"Europe Unearthed" (Parody): Secret Quetzalcoatl Bloodline Pineapple Cult Rules Europe
Apparently the most controversial thing I have ever written is the suggestion that America Unearthed is making use of nineteenth century imperialist and colonialist propaganda without recognizing the cultural and racial origins of the claims, specifically their origin in the Euro-American effort to obtain lands once held by Native Americans. This had led to accusations that I am “race-baiting” or otherwise obsessed with race.
I think that a thought experiment is in order, and I hope it will help readers to understand why the appropriation of Native American cultures and accomplishments in service of a Eurocentric narrative is an insult not just to Native Americans but to history itself. So, I am asking you to suspend your disbelief for a moment and put yourself in the position of someone tuning in to watch a show very much like America Unearthed, but just a little…different.
To perform this thought experiment, I will use only fringe history claims that have been advocated by fringe history writers, but I will draw different conclusions from them. Again, let me repeat: All of the following “evidence” is drawn directly from fringe history writers’ works. Please note that I do not believe any of the claims, and many are intentionally misleading or incomplete, as is typical of fringe history. I hope that in suspending disbelief for a few minutes you will be offended and insulted by at least some of the fictitious claims below and thus see why cultural appropriation is so troubling.
For our thought experiment, let’s imagine a fictional television show that could never be broadcast on a cable television channel aimed at upscale American audiences. Let’s call it Europe Unearthed, and let’s see what’s on today’s show:
German-Gallic border, 60 BCE. From a storm-tossed ocean, a canoe washes ashore. Contained within are two Native Americans. Stunned Romans in togas look on as the Native Americans attempt to communicate with the strange, primitive native people of Europe. The Romans, in their ignorance, assume these men are from India and rush to their leader to tell great tales of the amazing teachers who have come from the sea.
There is a hidden history on this continent. There are longhouses, petroglyphs, cliff-dwellings, and pyramids. They’re all over this continent. We’re going to investigate these artifacts and sites, and we’re going to get to the truth. Sometimes history isn’t what we’ve been told.
The history books we all grew up with tell us that European history is the story of a people in isolation, Europeans who built the Roman and medieval civilizations without ever meeting anyone from the New World. But I think the academics are wrong, and I think they’re covering up a big secret, one that reveals the true history of Europe.
According to conventional history, the Roman Empire fell because of a combination of religious revolution brought on by Christians and invasion from mysterious peoples from beyond the empire’s borders. Historians call these people “barbarians,” but no one really know exactly who they were or where they came from. In 500 CE, Teotihuacan in Mexico was the largest, most prosperous city in the world and the only power rich enough to seriously rival Rome, but mainstream historians want us to believe that backward native peoples of Eastern Europe somehow managed to destroy the Roman Empire.
I believe that there is a hidden history centered on a class of itinerant Native American merchant-warriors called pochteca who came to this continent repeatedly and did so to escape persecution at home and to protect a great secret: the divine bloodline of the god Quetzalcoatl.
My quest takes me from Gaul in the north to Pompeii in the south and across the face of Roman and medieval Europe in search of the secret society of pochteca, and the earlier proto-pochteca, as well as what I believe was a militant side-order or pochteca who intermarried with European nobility in order to gain control over Europe and make a major land claim to most of what is today Western Europe.
My journey starts in France, on what is today the Belgian border, where in 60 BCE two Native Americans may have come ashore and met with the Roman proconsul Quintus Caecilius Metellus Celer, as reported in Pliny the Elder (Natural History 2.67) and Pomponius Mela (De situ orbis 3.45). Although both authors identify these men as being from India, a secret stream of knowledge known only to high ranking elites proves that these were in fact people from America. The Spanish historian Francisco López de Gómara tells us that the men in fact came from Newfoundland or Labrador (Historia general de las Indias, ch. 10), the obvious last port of call for Mesoamerican merchants en route to Europe.
