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"Europe Unearthed" (Parody): Secret Quetzalcoatl Bloodline Pineapple Cult Rules Europe

12/18/2013

98 Comments

 
Apparently the most controversial thing I have ever written is the suggestion that America Unearthed is making use of nineteenth century imperialist and colonialist propaganda without recognizing the cultural and racial origins of the claims, specifically their origin in the Euro-American effort to obtain lands once held by Native Americans. This had led to accusations that I am “race-baiting” or otherwise obsessed with race.

I think that a thought experiment is in order, and I hope it will help readers to understand why the appropriation of Native American cultures and accomplishments in service of a Eurocentric narrative is an insult not just to Native Americans but to history itself. So, I am asking you to suspend your disbelief for a moment and put yourself in the position of someone tuning in to watch a show very much like America Unearthed, but just a little…different.

To perform this thought experiment, I will use only fringe history claims that have been advocated by fringe history writers, but I will draw different conclusions from them. Again, let me repeat: All of the following “evidence” is drawn directly from fringe history writers’ works. Please note that I do not believe any of the claims, and many are intentionally misleading or incomplete, as is typical of fringe history. I hope that in suspending disbelief for a few minutes you will be offended and insulted by at least some of the fictitious claims below and thus see why cultural appropriation is so troubling.

For our thought experiment, let’s imagine a fictional television show that could never be broadcast on a cable television channel aimed at upscale American audiences. Let’s call it Europe Unearthed, and let’s see what’s on today’s show:

Picture
Cold Open
German-Gallic border, 60 BCE. From a storm-tossed ocean, a canoe washes ashore. Contained within are two Native Americans. Stunned Romans in togas look on as the Native Americans attempt to communicate with the strange, primitive native people of Europe. The Romans, in their ignorance, assume these men are from India and rush to their leader to tell great tales of the amazing teachers who have come from the sea.

Intro
There is a hidden history on this continent. There are longhouses, petroglyphs, cliff-dwellings, and pyramids. They’re all over this continent. We’re going to investigate these artifacts and sites, and we’re going to get to the truth. Sometimes history isn’t what we’ve been told.

Investigation
The history books we all grew up with tell us that European history is the story of a people in isolation, Europeans who built the Roman and medieval civilizations without ever meeting anyone from the New World. But I think the academics are wrong, and I think they’re covering up a big secret, one that reveals the true history of Europe.

According to conventional history, the Roman Empire fell because of a combination of religious revolution brought on by Christians and invasion from mysterious peoples from beyond the empire’s borders. Historians call these people “barbarians,” but no one really know exactly who they were or where they came from. In 500 CE, Teotihuacan in Mexico was the largest, most prosperous city in the world and the only power rich enough to seriously rival Rome, but mainstream historians want us to believe that backward native peoples of Eastern Europe somehow managed to destroy the Roman Empire.

I believe that there is a hidden history centered on a class of itinerant Native American merchant-warriors called pochteca who came to this continent repeatedly and did so to escape persecution at home and to protect a great secret: the divine bloodline of the god Quetzalcoatl.

My quest takes me from Gaul in the north to Pompeii in the south and across the face of Roman and medieval Europe in search of the secret society of pochteca, and the earlier proto-pochteca, as well as what I believe was a militant side-order or pochteca who intermarried with European nobility in order to gain control over Europe and make a major land claim to most of what is today Western Europe.

My journey starts in France, on what is today the Belgian border, where in 60 BCE two Native Americans may have come ashore and met with the Roman proconsul Quintus Caecilius Metellus Celer, as reported in Pliny the Elder (Natural History 2.67) and Pomponius Mela (De situ orbis 3.45). Although both authors identify these men as being from India, a secret stream of knowledge known only to high ranking elites proves that these were in fact people from America. The Spanish historian Francisco López de Gómara tells us that the men in fact came from Newfoundland or Labrador (Historia general de las Indias, ch. 10), the obvious last port of call for Mesoamerican merchants en route to Europe.

That makes them part of a continent-wide order of religious specialists from the New World that I believe infiltrated and took over the Aztec long-distant merchants, the pochteca, a group that was very wealthy and threatened the livelihood of the Aztec emperors. This itinerant class of merchants weren’t just businessmen: they were also a military order. They were entrusted with the secret communications of the Aztec emperors as well as with serving as spies around the world. This made them very rich. But because they weren’t of noble blood, they had to hide their wealth lest the aristocracy persecute them, just as they did Quetzalcoatl. This gave them every reason to seek out new lands where they could live free from persecution.

And wherever they went, they served a secret god, Yacatecuhtli, an occult form of Quetzalcoatl. This god’s symbol was a bunch of sticks, almost certainly the inspiration for the Roman fasces. Wherever you look in Europe, you find bunches of sticks, and this is clear proof that the pochteca and their worship of Quetzalcoatl continues in Europe today. I believe the pochteca came to this continent to practice their religion—and to protect the descendants of Quetzalcoatl.

Another symbol, besides the bundle of sticks, that announces the presence of the pochteca is the pineapple. At the House of the Ephebe in Pompeii, we find on a mural a picture of what looks like a pineapple, a fruit native to South America and accessible only to warrior-merchants like the pochteca. Is it a coincidence that by the eighteenth century, doorways of elite houses often featured carved images of the pineapple? Or that at the feasts of European nobles the pineapple was literally placed at the center of the table, symbolizing the central role of the pochteca cult? In fact, the pineapple was such an important symbol of the occult power or the Quetzalcoatl cult that European elites posed for portraits receiving this rare and symbolic fruit. Here is Britain’s King Charles II announcing his Quetzalcoatl cult indoctrination with a pineapple in the late 1600s:
Picture
And here is a cult building in Edinburgh:
Picture
But while the evidence I’ve seen has me convinced that the pochteca were active in medieval Europe and probably inspired the Knights Templar—another rich order or merchant-warriors—I want to know more about what came earlier. And I think mythology can help us out.

I turned to the stories of Quetzalcoatl, and I was amazed at the similarity between Quetzalcoatl and Jesus Christ. In fact, there are so many similarities that everyone from the Mormon Church to respected ancient astronaut theorists agrees that the two must have been one and the same. Both were born of virgins, were kind and gentle, performed miracles, tried to end blood sacrifices, prophesied the future, sent out disciples, suffered persecution, and were the one and only God (Sahagún, Historia General de Las Cosas de Nueva España, 10.29; Torquemada, Monarchia Indiana 6.24). Interestingly, Quetzalcoatl wore a white robe with a red cross on it, just like the robes adopted later by the Knights Templar (Torquemada 6.24).

There was also a belief that Quetzalcoatl was a god in the sky as well as a physical man on the earth, just as in the doctrine of God the Father and God the Son.

We further read that Quetzalcoatl, after his persecution, boarded a ship and sailed away to the east. Since the oldest evidence of Quetzalcoatl dates back to the Teotihuacan period, around the first century BCE, this is strong evidence that the followers of Quetzalcoatl went with him to Europe and then to Palestine, where the ignorant natives of the Roman Empire began worshiping him not just as a great teacher but as the Christ. His secret name, Yacatecuhtli, could easily be corrupted from Yaca to Yesa to Jesus by those unfamiliar with Mesoamerican languages.

Remember that Augustus Le Plongeon and the Mayan scholar Don Antonio Batres Jauregui (as well as the chronicler of Mu, Col. James Churchward) confirmed that “Jesus” spoke an old form of Mayan on the cross, a clear bit of evidence that he is simply a version of Quetzalcoatl!

But what I’m interested in is what became of the Holy Bloodline, the lineal descendants of Quetzalcoatl.

It’s not possible to know, of course, whether the Native Americans who arrived in Gaul in 60 BCE were part of Quetzalcoatl’s party, or whether they were simply paving the way for what was to come later. I believe they were coming to assert a land claim to Europe, which in their culture involved visiting a land and instituting trade relations, something Pliny and Mela assert that they did. But it’s certain that Quetzalcoatl was simply the most important figure in a long bloodline of secret societies stretching back to the ancient Olmec, the originators of the religious system we now call “Egyptian,” who came to Africa around 2500 BCE, taught the Egyptians to build pyramids, and carved the Sphinx in their image.

