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Erich von Däniken, Star of "Ancient Aliens," Claims in Newspaper Interview That the Media Won't Report Ancient Astronaut and UFO Evidence

5/30/2018

51 Comments

 
​I would be remiss if I did not note that the Discovery Networks, which recently purchased the Travel Channel, moved Expedition Unknown from Travel to the Discovery mothership. That’s about as far as my interest goes, however. I suppose it’s nice that Josh Gates has a bigger platform, but I hope that the parent network will keep a tighter leash on quality control and avoid the forays into ancient astronautics and guest spots from problematic figures like Brien Foerster that marred the show’s original Travel Channel run. 
​Anyway… I have been invited to write the cover feature for an upcoming issue of All About History magazine, but the deadline is rather short, and this will necessitate me taking some time off to work on the piece. I’m working out the details with All About History right now, but I imagine that over the next couple of weeks, I’ll need to cut down my blogging or take a week off while I write the article. I’ll post details as I figure them out. In the meantime, Erich von Däniken has some new things to say.
 
The Austrian newspaper Kronen Zeitung published a German-language interview with von Däniken earlier this month, and in it they asked him what the aliens really look like. “It is assumed that evolution has been different on planets other than ours,” he said, in my translation. “I always scoff and say, maybe they’re flying crocodiles or talking trees.” He then told the interviewer that the panspermia hypothesis suggests that aliens look like humans because Earth was seeded from the stars. He then cited the ancient epics of India as “proof” that space aliens visited the ancient Earth. He cited an unnamed passage from one epic about “three cities” floating through the sky and called the ancient texts “scientific information.” He asserted that the space aliens have already returned to Earth and are among us. He alleged that central European “journalists and scientists” have created a culture where belief in UFOs is heavily criticized and therefore Austrians, Germans, and Swiss are less likely to report UFO sightings than their American counterparts. What he really said is that in places where science and facts are still respected, people are less likely to indulge in open fantasy.
 
It’s a bit interesting to see how Däniken folds his political beliefs into his ancient astronaut theorizing. He is a longtime conservative, and as such, he tends to mirror the worst excesses of the rightwing fringe. Here, he was asked why space aliens don’t help us avoid the consequences of climate change, to stop humans from destroying the planet. Von Däniken denies that the planet is in trouble, or that aliens need to help. “We will not destroy the planet. We'll get it back. They do not help us any more than we help ants.” I can’t help but see in this an echo of Lovecraft’s summation (revised from E. Hoffman Price’s original) of the cosmic indifference of the space aliens: “He wondered at the vast conceit of those who had babbled of the malignant Ancient Ones, as if They could pause from their everlasting dreams to wreak a wrath upon mankind. As well, he thought, might a mammoth pause to visit frantic vengeance on an angleworm.” Von Däniken once denied ever having heard of Lovecraft, much less read him, but through cultural osmosis—and via the Lovecraft-influenced works he happily copied like Morning of the Magicians and the collected output of Peter Kolosimo—he absorbed enough.
 
But what was particularly disturbing is that von Däniken turned to Nazi-era propaganda to blame the media for suppressing the “truth” about aliens and ancient astronauts, invoking the infamous Nazi slander of the Lügenpresse—the “lying press”—in an attempt to discredit the media: “What I blame is the media: We don’t have a ‘lying press’; what we have is a ‘concealment-by-silence’ press.” Remember, Erich von Däniken is an executive producer of Ancient Aliens, broadcast around the world to an audience of tens of millions, and he made this claim in a newspaper. Even the newspaper reporter, Michael Pommer, recognized that this claim is ridiculous and challenged von Däniken in an extraordinary exchange:
POMMER: What is being concealed? I promise you that no government has asked us to conceal, let’s say, a UFO crash in Vienna.
 
EVD: Of course not. You want to be reasonable. And to be reasonable means that you do not deal with UFOs at all because you do not want to seem ridiculous. This is what I meant.
 
POMMER: The fact is, you have sold more than 73 million books worldwide. Now, again, there’s the conspiracy theory that you're just making it all up, for the sake of precious money.

