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In Radio Interview, Scott Wolter Returns to Familiar Themes, Promises New Claims and Evidence at Some Future Date

4/12/2018

251 Comments

 
​Recently, former television personality Scott Wolter appeared on the Earth Ancients radio show to discuss the Knights Templar in North America, and the interview started off about as badly as possible when the host, Cliff Dunning, asked Wolter to describe the “earliest” European arrival in the New World, which established that our host is basically trolling for white pride. This becomes clearer when Dunning returns to the question at the end and rephrases “European” into “pre-Native,” suggesting that he sees the first Americans as white. To his credit, Wolter redirected the question to Native American oral traditions, though these are rather fantastical claims about Native American “world elders” who claim to meet with representatives from every continent in the world every eight years, and have for tens of thousands of years. I need not note that there is no evidence of global confabs in Ice Age America—where communication across the continent was already a challenge, let alone globally—but perhaps it is an imaginary version of the more recent “World Elders Forum” of the past few years that brings together indigenous leaders from around the world.
​A rather lengthy section of the interview rehearses the story of the Kensington Runestone yet again, and the only really interesting part of that discussion is the fact that Wolter is now invoking fringe history speculator Robert Schoch, a geologist, as a touchstone for the “scientific method” he employs. The name-check is interesting because Wolter has taken to citing him more frequently in recent years because of his desire to fold the fiction that the Sphinx is antediluvian into his own revisionist history of the world.
 
After this, Wolter expands on an old claim by creating a demonstrably false one. He now asserts that following the suppression of the Templar order, there was “an organized immigration, if you will, quietly by the Templars” through which hundreds or even thousands of the former knights emigrated to the future United States. “It didn’t start after the put down. It started before the putdown.” This is prima facie false since there are decent records of the fates of many of the Knights Templar, and so far as European records allow for reconstruction of their lives, there are not hundreds or thousands of missing men. Wolter anticipates this critique, retorting that “You don’t have any evidence that it didn’t happen, so we’re even, aren’t we? There’s this thing called the Kensington Rune Stone. There’s this thing called the Newport Tower. [...] So we do have evidence.” Yes, he actually said this. Let’s just make sure we’re clear: We know the names of many of the men who were Knights Templar, and they left traces in the legal and ecclesiastical documents of Europe. Wolter would need to find hundreds of missing men.
 
Having gotten onto a tear about how the public and scholars “don’t understand” the hidden history of the world, Wolter offers that the elites leaders of the Templars were goddess-worshipers, and that they descended in direct “bloodline” relations from the royal family represented by Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene. Since Wolter does not establish a particular principle of descent—primogeniture? matriarchal descent? what?—it becomes impossible to take the claim seriously. It is often said that every European man is descended from Charlemagne along some branch of the family, and Charlemagne lived only 1,200 years ago. After the 1,300 years between Jesus and the end of the Templars, it would be similarly impossible for claims of ancestry to have any more than fictive meaning unless there is a specific and documented principle of descent and evidence that it was followed. I gather that he thinks that the Jesus bloodline were, in the manner of Preacher, incestuous but imagine this: Depending on the rule of descent they recognized, a single infidelity in those 1,300 years could negate all the efforts the conspiracy undertook. It happened to the Romanovs, in all likelihood, and there have been rumors about other royal houses. What are the chances that the Jesus bloodline, should such a thing even have existed, remained fanatically pure for 1,300 years or more? 
 
Wolter also slips into New Age hippie mode, rhapsodizing about goddess worship and repeating a Noble Savage style claim that Native Americans lived in perfect harmony with nature: “Can you name another culture around the globe that has the ability to live in harmony with their environment better than Native Americans?” The archaeological record does not support the idea that Native peoples had basically no impact on the environment.
 
Wolter claims that the Templars simply told no one about their American colony until long after their intermarriage with Native people caused them all to assimilate and disappear from the historical record. That seems wrong to me, since when the Norse established Vinland, news quickly leaked out and spread to the Danes, who leaked it to the guy who leaked it to Adam of Bremen, who wrote about it. How, pray tell, did a continental organization, shipping thousands of men across the ocean, keep all of their friends and family from ever breathing a word about their relatives’ disappearance?
 
Beyond this, it’s clear that Wolter is possessed of a sloganeering form of American nationalism, for he attributes this behavior to the Templars’ hatred of the “tyranny and oppression of the monarchs of Europe, right?” Wrong. There is no suggestion in Templar documents that they opposed European monarchy, and in the Levant they served to defend and protect the Latin Kingdom established by European aristocrats. Similar to the anti-Catholic Americans of the nineteenth century, Wolter claims that the Templars hated the Church that they spent centuries serving, and he alleges that they were advocates of freedom of religion. Wolter explicitly links both propositions to the founding of the United States, which he falsely sees as the only place where anti-monarchical and anti-clerical beliefs flourished. Since he is unfamiliar with European history, he has no recognition of the similar sentiments that drove the Protestant Reformation, the English Civil War, and numerous other uprisings and convulsions before the establishment of the United States, and which served as precedent and model for the Founders of America, more so than any imaginary goddess cult of social democrats.
 
Wolter suggests that academics and government officials are covering up the truth about Templar colonies in America for fear that the Templars would be able to claim America based on the imaginary land claim he pretends the Kensington Runestone to be.
 
