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Harvard Scientist Speculates about Ancient Astronauts as Surrogates for God, Asks If Their Existence Would Make Humanity More Moral and Responsible

1/29/2019

51 Comments

 
​Note: Due to a number of obligations I have this week, my blog posts are going to be briefer than usual several days this week. I hope you don’t mind too much.
 
Today I wanted to discuss a blog post on the Scientific American website by Abraham (Avi) Loeb, the chair of Harvard University’s astronomy department and a bunch of other impressive titles related to astrophysics. However, despite his extensive career, he is best known to the public for his 2018 claim that the anomalous interstellar object ‘Oumuamua could be a piece of alien technology. He wrote this weekend about the idea—so popular among ancient astronaut theorists—that advanced extraterrestrials would be indistinguishable from God. While he attributes the idea to a variation of Arthur C. Clarke’s third law (first proposed in 1973), regular readers will know that H. P. Lovecraft wrote stories about humans mistaking advanced space aliens for deities in the 1920s, and antecedents of the idea can be found in Theosophy decades before.
​More specifically, Loeb is concerned that humanity may not be prepared to recognize the space rock ‘Oumuamua as a piece of extraterrestrial technology, even if it were one, much as early humans would only have understood an iPhone as a shiny rock due to their lack of a suitable frame of reference. This is of course the same argument Erich von Däniken made in Chariots of the Gods when he suggested that humans did not have the vocabulary to correctly understand the wheels seen in Ezekiel’s divine vision as a flying saucer, and Loeb’s thought experiment is basically the same as von Däniken’s in Chariots imagining how primitive aliens might interpret NASA astronauts. It is also almost exactly the inverse of the crazy claim made by Jacques Bergier in Extraterrestrial Visitations from Prehistoric Times to the Present (1970; English trans. 1973) when he alleged that he had correctly understood a fragment of meteoric iron known as Dr. Gurlt’s Cube as “data collectors of the same type as magnetic bands, but much more highly perfected.”
 
But as weird as it is to see a Harvard astrophysicist turning to the argument style of ancient astronaut theorists to speculate about ancient space alien technology, I was more concerned to see that Loeb doesn’t really seem to see the science as enough on its own. He repeatedly casts the questions of panspermia and interstellar colonization in moral terms. In one passage, he advocates for humanity “seeding” other planets with “life as we know it” to preserve “things we care about” from the destruction that nuclear weapons, climate change, etc. might bring about. That this pipe dream is a jeremiad about contemporary civilization rather than a plan for the future can be seen in the rather obvious fact that even if we did “seed” other planets, thanks to natural selection and the different environments found on even the most earthlike planets, whatever grows there over time will not be “things we care about,” unless you’re really hot for the four bases of DNA and some highly general biological principles. You can’t shoot seeds into space and get a planet of puppies and bunnies.
 
 But look at how he closes his post:
If life was seeded artificially on Earth, one may wonder whether the seeders are checking on the outcome. And if so, the fact that we have not heard from them may indicate that they are disappointed. The experiment may have failed, or we are simply too slow to mature. Well, this may not come as a surprise given the irresponsible way we behave sometimes. Perhaps if we only knew that someone is looking over our shoulders, we would do better. It is not too late for us to find out, by using the best telescopes at our disposal.
​How would you know aliens are disappointed? Or that they could be? Maybe they are just dead. Or never existed in the first place. This isn’t science but morality. Loeb is openly stating that the aliens aren’t just indistinguishable from gods but a substitute for God. He seems to be projecting into the heavens a discontent he feels with the social and political challenges on the Earth, and is all but looking to recreate a disapproving Sky Father to provide a supernatural justification for the social and political changes that are not occurring by normal means.
 
Everyone knows scientists are human rather than purely rational robots, but it is weird to see the quasi-religious underpinnings of the search for aliens so openly acknowledged by someone who really ought to know better than to mix the facts about extraterrestrial life with an emotional longing for supernatural parental figures to solve humanity’s problems.
51 Comments
Joe Scales
1/29/2019 11:15:09 am

And there's the rub. The ancient astronaut theory is a cool idea, and at its base it's just another query along the lines of who we are and why we're here which has been contemplated over the course of our existence. Enter religion, with all the answers. And now that religion is questioned more rigorously, that opens the door for others with answers. Just as wrong perhaps, and probably no better a way to organize society and keep us from killing each other.