EVD: The people who say that are [expletive]. I love skeptics. I like debating with them. They lose in any case. But such people do not know my books, nor have they ever spoken with me.
​Well, Erich, there’s a good reason for that. Since the 1970s, you’ve refused to debate or discuss with actual experts in any public setting. When I tried to get you to talk to me for my Cult of Alien Gods, your page-boy, Giorgio Tsoukalos, refused to pass along my interview request. When I shot Codes and Conspiracies with you a couple of years ago, you refused to be in the same place as the other talking heads, or to engage with the skeptics directly. In fact, you insisted that you would only answer questions in the back of a limousine while driving around so you didn’t have to take time out of your day, and you still got upset that the producers asked you mildly challenging questions that were much milder than any I might have for you. So, you might want to try looking in the mirror before complaining that skeptics won’t engage you. 
51 Comments
Cotton Mercer
5/30/2018 09:16:38 am

The media while bias in some ways would destroy any and all credibility if they published any of this man's rantings. Von Daniken's arrogance, his hubris shows every time he opens his mouth to speak.

Such contempt for ancient peoples that he and his ilk actually believe that ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Mesopotamians, and even the more modern Incas and Mayans were too stupid to build the pyramids, too ignorant to even fathom developing the techniques needed to create these marvels.

"Well we're really not sure how these ancient peoples could possibly build such buildings; they not being smart enough. It must be the aliens!"

Reply
E.P. Grondine
5/30/2018 02:16:19 pm

CM -

Anything these cretins do not understand is easily explained by them by the ancient aliens hypothesis. That hypothesis requires no heavy lifting, nor any understanding or knowledge of the ancient peoples, their cultures, or their technologies.

As a matter of fact, and real knowledge of those gets in their way. The hypothesis is fun and entertaining; all that it requires is being stupid enough to suspend disbelief to the point you can watch the shows.

Think of it as science fiction that requires an absolute ignorance of science. I will point out that the shows are a step up for many of them from theosophist cult archaeology.

Reply
Louis Philip
7/21/2018 03:28:20 pm

Apparently we are also too stupid to build them with all our modern technology !

Reply
Aaaa
5/30/2018 11:34:56 am

Should we call every leftist socialist a stalinist?

Reply
Americanegro
5/30/2018 11:54:38 am

Yes, or a Trotskyite but most people don't have that much nuance game. Since we call "someone we don't like" a "conservative" in what sense is Von Daniken "a conservative"?

Reply
Jason Colavito link
5/30/2018 12:02:22 pm

He literally calls himself a conservative. He advocates for rightwing causes, and he even offered to help bring UFO believers to the U.S. Republican Party.

Americanegro
5/30/2018 02:06:57 pm

The question stands. In what sense is he a "conservative"?

Machala
5/30/2018 05:02:58 pm

Good point, AN

I prefer Lenínist.But what's in a name ?
I am currently being accused of being a Morenisto ( Lenín Moreno ) for writing more favorably about him then some of his predecessor's followers on the left and most of his enemies on the right would like.
It is all to easy to brand anyone a liberal or a conservative, a communist or a fascist without a) knowing what the terms really mean - now what they've come to symbolize.
It's our human obsession with categorizing and labeling that causes so much misunderstanding. For example, if I say something critical about Isreal's treatment of Palestinians then automatically, I'm branded antisemitic, when in fact Semite by definition, is a member of any of various ancient and modern peoples originating in southwestern Asia, including the Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs.

EVD may or may not espouse ridiculous theories and bizarre conspiracy theories but I am loath to label him a fascist. I just consider him a delusional old crank, who is still trying to profit from his outdated, and discredited ideas that he plagiarized in the first place !

AAAA
5/30/2018 12:45:54 pm

Another possible label is cultural marxist, because instead of a proletariat all sorts of minorities have taken over as a revolutionary class and every culture is equal to every other to the neo-marxists.

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
5/30/2018 07:35:51 pm

Actually Conservatives are great at name-calling, and use words like that all the time. Example one, a book by Newt Gingrich, PhD:

https://www.amazon.com/Save-America-Stopping-Secular-Socialist-Machine/dp/1596985968

Here is a book by Michael Savage referring to liberals as mentally diseased:

https://www.amazon.com/Liberalism-Mental-Disorder-Michael-Savage/dp/1595550437

I also point to the Twitter feed of the President of the United States. I also point to Mr. Joe Scales's responses to me these past few months on this blog.

I also point to these two Supreme Court opinions by the conservative Justice Antonin Scalia, wherein Justice Scalia's thoughts consist largely of insulting his colleagues, and essentially leaves rational argument behind:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/97-1374.ZX.html

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/539/558/case.html

Conservatives are great at insulting. Over the years they've discovered that it gets them votes and other sorts of points, and is way easier to do than make an argument rationally. A sad, sad commentary on the intellectual state of my county.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Reply
Only Me
5/30/2018 08:27:58 pm

Liberals are also great at insulting. They, too have discovered it gets votes and is easier to do than make rational arguments. Both sides are covered in the mud they've slung at each other.

