Classicist Peter Gainsford made an interesting case on his blog that the humorous ancient Greek science fiction satire of Lucian called The True History includes a close parody of the New Jerusalem of the Book of Revelation. I can definitely see Gainsford’s point, but my gut instinct is that Lucian wasn’t directly drawing on the Christian text in imagining the fantastical paradise on the Isle of the Blessed where the heroic dead reside. Let’s take a quick look at what Gainsford says in order to puzzle out whether he’s right and whether Lucian had it in for Christianity’s most psychedelic text. First, it is beyond doubt that Lucian, a second-century Syrian, knew about Christianity and didn’t think much of it. His Death of Peregrinus mocked Christians for purposely living miserable lives because of an unevidenced belief in immortality, and he scoffed at their primitive communism in which they scorned personal property without any objective guarantee of divine recompense after death. However, Gainsford’s arguments rest on a comparison between True History 2.11-13 and Revelation 21-22, which he presents in brief excerpts but might better be compared in longer form:
Truthfully, I just don’t see the similarities as being all that close. Gainsford claims that their sequence proves similarity: The cities are both of gold, have gates (pearl and cinnamon, respectively), have foundations (twelve of jewels for Revelation and one of ivory for Lucian), either no temple or all the temples, a river of life or of myrrh, and magic fruit (the tree of life with twelve fruits or grape vines with twelve wines, respectively). Both exist in a twilight world with no sun or moon.
It’s not really all that close, truthfully, any more so than one might imagine any holy city. Lucian’s description of the city of the blessed dead would seem to draw more directly on Greek ideas about the afterlife, in their late form. The Isle of the Blessed existed in the farthest west, as Hesiod testifies, beyond where the sun and moon shine on the normal world. Its perpetual spring is merely symbolic of eternal rebirth and was known long before Lucian, or Revelation, as Plutarch testifies in Life of Sertorius 8. The formless dead conform to Homeric ideas about the loved dead existing as disembodied shades, a deeply contrary idea to Christians’ insistence that the New Jerusalem would exist on Earth, filled with the resurrected bodies of the dead. Gainsford says Lucian’s account is a satire, so his substitution of a plank of cinnamon for a pearl is humorous. I guess one could make that case, since Revelation imagines a pearl as big as a gate and Lucian imagines the tiny cinnamon shrub growing equally large. But is cinnamon a funny plant? More likely he meant to tie cinnamon gates to the river of myrrh, both of which Philostratus the Elder in Imagines 2.1 and Theophrastus in On Odors 6 identify as components of unguents and perfumes used in sacred rites. If the two cities share a connection, I don’t think it was a terribly direct one. Reading Lucian’s description, I can’t help but think of the Near Eastern descriptions of the underground city of the dead where the sun retires at night. A hymn to the sun-god Shamash describes his passage into the Underworld, believed to be locked within seven gates, surrounded by a river. Shamash passes through the Garden of the Sun, where the trees bear gems as fruit, and both the lapis lazuli palace of the goddess of the Underworld and the mansion of the golden sun exist there, in what they called “the Great City.” While it was a much gloomier place that Lucian imagines, the point is that similar motifs were long in circulation. We similarly see echoes of magical cities with the same collections of gates, rivers, and magic trees in Arabic literature, which preserved Late Antique Greek accounts not otherwise preserved. The infamous case of Adocentyn from the Picatrix, a late corruption of an earlier Hermetic account of the city of Outiratis, contained (in the older version) four gates, a magic pond, and wonders established by a great king; “He planted a tree that bore all kinds of fruit, and he built a lighthouse whose height was eighty cubits; at the top he put a dome that changed color every day; it assumed seven colors over the seven days of the week, and then it returned to its first color” (Akhbar al-zaman 2.1, my trans.). This story is first attested around 900 CE or so, but it is obviously drawn on an older Hermetic original. It should go without saying that the description Lucian gives is not exactly miles away from Plato’s Atlantis or Euhemerus’s Panchaea, also mythical, divine cities of wealth and majesty. Similarly, the fragments of Mimnertus speak of a city of the sun called Aea, at the gates of the underworld, where the solar rays are kept in a chamber made of gold. It is hardly a stretch to move from there to a city of gold, without St. John’s help. The later version of that same city, eventually reduced to the capital of Colchis in the Argonautica over the passage of time, still describes it as a miracle in stone and bronze, possessed of wondrous fountains from which flowed various liquids, and constructed by the god Hephaestus. This story derives from a Homeric account of the palace of Alcinous (itself taken over from an earlier Argonautica), and both in turn reflect a generalized set of descriptive boasts about royal and divine palaces found across Indo-European poetic traditions, according to M. L. West in Indo-European Poetry and Myth. The city of the beloved dead is merely a palace writ large and can be explained entirely on these grounds without the need for Revelation. So, basically, I’m not fully comfortable with assuming that Lucian was specifically parodying a few paragraphs from Revelation without any other Christian satire in his yarn.
