So… at a news conference yesterday the president of the United States defended the Confederacy and said that “very fine people” attended the Charlottesville pro-white rally last weekend, earning praise from David Duke and other racist leaders. Media images showed crowds of torch-wielding Neo-Nazis shouting Nazi slogans (“blood and soil”) and anti-Semitic rants (“Jews will not replace us”), but Trump told us to “believe me” that the majority of attendees were there solely to express support for a statue of Robert E. Lee that was scheduled for removal. “There are two sides to a story,” Trump said, implying that the media narrative about white supremacy was liberal propaganda. It’s hard to find anything else to talk about when Trump essentially hijacks everything to fume over his petty hatreds and to wallow in his own ignorance. At the news conference, Trump conflated the Confederacy—a declared enemy of the United States—with the American Revolution, and he argued that we should not remove statues of Confederate leaders from the public square. Trump’s statements are so absurd in the face of facts that it left me speechless. I can’t begin to address the Nazi material, but I was interested in Trump’s historical view, which is entirely lacking in understanding and nuance but nonetheless raised an interesting question about history: When should a monument be altered or removed? This question has a close echo to the issue of whether H. P. Lovecraft’s image would remain on the World Fantasy Award, an issue that led to a similar conflict between traditionalists and progressives. I must admit that my own feelings on the question of monuments are somewhat conflicted. On the one hand, there are real problems with having the state endorse intolerable ideologies by preserving and maintaining monuments to those who embraced and endorsed them. On the other hand, many of these monuments are more than a century old, and they are now themselves historic structures and historic artworks. Destroying them is to destroy a part of history, albeit not a part I would want to celebrate. The recent ones added in middle twentieth century in a fit of racist pique are new enough that their destruction is no loss. Another thing that troubles me is judging the past by the standards of the present. Some college students, for example, called for the removal of a statue of Teddy Roosevelt from the American Museum of Natural History last year because he held eugenicist and racist views, and there are efforts to remove statues of Columbus and dozens of Victorian politicians. The problem is that no person is perfect, and no person is so uniformly excellent that his or her views will not run afoul of someone at some time. If we make it a habit of destroying monuments every four years when the political winds change, and every time a new issue rises to the fore of public discourse, it will be no long time before there are no monuments left. However, when the right tries to make this argument, they quickly reveal the underlying motives that make preserving these statues so disturbing. I do not agree with the National Review, which tried to defend Trump yesterday with a column arguing that jihadis and the “anti-fascist left” would happily blow up the Washington Monument in the name of ideology. Kyle Smith argued, inconsistently, that Confederate statues should stay because they are unimportant and ignored by all but a few and therefore are more important as history. But the underlying theme of his piece is that racist whites like them, and we shouldn’t upset them because of their historic role in American life. But how much sin must we tolerate in those we place on display as implicit models of behavior? I don’t think there is a good answer here. The Confederate monuments exist as markers of anti-federal sentiment and racism, and that was true when they went up and remains true as they come down. To that end, they form almost a special case because they are monuments of spite, erected by the losers in a war in order to antagonize the victors and racial minorities, something that victors have rarely permitted, historically. Most times, tearing down statues occurs when a former power is destroyed and it monuments are trashed to symbolically destroy the regime. Pharaohs smashed the statues of disgraced kings; the Romans pronounced a damnatio memoriae on failed emperors; post-Soviet states beheaded bronze sculptures of Lenin. The Allies did something similar when they blew up Nazi symbols, and America thought dismantling Saddam Hussein’s statue would reenact this ritual of victory. But I wonder how old the symbols of a failed regime must be before they pass from potent ideological threats to historical relics. ISIS, for example, destroys ancient statues because they claim that they represent pagan faiths and threats to Islam, and the world condemns those actions because no one else sees ancient statues as a current ideological threat. I guess the question is when a statue loses its political power and becomes a work of art, largely devoid of contemporary impact and unmoored from its