You can't point at one side and say, "Look how terrible they act!" and ignore the other if both are using the same tactics. Let's be honest about the sad, sad commentary.

An Anonymous Nerd
5/30/2018 10:02:52 pm

Sadly we're not as good at it. Note Hillary Clinton's failure to call out Donald Trump for his many, to put it mildly, excesses. She took the high road and lost. Donald Trump took the low road and won and continues to get good approval ratings from your side of the aisle. Here on this blog, not my refusal to return the insults of Mr. Joe Scales or, for that matter, you (granted, you were rather more subtle), or the fellow defending Frank Joseph on the other recent entry.

I'm sure some liberals do insult but not as well, not as often, and it's called out for being what it is when it occurs. Here's just one example: Hillary Clinton's long-ago remark about there being a "vast, right wing conspiracy" against her husband was decried at the time and continues to be decried, decades hence. I'm aware of no liberal who took up that as a rallying cry, yet am aware of many conservatives who continue to point to it, either in scorn of Mrs. Clinton or a proud re-appropriation of it. I've even seen it on bumper stickers.

The closest thing I'm aware of to the raw savagery of the books I highlighted are the books of Al Franken, which were intended as humor, whereas Gingrich and Savage intended their books as serious political commentary. Oh and note that Franken now-a-days is disowned by liberals, whereas Trump, who bragged about what he could get away with, is embraced by conservatives.

Some days I wish we were better at it, we might win more often.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Only Me
5/30/2018 10:24:05 pm

You find it insulting because I ask you to be honest about both sides using the same tactics? You admitted they do by saying, "Sadly, we're not as good at it." Now you're being dishonest. Here's some examples off the top of my head:

Joe Scarborough called Trump a goon and a thug.
Keith Olberman called Trump a white supremacist and Nazi.
Joy Reid called Trump a white supremacist.
Brian Stelter questioned Trump's mental fitness.
Hillary Clinton called those who supported Trump deplorables.
Chris Matthews compared the Trump family to the Mafia.
The media is trying to blame Roseanne Barr's racist tweet on Trump.
Joy Behar called Mike Pence's faith a mental illness.
Steven Colbert made a joke about Trump giving Putin a blowjob on his late-night show.
Michelle Wolf made offensive remarks about Sarah Huckabee-
Sanders at the last press corp dinner.

"I'm sure some liberals do insult but not as well, not as often, and it's called out for being what it is when it occurs."

Wrong. Like I said before, let's be honest about the sad, sad commentary.

An Anonymous Nerd
5/30/2018 10:52:39 pm

Well ok let's see here...

Curiously, I'm only aware of a limited number of the things you cite. Of those that I'm aware of, they are not accepted as mainstream views on my side, whereas what I cited very clearly are accepted as mainstream views on your side. And oh, by the way, of the ones that I'm aware of, your characterizations aren't necessarily accurate.

Let's take the "deplorables" remark. You characterize it as: "Hillary Clinton called those who supported Trump deplorables."

Is this an accurate description? Let's check.

http://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinton-basket-of-deplorables-transcript/

[[“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

She said the other half of Trump’s supporters “feel that the government has let them down” and are “desperate for change.”

“Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well,” she said.]]

Rather different from your characterization. She also has repudiated the remark, whereas Trump's Twitter feed, saying worse things constantly, continues unabated.

As to Michelle Wolf's White House Correspondents' Dinner remarks: These of course were intended as comedy and I guarantee you she'd have ridiculed whomever was in power similarly.

I recommend everyone watch it. It's great comedy. Here's a link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDbx1uArVOM

The remark was: " “She burns facts and she uses that ash to create a perfect smokey eye." You Conservatives chose to mis-characterize this as an offensive remark about the lady's appearance which it clearly was not.

You also say: "The media is trying to blame Roseanne Barr's racist tweet on Trump." My reply is: Huh? Does the media include Fox News and Alex Jones and The History Channel? Well yes it does but they're clearly not who you mean. You mean someone in particular and are choosing to express it as "the media," presumably in imitation of President Trump. The closest thing to this I've personally seen isn't about Ms. Barr's remarks in particular but an argument that the President's behavior has emboldened a certain section of the population. That analysis, doubtlessly, is accurate.

Now that I think about it, I do remember the Joy Behar thing, but again: No one takes her seriously as a political actor on the stage, and this remark pales before stuff said by the President of the United States. Those last five words, the actual Constitutional job of Donald Trump, deserve some reflection. These things aren't said by a comic, but the President.

