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Did the Hopi Migrate to America from Mu in the Pacific Ocean?

4/7/2018

29 Comments

 
I have always found it interesting that the people who claim that academics are hidebound dogmatists willing to die to prevent the truth from escaping nevertheless try to cloak themselves in the borrowed authority of academia. To an extent, this must be a way of trying to give spurious grandeur to incomplete or incorrect claims, but I read with concern the latest Author of the Month Author of the Month posting on Graham Hancock’s website because it starts off with a laundry list of credentialed scholars who have held unusual or incorrect beliefs about the peopling of the Americas. The purpose of such a list can only be to make author Gary A. David appear more serious than his oddball ideas would otherwise come across. Regular readers will remember David as the writer who wrongly asserted that Hopi settlements were laid out in the shape of the constellation Orion, a claim belied by geography and chronology.
​Well, David has a new claim tied to his most recent book, Journey of the Serpent People: Hopi Migrations and Star Correlations. His article begins by drawing on contested claims from an older generation of scholars to suggest that the ancient Americas had received people from every race and continent before the Native Americans, which he bases on a number of known frauds, including the lost continent of Mu, which James Churchward invented in 1926, and the likely hoax of Walam Olum, which Constantine Rafinesque almost certainly fabricated in 1836 as the culmination of his years-long descent into mound builder mysticism. To this, David adds the modern mistake of believing that the Solutreans of ancient Iberia were the first Americans:
In Journey of the Serpent People I discuss the possibility of ancient Solutrean mariners circa 20,000 years ago skirting the ice-edge of the North Atlantic in a counterclockwise fashion to land on the eastern seaboard of North America. I also mention the possibility of some native groups using various sorts of watercraft to skirt the frigid North Pacific in a clockwise fashion from East Asia to Alaska, before sailing south to Vancouver Island and beyond. Whether or not the Lenni Lenape actually made the type of journey described in the Walam Olum, scientists now claim that at least some native people did.
​What is interesting here is less David’s hyper-diffusionist overkill than it is the fact that like so many in his fringe field, his concept of archaeology and anthropology is frozen in his memory of long-ago high school textbooks. He is railing not against the modern understanding of the multiple migrations and proposed coastal routes that led to the peopling of the Americas but rather against the 1960s and 1970s idea of Clovis-first and the Ice Free Corridor through central Canada:
This argonautic scenario ostensibly makes a lot more sense than the monolithic paradigm propounded by most mid-20th century archaeologists—that is, the juggernaut-hordes of Clovis hunters heroically defying the harsh elements as they massacred multiple species of megafauna to extinction on their inexorable drive southward.
​David spends the vast majority of his article arguing for a sea-route that has already entered into mainstream discussion. The Clovis-first hypothesis has been obsolete for my entire adult life, and I’m not sure what the point of setting it up as a straw man is except to try to play off the audience’s high school memories. Most disappointing of all is the fact that David never gets around to defending the strange claim that all of this is building toward: that the Hopi preserve an accurate memory of peopling the Americas 13,000 years earlier by sailing to the New World across the Pacific: 
…Frank Waters, in his 1963 classic titled Book of the Hopi, states that the Hisatsinom (ancestral Hopi, formerly known as the Anasazi), including the Snake Clan, trekked northward to the “Back Door of this Fourth World,” or the Arctic Circle. This implies that the “ice-free corridor” was not the main route; Hopi legends say it was the trans-Pacific. As we approach the first quarter of the 21st century, we find increasing evidence of multiple entryways into the New World—many doors, many “windows of opportunity.”
​The problem with all oral histories recorded in the twentieth or twenty-first centuries is that they are influenced by the education and knowledge of the modern storytellers. When we hear in Lemurian fringe literature of Hopi storytellers identifying their ancestors as having traveled through “South America” and “Canada,” this is clearly a modern interpretation since these places did not bear those names, and the modern teller of oral history must interpret any information from old stories through the lens of his or her modern knowledge of geography. Therefore, “south” becomes “South America,” and “cold” is assumed to describe Canada.
 
