intended to defend or protect." I wasn't 'protecting' anything. It's amusing to me that you used that to flatter yourself.

Despite your interpretation of it as some sort of complement to your intelligence, it's quite different. What you gave me was an opportunity to explain my real motivations here - something I would have thought such high-minded individuals would have figured out long ago. Instead, you all fall for the bait again and again.

You posted, 'you'll keep replying to me and my ilk.' What exactly is your ilk, Keith? You are equating yourself with precisely which other blog participants on Jason's love fest?

If you look back, you'll see that I've ignored you as well. See -
http://www.jasoncolavito.com/1/post/2013/06/did-alan-butler-and-scott-wolters-wife-find-a-pagan-goddess-cult-active-among-american-farmers.html#comments
…as an example. Does that make you feel better?

And then you posted, ' I remember Gunn getting all mad and saying he was never coming back to this blog ever again…blah, blah, arrogant blah.'

Lovely. Okay. Now we're getting somewhere. Now you've corroborated my theory that blog commenters like yourself hope we'll just go away so you can continue your hate fest unabated. Right?

William Smith
7/21/2013 01:23:17 pm

Their is a triangle stone (builders mark) at the top of the Newport Tower. This stone is 14 degrees west of true north. The magnetic declination of The Newport Tower was 14 degrees in 1472. For photos and explanations for the alignments go to Migration and Diffusion on the web and look up papers by William Smith. An Engineers view of the Newport Tower. Many other mysterious items are very close to the Newport Tower other than the Narraggessit stone. You have the Dighton Rock and The Mystery stone of New Hampshire. also a bronze Portuguese canon and old salt pits were found south of the tower.

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Tara Jordan
7/21/2013 02:44:57 pm

Steve St Clair Aka "desperately seeking for my 15 minutes of fame through Jesus special bloodline".
Yes indeed, when one's own credibility becomes such an issue of embarrassment, looking like the victim becomes the diversion.
I`ll give you credit for one thing: The genius of marketing dysfunctional mediocrity.

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Only Me
7/21/2013 08:03:46 pm

Steve, as one of those who quoted a Wikipedia page, I took up your challenge and read Jan Barstad's study of alignments in the Newport Tower. It was interesting, but I have to disagree with the proposed date of construction. Here's why:

1) If the Norse in Vinland, the strongest candidates mentioned, built the tower, why wait to do so for 125 years after Lanse Aux Meadows was established? Why sail from Vinland to Narrangansett Bay just to build a tower aligned with the equinoxes, in order to know the best time to harvest, when there hasn't been any trace of a viable colony at the location, as far as I know? Seems like a waste of man hours and resources.

2) Yes, Governor Arnold and his contemporaries used wood for much of their construction, but to use this as the primary reason to argue against the tower being built by the colonists is disingenuous. There are countless remains of spring houses, root cellars, lye tables, property boundary walls and animal pens existing to this day that demonstrate the colonists did use stone for permanent building material.

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Steve St Clair
7/22/2013 02:28:28 am

Hi Only Me,

Good points. I also don't buy the calendar as the only use of the thing, but add to that the possibility of an ambulatory and you have a different importance altogether.

As usual, there isn't much real evidence. That said, there is an awful lot of circumstantial evidence. The fireplace in the wall comes to mind. I find it unlikely that a windmill used for grinding wouldn't -
a. Be on a hill. They would have more likely used the power of a stream.
b. Have a chimney in it. No one would make a spark in such a place.

There's more but I'm out of time today.

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Gunn
7/22/2013 05:36:03 am

I'm moving forward chronologically here after a few days away, and what do I find? More mischief by the usual suspects!

Sparks will fly, Steve, they have to here, any time someone challenges that the Newport Tower is earlier than the colonial period. Simply put, the tower doesn't fit in with established, so-called factual history, even though factual science shows that the structure is extremely elaborate, and not a common windmill. But the "usual group" here have purposeful blinders on when it comes to this. They want facts, then refuse to see them...then pick fights here, like colorful little cocky bantam roosters.