We aren't as good at it. Some days I regret that.

I surely am not as good at it as you are, as I'm here trying to take this discussion seriously and back myself up with something other than anger.

*shrugs* Nothing will convince you, I know. You're not my audience.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Only Me
5/30/2018 11:24:27 pm

"I'm here trying to take this discussion seriously and back myself up with something other than anger."

I'm also taking the discussion seriously. I'm not angry, but good job mischaracterizing me. I gets that's easier than making a rational argument, huh?

"Of those that I'm aware of, they are not accepted as mainstream views on my side"

Except when they are repeated to support a narrative, right?

Calling half of Trump's supporters as deplorable is still calling his supporters deplorable.

Wolf's remarks were comedy? That's why there were people on your side that called her out for going too far?

No, I meant the media. There's such a thing as independent media, which can also have political bias.

"an argument that the President's behavior has emboldened a certain section of the population. That analysis, doubtlessly, is accurate."

No, it isn't. Van Jones went to the White House and worked closely with Jared Kushner and President Trump on a prison reform bill. Guess what? He was attacked by your side and called a sellout. There's plenty of blame to go around for our current political climate.

"These things aren't said by a comic, but the President."

But you downplayed Hillary's remark and those of the pundits I mentioned. Do they not also have influence?

"*shrugs* Nothing will convince you, I know. You're not my audience."

I don't need to be convinced of anything. I'm the one pointing out both sides are guilty of the same bad behavior, remember? You're right, I'm not your audience. I'm the guy that wants to have an honest discussion that acknowledges both sides of the aisle are too busy being vitriolic and hateful to actually sit down and listen. If that were to happen, a lot of good things could occur.

Shane Sullivan
5/30/2018 11:27:23 pm

Anonymous Nerd, if saying "there are people on your side of the political spectrum who aren't very nice", whether true or not, is insulting or angry, then you're doing the same thing. But I don't think either you or Only Me have said anything remotely insulting, and I'm perplexed as to why you bristle this way as though one of you has.

Only Me
5/30/2018 11:58:31 pm

Whoops! I meant to say "I guess", not "gets".

oops
5/31/2018 12:52:45 am

oops- you left out your agenda
keep feeling those rosary beads

V
6/3/2018 10:05:27 pm

Only Me:

1. Donald Trump has for MANY years exhibited a large number of characteristics of a white supremacist, including remarks that indicate that he believes ALL Hispanics are drug cartel members and rapists and that ALL people of Middle Eastern descent are Islamic terrorists. Calling him a white supremacist is not a gratuitous insult, it is a description of his own words and behaviors. If the description is insulting, perhaps you should consider that the man is, too.

2. Do you not believe that members of the KKK and other white supremacy groups are deplorable? I certainly do. Those groups were EXTREMELY vocal in their support of Trump, and Trump did nothing to distance himself from them. Insulting, yes, but also at least partially TRUE.

3. I also question Trump's mental fitness, not as an insult, but because some of the things he has said and done honestly do lead me to wonder if he is suffering from some sort of mental health disorder.

4. Several independent organizations, including the Southern Poverty Law Center, have collected very clear statistics that indicate that there has been a distinct and clear uptick in racism in the US since Trump became a viable candidate for office. Of course that racism existed before, but Trump has created an environment where racists feel more free to express their racism openly than they did before. It is entirely possible that Barr would not, in fact, have made that tweet if Trump had failed to make it into office, though that is purely speculative.

5. Are you referencing remarks that "Trump demands loyalty like a mafia boss"? If so, once again, Trump's own actions, the way he demands loyalty without question, and has--again--for YEARS AND YEARS, certainly have their similarities to Hollywood gangster bosses.

6. The vast majority of liberals neither endorse nor condone characterizing religion as a mental illness; most of them are just as Christian as most Conservatives. And many of them were also part of calling Joy Behar out for that remark, I might add.

7. Jokes about Trump having sexual relations with Putin are based on Trump's own seemingly slavish adoration of Putin, his utter refusal to see ANYTHING wrong with anything Putin does or says, in much the same way as a kid newly in love refuses to with the object of their adoration.