That said, there is a recorded story about an ocean crossing, but as Harold Courlander described back in 1971 in The Fourth World of the Hopis, it contradicts the more common story of the Hopi emerging from the Underworld, and it is only with strained effort that the two can be merged into a single myth. “Generally speaking, the [underworld] story is centered in Walpi (which is modern Koechaptevela) on First Mesa, while the water crossing story is heard most frequently in Oraibi, on Third Mesa, but there are conflicts of view even within these villages,” Courlander wrote. Here, though, the identification of the “water” as the ocean is a modern interpretation of a story that at first apparently referenced only water in a general sense. Courlander said that in his judgment, the water version has been “reinforced by infiltrating scientific views that Indians arrived in the New World via the Aleutians and the Bering Strait.” The long and short of it seems to be that Western scientific ideas have pushed the water myth into a specific shape, and after Courlander collected his account, New Age beliefs about Mu and Lemuria changed the story yet again to move the story into the southern Pacific rather than the northern part of the ocean. Since we have no good evidence of what the story said before European contact, there isn’t much to glean from it, must less proof of 13,000 or more years of unbroken tradition. 
29 Comments
A Buddhist
4/7/2018 09:50:09 am

For what it is worth, I, in Canada during the early part of this Millennium, learned only about the Beringia/Icefree Corridor model of migration in Elementary school (that was what was taught in the textbook).

But I have also read in recent years about the Pacific migration model in Canada, and it was never portrayed as a deviant or fringe view defying a hegemonic model; rather, it was presented, quite matter-of-factly, as a model supported by archaeological evidence.

That is how proper archaeology and history should work: scholars, gathering evidence, revise their views to deal with the evidence with little controversy. Yet fringe historians seem to assume that the models of history that they have read about in books are equal to Scriptures in authority among mainstream scholars, and cannot easily be defied. Since so many fringe historians seem to be or have been either Fundamentalist Christians or interpreters of the Bible, perhaps they assume that mainstream scholars, in addition to or as a corollary to not elevating the Bible sufficiently, elevate mainstream scholarly account to the same degree that they (fringe historians) elevate the Bible. If so, this reveals a limitation in the fringe historians' worldviews, in that they cannot imagine scholars not elevating some written account as authoritative.

Reply
Jim
4/7/2018 10:59:27 am

Wait a minute, aren't those mesas the petrified remains of giant trees that the Nephilim climbed down to have sex with the Hopi women ? I thought we were not supposed to talk about them.
Does anyone have a current list from the Smithsonian detailing what we can't talk about ?

Reply
Machala
4/7/2018 01:09:06 pm

It seems to me that Gary A. David is cherry picking bits and pieces of Waters' "Book of the Hopi" to suit his own rather lame narratives.The problem with Courlander, David and several others is that they are Anglos writing through Anglo eyes and through Anglo educational and social conditioning. Even Waters, in his later years began drifting towards New Age thought, believing that he was emulation true Hopi thinking - He was not !

During the many, many years I used Sedona, Arizona as a home base from the early 70's to late 90's, I spent a lot of time up on the Mesas as a guest of several Hopi friends. I had occasion to make friends with Oswald _White Bear_ Fredricks, who was from the Coyote Clan and had been the main source for Waters - acting as his chief researcher and translator. White Bear, himself was a fascinating man - an artist, a visionary, a story teller, and a man passionate about preserving his people's culture and mythology.
Much of the writing style of "Book of the Hopi" is due to Waters virtually copying verbatim White Bear's translations from Hopi to English, of the stories he recorded from the elders of the tribe. While, as the old saying goes, it loses a little something in the translation, nevertheless, the stories of the Hisatsinom ( the forefathers of the Hopi ) are rich in their telling.
BUT THEY SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LITERALLY !!
They are stories and myths that have layers upon layers of meaning.The problem that Anglos have is that they want to take everything they read or hear as "gospel truth" to fit into their own crazy notions about the world. Does it matter that some Hopi believe that they originated from the Center of the Earth, while others believe they came from across the seas ? Not to the Hopituh Shi-nu-mu ( Peaceful Little Ones ).
The social, cultural, and philosophical differences between Walpi and Oraibi have gone on for generations, shaping the individual Hopi's outlook and understanding in ways not easily understood - even by other Native Americans. Anglos cannot begin to understand the complexity of Hopi thought, let alone have the hubris to try to interpret it in such a way as to confirm they're own fringe beliefs.