(Nothing sexist intended, Tara and Varika, its just that the roosters fight better, for illustrative purposes.)

Only Me
7/22/2013 07:12:41 am

Oh, how the mystery of the Newport Tower makes my head hurt. So far, it's been everything from an astrological calendar to a smokehouse. The list of suspects ranges from the Norse to the Portuguese. Only one glaring question has yet to be addressed.

IF the tower existed before the colony at Narragansett Bay was established, where are the papers, private and public, containing, in effect, "Arrived at the perfect spot today. This is where we will build our new home. Strangely enough, there is a tower of unknown origin already standing on a hill in this very spot! Damned if I know how it got here!"?

What about the Native Americans that were already present? I'm pretty sure they didn't stumble across the tower one day, looked at one another, and said "Hmmmmm." Then they walked away without a second thought?

Somebody, somewhere had to have taken note of such an obvious anachronistic anomaly.

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Gunn link
7/23/2013 06:38:19 am

"Obvious anachronistic anomaly."

Yeah, like with the MN & SD stoneholes, right? (Ding-dong...is this permissible?)

Maybe the Native Americans pictured it on birch-bark and it was destroyed.

Maybe Mr. Arnold didn't know where it came from, and like others (even today), presumed it was the leftovers from a wind turbine. Maybe he had his own reasons for not publicly questioning its presence. Maybe he did wonder about it, even publicly, but it was never written down. Maybe he wanted people to think he had built the grand structure. But I doubt it.

Some things go unexplained, for whatever reasons. History is lost. Expeditions are never heard about. Expeditions fail, and history is lost. But sometimes--once in a while--strange little puzzle pieces can attach and actually fit into the big picture.

See the Vikings near the St. Lawrence Seaway...when? 1,000 AD? Preposterous, but true. What else? What history got lost? What about the evasive, possible St. Clair connection to medieval America? How shall we ever recover this important history (Tara)? By trying....

No need to comment further to the "mean and nasty" group here, Steve, for they are self-identified as would-be history wreakers. Too-tight leather comes to mind...purposely wetted leather shorts, purposely worn out in the sun. Look, somebody needs to go on a diet!

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Tara Jordan
7/23/2013 08:16:10 am

Gunn.Despite our "differences" I like you.As I said before you are a decent man,& I am going to do my best to find out about your artifact.But with all due respect,no more chitchat about Steve St Clair.I now refuse to talk about someone who is so intellectually confused & mentally instable,that he is convinced to be actually related to Jesus Christ, & connected to a super secret renegade group of Knights Templar who allegedly traveled to America 100 years before Christopher Columbus.I am awaiting for Steve St Clair`s next episode in delusion of grandeur & goofy story telling.At best we might expect Steve to claim to be the second coming of Christ.At worst,that he was abducted by aliens & exposed to sexual experimentations.I almost feel sorry for the man,he is probably as old as my own father,yet he functions on the mental,emotional & intellectual level of a 15 yr old.Getting out of puberty has never been an option for Majestic Steve.But the story gets better courtesy of the feral forensic geologist Scott Wolter,because according to Wolter America happens to be a junkyard for Knights Templar artifacts & a gargantuan mass grave for Mesolithic giants from Atlantis.I am always willing to entertain myself by listening to the intellectually inferior kind,but from now,debating is out of the equation,There is a limit to self inflected mutilation, & my sarcasm is vindicated.

Gunn
7/23/2013 01:37:35 pm

Okay, sounds good. It's kind of fun getting you going, though. More fun than with Opher, for instance.

Steve really rings your bell for some reason, kind of like how Mr. Wolter's burgeoning success really rings Jason's bell. But I hope you realize that the bloodline of the St. Clairs/Sinclairs has been esteemed well before this blog...actually, for hundreds of years. Now we have a new Prince in England. Meanwhile, we're all eagerly still trying to find out if good ole Henry may have made it to America in time to see the Newport Tower completed.