I could probably go on, but I don't feel like researching the rest of your claims. Besides, the pattern is already clear: we've got a case of Emperor's New Clothes here. Instead of considering the behavior of the person, conservatives seem to jump straight to "You're being insulting, you can't do that!" more often than not. Pretty much every insult that I see from self-professed conservatives is either an unwarranted personal attack--especially attacking the appearance of a woman without bothering to consider her words; for men it tends to be an attack on "manliness" instead of appearance, but still totally ignoring the content--or making wild accusations that can't be verified. The overwhelming majority of insults I see from self-professed liberals is based in something that the person being insulted has DONE. That even includes "OMG U R SO STUPID IF U BELIEVE THAT!" level crap.

Sure, political ads are nothing but slinging wild accusations at opponents these days, and that's annoying as fuck, but not one of your examples referenced a political ad. They all referenced insults where there is a verifiable basis for the insult.

I don't disagree that there's too much vitriol and insult and not enough honest debate--but how can there be honest debate when even someone who says he WANTS an honest discussion is pulling rhetorical tricks that have nothing to do with reason or logic? Example: "Calling half of Trump's supporters as deplorable is still calling his supporters deplorable." is a fallacy of reason, because 1. it is failing to admit that there might BE anything true in the statement, and 2. it is equating a specified PORTION of something with the whole. Example: "I'm also taking the discussion seriously. I'm not angry, but good job mischaracterizing me. I gets that's easier than making a rational argument, huh?" Making an emotional appeal and offering an insult are not reasoned or rational. Example: "No, it isn't. Van Jones went to the White House and worked closely with Jared Kushner and President Trump on a prison reform bill. Guess what? He was attacked by your side and called a sellout. There's plenty of blame to go around for our current political climate." is a false equivalency, because a prison reform bill is not explicitly racist or sexist statements--and neither is being called a sellout.

If you really are "the guy that wants to have an honest discussion" then please, follow your own advice: "actually sit down and listen." Your replies are not indicating you are doing that, they're indicating that you are stubbornly insisting on being right regardless of anything else. And that's on Y

Only Me
6/4/2018 04:29:48 am

I get it, V. There are people who hate Trump and their political opposition so irrationally, they can excuse any misbehavior on their side. I saw the same thing when Obama was president, but I never had to address it on this blog. It simply didn't come up.

And that's been my point. Despite your wall of text trying to further argue Nerd's position, I stand firmly behind that point. Neither side is better or worse than the other, no matter how badly you or anyone else wants to believe that. Maybe you should do a little more listening and less grandstanding.

Joe Scales
6/4/2018 10:09:09 am

I keep trying to tell you Only Me, that you can't argue with partisans. Not only are they poor sports, but with such sloppiness of thought as V so aptly displays above, with the pure ignorance of his/her willful mischaracterizations, you can only go nowhere. To top it off, they're also rather longwinded. Painfully so at that.

Elizabeth Stuart
6/10/2018 07:35:20 pm

Should I call every right wing idiot a Nazi? Nah..brain dead is good enough.

Reply
Bob Jase
5/30/2018 02:01:51 pm

Yes, the mainstream media is awful, that's why no one has ever heard of ancient aliens or Nibaru or Nephilim or bigfoot or ghosts or....

Reply
John Dunham link
5/30/2018 02:03:43 pm

Its one thing to question somebody's reasoning and theories - which is what you are so good at Jason.

Its quite another to question someone's political affiliation or belief.

There is nothing wrong with being a Progressive or a Conservative or anything else for that matter. Once you go off on that sort of tangent - Conservative Bad, Trump Bad, Likes Home Schools or Teachers Unions Bad, you begin to lose credibility for the good work that you are doing bringing to light all of the nonsense being promoted in the sake of "research" or "science."

Reply
Jason Colavito link
5/30/2018 02:53:35 pm

But his ideas are inseparable from his ideology. He himself said that he wrote his first book as a conservative rejoinder to what he saw as too much socialism in earlier ancient astronaut books.

Reply
John Dunham
5/30/2018 05:20:56 pm

His ideas about alien visits and the Egyptians being too stupid to stack rocks have absolutely nothing to do with conservatism.

I agree with you completely that you, this site, and anyone else should point out that EVDs ideas come from the Twilight Zone, or Pliny the Elder, or Stalin or whoever and that they make no sense, or that they are illogical.

Just like I attack Paul Krugman or Peter Navarro in my economics blog all the time because they say stupid unsupported economic stuff.

Attacking someone because they are Republican, or Libertarian, or Maoist has absolutely nothing to do with space aliens. We don't all have to believe the same thing politically to discuss xenoarchaeology or cryptozoology or whatever else.

