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Graham Hancock Appears on Joe Rogan Podcast and Spends Three and Half Hours Bashing Skeptics

11/16/2016

28 Comments

 
​Last night Graham Hancock and fringe geologist Randall Carlson sat down with Joe Rogan for a three-and-a-half-hour podcast. It wasn’t terribly different from the pair’s first appearance on the podcast just about exactly one year ago. In fact, if I didn’t know better, I would have thought it was a rerun. Most of the interview recapitulates material from Magicians of the Gods, usually point for point and often in the same words as the book. Since I have already covered this material in my review of his book, I won’t bother to repeat all of my criticisms of Hancock’s claims about the monumental Neolithic site of Göbekli Tepe, the Roman temple site of Baalbek, and the rest of his usual stock of claims. My previous discussion of last year’s Joe Rogan Experience podcast with Hancock and Carlson offers still more evaluation. Therefore, I will focus my discussion here on material that is different. Sadly, the new material is mostly a sustained attack on skeptics.
The video of the podcast is not available yet, but the audio can be heard here.

​Rogan and Hancock engaged in an argument about skeptics and their presumed expertise about prehistory, saying that “nobody knows that” and therefore speculation is as valid as archaeology. Rogan said that after announcing Hancock’s appearance he had a dispute with Michael Shermer, the publisher of Skeptic magazine, about Atlantis—sorry, the “lost civilization,” since we’re back to that terminology again. Shermer apparently declared that there was no civilization 10,000 years ago but wasn’t aware of the existence of Göbekli Tepe and therefore had no immediate answer to Rogan’s suggestion that it was evidence of a lost civilization. Therefore, Rogan and Hancock, along with Carlson, concluded that skeptics are ignoramuses who offer “knee-jerk” criticism absent facts. Michael Shermer is no expert on ancient history and makes for a convenient straw man because of his tendency to offer simplified dismissals of bad claims for popular consumption, but I have become an expert on Hancock’s specific claims about ancient history and I dare them to try me instead.
 
“They just try to explain away the new evidence,” Hancock said, repeating his claim that elitist academics refuse to accept any evidence that contradicts their model. Hancock and Rogan both deny, incidentally, that Göbekli Tepe could have been built by hunter-gatherers because, as Hancock put it, “you can’t pay for someone to become an architect” in a hunter-gatherer society, which lacks money or trade goods to pay people for their time. This is an astonishingly short-sighted view of anthropology and history, and it represents both a Victorian view of the sliding scale from savagery to civilization as well as a distinctly Western view that the only reason to engage in labor is to acquire material resources. For a man who champions a return to pagan spirituality, Hancock seems incapable of considering what feats faith might inspire in the hope of reaching the gods. Archaeologists say that monuments around the world, from the mound city of Poverty Point in Louisiana to the 11,000-year-old Tel Jericho tower were built by hunter-gathers. It is rare for hunter-gathers to build monumental structures, but far from unprecedented.
 
“What’s fascinating to me,” Rogan said, “is that people who consider themselves to be or—I mean, he’s a skeptic professional—but many people who don’t question anything that’s outside of what they’ve been told, as soon as they hear any theory that’s outside of the what they’ve been told, they immediately call quackery.”
 
Rogan said that it was “weird” that skeptics offer only “knee-jerk” criticism of Hancock’s hypothesis that an asteroid or comet destroyed all evidence of a prehistoric Atlantis-like civilization. He bases this on a logical error. He wrongly believes that because asteroids exist and hit the Earth from time to time that therefore it is logical to conclude that a specific asteroid hit the Earth at a specific time and destroyed a specific lost civilization of high technology and spiritual enlightenment. One could accept every claim about the asteroids and comets and even when they hit the Earth without accepting the existence of Atlantis. One does not follow logically from the other, and Hancock’s assertion that no evidence of Atlantis will be found because the asteroid or comet destroyed it all is an argument from ignorance.
 
Hancock claims that scientists have a “vested interest” in promoting specific hypotheses designed to make human beings into the villains of history. According to Hancock, scientists want to promote uniformitarianism to deny the reality of Noah’s Flood, and want to emphasize the role of climate change to create a political consensus for regulation, and want to say humans killed off the mastodons and mammoths rather than a comet to make people into villainous destroyers of the environment. Hancock allows that many scientists aren’t aware that they are doing this, but he claims that their ideological refusal to accept that history is controlled by sky rocks leads them to villainize humanity instead of the random horror that rains from the sky.
 