Sure we want to spread out into space. Just like any other infection that grows. And we just might some day. If we don't kill each other first.

Reply
Bertha
1/29/2019 11:59:41 am

Aliens are not disappointed. They have simply been following the Prime Directive, also known as non-interference directive". The Prime Directive applies particularly to civilizations which are below a certain threshold of technological, scientific and cultural development; preventing starship crews from using their superior technology to impose their own values or ideals on them.

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
1/29/2019 11:25:40 pm

Even on Star Trek the Federation occasionally breaks the Prime Directive or screws up somehow and leaves stuff behind they shouldn't, or their cloaking devices drop unexpectedly, and such.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Reply
Bertha
1/30/2019 03:25:27 am

Exactly how it is happening on Earth.

Rationalist
1/29/2019 01:06:55 pm

Life is a freak accident.
Scientists believing in the paranormal & supernatural
Even personalities are not independent but reflect the fabric of the DNA - Ted Bundy was programmed to be who he was by virtue of the DNA he was born with.
LOL

Reply
V
1/30/2019 11:29:02 am

No. DNA is potential, not sole determinant. Environmental factors strongly play a role. While genetics puts down something of a base, experience does far, far more to shape one's reactions than genetics. Ted Bundy was a product of nature AND nurture, not solely "nature." He was not predetermined from birth to be a serial killer; he still made the choice to do it. There will never be an easy DNA scan to determine criminality, the way your stance implies, because it's already well known that every serial killer has a "trigger" event. No trigger, no serial killer. And that definitively busts the "DNA is the sole determinant" hypothesis.

Reply
Uncle Ron
1/29/2019 02:22:46 pm

This idea that space aliens are/could be more "moral" than we Earthlings is a pipedream. We created our ideas of morality to suit our needs. They are not innate in the universe at large.

Whether it developed independently on Earth or was pan-spermed, I cannot imagine life developing anywhere where it does not eventually become competitive, thus leading to evolution. Survival of the fittest is the principle which obtains once a species meets an obstacle to its continued numerical expansion; e.g. limited physical space or food supply, a competing species, environmental change, etc.

Later we invent morality which, on this planet, generally means allowing weaker members of our species to survive at the expense of the strong ones. Maybe the space aliens never developed that particular ethic. Those who want to contact an alien species should be careful what they wish for.

Reply
RATIONALIST
1/29/2019 02:36:14 pm

The space aliens could come to evangelise Planet Earth into their religion, and in the process wipe out Earth's population with its imported diseases - something similar happened between Cortes and Montezuma.

Reply
Shane Sullivan
1/29/2019 02:41:45 pm

But not before we give them syphilis.

Jim
1/29/2019 03:39:26 pm

Speak for yourself.

David Evans
1/29/2019 05:42:02 pm

We only have one example of the evolution of technically skilled intelligent life. The principle of mediocrity suggests that if there are other examples, some of them at least will be better than us. It's been suggested that if a carnivorous species evolved intelligence it would have better mechanisms than we do to avoid killing each other. Or a species otherwise like us might have evolved in an environment which placed a higher premium on co-operation.

I think if we met such a species it would be natural to admire them and to wish to emulate them. We could do that without regarding them as gods.

Reply
V
1/30/2019 11:36:59 am

We have at least three. We only have one that's still LIVING. Don't really have any evidence that our ancestors saw Neanderthals as gods, nor that Neanderthals were more moral than h. sap. Don't think we ever will, since morality is at least partially relative, so what WE think of as "greater morality" might be seen as the worst of sinners by some other group. Hell, that happens right on our own planet--conservative Christians finding homosexuality to be a horrendous damning sin, and others seeing hating people for being gay as the depths of sin. That kind of clash is honestly far more likely than "they are perfect in their morals." Or else, what a friend of mine used to call "blue and apple morality"--the questions that concern the two groups on a moral reasoning level are just completely foreign to one another and can't even be compared.