That makes them part of a continent-wide order of religious specialists from the New World that I believe infiltrated and took over the Aztec long-distant merchants, the pochteca, a group that was very wealthy and threatened the livelihood of the Aztec emperors. This itinerant class of merchants weren’t just businessmen: they were also a military order. They were entrusted with the secret communications of the Aztec emperors as well as with serving as spies around the world. This made them very rich. But because they weren’t of noble blood, they had to hide their wealth lest the aristocracy persecute them, just as they did Quetzalcoatl. This gave them every reason to seek out new lands where they could live free from persecution.
And wherever they went, they served a secret god, Yacatecuhtli, an occult form of Quetzalcoatl. This god’s symbol was a bunch of sticks, almost certainly the inspiration for the Roman fasces. Wherever you look in Europe, you find bunches of sticks, and this is clear proof that the pochteca and their worship of Quetzalcoatl continues in Europe today. I believe the pochteca came to this continent to practice their religion—and to protect the descendants of Quetzalcoatl.
Another symbol, besides the bundle of sticks, that announces the presence of the pochteca is the pineapple. At the House of the Ephebe in Pompeii, we find on a mural a picture of what looks like a pineapple, a fruit native to South America and accessible only to warrior-merchants like the pochteca. Is it a coincidence that by the eighteenth century, doorways of elite houses often featured carved images of the pineapple? Or that at the feasts of European nobles the pineapple was literally placed at the center of the table, symbolizing the central role of the pochteca cult? In fact, the pineapple was such an important symbol of the occult power or the Quetzalcoatl cult that European elites posed for portraits receiving this rare and symbolic fruit. Here is Britain’s King Charles II announcing his Quetzalcoatl cult indoctrination with a pineapple in the late 1600s:
And here is a cult building in Edinburgh:
But while the evidence I’ve seen has me convinced that the pochteca were active in medieval Europe and probably inspired the Knights Templar—another rich order or merchant-warriors—I want to know more about what came earlier. And I think mythology can help us out.
I turned to the stories of Quetzalcoatl, and I was amazed at the similarity between Quetzalcoatl and Jesus Christ. In fact, there are so many similarities that everyone from the Mormon Church to respected ancient astronaut theorists agrees that the two must have been one and the same. Both were born of virgins, were kind and gentle, performed miracles, tried to end blood sacrifices, prophesied the future, sent out disciples, suffered persecution, and were the one and only God (Sahagún, Historia General de Las Cosas de Nueva España, 10.29; Torquemada, Monarchia Indiana 6.24). Interestingly, Quetzalcoatl wore a white robe with a red cross on it, just like the robes adopted later by the Knights Templar (Torquemada 6.24).
There was also a belief that Quetzalcoatl was a god in the sky as well as a physical man on the earth, just as in the doctrine of God the Father and God the Son.
We further read that Quetzalcoatl, after his persecution, boarded a ship and sailed away to the east. Since the oldest evidence of Quetzalcoatl dates back to the Teotihuacan period, around the first century BCE, this is strong evidence that the followers of Quetzalcoatl went with him to Europe and then to Palestine, where the ignorant natives of the Roman Empire began worshiping him not just as a great teacher but as the Christ. His secret name, Yacatecuhtli, could easily be corrupted from Yaca to Yesa to Jesus by those unfamiliar with Mesoamerican languages.
Remember that Augustus Le Plongeon and the Mayan scholar Don Antonio Batres Jauregui (as well as the chronicler of Mu, Col. James Churchward) confirmed that “Jesus” spoke an old form of Mayan on the cross, a clear bit of evidence that he is simply a version of Quetzalcoatl!
But what I’m interested in is what became of the Holy Bloodline, the lineal descendants of Quetzalcoatl.
It’s not possible to know, of course, whether the Native Americans who arrived in Gaul in 60 BCE were part of Quetzalcoatl’s party, or whether they were simply paving the way for what was to come later. I believe they were coming to assert a land claim to Europe, which in their culture involved visiting a land and instituting trade relations, something Pliny and Mela assert that they did. But it’s certain that Quetzalcoatl was simply the most important figure in a long bloodline of secret societies stretching back to the ancient Olmec, the originators of the religious system we now call “Egyptian,” who came to Africa around 2500 BCE, taught the Egyptians to build pyramids, and carved the Sphinx in their image.