Hancock bemoans that “scientists” have “the ear of the media” and are preventing catastrophists from warning the public about the importance of asteroids. Rogan repeated again that Michael Shermer “highlights the natural inclination (of skeptics) to poke fun at something he’s done absolutely no research on.” Here it’s worth repeating again that Rogan and Hancock are making a terrible logical error: Even if you accept that asteroids are a major danger to humanity, both now and in the past, it does not follow that Atlantis existed. Shermer may be wrong to dismiss Rogan’s concerns without facts, but the logic that connects asteroids to Atlantis is astonishingly illogical.
 
Carlson tries to offer some evidence for it, and it is that myths and legends seem to sound like comet or asteroid impacts. He is essentially paraphrasing Ignatius Donnelly in Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel, where those same myths, like that of Phaethon, were put to the same purpose. He adds an odd claim, with Freemasonic overtones, that when the Pleiades reach “the keystone of the Royal Arch” (here the Masonic arch is now the zodiac) in the sky, every culture on Earth celebrates the Day of the Dead, around Halloween time. This material Carlson takes directly from Robert Grant Halliburton, a Victorian anthropologist who proposed the “Year of the Pleiades.” In the 1860s, he had found that “primitive” cultures celebrated a feast of the dead in early November, which he connected to the rising of the Pleiades 12,000 years earlier, and his work was published, against his wishes, by Charles Piazzi Smyth in his book on the mystical measurements of the Great Pyramid. Halliburton’s error was mistaking the contemporary celebration of the dead for the historical one; for example, the Mexican Day of the Dead was originally a summer festival before assimilation with the Christian All Saints’ Day and All Souls’ Day moved it to November. Similar effects occurred wherever Christianity spread. This does not concern Carlson and therefore not Rogan, who envision an Atlantean origin for the holiday, which they feel commemorates the day that a space rock destroyed Atlantis. “Right now, our science is closing its eyes to this!” Hancock says. “We are dealing with a hidden hand in history. […] But the skeptics hate it. They can’t bear it!”
 
Hancock declares humanity to be “fucked up,” and he blames our current state on being unaware of the “real” history of a lost ice age civilization.
 
Rogan, who praises Hancock for his “courage,” said that doing drugs convinced him that the supernatural is more interesting than space aliens. Hancock, who denies being a “guru” and says that he is an “outsider” who’s trying to take down the power of the elites, said that while skeptics denounce visions seen while high on drugs as generated by the brain, he believes that being high lets the brain phase into a different dimension populated by supernatural beings. Space aliens, he said, as “dull by comparison” to the gods and monsters encountered while tripping on DMT.
 
Hancock and Carlson both claim that as “outsiders” they are looking for people of opposing views to debate about their issues, but this is a disingenuous lie. They are looking for straw men they can set fire to, not knowledgeable experts who can make mincemeat of their speculations.
 
As the show ground on through its many hours, the conversation tried to return to the same claims and the same themes over and over again. Similar ideas kept popping up, and similar themes returned. It was pretty much a retread of Hancock’s first appearance on Rogan’s podcast, and again a retread of Magicians of the Gods. The last hour was basically a retread of the first, and I waited through the whole podcast for the “breaking news” that Hancock had promised he would share when he promoted his appearance on the program. The only “new” material was the request for cash that Hancock made multiple times on behalf of the Comet Research Group, which is crowdsourcing cash to look for evidence that a comet destroyed Atlantis. Well, not really. Technically, they are researching the role comets play in human history; Hancock identifies this with Atlantis. I think the Comet Research Group is currently focused more on mammoths.
 
“Myths are the memory banks of humanity,” Hancock said. “We should not call them myths. We should call them memories.” First and foremost, he said, is the myth of the Great Flood, which he believes proves that “something” happened in the past.
 
Great! Do I get to pick which ones are “memories” and which are just made up? I’ll be happy to give you a half dozen myths and legends that contradict Hancock’s preferred narrative. What criteria does he use to distinguish between them? The myth of the Flood, for example, is not quite universal, but a clear rival is the myth of giants. Must we therefore conclude that humongous humanoids once existed but that the comet similarly vaporized all their bones? The logic is equally sound.
 
