I’m sure most of you are getting bored with the various arguments put forward for why the Nephilim, the sons of God, the Anunnaki, or some other group of supernatural super-friends are actually aliens, time-traveling inter-dimensional demons, or what-have-you. But I pride myself on trying to be as fair as possible to alternative claims, and in this case I owe it to L. A. Marzulli and Trey Smith to offer a bit of additional information about the “Watchers” and their kids that helps to explain an issue I’ve had trouble understanding: how it is that the Nephilim-Giants were all killed in the Flood and yet somehow also managed to survive to be the source of evil and sin through corrupted DNA.
As many of you know, I’m most comfortable with Classical material, and the biblical apocrypha is not an area I have encyclopedic knowledge of. When Marzulli, for example, states that he is a biblical literalist, I naturally assume that means that he is basing his claims on the traditional Bible, with which I am familiar. But that’s not the case. Marzulli and Smith both adopt the Book of Enoch, canonical only in Ethiopia, to back their ideas. In Enoch, we read how the Watchers fathered the race of giants, and that these giants were all killed in the Flood. So far, so good. But then the author of Enoch decides that these giants—who in Genesis 6:4 are the famous heroes of old—are not just the sinners who caused the flood but in fact demonic spirits.
In Enoch 15:8-11, God explains that the ghosts of the dead giants will continue to plague and torment humanity until the End of Days:
8. And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. 9. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men, ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; ⌈they shall be evil spirits on earth, and⌉ evil spirits shall they be called. [10. As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] 11. And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, ⌈but nevertheless hunger⌉ and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded ⌈from them⌉.
In the later Book of Jubilees (10:9), this blanket license to the dead giants is restricted to a smaller, more manageable number. God says: “Let the tenth part of them remain before him [Satan], and let nine parts descend into the place of condemnation.” If you enjoy textual literalism, ask your literalist alternative history friends to explain which of these two contradictory accounts must be interpreted symbolically, and why.
So there you have it. While the Watchers are themselves imprisoned beneath the earth, their kids are angry ghosts who wander the earth causing trouble. Thanks to the popular conflation of the Sons of God and/or Watchers with their children, the Nephilim-Giants, the seemingly contradictory claim that the Nephilim descended from heaven, were imprisoned under the earth, were killed in the Flood, and were currently active on earth can be resolved. It’s not particularly elegant as a solution, though, since Trey Smith’s whole notion (one repeated by ancient alien theorists) is that this continued existence takes the form of demon DNA. There is no textual support for the idea that anything physical is involved in the nebulous half-existence of the giants. The punishment of the Watchers, to be bound in chains beneath the earth, tormented by hellfire, is exactly the same as the punishment of the Greek Titans, similarly chained and bound in Tartarus, also for their misrule over the earth.
Here I think it’s important to recall exactly who the Jewish writers imagined the Giants were. In the Book of Giants, we know exactly who they envisioned, for they are named: Gilgamesh, Humbaba, and the other figures from Mesopotamian mythology. (Again: Ask literal interpreters of ancient texts how Gilgamesh can live before the Flood in Jewish texts but after it in his own Epic.) In a broader sense, the Giants, whom Genesis specifically identified as the heroes of old, were similar to the Greek race of the Heroes, who were also believed to have been giants, part of the widespread hypothesis of degeneration, which held that the earth was running down from a bigger, better original state. Some believe this to be inspired by the discovery of fossil bones of megafauna, misinterpreted as the bones of ancestral giants. It’s an open question, though, whether the bones gave rise to the myth, or whether the myth governed how the bones were interpreted.
Why is this important? This is important because the Mesopotamians and the Greeks and many of the other Near Eastern peoples believed that the spirits of the heroes continued to be potent, powerful, and active within the earth. Gilgamesh, the great hero, achieved cult status and even before the time of the writer of Enoch was worshiped as a god. He survived in Arabic lore as the demon Jiljamish down to the early modern period. More to the point, in the time and place where the Enochian writer was composing, the Near East was littered with shrines associated (rightly or wrongly) with the Greek heroes. The Hellenistic Greeks identified the Phoenician god Melqart with Heracles, and they everywhere found (or founded) shrines to the hero Jason, the so-called Jasonia. At hero shrines, they offered sacrifices to the heroes in return for the help of the heroes in various everyday affairs.
We further know from Deuteronomy 18:11’s prohibition on oracles of the dead and the biblical discussion of the Witch of Endor raising the spirit of Samuel (1 Samuel 28:3-25) that such beliefs also existed among the Jews; indeed, 1 Samuel 28:13 makes the witch say that she sees “Elohim” rising up from the underworld, which could literally mean “gods” or whatever creatures the son of God (the binay Elohim) were originally meant to be before apocalyptic Judaism made them into Fallen Angels.