The evidence is everywhere. Everyone knows that the Midéwin rituals of the Ojibwa are suspiciously similar to those of Freemasonry. As the Freemasons themselves explained in 1922, Native Americans across the continent have rituals and rites that are of various degrees of similarity to Masonry, with the rites becoming more primitive as we look farther back in time. By contrast, Masonry appeared all at once and fully formed in Europe, around 1700. The obvious conclusion is that Freemasonry is an import of ancient proto-Midéwin rituals associated with the traveling pochteca, and deep within Masonry lies the truth about the lost descendants of Quetzalcoatl. Could this be the real truth cloaked beneath Masonry’s alleged “secrets”?
Consider this: At Kinver’s Edge in Britain, rural farmers started to carve cliff dwellings that bear a suspicious similarity to the somewhat earlier cliff dwellings of the Ancestral Pueblo (Anasazi) in New Mexico and Arizona—people believed by Prof. Cyclone Covey to have been affiliated with or dominated by the empire of the Toltecs, the ancestors of the Aztecs, if we can believe the tales told on the Tucson Lead Artifacts, which describe interactions with Toltezus, i.e. the Toltecs. If this is true, then the colony of Europeans the proto-pochteca brought back with them from Europe in the 700s is only part of the story. By the time the Toltecs had given way to the Aztecs in the 1200s, the European colony in Arizona had been indoctrinated in the cult of Quetzalcoatl and sent back to Europe to teach the British how to build their own cliff dwellings and worship the feathered serpent.
All of this is fascinating, but we haven’t yet found the descendants of Quetzalcoatl.
To do that, we need to turn to the European legends of brown or dark-skinned people hiding in plain sight, people who must be the descendants of the pochteca who came to Europe and ruled over the native white people as a dominant military force and as gods. The Irish have legends recorded in the Lebor Gabála Érenn that speak of invaders coming from another land, and in Ireland we find an unusual tribe of Black Irish, whom travelers say have black hair, brown eyes, and brownish skin—remnants of a proto-pochteca colony? Could the Black Irish be the last of the pochteca who were sent to make a land claim to Europe and either “went native” or got stuck in a primitive, medieval island? Why is the European Union conspiring to cover up the truth about the real origins of this mysterious, obviously genetically Native American tribe?
And what of the “barbarians” who conquered the Roman Empire? When we listen to the description of Attila the Hun given by Jordanes in the Gothic History, we see a clear picture of a typical Teotihuacan noble: “Short of stature, with a broad chest and a large head; his eyes were small, his beard thin and sprinkled with grey; and he had a flat nose and tanned skin, showing evidence of his origin” (35). Dark skin? Little facial hair? A flat nose? These racial characteristics are identical to the Olmec stone heads, Toltec statues, and Aztec drawings. Attila had to be a proto-pochtecatl re-asserting the Quetzalcoatl cult’s land claim to northern and western Europe.
Quetzalcoatl was said to have become a star, and this can only refer to the use of archaeoastronomy to navigate to Europe by the stars.
The barbarian leadership were obviously pocheteca or proto-pochteca or a side-order of pochteca privy to the secret form of Quetzalcoatl. They came to Europe to assert their land claims and to protect the descendants of Quetzalcoatl, the holy man who had long ago been turned into the indigenous god Jesus and worshiped in his stead. The barbarians were universally called heretics because they followed “Arianism,” a heresy that said that Jesus was subordinate to the Father. Was this merely a memory of the fact that Quetzalcoatl was the dual name of both the supreme god and also the holy human who escaped to Europe? Some say that the barbarians who inherited Europe from Rome were in fact part of the Quetzalcoatl bloodline, and that his secret is something they are willing to use the full force of government to suppress.
Academics and historians don’t want you to know the truth about Europe, but finally it’s all coming together: For hundreds or even thousands of years followers of Quetzalcoatl have been coming to Europe and guiding its leaders in secret. Europeans today worship Jesus and conduct rituals and rites that they don’t realize originated with the powerful cult of Quetzalcoatl, and their leaders are lineal descendants of Quetzalcoatl.
