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Germaine Dieterlen, the Sirius Mystery, and the Quest for Truth

10/5/2012

6 Comments

 
Authors of extraordinary claims have two modes when under attack for their false claims. They either lash out wildly like a cornered animal, or they retreat into their shells to ride out the storm like a tortoise or a snail. I have previously documented how alternative authors like Erich von Däniken, Robert Temple, and Graham Hancock have imagined conspiracies to suppress the truth of their claims. Even Philip Coppens this week accused me of a hate-filled “obsession” with him because I dared criticize but a single claim of his. 

Robert Temple, who sometimes complains that the CIA and the “hypnosis community” are sabotaging his career, tends to be more of a tortoise. In his 1998 edition of The Sirius Mystery, he failed to acknowledge that the very center of his work—the claim that the Dogon tribe of Africa possess anomalous knowledge of nature of the Sirius star system that only aliens could provie—had been proven untrue by fieldwork conducted with the Dogon by Walter E. A. van Beek in 1991. To this day, he has refused to acknowledge the existence of van Beek’s work.

Temple derived his claims about the Dogon from Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, two anthropologists who had written Le Renard pale (Temple's primary source) about the Dogon. The whole story is rather long and complex—and laid out here—but the gist of it is that Griaule convinced himself of mythologies and facts that were not external to him, and Dieterlen embraced these same views after working with Griaule among the Dogon for many years.

So, when  Van Beek discovered no factual support for the claims, he courteously let Dieterlen—who died in 1999—see a copy of his findings before he published them. Her reaction—and she was an actual, credentialed academic—was just like that of any other alternative theorist: suppress the truth to protect the lie. Van Beek sat down with Dieterlen in Paris to discuss his article:

Quote
I braced myself for a long critique, but she had just one question: “Pourqois le publier?” Only that, why publish? She had no answer to my arguments; in fact during our two-hour conversation that followed she never ventured into the content of the article at all, but just pleaded not to publish it. It was, evidently, also the most difficult question to answer, and one I had been reflecting on very long. I answered, truthfully I think, that publishing is the very soul of science, and that debate is the way to proceed in getting closer to the truth. She had no comments on that, but instead started reminiscing on the past.

Walter E. A. van Beek, “Haunting Griaule: Experiences from the Restudy of the Dogon,” History in Africa 31 (2004) (via Mike Heiser).

That pretty much says it all. 

6 Comments
DDL2000
10/5/2012 10:56:30 am

I bet you were the kind of kid who enjoyed telling other kids that Santa Claus wasn't real.

You obviously spend a lot of time looking all this crap up, but what the hell is your drive? Why do you even give a damn? Do you think you are some kind of Messiah to the cause of debunking other people's ideas or do you have a deep chip on your shoulder. Some old wound you are trying to heal? Somebody piss you off long ago.

Or was it that you yourself were once a "believer" and can't handle that you lost your faith, in whatever it was, and have to suck the joy out of everyone else?

I just don't see why all the trouble for what is obviously (according to yourself) not a money maker.

What's this really all about?

Reply
Jason Colavito link
10/5/2012 11:17:12 am

Clearly, you have never read my Cult of Alien Gods (or the online excerpt), which explains my background. My motive is simple: I love ancient history, and it upsets me when people tell lies about the past. You may be happy to think of truth and lies as two types of "fun," but there are dangers to believing things that aren't true. In my small way I'm trying to help sort fact from fiction.

There is nothing messianic about stating plain facts and comparing them to alternative authors' claims. In fact, I'd think that fact-checking is the opposite of a Messiah complex.

Exploring alternative beliefs offers a twofold benefit: (a) It dispels lies and fraud, preventing new audiences from being fooled, and (b) it teaches me new things about ancient history by goading me to read more ancient texts, do more research, and learn the fine details of how we know and understand the past.

As you can see from my books and articles, I don't just criticize other people. I also investigate history and literature. I've sought the origin of the Chupacabra, uncovered the mystery of the Scholomance, and presented the most comprehensive historical framework for the horror genre. Just because my blog talks about debunking idiotic ideas doesn't meant that's my whole life.

Reply
DDL2000
10/5/2012 12:50:05 pm

Ok, not that it's any of anyone's business, but what DO you believe in? Do you, or have you EVER, had a faith in something that didn't come down to "prove it to me with facts?"

It's like those people who can't let people of faith rest in that faith without trying to tell them that God and things don't exist. I've never understood why people can't just let other people believe.

Yes, I realize you are trying to disprove God, it's just my analogy because it's what you remind me of.

It doesn't have to be LIES just because you don't have PROOF. You always talk about "lies" which makes it sound like YOU are the one suffering from "conspiracy" issues. People can believe in something and share their ideas without it being LIES.