Reply
Americanegro
4/7/2018 03:55:15 pm

"Anglos cannot begin to understand the complexity of Hopi thought"

That is some racist HitlerwaslazyletskillALLthejewsthistime racist ethnocentric nonsense. Baby Jesus Christ shove that right up your butt.

But your basic point is solid. My first thought and final critique was "Does anyone here speak the language?"

Reply
Machala
4/7/2018 06:27:16 pm

Hopi is a very complex and nuanced language to learn - even for 21st Century Hopis. Many young Hopi are monolingual English speakers, having lost their cultural linguistic roots a couple of generations ago.

I would refer you to Benjamin Lee Whorf (1897-194! ) who was one of the first linguists to study the Hopi language and write a Grammar on the language. A sample can be found by going to:

http://newlearningonline.com/literacies/chapter-1/whorf-on-the-hopi-language

Whorf, Benjamin Lee. 1956. Language, Thought and Reality: Selected Writings of Benjamin Lee Whorf. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press, pp.51-52, 55.

The major problem for understanding Hopílavayi, or any Uto-Aztecan language for that matter, is not the grammar or vocabulary but the nuance of the word sound. One word can mean many things, simply by the voice inflection of the speaker.

As with all language that have an oral, rather than written tradition, not only does Hopi lose something in the translation to English but it loses something in being transcribed. Even White Bear admitted that when he was working with Waters that he was unsure of some of the subtitles of the old storytellers and translated, as best he could in the general context of the tale.

Consider this expression in Navajo: yáʼátʼééh ( often anglicized as Yah Ta Hey ) . It can mean everything from "Hello" "Welcome", "Goodby", to "Go fuck yourself ", depending on the glottal inflection and the intention of the speaker.
I know a gringo politician in Arizona who embarrassed himself publicly. by incorrectly pronouncing in in front of a group of tribal representatives.

Americanegro
4/7/2018 08:40:41 pm

"Hopi is a very complex and nuanced language to learn"

Again you're being Racist White Father. As someone who speaks several "hard" languages, I can tell you that every issue you raise is shared by many other languages.

"Consider this expression in Navajo: yáʼátʼééh ( often anglicized as Yah Ta Hey ) . It can mean everything from "Hello" "Welcome", "Goodby", to "Go fuck yourself ", depending on the glottal inflection and the intention of the speaker."

I don't give a fuck about Navajo, we were talking about Hopi but we have a similar phrase in English: " 'Sup? "

You're creating a problem where there isn't one. It sounds like booga booga but it's just another language. Spoiler alert: it's not Spanish. That's why it sounds like booga booga.

Machala
4/7/2018 11:41:42 pm

"....Again you're being Racist White Father..."

AMERICANNEGRO, Be careful throwing out racial insults at people you don't know - especially ones whose ethnicity you are presuming without basis in fact.I'm about as much a Racist "White Father" as you're an Uncle Tom.
Not that it's any of your business, but I am of mixed racial origins - including being 25% Native American ( Arapaho ).
You are defeating your own argument by attacking me when in reality we are both posting the same observation but from different perspectives. Don't shoot the messenger pard.

Regarding languages, English is NOT my primary language - Spanish is. I also have an fair amount of fluency in French and Italian, a working knowledge of Latin, Irish and German. I also have a passable speaking vocabulary in both Quechua and Shiwiar, and at one time get by in Russian. I learned some Navajo and Hopi but wouldn't call myself proficient.

I merely used the Navajo anecdote to illustrate the point of mispronunciation and misinterpretation in Native American language. Sure, all languages are difficult, but I would invite you to suspend your anger and attitude and go to Walpi, visit the Hopi and experience for yourself what I was trying to say.
Or find a Hopi native speaker and find out just how difficult the language is.

Americanegro
4/8/2018 02:16:33 am

I'll just memorandize what you said:

""Consider this expression in Navajo: yáʼátʼééh ( often anglicized as Yah Ta Hey ) . It can mean everything from "Hello" "Welcome", "Goodby", to "Go fuck yourself ", depending on the glottal inflection and the intention of the speaker."