Were all the "myths" of the Native Americans exhausted here on this blog, relating to the possibility of a nobleman's influence in Vinland? Probably not. Obviously, they know more than they're telling us...right? (Or, we don't believe them.)

Why do so many people think some of the plants depicted at Rosslyn Chapel are maize? It may be because they look like maize, just like the maize from Vinland.

Tara, from my point of view, Steve's fantasies are completely warranted, even aside from his DNA studies; but I'll stop trying to convince you of his inherent goodness as a St. Clair. You appear to be inconvincible.

Tara Jordan
7/23/2013 05:36:49 pm

Gunn,Steve is your friend, you stand by him & I respect that,but he is not my friend.He is public figure who puts himself at the center of a controversy,therefore I consider that we have the right to criticize him.I wouldn't mind having him around interacting with us but Steve doesn't want to interact or engage in a rational dialogue,he even admitted:"First, I don't often attempt to 'engage in actual discussion' on Jason's blog...".
Steve has a personal beef with Jason & that`s fine, but he crossed the line on many occasions.When Jason came under attack & was threatened with lawsuits by Wolter & Jason Martel,Steve explicitly expressed his satisfaction.Is this the behavior & attitude of someone "noble"?.I Personally don't think so.Steve often implies that I am one of Jason`s sycophants, anyone reading this blog cannot honestly accuse me of being a partisan since I have criticized Jason on many occasions & I`m not afraid to be extremely harsh on my fellow "skeptics",I know that Skeptics hate me as much as the people on the other side,& I wear it as a badge of honor. Wolter & St Clair cherry-pick the facts that they use to present their case and ignore anything that doesn't help the spin.They rely on forgeries,fakes & phony documents that have debunked many decades ago.These people who cannot stand to lose an argument and will twist their logic into a pretzel in order to prove the case.I often challenged them to provide me with one legitimate historical document that records or mentions a Knights Templar transatlantic journey to America,I am still waiting.The way I see it,for Wolter,it is about money & notoriety,St Clair is on an ego trip.I would never question your integrity & motivation,because it is obvious that you are not doing what you do for the money or for a 15 minutes of fame.

Steve St Clair
7/23/2013 06:02:53 pm

Hi Gunn,

Maybe you'll agree - I detect the signs of alcohol abuse in a particular fecal-prone person with whom you're having a comment exchange.

There may also be a need to consult a professional about bipolar disorder. For instance, she posted, 'Despite our "differences" I like you.'

Wowza. That has to worry you, Gunn. With her as a friend, who needs enemies?

Only Me
7/23/2013 06:28:50 pm

To Tara, Steve and Gunn,

Forgive me if I come across as presumptuous, but I'd like to ask everyone to ease up on the reins. It wasn't so long ago that an entire comment chain was removed due to the clash of personalities. I don't want anyone's contributions to this blog to fall before the power of the delete key, or feel that their freedom of expression was stomped on because of it.

Let's step back and allow the passion to cool a bit, please?

Tara Jordan
7/23/2013 07:19:28 pm


I am not clashing with Gunn,We`re having a civil conversation.Please notice,I am not even responding to the Muppet pretending to be Steve St Clair (he is not ST Clair). I mentioned "fecal sandwiches" once,& that turned him on.This idiot has the psychological profile of someone who goes on Ebay purchasing teenager`s dirty underwear.

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Gunn
7/24/2013 09:19:34 am

Tara, I don't mind moving the conversation forward, perhaps towards a re-visited area for a closer look, as you said to Steve "...find me one historical document that mentions or records a Knight Templar`s transatlantic journey to America."