In testament to how little Wolter has actually done in the six years since America Unearthed debuted, Dunning directs the interview back to the pilot episode of that show, and Wolter rehearses its plot and his claims from the show for what must be the hundredth time. He spices it up a bit with knee-jerk spasms of outrage against “academics” whom he views as a dogmatic keepers of a massive lie. Dunning, who confessed to having no knowledge of early American history and no knowledge of Christian dogma, nevertheless feels comfortable asserting that academics have both all wrong. Wolter adds that he believes that the World Elders made copies of all the documents in the Library of Alexandria and spirited them off to secret repositories. But, he added, he does not want to “get into it.” Of course he doesn’t want to prove his claims by providing these documents.
 
Wolter also explains his descent into numerology, repeating earlier claims about Masonic secret numbers encoded in the Kensington Runestone but now tying them to New Age mysticism circulating in feminist web discussions about the number 13 belonging to the goddess and 14 symbolizing resurrection, and he declares that Jesus is nothing more than a Christianized Osiris—a claim derived from, but more extreme than, the frequently discussed parallels between the Egyptian and Christian resurrection stories.
 
As the interview comes to a close, Wolter says that the number 8 is also a goddess number, and therefore the eight-sided Dome of the Rock and the round Newport Tower (the Old Windmill) are both connected through secret goddess worship. He alleges that the Templars copied Temple Mount architecture for the Newport Tower (actually built as a windmill in colonial times—though Wolter denies this, claiming that it is structurally unfit for that purpose). Yet the Dome is an octagon and the Tower is circular. He also wrongly feels that the five-pointed stars on the U.S. flag derive from the apparent path of Venus over its eight-year cycle. The actual reason is more prosaic: The Flag Act of 1777 failed to specify the number of points on the stars, and early flag makers used five-pointed stars because English heraldry—which was part of the common Anglo-French culture of the colonial era—used five pointed stars, while Germanic heraldry used six-pointed stars. It was just what was familiar and customary.
 
Wolter finished the interview by urging young adults to “demand” that their professors allow them to pursue conspiracy theories about the peopling of the Americas, and he claimed, rather grandly, that young people will overturn the conclusions of historians and archaeologists because of their belief in alternative history. Wolter claims that he has new information at the ready but “can’t” talk about it, by which he means that he won’t talk about it until someone pays him to do so. “Buckle up baby because the real fun is soon to begin,” he promised, ominously. 
251 Comments
Joe Scales
4/12/2018 10:15:48 am

Wolter abides by science just like the Three Stooges abide by OSHA.

Reply
Raparee
4/12/2018 10:41:11 am

Scott Wolter is an idiot.

Reply
Americanegro
4/12/2018 12:42:39 pm

Preach! He's also "structurally unfit".

Reply
DPBROKAW
4/12/2018 10:06:25 pm

Wolter has talked himself into a position of being to ridiculous to be taken seriously by anybody but the most ardent followers.

Reply
DPBROKAW
4/12/2018 10:08:53 pm

He is starting to sound like Giorgio Tsoukalos from Ancient Aliens. Talks himself into any senecio he wants to believe in.

Reply
DPBROKAW
4/12/2018 10:11:17 pm

That was supposed to be “scenerio”, not senecio.

Reply
Mars Napoleon
4/12/2018 10:55:06 am

Wolter's talk about templar descendants laying claim to America via the Kensington Rune Stone reminds me of an old Carl Barks comic where the villain attempts to do pretty much the same.

Reply
Doc Rock
4/12/2018 10:59:18 am

That would be an interesting paradigm shift. Students can propose all sorts of outlandish fringe theories and the burden is on the professors to prove them wrong. Safe to assume that there would be a constant moving of the goalpost in terms of what would be required to prove them wrong. Serving on a thesis committee is already a pain in the ass. The new Wolter academic paradigm would make dissertation and theses defenses prime material for reality TV.

It would be interesting to ask some of these fringe theorists just exactly what it would take for them to acknowledge that a given narrative that they are pushing is flat out wrong. Probably wouldn't get a coherent answer because there isn't much money or fame in being wrong in this field. But, would be nice to have at least one of them give an honest direct answer.

Reply
Americanegro
4/12/2018 12:18:59 pm

Wolter's already done that; you just have to prove a negative and it's mentioned in the article: “You don’t have any evidence that it didn’t happen, so we’re even, aren’t we?"

Our Scott's Tale of the Templars like his style of dress has a Great White Hunter aspect to it: travel across the ocean to a relatively VIRGIN (Goddess) continent, travel some more, then swap fluids with local ladies who are ready to Christian Mingle.

Reply
Clete
4/12/2018 11:00:46 am

I've said it before and I will say it again. Scott Wolter needs a new television show. The show should be about fishing. He with his fake Master degree could travel across the the country, or even the world, depending on who would fund him and visit rivers, streams and lakes showing us the correct baits to use. I even have a title...Scott Wolter, the Master Baiter.

Reply
Joe Scales
4/12/2018 11:12:42 am

Again with the whole trite thing, eh? No, the show that needs development would be:

"An Idiots Guide to History, with Scott Wolter"

Reply
Jim
4/12/2018 12:39:25 pm

"An Idiots Guide to History, with Scott Wolter"
That's a winner, I would surely watch it.
Now imagine if they had Mr. Potato Head as his co-host. Wolter could cut loose with one of his profound revelations, then have the camera pan over and zoom in on Pulitzer's corn fed countenance for an over long pregnant pause to the sounds of crickets. People would be rolling in the aisles.
Also adding obvious canned laughter and applause would really work.
I just can't see a show like that not working.