context. As you can tell, I don’t have a good answer for this. I think back to an old Greek Revival mansion I knew as a child. It was old enough that it had slave quarters from the time when New York still had slaves. The main house was turned into a museum, but the slave quarters were not included. One of the two slave houses became an antique shop (more or less a gift shop for the museum), and the other was empty. It was a fun place to play as a kid when my father would take me out there—he was (and is) an antique dealer. But I can see now that this was the wrong solution. I believe that today the two buildings house an exhibit on slavery at the mansion, which is a better solution. Perhaps there is a creative way to repurpose these monuments to alter their context. I don’t know. I’m pretty sure that Kyle Smith’s solution is the wrong one: He said we should have separate but equal statues to racists and minorities standing near to one another, but segregated. It strikes me that going from a white supremacist statue policy to a Jim Crow statue policy is not exactly progress. What I do know is that Michael Shermer, the editor of Skeptic magazine, in a case of unfortunate timing, spent the same time Trump was pontificating on racism promoting his own new article chronicling his further rightward descent, driven by his myopic belief that college campuses are the driving force in American ideological life. Their ideology barely registers outside of college towns—or in many of them. College students, he alleged, are brainwashed by liberal professors into becoming irrational radicals: Students are being taught by these postmodern professors that there is no truth, that science and empirical facts are tools of oppression by the white patriarchy, and that nearly everyone in America is racist and bigoted, including their own professors, most of whom are liberals or progressives devoted to fighting these social ills. Shermer blamed postmodernism and liberal ideology for destroying faith in reason, and he then advocated for a specific ideology that would use scientific findings to support a social philosophy that we know from his other writings is essentially an idealized version of midcentury sitcom America. I think that both Shermer and the progressive professors have confused the issue overall. The problem is that everyone wants to impose ideology and to police political positions rather than to teach values and ideals that should help young adults to think about how to select political positions. Universities should be teaching students how to develop personal philosophies and advocating for universal values and commonly accepted social norms. “Liberal” and “conservative” ideologies are irrational, contradictory, and full of happenstance positions born of political expediency. They are inconsistent, and no one could reasonably hold all of the positions labeled as liberal or conservative and claim consistency. As a society, we have to break out of this idea that the current menu of random positions held by a political party must be defended to the death because of a tribal notion that everyone else is the enemy.
We literally have Nazis marching in the streets chanting “Jews will not replace us” while the president says that “very fine people” attend their rallies. Joining the right in policing whether college students are too zealous about social justice within the cloistered confines of their remote campuses is hardly an existential issue threatening our survival. To his credit, Shermer seemed to understand some of this, spending last night tweeting about white supremacy and comparing alt-right extremists to ISIS. If only he didn’t seem to act as though campus liberalism was a problem on the same level.
105 Comments
Joe Scales
8/16/2017 10:44:01 am
"At the news conference, Trump conflated the Confederacy—a declared enemy of the United States—with the American Revolution, and he argued that we should not remove statues of Confederate leaders from the public square."
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David Bradbury
8/16/2017 01:35:28 pm
"That is a wholly ridiculous smear"
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Joe Scales
8/16/2017 02:00:01 pm
"Nothing there about why Washington and Jefferson might be next."
Dvaid Bradbury
8/16/2017 06:55:43 pm
As I hinted- evidently not strongly enough- in my comment, he did not clarify the reason for naming Washington and Jefferson in his initial statement, so his intent and meaning were for a time ambiguous. That was a cheap trick.
Uncle Ron
8/16/2017 07:24:51 pm
I hear the remark about Washington and Jefferson live on TV and immediately knew exactly what he meant. Perhaps the media feels that most people are ignorant of the history that gives the remark it's context, in which case they could have used it as an opportunity to educate the "ignorant masses." Instead they use that presumed ignorance to further their disingenuous bashing of everything Trump. That was a cheap trick - on the part of the media.
David Bradbury
8/16/2017 07:34:29 pm
"immediately knew exactly what he meant."