It is thought that there are no such documents, however, I would like to re-introduce a stone document...no, not the KRS. If a carving in stone can be considered a document, such as alphabetical letters on a stone tablet can be considered a document (the KRS for example), then a clue to mid-Fourteenth exploration can be found within the Westford Knight carving, a time-frame not distant at all from the Knights Templar. Even if nothing except the sword handle is readily seen, it means something. This is a portion from Wikipedia, which I'm using for convenience, not that I'm fond of the sight:

"The carving was subsequently identified as a broken Norse Sword by William Goodwin in his book on the America's Stonehenge site.[4] Frank Glynn, president of the Connecticut Archaeological Society, re-located the carving and following discussions with Thomas Charles Lethbridge over Goodwin's theory, chalked in a full figure in 1954, resembling a Medieval knight, with a sword and shield, and he is usually said to be the "discoverer of the Westford Knight." [5] It was Lethbridge who suggested to Glynn that the sword was not of Viking origin, but was "a hand-and-a-half wheel pommel sword" common in 14th century North Britain.[6]"

I went to see the site for myself last year. The sword handle is clearly "punched", most likely by iron, pretty much unavailable to Native Americans. The style of sword handle indicates that it could have been carried by Sir James Gunn, as the story goes. So, the Sinclair story may be true.

I'm still very curious about why the Chippewa tradition says they began migrating from the East Coast to "not far from the KRS site" around the same time-frame as the East Coast Native American legends concerning Glooscap. How is it that they were told to stop where food grows on water (wild rice) as part of the warning to move? How did Europeans know about wild rice in this MN region? Well, maybe it had something to do with Europeans placing the KRS a mere one generation before the Sinclair legends. First, the placing of the KRS, with knowledge of wild rice, then the warning a generation later to begin moving inland.

Why are Native Americans telling us stories--from both ends of the saga, geographically--that seem to actually tie together? Could there really be something to these Native American "myths". Are we insulting them for not believing them about this? Or is whitey over-concerned over nothing?

I realize the Zeno Narratives are most likely bogus, but some of this other stuff seems to add up to an indication of pre-Columbus activity. Suppressing artifacts from public view doesn't help the situation. Government officials cannot be trusted because they have an agenda. Meanwhile, we miss out on history.

I think they should start looking for the bones of Sir James Gunn, probably not far from the broken sword indicated on the Sinclair Rock. (Alternative name for the Westford Knight.)

Purposely not conducting professional archaeological digs is not the way to go. We want more information, not less.

At least Scott Wolter is looking, and not from an armchair. He brings hope where there is no hope. Aside from the sacred feminine and bloodline stuff, he is trying. Mixing these with alternative history doesn't seem to work very well. It's like Jason mixing American history with Alien Crap, it doesn't seem to work very well. Just my view. I think he should abandon the Alien Crap and focus on history, where there is at least a basis for belief. Alien Crap is kid stuff, nothing but a purposeful illusion, and a waste of time. History matters, and history truth matters even more.

Tara Jordan
7/24/2013 01:22:53 pm

Gunn.Trust me on this one, I am way too arrogant & independent minded to cover for the "system".If I ever find something interesting,I`ll let you know.

Tara Jordan
7/22/2013 04:50:07 pm

Gunn,
"established, so-called factual history..." as opposed to the fringe establishment of alternative pseudo historians (by the way,most of them are international celebrities & make quite a lot of money dealing with topics they know absolutely nothing about).In the end it is a matter of expertise & intellectual integrity.Where do you put your trust?.In someone who has access to original historical documentations & is capable of reading en vieux Français dans le texte, or someone like St Clair or Wolter who never spent a day inside a library & can't even speak the language.When your kid is diagnosed with cancer, do you take him to the best hospital,or do you consult a witch doctor?.

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Tara Jordan
7/22/2013 05:01:12 pm

Professor Steve St Clair.
This is a very simple challenge.Go to the Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal in Paris.La Bibliothèque nationale de France,la Bibliothèque Universitaire de Paris 8 Vincennes,or Les Archives nationales, & find me one historical document that mentions or records a Knight templar`s transatlantic journey to America.