Joe Scales
4/12/2018 12:41:56 pm

It also works as a sitcom. He'd of course play himself; never realizing the joke is on him.

Kal
4/12/2018 11:48:52 am

13 or M or XIII is street slang for mary jane, not the Mary line.

14 or N is street slang for N for Narcotics in general.

Also they have other meanings, but here, SW must have taken some meds and was, or is, tripping balls. Just sayin.

The KRS is fake and a hoax.

The Mary line is a hoax.

Dare we say it, SW's entire story...is a hoax.

Let's not give him the time of day.

The absence of evidence makes the impossible unable to be proven.

Hoaxes are not evidence. He names three hoaxes. Therefore, no evidence, and not testible, and not proven.

Reply
Doc Rock
4/12/2018 01:30:16 pm

Unfortunately, this is a strange world where "not disproven" is the coin of the realm.

Reply
Jim
4/12/2018 04:56:38 pm

I like Wolters comment that Native elders were attending intercontinental meetings tens of thousands of years ago.
Pretty much before they even arrived in America.

Native Elder:
" I just spent 22 years slushing through the ice to get here, and you are telling Me I gotta go to Japan for a world council meeting ! There better be Kobi beef and saki."

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BigNick
4/12/2018 05:50:01 pm

13 can also be La Eme and 14 Nortenos.

So if I'm following Wolter logic: Wolters templars brought the jesus bloodline to America, and intermarried with the Natives. So according to his logic, if he proves the KRS is real, then we as Americans might find out Native Americans own the land? Didnt we know it was their land at first anyway? And we might have to give it back? I don't think that's how it works.

Also, this just popped into my head, why didnt they carve a rock in Jerusalem. Could have saved a lot of trouble down the road.

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Jim
4/12/2018 06:11:42 pm

"Wolter Logic" is that like jumbo shrimp ?
Your comment brings to mind the scene from America Unearthed where he told The Blackfoot woman, he was looking for evidence that the early French were absconding with, presumably, Templar land claims, in order to steal America.
He has such a way with the natives, they tell him things that they wouldn't think of telling anyone else.
Such as, there have been worldwide Native Elder meetings for tens of thousands of years.
I wonder what his Native name is ? "Believes Anything" is my guess. The Blackfoot probably call him something else.

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Machala
4/12/2018 11:51:41 pm

Scott Wolter's is called Chief Walking Eagle by Native Americans.
He got that name because he's so full of shit, he can't fly !!

Dunior
4/12/2018 06:03:19 pm

Have never seen anyone so wrong about anything ever. Dude simply makes things up and then defends them as if they are fact. He also liberally borrows from other people cherry picking their more rational views to support his bizarre notions. He does not think twice about borrowing ideas from others and that is being kind. An info thief that does not even understand that which he steals.

I kind of have been getting the feeling in the past two years or so that he is done and I will be surprised if we ever see him on television again. He has never once confronted his critics with anything but denial and hyperbole. Its kind of weird to see a jock boy involved in stuff like this where his motivation is simply winning. Lastly how and why cam't he see that he is following the same occult path as the Nazi's? He even went to Tibet last year to back up the fact that the sign of Mary on the KRS in fact means "ohm" just like a good Nazi would do. Help please it hurt to even read the blog today. ouch.

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Debbie
4/12/2018 06:46:29 pm

I think its pretty funny reading all the comments putting scott down. When did all of you investigate what hes been researching? Have you gone to different countries looking for evidence? No. A lot of us are armchair downers. Too bad too.

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Jim
4/12/2018 07:10:14 pm

ooh,, Scott dosen't even rate a capitol letter with Debby,,

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BigNick
4/12/2018 07:31:17 pm

But has never found any evidence.
And look at his claims:

The templars were hiding the jesus bloodline-
Who cares. How do you prove it. Tell the king of France you have jesus's great grandson and he's going to make the jackoff motion and have you both stabbed.

The templars took those descendants to the new world to assimilate with a different race-
I can't speak for people who think about pure blood lines, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it's done.

They claimed the land with a coded message on a rock-
Napoleon and Jefferson are going to make the jackoff motion and have you shot.

They built the Newport Tower-
If they had brought building techniques to the new world, then wouldn't there be structures found all over the continent


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Dunior
4/12/2018 07:41:27 pm

You guys leave Scott alone. No fair. (Whimpering and crying). Just leave him alone. You guys are so mean. Leave Brittany uh I mean Scott alone. You are so mean I just can't believe you don't believe him. None of you even knows what a Templar is and are stupid for not thinking Native American's are really "Templars." You people have never even read a book about any of this or studied history for thirty years and don't know anything at all. (laughing hysterically). Moohoohoohohahahahahah!

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Doc Rock
4/12/2018 07:47:28 pm

If even part of what Wolter claims was true then it would be quite apparent in the archaeological record right here at home. Visiting other countries to demonstrate that rock carvings or architecture over there is kinda sorta similar to some stuff found here isn't proving much of anything. Its just playing into the image of globetrotting adventurer who is all hat and no cattle. If he wants to work that hustle then so be it. But to act surprised and outraged that it draws extensive criticism makes one look like a drama queen. .

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DPBROKAW
4/12/2018 10:20:57 pm

It doesn’t require leaving the country and or “investigating” to put wolter down (as you put it). It doesn’t even require leaving that comfortable armchair you mentioned. Common sense and access to the internet are enough in this case to disprove or discredit wolter.