Picture
The Sphinx compared to an Olmec head, from Afrocentrist material.
The evidence is everywhere. Everyone knows that the Midéwin rituals of the Ojibwa are suspiciously similar to those of Freemasonry. As the Freemasons themselves explained in 1922, Native Americans across the continent have rituals and rites that are of various degrees of similarity to Masonry, with the rites becoming more primitive as we look farther back in time. By contrast, Masonry appeared all at once and fully formed in Europe, around 1700. The obvious conclusion is that Freemasonry is an import of ancient proto-Midéwin rituals associated with the traveling pochteca, and deep within Masonry lies the truth about the lost descendants of Quetzalcoatl. Could this be the real truth cloaked beneath Masonry’s alleged “secrets”?

Consider this: At Kinver’s Edge in Britain, rural farmers started to carve cliff dwellings that bear a suspicious similarity to the somewhat earlier cliff dwellings of the Ancestral Pueblo (Anasazi) in New Mexico and Arizona—people believed by Prof. Cyclone Covey to have been affiliated with or dominated by the empire of the Toltecs, the ancestors of the Aztecs, if we can believe the tales told on the Tucson Lead Artifacts, which describe interactions with Toltezus, i.e. the Toltecs. If this is true, then the colony of Europeans the proto-pochteca brought back with them from Europe in the 700s is only part of the story. By the time the Toltecs had given way to the Aztecs in the 1200s, the European colony in Arizona had been indoctrinated in the cult of Quetzalcoatl and sent back to Europe to teach the British how to build their own cliff dwellings and worship the feathered serpent.

All of this is fascinating, but we haven’t yet found the descendants of Quetzalcoatl.

To do that, we need to turn to the European legends of brown or dark-skinned people hiding in plain sight, people who must be the descendants of the pochteca who came to Europe and ruled over the native white people as a dominant military force and as gods. The Irish have legends recorded in the Lebor Gabála Érenn that speak of invaders coming from another land, and in Ireland we find an unusual tribe of Black Irish, whom travelers say have black hair, brown eyes, and brownish skin—remnants of a proto-pochteca colony? Could the Black Irish be the last of the pochteca who were sent to make a land claim to Europe and either “went native” or got stuck in a primitive, medieval island? Why is the European Union conspiring to cover up the truth about the real origins of this mysterious, obviously genetically Native American tribe?

And what of the “barbarians” who conquered the Roman Empire? When we listen to the description of Attila the Hun given by Jordanes in the Gothic History, we see a clear picture of a typical Teotihuacan noble: “Short of stature, with a broad chest and a large head; his eyes were small, his beard thin and sprinkled with grey; and he had a flat nose and tanned skin, showing evidence of his origin” (35). Dark skin? Little facial hair? A flat nose? These racial characteristics are identical to the Olmec stone heads, Toltec statues, and Aztec drawings. Attila had to be a proto-pochtecatl re-asserting the Quetzalcoatl cult’s land claim to northern and western Europe.

Quetzalcoatl was said to have become a star, and this can only refer to the use of archaeoastronomy to navigate to Europe by the stars.


The barbarian leadership were obviously pocheteca or proto-pochteca or a side-order of pochteca privy to the secret form of Quetzalcoatl. They came to Europe to assert their land claims and to protect the descendants of Quetzalcoatl, the holy man who had long ago been turned into the indigenous god Jesus and worshiped in his stead. The barbarians were universally called heretics because they followed “Arianism,” a heresy that said that Jesus was subordinate to the Father. Was this merely a memory of the fact that Quetzalcoatl was the dual name of both the supreme god and also the holy human who escaped to Europe? Some say that the barbarians who inherited Europe from Rome were in fact part of the Quetzalcoatl bloodline, and that his secret is something they are willing to use the full force of government to suppress.

Academics and historians don’t want you to know the truth about Europe, but finally it’s all coming together: For hundreds or even thousands of years followers of Quetzalcoatl have been coming to Europe and guiding its leaders in secret. Europeans today worship Jesus and conduct rituals and rites that they don’t realize originated with the powerful cult of Quetzalcoatl, and their leaders are lineal descendants of Quetzalcoatl.

*    *    *
What did you think reading that? Did you feel a weird sense of dislocation because the typical power structure of fringe history (Europeans conquer non-Europeans) was reversed? Did you feel uneasy about being told that your history is not your own, or that you are worshiping a fake god? Or did you simply treat this as a load of crap because it was so at odds with historical fact that you couldn’t take it seriously? Do you think for a moment that television would serious consider airing such a program?

Now imagine that someone was on TV telling you every week that you are the passive recipient of a secondhand culture misunderstood and bungled from the really interesting people across the sea.

*    *    *
Almost everything I used above is from actual fringe history sources.
  • The claim for Native Americans in Gaul in 60 BCE is advocated by Ivan Van Sertima, Vine Deloria, and Jack Forbes.
  • Ditto the pineapple of Pompeii.
  • The Quetzalcoatl-Jesus connection was for many years advocated by members of the Mormon Church.
  • The Maya-Jesus connection was advocated first by Augustus Le Plongeon, who believed it signaled a connection to Atlantis, which he believed spoke Mayan. It has been frequently repeated in fringe literature from the version of James Churchward.
  • The Midéwin rituals as Freemason were advocated by some Freemasons and Scott Wolter.
  • The Tucson Lead Artifacts’ Toltec claims are advocated by Cyclone Covey, who really is a professor.
I only made up two things: First, I made up the claim about the Black Irish, which I modeled on Scott Wolter’s and other fringe writer’s claims about a “Welsh” origin for the Mandan Indians based on secondhand tales of their skin color. Like fringe writers with the Mandan, I did not bother to visit any Black Irish people or do anything more than a Google search.

Second, I made up the claim about Attila the Hun, which I modeled on Frederick J. Pohl’s claims about the Micmac culture hero and god Glooscap “really” being Henry I Sinclair, Earl of Orkney, based on allegations about his appearance and travels. I used a bit of this for the Jesus claims, too.

Amazing, is it not, how different the claims seem when we reverse the alleged flow of cultural influence and make Europeans the recipients of cultural imperialism.
98 Comments
Irna link
12/18/2013 08:25:59 am

That's absolutely excellent!

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Steve
12/18/2013 12:38:39 pm

Jason's race-hater-enabling blog -

See the first comment by Crabbie on this blog post -
http://www.jasoncolavito.com/1/post/2013/03/scott-wolter-burrows-cave-and-christian-america.html

Just under that, see Jason's reply to Crabbie. Does Jason correct Crabbie for saying the entire population of practicing Mormons are racists? Of course not. He tacitly agrees.

Just a bit lower, "B L" chimes in, 'Love the blog, Jason. I can't stop reading.'

Jason's former side-kick, Crabbie has a long history of such comments. Again and again, Jason silently agreed. One reader named "Mike" went through and collected a bunch of these comments from Jason's longtime blog commenting buddy Crabbie. "I for one don't think there's a lick of the 'subliminal' in History's overt racism." "Nothing other than race panic explains the need for some people to produce and/or consume these hamfisted myths." "The central tenet of the show is that the native peoples of North America could not have accomplished anything. The level of racism that assumption needs is staggering..."

Jason comes back to this post with a pathetic attempt at straddling the fence, "I have never accused anyone on AU of actually being consciously racist. There is a difference between setting out to purposely denigrate Native Americans and unconsciously, through one's own biases and prejudices, producing work that is functionally racist."

There you have it, Jason says that either Scott or History or both have "biases and prejudices" that lead to their work "that is functionally racist."

YOU COWARD. At you just adroitly called them racists.

Jason, you run a race-baiting blog here. You enable it and tacitly encourage it. Again and again you post themes that leave it open for haters like Crabbie (and many more) to pile on. This is a familiar tactic. Jason continuously claims, "I never said he's a racist…" You provide the forum pal. That makes you the king of it.

