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Following Up on Ibn Firnas' Flying "Machine"

11/6/2012

5 Comments

 
Earlier today Sonja Brentjes, the co-author of the recent Skeptical Inquirer piece criticizing the traveling exhibition 1001 Inventions, replied to my October 20 blog post about her article. Her criticism was lengthy and sustained, so as I did with Philip Coppens' reply to me, I am presenting Brentjes' criticism below in the left-hand column with my reply in the right-hand column. Please do read the original piece before reading the following discussion.

In sum, Brentjes is correct that my broader criticism was inelegantly stated and implied more than I had warrant to assume, but my specific criticisms of the medieval texts in question are not wrong. A later comment from Brentjes noting that I incorrectly called Ibn Firnas a Moor when he was in fact a Berber is completely right, and I apologize for the error.

(As per Brentjes' later comment about typographic errors, I have slightly amended her comments to correct obvious typos.)

BRENTJES' COMMENTS
It is nice that you comment in such a lengthy form Taner's and my little text. But you should be more careful with what you claim we wrote and your accusations in regard to what you believe is our ideological stance. Maybe you should read first some of my research papers.

MY RESPONSE
I have, in fact, read several of your research papers as well as examined Taner Edis’s book, but they are not relevant to the article in question since the claims in one article don’t carry over to others. Edis’s book, however, does contain extensive critiques of Islam and science.

It has become standard to rebuff serious critique against unfounded claims about Muslim contributions to today's sciences and technologies by saying that the criticizing writer rejects Islam and some such nonsense. I don't say anything of this kind and don't believe in such nonsense. Neither do Taner and I make an argument against Muslim contributions to medieval sciences and technologies which had in some fields a substantial impact in various regions of Eurasia. I do know my professional field and I am not an ideologue like the organizers of 1001 Inventions.

I am no Muslim apologist, and I stated in my piece that you made several legitimate criticisms about the exhibit. You are of course correct that I cannot know what is in your heart and my criticisms were perhaps inelegantly stated. The problem I had with your article is this: You have made two distinct types of criticisms, the first factual and the second ideological, and appear to consider both to be in service of science. Factual accuracy is a scientific question, but, after establishing those facts, deciding how to interpret them and what to teach about them is an ideological question. Whether the myth of the Islamic Golden Age is to be supported or opposed (like the myth of Greco-Roman nobility, or medieval chivalry, or Native American eco-harmony) is a question of ideology, not of science, so long as the interpretations are built on facts. (As you point out, many of these alleged "facts" are false.) I freely admit that I differ from most skeptics in this in that I do not support the idea that science yields a specific moral, ethical, or ideological framework. I hope that you will agree that your opposition to the exhibit’s ideological viewpoint is also an ideology, even if it is one that most skeptics agree with.

The issue at stake is that these organizers explicitly write and did so repeatedly that these medieval ideas and inventions are the fundaments of today's sciences and technologies. This is simply wrong. As for [Ibn] Firnas, of course we read the Wikipedia entry. The point which you missed was to indicate that 1001 Inventions could have known better in many cases than what they claim simply by using sources available in the public space like Wikipedia or Encyclopedia Britannica. We did not make a go at their lack of reading original sources and trying to do them justice. We say explicitly that there are earlier sources which, however, do not contribute more than stories. 

As I said before, this is a legitimate criticism of the exhibit, but one I am not able to judge because in your article you did not provide sufficient information to evaluate what the exhibit’s catalog claims. I do not have access to that catalog and can only judge based on what you have written. For example, you write that the catalog discusses Ibn Firnas’ “design improvements,” which, if true, is certainly not supported by the original account.

Neither do we claim that [Ibn] Firnas invented  powered flight as you call it. 

That isn’t me calling it that. In your article you specifically refer to the exhibit as making “this claim of successful powered flight,” from which I took the wording. You also say that the exhibit refers to Ibn Firnas as having a “flying machine.” You then proceed to critique the “Moroccan” chronicle based on the assumption of “powered” flight, which the text does not support. The exhibit is clearly wrong about the text saying anything about a “machine,” but you do not discuss this factual discrepancy and in your brief sentence imply that Maqqiri’s text contains this claim.

He could not have glided given what is said in the Arabic sources about the material he used, namely bird feathers and cloth. The simple scientific facts (physics and physiology) show that if he indeed jumped with that from some minaret or other height he had to fall down. No wonder than that he indeed fell down and got badly hurt. 

The oldest text does not state anything about cloth. The text, which I quote verbatim, states that he covered himself in feathers and attached wings. It does not state how the wings were made, and we have no warrant, as I again stated, for assuming anything about them. The text, as written, could be read to support the glider hypothesis (as the flight historian I cited claims), or it could be a complete fabrication. However, the allusions to this you present in Skeptical Inquirer do not reflect the actual text.