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Doc Rock
4/12/2018 11:18:15 pm

The beauty of the internet is that it makes it easy to research the track record of fringe theorists. It is amazing how many times they claim to be on the verge of making an earthshaking revelation, but then the next year they are chasing something else. If I was in the position to make some startling discovery I would be inclined to stick with it.

Jim
4/12/2018 11:31:49 pm

Wolter keeps saying "stay tuned" then complains every time I quote him on his blog.

Debbie
4/12/2018 10:38:41 pm

Alright already. Lol i didnt realize this can had so many worms in it. Lol my phone is making way too much noise. Lol

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Americanegro
4/12/2018 08:43:31 pm

Be advised that the Wolter nonsense doesn't start until about 52 minutes in.

I don't see how the host asking about the first European arrivals is "trolling for white pride". If it is than my grade school and high school teachers were trolling for white pride when they taught us about Columbus and l'Anse aux Meadeaux.

Wolter lies and says he took a "chip sample" when he took a core sample (without permission).

Ohlman says "Nein" for "No" to Winchell. Why he chose to speak German at that moment is a mystery for the ages. Our Scott knows Swedish well "enough to be dangerous" but not the words you teach babies.

It would be interesting to see the 13 affidavits he mentions at the Minnesota Historical Society (MHS). If they exist, because our Scott does lie.

"Pentadic numbers" were not used in Europe according to our Scott.

Wolter has signed off on so many things that are obviously fake I just assume he's always wrong or lying.

Ah, the monolithic Native American beliefs!

76 minute mark: "It only took them a generation or two to marry in".... Where did those generations come from? Sex apes?

Minute 87 he AGAIN claims the honorary master's degree. Scott Wolter is an idiot.





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Jim
4/12/2018 09:24:56 pm

"Ah, the monolithic Native American beliefs!"

He also says the Templar leadership were the ones who worshiped the Goddess, not the rank and file. So, how the hell does that fit with his shared ideology nonsense, when the Templars who were to assimilate into the native culture would have been Christians.

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Americanegro
4/13/2018 01:33:57 pm

And Cistercian monks who by that time were supposed to be celibate.

"The Indians reveal this secret knowledge to me but I don't think they'll talk to you." Shades of Tom the Tracker who studied under an Apache in New Jersey and dare I say it Carlos Castaneda.

If it sounds like I'm saying he's lying, you don't have any evidence that I'm not saying he's lying so that makes us even doesn't it?

Jim
4/13/2018 02:09:24 pm

Hi, We are fastidious Christian Templar Knights from far away. Well except for those guys with their tongues hanging out, they are rune carving Cistercian monks from Scandinavia. Some of our leaders worship the Earth Goddess, so, we will need you to give us about 2000 of your women for sex purposes, okay ?

Joe Scales
4/13/2018 10:22:36 am

" It would be interesting to see the 13 affidavits he mentions at the Minnesota Historical Society (MHS). If they exist, because our Scott does lie."

Which even if they did exist, weren't enough to convince the MHS to side with authenticity. Winchell summarized them in his committee report, but they were all over the place, taken ten years after the discovery and were not affidavits of actual witnesses to the find, but those arriving after the fact in recalling how many rings the tree stumps had. Some held the trees in the area were 30-40 years old, others perhaps more familiar with the area in question (one in the park service), only ten. Guess which ones Wolter swears by?

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Joe Scales
4/13/2018 11:39:02 am

Here's a paper alleging the original affidavits were lost:

http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistoryMagazine/articles/57/v57i03p140-154.pdf

The MHS committee report can be read here:

http://www.archive.org/stream/collectionsminn09socigoog#page/n244/mode/2up

Patrick Shekleton
4/13/2018 01:51:43 pm

Joe,
By executing your own version of cherry picking the facts, you just gave Wolter the win on the specific point regarding the affidavits re the estimated tree age. One outlier data point was 10 years, another was 60 (from recollection). The remaining clustered in the 30-40 year range. I looked at this a year ago. Tendering an argument by only citing the single 10 year estimate is poor form on your part. The affadavits exist, the tree age estimates can be retrieved, and then distributed. If you acceptthe ten year estimate then someone else can justifiably assert, as their belief, that the 60 year estimate is the valid age estimate. Or one can rationally assert the 30-40 year mean is the best position. You have plenty of material to use to voice your disagreement on KRS authenticity, or Walter's assertions on a variety of topics, but on this specific point of argument...you just did the same cherry picking that you attacked Wolter on.

Jim
4/13/2018 02:20:24 pm

Patrick:

"By executing your own version of cherry picking the facts"

"Tendering an argument by only citing the single 10 year estimate is poor form on your part. "

Joe:

" Some held the trees in the area were 30-40 years old, others perhaps more familiar with the area in question (one in the park service), only ten."

Who the hell is doing the cherry picking here !!!!

Americanegro
4/13/2018 02:45:21 pm

Patrick,

It would be helpful if you could prove your first assertion, that "the affidavits exist".

David Bradbury
4/13/2018 02:47:04 pm

Either 10 years or 30-40 years would only have the effect of ruling out Ohman, while allowing one or more of the many Swedish people who had arrived in the area since the unfortunate events of 1862-3 to be the stone's potential creators.

Americanegro
4/13/2018 02:54:54 pm

Assumes facts not in evidence: that the story of the stone's discovery is true.

Joe Scales
4/13/2018 02:58:46 pm

My dear Patrick... you are an imbecile. And thanks Jim for the clarification so I don't have to correct Patrick's hallucination.