Your views are so transparently hateful and baiting that I tune in here only to watch your slow motion train wreck and occasionally make it clear to other readers the nature of your real motives.

I personally know Scott Wolter, and Committee Films. Despite the openly hurtful attacks by so many of the "guests" for whom Jason provides the forum to post hatred (and Jason himself), Scott is not in any way a racist. Committee Films are not racist. History are not racists.

Do the world a favor Jason, shut down this hateful blog, or at least stop putting up posts like this that openly encourage the debate between your commenting guests as to whether Scott is racist.

You are filthy, Jason. And your repeated race-baiting is despicable.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
12/18/2013 12:56:22 pm

It is not nice of you not to inform readers that you are Steve St. Clair, and many probably think you are just some angry kook. I, on the other hand, had administrator rights and know who posts here. I think I've been fairly generous in giving you wide berth, but you seem intent on spewing your own hatred while cowering behind a shield of anonymity.

Do you expect me to correct every error a commenter makes? Correcting yours alone would take weeks.

I have never said that any of the people involved in America Unearthed are racists, and I am not "adroitly" calling them racists. Perhaps I am not clear enough for you:

Scott Wolter is not a racist.

Committee Films are not racists.

A+E Networks are not racists.

They are ignorant of the history they pretend to love. They do not know and do not care about the wrong ideas they broadcast to more than one million viewers each week. They happily reassign Native American culture to Europeans and imagine a global Jesus-Templar-Oreo Cookie conspiracy that doesn't exist.

My "Forum," Steve, somehow also plays host to many of your rambling discussions of who has the best Sinclair blood. Are you seriously suggesting that I am responsible for everything every commenter posts? If so, check your YouTube comments on your YouTube videos. Do you want to be held responsible for all of that, including the one about "Mary Magdalenes Wandering Gypsy Jew Tinkers"? You didn't reply to that bit of anti-Semitic rot. By posting videos on YouTube, of course, you're "providing a forum."

Mandalore
12/18/2013 01:00:34 pm

I am curious whether you consider it right to blame the teacher when their students take their ideas in negative directions they did not intend? Would you have voted to convict Socrates for the crimes of his students like Alcibiades as the Athenians did? And the personal attacks only serve to undercut your point.

Mandalore
12/18/2013 01:02:06 pm

My questions were for Steve.

Will
12/19/2013 10:04:17 am

Steve,

Your writing kind of reminds me of interactions I have read between Michael Horn (Billy Meier UFO story spokesman) and the Independent Investigations Group.

Jason,

I just really enjoy how you write when you put the shoe on the other foot.

Thanks!

Steve
12/19/2013 03:12:37 pm

Will, your comment has really moved the ball down the field. Thanks so much.

Steve
12/18/2013 02:21:13 pm

You said the following, Jason - "There is a difference between setting out to purposely denigrate Native Americans and unconsciously, through one's own biases and prejudices, producing work that is functionally racist."

In your reply, you neglected to explain the above in which you state, with only the thinnest veil of obfuscation, that they are racist. Anyone with a brain who reads the above will form the same conclusion.

On this hateful blog, I would have thought my first name + the fact that I said I'm a friend of Scott's would have been enough. Clearly not. You need to inform us of the power you hold due to the visibility of our required email address. Congratulations. Now please answer to the statement I made above.

You're reaching about 30% in the percentage of your total blog posts that take a race-baiting slant. This is despicable. The transparency you display here is helping your academic-wanna-be blog lose credibility. Why don't you stick to the facts? Why do you insist on somehow knowing the inner workings of Scott's and Committee's minds? Oh I forgot, utter arrogance. That's why.

"...unconsciously, through one's own biases and prejudices, producing work that is functionally racist" were words YOU typed into this blog.

I'm restating that again so you don't try to duck it with a half-answer about the words "the" or "obfuscate."

Thanks, Mandalore, for your lovely question.

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Varika
12/18/2013 03:24:09 pm

Steve, you seem to have a fairly common failing here, in that you seem to be unable to differentiate between a body of work and the author of such work. The BODY OF WORK that Wolter has created is racist, despite the fact that Wolter is not. I would blame your education, since education is woefully short on differentiating these things for kids, but in your case, I don't think I will cut you that slack. Why? Because you are accusing others of hate by spewing such nasty hate-filled rhetoric I can only call you a hypocrite.

Steve
12/18/2013 03:45:33 pm

Thanks so much for your opinion Varika.

Jason Colavito link
12/18/2013 10:45:14 pm

Steve, did it occur to you that I have been talking about "America Unearthed" because it is currently airing new episodes? Or that for most of the past six months, I've said very little except when Scott Wolter released his new book?

Yes, I wrote the words you quote, and you have chosen to read biases and prejudices as racism even though these are three different words with three different meanings. The people discussed are biased in favor of Eurocentric explanations, likely without realizing it, and they are prejudiced against mainstream historians, whom they view as conspirators against them.

Now, interestingly, you posted on your own Google+ page that you find Scott Wolter's science "compelling" and say that he "presents compelling evidence of his theories."

Am I to read from this that you are personally offended that beliefs you endorse are being challenged? These, of course, are the same beliefs that you told me months ago you didn't see any evidence for! When did the Sinclair-Holy Bloodline-Oreo Cookie conspiracy finally convince you? What evidence of Wolter's is "compelling"?

Steve
12/19/2013 01:37:28 am

Compelling: evoking interest, attention, or admiration in a powerfully irresistible way.

Yes, I find Scott's work and the evidence he presents compelling. This began as I prepared for the first Atlantic Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia in 2008. In vetting possible speakers, I looked into Scott's work on the Kensington Runestone. His work evokes my interest and attention and I admire his use of science brought to an area where it's sorely lacking.

Keep in mind, Jason, I'm not just reading bias and prejudices into just that little part of the entire body of your work here. Your bias and prejudice color much of what you do here. They guide the very personal way you review the show. One can just imaging your thought process before an episode of AU comes on, "I'm sure gonna hate this one. I wonder what it's about?"

You wrote, "Am I to read from this that you are personally offended that beliefs you endorse are being challenged?"

No, you're not. As I've said many times, the word belief doesn't fit with this kind of research. Not to me. And we've covered that a great deal in other areas. I don't "believe" Prince Henry was here. There is, as yet, no hard evidence of this. I don't believe, as you (likely purposefully) mis-quoted my written website, that the Sinclairs came over to North America to spread their DNA among the native tribes.

What personally offends me is this hate fest that you both manage and clearly endorse, the theme of which you continuously enable. The polarity you're so eager to continue is all over the country now. Pundits like you are nurtured from it.

"When did the Sinclair-Holy Bloodline-Oreo Cookie conspiracy finally convince you?"
Cute question, Jason. I've already answered it above. Gosh you're cute.

"What evidence of Wolter's is "compelling?"
Not just evidence, his approach.

1. His highly scientific work on the Kensington Runestone.
2. As was pointed out by others far more reasonable than yourself on this blog, his scientific approach in the Rock Wall episode. You remember that episode, right Jason? The one in which your bias against the south led you to put yourself into the position in which you had to apologize.
3. His open mind in approaching doubtful projects.
4. His work on the Newport Tower which clearly has celestial alignments and, despite the fact that Jason Colavito has "reviewed" it, remains an open question.
5. And others I don't have time to go into.

Jason, are so personally angry and, therefore, so focused on Scott Wolter because you've been turned down for your own cable show 4 different times? Is this all based on simple jealousy?

Jason Colavito link
12/19/2013 01:52:32 am

Oh, no. It's really quite complex jealousy. You see, it started when the Holy Bloodline conspiracy asked me to oppose Scott Wolter to help cover up the true history of North America. I am my fellow conspirators gathered over Oreo cookies and the menstrual blood of Anunnaki star children in order to plot how best to defend academic dogma.