Moreover, you should know that birds do not land on their tails as the Arabic source somehow suggests Ibn Firnas believed and as 1001 Inventions claims as a fact. Hence, either your understanding of science and nature as well as history is fairly limited or you just do not try to understand to arguments involved. I am publishing a long review of all the ideological messages and historiographical distortions, including the many factual absurdities, that 1001 Inventions propagates. It will appear in the electronic journal Aestimatio. Maybe you should read that carefully. It also contains a number of references to research sources. 

I very well know that. It makes no difference that the author doesn’t, any more so than the early explanations that hot air balloons rose by the action of phlogiston disqualify descriptions of the first balloons, or that electricians continue to perpetuate the lie that current moves from positive to negative disqualifies our lights from working. The author was clearly trying to explain why the flight of Ibn Firnas failed, and his explanation tells us nothing about the original facts, which, again, I emphasize could very well be mythical. My point was that you criticized the exhibit for accepting one pre-modern description but did not explain why we should reject this one but not similar Greco-Roman descriptions of scientific experiments that are equally unsupported by archaeology. There may well be good reasons, but you did not explain them.

Moreover you seem to know little about how medieval and early modern historians produced their works. Maybe you should read first about the idealizing, ideological, repetitive character of this type of history writing before you make any claims about the reliability and value of a particular historical text. 
I am the last person to be accused of taking pre-modern texts literally, which you would know if you had “read first” any of my other work. As I very clearly state, the reality of the glider “cannot be proved conclusively short of Ibn Firnas’ glider turning up in Spain.” All I said is that contra your criticism, the text is consistent with a glider, mainly because it is silent on the false details interpolated by the exhibit and criticized by you.

You claim you can read a text - I m not convinced after having read your own text full of wrong claims and failures to understand 1001 Inventions as well as our text. Maybe you should read more carefully in future and think about the implications. Maybe you should ask the authors first when you do not understand instead of jumping to false conclusions.

Best, Sonja

Just like Ben Radford did this summer, you’ve asked me to run criticisms by the criticized first. Did you ask 1001 Inventions for its side of the story?

So, in sum, the criticisms you presented of the factual accuracy of the 1001 Inventions exhibit are truth claims that can be evaluated by reviewing the relevant literature and scientific principles. (And do note, the only factual claim I criticized was your evaluation of Ibn Firnas’ flight, not your discussion of the exhibit's dubious connections between medieval writings and modern science.) Beyond this, the ideological question of whether such material, when found true, should be used to foster Muslim engagement with modern science is beyond the purview of science.
5 Comments
WIKI-SLAP Jim
11/7/2012 04:49:13 am

Jason,
Your assertion "that electricians continue to perpetuate the lie that current moves from positive to negative" caused me to pause for a moment and Google the claim.

According to Wikipedia:
A flow of positive charges gives the same electric current, and has the same effect in a circuit, as an equal flow of negative charges in the opposite direction. Since current can be the flow of either positive or negative charges, or both, a convention for the direction of current which is independent of the type of charge carriers is needed. The direction of conventional current is defined arbitrarily to be the direction of the flow of positive charges.
In metals, which make up the wires and other conductors in most electrical circuits, the positive charges are immobile, and the charge carriers are electrons. Because the electron carries negative charge, the electron motion in a metal conductor is in the direction opposite to that of conventional (or electric) current. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current)

I neither support nor deny any assertions that the Golden Age of Islam had anything to do with this Wikipedia article or that this reply in any way contributes to the overall quality of this post or the overall blog from which it originates.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
11/7/2012 06:37:15 am

Sometimes I forget that rhetorical hyperbole comes across as literal online. You are correct that I am referring to the convention, established by Ben Franklin, of demarking current as passing from positive to negative whereas the electrons move from negative to positive. Of course I don't mean this is really a "lie." That was just a turn of phrase. I should be more careful or Philip Coppens will accuse me of an anti-electric conspiracy!

Reply
Jim (formerly WIKI-SLAP Jim)
11/7/2012 07:23:22 am

An anti-electric conspiracy dating back to the time of Ben Franklin! I had thought the premise behind NBC's "Revolution" (http://www.nbc.com/revolution/) was ridiculous, but now the pieces are starting to fall into place.

What could make all the electricity stop working... aliens?

sonja brentjes
11/11/2012 10:08:29 am

hi jason,

i am less angry now than i was when i read your first blog. i agree with you that powered flight is not what the moroccan text contains, but it is also nothing we claimed. as you now write yourself it is a description of the exhibition's/its companion book's stance.

the moroccan text is, however, not the only arabic text on ibn firnas' effort to fly. there is an earlier text (an independent source). the references to cloth, the tail etc. concern 1001 inventions, not the two arabic sources. this is one of the problems of your critique that you do not know the object of our critique. moreover, eagle feathers and wings do not suffice for a glider, which needs a structure. the human body is too heavy for such a contraption.

yes, i asked 1001 inventions more than once about their opinions. why do you think i am so upset? i know a number of them personally. i have tried to get them and major museums that sponsored this exhibition to agree to a public debate about what we as historians of science do and think about medieval contributions from people who lived in Islamic societies and how they misrepresent these contributions and how to come to a more reliable presentation. the head of the organization, prof. em. salim al-hassani (manchester) and the former director of the science museum (london) refused to do that. national geographic did not even answer.