Yousef
8/18/2017 11:27:49 am
Uncle Ron, really? The media? You definitely are a Trumpster. Always fake news's fault, Isn't it?
Z
8/19/2017 04:26:30 pm
Jamil Smith today: "Tens of thousands stage a peaceful rally in Boston against white supremacy, and [Trump] suggests that the crowd is violent. He picked a side."
Americanegro
8/19/2017 05:28:26 pm
From CNN's website: 8/16/2017 09:45:32 pm
As it happens, I was going to agree with you, Joe, that I had misunderstood Trump's word salad rant, until Trump's lawyer sent a letter that endorsed my original understanding of Trump's view--that Lee and Washington were equivalent and that the Confederacy and the Colonies were morally equivalent.
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Only Me
8/16/2017 10:37:49 pm
May I point out the problems with your statement?
Z
8/16/2017 11:15:52 pm
You can read Trump's opinions for yourself.
Only Me
8/17/2017 01:13:18 am
And you can read these, Z.
Steve StC
8/17/2017 10:09:14 pm
14 mentions of the word Confederate on this blog post. So just because it’s fun to know the facts and study history -
Americanegro
8/23/2017 06:26:24 pm
"Number of slaves owned in states above the Mason Dixon Line (plus Maryland which was undecided) in the 1790 census -"
Steve StC
8/25/2017 11:44:31 pm
Reading comprehension much Dumbass? It was still undecided.
Yousef
8/18/2017 11:25:04 am
Wrong. Stop being a apologist for Trump and his cronies. If you voted for Trump then you decided his racist and xenophobic views weren't a deal breaker. Racist much? Joe Scales and Only Me and other unskeptical Fox News viewers, stop saying both side. Are liberals really worse than white supremacist and other assorted bigots? I'm a Assyrian and only conservatives are the ones being racist to me because I look middle eastern despite being born here. I am part of the Chaldean Church but since it's not evangelical or catholic I get hounded by conservatives. Conservatives are insane and bigoted and polls and survey prove it. I expected better from the people here but a Trump supporter is the same anywhere. Sad.
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Joe Scales
8/18/2017 11:38:21 am
I am an Independent and always have been. You have no idea who I supported during the past election. Now please read what I wrote again, and if you have something other than bare ad hominem in response you can spare me the further ignorance on your part.
Only Me
8/18/2017 03:23:31 pm
>>If you voted for Trump...<<
Ken
8/16/2017 11:15:30 am
Maybe statues which have real historical or artistic value should be kept with re-purposed plaques which explain the basis for their value. Such as "This statue commemorates the senseless loss of 5000 Union soldiers and 5000 Confederate soldiers at the Battle of XXX on MM/DD/YYYY ..."
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V
8/17/2017 10:13:34 pm
Counter-protestors and the people who initially petitioned for the removal of the statue are on record--for months--as saying that providing historical context to the statue would work for them, just so you're aware. They were specifically asking for the kind of thing you were talking about--a plaque of some sort with a bit of history as to who this guy was and why his statue is in that spot.
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Rough Draft
8/16/2017 11:53:27 am
Jason, I share your ambivalent feelings about destroying works of art, and I feel that you articulated my attitude better than I could have. Thanks very much.
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Riley V
8/16/2017 12:18:25 pm
I was born and raised in the South. I have ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. They were traitors.
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Joe Scales
8/16/2017 01:24:38 pm
"They were traitors."
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David Bradbury
8/16/2017 01:42:13 pm
If they took aggressive military action against the legitimate government in support of their desire for secession, they were traitors.
Joe Scales
8/16/2017 02:04:26 pm
Secession is an intriguing historical issue given how our union was initially formed, and not as simple as you make it out to be. To the victors go the spoils, I suppose.
Americanegro
8/16/2017 03:26:53 pm
"When in the course of human events..."