Jason Colavito link
5/30/2018 06:17:50 pm

The problem, John, is that he invokes aliens to justify conservative social positions and he explicitly tried to tie ancient astronauts to anti-communist and anti-socialist positions. He writes about how the aliens plans include traditional gender roles, and how transgender individuals violate the aliens' plans, for example.

An Anonymous Nerd
5/30/2018 07:38:41 pm

The connection between the Right and the Fringe is really pretty obvious. I displayed it adequately in a series of replies here, beginning with the recent Knights Templar article.

These aren't just unsupported hypotheses about history, they are unsupported hypotheses about history that stem from and are in support of a certain ideology. Jason's demonstrated this adequately over the years. Politics isn't his focus but he shouldn't shrink back from it either. I'm glad he doesn't.

-An Anonymous Nerd

T. Franke link
5/31/2018 08:42:37 am

Jason, it is time to give some bibliographical data and page numbers to support your claims.

Erich von Däniken is known to tell a lot of things if the day is long. Maybe he said such things, maybe he also said the opposite of it some hours later. Maybe he later constructed a motivation he initially didn't have? It would really be interesting to know what he really said, and when, and in which context.

T. Franke link
6/1/2018 05:37:19 pm

Jason, meanwhile I found a blog post by you about racist statements by Erich von Däniken from 23 January 2014:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/the-astonishing-racial-claims-of-erich-von-daniken

Yes, these are at least dangerous ideas and questions, though not a fully-developed racism. It is difficult to judge whether these thoughts are deeply rooted in Däniken's mind, and there is a fully-grown ideology lurking in the dark, or whether these thoughts are just as superficial as so many other thoughts of Erich von Däniken. I tend to assume the latter. Is Däniken's mind set capable of building up something like a would-be coherent ideology? My guess is no. If he would be capable of such a feat, Däniken would recognize the many self-contradictions in his statements.

(Feeling uncomfortable with gender fanaticism as advocated e.g. by Judith Butler does not make you a right-wing extremist.)

T. Franke link
5/30/2018 03:37:51 pm

The "Lügenpresse" argument had been in use by all politicals sides in Germany, far-right as well as far-left.

There are photographies of German 1968 leftist rallies where demonstrators show the "Lügenpresse" argument on banners. Just search for pictures with "Lügenpresse 1968".

Not as a surprise, radical leftist burnt the expedition cars of Germany's largest tabloid editor in 1968 (BILD edited by Axel Springer).

And I doubt that Erich von Daeniken is correctly described by being conservative. He is an individualist, neither left nor right. A skeptic towards all sorts of ideology or religion or authority including state, or church, or academia.

Reply
E.P. Grondine
5/30/2018 03:49:27 pm

Jason, this is just an opinion here, but I think that until you understand the key role played by Augustus and Alice LePloneon in the development of Theosophy, I think it it likely that all of your efforts will meet with limited success.

Without them, there is and will be no focus to your efforts.

Good luck

Reply
Machala
5/30/2018 05:49:19 pm

Mr. Grondine,
If you are going to castigate Jason's lack of knowledge concerning Theosophist, at least spell the names of the authors correctly ! It's Augustus and Alice Le Plongeon.<P>
A good resource on them is Lawrence G. Desmond's book on the pair entitled: " A Dream of the Maya: Augustus and Alice Le Plongeon in Nineteenth-Century Yucatan "
https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Maya-Augustus-Plongeon-Nineteenth-Century/dp/0826310001

Reply
E.P. Grondine
5/30/2018 08:29:23 pm

Machala -

Since my stroke I make many typos. The source you mention is a good one, but it does not really get into how bad the LePlongeons were, as they needed/wanted to suck up to those who currently hold the LePlongeon's Mayan materials.

Ignatius Donnelly was really kind of peripheral to the cons operated by the Theosophists, while the LePLongeons were central to them. For details see:
http://www.danieljglenn.com/the_podcasts/Stelle/Documentation/He%20Walked%20Among%20Us%20Part%201.pdf

Jason gets scattered in his efforts, obscuring the central points with his inclusiveness of the vast amount of materials he is comfortable with. IMO, he needs to focus, and keep it simple.
Nail, meet hammer.

P.G. Grondine
5/30/2018 06:43:46 pm

Jason, when you talk about Theosophy, you need to do it my way. Otherwise it's just not right.

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
5/30/2018 07:40:37 pm

Congratulations on being commissioner for that piece.

Regarding EVD.....Given the mainstream success of Ancient Aliens and the mainstream success of the fringe generally in the Conservative media, I don't see how he rationally argues that ancient aliens type stuff isn't reported in the media. It's all around.

