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Documents Detail David Grusch's Efforts to Avoid Speaking to AARO

4/18/2024

14 Comments

 
​New government documents obtained by John Greenewald of The Black Vault show that so-called “UFO whistleblower” David Grusch repeatedly refused offers to provide testimony and evidence to the Pentagon’s UFO office, AARO, even while Grusch publicly stated that AARO had refused to meet with him. The documents show that Grusch initially expected that AARO would simply rely on previous statements Grusch had made to the intelligence community inspector general, not realizing that because he raised a potential criminal matter (about hiding programs from Congress) the material was not accessible to AARO during the investigation. When asked to repeat his testimony to AARO, he refused, raising false concerns that AARO wasn’t legally entitled to classified information and refusing to show up for scheduled interviews. Even after AARO and Congress informed Grusch he was wrong about the law, he did not speak to them.
​Also of note are messages then-AARO director Sean Kirkpatrick exchanged with Chris Mellon in which Mellon appeared to workshop ways to spin events so Grusch could avoid speaking to AARO while blaming AARO. Mellon demanded contact information for Kirkpatrick’s general counsel, which Kirkpatrick said he would not provide without permission due to the threat of harassment. “Dave can now say, ‘Sean has refused to provide me or my attorney the contact information that would allow us to discuss legal concerns we have with providing testimony to AARO.’” Kirkpatrick replied, “Actually, Dave can’t say any such thing since he hasn’t asked me for anything. Only you.” (Side note: Why don’t these government officials have public-facing contact information for their offices specifically for use in official duties?) With no sense of irony, Mellon later stated that he would not share Grusch’s contact information without permission. (Grusch refused to provide his phone number.)
 
Mellon’s private words are a marked contrast to his public face. In public, Mellon has been on board the alien train, endorsing Jacques Vallée’s Trinity crash claims and telling The Hill and other outlets that he believes aliens are buzzing American skies. In private, Mellon told Kirkpatrick about Grusch: “I […] have not claimed his claims are accurate. I’ve said he’s sincere and credible and his and other claims, which I expressly called “allegations,” warrant investigation. […] I’m not taking a position on […] the underlying claim of recovered materials.”
 
Overall, the documents paint a rather clear picture of Grusch throwing up one obstacle after another to avoid speaking with AARO, where he would be challenged on his assertions and asked for specific evidence, while he was busy making evidence-free claims to Congress and to UFO-friendly media, who asked for no proof. Mellon, too, comes across as playing both sides, wanting to appear as a neutral party while running interference for Grusch and attempting to find ways to promote pro-UFO narratives that blame AARO for the obvious lack of UFO evidence.
14 Comments
The people at the Pentagon
4/18/2024 05:58:51 pm

There must be wackos and dorks within the Pentagon just like everywhere else in society. More to the point, the brain can be calibrated in almost any way imaginable. The perfect example is still Isaac Newton who was as brilliant a scientist as he was a quack and a goofball. The scientists at first tried to keep his wacky beliefs a secret. You only need to look at Amazon books to see titles written by shrinks who seriously believe in all sorts of rubbish and jargon. I remember reading about 15 years ago online from a lower teacher complaining about a higher member of staff that believed in Remote Viewing. So it goes.

Reply
Crash55
4/18/2024 07:27:13 pm

A few years ago the powers that be decided that phone numbers are no longer allowed on Distribution A releases. The only thing we can release are our official email addresses.

The only time you will find phone numbers published these days are for public facing offices. Even then it is usually just one for the main Administrative contact

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
4/18/2024 09:57:55 pm

"Why don't they have public facing contact info?"

They do. They always do. If you look for it, it's there.

What pisses me off about ALL of this is that there's more verbiage in last year's NDAA about reporting requirements for alien artifacts, for which there's no evidence, than verbiage about constructing, maintaining, or modernizing the very laboratory facilities where those artifacts would be investigated. It's a great exercise in foot-shooting - if it is there and we are exploiting it, why not emphasize that?

Reply
Crash55
4/19/2024 10:28:33 am

Only if the office is supposed to be public facing. If not then the contact will be a generic one for that office.

This change started about 10 years ago and has accelerated in the last few years. My lab (directorate) used to have its own Facebook page. That hasn’t been updated since 2018 and none of the contact info works. The Center I work for has a single public facing email address.

The PM shops have web forms now as opposed to publicly available email addresses and phone numbers.

We are no longer allowed to list phone numbers on posters, presentations or marketing materials. Only email addresses. All of our phones just got swapped to Teams phones with a different area code so anything out there listing phone numbers is probably useless.

Reply
An Over-Educated Grunt
4/19/2024 07:33:01 pm

All of what you listed counts as having an outward-facing contact point. I say this as someone who's had to try to navigate interservice and interagency contact, because the person who should know the answers either doesn't know our doesn't exist. 90% of the time, the outward-facing web form does its job even on really obscure questions. Having worked computer tech support and been on the other side of that interface, I'm okay with that level.

Out of curiosity, are yours Alexandria area codes? I actually liked that change because Teams follows me around. My "office" phone number in the Army directory is not just a different job ago, it was three offices ago in that job because changing the directory number is a pain in the ass. Meanwhile, each Teams user gets a one and done number, and long as I'm on the Army Teams instance it stays the same. Way less painful for me to track.

Crash55
4/19/2024 10:13:55 pm

In my case there is one publicly available email address for 4500 people split across 4 sites.

