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Doug Woodward Says I Am Wrong Because Nephilim Infected Our Y Chromosomes with Evil Angel DNA

11/8/2013

24 Comments

 
A self-proclaimed member of the “Christian community,” Doug Woodward, author of a book on the coming threat of the Antichrist to America, has challenged my recent discussion of the Nephilim and the ancient astronaut theory, particularly as presented by L.A. Marzulli. Before reading Wooward’s discussion, it’s probably a good idea to review my original blog post, which examined Marzulli’s upset and outrage at Ancient Aliens’ recent episode arguing that Satan was a cosmic defender of humanity against nefarious aliens masquerading as Yahweh.

The crux of Woodward’s claim is that I am insufficiently deferential to biblical infallibility, which is not a critique so much as a philosophy. Woodward maintains that the Nephilim are real angel-human hybrids who continue to pose a threat to humanity today. On the other hand, he views me as “pseudo-sophisticated” and says I am employing distortions and falsehoods to deny these creatures’ existence. He also makes a very serious legal claim that I committed “defamation” in my remarks about Marzulli by suggesting that his views were not intellectually sound.

Before we begin, let me note that Woodward is especially angry that I called the Nephilim demons when, in his view, fallen angels and demons are two very different categories. But that’s the problem: Marzulli (and his defender, Woodward) wants us to use 1 Enoch and Jubilees, two apocryphal texts, to better understand the Nephilim, and in those two books, the authors make very plain that demons originate in the ghosts of the Watchers’ (Fallen Angels’) children (1 Enoch 15:11, Jubilees 10:4, etc.). Therefore, I didn’t think it a stretch to apply an infernal adjective to their sinning fathers.

Woodward begins by quoting Genesis 6:1-4, that infamous passage in which the redactors of Genesis state that there were giants (Nephilim) on the earth before the Flood and these giants were the offspring of the “sons of God” and human women and were remembered as the mighty heroes of legend. Right away, Woodward and I differ in opinion in that he believes that the Bible is infallible so therefore the giants existed, whereas I view Genesis like any other ancient text and therefore do not assume its claims are literally true just because it was so written.

Woodward next states that he believes that I am too self-confident in my theology and biblical studies. By contrast, my published work clearly states that I am no theologian and that I am frankly not particularly well-versed in the apocryphal texts like Jubilees, etc.

But Colavito’s challenge is worthy to address because it personifies a growing sentiment amongst those who challenge Marzulli’s teaching about the Nephilim (a teaching hardly unique to LA). Therefore, Colavito’s shots at LA are really shots at the whole community of teachers (myself included) who contend what we teach about the Nephilim is the correct biblical position – that the Nephilim were hybrid humanoids that infected humankind before the flood of Noah. In other words, when asserting this doctrine, LA hardly stands alone.

I, frankly, am not quite sure what I am supposedly denying. One can hardly deny that Genesis states that sons of God mated with human women and produced giants. Regardless of whether you think this actually happened in real life, it is what the text states. The trouble seems to descend on the “infected” part, which is not found in the Hebrew Bible, or the New Testament, and as an innovation of this alleged community of Nephilim-studies teachers.

The first problem is who the Nephilim were. The Genesis text is a bit ambiguous on this point:

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

Woodward asserts that the Nephilim are the sons of God from the second half of the first sentence, though he does admit that this is an interpretation. Most biblical commentators and explicators, however, read the Nephilim (or giants) as the children of the sons of God (who after all already have a name), including Aquila, Rosenmüller, Gesenius, Luther, Calvin, Kurtz, Keil, and Murphy, as the Pulpit Commentary asserts. However, Gill’s Exposition by contrast asserts that the order of events implies that the giants (the Nephilim) preexisted the mating of fallen angels and human women and therefore were related to neither. Jewish scholars assert, in yet a third opinion, that there are no supernatural creatures here at all; instead, the “sons of God” were the children of Seth, while the daughters of men were the women descended from sinful Cain; therefore, their mixed union produced violent, marauding thugs. These being but three schools of thought on the meaning of this passage, from unimpeachable sources: actual believers in the truth of the Bible. The fundamentalist reading is neither the only acceptable reading, nor even the majority reading.