And what I replied:

"I don't give a fuck about Navajo, we were talking about Hopi but we have a similar phrase in English: " 'Sup? ""

And what you said:

"Anglos cannot begin to understand the complexity of Hopi thought

Anglos cannot begin to understand the complexity of Hopi thought

Anglos cannot begin to understand the complexity of Hopi thought"

That's where the racist Spic Indian buzzer goes off. If you don't see that I don't know what to say to you.

Don't give me this "white people don't understand". It's the same as "coloreds don't understand." It's racist.

A Buddhist
4/8/2018 09:31:59 am

Americanegro: If that be a true memorandum rather than a stream of insults and allegations unsupported, then people who write memoranda as part of their jobs must be extremely off track.

Clete
4/8/2018 10:40:39 am

I am really reaching the point with some of your posts that it is about time for you to leave and spread your knowledge and insults to others.You can disagree with someone while posting without turning into a a complete and total asshole.

Americanegro
4/8/2018 03:02:59 pm

"Anglos cannot begin to understand the complexity of Hopi thought" THAT IS SOME RACIST BULLSHIT RIGHT THERE.

"CLETE
4/5/2018 03:15:48 am
And I hate niggers too."

Yes, always good to hear from you Clete.

Clete
4/8/2018 06:38:17 pm

I am not going to defend myself to someone, such as yourself, who makes assumptions without any facts to back them up. If you think that I am a racist, then nothing I say could possibly change your mind.

Hessenballer
4/15/2018 09:53:31 pm

I totally agree with you. People totally have no understanding the culture at all, and no understanding of the origin stories, and other narratives used by the people in this culture. They have no clue what their talking about. Anyone can claim that anyone is from anywhere with faulty evidence, or cherry-picked and forged artifacts that are used to prove a point. Europeans have especially loved claiming that these ancient peoples were descendants of Europeans. If they believe that they were first, then they would believe that the real natives are the invaders, which merely justifies violence against people. People need to be more careful about what they chose to say about people without studying a culture with real evidence, experts, and insiders.

E.P. Grondine
4/8/2018 12:13:38 pm

Thanks for sharing, Machala

Reply
V
4/9/2018 12:45:06 am

I think it's hubris on your part to say that "Anglos cannot begin to understand the complexity of Hopi thought." I might not have the same cultural background as a Hopi, but I'm fairly sure Hopi thought isn't more complex than mine; it just follows different paths. And Americanegro is, for once, correct: this statement is a racist on, assuming a superiority based solely on superficial cultural and racial characteristics.

Complex thinking is the hallmark of HUMAN thinking. Some practice it a bit more than others. Some of that is culturally informed. The forms may vary, but the levels of complexity, not so much.

Reply
E.P. Grondine
4/10/2018 02:09:29 pm

V. -

I think it is hubris on your part to pretend that you can understand the world view of anyone raised within any Native American society. From what I've seen, it takes people many years of very close contact to understand even simple aspects of Hopi life . The same goes for Zuni and Navajo.


David Bradbury
4/10/2018 04:16:50 pm

But Machala's original claim, as AN had subtly reminded us, was "Anglos cannot begin to understand the complexity of Hopi thought". Your suggestion, on the other hand, is that outsiders can begin to understand the complexity thought, given many years of close contact.
If Anglo outsiders specifically are considered to be an exception to that, then we're probably back to racism.

Machala
4/10/2018 07:25:12 pm

Blame my choice of English words rather than my intentions for causing this misunderstanding. I should have said that, for a non-Hopi, understanding their nuanced language, social philosophy, and theology is extremely difficult. I particularly used Anglos because of the bastardization of Hopi thought by New Age proponents. This is something I have seen time and again by those misguided and misinformed individuals seeking enlightenment through what they perceive as " The Hopi Way ".<P> All languages and cultures are complex - and as V said, some more complex than others. It is presumptuous for an "outsider" to automatically assume that they can understand another culture completely. That is hubris ! <P>
My comments were not intended to be racist but rather reactionary to those "scholars" and "philosophers" - particularly non-Native Americans - who are attempting to hijack and/or cherry pick Hopi ( in this instance ) myths and oral history to fit their own fringe theories.
V, and David Bradbury, your point is well taken and I apologize for any misunderstanding caused by my writing style.