Americanegro
8/16/2017 03:45:04 pm
"If they took aggressive military action against the legitimate government in support of their desire for secession, they were traitors."
Residents Fan
8/16/2017 06:22:17 pm
Secession may not have been completely illegal then, but there
David Bradbury
8/16/2017 07:00:50 pm
"Not according to the one place treason is defined, the Constitution."
Not the Comte de Saint Germain
8/16/2017 09:14:27 pm
What Residents Fan and David Bradbury said. The constitution never addresses the possibility of secession, so yes, that was a grey area until the 1869 ruling. But the war only started when the Confederates fired on Fort Sumter. Article Three, Section Three.
Americanegro
8/16/2017 09:35:22 pm
"Really? Lee and Jackson did not "levy war against the United States"?"
Not the Comte de Saint Germain
8/16/2017 09:50:21 pm
As I just said, regardless of the legality of secession, the Confederates in Charleston fired on ships of the US Navy and then on a US Army fort. They levied war against the United States. You could argue that they weren't Americans anymore and weren't subject to treason statues, but if they didn't want to be subject to treason statutes they should have tried to work out the legalities of secession before firing first.
Byron DeLear
8/16/2017 09:50:54 pm
Concerning the illegality of the rebellion -- the Confederacy was a conspiracy against the United States of America -- before any so-called articles of secession, or legislation was attempted, the rebels were violating the direct language of the constitution. The U.S. Constitution shows the inherent illegality of the Confederation -- Article 1, Section 10: "No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation" -- Article 3, Section 3: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them"
V
8/17/2017 10:28:44 pm
The Civil War and its causes and arguments are not a simple and easily-quantified topic. The Confederates were traitors to those who did not recognize their right to secede, and heroes to those who did, EXACTLY like the US founding fathers. And who was the aggressor depends on your viewpoint, as well; what everyone forgets to discuss is that heinous as slavery was, it was also the backbone of the Southern economy, and the North wasn't offering any assistance or plans to alter that in a controlled fashion, either. So one might say that the North failed in their obligations to the Union before the Confederacy did. It doesn't mitigate the fact that the South was engaging in the OWNERSHIP OF HUMAN BEINGS, nor that the only particular "states' rights" they were interested in protecting were the ones pertaining to slavery. All it does is make pinpointing "who started it" and "who betrayed whom" ambiguous.
David Bradbury
8/16/2017 01:19:12 pm
Is it significant that the Charlottesville statue of Lee was commissioned shortly after D.W. Griffith released "Intolerance"- the movie which served as a partial answer to the overt racism against African Americans in his earlier "The Birth of a Nation"?
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Americanegro
8/16/2017 04:54:34 pm
No, Triple D.
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David Bradbury
8/16/2017 07:07:36 pm
Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives?
Americanegro
8/16/2017 09:05:22 pm
Dazzling drizzly dowagers.
TONY S.
8/16/2017 10:26:29 pm
Ok, I just have to ask... what IS a drizzly dowager?
Americanegro
8/18/2017 12:58:00 am
A lady of a certain age, imagined in black and white like 1950s TV with that second or third drink too many in her hand at a cocktail party.
Only Me
8/16/2017 01:31:09 pm
"fine people"
Reply
Residents Fan
8/16/2017 06:53:24 pm
"President Trump did NOT conflate the Confederacy with the American Revolution. He asked a poignant question that apparently struck a chord with you, Jason. It's a fact George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were slave owners, so Trump asked if their statues were next on the chopping block for that reason. "
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Only Me
8/16/2017 07:16:11 pm
No one IS calling for Washington's statues to be taken down. That isn't the point.
Graham
8/16/2017 10:43:53 pm
Sadly to say, someone just has called for the removal of statues of George Washington and Andrew Jackson from Chicago.