Patrick Shekleton
4/13/2018 03:02:00 pm

A.N.,
There are existent affidavits. I will go back and timeline them. Joe is correct that the documents are strewn across the documentary landscape and some were taken ten years after the discovery. They all are descriptive of the 1898 events and, yes, memory doesn't improve with the passage of time, so could conversations between the participants in the ensuing ten year interval have "coalesced" the tree age? That has to be recognized as a possible dynamic. However, it is not appropriate to, speculatively, ascribe a greater level of "familiarity" as a basis to place greater validity on the 10 year estimate. That is cooking the cherry picked data. The affidavits exist, they give a range of date estimates, and they are not decisive by themselves for hoax or authenticity.

Joe Scales
4/13/2018 03:08:46 pm

You know it is humorous Patrick, that you would declare that Wolter wins due to you not understanding the plain meaning of written words. That's your "research" in a nutshell.

"Researcher"... imbecile more like it.

Patrick Shekleton
4/13/2018 04:18:22 pm

David B.,
No disagreement with your point of argument. Well stated. There is the potential for a variety of actors to have originated the KRS. As to which entails speculation, which lends itself to being untestable.

Patrick Shekleton
4/13/2018 04:39:27 pm

Joe,
Imbecile...hardly. On the specific point we are discussing you acceded the point to Wolter because you arguments basis was poorly-shaped. For two years I have watched your comments on this bog and it is clear that you read Wolter's blog as well. In that period of time the tree age has been discussed. Why you chose to cherry pick the 10 year estimate as your basis of argument to gig Wolter is disingenuous. There are so many CRAP arguments on both sides, hoax or authenticity, that it takes years just wade through them and classify which ones have merit and which do not. Your 10 year argument, half-baked as it is, only presents a cherry-picked biased point of view. Present all the data objectively and then if you are compelled to submit a zinger you have done so without bias.

Patrick Shekleton
4/13/2018 05:08:16 pm

AN,

"Assumes facts not in evidence: that the story of the stone's discovery is true."

The stone's discovery elements have never been contradicted. Clearing the back forty, girding the roots, mechanical winching to pull the stump, stone uplifted because the roots were wrapped around it. All very basic and all uncontested. One hoax advocate then asserted that the runic inscription was carved on the spot , while still entangled in the roots, by Ohman. Not a legitimate assertion. The next layer becomes the tree age estimates. Thus far, no assumptions on the timeline. The age estimates were objective considerations of what each individual evaluated the size versus age. This is the starting point of the long-standing controversy. The discovery is pretty straightforward, it is what followed (who did it, why, and when inscribed) that is the fodder for books and blogs.

The facts are in evidence for the discovery.

Jim
4/13/2018 06:25:05 pm

Patrick:

" On the specific point we are discussing you acceded the point to Wolter because you arguments basis was poorly-shaped."

I think you "acceded" the point to Joe because you arguments basis was poorly-shaped due to your not knowing what the word acceded means.

David Bradbury
4/13/2018 06:37:23 pm

One thing worth bearing in mind is that the Ohman plot had originally, when the township was created in 1870, been allocated as "improvement land" rather than being made available immediately for a tenant. In effect, that made it possible to conceal a post-1863 fake runestone until either an opportune moment arrived to reveal it, or its creation had been forgotten.

Patrick Shekleton
4/13/2018 06:50:31 pm

David B.,
Yep, I had read something to the effect that a portion of the property was some type of set-aside. Hoax advocates have used this to suggest that anyone could have salted a rune stone there. How exactly does one test the validity of that speculation? You can't. Potential doesn't equate to certainty. I acknowledge the assertion has been out there.

Patrick Shekleton
4/13/2018 07:03:59 pm

Jim,
Noted. Not the best word choice by me. So let's be blunt...the affidavit's clustered age 30-40 years versus the 10 year outlier age from one affadavit...and the most rational age estimate becomes...the 30-40.

Jim
4/13/2018 07:58:30 pm

Patrick, nobody really cares about the trees age, the point Joe was making that you evidently completely missed was:

" Guess which ones Wolter swears by? "

Wolter only will accept evidence that agrees with his theories, even if he has to make the evidence up. More compelling evidence that disagrees with his fantasies, he casually waves away and pretends it's not pertinent or ignores completely.

Jim
4/12/2018 10:11:17 pm

We interrupt your regularly scheduled Wolter nonsense to bring you this new Marzulli quote.

"They give us pause that the deception goes on unabated to the masses — willing to believe anything without the slightest regard that they’re being taken in. "

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Jim
4/12/2018 10:14:31 pm

Oops, Richard Shaw quote on Marzulli's site.

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Kal
4/13/2018 12:00:53 pm

Not to mention an actual descendant (by marriage, I guess), of the KRS creator who occasionally trolls here to inform them it is a fake.

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Other
4/13/2018 07:28:09 pm

Pat- if you use Scott's statement to determine if something is true, '' you don't have any evidence that it didn't happen'', that is giving the detractors of the KRS concerning the age of the tree the Same level playing field as Scott seems to think he should only have. Buddy, he needs to accept the same.

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Patrick Shekleton
4/13/2018 08:28:10 pm

Other,
I hear you. I know what you are saying. One can't mix implausible bullshit with plausible, factual evidence and then claim that EVERYTHING is factual. It was a strange radio interview.





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Patrick Shekleton
4/13/2018 08:34:23 pm

Jim,
I hear you. I understand the larger point Joe was making. More layers of untestable assertions isn't a positive. I get it. I don't do esoteric.