* * *
What did you think reading that? Did you feel a weird sense of dislocation because the typical power structure of fringe history (Europeans conquer non-Europeans) was reversed? Did you feel uneasy about being told that your history is not your own, or that you are worshiping a fake god? Or did you simply treat this as a load of crap because it was so at odds with historical fact that you couldn’t take it seriously? Do you think for a moment that television would serious consider airing such a program?
Now imagine that someone was on TV telling you every week that you are the passive recipient of a secondhand culture misunderstood and bungled from the really interesting people across the sea.
* * *
Almost everything I used above is from actual fringe history sources.
Second, I made up the claim about Attila the Hun, which I modeled on Frederick J. Pohl’s claims about the Micmac culture hero and god Glooscap “really” being Henry I Sinclair, Earl of Orkney, based on allegations about his appearance and travels. I used a bit of this for the Jesus claims, too.
Amazing, is it not, how different the claims seem when we reverse the alleged flow of cultural influence and make Europeans the recipients of cultural imperialism.
12/18/2013 12:38:39 pm
Jason's race-hater-enabling blog -
12/18/2013 12:56:22 pm
It is not nice of you not to inform readers that you are Steve St. Clair, and many probably think you are just some angry kook. I, on the other hand, had administrator rights and know who posts here. I think I've been fairly generous in giving you wide berth, but you seem intent on spewing your own hatred while cowering behind a shield of anonymity.
12/18/2013 01:00:34 pm
I am curious whether you consider it right to blame the teacher when their students take their ideas in negative directions they did not intend? Would you have voted to convict Socrates for the crimes of his students like Alcibiades as the Athenians did? And the personal attacks only serve to undercut your point.
12/18/2013 01:02:06 pm
My questions were for Steve.
12/19/2013 10:04:17 am
12/19/2013 03:12:37 pm
Will, your comment has really moved the ball down the field. Thanks so much.
12/18/2013 02:21:13 pm
You said the following, Jason - "There is a difference between setting out to purposely denigrate Native Americans and unconsciously, through one's own biases and prejudices, producing work that is functionally racist."
12/18/2013 03:24:09 pm
Steve, you seem to have a fairly common failing here, in that you seem to be unable to differentiate between a body of work and the author of such work. The BODY OF WORK that Wolter has created is racist, despite the fact that Wolter is not. I would blame your education, since education is woefully short on differentiating these things for kids, but in your case, I don't think I will cut you that slack. Why? Because you are accusing others of hate by spewing such nasty hate-filled rhetoric I can only call you a hypocrite.
12/18/2013 03:45:33 pm
Thanks so much for your opinion Varika.
12/18/2013 10:45:14 pm
Steve, did it occur to you that I have been talking about "America Unearthed" because it is currently airing new episodes? Or that for most of the past six months, I've said very little except when Scott Wolter released his new book?
12/19/2013 01:37:28 am
Compelling: evoking interest, attention, or admiration in a powerfully irresistible way.
12/19/2013 01:52:32 am
Oh, no. It's really quite complex jealousy. You see, it started when the Holy Bloodline conspiracy asked me to oppose Scott Wolter to help cover up the true history of North America. I am my fellow conspirators gathered over Oreo cookies and the menstrual blood of Anunnaki star children in order to plot how best to defend academic dogma.
12/19/2013 05:07:38 am
Very cute answer Jason. But you ducked the real question, so I'll restate it here so your fans can see if you answer it or find another way to duck it.
12/19/2013 05:31:18 am
I will use small words so you can understand, Steve:
12/19/2013 10:17:23 am
Steve is like the best comment feed troll ever to exist on the Internet.
12/19/2013 03:15:03 pm
I'm truly honored, Will. Truly, I am.
1/13/2014 01:41:41 pm
"1. His highly scientific work on the Kensington Runestone."
8/11/2014 04:40:44 am
Question where does everyone get there information as it astounds me some of the things ppl wrote
11/13/2019 11:44:09 pm
Not bad man, not bad at all, check the starbucks logo from 1971 and flip it upside down, youre absolutely correct sir, and im black...you are not racist i can tell, not even remotely
12/18/2013 09:43:23 am
And yet this theory still isn't as ridiculous as the current incarnation of Gavin Menzies' "China colonized North America by sea in prehistory, then rediscovered America and launched the Renaissance in Europe" theory.