Denise
9/1/2017 04:00:21 pm
Just wondering: Was that last quote from Washington's letter to Touro Synagogue? If so that was the time he was trying to put pressure on Rhode Island to ratify the constitution (they wouldn't until the Bill of Rights was written not just promised, they took the separation of church and state super suriously). Rhode Islanders (yes I am a native) See that letter, and Washington's threats of going to war on Rhode Island as different tactics to bring us around. Just some fun trivia.
CJTX
8/17/2017 06:32:56 am
"The question President Trump was asking is simple: where do you draw the line once you start?"
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Riley V
8/17/2017 08:23:23 pm
Exactly right. Would Mr. Trump approve of statues of the Rosenbergs?
Causticacrostic
8/16/2017 01:38:18 pm
Most of those statue were erected to facilitate the "Lost Cause of the Confederacy" narrative.
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Mordecai
8/18/2017 11:06:39 am
True. Joe Scales, Only me, and the other conservatives here are being apologists for white supremacists and racists. If you voted or support Trump then you decided him being a bigot was not a deal breaker then you have to blame yourselfs for this disgusting and pathetic administration. Stop watching Fox News and I know it will be hard since the conservatives here are middle aged or old and/or white. It's sad the conservatives here consider themselves skeptics while getting stuck in the fallacy of a golden age past that Trump made up. I advise the conservatives here to read "The Republican Mind" by Chris Mooney. And no he is not a liberal and despite the title he attacks the left as well. Read it and stop being snowflakes!!!
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Joe Scales
8/18/2017 11:49:30 am
I don't preach diversity. I live diversity. If you can't handle a logical argument Mordecai, and instead have to resort to pure ad hominem, then save it for someone else. However, if you wish to know how I feel about white supremacy, I'll tell you right now that if you march with a Nazi flag, not only do I believe you are asking for a beating, but you deserve one as well. However, that's not how the First Amendment works. That is what is lost in this conversation. So if I choose to properly frame the debate as such, and you can only respond with malice... what does that make you Mordecai? How are you helping to bring us together? Or do you even want to...
Only Me
8/18/2017 08:02:33 pm
I can't take you seriously, Mordecai. I know, in your heart, you WANT me to be an apologist, but I'm not.
crainey
8/16/2017 02:21:55 pm
Two points:
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Americanegro
8/16/2017 03:31:48 pm
"...were slave holders as were all wealthy men of their time."
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crainey
8/16/2017 04:21:54 pm
Point taken. I formally replace "all" with "many".
Joe Scales
8/16/2017 04:29:48 pm
And Jefferson, a known spendthrift, died so deep in debt that his slaves had to be sold to pay them. But it was nice of him to try to free them upon his death, as Washington did. Though some might suspect Jefferson was simply looking out for his extended family...
juan ruiz
8/18/2017 08:25:51 am
"And Jefferson, a known spendthrift, died so deep in debt "
Joe Scales
8/18/2017 09:46:23 am
Sure Juan. It had nothing to do with near constant renovation and redesign of Monticello and all the French wine stashed in its cellars.
Titus pullo
8/16/2017 02:51:03 pm
The mob needs to be appeased. Tear down the statues including the jefferson memorial and throw lincoln in there ad well as he wanted free states joining the union to be for whites. Lets just finish the job and ban all speech that offends the left. Oh and forget any disent on central banks, deficit dpending, govt picking winners and losers in the marketplace, and no more unequal results except for special groups. Hell get rid of the bill of rights and free association. After all the bolshevik thugs who might start with dispecable neonazis wont be happy until they shut up all who disagree with them. Violence is now the preferred weapon of the left. I guess if u disagree you are the modern kulaks. Ill pick liberty and free association not some soviet style diversity state.
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Z
8/16/2017 10:25:15 pm
https://twitter.com/JuliusGoat/status/896326301832925184
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Kal
8/16/2017 07:56:24 pm
The 'left' were not the neo nazi's at the rally, nor do they condone violence. The moderate 'right' does not condone violence at rallies.
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Americanegro
8/16/2017 09:11:17 pm
It is incorrect to say that "the left" does not condone violence. As an anarchist pussy calling himself Legba Carrefour said in this Sunday's Washington Post "It's just property at the end of the day."