Wooward, however, asserts that the angels did in fact inject DNA into the human genome through their mixed mating with human women. Not being a biblical scholar, I still feel confident that the Hebrew Bible mentions nothing about DNA, nor does it assert that the sons of God are carbon-based life forms composed of cells governed by proteins. In fact, it would be something of a shock to find that aliens are made of cells and DNA since that would mean they had physical substance and yet leave no physical trace behind.

However, Woodward states that he believes I am advocating Manichaeism because I supposedly say that “any true god must have both an evil and a good side (‘aspect’) in order to be an enlightened being… which is a Luciferic premise shared with most New Age thinking.” Sorry, but I don’t advocate Manichaeism, or any other theism (or non-theism for that matter), nor am I overly concerned with the problem of evil. I’m pretty sure I’ve said more than once that “good” and “evil” are human concepts, not universal concepts; their meaning changes across cultures and through time. Is that relativism? Then it is relativism. Woodward distinguishes between Luciferianism and “true” Satanism in order to excuse ancient astronaut theorists from embracing “evil.”

He also wants to clarify exactly how angel DNA worked its way into the human genome:

Actually, Nephilim theorists, if I may call our group by this awkward label, argue that sin is carried through the male “Y” chromosome, not the bloodline per se, certainly not a post-Jesus bloodline. That is why a woman can provide a 100% sin free egg – but the gamete becomes infected via the male seed.

So, what part of my summary saying that Marzulli asserts sin is a biological product of semen is wrong? I admit that I failed to understand that only men can be semi-divine Nephilim carriers, but I’m not sure that locating sin on a specific chromosome really makes their case stronger. What exactly is the sequence of nucleotides for sin? But who could deny this obvious truth? As Enoch says, “The whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin” (1 Enoch 10:8). Oops… we’re supposed to believe that sin is genetic, not taught.

At this point Woodward simply departs from anything resembling mainstream Christianity and instead advocates a wild new idea that the Holy Spirit brought “male seed” to artificially inseminate Mary to produce Jesus. Woodward also denies that the two genealogies of Jesus given in the New Testament (Matthew 1 and Luke 3) contradict each other, which is fine I guess since he subscribes to the idea that Luke’s genealogy traces Jesus’ descent through Mary (as I indicated in my blog post), but it does contradict the concept of literalism since the text of Luke explicitly states that Jesus was “the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, which was the son of Matthat…” back and back to Adam. The literal reading gives only the male line. Woodward prefers “biblical infallibility” to textual literalism and therefore has no trouble revising troublesome passages to meet his assumptions.

This is made plain when he complains about my expression of confusion of how the DNA of the Nephilim persisted after the Flood: “There are many things that are not covered in Genesis. The Bible doesn’t intend to provide all information about everything.” Great! So, you’re free to make up anything you want so long as it isn’t explicitly contradicted by a passage in Genesis. Awesome. Woodward thinks Ham or his son Canaan was a carrier of sinful DNA, which is rather troublesome given that fundamentalists also think that after the Flood Ham was the father of the world’s black African people and Canaan of the Palestinians, who are therefore born evil, unlike the white people of Europe and America, who are conveniently less tainted. I have no idea how one can claim that Canaan or Ham had the Y chromosome but not Noah or the other sons of Noah since Y chromosomes are passed only from father to son. Apparently Nephilim chromosomes are sneaky.

In my post, I noted that apocalyptic Judaism begins the process of creating a personified figure of evil, later known as Satan or the Devil, information I got from several books by Biblical scholars on the origin of the Devil. Woodward rejects the idea that Biblical books and the apocryphal literature were composed at varying and relatively recent dates, and he wishes to revise most of them back several centuries. He claims that Satan in the Book of Job is the personification of evil and therefore disproves my idea since Job is so old a book. But as most biblical scholars recognize, the Satan of Job is not evil (or even the Devil as we have him today) but merely an angel doing the work of challenge that God created him to do.