But if Hancock wishes to put his money where his mouth is, he might profitably launch an expedition in search of the Pyramid of Doom located on an island in the Atlantic Ocean. If myth truly is memory, he must be interested in the Arabian story from the Akhbar al-zaman that says that there is an Atlantic “island in the middle of which is a large and shiny black stone pyramid; who knows what it contains, but around it are the dead and vast ossuaries. A king once came to visit the island. When he went down into it, drowsiness seized his companions; they fell into a stupor, lost their strength, and could not move. Those who saw this returned to the ship in haste, and all those who stopped or lingered perished” (my trans.). So where is our shiny black pyramid?

28 Comments
Only Me
11/16/2016 11:19:01 am

"...Hancock’s assertion that no evidence of Atlantis will be found because the asteroid or comet destroyed it all..."

"The only 'new' material was the request for cash that Hancock made multiple times on behalf of the Comet Research Group, which is crowdsourcing cash to look for evidence that a comet destroyed Atlantis."

Excuse me, but...what the fuck?! How can he ask for cash to look for evidence he already said would never be found?

I blame Hancock's current state on being unaware of real history, period. And a need to increase his wealth from the gullibility of others.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
11/16/2016 11:54:57 am

Perhaps I draw conclusions a bit too broadly. Technically, they are merely looking for cash to research comets and the risk they pose to civilization by examining their impact on human history, in light of Graham Hancock's research. They aren't specifically searching for Atlantis, but rather to prove that the comet hit. It is Hancock who says that the comet destroyed Atlantis. The CRG is only adjacent to that.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
11/16/2016 12:04:59 pm

I updated the post to clarify.

Only Me
11/16/2016 12:10:30 pm

No, no, I understand. I assumed that bit about the CRG was just Hancock trying to create the impression science backs up his claims. A little marketing to his audience, if you will.

E.P. Grondine
11/16/2016 12:29:08 pm

Hi Jason -

You have now stumbled into a field with which I am intimately familiar.

The Comet Research Group was set up by George Howard over at the Cosmic Tusk. Their research goals are clearly stated.

George first became interested in comet and asteroid impacts due to Otto Muck's speculation on impact forming the Carolina Bays.
George also strongly believed that this impact had to be the so called "Younger Dryas Boundary" comet impact.

The problem here is that currently the Carolina Bays appear to have been formed by other processes, and it is certain that they existed well before either of the Holocene Start Impact Events, for which see:

http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3656
and
http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3668


DaveR
11/16/2016 01:58:11 pm

It appears they're really looking for people to give them money so they can travel around the world doing drugs and not working.

E.P. Grondine
11/16/2016 11:30:44 pm

Hi DaveR -

These are two entirely different sets of people.

While George appreciates Mr. Hancock's request for donations to his Comet Research Group, I can pretty much assure you that unlike Mr. Hancock, Mr. Howard does not endorse drug use.

Period.

Bob Jase
11/16/2016 11:47:05 am

" Atlantis—sorry, the “lost civilization,”

Yeah but in a couple thousand years people will be arguing whether earlier civilizations like the OO-ESS-AY really existed before the legendary Trumpaclysm destroyed them.

Reply
E.P. Grondine
11/16/2016 12:58:36 pm

When the Scientific Method suffers a set back -

After the Alvarez's demonstrated the K/T impact, the question arose as to how oten these impacts occured. Dr, Morrison, a prominent sceptic, had estimated the impact hazard based on lunar data.
This estimate was about 1,000 times too low.

Morrison also adopted Mueller's Nemesis hypothesis, of a nearby gravitational asteroid injectot. Thanks to the WISE survey, we now know with certainty that Nemesis does not exist.

Drs Clube and Napier looked at cometary impact, and it turned out that instead of ELE's occurring at 1 per 100 million years, ELE's occurred at the rate of 1 per 26 million years. Furthermore, cometary impacts had had very significant effects in the recent past..

See:
https://youtu.be/c6okoNqmmW4?list=PLQFjoWZeHDMQln37vSd1heFOfte_O_Rhp

Reply
Kal
11/16/2016 01:58:05 pm

These jokers have 'secret knowledge which for a fee to their group will be imparted to you', which is amusing if one is gullible enough to donate.

Once one of them started ranting about how drugs made him see things far cooler than aliens, or something like that, it was evident he was just full of himself.

Sometimes snake oil is just snake oil.

