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Fortean Times Book Reviews: Nick Pope Lies, Andrew Collins Thinks Nephilim Built Gobekli Tepe

7/20/2014

27 Comments

 
This month’s issue of the Fortean Times (July 2014) took me a while to get to, both because I was busy reading 1177 B.C. and because the features weren’t terribly interesting to me. There was, however, a brief story about a couple in Vancouver who bought a rundown house and found in the garage a full-scale replica of the Ark of the Covenant, wired for electricity with electrodes all over the lid! Apparently someone had read Erich von Däniken’s claims about the religious container’s supposed electric properties and wanted to try it for himself.
The book reviews, fortunately, were especially helpful this month. First up, Pete Brookesmith calls out Nick Pope for a sloppy, slipshod, and misleading volume on the Encounter in Rendelsham Forest (Thistle Publishing, 2014), which recycles the long-debunked UFO encounter in quest of what Brookesmith believes is Pope’s long-range plan to become the go-to expert on Rendelsham, as Stanton Friedman made his name off Roswell. Brookesmith catalogs a litany of Pope’s logical errors, particularly in failing to address inconsistencies in witness testimony, as well as his purposeful omission of skeptical explanation for various facets of the “encounter.” But here’s the kicker, referencing radiation readings:
The ‘abnormality’ of the radiation readings that Pope harps on about has been debunked by the manufacturers of the equipment used—and their conclusions broadcast in a TV programme in which Pope himself appeared. Was his mind elsewhere while the cameras were on him? If not, why does he mislead his readers?
That’s a great question. But I think we all know the answer to that.

In the next book review Noel Rooney reviews Ahmed Osman’s The Lost City of Exodus (Bear & Co., 2014), and notes a problem I’ve found with Bear & Co.’s books, as well as New Page Books: They are atrociously edited, rife with proofreading, editing, and formatting errors, and generally an unpleasant reading experience.

Rooney is sympathetic to fringe views, and he believes that there is no good evidence for or against the claim that the Exodus really happened. He therefore finds Osman’s efforts to tie the Exodus to Akhenaten as plausible as archaeology’s conclusion that no evidence exists to suggest that the Exodus of the Bible actually occurred as described. Nevertheless, Rooney is not shy about noting that Osman has a somewhat unsavory background (which Osman himself admits), including what Rooney describes as “racist” prejudice. Osman concludes that the Joseph of Genesis was Akhenaten’s advisor Yuya (an idea that the reviewer says, wrongly, was taken over from Immanuel Velikovsky, who actually identified him with Yatu under Amenemhet III) and argues that the Hebrews were involved in the affairs of the city of Zarw (Tjaru), but we really don’t have to even go into this. Osman also believes that Jesus was really Joshua who was also Tutankhamun, with Christ a fiction crafted from a misinterpretation of Joshua during the Middle Ages! (Oh, he also wants to overturn all historical chronology, too.) That should tell you everything you need to know about the seriousness of his claims.

The following review finds Jerry Glover blasting Andrew Collins for his Göbekli Tepe: Genesis of the Gods (Bear & Co., 2014). In the book, Collins argues that the site was built by the Swiderians, whom he identifies as the intellectual heirs of the Solutreans (at 35 centuries’ remove!). He therefore argues that the site is astronomical in nature, focused on the constellation of Cygnus, and—oh yes, wait for it—built by the NEPHILIM! Let’s parse this one carefully: The Swiderians, Collins says, were Neanderthal-human hybrids who had elongated skulls and snake-like eyes, passing into Near Eastern myth (8,000 years later!) as the Nephilim-Watchers of Jewish legend and the Anunnaki of Sumerian and Babylonian lore.

Neither culture described the Watchers or Anunnaki as having elongated skulls. Believe me, I’ve read nearly every scrap of ancient writing about the Watchers ever written, and there isn’t anything about elongated skulls.

Glover says that the final third of the book attempts to locate the Garden of Eden in (ancient) Armenia, but he wasn’t able to evaluate it because the “maze of arcane references” required too much research to fully understand.