An Anonymous Nerd
1/29/2019 11:23:53 pm

[morality which, on this planet, generally means allowing weaker members of our species to survive at the expense of the strong ones]

One of those assertions that's thrown out there casually as though it were not a separate premise. Especially the "at the expense" part. The "strong" actually have done well-enough under some moral systems that one might be constrained to wonder the opposite.

Either way....Not going to let you just drop that Ayn Rand-like assertion in there without pointing at it.

[Maybe the space aliens never developed that particular ethic.]

Possibly not. I think people like to suggest the aliens might be morally superior because they're bored with the "evil aliens" narrative we see in old-school science fiction. I'm not one that's bored with that narrative, myself. Old-school science fiction can be fun. Though my preference is for narratives that portray aliens as having the same variety we have, if not more. It seems more-realistic and it usually is more interesting.

But the narratives where the aliens are morally superior in some way usually bore me.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Reply
Accumulated Wisdom
1/29/2019 04:42:37 pm

This is the result of tax shelters like LDS, and Scientology with their combined load of Kolob. Mix in some Von Darnicant, Sitchin, and Astronomy personifications taken literally. Dollah, Dollah bill, Yo!

Seriously. How many times are they going to remake Hercules movies before, someone realizes he is the SUN.

Even worse, is that dude spending millions building Noah's Ark. ALL of the Gothic Cathedrals we're built using the numbers from Noah's Ark story. FACT!


Reply
RATIONALIST
1/29/2019 04:53:52 pm

And Noah sold all the excess water after the Flood.

Reply
Accumulated Wisdom
1/29/2019 05:15:33 pm

You don't have access to PBS?

Antiquarian Cool "Disco" Dan
1/29/2019 06:15:34 pm

Anthony, you are a a two-legged hangover. I don't speak Off-my-meds but I will try: Your tortellini makes me anxious. FACT!

Reply
Accumulated Wisdom
1/29/2019 08:38:29 pm

Did the All Knowing One, not know the height of ALL Gothic Cathedrals is 144 units?

Damn, dude/shim you're slipping.

Anthropomorphic Cool "Disco"Dan
1/29/2019 09:06:00 pm

The height of every object in the universe is "144 units" provioded the mental patient picks the right units.

You're the same mental patient who posted this:

Accumulated Wisdom
1/3/2019 05:26:24 pm

As I've been ingesting the information you have so graciously provided, a number of things jump out. Many times, like Beltane, I could see where you were going, before you got there.

For some reason, I am no brilliant mathematician either, you keep getting a value for the diameter of the Moon. 2160
Maybe expand out to a celestial circle.

I haven't made my way back to your post discussing a timing event in January. Could this be timing the rise of the Sun on the 17th?
I have come across references to the sun rising at a special angle on this day over Jerusalem. Always called "The Golden Angle". To be honest... I can't figure out what they're talking about. I have noticed most of the transatlantic voyages start on this day."

Accumulated Wisdom
1/29/2019 09:26:39 pm

The diameter of the Moon is 2160 miles. 2160 years in one Great Month
2160 * 12 = 25,920.
Therefore, 72 years equals 1 degree of Precession.

The Gothic Cathedrals are different in height. Due to different measuring units being used. All of these heights are demonstrated to be 144 units.
PBS offers more than Seaseme Street, dude. Tune in to more than Elmo.

So...When did Benedict Arnold start using Pentadic numbers on his windmill? Was this before, or after he apparently decided to disquise the structure?

Acerbic Cool "Disco" Dan
1/29/2019 10:21:13 pm

P Prove your
B Bull
S Shit

You are stupider than anyone person has a right to be Anthony.

"I think I saw it on TV" is not proof.

And Another Thing Cool "Disco" Dan
1/29/2019 11:52:05 pm

And where do you get this "pentadic numbers" thing? If there were pentadic (runic) numbers on the Newport Tower Wolter would have mentioned it.

You, on the other hand, are just making shit up.

Accumulated Wisdom
1/30/2019 02:00:35 am

Probably because, I just shared some of them with Patrick Shekelton yesterday. After following the links, he has provided for FREE, I came across his posting of Pentadic numbers on the Tower dating back to 1946! This is when, I knew what I had been seeing glimpses of for years, was ACTUALLY THERE!