They will promise you that somehow magical super civilizations existed, in their heads, and for a fee you can see them also, or believe in their cult of fake scientific ignorance.

Having bought into the fake cult, the crowd mentality of the fringe will go along with it because now they're invested.

Plato's Atlantis was a myth, designed to show the Greeks what a magnificent but decadent empire would do eventually. It was loosely based on ruins Plato then visited in the Med. The Atlantic Ocean was not a thing yet in Plato's time. It existed of course, but they did not call it Atlantic yet.

They are confusing names and renaming places for actual evidence of things that likely didn't mean that when they were named, centuries if not a thousand years later.

According to actual history, the Atlantic was named in 1515 during the colonial times!

Plato (in 428 BC) was writing literally a thousand years before that and he would have called it then 'the great ocean', because the Med was 'the ocean'. This is over 1,000 years earlier!

But these radio guys don't know the difference in dating, and yet we are to believe them about some made up comet impact story that completely erased all evidence of something they made up. Got it.

Not saying there couldn't have been civilizations older than Atlantis, which Plato made up, a thousand years after it allegedly happened, (another thousand).

Some of the ruins of the old world are way, way older than merely 1,500 BC. Egypt would be much older as would some of the old Mesoamerican ruins, and the old Biblical cities of Babylon and parts of Israel and all that. Even Stonehenge is older than Atlantis.

It is not from the Younger Dryas. That is from that awful 10,000 BC movie. Maybe the film is a course in his lectures. Hah.

Besides I cannot take a man seriously with a last name like that, Mr. H. I am trolling, trolling trolling...keep them blogger trolling.

'I stand by the pillars of Hercules'.

'Atlantic means Sea of Atlas'. Altantis therefore means place of Atlas.

Atlas Shrugged. Trains....rolling down the track. (If you read that boring book, you would totally get that reference).

Reply
Kal
11/16/2016 02:02:16 pm

Ayn Rand would have liked the fringe, and the tea party bigwigs who have invested in her books and keep going on about how awesome and ahead of her time she was! Trains. Ha hah.

Reply
V
11/16/2016 02:24:41 pm

...and no acknowledgement at all of the possibility that being specialized to a particular environment that rapidly diminished to the point of not being able to sustain a viable population played a role in the extinction of mastodons and mammoths? I mean, yes, I know there was a fossil population of mammoths in Siberia until a few hundred years ago, but seriously. Extinction events are not a Boolean phenomenon. There are multiple possible causes for any given extinction event, and "comet/asteroid strike" and "human intervention" are only two of them.

Reply
E.P. Grondine
11/16/2016 11:42:03 pm

Hi V. -

The Wrangel Island mammoth were about the size of large dogs.

There were 43 species of megafauna around the globe who all starved into extinction in the impact caused climate collapse that occurred at 10,800 BCE.

While Clovis toolkit had helped to reduce mammoth and mastodon populations, the extinction was impact induced.

Any more rationalizations you would care to bring up in your denial?

Reply
V
11/17/2016 08:02:02 am

Evidence for an impact causing climate change was not particularly strong the last time I looked into it. Please give me sources that definitively prove that an impact caused the climate change before you throw out accusations of "rationalization." (And what, precisely, am I supposed to be in denial OF?)

Furthermore, my point was that there are more than two possible causes for any extinction event, not that impacts can't cause extinctions. Are you incapable of reading comprehension, seeing as how I OUTRIGHT STATED this, in so many words?

E.P. Grondine
11/16/2016 08:36:50 pm

"Sadly, the new material is mostly a sustained attack on skeptics."
“They just try to explain away the new evidence,”

The problem that occurred was that Morrison used his sceptical contacts to block work on cometary impact and Clube and Nepiers work. He also may have abused his reviewer status for academic publishing by not disclosing that he had a definitive view on cometary impact, a dog in the fight, so to speak, and not a neutral party..

Another problem was the death of Gene Shoemaker.

Then you have the G*d Damned Fucking Mars Nuts, manned flight to Mars Utopianists, who view the NASA budget as theirs to spend entirely on manned flight to Mars. Manned flight to Mars is a whole lot more fun than accepting that impact presents a severe threat, and dealing with it.Their answer to everything is manned flight to Mars, and their solution for the impact hazard is to fly a handful of people to Mars.

Thus there is this data, which the sceptics claim does not exist, on which Hancock can hang his bizarre "archaeology"..