My new Teams number has an Arizona area code. Having a number that follows you makes sense for military where you frequently relocate. For me losing the number I had used for 20+ years is going to cause issues. Two very annoying parts so far: 1. When the Army decides it is time to login to Teams again it drops the phone call. 2. There is a noticeable delay when answering the Teams number on the iPhone.

Reply
Kent
4/20/2024 12:54:06 pm

Walk me through this if you will, and you will.

This Teams nonsense sounds like having a cellphone only worse. Presumably it checks your military-issue phone for TikTok, or in the case of Bring Your Apple Device To Work Day, your personal iPhone. One wonders if it can forward to a landline.

No one has considered that possibility that AARO *doesn't have* a General Counsel? Yes of course the DoD has one, hands off put on socks and try to ketchup (Fox Force Five). Is it possible that Christopher Mellon is one of those people who are just asking to be messed with (yeah, like you don't have a list Dear Reader!) and his interlocutor picked up on that?

Reply
Crash55
4/21/2024 11:05:48 am

I have been told there are two reasons behind the change in phones:
1. You will have one number that can follow you throughout your career. Makes more sense for military than civilians.
2. The phones were considered a shadow network and thus were deemed a security risk if on the same network as our computers.

Evidently my site could have kept our phone numbers at least for a while longer but we would have had to purchase an entire extra set of switches at a cost of about $400k.

Since it is a Teams phone number it only works when logged into Teams and you use the headset on your PC. I haven’t seen an option to forward the calls.

My government issued phone already has spyware that monitors every installed program and sends a warning if unauthorized software is found.

AARO is supposed to be a DoD office isn’t it? Most likely they would use the lawyers of their parent organization. Until you get way up most government lawyers appear to be just building a resume and passing through.

An Over-Educated Grunt
4/21/2024 12:39:06 pm

Different experience, different outcome. Back when I worked on an installation, they did a renovation on my building and I moved offices three times, with attendant phone number changes, in two years. Change jobs from one group in the building to another? Move offices, new phone. I was actually off on the number of desk phones I had there. I had six in my nine years in that office - and keep in mind, this was without a PCS. Since moving off post, we've had our lease moved once, and that's where we just rage-quit desk phones. So, since 2013, I've had eight different phone numbers with one PCS. To me, the Teams move fixed the issue of where to call. And that's without my being telework 80% of the time - if I had a desk phone, it wouldn't get answered.

Now, I do agree with you about the delay and the login. My pet peeve there is the iPhone just refuses you doing anything in Teams until it completes an update that appears scheduled with a random number generator.

Reply
Crash55
4/21/2024 08:39:03 pm

Sounds like your IT / phone people were lazy. I know people that have moved multiple offices in multiple buildings on the installation and kept their numbers.

The Teams number does help with the telework vs in office issue, since it rings wherever you are logged into Teams. The fact that it just drops the call when you need to log back in though is very annoying. It took me several minutes to figure out why the call was dropped. Also if login servers go down (several times a year) we will lose phone service.

A big concern was safety. With the old system you could grab anyone’s phone to make a call to security / fire. That is no longer an option. We made them install phones in the hallways and in every lab for safety.

An Over-Educated Grunt
4/22/2024 09:46:10 pm

Well... yes, they're the NEC. To describe them as "lazy" is to praise them by faint damnation. Our office IT people were fine, but if you had to interact with the installation you'd be better off yelling into a tin can, string optional. I have yet to work on or around an Army installation where the NEC rose above "neutral" in terms of customer experience, and the seemingly fanatical determination to restrict all bandwidth passing through official channels to the point that it's like drinking a milkshake through a coffee stirrer runs smack-dab in the face of the increasing level of data-driven everything that the Army does. Given that the current trend isn't just to cloud storage but to pass up local installs in favor of cloud applications, that's only going to get worse. Good luck running cloud AutoDesk or Revit via an Army network, and that's the direction that they're drifting - I won't say moving, that implies intent.

I may have strong opinions on the Army's IT infrastructure. Air Force installations tend to be moderately better, but I rarely get to work on them. The ITaaS contract has, remarkably, been a breath of fresh air in that regard. I have reservations about letting a private company take the reins on a mission-critical function, but the general network quality has been much better.

Now, my "I hate ARCYBER" rant aside, I wouldn't have thought of the safety and security issue. Given that part of my job is making sure that future design standards don't miss things like that, I'm going to put that in my back pocket, that facilities still need hard lines in common spaces for emergency services.

crash55
4/23/2024 05:30:06 pm

I agree that Army IT is horrible. More and more I am needing to edit stuff inside of Teams. That is great when I am on a thin client laptop using my hotspot from a hotel room.

They have moved almost everyone at my site to thin clients. They did it before upgrading network bandwidth so at first you could type faster than it showed on the screen. The new ones are supposedly full clones but you are still limited to network bandwidth. I am one of eth few that still has a PC due to certain software.

Besides common spaces, anything designated as a lab or manufacturing space needs to have a physical phone for safety.

An Over-Educated Grunt
4/26/2024 10:06:03 pm

Well, tell you what, not going to be giving out contact info on Jason's blog, but if you ever feel like finding the guy in AFC G-4/9 who looks most like Rasputin, that's me.

Crash55
4/27/2024 12:14:00 pm

Sounds good. I am at AC but sit at WVA. Never had a reason to deal directly with AFC HQ. DCG of DEVCOM is as high as I have interacted with.


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