In this context, it seems to me that the writers of Enoch and Jubilees were continuing the process of diabolizing non-Jewish gods and heroes, the pantheon of paganism, a process that recognized the power of these other beliefs but held them to be false idols and demons. It’s an interesting dichotomy between those who held firmly that the pagan gods were demons in disguise (a tradition carried over into Christianity, where the ghost of Samuel was routinely identified as a demon in disguise) and those who felt that they were imaginary. Not long after the compilation of Jubilees, the translators of the Septuagint altered Isaiah 65:3 to say that the pagans burn incense on brick altars “to demons who do not exist at all.” This goes beyond recognizing but demonizing the power of one’s enemies to instead reject the idea that they had any power at all.
All of this is the long way around saying that there is in fact an interesting story to tell about the development of the Watchers myth, and even the strange punishment their children receive, but that it doesn’t have much to do with canonical Bible beliefs, or DNA. It seems to be the story of how monotheistic believers tried to reconcile themselves to a world where polytheists had temples full of wonders and claimed to command the powers of the dead heroes of old in the underworld. In this regard, the newly-developed myth that the dead giants became evil spirits seemingly serves to explain how mediums and witches could call up the ghosts of the dead, and how pagans can receive boons from sacrifices made to the dead antediluvian giant heroes, like Gilgamesh.
11/1/2013 12:26:44 pm
"It’s not particularly elegant as a solution, though, since Trey Smith’s whole notion (one repeated by ancient alien theorists) is that this continued existence takes the form of demon DNA."
11/1/2013 12:29:23 pm
(Whoops, sorry about the HTML tag; force of habit)
8/13/2015 09:34:19 pm
There's no ghost. Only Satan and demons. The dead is dead
7/5/2019 05:31:23 am
What is a denon
Cola Cola, pardon me for chiming in. The answer is not a simple as some may make it seem. Some claim that demons and fallen Angels are different things. Some, based on apocryphal folklore, claim that demons are the spirits of dead Nephilim. Personally, as I elucidated in great detail in my book "What Does The Bible Say About Demons? A Styled Demonology," I think that when the fallen Angels were incarcerated their spirits remained on Earth and we call them demons.
6/9/2018 07:59:43 am
Read man on the goat trail Man in the safari suit by T .Isom
6/15/2018 10:16:50 pm
They were able to materialize and
7/7/2022 10:16:43 am
If Noah's wife wasn't his sons' mum, but their stepmom; then she could have had Nephilim blood. Perhaps she had an affair with Ham and that's why Canaan was cursed. Tradition has it Naamah was Noah's wife. She was a daughter of Cain.
7/8/2022 11:16:21 pm
But inventing any such un-biblical tales not only implies that God failed and the flood was much of a waste but people invent such un-biblical tales exclusively to support one single verse which merely records an evil report by utterly unreliable guys whom God rebukes. Neo-Nephilology is literally based on that that one single, utterly unreliable, verse--Num 13:33.
11/1/2013 03:53:18 pm
Yes, the idea of calling up the ghosts of the dead is a falsehood. The dead are on the other side of a gulf, if you will. That is not to say that God would not allow someone to temporarily cross that gulf, with His permission and for a good enough reason, perhaps in the case of Samuel. But usually, there is a deception taking place, as you pointed out.
4/24/2018 03:25:12 pm
I am certainly seeking the truth as far as possible. But I recently took an interest in spirit medium ship. Although I seem to get fairly impressive messages from spirit mediums on a regular basis I am not really a believer as I am an ex Jehovah's Witness and I still think they could be correct in their teachings. They teach that all these things come through Satan and the Demons(Nephilim) and that the dead are at this time non-existant. My conscience is fast telling me to quit spiritualist churches as no one can prove anything to me.
7/27/2018 09:52:15 pm
As an ex medium, now Christian, I encourage you at all costs to give up the practice of communicating with the dead. It is not life-giving and robs one of time better spent studying scripture and sharing the gospel. Anything God calls an abomination cannot possibly benefit the soul.
8/8/2018 03:51:02 pm
I've been in and out from the Jehovah's Witness organization. Now currently one and I have asked my self why do I go back. Because I too believe their teachings are correct if not they are trying to teach it in the most honest way possible.