"The only “new” material was the request for cash that Hancock made multiple times on behalf of the Comet Research Group, which is crowdsourcing cash to look for evidence that a comet destroyed Atlantis.

"Well, not really. Technically, they are researching the role comets play in human history; Hancock identifies this with Atlantis."

The largest amount of money George is seeking is for archaeological work on a major site in southern Jordan, near to conjectured locations of the biblical Sodom and Gomorrah.

Yes, Hancock combines bad archaeology and horrible ethnology with impact events. He elides several different impact events and the memories of them.. He is trying to plave them in his existin worldview. He can also beg several million people for donations.

"Do I get to pick which ones are “memories” and which are just made up?"

Sorry, Jason, but no, you do not.

Memories agree with the archaeological, geological, physics and paleo-climate data.

Myths do not. You have to remember that ancient peoples had their own belief systems and "physics" and they put their memories in those terms. They certainly did not use the modern scientific terms "asteroids" and "comets".

I spent most of 2012 assuring folks that nothing was going to hit, and describing Mayan studies about what the Maya actually said,
as well as discussing the correlation problem for their calendar.

They also had to explain in their own systems why such terrible events occurred. Usually, it was because those hit were "evil".

In a tip of the hat to TM here, Jason, have you ever thought why Europeans place G*d is in Heaven?

I

Reply
V
11/17/2016 08:13:48 am

"Thus there is this data, which the sceptics claim does not exist, on which Hancock can hang his bizarre "archaeology".."

I'm pretty sure skeptics have said something more along the lines of, "if it hasn't been peer-reviewed, it's not evidence." So there may be "data," but until it's been vetted, skeptics will not accept it as VALID data. And yes, skeptics are generally well aware that a handful of jackasses pee in the pool for everyone else and abuse the system. And we reevaluate when it comes out that someone has done that, and reevaluate the data...when it goes through peer review finally.

"The largest amount of money George is seeking is for archaeological work on a major site in southern Jordan, near to conjectured locations of the biblical Sodom and Gomorrah...."

The reliability of any group is impacted by those they allow to be spokespeople. It doesn't look good for this impact research group for them to be letting a crackpot drum up money for them no matter how much he gets. If they're a serious research group, good, I hope they can continue their work. But they're going to have to continue to put up with people suspecting a massive bias when they have a patron like Hancock.

"Sorry, Jason, but no, you do not."

Sarcasm, man. Learn what it is. Seriously.

(By the way, the word "asteroid" comes from the Greek "asteroeidēs" which means "star-like," so yeah, the Greeks actually did use that word, and with a pretty similar application, at that. Just so you know. Oh, and "comet" is from "kometes," or "long-haired" and again...pretty much EXACTLY the same usage.)

Reply
Tom
11/17/2016 09:28:28 am

"By the way," you have hit the nail on the head, if ancient Greeks could describe what they saw and we can translate and understand, why not the Maya, the Aztecs and the other favoured peoples trotted out by the fringe as not having the plain language to describe what they were witnessing without resorting to the imaginary linguistic "ability" of the fringe?
Where are the fringe assertions that Plato or Aristotle could not describe what they saw?
Both were aware that stones fell from the heavens, they did not know why, but a stone is a stone, so why claim that other ancient peoples could not describe anything without alluding to the mystical and poetic?
In my view, this is one of the great weaknesses of all ancient alien/civilisation pseudo science,as there is the necessity to read some vastly improbable meaning into a mundane text or description.

E.P. Grondine
11/17/2016 03:53:59 pm

Hi V. -

Thank you. I'll take your word for asteroides . The Greeks had planetes as well. But in their geocentirc astronomy, their understanding of all of them was far different than our modern heliocentic view.

(I'm limited by my stoke, and have pretty much been focused on Native American astronomies, so have not gone back to either ancient near eastern astronomies nor the Greek fragments or observational records. I have also had to deal with Johanes Radloff's terrible work and its consequences; which likely provide an interesting parallel for Hancock.I type these little notes pretty much using my right hand and one finger on my left. If it wasn't for online spell checking, they would be much worse.)

"And yes, skeptics are generally well aware that a handful of jackasses pee in the pool for everyone else and abuse the system."

Yes, but as we know by Chelyabinsk, this is far worse than just a case off a jackass peeing in the pool. We very nearly had 5 Chernobyls from that one.