I was curious about this Nephilim idea, so I did a little bit of research. I read an interview in which Collins described his beliefs:
It is my belief that the trafficking between the suspected ruling elite and the peoples of Upper Mesopotamia is the story found in the Book of Enoch, where beings called Watchers are said to have gone amongst (sic) mortal kind giving them the forbidden arts and sciences of heaven. […] I believe there is strong evidence to suggest that the Watchers, and their offspring the Nephilim, were indeed the shamanic elite that founded the early Neolithioc (sic) cult centres of Upper Mesopotamia.
He goes on to say that Göbekli Tepe is the “key” to understanding the Eden narrative from Genesis, particularly in the appearance of a carving of a snake at the ancient temple:
Here in the Old Testament it symbolizes the knowledge of awareness that Adam and Eve are naked, and that they should cover themselves. I feel it is a metaphor for the manner in which the incoming ruling elite of Upper Mesopotamia, the suspected Watchers of the Book of Enoch, gave mortal kind forbidden knowledge, which forever changed the way they thought about life. However, it was a case of too much knowledge too soon, and so Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden, which we know to have been a real kingdom focused on Lake Van, a huge inland sea in Eastern Turkey.
This is my favorite part of Collins’s argument: We are to assume an underlying historical basis for the Book of Enoch, but we are to see it as not literally true but rather cloaked in metaphor—a metaphor that can only be unraveled by applying Collins’s own theories back onto the text to discover the historical basis Collins originally assumed must exist based on reading the texts! Thus having “proved” the historicity of the text, Collins can then pick and choose elements of the text to us to interpret various historical facts to generate “support” for his own theories, which were (of course) the warrant for his original textual interpretation. It’s rather a closed loop based on few facts and much speculation.

There is obviously a huge problem in using texts from the early centuries BCE as evidence for events that occurred 8,000-10,000 years earlier. The Greeks, for example, were demonstrably wrong about events just 1,000-2,000 years before their own time; there was, for example, no Dorian invasion at the fall of the Mycenaeans. Yet we are to believe that Enoch records accurate enough information to reconstruct the Paleolithic?

It’s funny, really, the lengths fringe writers go to try to find some rationalization for why specific Biblical narratives are somehow scientifically true. Imagine if they put half the effort into searching for the real Pandora, or investigating where the Hero Twins really went when they entered Xibalba. Why do we get no books on the Buddha’s secret trip to the Levant to match the countless tomes on Jesus’ alleged (and fictional) tutelage in India? And yet so many writers want to come up with reasons why Adam and Eve had to have lived, or why the giants of Genesis 6:4 must have walked the earth—even when those writers are vastly at odds with any conceivable religious interpretation of the Bible. Collins is very much a euhemerist, one who wants to find a putatively scientific and rational reason to keep believing the old texts.

27 Comments
666
7/20/2014 03:06:31 am

Jan Assmann, Moses The Egyptian: The Memory of Egypt In Western Monotheism (Harvard University Press, 1997)

Reply
Erik G
7/20/2014 06:32:48 am

Jason -- I have absolutely no time for Ahmed Osman, but to say as you do that he took over from Velikovsky the idea that Joseph was Yuya, the advisor to Akhenaten, is certainly incorrect and something of an injustice to Velikovsky. Velikovsky placed the Hebrew Sojourn in Egypt during the Middle Kingdom, and wondered if Joseph might not have been Yatu, chief minister to Amenemhet III. According to Velikovsky, the Exodus (which occurred long after Joseph's death) happened in the 15th Century BC, and, again in his estimatation, Akhenaten ruled during the 9th Century BC. Velikovsky never linked Joseph to Akhenaten. Perhaps others have done so, and you have misremembered the source. If not, I would be grateful for any reference made by Velikovsky to such a link between the two.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
7/20/2014 07:40:31 am

The reviewer said the Yuya claim came from Velikovsky. I have no firsthand knowledge of it. Perhaps the reviewer confused Yuya and Yatu?

Reply
EP
7/20/2014 08:12:44 am

As far as I can tell, Erik G is right about Velikovsky.

Erik G
7/20/2014 08:34:01 am

Thanks for the clarification, Jason. Much appreciated.

Jason Colavito link
7/20/2014 09:05:06 am

I added a clarification above to make clear who really said what.

666
7/20/2014 08:16:41 am

>>> Velikovsky placed the Hebrew Sojourn in Egypt during the Middle Kingdom, and wondered if Joseph might not have been Yatu, chief minister to Amenemhet III.<<<

http://www.varchive.org/ce/joseph.htm


Reply
EP
7/20/2014 06:47:03 am

You know what really gets me about the whole Nephilim controversy?

There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that either the "giants" or their offspring are anything more than physically powerful humans. Certainly nothing to suggest that they are significantly different from normal humans in size or anatomy.

But instead of being one of those passages in the Bible that the most thoroughgoing atheists and the staunchest Christian literalists can find equally unproblematic, it became a catalyst for some of the most absurd Biblical fantasies...