We decided that the best approach was to assume the position of being biased against the South, despite the fact that a whole branch of my family lives there, because that way Northern elites would feel better about dismissing Scott Wolter's Oreo cookie conspiracy. Otherwise they might wonder if the cookies really were "compelling" and "scientific" evidence of a secret global genocide cult.

After we all made the occult Mary Magdalene M-hand sign, more "compelling" and "scientific" evidence of a historical conspiracy, we made sure to send Wolter a tip about the Rockwall rock wall because we like to throw a bone every now and then so he can prove he won't accept just ANY story as true, just the ones that involve Jesus conspiracies, Exxon, and Oreos.

It's the "compelling" and "scientific" way of doing things.

Steve
12/19/2013 05:07:38 am

Very cute answer Jason. But you ducked the real question, so I'll restate it here so your fans can see if you answer it or find another way to duck it.

To be specific, I've heard from someone in the TV industry that you've attempted 'at least 4 times' to get your own show and have been turned down every time.

Is this true? If true, specifically how many times have you attempted this?

Jason Colavito link
12/19/2013 05:31:18 am

I will use small words so you can understand, Steve:

I have never pitched a television program or actively sought a hosting role on any show.

In 2012 I shot commentary for a National Geographic UFO special that was ultimately cut when the producers decided to excise ancient astronauts from the U.S. version of the show.

In 2012, I was approached by Destination America to try out for a hosting role for an America Unearthed-like show, but I told them I was uncomfortable with their demand that I claim on air that aliens and Holy Bloodlines and what-have-you were, if not real, then at least valid alternative explanations.

Earlier, William Shatner's Weird or What and History's MonsterQuest asked me to be a talking head. The former episode did not use me (though I helped provide research for the episode) and the latter was retooled due to the outbreak of swine flu in Mexico that year, so I did not appear in it either.

I was scheduled to appear on a British news program about ancient astronauts earlier this year, but it was canceled because the Boston Marathon bombing happened that day.

I guess that makes more than "four" times, but in no case did I actively seek out a TV role. In each case TV approached me, and each time I informed them that I would not say on camera anything I believed to be untrue or misleading.

Will
12/19/2013 10:17:23 am

Steve is like the best comment feed troll ever to exist on the Internet.

On some forums/comment feeds they vote for the person who has best stirred up controversy --- Troll of the year so to speak.

I credit him with a great understanding of semantics, grammar, and other proofreading-type skills.

People like Steve make these comments fun to read regardless of their knowledge or factual basis!

Nice!

Steve
12/19/2013 03:15:03 pm

I'm truly honored, Will. Truly, I am.

Jason D.
1/13/2014 01:41:41 pm

"1. His highly scientific work on the Kensington Runestone."

The words 'highly scientific' don't belong anywhere near being associated with Scott Wolter.

Savier
8/11/2014 04:40:44 am

Question where does everyone get there information as it astounds me some of the things ppl wrote

Reply
Joseph Banks
11/13/2019 11:44:09 pm

Not bad man, not bad at all, check the starbucks logo from 1971 and flip it upside down, youre absolutely correct sir, and im black...you are not racist i can tell, not even remotely

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Scott Hamilton
12/18/2013 09:43:23 am

And yet this theory still isn't as ridiculous as the current incarnation of Gavin Menzies' "China colonized North America by sea in prehistory, then rediscovered America and launched the Renaissance in Europe" theory.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
12/18/2013 09:48:16 am

It's interesting that Gavin Menzies received international media attention and a lavish documentary series for his claim that the Chinese reached North America before Columbus, but when he claimed they came to Europe and kick-started the Renaissance, suddenly he was "mad as a snake" and "unrelentingly silly." (He always was, of course.) It's one thing to talk about colonizing Native Americans, but something else entirely to speak about influencing Europe.

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Mack
12/18/2013 10:11:59 am

The Chinese were also the first to land on the Moon after discovering America, of course

Shane Sullivan
12/18/2013 09:51:23 am

I do so love these parodies of yours.

Say, did you know that modern white Americans are continuing the tradition of Quetzalcoatl worship practiced by their European ancestors? Consider the importance of the pineapple in the USA network comedy series Psych, created by Steve Franks. And the Vic Virth Steve Smith Signature Tala Wand? A bundle of sticks!

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Jason Colavito link
12/18/2013 09:53:53 am

And Psych's James Roday is of Mexican heritage, so he is clearly part of the Quetzalcoatl bloodline pineapple conspiracy.

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H2 Europe
12/18/2013 10:58:28 am

Mr. Colavito, we would like to speak to you about producing this material for our channel --- oh wait, you were joking? Forget about it.

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Gunn
12/18/2013 11:24:42 am

Well, at least now we can see where you're stuck at. I guess you see Wolter as taking possession of Native American cultures and accomplishments, this "cultural appropriation" you speak of. I'm not sure I understand how you are using the word "appropriation" otherwise. Is this correct? Or are you using the word in another way? If so, please explain.

Question, though: how is Wolter not adequately addressing Native American issues an overt act of taking possession? Ignoring is another matter entirely. Nor representing is another matter entirely. But you are basically saying that Wolter is somehow upheaving the way Native Americans are to be perceived, or are being perceived, in this TV series. He's painting a wrong picture by not painting a complete picture, you are saying. And this is upsetting by way of somehow grossly interfering with the ongoing general perception of what Native American cultures and accomplishments were/are, right?

Well, maybe you're just being too picky, or panicky. Wolter isn't taking anything away from Native Americans if the storyline doesn't necessarily require any explanation about them in the story circumstance. I think you are being too sensitive on behalf of Native Americans. Wolter is not their enemy, nor do I think he is in any way trying to diminish their input, their cultures and accomplishments.

You want to be the director of some of these shows, Jason, but obviously they don't need your judgmental input. I don't think they care that much about the Native American-associated input you want...because they don't see it as needed. You see it as needed, or as a good reason to attack Wolter, but I think you are off-base here, and it IMPLIES a nonchalant attitude on Wolter's part about racial issues...in this case Native American. I think you have just about picked this one clean without getting much out of it. In other words, to simplify, I think you are painting Wolter in a false light, and the attack from the Native American angle is unjustified.

The problem is that you attack his methods so vigorously that the attacks come across as personal. You come across as not liking the man, so you try to denigrate him however you think you best can. I'm just saying that the Native American angle doesn't seem to be working.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
12/18/2013 11:49:47 am

So, what you're saying is that you didn't get the point of the parody at all, which isn't to attack Scott Wolter (indeed, you should note I name check Cyclone Covey, Frederick J. Pohl, and several others) but to try to prompt thought about how fringe history claims (which, let's remember, are *wrong*, which is why they aren't "history") to prompt some reflection on how these ideas are perceived by the people on the receiving end of their claims.

Remember: Pohl actually said that the Micmac mistakenly worship Henry Sinclair as a god.

Remember: Dozens of fringe writers claim that the Mandan (who are still alive) are not who they claim to be but are secretly Welsh.

Remember: Scott Wolter actually said that the Anasazi may have started building cliff dwellings because a single Englishman came over to America and taught them how.

Remember: Scott Wolter actually claims that the Knights Templar ordered the Mississippians out of Cahokia.

You can't selectively exclude some Scott Wolter and/or America Unearthed claims and then pretend that the show hasn't been unfair to Native Americans and their culture.

I could give two s***s about Scott Wolter as a person; I care only insofar as he is a proponent of claims that disparage Native American cultures and make a mockery of historiography.

Reply
Dave Lewis
12/18/2013 12:23:51 pm

I think you've made an exceptional effort in trying to help people understand the racism behind these programs. At some point you have to give up and allow those folks to to blissful in their ignorance.

Dave Lewis

Jason Colavito link
12/18/2013 12:37:30 pm

I'm thinking this will probably be my last word on the subject for a while unless it's directly relevant to an episode. I'll be able to just link back here when needed.

Steve
12/18/2013 12:49:46 pm

You're so very clever, Dave.

james
12/25/2013 05:19:25 am

Will, I guess Gunn took offense that you named Steve feed troll of the year. I have to agree with Gunn, he is the true feed troll.