" there may be "data," but until it's been vetted, skeptics will not accept it as VALID data"

Its kind of hard to dismiss craters, impactite layers, and species extinctions. Data always takes precedence over models, and data always wins in the end. I will also note that people believe what they want to believe until reality intrudes.

" It doesn't look good for this impact research group for them to be letting a crackpot drum up money for them no matter how much he gets."
I agree entirely. (George could not accept that Clovis using people were expoiting the Carolina Bays.)

Thankfully there are other groups studying this hazard. The problem is that after Gene Shoemaker died, the research money he had available pretty much went with him

So we have a failure of peer review coupled with a failure of funding.

Be sure to check out my videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6okoNqmmW4&list=PLQFjoWZeHDMQln37vSd1heFOfte_O_Rhp&index=5

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfn9XzC3A40

sarcasm here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Ch9t6puAk

DaveR
11/17/2016 08:57:33 am

Do you feel better now?

Reply
Kal
11/17/2016 02:51:14 pm

Mr. H. is not going to get 'millions' of people to pay him for his theories and carnival myths about ancients and old civilizations, at least I hope not. Tens of thousands would be sad, but millions would be insane and prove people are incapable of reason at all, well some. Now when he had part of a TV show, sure he made likely a million or so.

Buyers beware.

Reply
DaveR
11/18/2016 07:50:42 am

Sadly I fear you're overestimating the intellectual capabilities of a majority of people.

Reply
Pacal
11/20/2016 02:35:39 pm

Well, well. Hancock just loves to bask in his martyr complex. This is a trope that so many "alternative" thinkers, or should I say cranks, indulge in. The feel that they are like Galileo bravely advancing the "truth" in the face of persecution. Also associated with this trope is the trope that goes - since I am being persecuted I must be right! Thus 'persecution" is evidence that I am right. Well "persecution" simply means that you are being persecuted not that you are right.

Basically Hancock and other fringe writers are claiming the status of virtuous victim. This of course goes with the trope that victims are virtuous. Nope victims are just victims not necessarily more virtuous.

The result is that Hancock wallows in his status of virtuous, persecuted victim and will cling to it. This status enables him to feel morally superior to his detractors and that feeling of moral superiority is of course highly enjoyable. It enables Hancock to feel superior to his many, many detractors and enables him to dismiss criticisms has coming from the morally inferior. In other words Hancock can indulge in a type of ad hominem argument to dismiss his critics.

We've seen this sort before often in the writings etc., of crank, fringe writers. Hancock is simply doing the same.

Reply
Bill Birkeland
11/21/2016 03:23:16 pm

In roughly 45 to 30-minute segments, I listened to the whole three and half hour podcast. For future reference, I took notes of what was said and was quite overwhelmed by this profoundly sad misadventure in "truthiness" as defined by Steven Colbert. Basically, the "Quaternary geology" in this podcast consisted of arguments and assertions made without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts. Some of my favorite examples of such wishing thinking and geological bloopers include:

1. – The largest known flood that occurred on Earth was not any of the Missoula Floods. It was a proglacial megaflood along the Kuray River in the Altai, Russia, region.

2. – The Missoula Flood deposits are not a jumbled chaotic mess. They are cross-bedded and laminated and exhibits well defined layers and internal unconformities, which are frequently associated with paleosols.

3. – Hot Spring Mammoth Site – The sedimentology and taphonomy of this site is well site is well documented and the mammoths in it were clearly trapped in a sinkhole. No evidence of “float and bloat” movement and disarticulation by a massive flood.

4. – The presence within the flood deposits of numerous well-defined unconformities and associated fossil soils (including thousand-year old calcretes), terrestrial animal burrows, root molds and traces, and multiple truncated clastic dikes demonstrate that multiple Missoula Floods occurred. They refute their claim of a single “humongous” flood. Optically stimulated luminescence and thermoluminescence dating and paleomagentic studies of Missoula Flood show that these floods occurred over period greater than 800,000 to 1,000,000 years.

5. – the current data about meltwater spikes 1A – 1B provide no evidence of them being like tsunamis. Also, meltwater spikes 1A predates the start of the Younger Dryas. In fact, the start of Younger Dryas marks the end of Mississippi River meltwater discharge associated with meltwater spike 1A .

6. – Columbia River Basalts not directly associated Yellowstone eruptions.