as for your belief that the sciences do not operate in specific belief systems, i as a historian think that this is fundamentally wrong. i agree though that there is not one such belief system, but that these beliefs have their histories too. things like the golden age etc. can of course be debated within the framework of academic history. my impression is you confound history with ideology. we do have rules and principles that most of us share at least to some degree. the restriction i make here concerns the fact that academic historians of science, medicine or technology adhere to different methodologies or theories and hence differ on certain rules and principles. in general though we agree that claims made about the past do not conern merely scientific facts and can be evaluated solidly on the basis of all kinds of sources. this is one point that sets people like me apart from the organizers of 1001 inventions who do not comprehend the working methods of an academic historian. you don't have to take my word for this. you can read their publications.

i refered you to my papers because of your wrong claim about my ideological stance towards 1001 inventions, not because they had any connection to 1001 inventions. in my papers you could have seen that these pre-modern contributions are what i research and write about. moreover, in your first blog you did not state that we criticized the connection between pre-modern and today's sciences and technologies as you seem to say now. you accused us of criticizing 1001 inventions for highlighting pre-modern muslim achievements.

as for interpretations of greek or roman things, they were not and are not the issue of 1001 inventions and hence of my critique. i do not think that i have to take a position on other peoples' abuse of such greek or roman history when i write about 1001 inventions' abuse of histories of islamic societies. i think this is an unfair demand.

the ideological positions i subscribe to in regard to 1001 inventions is that i insist on a correct, fair and respectful treatment of pre-modern scholarly and technical achievements made by people in islamic societies, rejecting any denigration or exaggeration of them that violates the past severely. i also insist that those who claim that today's sciences and technologies directly come from such pre-modern achievements neither understand the profound differences between these two large sets of ideas, methods, beliefs and practices nor do they understand that it is not sufficient merely to claim the connection. one has to prove it. furthermore, i know that in addition to muslims of all kinds of creeds (not only sunnis as 1001 inventions implies with its choice of words) there were quite a number of members of other faith groups who contributed substantially to knowledge and technical devices, something that 1001 inventions does not show, but merely acknowledges occasionally. hence, i insist that their contributions need to be adequately presented given my ideological commitment to a fair and respectful representation of past actors and their achievements, activities, beliefs.

finally, you did claim in your first blog that al-maqqari was a reliable historian. this is what i referred to with my comment that you do not know anything about the pre-modern arabic historiographical styles and methods.

as for the issue that you do not know the catalog or apparently the exhibition (did i get that right?) you could of course acquire it or look up a previous edition. i think it is rather problematic that you do not know the object that we criticize. t

Reply
Jason Colavito link
11/11/2012 10:52:13 am

I don't think we're really that far apart, Sonja. You're quite right that it is a problem that I don't know the exhibit or the catalog—which was my point: Your article does not present enough information to understand exactly what the exhibit claims, and I shouldn't have to go out and try to order a catalog from the exhibit to evaluate the claims in your article. That might be fine for an academic discussion, but Skeptical Inquirer is sold as a popular magazine, so it should give the readers enough information to understand everything. If the claim comes from a couple of lines in an Arabic text, the reader should know what they say and why they contradict the exhibit’s claim. If I’m not to take the exhibit’s word for it, I shouldn’t have to take yours, either. Without this information—and this is my point—we are left with the impression that the Arabic sources supported the idea of powered flight, which you reject by physics. This is more of a writing problem than an ideological one: If you bring up a topic, you need to answer the reader’s questions about it.

I won’t argue the physics of this with you. Otto Lilienthal built several wood-and-cloth gliders based on bird wings in the 1890s and made several verified flights, of which photos exist. It is possible to design such craft and they do not violate the laws of physics. (In fact, after jumping from heights he too crashed nose down just like Ibn Firnas is said to have done.)

I understand the purpose of your critique, which was a discussion related to historiography and polemicism, but which I am still not convinced is entirely the province of the skeptic. (I’m not sure what you meant when you said I don’t think science operates in belief systems. Science is a methodology, but the body of knowledge generated is, of course, utilized by each culture according to its belief system.)

It sounds to me like you have three separate issues happening concurrently:

1. Errors of fact in the exhibit. I think we both agree this is a clear case for skeptical discussion.

2. Problems with the historiography of the exhibit. Here, I differ from you in that I think that the skeptic’s role ends with pointing out what is and is not supported by fact. As an academic historian, you obviously have expertise in this area I do not possess, and as I have said, you make very good points about the poor historical methodology.

3. Problems with using history to promote an agenda. I think that evaluating an agenda (political, social or otherwise) goes beyond the skeptic’s role, which is not to decide whether that agenda is good or bad (a political question), but whether its interpretations follow fairly from the evidence.

The exhibit presents the claim that medieval Islamic culture contributed to modern science. This is a factual question to which you have provided evidence in the negative. The higher-order criticisms are therefore not necessary, since the lack of a factual foundation makes the agenda irrelevant, since it has nothing on which to rest.

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