Woodward next claims that I am purposefully inaccurate about distinguishing between the Watchers and the giants in order to belittle believers—which is ridiculous since Enoch isn’t canonical outside of Ethiopia and therefore isn’t part of most fundamentalists’ beliefs. In Enoch, God orders the Flood to “destroy…the children of the Watchers,” and I said that this suggested God was no longer ascribing sin to human actions as in Genesis 6 but rather was upset at the Fallen Angels for creating sin. Woodward decides to read my sentence in the most literal way to suggest that I don’t see that the Watchers are not their own children. But in Enoch and Jubilees God is punishing the Watchers with eternal bondage and torment while letting their children’s souls run free. The divine wrath is obviously falling on the fathers, not the sons.

But all of this is beside the point because Woodward’s major problem is that I accept that the Biblical texts were written by more than one person and were edited and changed through time. (Woodward assumes I subscribe to the 20th century idea of the four source texts, though recent scholarship prefers a different pattern of contribution and revision.) On the other hand, he sees Genesis especially as an infallible record that came down to us from the dawn of time. Woodward is angry at what he rightly calls my “naturalism” and failure to assume the existence of Biblical texts at period when they cannot be proved to have existed.

There isn’t much of a way to argue about that. Woodward and Marzulli have their own, self-created brand of Christianity that literalizes the supernatural as physical DNA and, assuming their beliefs key to interpreting an infallible text, erected a circular, self-reinforcing belief system where the conclusion of any line of inquiry serves only to prove the assumptions arrived at through hope and faith.

Let’s just finish with a final thought from Woodward on why the Nephilim are real:

Extensive archeological evidence is piling up in the Americas, including LA’s recent work in Peru, of giants’ bones and malformed skulls, fossils buried amidst Neolithic and early modern artifacts (such as massive copper coats of armor) – such discoveries shaking up the standard model of humankind’s history, much to the chagrin of the Smithsonian Institute.

So here we go again: skull binding, fossil megafauna bones, alleged nefarious Smithsonian conspiracies; all material we have encountered time and again. And why are we back to giants when his whole argument was that the Nephilim were synonymous with the Sons of God because Nephilim meant “fallen”? Where did these giants even come from? Oh, right: The apocryphal literature, which said that the giants’ ghosts haunt us, not their DNA. It makes my head hurt. (Oh, there’s that sarcasm he criticized again.)

What is “Neolithic” in an American context? European periods aren’t the same as those in America. I assume he means Paleoindian, but perhaps Archaic? So where are these “massive copper coats of armor”? I assume—but do not know since he gives citations only to other Biblical giant websites and authors—he’s referring to the 1832 discovery of a skeleton in Fall River, Massachusetts found wearing a copper breastplate, inspiring Longfellow’s poem “The Skeleton in Armor.” At least one other copper breastplate has been found, and it is believed that they were used in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, inspired by European armor and made, apparently, from European brass kettles used as trade goods.

There is no point in trying to argue with Woodward; his conclusions were inherent in his assumed premise. As Stephen Colbert put it in a different context, “The facts may change, but my opinion never will.” And that opinion is that Y chromosomes have evil angel DNA.


24 Comments
charlie
11/8/2013 09:58:38 am

The entire problem these people seem to have is they claim the bible is infallible. I find that totally ridiculous as so much of it was copied, names changed to protect the guilty, from much older stories. There was no exodus as the Egyptians were as obsessive as the Nazis in writing down their history. Had the entire army, along with the king, drown in the Red Sea, they'd have written it down all over the kingdom. Never happened.
All the religious holy books are filled with errors of various kinds. We have zero true original copies of any of them as far as I know. Admittedly, I don't know much on this, having only been a machinist, not a history or bible scholar. I do read a great deal on many subjects and follow no religion. I do find it quite funny how so many supposed believers will argue odd, minor details of the various religions to no end. If for example, Christianity was really "the" true religion, why are there so many various "flavors" of it? Every religion seems to claim that it, and it alone, is "the" true one.
It makes one play the John Lennon song "Imagine" over and over.
The argument in this post is so very silly in my opinion. Such a minor detail in a fairy story, and yet, how many will get harmed, how much violence will be done until people wake up to the fact that no holy book is infallible?