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David Hatcher Childress
12/18/2013 12:08:21 pm

The above report which Jason Colavito represents as a parody is the subject of my soon to be released book Pineapples of the Gods.

David Hatcher Childress

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Phillip Coppens
12/18/2013 12:17:05 pm

David Hatcher Childress stole the ideas for Pineapples of the Gods from me, post mortem.

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Scott Wolter
12/18/2013 12:27:05 pm

Watch for "Europe Unearthed" on H2 in late 2014!

Jason, thanks for all the free publicity!

Scott Wolter

Jason Colavito link
12/18/2013 12:35:02 pm

It's probably legally important that I point out here that the above comments are parodies (not by me) and are not written or endorsed by the individuals named above.

Rev. Gil Photsch
12/18/2013 12:13:51 pm

Get real.

Lighten up.

Its just a TV show, er, I mean, parody.

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Mandalore
12/18/2013 12:56:19 pm

Watching all pf this escalate over the last few days has been quite enlightening. I think Jason has clearly explained how fringe 'researchers' uncritically rely on old sources that themselves reflect racist attitudes of their day. I suspect that this is because those old sources did not have modern historical methodology that has discounted so many of their assumptions, including eurocentrism. That being said, given the quality of some posts lately I do not think there is any betting through to people who refuse to consider anything beyond their own preconceived notions. How odd that actual historians encourage the exploration of new ideas while those that attack academia are so close minded.

Keep up the good work, Jason. Take heart, most people who visit this site are actually thinking about what you write.

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Jason Colavito link
12/18/2013 01:01:44 pm

Thank you, Mandalore. I am astonished at the vehemence of the Scott Wolter hero-worshippers. Giorgio Tsoukalos, who has much more reason to hate me in that we have actually met and had in-person confrontations, and about whom I've written much more--and more negatively, has been a positive gentleman by comparison.

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Paul Cargile
12/19/2013 03:38:33 am

Giorgio probably lives by that P. T. Barnum axiom about suckers and birthrates not to feel threatened from geniune science.

Giorgio Tsoukalos
12/19/2013 12:50:46 pm

I am highly insulted! I have many more hero worshipers than Scott Wolter.

Giorgio Tsoukalos

Brent
12/20/2013 05:04:45 am

Oh man how can you NOT see that guy as a hero? Did you SEE how he drove that bulldozer? And that time he dug that other hole with a shovel? I mean, he is clearly everything a man wants to be! I know because the show takes such pains to make that point clear to me every episode.

He's like a real life Indiana Jones!!...that doesn't do anything dangerous, isn't a professor (or an archaeologist), and doesn't actually find anything. Oh, and doesn't wear a fedora.

*Swoon*

Gunn link
12/19/2013 05:53:38 am

"How odd that actual historians encourage the exploration of new ideas while those that attack academia are so close minded."

Isn't it odd, Mandalore, that so many here see it the other way around?

"Thank you, Mandalore. I am astonished at the vehemence of the Scott Wolter hero-worshippers."

This, also, could be looked at the other way around...by which I mean, you Mandalore, have seemingly just joined the pack of smelly little lap-dogs who, like Jason, their perceived Master, think they are so smart and superior to others coming here.

Lap-dogs to the Great Protector of History Truth. What imagined power. What a joke. What presumption....

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Mandalore
12/19/2013 08:15:59 am

Such personal attacks are unbecoming and have no place in a supposedly adult venue.

Gunn
12/19/2013 02:54:50 pm

I would be one of those who is close minded, according to you, because I sometimes attack academia. Yours can easily be construed as a comment to someone exactly like me...which is why and how it is easy to see that you, yourself, are the one who involved yourself in a personal attack here. I agree that they have no place here...so don't do it. Don't say questioning people are close-minded. Here, if you throw a stone, you might get one back, which is certainly fair and to be expected.

Gunn
12/19/2013 03:00:16 pm

For clarity's sake: Don't say "questioning people" are close-minded...in other words, inquisitive people, those who don't automatically take the academics at their word.

Titus pullo
12/18/2013 01:45:12 pm

What a great piece Jason. Expand on it and you have a great work of fiction....

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Aaron Adair link
12/18/2013 01:49:09 pm

I loving this reversal. Only thing that makes this not a perfect analogue is that your fiction was better researched. And it doesn't mention Oreos. We need an Olmec-Oreo conspiracy!

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Big Mike
12/19/2013 08:55:38 pm

It's not that hard to see the Conspiracy. after all, the Mayan calender is what shape? Oh, that's right... it's a circle, JUST LIKE OREOS. Boom. Conspiracy.

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Joe
12/18/2013 02:43:41 pm

This is a brilliant satirical story that I found extremely entertaining. I think it would be even funnier if you submitted the theory to one of those fringe websites under a nom de plume. You might get some true believers to your new “theory”

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charlie
12/18/2013 02:55:13 pm

Jason,
Your parody was better and more well documented/researched than most of the alternative "history" and, to me, less racist even.

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Mack
12/18/2013 07:52:18 pm

Too much nonsense here about so-called "racism" - there is something known as common sense knowledge.

Live with it, there are superior countries on this planet. There are inferior countries on this planet.

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Normandie Kent
7/24/2017 03:14:43 am

That's true, The Native American Cultures must be superior, since both black and white people keep trying to steal their civilizations for their own race.

Harry
12/18/2013 03:30:11 pm

You know, Jason, you might be on to something. Attila was blood thirsty and greedy, yet he reportedly left Italy at Pope Leo I's request. Makes sense if they were both Quetzalcoatl worshipers. All hail our Tolmec overlords!

As for Oreos, Mr. Adair, please note that they consist of two chocolate wafers covering white cream. Chocolate, of course, is native to Middle America. Thus, they obviously represent the dominance of Mesoamericans over white Europeans!

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Aaron Adair link
12/18/2013 05:55:20 pm

You've done it. Conspiracy proven. The Native Americans are trying to dominate whites and are literally squeezing us between them. And to show how twisted the scheme is, you are supposed to twist off the Oreo top. Their message, it's hiding in plain sight. Wake up, people!

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Coridan Miller
12/19/2013 02:47:56 am

I for one welcome our new Amerindian overlords and have been brushing up on my Lenape.

Varika
12/18/2013 03:31:10 pm

You know, I think this should actually cause us all to cur Megyn Kelly a little break on her comments about Santa. (Not about Jesus, though.) Santa is a creation of European culture, and Western European culture, at that, even if transplanted into North America, and the suggestion that this cultural invention should be taken away and turned into something else entirely because another group of people doesn't like it can and clearly has evoked precisely the reaction you intended this piece to evoke--that knee-jerk "HE IS OURS, STEP OFF!" reaction.

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Coridan
12/19/2013 02:57:28 am

How you say something can be as important as what you say. She wasn't coming from an argument of history and culture, but of anti political correctness. There have been black Santas in black neighborhoods for decades and she just approached the whole idea of Santas skin tone like an ass.

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Varika
12/19/2013 04:30:22 pm

Oh, I agree that what she said was out of line because of the way she said it. I just think that we should maybe give her a LITTLE slack. Recognize, perhaps, that while she might not have been educated about it, she was coming from a defensive position of having her culture attacked, not from a place of COMPLETELY unreasonable bigotry. Again, at least on the Santa front. On the Jesus front is frankly unacceptable levels of ignorance and bigotry.

Shane Sullivan
12/20/2013 12:31:00 pm

I hate to stir the pot, but Jesus most likely did fit at least the US Census Bureau's (unscientific) definition of "white," that is:

"having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa."

Ignore the fact that those regions were originally populated by ethnic groups that no longer exist, and to whom, if we tried to apply modern conceptions of race, we probably wouldn't consider "white." And that the same regions were populated even earlier by species of archaic human that predate Homo Sapiens Sapiens. By "original," they apparently mean "within that last few thousand years;" in other words, Semitic people, Baltic Finns, Caucasians (I.E. people from the Caucasus), and Indo-Europeans.