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James R.
8/7/2013 03:40:10 pm

one is coming out very soon Tara.

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Steve St Clair link
9/24/2013 04:59:25 pm


:)


Ed Tillman
9/4/2022 08:54:06 pm

Newport Tower NPT is another one of these items that causes so much debait. We have heard of Stonehonge in England.That tell of the possition of the earth in relationship to the sun that gives us our seasons.
Now with the help of Professor Penhallow and the current curator Jim Egan of NPT we see it also shows Lunar Minor,equinoxes and Easter. But on Winter Solstice Dec 21 there is a key stone of a egg shape that is illuminated by the sun at 9 AM in the arch between column P-7 and P-8 then at 3PM the smaller somewhat egg shape stone is illuminated in the arch between P-1 and P-2. On the 3rd hr at 9 AM Jesus was put on the cross and at the 9th hr at 3PM he dies. And it out lines Easter and the 21st of Dec the day Christ was born not eartly birth but rather birth by conception when Merry conceived and a new soul was spark. He was born on Sept 15. He dies on Nison 14 (April) and placed in his tomb at 6 PM their Midnight and the tomb was sealed after midnight on the 15th. These numbers are very important and will be used on two runestones The Kensengton and the Spirit Pond. This tower was built to tell the story of Christ. All these alingnments are precise and took a double check to insure and one alignment any happens once in 18.6 yrs and in it the moon shines through two windows at different elevations at the same time, this is not easily done and not needed for a windmill. . This is just to much of an extra expense for a wind mill
I've work as a heavey construction worker all my life. So often I was ask to work on footing. These footings on the most part are twice as wide as the concrete wall they are to carry. We dig down in virgin ground. These columns are 3ft in diameter the men that was the masons need work room for themselves and material. So 3 ft all around the out side propose footing. Now we have a 12 ft hole. Once footing is done then the hole can be filled to the top of footing. The fill has to be compact in lifts usually 4 inch lays of clay or soil the compact.
Once at the top of footing then columns are started. This tower has a lot of mortor and mortor can not be set if the temperature falls into the freeze line durning the night. This is a warm weather job. from 1325 on we entered into mini ice age not many warm nights. After the columns are up above ground level then the back filling starts up again and conpact again useing the same soil or clay that came out. This gives us a level ground to built the scaffoldind around in side and out side of the 2 ft walls.
Now when Godfrey did his dig in 1948 he finds a few things one he finds a gun fint and under the edge of a rock he finds stucco. Why? If built in 17 century then the dirt back fill would have been virgin. I can see the flint being there but stucco thats a finish product material that was used to coat the outside and inside of the tower. And would have been the last thing applied.
So how did that stuco end up in the backfill of the 17th century before the tower was compleated? Is it possible that the first tower fell in on its self or distroyed by man after Verrazzano found it? It could have been done by the decendents of those that built it to protect there secred.
When a buildind is built a set of plans are used and the building gose up notations are note. On all windows and openings that tells all the numbers. The hight of window opening and niches all angel are noted. once all the numbers are in place then if this tower came down then it could be rebuild in just a few months and all the sun and moon alighnment will not need to be made as long as it is built in the same place. I believe thats what happen here stucco from the first building got blended into the backfill.
All this is in my book Heaven Holds the Answer in paper or E-book from Amazon
There was something I wanted to try. In the w-2 window in the sill there are 3 one in holes and 1,three in hole.The photos that I seen I didn't like. So I wrote Jim Egan and ask if he could send me a photo.He did and it was an overhead shot it couldn't been better. And the three one inch dot remind me of orions belt. My therory was that this sill was part of a larger stone and the 3 inch hole was the center of tower. This larger stone maybe 4ft sq was laid flat on the ground and the center hole cut. From this all arches centers, columns, windows,niches and any thing eles was noted. After they was finished with it then it was cut up for sills and lentils





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