Reply
Varika
11/8/2013 12:34:33 pm

A few points:

1. That there is no record of Pharaoh and his army drowning does not mean there was no Exodus; it only means that Exodus did not occur as written by the Jews. I tend to believe that the basis for Exodus was the fleeing of a small group of radicals that did not have nearly the political import they WANTED to have, in much the same was as some of the cults of modern America preach to their members that they are SO IMPORTANT that soon the ENTIRE AMERICAN ARMY will be bearing down on them. It's still a fallacy to say that because one event didn't happen, the entire thing didn't happen.

2. "Every" religion does not, in fact, "claim that it, and it alone, is 'the' true one." Buddhism, Shinto, and Wicca all allow for members to have more than one faith. Further, most pagan religions of Europe also didn't care who you believed in--even the Roman Empire said you could worship who you wanted as long as you honored the Emperor. It's mostly the Judeo-Christian-Islamic faiths that have the "one true way" syndrome.

I agree, though, that there is no such thing as an infallible holy book, or indeed, an infallible book of ANY kind.

Reply
Thane
11/8/2013 01:47:04 pm

>> It's mostly the Judeo-Christian-Islamic faiths that have the "one true way" syndrome.<<

I guess that if you are a monotheist and there is only ONE God, it makes it difficult to accept OTHER gods. Since polytheists already believe in multiple gods, what's a few more?

The Romans, btw, did attempt to suppress Christianity.

Here's a handy persecution chart I found but haven't verified. They do list primary sources...

http://www.fourthcentury.com/index.php/diolectian-persecution-chart/

I read somewhere else about other cults that were suppressed by the Romans but I can't find my source....so, I have nothing of value to add.

Mandalore
11/8/2013 02:26:50 pm

Roman persecution of Christians was political, not religious. The Christian rejection of all other gods undermined the Peace of the Gods, the Roman relationship with the gods that maintained the prosperity of Roman society and the Empire. Sacrifice to the emperors was part of that. The only other religious group the Romans persecuted were Druids, but again for political purposes. Druidic priests were rebel leaders against the Empire. The Romans were far more likely to adopt other people's gods in order to increase the number of gods helping them. Jews were exempted as an ancestoral religion whose antiquity the Romans respected.

Thane
11/8/2013 03:03:27 pm

Thanks, Mandalore.

I wasn't thinking of persecutions in terms of religious or political. I just grouped all persecutions of a religious group as simply persecutions. It is an important distinction that you point out.

Other than the Druids, wasn't there suppression of a bacchanal sect as well?

Do you know of any suppression of other religions absent political reasons in the Roman Republic/Empire before the dominance of Christianity in the later Empire? I'm just curious..

Thanks

Varika
11/8/2013 04:41:45 pm

Yes, Thane, when you're talking about "one true religion," whether a religious group was persecuted for their religious beliefs or their politics is DEFINITELY an important distinction. Just sayin'.

In doing a little poking around, I've found the Bacchanalian sect suppression you mentioned, but what I'm turning up seems to indicate they weren't suppressed because Rome went "That's the wrong faith to be following," but rather because they were indulging in some serious law-breaking.

"Nor was the mischief confined to the promiscuous intercourse of men and women; false witness, the forging of seals and testaments, and false informations, all proceeded from the same source, as also poisonings and murders of families where the bodies could not even be found for burial. Many crimes were committed by treachery; most by violence, which was kept secret, because the cries of those who were being violated or murdered could not be heard owing to the noise of drums and cymbals." From Livy's History of Rome, which I found here: http://www.preteristcentral.com/Rome's%20Suppression%20of%20the%20Bacchanalian%20Cult%20-%20Legal%20Precedet%20for%20Nero's%20Persecution.html

There is, by the way, also some evidence that the early Christians were causing a certain level of political unrest. The apocryphal text "Acts of Paul and Thecla" (written sometime prior to 190 AD) suggests that some of what some early Christian sects were preaching was quite unwelcome to Roman senatorial ears. At the very least, Tacitus, in Book XV of his Annals (http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/annals.11.xv.html), makes it fairly clear that the Christians of the time had made themselves a general nuisance to their neighbors. "...Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. ...an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind."