So by that definition...yeah, Jesus was probably white.

Reply
bkd69
12/18/2013 06:24:26 pm

Well...I think I've found the backstory for my next GURPS campaign.

Reply
bkd69
12/18/2013 09:56:04 pm

I give it a Hite rating of .70.

Reply
Clint Knapp
12/19/2013 03:18:44 am

I for one find the parodies more thoroughly researched and entertaining than the shows they're parodying. The information may be made up and meant for some laughs, but at least at the end Jason's giving all his sources and coming clean on the origin and motivation of the claims being presented.

America Unearthed, Committee Films, Ancient Aliens and Prometheus Entertainment do not. These shows, and the authors behind them, present their claims as facts or at least "truthful" without ever once explaining where individual claims come from. There's no disclaimer at the end of their shows that says "Nothing you've seen here can be proven to be true, and most of it is recycled from Victorian Era pseudo-science generated out of panic over archaeological evidence that White Europeans are not the only people capable of building with stone, making metal tools, or forging civilizations."

Therein lies the real problem and why Jason and the people who appreciate his blog for what it does are generally upset about the things being presented in these shows. It has nothing to do with personal dislike of the hosts or slandering their good name by calling them racists. It has, in fact, been argued several times that they are not racists and these are not attacks but further investigation of the claims themselves.

Is it Jason's fault that so many of these fringe writers and personalities rely so heavily on outdated, disproven, and yes, frequently blatantly racist sources? Is it his fault that the staunch supporters of these writers cannot be bothered to follow up on the research or read any attempt at explaining the origin of these claims as a slanderous attack on the writers themselves? Of course not, but if one believes in something strongly enough any evidence against it will provoke strong reaction- in which case the fault lies not with the presenters of the evidence on either side but with the supporters for failing to check themselves before spewing their vehement rebuttals.

As to the race-baiting issue itself, I leave you with this to consider. Merriam-Webster defines "race-baiting" as: "the unfair use of statements about race to try to influence the actions or attitudes of a particular group of people"

Urban Dictionary takes this one step further to include a note that seems almost designed for this exact conversation:

"Note: Some people consider making accusations of racism where there are likely none to be race-baiting. This is tricky because it hinges on the viewpoint of the person who is judging whether or not racism is involved. It is possible to underestimate the possibility of racism. Thus some people say people are using the race card when they are legitimately concerned that racism is a factor. Using the race-card in and of itself is not race-baiting. Using the race-card in order to bait people is race-baiting."

So, unless one seriously believes it unfairly targeting Caucasian European-Americans to point out the racially-motivated origins of century-old pseudo-scientific claims one cannot fairly use the term "race-baiting" and one is, in fact, baiting their own hook and chomping down on it then blaming the guy upstream for one's doing so.

Reply
Gunn link
12/19/2013 05:34:14 am

Jason says, above: "...fringe history claims (which, let's remember, are *wrong*, which is why they aren't "history")...."

We see how telling this comment is, in spite of highlighting the word "wrong" in an odd way--in more ways than one. Here, now, we have Jason as the great dictator who wants to say what is right and wrong about our collective take on history. He chastises those who are "wrong," those who would present an alternative to the standard, "correct" view.

This is a haughty approach, and this is what has gotten him in bad favor with some here, including myself.

The KRS as part of Wolter's persona has been mentioned, so that door is herein opened. And it's a good thing, because this is where Wolter originated from. I mean to say that this is the beginning of his "claim to fame," or at least the point of where he began to manage a "public career."

I defend Wolter, by nature, because he is the person who brought the KRS back into the public view in a quickly expanding way...which prompted my own burgeoning interest in the local history here in MN, which I wholeheartedly believe includes a Scandinavian medieval past, based on an impressive accumulation of what I consider to be persuasive evidences.

I didn't see eye-to-eye with Wolter on some things from the beginning several years ago, and I still don't, and I have questioned how his focus on a supposed Jesus Bloodline is helping his position with everyday Christians. Yet, to be fair, I believe he put forth a very convincing and compelling case for the authenticity of the KRS, and that is why I defend him now. So now we can see that the KRS is a sort of focal point in the history of Wolter's emerging popularity.

I see Jason as attacking Wolter with such eagerness stemming from Wolter's early "career" with the KRS. The KRS became important in Jason's mind because I think he realizes how damaging it has become to his own personal world-view of history. It appears that Jason sees any and all history speculation as an attack on his "right" world-view of history. (Speaking of history topics, not alien crap, etc.)

To me, this is smug and pompous. It appears to me on the surface that Jason attacks Wolter because he is somehow viewed as a threat. Perhaps if Jason can destroy Wolter, HE can--in his fantasy--somehow take Wolter's place. We have seen above how good Jason is at twisting fantasies. The vicious circle of presumed jealousy is complete, with Wolter gone and Jason newly crowned as the Great Defender of History...er, I mean "correct, or right" history.

Except that Wolter's career seems to be on the move, despite the mischief from this sometimes dark corner of the blog-o-sphere. (Uh, did that just date me?)

Reply
Jason Colavito link
12/19/2013 06:05:35 am

What exactly do you think the KRS would change? It would show nothing more than that a few Norse penetrated a bit farther inland a bit later than history already knows happened at L'Anse-aux-Meadows. I can't image how you would think my coverage of fringe history has anything to do with Wolter's work on the KRS, which occurred in 2001, and which never crossed my radar until I read his article on the Bat Creek Stone in 2012.

Arrogance is claiming to have invented a new science, claiming to have exposed the truth about a secret cult of genocidal Jesus descendants, and claiming that you and you alone know the real meaning of Oreo cookies.

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Gunn
12/19/2013 06:27:13 am

"I can't image how you would think my coverage of fringe history has anything to do with Wolter's work on the KRS,"

I think this is a bit disingenuous. Isn't this what you do?

If information permeates up that makes significant wording changes in history books, that is what the KRS would change. It would show that Scandinavians bravely went forth into areas of the New Land before others who unjustly get the glory now. This is the threat coming from the KRS...and from Wolter.

I think most people see Wolter's exploration of these "other" ideas as far-fetched speculation, which may be why he has credibility issues with his earlier work with the KRS. These shouldn't be used to destroy him. I can separate his sensible researching from his nonsensical material. But you can't, because of your preconceptions. You are locked in a rigid "right history" stanchion.

Jason Colavito link
12/19/2013 06:35:41 am

In short, you pick and choose the claims that best fit your own preconceived, rigid notions. What about the "glory" of the Polynesians who reached South America centuries earlier? Don't they count?

Gunn
12/19/2013 06:47:17 am

I'm surprised you would answer this way, as it comes across as yet another casual racially inspired response. Glory should go anywhere it is deserved. We are still looking around to pass out some accolades and honors. Wolter shouldn't be the fall-guy for looking around.

Jason Colavito link
12/19/2013 06:51:19 am

It's not a "threat" is the point I'm making, Gunn. Archaeologists have no problem with Polynesians arriving in South America because there is evidence for it. Ditto the Vikings in Canada. Similarly, archaeologists would have no problem with Scandinavians in Minnesota should better evidence show up. The problem isn't the "threat," it's the poor quality of evidence.

Gunn
12/19/2013 07:09:17 am

"The problem isn't the "threat," it's the poor quality of evidence."

But see now, Jason, you are the one (representing the "academic world") who is judging the quality of evidence...also, the amount. There are many other people judging this evidence or lack of evidence, and there is a considerable amount to judge. You don't have all the information there is to make complete, final, valid judgments about the value of evidences.

There are other subtleties to consider that enter the picture. Just a quick example that comes to mind is how Olaf Ohman went to his grave claiming the KRS was genuine, and how one of his own children committed suicide over the issue. There is always more to the story, and layers and layers of information and insights to consider.

I purposely avoided mentioning stoneholes, but these of course have to be explained, and your idea of blasting has no merit, once the complete picture is looked at. Maybe you're suggesting that a lot of early Scandinavian farmers up here had poor memories and couldn't remember why they made holes in rocks. No. Most of the stoneholes had to do with claiming land, which by coincidence happens to be what the mission of the KRS party was. There's always more and more to the story. It never ends. We see that the past is not past, so we keep looking. We are innocent until proven guilty.