Jim
4/13/2018 08:47:49 pm

It sounded like Dunning had tuned out Wolter completely, and was nodding off at times.
I don't do Yoga.

Americanegro
4/13/2018 10:39:13 pm

It wasn't "a strange radio interview" at all. One, it was a podcast, two, it was typical of our Scott. He even, AGAIN, claimed to have an honorary Master's degree, which is quite simply an instance of our Scott lying.

Since you have seemingly willfully misunderstood some simple English, let me try to clarify:

Mr. Scales wrote: "Some held the trees in the area were 30-40 years old, others perhaps more familiar with the area in question (one in the park service), only ten."

Reader's Digest: "Some...blahblah...OTHERS [including] one... blahblah."

"Including one" does not EQUAL one.

Joe Scales
4/14/2018 09:06:28 am

Alex, I'll take "Hoaxes Patrick hasn't fallen for" for a hundred...

Jim
4/14/2018 02:53:38 pm

From Joes Link"

"Although the original affidavits were lost, Holvik studied copies provided by Holand"

Holand, now there is an impartial fellow, did Ohman not need a translater for english ? What about Nils Flaten, the neighbor who also had a sworn affidavit made ?
Who instigated these affidavits ? Was a translater used ? If so who was it ?
I have read just a little of Holands book, his whole scenario of the Viking alter rock is nothing more than evidence free conjecture. Much like Wolter he was totally biased and seems to have relied on his own imagination more then actual evidence.
How exactly was he involved with these afidavits ?

Joe Scales
4/14/2018 03:23:42 pm

Holland acted as a translator for Winchell's investigation.

Jim
4/14/2018 04:32:52 pm

Yes, Winchell's investigation, was that the one where Holand was not on the committee but still managed to author part of the conclusions in favor of authenticity ?

Jim
4/14/2018 04:34:02 pm

https://books.google.ca/books?id=taCTBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=Arthur+Ohman+Holand&source=bl&ots=iN7Ja4X_yO&sig=8kDhM57YknrYTPAuNHqz_UZ4BbM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTha70x7raAhXJ5p8KHXTZA9wQ6AEIUzAN#v=onepage&q=Arthur%20Ohman%20Holand&f=false

Page 82

Jim
4/14/2018 05:24:30 pm

Quite the winch to pull out a 40 year old tree, lol

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203035163737814&set=gm.10152726490124059&type=3&theater&ifg=1

Americanegro
4/14/2018 07:30:46 pm

The question that hasn't been asked: Why did no one count the rings?

Jim
4/14/2018 11:54:20 pm

Meh,,, Holand had them cut down some other trees and they counted their rings. It's like comparing the buried KRS to weather exposed gravestones made out of a different sort of rock in a completely different coastal environment. It becomes very pertinent if it supports your asinine claims.

Only Me
4/14/2018 04:08:09 am

I see Wolter isn't having any luck selling his megalithic yarns. Perhaps he should open a coffee shop and offer honorary degrees online.

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Jim
4/14/2018 10:28:58 am

Yikes, don't give them any ideas. His partner Pulitzer could publish course study textbooks like "Things Your Professor Won't Tell You" and "Every Law Ever Written Everywhere" as well as various white papers. And they might bring Roger Spurr on board with his already established Mud Fossil University
The smell of $$$$$$$ is in the water..let the circling commence.

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Dunior
4/14/2018 02:14:24 pm

Look everyone Scott has unleashed his lap dog on all of us here instead of showing up himself to defend this madness. Patrick is only a little less full of it than Wolter himself. "Chronognostic" Lmao. Get a lifestyle. Still laughing. I think Patrick should switch over to defending the Flat Earth Theory. More evidence saying that if real. Patrick has a b.s. answer for all the fakery. lol

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Patrick Shekleton
4/14/2018 08:57:18 pm

A.N.
Great question on why didn't anyone count the rings? Had someone done so at the time we all could have been spared a substantial portion of the conspiracy cottage industry that has taken place subsequently. The stump remained in Ohman's dooryard for a period of time after the discovery but by 1910 it was long gone.

Jim, a similar question should have been asked of Holvik, referencing the MHS report that Joe provided the link for. What is Ohman doing grubbing trees on Flaten's land? Holvik noted the 500 foot estimate of Flaten, cited the irregularity, and then springboarded into his speculative and far-ranging conspiracy hypothesis. Holvik's picture, as described in the article, was entertaining to read about. What Holvik either didn't realize, or didn't point out, is that there were a collection of structures located approximately 500 feet from the discovery site, but which today are submerged under water since the lake's outlet was raised a couple of decades ago. You can see the structure outlines and wagon trails inthe 1950 USGS Earth Explorer aerial photos. There is a survey map from the late 19th/early 20th century that locates a structure in that same location.

Scratch that one element of Holvik's massively speculative conspiracy theory on the KRS.

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Joe Scales
4/14/2018 09:38:16 pm

"You can see the structure outlines and wagon trails in the 1950 USGS Earth Explorer aerial photos."

Are you sure it wasn't a chancel???

Americanegro
4/14/2018 09:42:57 pm

Oh Patrick, I feel you miss the point, but I award you a complimentary gelato, which as you know is an honorary bachelor's degree.

The problem is that if the rings had been counted AS ANY NORMAL PERSON WOULD DO if they discovered something weird in the roots of a tree...

Let that sink in. I'll wait.