This says NOTHING about Christianity's religious views, or about my views of Christianity as a religion, to be perfectly crystal clear on the subject. This is only about the interactions between early Christians and Rome. This is some evidence that early Christians weren't just living laid-back, quiet lives where they were barely even speaking to their neighbors, but rather that they were getting up in people's faces--a tradition that some sects continue to this day. *ahemTheWatchtowerahem* It doesn't make what was done to early Christians right by any means, it just gives a clearer picture that this was POLITICAL persecution rather than religious.

The Other J.
11/8/2013 05:21:48 pm

I think "handy persecution chart" is my favorite phrase of the day.

Mandalore
11/9/2013 04:40:12 pm

There were no other persecutions by the Romans during the Empire other than Christians or Druidism (again for non-religious reasons).

As for the Bacchanalian cult, Varika is right that it wasn't about the cult bit the potential activities it represented. The Romans always had a problem with secret meetings of people. They were paramour about plots. The Bacchanalian were too secretive. In his letters Trajan also makes a special point to Pliny that he prevent or breakup any secret meetings of any group to avoid plots. That is why collegia were outlawed during most of the Republic and during the Empire. Trajan had a thing against the. Collegia too.

There were lots of rumors about Christians floating around. Insest, cannabilism, plotting, and general trouble making. And the social disruption. During the Pax Romana Roman emperors took no actions against Christians on an Empire-wide scale. Trajan certainly couldn't care less. Persecutions were handled on a local governor level and usually passive, neighbors accusing neighbors. It was only in the 3rd century crisis that persecutions became Empire-wide.

Mandalore
11/9/2013 04:42:29 pm

Stupid autocorrect and lack of an edit button. Romans were paranoid. Why would that get changed to paramour? Do people use that word more?

Candice
12/30/2019 08:55:33 pm

The nephillim are vague in Genesis but the book of Enoch spells it out in detail.

There were giants and bones were found that prove this. But the nephellum were before AND after the flood. The nephillim have been reproducing ever since. Who was Goliath? Who were the Philistines? Why did 10 run over and 8 came back? because there were giants in the land.

You either believe the entire bible or none of it you cannot pick and choose what you think is correct like a coupon book and push a blasphemous false narrative.

The nephillim are also the gray aliens reptillians big foot and the mermaid.

Like in the days of lLot and Noah we are in those days.

Gunn
11/8/2013 01:00:12 pm

John Lennon said the Beatles were more popular than Jesus Christ, and he died young. Jesus is still alive. Imagine that.

Jason: "But as most biblical scholars recognize, the Satan of Job is not evil (or even the Devil as we have him today) but merely an angel doing the work of challenge that God created him to do."

Jason, you've got most Biblical scholars wrong. Biblical scholars generally do not recognize that the Satan of Job is not evil (or even the Devil as we have him today.) I don't know where you divined this from. God didn't create the Devil for doing the work of challenge. He uses him for challenge purposes, according to His will, but Satan did rebel against God out of pride, and he is evil. I don't see how you can say most Biblical scholars see him otherwise.

You see again that confusion comes when considering non-Biblical sources, Jason.

Charlie, how surprised you might be when the fairy story for you becomes oddly true. God is in complete control of his Book. People try to add to God's message for us today, but looking for answers outside the "official" God-sanctioned Book for us only causes confusion...like not knowing about the true nature of the Devil, the Christian's adversary.

Not believing in something doesn't make it not true, just as believing in something doesn't make it true. This is where faith comes in, my man, faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Jason brings up God and the Devil. Our sinful nature is examined. Yet the condition of our hearts is not a matter of DNA, it is a spiritual matter, having to do with our spirits, ultimately. That is not to say that fleshy natural desires can't be corruptible. Yes, the flesh does get in the way, which is why religious folks sometimes fast.