12/18/2013 09:48:16 am
It's interesting that Gavin Menzies received international media attention and a lavish documentary series for his claim that the Chinese reached North America before Columbus, but when he claimed they came to Europe and kick-started the Renaissance, suddenly he was "mad as a snake" and "unrelentingly silly." (He always was, of course.) It's one thing to talk about colonizing Native Americans, but something else entirely to speak about influencing Europe.
12/18/2013 10:11:59 am
The Chinese were also the first to land on the Moon after discovering America, of course
12/18/2013 09:51:23 am
I do so love these parodies of yours.
12/18/2013 09:53:53 am
And Psych's James Roday is of Mexican heritage, so he is clearly part of the Quetzalcoatl bloodline pineapple conspiracy.
12/18/2013 10:58:28 am
Mr. Colavito, we would like to speak to you about producing this material for our channel --- oh wait, you were joking? Forget about it.
12/18/2013 11:24:42 am
Well, at least now we can see where you're stuck at. I guess you see Wolter as taking possession of Native American cultures and accomplishments, this "cultural appropriation" you speak of. I'm not sure I understand how you are using the word "appropriation" otherwise. Is this correct? Or are you using the word in another way? If so, please explain.
12/18/2013 11:49:47 am
So, what you're saying is that you didn't get the point of the parody at all, which isn't to attack Scott Wolter (indeed, you should note I name check Cyclone Covey, Frederick J. Pohl, and several others) but to try to prompt thought about how fringe history claims (which, let's remember, are *wrong*, which is why they aren't "history") to prompt some reflection on how these ideas are perceived by the people on the receiving end of their claims.
12/18/2013 12:23:51 pm
I think you've made an exceptional effort in trying to help people understand the racism behind these programs. At some point you have to give up and allow those folks to to blissful in their ignorance.
12/18/2013 12:37:30 pm
I'm thinking this will probably be my last word on the subject for a while unless it's directly relevant to an episode. I'll be able to just link back here when needed.
12/18/2013 12:49:46 pm
You're so very clever, Dave.
12/25/2013 05:19:25 am
Will, I guess Gunn took offense that you named Steve feed troll of the year. I have to agree with Gunn, he is the true feed troll.
David Hatcher Childress
12/18/2013 12:08:21 pm
The above report which Jason Colavito represents as a parody is the subject of my soon to be released book Pineapples of the Gods.
12/18/2013 12:17:05 pm
David Hatcher Childress stole the ideas for Pineapples of the Gods from me, post mortem.
12/18/2013 12:27:05 pm
Watch for "Europe Unearthed" on H2 in late 2014!
12/18/2013 12:35:02 pm
It's probably legally important that I point out here that the above comments are parodies (not by me) and are not written or endorsed by the individuals named above.
Rev. Gil Photsch
12/18/2013 12:13:51 pm
12/18/2013 12:56:19 pm
Watching all pf this escalate over the last few days has been quite enlightening. I think Jason has clearly explained how fringe 'researchers' uncritically rely on old sources that themselves reflect racist attitudes of their day. I suspect that this is because those old sources did not have modern historical methodology that has discounted so many of their assumptions, including eurocentrism. That being said, given the quality of some posts lately I do not think there is any betting through to people who refuse to consider anything beyond their own preconceived notions. How odd that actual historians encourage the exploration of new ideas while those that attack academia are so close minded.
12/18/2013 01:01:44 pm
Thank you, Mandalore. I am astonished at the vehemence of the Scott Wolter hero-worshippers. Giorgio Tsoukalos, who has much more reason to hate me in that we have actually met and had in-person confrontations, and about whom I've written much more--and more negatively, has been a positive gentleman by comparison.
12/19/2013 03:38:33 am
Giorgio probably lives by that P. T. Barnum axiom about suckers and birthrates not to feel threatened from geniune science.