71 Comments
Brian
9/2/2020 09:45:46 am
Lucian was probably the funniest writer of his time, and for a long while thereafter. If he had meant to satirize the Christians in any way, I think we can confidently say that he would done it with no possible chance of our missing the joke. Gainsford's effort seems more than a bit strained.
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Ashin wirathu
9/2/2020 07:02:58 pm
Indeed, he is trying to hammer a round peg into a square hole.
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A C
9/2/2020 01:07:26 pm
Revelation's New Jerusalem is a symbolic building intended for a certain audience, which presumes a pre-existing symbolic language that would allow its symbolism to be interpreted.
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Kent
9/2/2020 03:00:03 pm
The Revelation one, on the left, sounds like a maṇḍala मण्डल, not saying that it *is* but maybe this is how humans tend to go about building imaginary holy cities. Lucian's, on the right, sounds more like Atlantis maybe? Because of its going into detail about activities. Of course Atlantis is in my view on the same level as Garner's characterization of the vice-presidency but perhaps people who actually care will chime in.
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I just felt excited because we have here a reasonable comparison of two cities which may look similar on a superficial level, but which are not. Exactly what I experience with Atlantis all the time. All the time somebody comes around the corner and says, "hey, doesn't this look like Atlantis?" No, it does not.
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Kent
9/2/2020 06:24:59 pm
Myths are invented. Both of the cities in this article are sold as divine and the one from Revelations certainly has predecessors so for comparison, just so you can calibrate your Think-O-Meter, nowhere in Lord of the Rings does it say either "this is invented" or "this is myth" but it is both.
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No. Real myths are rather not invented. They have grown over time. Artificial myths are invented. But artificial myths are presented as myths. While Atlantis ... is not presented as a myth but as the opposite of a myth. So Atlantis is neither a real myth nor an artificial myth. It may still be an invention, but surely not a myth.
Gary X.
9/3/2020 08:43:07 pm
“NONE of my novels have such a hint.”
Kent
9/3/2020 09:27:14 pm
"No. Real myths are rather not invented."
Ernie nevers
9/4/2020 01:44:56 pm
Foundation myths tend to apply to real places that have had supernatural element added to their purported origins. Since there is no real evidence for the existence of the fantastical entity described as Atlantis, and it is supposed to have been created in part by the actions of deities, it would be difficult to avoid using myth or mythical in describing Atlantis whether it be its origin, existence, and characteristics.
@Ernie Nevers:
Ernie nevers
9/5/2020 10:59:13 am
The foundation myth is the primary mythical element of the tale that I was referring to. The physical descriptions of the fortifications and the use of massive quantities of then very valuable materials seems fantastical to me. The notion of a huge island completely disappearing so quickly without a trace is fantastical. I could be wrong but I thought that the story involved the notion that atlantis was destroyed because it lost favor with the gods.
@Ernie Nevers:
E.P. Grondine
9/12/2020 01:48:51 pm
Hi Ernie -
An Over-Educated Grunt
9/3/2020 07:54:53 am
Just so I understand your argument, are you saying that fiction, and therefore the understanding that the story was not true or meant to be taken as such, was a late invention?
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@An over-educated grunt:
An Over-Educated Grunt
9/3/2020 06:18:22 pm
Sinuhe wept.
E.P. Grondine
9/4/2020 10:22:38 am
Well, T., Plato certainly succeeded in his primary task, writing a great story. I often wonder how we got the accepted text, and what the original text was. I have not seen much work done on this.
@An over-educated grunt:
Kent
9/4/2020 10:53:37 pm
I too thought (immediately) of Aesop. And the Nalopakyanam, the Bhagavad Gita, etc. But die geheime Romanpolizei has spoken so my suggestion is to get in line.