Our fallen condition, the death of humanity, a limited time of life on earth, has everything to do with not obeying God, in the beginning. God is for us, but we must obey him. Obedience is better than sacrifice.

The fool says in his heart, there is no God. Jason and Charlie, you've been served a warning. Will your heart grow harder or softer towards God? Ultimately, every knee will bow, or be destroyed. This is God's prerogative, as the Potter molds the clay, which is dirt, which is you and me, dust of the earth. Nothing. How dare we kiss the sky with arrogance? There will be no excuse. There is no excuse for kissing the sky this way.

Reply
Varika
11/8/2013 04:46:18 pm

Gunn, there IS a difference between "Biblical scholars" and "lay Christian majority." Biblical SCHOLARS do, as a whole, concur with Jason, while the majority of Christians who aren't scholars of the Bible but just read it once in a while and go to church on Sunday don't.

Also, just saying, your fire and brimstone crap is unjustifiable. You, sir, are violating your own faith's tenants in daring to judge where only God can. Look to your own sins before casting stones at others.

Gunn
11/9/2013 10:42:46 am

That's bologna. Just because you say something with caps doesn't mean its true. There is no need to separate scholars from the lay majority. And who is to say the scholars are right, if they don't believe in a literal, evil Devil. I would say Billy Graham is a scholar, and you can be sure he believes in a literal Devil. Most Christians do no (DO NOT) concur with Jason.

My fire and brimstone is intended for you too, Varika. If Jason can bring God and the Devil up in a public blog, I can certainly offset his skepticism and sarcasm with some rhetoric of my own. What, he gets to constantly bring up God, and slam Him, then if someone like me counters his foolishness, the response (not crap) is to you unjustifiable? I am not daring to violate my own faith's tenants, nor am I judging anyone. I'm telling it like it is.

Jason and others here bound for Hell are giving their wretched points of view, including yourself, and I am coming back to you with God's Word, which you cannot stand. I will look to my own sins and also cast stones of recrimination against those who rile against God Almighty, openly and shamelessly, on this blog.

Fire and brimstone is part of what you didn't sign up for, but what you will one day face. I am not the author of fire and brimstone, God is. As Creator, He can make and destroy anything He wants to. If Jason doesn't want to hear from the Amen Corner, he can wisely shut up when it comes to denigrating God. If he opens the subject up, it' fair game. If you don't like that, well, too bad.

I don't put a basket over my light for anybody, especially someone who repeatedly disses God. There's no reason for people to have to get mean and nasty and sarcastic with God on this blog. If they do, I will respond.

By Biblical standards, Varika, both you and Jason are FOOLS. (It must be true, because I put it in caps.)

Only Me
11/9/2013 11:42:26 am

Gunn, you can't say that Biblical scholars don't believe in a literal Devil...that is stating something about another's beliefs you're not privy to in absolute terms. I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but scholars look to the literary evolution of Satan as he has been introduced throughout Christianity's history.

Yes, in the original texts, he was created to be God's accuser, to reveal the sins a soul had committed in his/her lifetime. It fell to Jesus (or possibly a chosen angel, I can't remember precisely) to reveal those actions, generosity of spirit and moments of the heart that would allow the soul to be found worthy of Heaven. His role changed dramatically after his expulsion from Heaven, and he became the Adversary we are familiar with. The study and understanding of these changes to such a major character is what separates the scholar from the layman.

Gunn, you are guilty of judgment once again. You speak that Jason and others are Hellbound with certainty, something you *can not* and *do not* know...only God knows the ending to each individual's story. You call the same fools, and justify your declarations with "telling it like it is"; that is a judgment based on your own opinion. And Gunn, it will be said once again; this is not your blog. If you disagree with the content or policy, no one is forcing you to stay. You would accomplish much more if you simply told everyone you know to stay away from here, and to spread the word to others to do the same.