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Zoroaster
8/18/2017 10:55:17 am
The anti- facists at one time fought white supremacist. It was when America fought the Nazis. Both sides did bad stuff but one side was to blame and it was the not the Americans.
RiverM
8/16/2017 10:00:02 pm
Bringing and throwing water bottles filled with concrete, feces, urine, STDs isn't violence?
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CJTX
8/17/2017 06:34:58 am
Do you have ANY evidence this actually occurred?
V
8/17/2017 10:36:38 pm
The only sources claiming this are extremely biased sources that have been caught out lying before. In other words, the reliability is extremely low. Please provide documentary evidence, preferably in the form of video.
Zoroaster
8/18/2017 10:51:41 am
At least the left didn't kill anyone. Stop being a apologist for racists.
TONY S.
8/16/2017 10:23:57 pm
Unfortunately, it's not true that the left does not condone violence. A minority segment of Antifa actually embraces violence as a means to an end. They were there.
Reply
Titus pullo
8/16/2017 10:29:03 pm
Just read wapo today. A wonderful article by the so called antifasists justifing violence as a preemptive war. Gosh where have we heard that before. Funny how the article talks about their history fighting franco and hitler but domehow they were awol when trotsky butcherd poles and stalin ukrainians by the millions or pol pot. Sorry but the left terrorists will just impose the same intolerence the neonazis will . Both are a clear and present danger to liberty
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TONY S.
8/16/2017 11:54:17 pm
They're anti fascist, not anti communist. ;)
BigNick
8/16/2017 09:40:46 pm
Political thought is a spectrum, not a coin with two sides. On both ends of the spectrum their are people who want to restrict our rights, both sides have people who are willing to use violence. Moderates on both sides need to retake control of the political process.
Reply
Erickson
8/16/2017 11:02:00 pm
Last night I heard someone compare the statues with the way that concentration camps have been preserved. I'm surprised Trump did not do the same - although it is a ridiculous argument to make. Our history is in the slave markets that are preserved, the slave quarters at Lee's home, the Underground Railroad sites . . . the cemeteries of the civil war.
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Andy White
8/17/2017 10:39:31 am
I agree.
Reply
Joe Scales
8/17/2017 12:35:34 pm
I believe reminders of a time when our country was at war with each other might be something we'd all want to think long and hard about these days. Also the questionable practice of filtering our vision of the past through current mores. Still, I do understand how someone would be offended by lionizing Confederate heroes right in their neighborhood park, given the less noble particulars of that cause.
Andy White
8/17/2017 01:13:10 pm
I understand the visceral feeling of wanting to just tear them all down. I'll probably get skewered for this, but I think these things really do need to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. They are of different things, say different things, and mean different things. The social process of deciding what a particular monument means and what to do about it is important.
Not the Comte de Saint Germain
8/16/2017 11:10:50 pm
Museums do seem the best solution to the Confederate problem.
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TONY S.
8/16/2017 11:11:19 pm
One comment I see pretty frequently is, "By taking down these statues down, you're erasing history!"
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Only Me
8/17/2017 12:24:28 am
Moving the statues to a museum is acceptable. Pulling them down in protest, as happened in Durham, is not. What prevents any group from simply doing the same to any statue, memorial, etc. because they don't like it?
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CJTX
8/17/2017 06:36:33 am
And some of us, including me, condemn that act in Durham for the reason you specified.
TONY S.
8/17/2017 10:31:24 am
Moving them to a museum is exactly what I advocate. This way they can be remembered and viewed in their proper historical context.
USGrant
8/17/2017 12:37:58 am
As far as I know, most of the statues were put up by private organizations, funded by private donors. Over time, local and state governments took over the duty of caring for the statues. The easiest solution is to give the statues back to those organizations or sell them. If someone wants to keep the statue on their own land, then fine.