1/12/2019 07:30:09 pm
You can't prove it because life is designed for faith. We are to become the Lord's family and you don't just hand over a ferrari to a five year old. They need proper raising for responsibilities.
5/17/2018 11:11:59 am
Thank you. I am a believer and I appreciate boldness and truth when I see someone speak the truth of scripture. I have a few theories (none about salvation, there is only one way) as well as curiosities about Biblical history and how it relates to what we (humans) have found as evidence of our past. Do you have something published or know of a reliable source for our Origin, Rephaim, Dinosaurs etc?
6/9/2018 11:15:00 am
But what about the catholic they believe in ghost,in trinity,in ghost of forefather,they believe in hell!
1/12/2019 07:32:28 pm
"But what about the catholic they believe in ghost,in trinity,in ghost of forefather,they believe in hell!"
ERICKA C WITOVER
11/3/2019 05:34:37 pm
Of course there is a hell. Otherwise what was the point of Jesus coming to us as a man t die for our sins if we weren't all going to end up there upon death? It would be stupid for Him to do that. But it's because there is a hell and he came to save us from going there if we repent of our sins and accept Him as our Savior. Just read the Bible, it's all in there.
8/24/2021 04:58:49 pm
When I was a kill I looked up the word hell in the dictionary and it said mankind's common grave. I'm 65 now. So maybe that helps. I know desires no man to die. I figure that means because you are forever gone.
8/24/2021 05:02:44 pm
I'm 65 as a 5th or 6th grader I looked up in hell in the dictionary and it said mankind's common grave.
11/1/2013 09:00:53 pm
One or more of the wives of the passengers of the Ark are sometimes blamed for carrying the bad genetics through the Flood. In my youth I used to think that the Giants were so tall that they could stand on the mountain tops and "wade" out the Deluge. "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered." (Genesis 7:20) Only about waist high to any respectable "Giant," in my view.
11/5/2014 01:14:17 am
It started over again... all over the earth till the time line of goliath.. too much evidence and monuments....
8/16/2016 05:00:41 pm
your correct and it was Noahs wife... she was like 10' ft tall. they found the ark on Mt. Ararat in Turkey
1/12/2019 07:36:43 pm
The waters rushed up from the earth, along with the rains, and destroyed most of humanity so its doubtful anyone would have had time to make it to the top of the Himalayas, LOL.
11/2/2013 01:26:39 am
Have you not seen Prometheus? The giants melted into the flood of course, and polluted the Oceans with their infectious DNA. ;)
11/5/2014 01:10:55 am
Ya, I've seen it... and noticed that....
11/2/2013 06:10:14 am
8. And now, the robots, who are produced from the code and programmer, shall be called Cylons upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling, or in space. 9. Cylons have proceeded from their factories; because they are designed by men, ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ from the defense ministry is their beginning and primal origin; ⌈they shall be Cylons on earth, and⌉ Cylons shall they be called. [10. As for the Lords of Kobol, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the Cylons, which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling, or in space.] 11. And the Cylons afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, ⌈but nevertheless hunger⌉ and thirst, and cause offences. And these Cylons shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded ⌈from them⌉.
2/9/2019 07:57:26 pm
WOW! That was interesting. What is that all about??
11/3/2013 06:18:17 am
One has to know something about the global Stories of Creation and of the term of "Milky Way River" in order to get the Flood telling right. It is not a great flood historically ON the Earth but OVER the Earth, namely the Milky Way River which is closely connected to the global Stories of Creation and thus also with connected to the Giants.
1/12/2019 07:38:32 pm
Sounds like you're doing a dance.
Gen 6 they mated then and thereafter. In Enoch it states that some of the sons of God hid among the humans to escape capture. Also Enoch states that the sons of God who committed these evils will be released again. Keep in mind in Moses and Joshua days there were more giants. I dont know if I would go as far to say these guys are faking to be aliens but possibly. In ancient days bones of giants were often displayed but the so called church, catholic church, Martin Luther, all theses "councils" that determined what was the "word of God" hid many of these artifacts.
6/14/2017 07:04:55 am
Nothing was hidden. You can still read all the books rejected as the word of God. How they chose which books would be included was if things book mentioned something that another book mentioned and so could be verified. Also if there was only fragments so it was unreadable. Research. Do not assume.
4/4/2019 09:58:35 am
Absolutely.. I understand that the Days of Noah shall repeat itself. I also think their escape was by water as they perished entered into sea creatures called marine spirits, like the Leviathan-dragon. It is known on earth they violated animals and beasts, ate their flesh and drank their blood.