In closing, I hope you don't take this personally. I'm not here to expressly piss you off. But you do need to take a moment to realize that emotional and insulting responses fail to win hearts and minds. Don't fall into the stereotypical "nutjob" role that is accredited to those with faith. It makes it hard for others with faith, such as myself, to be taken seriously. Peace, Gunn, peace.

Shane Sullivan
11/9/2013 02:49:40 pm

Gunn, I don't really see this post as Jason "dissing" God. Infact, I don't think I've ever heard (or read) Jason say a single word against Christ, or Christianity.

I feel that that's especially so in this case, as Woodward and Marzulli are explicitly relying on information from Enoch and Jubilees, which you yourself have said should be disregarded, since they are not canon. It think Jason is calling out a couple of sanctimonious assholes for their bullshit when they've grossly misinterpreted the bible and tried to spread their own made-up subtext based on apocrypha that nobody believes in, not blaspheming against God.

I wouldn't take it personally.

Varika
11/9/2013 02:52:54 pm

Gunn. Jason is talking about Biblical scholars, not "most Christians." Of course it is important to make the distinction when most Christians are NOT Biblical scholars.

Responding to the rest of your temper tantrum is pointless. It was a worthless waste of time to read.

Jim
11/10/2013 02:33:55 am

Only Jimmi Hendrix can kiss the sky

Gunn
11/10/2013 03:55:54 am

Gunn, you can't say that Biblical scholars don't believe in a literal Devil.

Only Me, I'm not the one saying this, Jason is. Jason is saying Biblical scholars don't find the Devil real or evil, or dangerous.

Either you're confused (again), or too eager to attack.

In their present condition of soul and minds, these people are bound for Hell. Where is my judgment. Observing something obvious is not a judgment. Sometimes I don't understand where you're coming from, Only Me.

Only Me, people get angry when one tells them they are bound for Hell. Yet, the Bible describes the circumstances and who will go there very completely and accurately. It's all in there...right, nobody needs my opinion.

If I see someone attack God, I have a choice of going away or saying something. It is my nature to stay and say something, rather than let these precious souls perish, without adequate warning. I have been placed on this blog to give warning to those who would MOCK GOD. Actually, I don't have that much emotion going into this as one might suppose. My answers aren't emotional...they're measured carefully by every word I choose. I put in some caps to entertain Varika.

Perhaps you will recognize that Jason enjoys mocking the idea of God, and he probably smiles when people like you tickle his toes.

Peace back to you, Brother. I'm not mad. There's just some words that needed to be said, to clarify things. You should be aware that Jason likes to mock God and the idea of Christianity, that Jesus is alive today, etc. I stand by every word I've said, and you, Sir, are mistaken about a few things in your analysis. But I still love you and care about you, the same as with the others here. I'm telling these people they are bound for Hell out of love, not out of hate, as God is my witness. I have the capacity to constantly forgive people, even when they falsely accuse me.

No hard feelings, we have some good discussions when you don't get confused, or when Jason doesn't purposely diss God, my Friend, and stir up the attendant demons here, overlooking the situation. I plan to counter their intended evil here. I'm not going anywhere.

Only Me
11/10/2013 11:28:22 am

After taking time to digest your response, I've decided to clarify my position.

1) I'm not confused. The Satan of Job is not the same as the Satan that tried to tempt Christ during his fast. Satan's role in Job is to test Job's faith. He bet God that Job would not remain pious if God lifted his divine protection and allowed Job to endure a series of progressively worsening hardships. Job passed the test, *but*, he was reprimanded by God when he bemoaned his current fate. You must remember that much of how people view Satan has been influenced by fictional works, such as, Paradise Lost. Biblical scholars are aware of this; they know that to understand Satan, the figure, one must separate the fictional from the Biblical. That was Jason's point.

2) Jason references apocryphal texts, because they are the basis of the wonky hypothesis Marzulli and Woodward are teaching to others, and " who contend what we teach about the Nephilim is the correct biblical position – that the Nephilim were hybrid humanoids that infected humankind".