... there would be no need to take (non-existent) affidavits from a bunch of randos about their GUESSES on the age of EVERY TREE IN THE FIELD THAT WASN'T THE TREE IN QUESTION.

I hope I've kept this simple enough for everyone to understand it.

To steal from our Scott, the King of All Idiots, all the history you've been taught is wrong. Specifically all the history you've been taught by him.

Jim
4/14/2018 10:02:57 pm

Good lord,,, "What is Ohman doing grubbing trees on Flaten's land?"
The point is that people were lying, or the numbers were incorrectly written down or the whole thing was changed by the translator in a SWORN AFFIDAVIT !!!

"Flaten had sworn that the stone was discovered some
500 feet from his house, whereas the distance was apparently closer to 500yards. Very interested in this point because it could so easily be disproven, Holvik had himself photographed
standing in a field far from the Runestone’s discovery
point. He holds a sign that reads, “This spot is 500 feet
west of the Flaten House and 580feet east of the Ohman Farm, J. A. Horvik.” The distances are the coor-dinates mentioned in the affidavits."

Do you really think that if Horvic would have gotten this wrong no one would have noticed and said something ????

" and then springboarded into his speculative and far-ranging conspiracy hypothesis."

Are you referring to Horvic or yourself here ?

"1950 USGS Earth Explorer" ,,,, Get a grip.

Jim
4/14/2018 10:34:26 pm

Joe, do you know who it was that tried to get Arthur Ohman to make a statement and lie about the stoneholes around the KRS site. He tried to get Arthur to say they they predated the Ohmans and Arthur got mad and made a witnessed statement telling the truth.
Was that Holand ?

" Zapffe interviewed Olof Ohman’s son Arthur and was told that he (Arthur) drilled many of the holes around Runestone Hill for his dad. The reason so many are left unblasted is that the boys were told to get rocks ready for blasting that were too big to move, that is, to drill holes for dynamite, but later when dad came out, some of the stones that looked big to the boys were not too big to move without blasting after all. Also, Arthur said he wasn’t very good at chiseling out the holes so his ended up sort of triangular; he said you had to be pretty good at it to make the hole round."

Comment from Mike Michlovic in Andy's blog:

https://www.andywhiteanthropology.com/blog/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-dojo

Joe Scales
4/15/2018 09:49:10 am

Jim, I'm out at stoneholes. I never got that far into the ridiculous scenarios posed by those in support of authenticity of the Kensington Rune Stone. But getting back to the entanglement, one fact is indisputable. That is that Ohman had an article cut out in his scrap book from a prior European account of the discovery of a carved stone entangled in tree roots. Then he "finds" one too...

Patrick Shekleton
4/14/2018 11:48:35 pm

Was the number recorded incorrectly? Possible. Holvik didn't think so, he felt it pointed to something else. Which lead to him speculating decades ago...and which leads many of you to similar speculation today. Everyone tries to find the point zero...with varying success. I tell you where to find the evidence of structures on Flaten's land and your initial reaction is to pooh-pa it. I don't story-tell...i give you things that you can evaluate and make your own determination on. You can test it. That you will most likely reach a different conclusion than mine is almost certain, but that comes with the territory.


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Jim
4/15/2018 12:05:57 am

You are getting worse than Wolter, The statement said the KRS's was found 500 feet from Flatens house, IT WASN'T !!!!

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Patrick Shekleton
4/15/2018 01:15:12 am

A. Survey map with structure denoted. B. Aerial photo which is secondary confirmation of map illustration.
C. Correlates with 500 foot distance.

Many times families constructed second homes in which the son or daughter's families lived in while remaining part of the larger family. Typically it was the heir who was slated to take over the larger homestead parcel when the deeded owner passed. Sometimes the land was subdivided into a set off parcel, other times it wasn't. Lots of variation. Anyone who studies deed and census records can tell you these scenarios took place. So cool your jets, Jim. The fact that Holvik missed this isn't a big thing. The fact that Holvik spun part of his speculative scenario from this error on his part isn't that big of a thing. The fact that you accept Holvik's account uncritically isn't a big thing, either, because Holvik, then by proxy, Wahlgen, didn't prove that the KRS was a modern hoax. On the flip side, that it is medieval is also not accepted as proven. If either side had an indisputable, rock solid proving their respective position we wouldnt be bantering about trivial shit like tree rings and 500 feet, but we both are. So don't act like you are certain of KRS provenance, because your collective actions denote you don't have that answer, yet. And neither do I.

Jim
4/15/2018 01:57:32 am

Patrick:

"The fact that Holvik missed this isn't a big thing."

"The fact that Holvik spun part of his speculative scenario from this error"

So, it's fact now, because you say so ???
It is a fact that there was a second house ?

Joe Scales
4/15/2018 10:03:07 am

The smoking gun is and always has been the carved runes in the calcite. That was the fatal flaw for the hoax. Whether the rock was buried from inception (a Wolter confirmation bias contingency) or exposed to the elements for only a few decades, the runes carved in the calcite would have necessarily been rendered illegible.

Americanegro
4/15/2018 01:44:06 am

The fact that NO ONE COUNTED THE RINGS suggests to me that it's all a fake and a scam.

Still waiting for Patrick to provide proof of the existence of "affidavits".

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Researcher
4/15/2018 09:10:51 am

Before some of this gets out of hand- John Erickson with also spellings on old Douglas Co. maps, Errikson- did buy the land east of the Improvement Land in 1880. This comes from papers from their Historical Society and Courthouse. He Sold the northern parcel of land To Flaten. Yes, he did build on the south parcel. If you read farther in Zapffe's writing, even Arthur Ohman mentioned him. Erickson also bought a piece of land just N of Ohman in 1890-wood lot, makes sense. He later moved to another land plot, still in the area. As far as I know, no one has looked into his background.