Reply
Shane Sullivan
7/20/2014 07:46:19 am

In the minds of fringe thinkers:

If the flood occurred as written in Enoch, then the Nephilim and the Sons of God would have to have been widespread enough to justify a global flood; theoretically, that means giants in both the Old World and the New. And, since there's no *actual* evidence linking the two sides of the Atlantic in those days, we skip down to something that superficially indicates the presence of single culture in both: Head bindi- er, I mean, mysterious elongated skulls.

But that's just a guess.

Reply
EP
7/20/2014 08:20:30 am

Funny thing is, according to the Bible the Nephilim and/or their offspring survived the Flood, since they reappear in post-Exodus history of Israel. Alternatively, if the term is simply used to describe anyone who is sufficiently mighty, then there is no reason to identify the giants of Genesis either with the giants of other Old Testament books or with the giants of Enoch.

Shane Sullivan
7/20/2014 12:49:34 pm

I'm sorry, I was thinking of Jubilees, not Enoch.

Incidentally, Enoch does describe the Nephilim as being quite a bit larger than humans (300 cubits, according to the Ethiopian book, but likely a corruption of 30), and Jubilees is pretty clear in describing the same giants as from Genesis and Enoch. And while Jubilees does say that some of the Nephilim survived the flood, it was as disembodied spectres, so the presence of post-flood Nephilim in Numbers seems to be something of a plot hole. Either it's like you said and the term was used generically in Numbers, or it's one of the reasons why Jubilees isn't canon.

EP
7/20/2014 02:16:19 pm

No, that's the whole point! If the term was used descriptively, then it could apply to the fantastical creatures of Enoch without implying anything fantastical about the beings mentioned in Genesis or elsewhere!

Moreover, it could also be a descriptive term used metaphorically in any one (or in more than one) instance. For example, it could be metaphorical in Numbers and literal in Genesis and/or Enoch.

EP
7/20/2014 02:40:25 pm

Also, while the passages are obviously very closely related, we cannot say that it's "pretty clear" that the Jubilees and Enoch are describing "the same" giants as Genesis. It assumes that the general exclusion of the former two books from canons wasn't accompanied by revision of the content of Genesis.

My impression is that Jubilees is much closer to the Septuagint text than it is to the Vulgate. The Setuagint version of Genesis 6:4 strikes me as slightly less cumbersome, which could be as sign of revisions accompanying the demotion of the Enoch-Jubilee tradition from canonical status (which hadn't yet been concluded at the time of the composition of the Septuagint). This is completely conjectural, however.

Shane Sullivan
7/20/2014 07:02:49 pm

"Also, while the passages are obviously very closely related, we cannot say that it's "pretty clear" that the Jubilees and Enoch are describing "the same" giants as Genesis. It assumes that the general exclusion of the former two books from canons wasn't accompanied by revision of the content of Genesis."

Okay, I'll concede that point- I suppose saying they're the same giants is like saying Noah is Utnapishtim, rather than a separate character derived therefrom.

But that's the problem: To fringe theorists, Noah *is* Utnapishtim, and all the giants are the same giants, and every myth that mentions flight is about alien spacecrafts. That these themes show up so often is not evidence that they're variations of a myth, or just elements that all humans like to put in their stories, but proof of their literal truth. Thus, every culture hero is either the emissary of a lost Neolithic-era civilization, or an alien, and the fact that you would even question it only proves that you're part of the conspiracy to cover it up. =P

EP
7/20/2014 07:35:01 pm

"Okay, I'll concede that point- I suppose saying they're the same giants is like saying Noah is Utnapishtim, rather than a separate character derived therefrom."

I'd go even further and say it's like saying that Alexander the Great and Friedrich the Great were the same person because they share a descriptive epithet :)

JaredMithrandir link
7/20/2014 09:43:24 pm

They didn't Survive it EP, the reason more appear after The Flood is about more Angels fell. But I ultimately don't think any of the post Flood activity as on the scale of the Pre Flood activity.

I believe Pre-Flood geography was massively different, including a lot less Water in the Oceans since most of what's in the now was then either in the Canope or the underground Fountains.