But then, of course, rationality is far from the point.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Reply
SDO
5/30/2018 10:10:59 pm

Jason,
I can save you some time and provide the next couple weeks worth of Ancient Aliens reviews for you.

"Segment 1 - recycled content from previous seasons.
Segment 2 - see Segment 1"

We used to watch the show Saturday mornings while we had breakfast for the entertainment value despite the risk of spilling hot coffee in our laps due to laughing so hard, but, thanks mostly to your reviews, we have given up as the repetition is too much to handle.

Reply
GNeve
5/31/2018 03:35:06 am

Jason,
I can agree with you that EvD & his sidekick Glorious Giorgio Tsoukalos, take the whole Acient Aliens thing up to a level of ridicule and speculations that is quite astounding.

But Brien Foerster should not be named as a pseudo crackpot. That man has dedicated far more time and effort in proper peer reviewed research, then any of us will ever achieve.

So my stance is the whole alien chapter can take a ride on Elons next launch vehicle. But the part of earlier advanced civilisations on earth, is a theory that is not outside the realm of possibilities.

The stonework @ Puma Punku, its surroundings and Baalbeck and some of Egypt as well, is just at such a scale of size and precision, that defies any current mainstream theory.

Why don't we just send in our best scientists and archaeologists to Puma Punku, and excavate the whole place as deep as possible. Because whats now on the surface, is just a glimmer of what lies beneath.

But it seems i'm the only one who's curious about that place, and amazed why nobody is digging there.....

Reply
Doc Rock
5/31/2018 12:14:51 pm

I believe there has been ongoing archaeological work at Puma Punku for quite some time. See, for example, the Tiwanaku Project. The findings of such work simply does not support fringe claims about the age of the site or the claims that the structures could not have been erected with the technology of the time. Pretty sure that some of this has also been discussed at length in the documentary Ancient Aliens De-Bunked.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe that Foerster has much of any record of legitimate published peer reviewed work.

Reply
GNeve link
5/31/2018 03:04:54 pm

Hi Doc Rock,
Yes i have seen the debunk video, and as i have said, there is a lot of shit to wade trough. But there is a reasonable amount of "rockhard evidence" of sawmarks glazing of rock/ altered consistency of the surface layer of these blocks, compared to the deeper inside of the blocks.

And what are these similar metal clamp joinings of stones & handbags that are carved on these deity statues all over the world... (gobekli tepe/puma punku/egypt)? exactly identical techniques and imagery... does that not make you curious in the faintest degree? Have you been to Peru / Bolivia to check it with your own eyes? I have... and it is really eye opening to see the scale and quality for yourself.

And really there are maybe a couple of students scratching around with a toothbrush @ Puma Punku.... that really doesn't get anything done there...

And i am not telling how old the stones at puma punku are... because you cant date the day alterations to stonework were made. But there are calculations made in regards to how deep the stone debris field is found @ puma punku. Its a region with very little to no rain erosion. So all the topsoil is deposited by wind and the occasional volcano. And then the +1.000 tonne stone blocks at baalbek? Not a crane in the world that can lift and move these with ease today.

Only Me
5/31/2018 03:49:50 pm

@GNEVE

>>And then the +1.000 tonne stone blocks at baalbek? Not a crane in the world that can lift and move these with ease today.<<

I give you the LR13000 crawler crane, with a lift capacity of 3,000 tons. In November 2010, it successfully lifted 3,371 tons.

https://gizmodo.com/5821046/worlds-strongest-crawler-crane-can-raise-the-roof--off-a-stadium

Americanegro
5/31/2018 04:43:36 pm

"Because whats now on the surface, is just a glimmer of what lies beneath."

AND YOU KNOW THAT HOW?

Reply
@GNeve
6/8/2018 03:02:05 am

There was a GPR scan made of the surrounding area. That place is littered with more artifacts and cavities / tunnels.

Carl Feagans link
6/10/2018 10:21:56 am

Citation? Source?

Doc Rock
5/31/2018 03:27:49 pm

I would suggest watching Ancient Aliens Debunked again and then read up on the actual work that has been done in that area by professional archaeologists like Yaeger, etc.

Looks like a tequila happy hour today.

Reply
Americanegro
5/31/2018 04:42:13 pm

Standard procedure for Captain Drinky-Poo of the S.S. Chug-a-Lug for any day ending in "y" or any month with letters in its name.