3) Judgment can be made on the basis of an opinion. When you say " In their present condition of soul and minds, these people are bound for Hell", that is an opinion...your opinion. I could just as easily declare you mentally unfit, but it would still be my opinion, as I don't have the training to make that observation credible. I'll say again...no one, not even you, can know another's fate. That is the purview of God. "Judge not, lest ye be judged yourselves".

3) My response to you was not an attack. It was an attempt to curtail comments before they devolved into character assassination from *anyone* jumping into the mix. I apologize if it seems that I singled you out. I have enjoyed our lengthy discussions, and relish the opportunity to do so again. I only ask that you don't automatically assume I'm "confused" if I arrive at a different conclusion than you, in regards to the subject at hand.

4) I understand that you perceive Jason as an attacker against God, but I don't share that perception. I have admitted more than once that I am a Christian, and not once has he taken me to task for it. Whatever his opinion, I can respect him for keeping it to himself and allowing me to continue to offer my input. I sincerely doubt I "tickle his toes", and if I do, that is something I really don't need to know

Let me finish by saying that there are no hard feelings on my end, too. I appreciate your passion, but others are not so encompassing. I really don't want things to spiral to the point that you feel persecuted or that anyone feels you should be removed. Forgive me for trying to maintain the peace the only way I can here...with, hopefully, calm and wise words.

Only Me
11/8/2013 09:59:47 am

This is the type of extremism that worries the hell out of me. I guess it doesn't occur to them that what they champion contradicts the message of salvation that Christianity offers.

"Sure, we all commit sin, but it's NOT OUR FAULT! Those evil fallen angels infected us with corrupted genes! If they had never come to Earth and been tempted by our women in the first place, this wouldn't be happening! Wait...".

I swear (trust me, I do...a lot more than I should), these guys are one step removed from the AA crowd...for more reasons than one.

Reply
Thane
11/8/2013 01:22:44 pm

Whenever I am confronted by someone claiming the Bible is infallible I ask, "Which one?" Which gets us into the discussion about the various versions of the Bible. I find that it's usually enough to find out who you can really have an open discussion with and who will dig their heels in and not either know that there are different versions of the Bible or simple refuse to acknowledge my question.

I was once chatting with a nice young woman who was praising a particular Bible Camp she attends. When I asked her to which denomination she belonged, she blinked and looked puzzled before she said, "Christain." I told her that I guessed as much but wanted to know which flavor of Christianity. She blinked twice and looked very confused. she was helped by her friend who prompted. "Protestant." With that settled, I explained that I guessed that as well but I wanted to know which version of Protestantism. This befuddled both and finally after I rattled off various forms of Protestantism, they settled upon, "Evangelical." However, it allowed me to educated them that there were many different Protestant sects and some brief history of the Reformation that they didn't seem to know anything about. I can only hope it will spur them to further investigate.

I don't mind that they believe what they believe but I think they should know something about the history of their faith and how it got to where it is today so they can make an informed decision about what they believe.

But when it comes to people who pull things out of whole cloth.....it makes you wonder if there isn't some mis-wiring/misfunction in the brain or if they are just opportunists trying to take advantage of the poorly educated and the gullible.

Reply
Gunn
11/8/2013 02:17:26 pm

Babies take baby steps. You have examined the reactions of a baby Christian. Are there fully mature, adult Christians, who are also highly intelligent? Of course.

Reply
Gunn
11/10/2013 04:02:53 am

Thane, what does it mean when one doesn't blink? Blink, blink.

Scott Lund
11/11/2013 07:24:34 pm

Gunn... When you say you are not judging and are just telling it like it really is, is not that the job description of a judge? Let me ask you this...If someone from here you claim not to judge is before God at their own judgement and you are off to the side awaiting your turn, would you still say what you said and tell it like it is if you witnessed something you did not agree with? To be a witness one can not also be the the judge


And in the last part of Matthew 5:22 my Bible says, "but whosoever shall say, "Thou fool", shall be in danger of hell fire", what does yours say?


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