666
7/21/2014 12:39:04 am

> The Flood

The stories in the Bible are no different to what's found in books like Chariots of the Gods, Worlds In Collision, Hooked X, etc

666
7/21/2014 12:48:46 am

>>>To fringe theorists, Noah *is* Utnapishtim

All ancient religion is fringe material

666
7/21/2014 12:50:53 am

In the Dead Sea Scrolls, it's a good bet that the Nephilim are a euphemism for the occupying forces

666
7/21/2014 12:52:44 am

Just like Teacher of Righteousness is a euphemism for the resistance and the Wicked Priest the collaborator

These weren't real "people"

Shane Sullivan
7/21/2014 06:26:32 am

"I'd go even further and say it's like saying that Alexander the Great and Friedrich the Great were the same person because they share a descriptive epithet :)"

Well, I think the birth of semi-divine "giants" in pre-flood times used as an example of punishable wickedness in a Judaic context suggests a pretty strong link, but...now that I think about it, nobody ever saw Friedrick and Alexander in the same place at the same time!

"Ancient Aliens, Season 10, Episode 1: Aliens and people called 'Great'"!

EP
7/21/2014 08:18:09 am

@ Shane:

I don't even know whether they are supposed to be "semi-divine" in Genesis. I mean, a strong parallel with the heroes of Greek mythology, for example, does suggest itself. However, it isn't unusual for Jewish and Christian commentators to intepret "sons of God" as referring to ordinary humans (or perhaps just humans blessed with the "spirit of God", which used to given them ridiculous longevity in pre-flood times).

EP
7/20/2014 07:25:03 am

"Osman concludes that the Joseph of Genesis was Akhenaten’s advisor Yuya... Osman also believes that Jesus was really Joshua who was also Tutankhamun, with Christ a fiction crafted from a misinterpretation of Joshua during the Middle Ages!"

I haven't read Osman, and can't speculate about how it happened, but I suspect that there is a confusion within a confusion here. In addition to everything else, Osman seems to be confusing Joseph of Genesis (who lived in Egypt) with Joseph of the Gospels (who was the husband of Mary).

Here is how it goes: There is an old idea in alternative chronology circles that the Abydos records of Egyptian dynasties refer to the same people as the genealogy of Jesus. According to Nikolai Morozov's version from 1920s, Jesus is Ramesses I, while Joseph is Menpehtyre (which in reality is just another name of Ramesses, but let's not add confusion).

Now the Abydos records are missing Akhenaten and his immediate successors (including Tutankhamen), because they were erased from history in the aftermath of the fall of Akhenaten's Sun-Disk cult. If we add them to the Abydos tables in just the right way, while retaining the identification with the genealogy of Jesus, Tutankhamen may be identified with Jesus *or* Joseph, depending on how we reconstruct Akhenaten's successors.

TL;DR, here's what Osman needs in order to make his theory work:

Joseph of Genesis = Joseph of the Gospels = Jesus = Tutankhamen =? Smenkhare =? Ramesses I

Reply
EP
7/20/2014 07:32:43 am

Would have been easier to identify Joseph with Akhenaten himself... :)

Reply
Judith Bennett
7/21/2014 09:49:36 am

Over on Facebook Andrew Collins is marking the passing of Dr. Klaus Schmidt by telling his followers that Schmidt linked Gebekli Tepe with the Anunnaki and Eden! Ok...

"So sad to hear today about the death of Prof. Klaus Schmidt, the leader of the excavation crew at Gobekli Tepe for the German Archaeological institute. Unlike many archaeologists, he was a forward thinking man who was happy to speculate on Gobekli's impact on Hebrew and Mesopotaman myth and legend. He linked the site with the Anunnaki, Watchers and Eden. Without him there would be no Gobekli Tepe. More to come."

Reply
EP
7/21/2014 01:37:26 pm

Of course he did! I mean, doesn't:

"A medium-size statue found in 2008 at Göbekli Tepe could represent a further category of statues, particularly with regard to its less than life-size dimensions and the body being reminiscent of the ‘Beterstatuetten’ of the New Sumerian period in Lower Mesoptamia (Braun-Holzinger 1977). We are far from a final assignment of these objects, but the appearance of this statue – the face looking slightly upwards at someone much more powerful, the hands in front of the body, but without presenting the male genitals, which remain invisible – all these elements seem to corroborate that this statue shares its main characteristics with the New Sumerian ‘Beterstatuetten’."

just the other way of saying that one pre-literate culture copied the art style of another pre-literate culture from thousands of years before its time because they were worshipping the same race of alien gods?!

The above passage is literally the extent of the link Schmidt makes between the Gobekli Tepe culture and ancient Sumerians.

Fuck everything.

Reply
.
7/24/2014 09:09:21 pm

is David's foe Goliath a giant or is he first a very very big
guy and then quite dead after being hit on the forehead
by the smooth stone from a stream? does TITAN = giant?

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