Cesar
4/7/2018 02:51:20 pm

“Solutreans of ancient Iberia”.

Did you mean the peninsule of Iberia? Or Siberia?

There is another Iberia in the Caucasus.

Reply
Americanegro
4/7/2018 03:47:21 pm

In the Harry Potter world of people who believe in the Solutrean Hypthesis they didn't come from Spain or Portugal. You're being a butt.

Reply
Kisses
4/7/2018 06:51:11 pm

No bigger butt than the story of Jesus....

E.P. Grondine
4/7/2018 09:10:58 pm

Hi Jason -
your post for today raises a number of issues -

First off, as pertains to the Walum Olam, Rafinesque, and your book. There were/are 3 divisions of the Lenape: Turkey, Turtle, and Wolf. It is highly likely that the Wolf used pictographic mnemonic aids, and that Rafinesque obtained them via a physician who was working in Anderson, Indiana when a plague hit the Lenape there and their mide died.

The transcription and what Rafinesque did with it (how he "read" it) are other questions. While Oestricher is quite insistent, western division Wolf Lenape trust Rafinesque.

Native American methods of oral tradition keeping are different than those of other people. The nations at the time of contact were often combinations of earlier peoples, and sometimes contradictory traditions from the different component peoples were held at the same time.

That said, the Holocene Start Impact Events fro 13,000 years ago were remembered, and the peoples in the East remembered them, and where they were, and can generally be
locked onto the archaeological record from that time:

http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3656
http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3668

Due to the misunderstandings by Europeans of their traditional histories, the Hopi, Zuni, and Navaho leadership forbid any sharing excepts those authorized by their national councils.
Even skilled and honest individuals can be confused in their understanding of these materials.

(In the East, the Ojibwa, Potawatomi, and Odawa mide hold their traditions very closely and generally do not share them.)

So, in sum, two different creation stories can co-exist;
mt DNA can be used to sort them out definitively.

Reply
Ghost of David Brinkley
4/8/2018 02:19:18 am

More goddam nonsense.

Reply
Doc Roc
4/8/2018 09:38:37 am

Nonsense here and a textbook example of Naïve Realism above.

You guys are killing it in this one.

E.P. Grondine
4/8/2018 12:04:33 pm

What's up, Doc :p) -

Thanks.

Years ago I was called a low brown determinist;
naive realist works as well.

Doc Rock
4/8/2018 12:59:14 pm

I think you are confused about which comments were used in reference to which specific members of the kids table.

I'll leave it to all of you to figure it out.

Reply
They're demons not aliens
4/8/2018 03:53:21 pm

Why do you have link to Michael Heiser on your webpage? Doesn't he believe in batshit crazy stuff like the nephilim and Jesus rising from the dead? It's weird that you debunk people with crazy beliefs but then you have a link to a guy's website who has crazy beliefs.

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
4/9/2018 06:38:50 pm

I'm glad Jason connects to Michael Heiser, PhD, because Heiser is very useful. He's an actual ancient languages scholar who can debunk things in specific terms, and can muster good evidence to show how certain misunderstandings, or worse, are just that.

I'm sure he believes in the resurrection of Jesus as he's some kind of Christian. Not sure about the Nephilim, but as he's been useful in debunking Sitchin's and other's mis-statements about those mythological beings, I don't care all-that-much if he thinks they exist in some other forms. He can be wrong about some stuff and still be useful.

To cite another example: Chris White is a self-described conspiracy theorist and young earth creationist, but he still did an awesome job at debunking many ancient aliens claims. I love watching his movie "Ancient Aliens Debunked."

-An Anonymous Nerd

Reply
Giovanni
4/12/2018 02:16:10 pm

If a language is unclear in various ways and contains various ambiguities, it does not follow that thought in that language is necessarily complex. Maybe it is just unclear thought!

Reply

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