7. – Valles Cadera, Jemez Mountains, did not fill up suddenly at the start of the Younger Dryas and breach its rim. The breaching of the rim occurred as much as 1. 2 million years. Larger lakes that are younger than that are the result of damming of tributaries by volcanic eruptions.

8. – There an abundance of evidence supporting eolian origin of Palouse Loess. It includes, textural variations, geochemistry, internal unconformities, internal paleosols, optically stimulated luminescence and thermoluminescence dating and paleomagentic studies that completely contradict ideas about impact origin.

If Hancock and others want to be respected, they at least need to learn something about they are talking about.

Bill

Reply
Kmart999
5/11/2017 08:39:41 pm

The largest claim Hancock and Carlson have made in the past(imo) is that a civilization capable of building things like Stonehenge and The Sphinx existed 10,000 yrs ago. That claim has been verified by Gobekli Tepe. That is very tough to dispute at this point.

Their next claim is that that civilization was wiped out by an impact event like a meteor or comet hitting earth. This aspect is still extremely speculative with lots of contradictory evidence online.

There's really nothing more to it. My post may sound like a simplification of their views, but it really isn't.

If you say hunter gatherers built Gobekli Tepe that's fine, the key aspect is that there were groups of people capable of building it 10,000 yrs ago. Whatever label you give those ppl is irrelevent. They were advanced enough to build Gobekli Tepe, and that pretty much encompasses 90% of Hancock's claim. Mainstream always claimed humans weren't capable of such construction that long ago, and they were proven wrong.

Reply
Jason
5/30/2017 02:06:17 pm

KMART999, you said:

"If you say hunter gatherers built Gobekli Tepe that's fine, the key aspect is that there were groups of people capable of building it 10,000 yrs ago. Whatever label you give those ppl is irrelevent. They were advanced enough to build Gobekli Tepe, and that pretty much encompasses 90% of Hancock's claim."

No, it doesn't. He's not simply claiming that some non-specific civilization over 10,000 years ago could have built Gobekli Tepe; if he was he would be in complete agreement with the scientific main stream. Hancock makes a very direct claim about who must have built Gobekli Tepe (and others from that period) and he is specifically against the notion that a Hunter Gatherer type society (the only known to exist at that time) could have been capable. This, by the way, is central to his hypothesis - he says so without ambiguity. Hancock believes that Gobekli Tepe was only made possible with the assistance of an older yet more advanced "lost civilization" (aka Atlantis).

Furthermore, all his discussion of possible cataclysmic events are just an attempt to bolster his almost completely unfounded idea that an advanced civilization could have existed 12,000 or more years ago without a shred of evidence.

Reply
Dave McCartney
12/9/2017 11:02:36 am

I'm (very) late to the party Jason, but are you even aware of what you do on your blog every single day?

Mister Internet Tough Guy, who refuses to make confrontational appearances because of "family", whinging about skeptics being under assault by someone consistently derided as an easily-dismissed crank presents as butthurt whining.

Reply
Kevin B.
3/20/2018 06:55:50 pm

I agree with you. I must have watched a different podcast, because this is only loosely based on what was said on the podcast. When you take into consideration the 400 ft rise in sea levels from the end of the ice age, along with other geological indicators, it stands to reason that a good portion of these off shore civilizations were drowned at the end of the ice age. Add to that the sheer degradation of build quality between the older structures and newer structures around the world promotes an alternative story to what is being peddled by the main stream of archaeology. Graham may not be 100% correct, but using the use of drugs to dismiss his research is asinine. If main stream archeology would like to remain credible, it would behoove them to actually use science to debate the current findings.

In addition, you can see a commonality between the build structure of buildings in Egypt, South America, and Easter Island. It would take great ignorance to not see that these were developed from the same technological base. I came to this website to see contradiction to Graham's claims, but found ignorance. Please take a moment to reevaluate what Graham has to say. You may not agree with some of his claims, but it is worth coming up with critiques of his work rather than attacking his character.

Reply
J.l.s.
11/18/2019 06:08:42 pm

By the way, the Comet Research Group's theory is now being endorsed in Science magazine

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/11/massive-crater-under-greenland-s-ice-points-climate-altering-impact-time-humans


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          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
          • The Asclepius
          • The Emerald Tablet
          • Hermetic Fragments
          • Prologue to the Kyranides
          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
        • Ctesias' Indica
        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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