Reply
Kal
5/31/2018 05:42:10 pm

What EVD probably meant by his assertions is that 'his version of ancient aliens' is not peddled enough 'to suit him'. He is just not making as much money, now that it is trendy to talk about aliens. Even regular fake news shows bring it up, and it is 'all over the internet'.

Jason needs his own show on the not so historic history channel.

Reply
Purrl Gurrl
5/31/2018 06:47:10 pm

Okay, I gotta say it. I love Expedition Unknown. I don't believe anything pursued in the show is real.

But Gates goes to really cool places and he's a much less sour version of Anthony Bourdain. I find him entertaining.

Do I believe any of it? Nope. But how much of what's broadcast in any genre has much basis in reality?

Reply
zeek wolfe
6/1/2018 12:42:15 am

Remember one thing: Global warming is a hoax pushed by the Democrat Party USA as a vehicle to attain a socialist goal not unlike the defunct Soviet Union, Cuba and North Korea. Once you have that concept firmly in place, the rest becomes commentary.

Reply
Americanegro
6/1/2018 01:49:24 am

The question no one ever asks is "Is the current temperature or the current temperature minus whatever 'global warming' may have happened since an arbitrary starting point really the BEST temperature?"

Reply
Bold Gambit
6/7/2018 08:37:58 pm

The "three cities" from an Indian "epic" most probably refer to tripura (tri = three, pura = cities.) See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripura_(mythology)
It's a myth that appears in some Puranas.
Only one city was in the heaven, but that's irrelevant :-)
The myth is quite fantastical, no (reasonable) Indian would consider it history.

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      • Volumes 21-30 Archive >
        • Volume 21 Archive
        • Volume 22 Archive
    • Television Reviews >
      • Ancient Aliens Reviews
      • In Search of Aliens Reviews
      • America Unearthed
      • Pirate Treasure of the Knights Templar
      • Search for the Lost Giants
      • Forbidden History Reviews
      • Expedition Unknown Reviews
      • Legends of the Lost
      • Unexplained + Unexplored
      • Rob Riggle: Global Investigator
    • Book Reviews
    • Galleries >
      • Bad Archaeology
      • Ancient Civilizations >
        • Ancient Egypt
        • Ancient Greece
        • Ancient Near East
        • Ancient Americas
      • Supernatural History
      • Book Image Galleries
    • Videos
    • Collection: Ancient Alien Fraud >
      • Chariots of the Gods at 50
      • Secret History of Ancient Astronauts
      • Of Atlantis and Aliens
      • Aliens and Ancient Texts
      • Profiles in Ancient Astronautics >
        • Erich von Däniken
        • Robert Temple
        • Giorgio Tsoukalos
        • David Childress
      • Blunders in the Sky
      • The Case of the False Quotes
      • Alternative Authors' Quote Fraud
      • David Childress & the Aliens
      • Faking Ancient Art in Uzbekistan
      • Intimations of Persecution
      • Zecharia Sitchin's World
      • Jesus' Alien Ancestors?
      • Extraterrestrial Evolution?
    • Collection: Skeptic Magazine >
      • America Before Review
      • Native American Discovery of Europe
      • Interview: Scott Sigler
      • Golden Fleeced
      • Oh the Horror
      • Discovery of America
      • Supernatural Television
      • Review of Civilization One
      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
      • Charioteer of the Gods
    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
      • The China Syndrome
      • Atlantis, Mu, and the Maya
      • Easter Island Exposed
      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
      • Lovecraft in Bergier
      • Lovecraft and Scientology
    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
      • Aliens and Anal Probes
      • Ultra-Terrestrials and UFOs
      • Rebels, Queers, and Aliens
    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
    • The Curse of the Pharaohs
    • The Antediluvian Pyramid Myth
    • Whitewashing American Prehistory
    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
      • Ancient Texts >
        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Atrahasis Epic
          • Epic of Gilgamesh
          • Kutha Creation Legend
          • Babylonian Creation Myth
          • Descent of Ishtar
          • Berossus
          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
          • Dream Stela of Thutmose IV
          • The Papyrus of Ani
          • Classical Accounts of the Pyramids
          • Inventory Stela
          • Manetho
          • Eratosthenes' King List
          • The Story of Setna
          • Leon of Pella
          • Diodorus on Egyptian History
          • On Isis and Osiris
          • Famine Stela
          • Old Egyptian Chronicle
          • The Book of Sothis
          • Horapollo
          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
          • The Asclepius
          • The Emerald Tablet
          • Hermetic Fragments
          • Prologue to the Kyranides
          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
        • Ctesias' Indica
        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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