Jeez

Jason Colavito link
10/5/2012 01:57:51 pm

Actually, I almost never use the word "lies" (excepting headlines, where space is at a premium). I go out of my way to give alternative theorists the benefit of the doubt, except where it appears that they have purposefully and purposely manipulated data or fabricated facts, which is my particular problem with them. As I explained in my Graham Hancock post the other day, whether you make a materialist or non-materialist interpretation of the facts is a philosophical issue, and one I cannot adjudicate. But the facts themselves you don't get to fake for profit.

My personal beliefs make no real difference, and I have, from time to time, entertained non-materialist ideas about reality and the universe. But these are philosophical experiments, not scientific ones. Alternative theorists make historical, archaeological, and scientific claims, and therefore we must judge them by that evidence.

If they want to talk spiritual or philosophical ideas about aliens and morals, they can do so, but when they start talking about the specific facts of history, they are obliged to stick to them.

John lowe
10/5/2012 08:46:19 pm

These people lie to make money. Why wouldn't you take the time to provide true facts.

Reply
nerd
7/28/2018 12:30:50 pm

You're doing a great job.
But, after reading a little, let me ask about this topic.

1) Dogon / Sirius link
based in WEAvBeek 1991a, it seems that they do not, but in WEAvBeek 2004 it seems that they know it, and also with a zodiacal reference, hunter's star? [WDF??]

2) vanBeek / bible link
At the light of WEAvBeek 2010, is it too prejudiced to suspect a potencial religious bias?

*WEAvBeek 1991a
Dogon Restudied: A Field Evaluation of the Work of Marcel Griaule
Walter E. A. van Beek, 1991
...the remainder of the Griaule circle of informants interpreted these stars after his death.
Though they do speak about sigu tolo, they desagree completely with each other as to
which star is meant; for some it is an invisible star that should rise to announce the sigu,
for another it is Venus that through a different position appears as sigu tolo.
All agree, however, that they learned about the star from Griaule.

*WEAvBeek 2004
HAUNTING GRIAULE: EXPERIENCES FROM THE RESTUDY OF THE DOGON
WALTER E.A. VAN BEEK, 2004
Yes, Sirius they knew as dana tolo, the hunter's star (just in line with Orion's girdle) but
no double star, no link with sigi, and no sigi tolo (star of the sigi) at all.

*WEAvBeek 2010
Knowledge and Sanctification, a Perennial Quest
WALTER E.A. VAN BEEK, 2010
https://www.fairmormon.org/testimonies/scholars/walter-e-a-van-beek

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    • Collection: Ancient Alien Fraud >
      • Chariots of the Gods at 50
      • Secret History of Ancient Astronauts
      • Of Atlantis and Aliens
      • Aliens and Ancient Texts
      • Profiles in Ancient Astronautics >
        • Erich von Däniken
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      • Blunders in the Sky
      • The Case of the False Quotes
      • Alternative Authors' Quote Fraud
      • David Childress & the Aliens
      • Faking Ancient Art in Uzbekistan
      • Intimations of Persecution
      • Zecharia Sitchin's World
      • Jesus' Alien Ancestors?
      • Extraterrestrial Evolution?
    • Collection: Skeptic Magazine >
      • America Before Review
      • Native American Discovery of Europe
      • Interview: Scott Sigler
      • Golden Fleeced
      • Oh the Horror
      • Discovery of America
      • Supernatural Television
      • Review of Civilization One
      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
      • Charioteer of the Gods
    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
      • The China Syndrome
      • Atlantis, Mu, and the Maya
      • Easter Island Exposed
      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
      • Lovecraft in Bergier
      • Lovecraft and Scientology
    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
      • Aliens and Anal Probes
      • Ultra-Terrestrials and UFOs
      • Rebels, Queers, and Aliens
    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
    • The Curse of the Pharaohs
    • The Antediluvian Pyramid Myth
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    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
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        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Atrahasis Epic
          • Epic of Gilgamesh
          • Kutha Creation Legend
          • Babylonian Creation Myth
          • Descent of Ishtar
          • Berossus
          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
          • Dream Stela of Thutmose IV
          • The Papyrus of Ani
          • Classical Accounts of the Pyramids
          • Inventory Stela
          • Manetho
          • Eratosthenes' King List
          • The Story of Setna
          • Leon of Pella
          • Diodorus on Egyptian History
          • On Isis and Osiris
          • Famine Stela
          • Old Egyptian Chronicle
          • The Book of Sothis
          • Horapollo
          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
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          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
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        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
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          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
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          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Scrapbook
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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