Jason Colavito link
12/19/2013 07:12:45 am

So what standard of evidence do you propose to use? Archaeology has its standards, and the KRS (and more importantly its context) fails to meet them. You are proposing a "new" science? Or do you want just one exception, for the KRS?

Gunn link
12/19/2013 07:20:48 am

Yes, yes...I would like an exception, especially since a host of "academics" seem unwilling to actually look at and judge correctly what the KRS is all about. It is the same in other, non-academic places, such as Wikipedia, which is completely slanted and incomplete. Certain people are trying to undermine the value of the KRS, I think including you. Wolter is tied in with the KRS, and I think this is part of the reason you want to undermine his value, too. Just my take on things, as I see you just doing your job. It comes across as personal, though.

Jason Colavito link
12/19/2013 07:23:34 am

As opposed to the completely objective way Scott Wolter accused me of being in a conspiracy against him and then tried to have me sued?

Gunn
12/19/2013 07:43:38 am

It may have been because you came on so strongly that you posed a probable, continuing threat...as though it were personal. Just guessing.

Steve
12/20/2013 08:54:25 am

Gunn said, "I'm surprised you would answer this way, as it comes across as yet another casual racially inspired response. Glory should go anywhere it is deserved. We are still looking around to pass out some accolades and honors. Wolter shouldn't be the fall-guy for looking around."

Sir Gunn, that might be the best response on this entire thread. Jason has real difficulty answering questions on this topic without race-baiting. Your race-baiting-radar is well-attuned, Gunn. I read his response in just the same way.

What should Wolter do, Jason? Give out an equal amount of attention to all the cultures who came here? Is he being a "racist" in your view because he doesn't devote equal time to the theories of the Chinese exploration here? He seems to be exploring ideas of European exploration of North America before Columbus. I was led to the same thing because of stories in my family. I'm still interested in it. If I'm not equally interested in other races coming to North America, am I therefore a racist in your mind? Clearly you think I am. But the stories in my family aren't about the Chinese visiting here. I'm certainly open to that, but it's a HOBBY, Jason. And I only have so many free hours in a day. Is it okay with you and the race police if I explore only a particular slice of this idea?

Jason Colavito link
12/20/2013 09:07:50 am

Were I in charge, Steve, I would ask that Wolter (in his books as well as on TV) acknowledge when he is using Victorian fiction instead of calling it ancient legendry. I would ask that he acknowledge the context of the ideas he explores, which includes the political and social reasons the ideas were proposed (e.g., the Ark in Ireland & British Israelism, from which it cannot be divorced). I would also ask that he allow those whose culture he is appropriating or rewriting or their descendants (such as the Pueblo, the Anasazi, the Micmac, etc.) to offer their own perspective.

This doesn't mean he can't explore the idea of European voyages to America; I would only ask that he do so in a way that is transparent and fair both to the audience and to those whose lives would, in theory, be impacted by his revisionism. After all, it's quite a thing to be told, as many Sinclair-voyage advocates tell the Micmac, that they mistakenly worship some Scottish dude as one of their most important gods.

All I am really looking for is fairness and sensitivity.

Have you seen the way Josh Gates handles it on Destination Truth? He lets native peoples talk and share their stories, and even though most of the time he concludes that they are wrong, after watching the show, you have enough information to understand more than one point of view. That isn't the case on America Unearthed.

Shane Sullivan
12/19/2013 06:35:54 am

"Here, now, we have Jason as the great dictator who wants to say what is right and wrong about our collective take on history."

In Jason's defense, every episode of America Unearthed opens with Scott Wolter saying, "the history that we were all taught growing up is wrong."

Reply
Gunn
12/19/2013 06:53:28 am

If parts of "the history" are wrong, than Wolter is right. If we have an incomplete view of history, only a partial view of history, than we obviously have some parts wrong, too. Wolter is probably saying that there is more to the picture than what we were taught as children in school...and I believe he is right, as we have an incomplete picture giving us wrong perceptions, in some cases. The art of archaeology changes the puzzle pieces around, and adds new ones in. So does researching.

Only Me
12/19/2013 08:01:25 am

Gunn, you said to Jason:

"You don't have all the information there is to make complete, final, valid judgments about the value of evidences."

However, you've also said the following about the KRS:

"Of course, everything is different when one believes in the authenticity of the KRS...things, oddities, are explained differently."

"To be clear, the KRS was mentioned by me to help give credence to where Vinland may have been, a valid point...unless one foolishly believes the KRS is a hoax."

"...which prompted my own burgeoning interest in the local history here in MN, which I wholeheartedly believe includes a Scandinavian medieval past, based on an impressive accumulation of what I consider to be persuasive evidences."

Can we just accept that the basis of your remarks stems from a disagreement with the evidence? All the other stuff about Wolter and race baiting is irrelevant. The real issue, is that you've spent considerable time and effort to convince Jason that the KRS is authentic, and perhaps you're frustrated that he won't bite.

Let your arguments stand on their own. Due to words you've used in the past, there are some who may feel you're just as guilty of coming across personally, too. Accepting that some people will not share your opinions about the KRS doesn't mean you're conceding defeat. Allow for people to make up their own minds after letting your voice be heard. All you can do is offer your opinion for consideration...you can't force others to your way of thinking. Let the individual decide.

Reply
Gunn
12/19/2013 09:07:26 am

Well, actually, I haven't really been trying to convince Jason, because I know he's not convincible. I am guilty of trying to persuade him and others here about certain other evidences associated with it, though. Yes, I've tried to introduce in-depth considerations, to the chagrin of a few desparoto's here.

As you may know, I come across personally, too, yes, when people purposely offend and attack me. They always get ignorant and mean and nasty first. I just don't let them get away with it, if possible.

"All the other stuff about Wolter and race baiting is irrelevant."

Well, again Only me, that is your opinion. I consider it to be relevant, as much so as Jason does, maybe. If I see him attacking Wolter--unjustly, in my mind, I reserve the right to attempt to correct him on it.

I think Wolter has been unfairly attacked, and I don't mind elaborating on it here. One could consider this a charitable act if one were predisposed towards charity...which, I suppose could include one's "open" take on Wolter's motives. Perhaps we're all guilty of judging.

Reply
Only Me
12/19/2013 10:15:58 am

I said the race baiting and Wolter stuff were irrelevant, because there seems to be purposeful avoidance of recognizing distinction.

For example:

Wolter said Jacques de Mahieu's idea of Aryan rule over the Americas was made of reasoned arguments, but the Nazi influence behind the idea was "irrelevant and unimportant". Acceptance of that idea does NOT make Wolter a racist, but lending support to it and ignoring its racially-inspired origin COULD lead to that impression from a third party's point of view. That's why I mentioned the message board post I found at IMDB.com. At least one (but undoubtedly more) viewer felt the show was founded on racist assumptions.

That's where the distinction must be acknowledged. It's the IDEA that's racist, and it isn't wrong to reveal that so everyone knows where it came from and why. On the other hand, it's also wrong to take it at face value, and use it to support your own hypotheses *in spite of * its racial or political agenda, without acknowledging them, and then be offended when someone points out where, when and how the idea got started.

Let's look at it from the other end of the color spectrum. If I had a show call Egypt Unearthed, and used Robert Bauval's and Thomas Brophy's "Black Genesis" as the source for setting out to prove that "the history of Egypt we've been taught is wrong", wouldn't that premise also be founded on a racist assumption? After all, "Black Genesis", inspired by Afrocentrism, seeks to prove that Egyptian and surrounding cultures were started and ruled by an advanced black civilization, since the Egyptians and their neighbors were too back-water to have developed on their own. As the public face of the show, I would naturally be seen as an Afrocentrist, even if I personally found racism abhorrent.