12/19/2013 12:50:46 pm
I am highly insulted! I have many more hero worshipers than Scott Wolter.
12/20/2013 05:04:45 am
Oh man how can you NOT see that guy as a hero? Did you SEE how he drove that bulldozer? And that time he dug that other hole with a shovel? I mean, he is clearly everything a man wants to be! I know because the show takes such pains to make that point clear to me every episode.
"How odd that actual historians encourage the exploration of new ideas while those that attack academia are so close minded."
12/19/2013 08:15:59 am
Such personal attacks are unbecoming and have no place in a supposedly adult venue.
12/19/2013 02:54:50 pm
I would be one of those who is close minded, according to you, because I sometimes attack academia. Yours can easily be construed as a comment to someone exactly like me...which is why and how it is easy to see that you, yourself, are the one who involved yourself in a personal attack here. I agree that they have no place here...so don't do it. Don't say questioning people are close-minded. Here, if you throw a stone, you might get one back, which is certainly fair and to be expected.
12/19/2013 03:00:16 pm
For clarity's sake: Don't say "questioning people" are close-minded...in other words, inquisitive people, those who don't automatically take the academics at their word.
12/18/2013 01:45:12 pm
What a great piece Jason. Expand on it and you have a great work of fiction....
12/18/2013 01:49:09 pm
I loving this reversal. Only thing that makes this not a perfect analogue is that your fiction was better researched. And it doesn't mention Oreos. We need an Olmec-Oreo conspiracy!
12/19/2013 08:55:38 pm
It's not that hard to see the Conspiracy. after all, the Mayan calender is what shape? Oh, that's right... it's a circle, JUST LIKE OREOS. Boom. Conspiracy.
12/18/2013 02:43:41 pm
This is a brilliant satirical story that I found extremely entertaining. I think it would be even funnier if you submitted the theory to one of those fringe websites under a nom de plume. You might get some true believers to your new “theory”
12/18/2013 02:55:13 pm
12/18/2013 07:52:18 pm
Too much nonsense here about so-called "racism" - there is something known as common sense knowledge.
7/24/2017 03:14:43 am
That's true, The Native American Cultures must be superior, since both black and white people keep trying to steal their civilizations for their own race.
12/18/2013 03:30:11 pm
You know, Jason, you might be on to something. Attila was blood thirsty and greedy, yet he reportedly left Italy at Pope Leo I's request. Makes sense if they were both Quetzalcoatl worshipers. All hail our Tolmec overlords!
12/18/2013 05:55:20 pm
You've done it. Conspiracy proven. The Native Americans are trying to dominate whites and are literally squeezing us between them. And to show how twisted the scheme is, you are supposed to twist off the Oreo top. Their message, it's hiding in plain sight. Wake up, people!
12/19/2013 02:47:56 am
I for one welcome our new Amerindian overlords and have been brushing up on my Lenape.
12/18/2013 03:31:10 pm
You know, I think this should actually cause us all to cur Megyn Kelly a little break on her comments about Santa. (Not about Jesus, though.) Santa is a creation of European culture, and Western European culture, at that, even if transplanted into North America, and the suggestion that this cultural invention should be taken away and turned into something else entirely because another group of people doesn't like it can and clearly has evoked precisely the reaction you intended this piece to evoke--that knee-jerk "HE IS OURS, STEP OFF!" reaction.
12/19/2013 02:57:28 am
How you say something can be as important as what you say. She wasn't coming from an argument of history and culture, but of anti political correctness. There have been black Santas in black neighborhoods for decades and she just approached the whole idea of Santas skin tone like an ass.
12/19/2013 04:30:22 pm
Oh, I agree that what she said was out of line because of the way she said it. I just think that we should maybe give her a LITTLE slack. Recognize, perhaps, that while she might not have been educated about it, she was coming from a defensive position of having her culture attacked, not from a place of COMPLETELY unreasonable bigotry. Again, at least on the Santa front. On the Jesus front is frankly unacceptable levels of ignorance and bigotry.