I have already sank your Battleship, Fucktard. You are just too much of Schmuck to figure it out.

CHECKMATE, BITCH!

Sincerely,

The Loony, Idiot, or whatever name you and Joey Putz have called me.

I am done with this blog until, I come back to piss on your ashes, LOSER!


To All of the good people posting here. Quit listening to these cockweasels. They are full of shit!

Ambiguous Cool "Disco" Dan
1/30/2019 02:49:51 am

So imaginary links in your mind?

Usually when someone says "CHECKMATE, BITCH!" they post actual evidence.

This strikes me as more of Anthony Warren's heterosexual bipolar faggotry.

What do we think? Usually "within 24 hours" is a safe bet.

Sad.

Joe Scales
1/30/2019 09:59:09 am

"The Loony, Idiot, or whatever name you and Joey Putz have called me."

For the record, I've pointed out the fact that you are both a lunatic and an imbecile. Let's keep things straight Anthony.

V
1/30/2019 11:49:14 am

Um....no? NOT fact? I mean, you say you saw something on PBS, but I took actual art history classes and researched this. The guiding principles of Gothic architecture were height and light, to invoke the grandeur of God, particularly with the advent of stained glass window making. The Gothic builders didn't really care about how many "units high" it was,they only cared about how much colored light they could let in, and about the interior having the shape of a cross with the altar in the crossing. The concept of church-as-overturned-ark is a significantly more modern one. Post-Renaissance, at a minimum, where the concept of "sacred geometry" was "perfect" circles and squares.

Yes, Noah's Ark was considered a type of church from very early on, but actually using it as a source of physical inspiration....not so much.

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
1/29/2019 11:17:13 pm

Sadly there's no ability to comment on that blog that I can find. Perhaps this fellow is not aware of the bad company his ramblings are keeping and I would have loved to have informed him in public.

Oh, before I forget, here's the difference between us finding an advanced, alien communication device and the hypothetical caveman finding a portable phone: Because we have portable phones and other such devices we know that they can exist and can more-easily extrapolate to something similar. "Oh. That's like mine, but better."

Same thing goes for us finding an alien ray gun, spaceship, or the like. "Like mine, but better." The analogy might work if we found a device that does something we do not do. Might. But only if it were as far beyond our understanding as "talking to a real live person who isn't here" would be to the hypothetical caveman.

Ultimately that fellow is just saying to his colleagues, "you're too dumb to realize that that space cigar thingie was an alien device." Just a tad petty, especially for a profession like his.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Reply
David Evans
1/30/2019 11:18:53 am

Portable phones are evolving in the direction of fewer obvious interfaces (wireless charging, no audio socket, wi-fi transmission of pictures). It might not be at all obvious what the function of a dead one was. Something might look the same and be a radiation meter, a vital signs monitor, an artificial telepathy interface...

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
1/30/2019 06:46:08 pm

All of which we could understand, given time and context. Hell even "tool to do something we don't do" is not the same as "shiny rock." Or "magic."

Finding the mysterious alien portable phone, or any mysterious alien device, I think we'd search for as much context as possible, then develop and test hypotheses. That's kinda what science does.

-An Anonymous Nerd

V
1/30/2019 11:54:16 am

Honest truth? I suspect that prehistoric man would not have seen it as "a shiny rock," either. A magic talisman,maybe. A magic crystal, perhaps. But a phone does not look anything like a mere rock, and I just can't see it being described as one, even if you don't have a word for "phone."

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
1/30/2019 06:42:10 pm

That is a good point.

-An Anonymous Nerd

bkd69
1/30/2019 04:04:41 am

"More specifically, Loeb is concerned that humanity may not be prepared to recognize the space rock ‘Oumuamua as a piece of extraterrestrial technology, even if it were one, much as early humans would only have understood an iPhone as a shiny rock due to their lack of a suitable frame of reference. "

Seriously? This is why scientists need humanities courses.
I mean how else would he learn about the fact that the biggest movies of the past decade have been ALL ABOUT how we need a secret government agency managing a team of super powered humans to protect the planet from the threat of aliens and their technology.