Disagreement over evidence, production values and research is to be expected, but throwing out the "race baiter" and "racism" labels just to tear someone down serves no real purpose. Like you said, perhaps we're all guilty of judging.

Gunn
12/19/2013 03:30:00 pm

"...throwing out the "race baiter" and "racism" labels just to tear someone down serves no real purpose."

Exactly.

And neither does throwing out the "Ignoring Native Americans" and the ensuing, implied "racism" labels serve any real purpose when used, judgmentally, to tear someone down.

I always like being in agreement with you, Only Me.

Big Mike
12/19/2013 09:10:35 pm

Just thought I'd point out that "convince" and "persuade" are synonyms....

Gunn
12/20/2013 06:33:22 am

Big Mike, I beg to differ. One amazing thing about the English language is that it offers colors in the spectrum that may not be seen in other languages. Nothing white implied, please. I'm only talking about a language and its ability to communicate extremely effectively.

Persuade and convince are as different as two kinds of apples, at least...maybe differently colored as well as tasting different. I may convince someone without persuasion. Flashing an obvious symbol may convince someone of something, instantly, without the person having to be further persuaded. Also, I could possibly persuade you to almost believe in something without completely convincing you. There are probably other subtle differences, as many as there are species of apples....

Big Mike
12/20/2013 10:43:16 am

Beg all you want to differ, Gunn, it won't make a difference. Crack open a thesaurus and find either word. I'll give you a hint, "convince" will come towards the front... under "C." If you then look under synonyms... gasp and shock, you'll find "persuade."
Yes, there are all sorts of linguistic subtleties that can change the general meaning of a word... that's what makes puns so much fun. But an apple is an apple whether it's green or red or yellow.

Gunn
12/21/2013 04:52:17 am

I can only say that you must not have understood what I said. Words are like apples...yes, and if one is blind and has no taste buds, it wouldn't matter what kind of apples the person is eating. You must be one of these rare people.

Only Me
12/19/2013 05:28:41 pm

Since we agree, I think it's time to let the matter drop.

Jason has stated repeatedly, he doesn't believe Scott, Committee Films or A&E to be racist. As Rev Phil has stated, repeatedly, in regards to Scott's explanation about his honorary degree, that should be enough.

If you think Jason is being too unfair in his criticism, of course I expect you to let him know. I'll do it, unless someone beats me to the punch. But coming here to call him a coward and hold him accountable for the words of other commenters, for personal reasons, is just ridiculous. We get enough kooks here, who spout their undying love for all things Tsoukalos; turning this place into an abattoir won't benefit anyone.

Is that acceptable?

Reply
Gunn
12/20/2013 06:45:03 am

I don't think so. I mean, I'm willing to let any matter drop, as long as there is a satisfactory conclusion point. But I see a potential problem, because I don't understand who you are referring to about coming here to call him a coward...etc. I won't get defensive, because I really don't know who you're referring to. You've been a bit unclear a few times in the past, but at least I caught this one early! Some of the players and characters can be confused with others, so we need to have better clarity before everybody can be absolved...or at least accounted for by some expression of displeasure.

Reply
Matt Mc
12/20/2013 07:00:55 am

and who grants this absolution?

Since it is Jason's blog I guess it would be him.

Only Me
12/20/2013 08:07:25 am

I had assumed you were following the comment traffic. The one who called Jason a coward was Steve. His is the second comment from the top.

I asked if the matter could be dropped, since the venom is flowing like water, and we both agree the labels aren't really adding anything of worth.

B L
12/20/2013 06:22:32 am

I kind of figured that "Steve" was probably "Steve St. Clair". Any long-time reader (fan or otherwise) of Jason's blog had probably already made the association.

Steve:

I'm not sure why you included my comment in your initial response to this blog. If you're suggesting that "Crabbie" and I are one in the same, then you need to polish up your investigative skills. I take great issue with "Crabbie", and think the way he treated Jim Egan here on Jason's site was shameful. Likewise, I often took issue with Jason when he first spoke of racism in the pre-Columbian European explorer talking points.

Next time you want to enter this forum anonymously, I would suggest you choose a name way more clever than "Steve". The only choice more obvious would have been "Clair St. Steve".

I expect more from the direct descendant of my Lord and Saviour.

Reply
Gunn link
12/20/2013 07:14:23 am

BL, I also go by two different names here, actually three when a particular blog rat decides to let everyone know my real name...this weird power-wielding that Steve referred to recently, about someone else having special administrative "power" that enabled him to see things clearly.

Well, I've never hidden my real name, and I sometime link to my website, highlighted in green, above, where even my email address (!) can be found, and a picture or two of my smilely face.

I know right away that Steve is Steve St. Clair, not only by the name, but also by the instantly recognizable opening content. I now usually go by Gunn, though I started out here using the elaborate (special) name of Gunn Sinclair, even well before coming to this blog. Gunn is much easier to put in, but sometimes I like to emphasize my full, special name...probably much as Steve might occasionally do the same with his special name.

He wasn't trying to enter this forum anonymously, but--I'm sure, rather humbly as simply Steve. I wouldn't be surprised if he might even decide to drop the S to s to appear even more humble on this blog.

("I know Steve...he's a friend of mine. Believe me, you're no Sir Steve St. Clair.)

Crabbie is Christopher. I called him Opher because I took away the first part of his name--because he was performing so un-Christ-like here. He was a true menace, as was Tara the Terror...and I hope they are both doing okay these days, wherever me and Steve chased them off to.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
12/20/2013 08:05:11 am

I'm sure many knew Steve was Steve St. Clair, but the few dozen people who regularly comment are only a fraction of the thousands who read the blog, and I wanted to make sure everyone was aware since not every visitor has been following the Steve St. Clair saga for the past year.

Only Me
12/20/2013 09:21:40 am

Actually, Tara left because she was upset that self-professed debunkers and skeptics were not uniting to involve themselves in political matters, specifically, the situation in Syria.

In her own words:

"Considering what is going on actually, I was expecting an outburst of decency & "urgency" from so called "skeptics & critical thinkers".I took a look around blogs & sites,desperately seeking to find something,someone breaking up from intellectual lethargy,I found nothing.

Clint Knapp
12/21/2013 05:11:47 am

And 'Opher' became the designation for Christopher because someone had posted under the Opher name an unfavorable review of Gunn's KRS propaganda book for children and Gunn jumped to the conclusion that it had been Christopher.

Matt Mc
12/20/2013 11:04:58 am

Jason,

You bring about some interesting food for thought

What if these stones and artifacts where actually brought back from Europe by Native Americans that traveled there. One could hypothesize that a stone like the Kensington Runestone was discovered on a Native American trip to lets say Greenland and they found the runes interesting so they brought it back. I mean this theory has as much weight as the current ones do, it also would explain why not other artifacts where found. Maybe it was even discovered in Newfoundland and brought back. I mean maybe the Indians thought the writing was cool? Well again that would be assuming that the stone is real, which of course is a great assumption, but one cannot rule out that 500 years ago they stone was relocated from a location across the Atlantic or East Coast and placed were it was found. I mean those scenario's are equally plausible.


Or perhaps the iron swords in Arizona was from a trade some Native America explorers did after traveling around the Mediterranean Ocean on a expedition. Or perhaps the Newport tower was built by Native Americans who traveled to the British Isles and built something emulating what they saw.

Sure you first must believe that these things are authentic but if they were who says that these scenarios are not true? They at least have the same level of plausibility that Wolter and many others theories have.

Reply
Jeroen Bruijns
12/24/2013 06:58:36 am

I got the feeling this alternative reality stuff and conspiracy thinking is bigger in America than it is in other countries. Correct? and why so?
I once read that people who feel less in control of their own lives are more susceptible for conspiracy theories. Any comment on that?

Reply
Jason Colavito link
2/1/2014 12:00:43 pm

As per my comments policy of 1/24/14, I have removed a comment that included homophobic, racist, and derogatory comments. Further comments of the same will be deleted without explanation.

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    • Miscellaneous Documents >
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      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
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      • James Dean's Scrapbook
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      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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