Reply
8/17/2017 01:18:40 am
I suggested via Twitter last night that 3 options may suffice. In x number of years remove a to be determined number from their current locations to
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CJTX
8/17/2017 06:26:44 am
Sorry Jason, I like you, but these three things are not like the other:
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David Bradbury
8/17/2017 08:42:41 am
I think you may in fact be agreeing with Jason there.
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CJTX
8/17/2017 08:46:16 am
"Another thing that troubles me is judging the past by the standards of the present. Some college students, for example, called for the removal of a statue of Teddy Roosevelt from the American Museum of Natural History last year because he held eugenicist and racist views, and there are efforts to remove statues of Columbus and dozens of Victorian politicians. The problem is that no person is perfect, and no person is so uniformly excellent that his or her views will not run afoul of someone at some time."
Titus pullo
8/17/2017 01:12:06 pm
I dont have an issue if the local communities wish to take down from public land. I do object to forcing or destroying said monuments. And does this stop at monuments or do we start to censor or ban and private property including books or rven free speech and free assembly if the left doesnt agree? Slippery slope
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TONY S.
8/17/2017 08:08:03 pm
Remember that when the right advocates censorship, since they have more of a history of it than the left does.
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V
8/17/2017 10:47:21 pm
The local community had voted in an open referendum to take them down. The white supremacist protestors who were protesting this were the ones who were attempting to force THEIR will on the community...from outside of it, I might add. The vast majority of those protestors weren't even from VIRGINIA, much less from Charlottesville. On top of THAT, the removal of the statues wasn't even going to happen, because there was a court-ordered freeze on it pending settlement of a lawsuit about the removal. Which was ongoing BECAUSE it was a public monument on public lands.
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Only Me
8/17/2017 08:48:59 pm
Oh my. What I feared appears to be coming true.
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Only Me
8/17/2017 10:27:00 pm
First Lincoln, now Jefferson.
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Crash55
8/18/2017 07:07:25 pm
CNN has a chart showing when the monuments went up. There is one spike around 1907 and another after WWII.
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Only Me
8/18/2017 08:41:32 pm
A reasonable approach, but any historicity these monuments have isn't enough. The statue of Roger B. Taney was removed from the Maryland State House grounds after standing there since 1872. The Robert E. Lee Memorial Statue in Dallas, TX was unveiled in 1936 and is facing possible removal.
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Americanegro
8/18/2017 09:40:11 pm
Since FDR had a live-in Soviet spy, yes. "We recognize Robert E. Lee as one of our greatest American Jews..." That work for you?
Only Me
8/18/2017 10:10:39 pm
Since I'm not calling for the removal of statuary or monuments, no, it doesn't work for me.
Crash55
8/19/2017 08:45:10 am
To me the historical value is important. The one in Maryland I would have added informational plaques to. The one in Dallas I would have had removed to a museum as there is no tie between Lee and Dallas.
Americanegro
8/19/2017 06:26:40 pm
"ONLY ME
Only Me
8/19/2017 07:38:17 pm
You're the one missing the point.
Americanegro
8/22/2017 05:36:40 pm
"CRASH55
Americanegro
8/22/2017 05:40:43 pm
"ONLY ME
Only Me
8/22/2017 05:58:30 pm
"and one of our greatest American gentlemen"
Amsterdamnegro
8/23/2017 06:36:31 pm
What I hear you saying is it would enrage you if Roosevelt had said "one of our greatest American Jews" but you're totally fine with "one of our greatest American Christians".
Only Me
8/23/2017 07:07:10 pm
If the last comment about being a "jewhater" was directed at me, it's clear someone is too mentally deficient to be participating in this conversation.
E.P. Grondine
8/21/2017 09:30:21 am
Hi Jason -
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Americanegro
8/22/2017 05:23:29 pm
"E.P. GRONDINE
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Steve StC
8/26/2017 03:45:08 pm
History much Dumbass? Your comment will be posted after it is approved.
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