Kent
9/5/2020 04:32:17 pm
Great deflection!! So much more fun than just admitting that novels and thrillers (which are also novels) are generally not "tacitly" labelled as such. Kent, it is not my fault that novels are often labelled as novels, though not as regularly as I thought, and sometimes even contain legal phrases to protect the editor from readers who take the story seriously. And yes, you should admire the beginnings of science though funny it may look, sometimes. Plato's classification project was continued by Aristotle, and guess what, there are even funnier stories about what Aristotle believed .... but that's how it all began.
Kent
9/5/2020 11:26:38 pm
Also black bears.
The introduction of Lucian's "True Stories" is remarkable and worth reading:
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Machala
9/6/2020 12:26:51 pm
There is a very fine line in Greek between liar and storyteller. I am not sure, without looking at the original text that Lucian did not call himself a fabalist or storyteller rather than a liar.
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Machala, it is an absolute classical passage and what I told is not my own idea but the prevailing interpretation since ... I don't know, the 19th century, if not earlier.
An Over-Educated Grunt
9/6/2020 03:58:10 pm
That sword has two edges, you may note, as he also describes philosophers as liars.
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Bezalel
9/5/2020 10:08:46 pm
I like the idea of myth as "truthy history wrapped in fictions", sort of like the Zohar or Gita or Odyssey, but I don't know for sure the author's ('s) intentions.
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9/6/2020 05:59:38 pm
Or, as Aristotle distinguished as a secondary category of conviction in rhetoric, it would be 'pisteis entechnoi', an 'artistic proof'. Was Jesus a liar in his parables? (Opening a huge can of worms here, no doubt).
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9/6/2020 01:18:19 pm
Lucian could just as easily have taken the extravagant palaces of Roman Emperors, such as Nero's scandalously bedecked "Golden House", as his model to satirize, as Jason alludes in passing in his comments.
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Bezalel
9/7/2020 06:23:07 pm
What evidence is there Plato ever wrote/spoke without using allegory?
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Bezalel, very true that Plato meant these numbers seriously. It is just what had been believed by all ancient Greeks in this time. Herodotus wrote of Egypt as being 11,340 years old and older.
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9/8/2020 02:04:43 pm
Perhaps because, like other extra-canonical quotations outside Plato's two main narratives by later writers they can be quite equivocal as to their import. In this case it is wise to remember the argument starts about the value of drinking.
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The Victorian age brought up the idea of much irony in Plato's dialogues, but in recent decades it became clear that this is a wrong idea. Many statements which appear to be ironic are not ironic.
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9/9/2020 05:35:34 pm
I'm aware of Lane's (et al) revisionism. It didn't start with the Victorians, it even precedes the Alexandrians. Especially as regards the Atlantis tale.
Charles Verrastro,
E.P. Grondine
9/12/2020 01:41:59 pm
Hi T. -
Kent
9/12/2020 05:13:54 pm
You've been playing that stroke card for years and you generally refer people to your own self-published work as a reference. As Dana Carvey doing G.W.H. Bush said, "Nuh guh duh."
E.P. Grondine
9/12/2020 08:34:30 pm
Hi Kent -
Thank you, E.P. Grondine, and good health!
Kent
9/13/2020 06:25:48 pm
"How can people see my genius?"
E.P. Grondine
9/9/2020 06:24:24 pm
"The Platonic text is relatively well-preserved, compared to other authors. The reason is that he was much read and so many manuscripts were produced, and survived. We have also Latin translations which allow a comparison."
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Hello E.P. Grondine,
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E.P. Grondine
9/10/2020 06:04:29 pm
Hi T. - E.P. Grondine, the 10,000 years do not take us back to "second Holocene Star Impact Event". Only, if you take them literally. But you should not. It's wrong. This date is related to a wrong chronology where Egypt is 11,000 years old (and more). I think I explained this a lot in this forum.