12/20/2013 12:31:00 pm
I hate to stir the pot, but Jesus most likely did fit at least the US Census Bureau's (unscientific) definition of "white," that is:
12/18/2013 06:24:26 pm
Well...I think I've found the backstory for my next GURPS campaign.
12/18/2013 09:56:04 pm
I give it a Hite rating of .70.
12/19/2013 03:18:44 am
I for one find the parodies more thoroughly researched and entertaining than the shows they're parodying. The information may be made up and meant for some laughs, but at least at the end Jason's giving all his sources and coming clean on the origin and motivation of the claims being presented.
Jason says, above: "...fringe history claims (which, let's remember, are *wrong*, which is why they aren't "history")...."
12/19/2013 06:05:35 am
What exactly do you think the KRS would change? It would show nothing more than that a few Norse penetrated a bit farther inland a bit later than history already knows happened at L'Anse-aux-Meadows. I can't image how you would think my coverage of fringe history has anything to do with Wolter's work on the KRS, which occurred in 2001, and which never crossed my radar until I read his article on the Bat Creek Stone in 2012.
12/19/2013 06:27:13 am
"I can't image how you would think my coverage of fringe history has anything to do with Wolter's work on the KRS,"
12/19/2013 06:35:41 am
In short, you pick and choose the claims that best fit your own preconceived, rigid notions. What about the "glory" of the Polynesians who reached South America centuries earlier? Don't they count?
12/19/2013 06:47:17 am
I'm surprised you would answer this way, as it comes across as yet another casual racially inspired response. Glory should go anywhere it is deserved. We are still looking around to pass out some accolades and honors. Wolter shouldn't be the fall-guy for looking around.
12/19/2013 06:51:19 am
It's not a "threat" is the point I'm making, Gunn. Archaeologists have no problem with Polynesians arriving in South America because there is evidence for it. Ditto the Vikings in Canada. Similarly, archaeologists would have no problem with Scandinavians in Minnesota should better evidence show up. The problem isn't the "threat," it's the poor quality of evidence.
12/19/2013 07:09:17 am
"The problem isn't the "threat," it's the poor quality of evidence."
12/19/2013 07:12:45 am
So what standard of evidence do you propose to use? Archaeology has its standards, and the KRS (and more importantly its context) fails to meet them. You are proposing a "new" science? Or do you want just one exception, for the KRS?
Yes, yes...I would like an exception, especially since a host of "academics" seem unwilling to actually look at and judge correctly what the KRS is all about. It is the same in other, non-academic places, such as Wikipedia, which is completely slanted and incomplete. Certain people are trying to undermine the value of the KRS, I think including you. Wolter is tied in with the KRS, and I think this is part of the reason you want to undermine his value, too. Just my take on things, as I see you just doing your job. It comes across as personal, though.
12/19/2013 07:23:34 am
As opposed to the completely objective way Scott Wolter accused me of being in a conspiracy against him and then tried to have me sued?
12/19/2013 07:43:38 am
It may have been because you came on so strongly that you posed a probable, continuing threat...as though it were personal. Just guessing.
12/20/2013 08:54:25 am
Gunn said, "I'm surprised you would answer this way, as it comes across as yet another casual racially inspired response. Glory should go anywhere it is deserved. We are still looking around to pass out some accolades and honors. Wolter shouldn't be the fall-guy for looking around."
12/20/2013 09:07:50 am
Were I in charge, Steve, I would ask that Wolter (in his books as well as on TV) acknowledge when he is using Victorian fiction instead of calling it ancient legendry. I would ask that he acknowledge the context of the ideas he explores, which includes the political and social reasons the ideas were proposed (e.g., the Ark in Ireland & British Israelism, from which it cannot be divorced). I would also ask that he allow those whose culture he is appropriating or rewriting or their descendants (such as the Pueblo, the Anasazi, the Micmac, etc.) to offer their own perspective.
12/19/2013 06:35:54 am
"Here, now, we have Jason as the great dictator who wants to say what is right and wrong about our collective take on history."