And if he had done any research at all in the ancient astronaut/UFO stuff, he would have learned that it's all propaganda being produced to condition us to accept the existence of aliens.

But seriously, when our biggest grossing movies are superheroes fighting aliens, alien robots that can transform into cars fighting each other, and humans building a force of giant battle mechs to fight giant monsters coming into our world through a dimensional rift, well, I'd say any fears that we aren't ready to accept alien technology is unfounded, at best.

Reply
V
1/30/2019 11:58:02 am

I THINK he was trying to say that it might be so far advanced that we might simply not notice that it functions in some way, a bit like not noticing that a decorative rock is actually a security camera. That we might not think it's technology because we use straight-line circuits in wire and electricity, instead of, say, crystal matrices and magnetic resonance. Which is still kind of silly and shows that there's quite a bit of science fiction and even science FACT that he's never been exposed to...

Reply
William Fitzgerald
1/30/2019 06:06:26 am

"How would you know aliens are disappointed? Or that they could be? Maybe they are just dead. Or never existed in the first place. This isn’t science but morality."

About right.

We assume aliens do exist, it can be argued that statistically they should exist. But, so far what is on earth is it: as far as known life, complex life, or intelligent life. This is the Fermi Paradox: aliens should exist, but no sign of it. The solutions can be quite scary. My favorite is the predator civilization: essentially a race that kills all intelligent life assuming it will eventually be a threat to itself. Which is why no other intelligent life announces itself to the Universe, else they going to come 'n get you.

As far as morality, I believe there is a case to be made of evolutionary morality. Our morality was devolved as an evolutionary advantage. Morality helps groups of an intelligent cohere and cooperate against common threats. Of course this doesn't develop a fully formed and complex system of morality. Complex societies did that. But, the evolutionary seeds were planted long ago and forms the basis of our modern sense of morality.

In any case: ​"Due to a number of obligations I have this week, my blog posts are going to be briefer than usual several days this week. I hope you don’t mind too much."

Much appreciated and please continue; in fact, try going for Twitter length, consider it a challenge ;).

Reply
David Evans
1/30/2019 11:25:36 am

"My favorite is the predator civilization"

An interesting interpretation of "favorite". It makes for a good story, as in Greg Bear's The Forge Of God. But it replaces Fermi's question with a different one. If they are the explanation for the absence of aliens, they must have been at it a long time, so why haven't they reached us yet?

Reply
Eirik Sinclair
1/30/2019 06:15:49 am

To all those concerned,

After reviewing the preliminary report given on the Kensington Runestone to the historical society, I must point out that the academic world is in need of help.

The inscription's translation offered up a debate, that ensued, over the words used to describe the inscription... at nauseam. The skerries as transcribed refer to the two sea portals. Hudson Bay and Lake Superior. For 'experts' to search for rocks on a lake is justifiably laughable.

The scholarly embarrassment put forth is known only to true Swede's. For they know the truth, that they possess knowledge, and academics know little if anything else.

Language is taught to the Royal classes. What academics know is when a language is taught to the working classes. Dating by 'experts' shows they are no 'experts'. Especially when multiple forms of languages are used by those denoting a historical event.

For the most part, the report confirmed the truth even though they went through great lengths to find issue with it. 1402 AD.

The Kensington Runestone did not state it was done on behalf of a king because it was commissioned by a Royal Patron, one who would not refer to himself. I stand by my knowledge and of those Swede's still living in Minnesota. It is a historical marker, commissioned to denote a past event. Passed along by those living here until a time in which it would be unveiled. As it was... live with it!

Reply
Eirik Sinclair
1/30/2019 06:59:51 am

It is fact... Norwegians came to America. Mixed with Indians. Returned to Europe as Swedes.

Reply
Eirik Sinclair
1/30/2019 07:49:56 am

Date this Swedish fact, and the professionally acknowledged visitations to America are easily surpassed and destroyed.

Joe Scales
1/30/2019 09:55:52 am

From the Rules of The Internet:

Three unanswered posts in a row = Batshit Crazy

Oh, and the Swedes actually in Sweden have always rejected the KRS since its alleged "discovery". They instantly knew the language was off. As for Geology, the runes carved in the calcite portion of the rock would be illegible after 30 years, let alone 500; whether it was buried or not.