Friend, for the sake of clarity, ensure that you keep in mind that “the Days of Noah shall repeat itself” but only in as far as how Jesus elucidated it. Jesus’ reference to the days of Noah is clearly just about people going about as business as usual while being unaware of coming judgement. And you can know that by reading the whole statement Jesus made and also the one He made in Luke 17 about how “it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
7/14/2022 01:08:15 pm
I agree whole-heartedly with Ken Ammi's comment.
7/15/2022 10:33:21 am
Well then Joseph, you must be right ;o)
8/11/2014 01:00:44 am
Hi, I've been doing research on this for up to 20 years.. and now the truths are coming out. It needs to go public as much as possible
11/4/2014 04:22:43 pm
Hey Paul, Are you able to lead me to your further research on this matter? I'm really interested in learning more, I hope I can find peace in it. Regards.
11/5/2014 01:21:29 am
Hi, one book is the book of Enoch. He started a journal that was passed on all the way to Noah, and was passed through to the Hebrews. It is actually the Dead Sea Scrolls ... they were buried before the Hebrews were captured and enslaved... there is a good reason why the dead sea scroll were preserved..
9/3/2015 06:07:21 pm
HI,, There is so much that happened, being that there was a different timeline before the flood.... and so much has happened... truth of the matter the difference between the Nephelim and regular giants,, is the DNA and Double row teeth... Then, the earth was different , meaning that the atmospheric pressure was different.. and things just got big.. look at the size of fossils like dragonflies and all that existed.. even humans were big... It was a rich Oxygen environment with atmospheric pressure different than now and the shield around the earth protected the first humans... meaning that man should've lived forever... taking care of this earth like it was suppost too.. What I find puzzling why the dinosaurs were created, and by whom, was it the leader of the fallen one, was it part of genetics, and why are they still alive, is it to put man in his place...? We will found out more when the time comes, it doesn't matter what opinions people have, but to give everyone the benefit of the doubt to be proven.
1/22/2017 12:20:20 pm
I have 19 different pages on Face Book under paul Pedrazza.. go there and I'll check u in.. or I think I've made it visible for everyone.. just comment.. La Marzuli does a lot of research on this.. He is friend of mine on two sites. This research of the Nephilem and Rephaim is a big subject... just be careful, there are sites that are fakes, and even some like to take the real photos and change them to something different..... know one thing, that the earth was different in those days, and man was big as well... So any skelleton that is found and is large is not Nephilem, unless DNA and 6 digit hands and feet are found or any abominations on Hybrids
1/22/2017 12:30:21 pm
PS.. when U scroll down.. U'll see UK radio.. skip that and go all the way untill U see Last day events unfolding, and As in the times of Enoch and Noah.
11/5/2014 01:26:50 am
The way things are suppost to be is that we shouldn't be having all this technology we have. The Earth should be stable meaning , no harsh weather, no cities, and every one should have his own place.
9/21/2016 04:50:59 pm
Correct "Demons are the disembodied spirits of the Giants (Nephilim). The 'Mighty Men of Renown' are the Gibborim created by the Watchers when they left their heavenly abode and came down to the daughters of men as recorded in Genesis Chapter 6:4 of the Old Testament. They are half breeds, angelic hybrids, the Titans.
6/11/2021 07:50:29 pm
I thought the Gibborim were David’s mighty men? Nephilim is what the giants and legends of old were called. Therefore, marvel’s series called Gibborim is way off; totally wrong.
Gibborim is just the male plural for might/might. Thus yes, it is a term used for Nephilim, for some of David's soldiers, for Angles, for Boaz, for God, etc. Whether "Nephilim is what the giants and legends of old were called" depends on what you mean by "giants" since the old usage comes from the Greek "gigantes" meaning "earth-born" but the modern usage implies something vague about subjectively unusual height. See my various books about such issues, if you will: https://truefreethinker.com/no-end-books-publications
1/21/2017 09:39:22 pm
I recently thought the term Nephilim just meant giant, or mighty man. The ones in Genesis 6:4 were unique since they were actual hybrids, however the ones like Og or Goliath seemed to be fully human, after all they descended from Noah.
1/22/2017 05:02:04 am
The human mind itself gives names, attributes and qualities to everything on the Sky, and thus it describes the creation as such by both physical and spiritual perceptions "in the mind of the humans".
1/12/2019 07:24:39 pm
"If you enjoy textual literalism, ask your literalist alternative history friends to explain which of these two contradictory accounts must be interpreted symbolically, and why."
Biblically, this is much simpler: the Bible knows of no such thing as post-flood Nephilim nor a return of them—ever.
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