12/19/2013 06:53:28 am
If parts of "the history" are wrong, than Wolter is right. If we have an incomplete view of history, only a partial view of history, than we obviously have some parts wrong, too. Wolter is probably saying that there is more to the picture than what we were taught as children in school...and I believe he is right, as we have an incomplete picture giving us wrong perceptions, in some cases. The art of archaeology changes the puzzle pieces around, and adds new ones in. So does researching.
12/19/2013 08:01:25 am
Gunn, you said to Jason:
12/19/2013 09:07:26 am
Well, actually, I haven't really been trying to convince Jason, because I know he's not convincible. I am guilty of trying to persuade him and others here about certain other evidences associated with it, though. Yes, I've tried to introduce in-depth considerations, to the chagrin of a few desparoto's here.
12/19/2013 10:15:58 am
I said the race baiting and Wolter stuff were irrelevant, because there seems to be purposeful avoidance of recognizing distinction.
12/19/2013 03:30:00 pm
"...throwing out the "race baiter" and "racism" labels just to tear someone down serves no real purpose."
12/19/2013 09:10:35 pm
Just thought I'd point out that "convince" and "persuade" are synonyms....
12/20/2013 06:33:22 am
Big Mike, I beg to differ. One amazing thing about the English language is that it offers colors in the spectrum that may not be seen in other languages. Nothing white implied, please. I'm only talking about a language and its ability to communicate extremely effectively.
12/20/2013 10:43:16 am
Beg all you want to differ, Gunn, it won't make a difference. Crack open a thesaurus and find either word. I'll give you a hint, "convince" will come towards the front... under "C." If you then look under synonyms... gasp and shock, you'll find "persuade."
12/21/2013 04:52:17 am
I can only say that you must not have understood what I said. Words are like apples...yes, and if one is blind and has no taste buds, it wouldn't matter what kind of apples the person is eating. You must be one of these rare people.
12/19/2013 05:28:41 pm
Since we agree, I think it's time to let the matter drop.
12/20/2013 06:45:03 am
I don't think so. I mean, I'm willing to let any matter drop, as long as there is a satisfactory conclusion point. But I see a potential problem, because I don't understand who you are referring to about coming here to call him a coward...etc. I won't get defensive, because I really don't know who you're referring to. You've been a bit unclear a few times in the past, but at least I caught this one early! Some of the players and characters can be confused with others, so we need to have better clarity before everybody can be absolved...or at least accounted for by some expression of displeasure.
12/20/2013 07:00:55 am
and who grants this absolution?
12/20/2013 08:07:25 am
I had assumed you were following the comment traffic. The one who called Jason a coward was Steve. His is the second comment from the top.
12/20/2013 06:22:32 am
I kind of figured that "Steve" was probably "Steve St. Clair". Any long-time reader (fan or otherwise) of Jason's blog had probably already made the association.
BL, I also go by two different names here, actually three when a particular blog rat decides to let everyone know my real name...this weird power-wielding that Steve referred to recently, about someone else having special administrative "power" that enabled him to see things clearly.
12/20/2013 08:05:11 am
I'm sure many knew Steve was Steve St. Clair, but the few dozen people who regularly comment are only a fraction of the thousands who read the blog, and I wanted to make sure everyone was aware since not every visitor has been following the Steve St. Clair saga for the past year.
12/20/2013 09:21:40 am
Actually, Tara left because she was upset that self-professed debunkers and skeptics were not uniting to involve themselves in political matters, specifically, the situation in Syria.
12/21/2013 05:11:47 am
And 'Opher' became the designation for Christopher because someone had posted under the Opher name an unfavorable review of Gunn's KRS propaganda book for children and Gunn jumped to the conclusion that it had been Christopher.
12/20/2013 11:04:58 am
12/24/2013 06:58:36 am
I got the feeling this alternative reality stuff and conspiracy thinking is bigger in America than it is in other countries. Correct? and why so?
2/1/2014 12:00:43 pm
As per my comments policy of 1/24/14, I have removed a comment that included homophobic, racist, and derogatory comments. Further comments of the same will be deleted without explanation.
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I am an author and researcher focusing on pop culture, science, and history. Bylines: New Republic, Esquire, Slate, etc. There's more about me in the About Jason tab.
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