Sorry to have interrupted you before your fourth post in a row. You probably had one ready to go, I'm sure.

Eirik Sinclair
1/30/2019 12:33:30 pm

Swedes in Sweden are not American Swedes. The American Swedes lost in 791 AD and were kicked out and thought dead. They came from, and went back to America. It's in your history books, try reading it.

Post says it is a designed fake, just a commissioned item of reality. Like the WW2 memorial in DC that was done more than 50 years later.

Runes in calcite portion are still legible, even after being used as a stepping stone.

Eirik Sinclair
1/30/2019 12:38:50 pm

Runes had not been used in 1000 years when the stone was carved. Person who inscribed the runes had knowledge of three to four Swedish languages at the time of dating. An Era and Time at which runes were no longer used. That wasn't in the report.

V
1/30/2019 12:12:07 pm

No one is concerned. KRS is a hoax. It's that simple.

Reply
Jim
1/30/2019 12:34:54 pm

Exactly !!

https://www.tvovermind.com/10-things-you-never-knew-about-america-unearthed/

Eirik Sinclair
1/30/2019 12:46:04 pm

Jason makes a living off caring about KRS.

The history is true regardless of your opinion on KRS.

It's in the history books. It's in the DNA of Swedes. It's been proven over and over. Your denials have also been debunked over and over.

Go ahead and admit it. You'll feel better.

Eirik Sinclair
1/30/2019 12:59:01 pm

Let me put it all into perspective for a moment so as to test the limits of your mind.

Germans were Greek replicants. The entire German race was exterminated in WW2 by the nazi's who were of the Jewish religion. The American Jews (Ireland, Sweden, etc.) were German replicants. The Jewish religion of today is not comprised of Jewish people at all. Most people within the religion are Islamic, mixed with the Muslim conquerors of Israel.

Why were most of the death camps demolished? Because they were German military barracks. Ragnarok.

Eirik Sinclair
1/30/2019 01:00:57 pm

It is a conspiracy.

I know. I'm half Swedish, half Irish.

Lived it, learned it.

Joe Scales
1/30/2019 01:04:39 pm

Batshit crazy, an imbecile and an anti-Semite to boot.

Gonna step away from the lunatic now...

Eirik Sinclair
1/30/2019 01:08:52 pm

Why do you think the Templars were trying to bring people back to Israel? Answer- they are the original Jews.

Eirik Sinclair
1/30/2019 01:11:08 pm

How can I be an anti-Semite? I am one. Am I against myself?

Eirik Sinclair
1/30/2019 01:38:51 pm

Stepping away... can be considered a hate crime.

Reply
Trygaeus
3/1/2019 05:54:02 pm

I saw this post catching up on your blog, Jason, and I can't help pointing out that your description and critique of Loeb is literally the plot to the movie Prometheus:

A resolutely Christian scientist goes into space to find humanity's makers hoping that she'll find from them the deep secrets of the human condition, who we are, why we are, and who we're supposed to be. She's preoccupied with this because her own father died horrifically on a mission helping the victims of an Ebola outbreak, and she hopes she'll find out there some confirmation of her religious beliefs. Space daddies to substitute for real Daddy and Christianity daddy. The space gods she finally meets are not really the classic Nordic alien, but they are hulking, marble figures out of the antiquities wing of the museum...yet as you observe, they're fleshy, brutal beings just like us. They're not there to hand down the law or elevate us into some new intergalactic age, they're scholars of death, and have nearly wiped themselves out experimenting with weapons of death. Maybe there is meaning in the universe, maybe there are good justifications for morality, maybe there's a god, but it's irresponsible and dangerous to look for those things externally.

Your comment about scientists is also redolent of the film. One of the recurring complaints about it is that the scientists in it are super dumb--too brash, make illogical decisions, use their equipment in dumb ways, make dumb assumptions, are blinded by confidence or their desperation to confirm their beliefs. Obviously being a scientist doesn't preclude one from doing and thinking dumb things, or putting your very cool and smart science in service of woo.

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