E.P. Grondine
9/12/2020 01:37:59 pm
Hi T. -
Stella Drifter
9/13/2020 08:01:57 pm
Most myths have been worked out. People just refuse to accept the conclusions because it impinges upon their religion. 9/10/2020 05:39:34 pm
Not to be pedantic but just in an effort to clarify the last remark. The 10,000 + years is not referring to the start of Egyptian civilization, just the formation of a cultural style (specifically Dance and the Arts) that codified (or stultified, which seems the final judgement by art historians) over the millennia. Egypt had it's own mythic prehistory before the pharaohs, just like Greece had before the Heroic Age. Although noted Aristotle in Politics that "Egyptians are reputed to be the oldest of nations, but they have always had laws and a political system." Which became something of a mantra for the notion it sprang full blown from the sands like Athena from Zeus' brow. So the one date has little to do with the other. Plato's Egyptian priests pretend to recall several cataclysms of the earth while the Greeks merely had Deucalian's Flood.
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E.P. Grondine
9/11/2020 01:58:21 pm
Hi Charles -
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Kent
9/11/2020 06:38:40 pm
Would we find the Native American records on academia.edu or through interlibrary loan? At least Plato's stuff (and the Gospels) got written down in a reasonable amount of time.
E.P. Grondine, you wrote:
E.P. Grondine
9/12/2020 01:27:23 pm
Hi Kent -
E.P. Grondine
9/13/2020 12:00:33 pm
Hi T. -
Charles Verrastro, you are right, the 10,000 years in Plato's Laws point to wall paintings, not to the foundation of Egypt. But the 10,000 years imply an age of Egypt which is at least 10,000 years old (meaning the non-mythical post-god-rulers period). Therefore I always write "xxx years (and more)". Herodotus set the mark with his 11,340 years (and more).
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E.P. Grondine
9/15/2020 10:13:36 am
Hi T. - 9/12/2020 04:57:29 pm
The antiquity of the Egyptians (and other cultures) was indeed overstated by the Greeks. They even stated one group had songs recording an oral history going back an impossible 40,000 years (the same figure modern science says the Neanderthal line went extinct and the very first primitive musical instruments were created.
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E.P. Grondine
9/13/2020 11:52:59 am
Hi Charles -
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9/13/2020 09:52:00 pm
Didn't mean to disagree with you on your impact findings (I've read your impact studies since our last post and find them very impressive and painstaking). BTW, I was watching what seemed to be a typical feel good puff piece on this morning's CBS Sunday Morning show about backyard astronomers and the light pollution which increasingly narrows any ground-based windows to the sky. They actually mentioned how we don't have a comprehensive watch on our immediate environment with our best systems trained on deep space events, and how amateurs often catch meteorite and even Solar System impact events that the space telescopes and observatories miss. We need that system.
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E.P. Grondine
9/14/2020 01:24:30 pm
Hi Charles -
Kent
9/14/2020 12:50:00 am
Oh my goodness. Chilam Bilam, written in the 1600s CE IN THE ROMAN ALPHABET and borrowing from Greek and Arab sources.
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Dean Key Cox
9/14/2020 01:00:31 pm
"my rope is short"
E.P. Grondine
9/14/2020 01:05:20 pm
Good Morning, Kent -
Kent
9/14/2020 07:35:21 pm
@Dean: I stole that from someone I don't respect, who stole it from someone else.
E.P. Grondine
9/15/2020 08:00:34 pm
Hi Kunt -
Kent
9/16/2020 01:52:54 am
Oh my goodness. Again with the profanity, which I'm surprised Jason allows, but his site, his rules. But when you've back-pedalled as far as you can go and your back is against the wall, sometimes profanity is your only option. Because you are a person of limited capabilities in a sad situation.
E.P. Grondine
9/17/2020 12:43:22 pm
Here you go:
Kent
9/17/2020 05:34:24 pm
The internet is full of videos with no 7 foot tall Indians in them and this is one of them. I minimized the waste of my time by watching it on mute and at maximum speed.
Important Numbers
9/26/2020 01:08:00 am
The whole purpose of a code is to break something down into numbers so it can be reconstituted later. Everything else is irrelevant gloss. Science fiction is just as capable of conveying a coded message as a religious allegory. With these numbers you can create a calendar or a calendar in stone and call it a cathedral. The same numbers were used by their builders. Nova on PBS showed this over 10 years ago. Pretty neat stuff.
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7/11/2023 02:44:54 am
I really enjoyed your blog post. I'm currently working on a project that's similar to what you described, and I'm definitely going to take your advice into consideration. Please keep on posting!
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