Patrick Shekleton
4/15/2018 06:37:16 pm

A.N.

Some scans of written accounts: https://drive.google.com/open?id=14fKS3_GHtlfWl2BfJb9_Sr549IpVobqZ

Jim
4/15/2018 08:01:46 pm

Hmmm,
On page one Edward says the stone was in the ground and Olaf flipped it over and noticed exposed the runes.
On pages 9/10 It says that the stone came out of the ground with the roots when the stump was toppled and that was when Edward noticed the runes on it.
So which is it ?
My personal opinion is that Holand was so extremely biased in favor of the KRS being genuine that everything he touched should be tossed as evidence. So many conflictions with the statements, and most seem to lead back to Holand.
Holand - 30 year tree age estimate,,,, did not see tree or roots.
Sounds like Holand did the translating of the statements from Olaf Ohman and any others not proficient in English
Holand inserted himself greatly upon the Minnesota Historical Society committee that gave a report favorable to authenticity.

",,,, the linguistic and runological portions of the society’s report were almost exclusively the work of the rune stone’s promoter and owner, Hjalmar R. Holand. Proof of this assertion is contained in the archives of the society at St. Paul, which contain, in addition to several dozen letters on the rune stone by Holand, the handwritten manuscript of the report, and the typewritten version prepared for the printer. Collation of these several items reveals the report’s progress under Holand’s influence: not only was it largely inspired by Holand in the first place, but at his insistence, it was repeatedly excised and emended. In one of his letters, dated May 19, 1910, Holand states: “Inasmuch as your answer to the linguistic objections is in the main a copy from my dissertation [italics supplied], I think it proper that you make suitable acknowledgement.” A bit later in the same letter he refers to “the assistance you have received (free of charge) from me who am the only one yet able to prove the language authentic, which most critics seem to think a very difficult job.” Ironically, the final printed report of the society has from that day to this been cited by Holand and others as an impartial and dependable verdict on the runic controversy. "

https://www.americanheritage.com/content/case-kensington-rune-stone

I think Holand has muddied the water on the circumstances of the finding of the stone and other things so badly it will never clear.

And Patrick would you be so kind as to give us links to the survey map and the Arial Photo you speak of.

Americanegro
4/16/2018 02:15:00 am

"PATRICK SHEKLETON
4/15/2018 06:37:16 pm
A.N.

Some scans of written accounts: https://drive.google.com/open?id=14fKS3_GHtlfWl2BfJb9_Sr549IpVobqZ"

No darling, sweetness. YOU are still on the hook to prove affidavits exist.

Jim
4/15/2018 01:44:08 am

Hahahahaha So now there was a second house ? And although Holvic was standing exactly where it was,,,,,,,,,he didn't notice it ?? And nobody pointed this out or disputed this ??
Are you drunk ?

Reply
Patrick Shekleton
4/16/2018 06:55:07 am

A.N.,
Your Southern Charm isn't going to produce any affidavits, unless they (in their entirety) are in the MHS archives. As best I can determine their were only five recorded. If someone stated that their were 13 of them, then that doesn't seem to accord with the accounts that speak of only five.

Reply
Americanegro
4/16/2018 12:40:42 pm

So... the affidavits, which YOU SAID you were going to "timeline" whatever that means, don't exist. Nice. Why couldn't you admit that from the get-go, from Jump Street?

"All the history you teach us is wrong."

Patrick Shekleton
4/15/2018 10:50:02 pm

Jim,
Your referenced article was written by Erik Wahlgren. This is the same person who wrote an article published in the 1980s on the Spirit Pond Rune Stones where he linguistically interpreted the Map Stone iconography as a Native American female performing a sex act on the individual who, in Wahlgren’s opinion, hoaxed the SPR. By all means, go with Wahlgren as the basis for all of your skepticism on the North American rune stones.

In the April 1959 article, Wahlgren stated this: “A party of ten local residents were at the scene, digging in the thawed ground for buried treasure. They found none. According to the recollection of one of the party, C.W. Van Dyke, the group had estimated the age of the tree, from its roots, as “about twelve years.”” Cherry-picking.

Nielsen and Wolter noted that Van Dyke observed the stump and roots with three other individuals, two of whom estimated the tree to be 25-30 years of age (the third person did not provide an estimate).

“On page one Edward says the stone was in the ground and Olaf flipped it over and noticed exposed the runes.
On pages 9/10 It says that the stone came out of the ground with the roots when the stump was toppled and that was when Edward noticed the runes on it.
So which is it?”

On page 10 it stated that Edward noticed – while the stone was still clutched by the roots of the tree – “some marks on the underside of the stone…” He called his father’s attention to the stone, whereupon Olof “went to summon his friend Nils Flaten.” While his father was gone, young Edward took the axe to the root, freed the stone, whereupon it fell face down into the hole. When Olof returned with Flaten, he then turned the stone over, exposing the carving.

The account on page 1 is not at variance with the account on page 10. They were working to get the stump pulled, it was the end of the day, lots of rocks. The stump came over (“sluffed it up”) with another large rock to take care of. Edward sat down on it, digging the dirt with his hands, and then noticed the carving.

Nothing mysterious here.

According to Nilsetuen, citing Landsverk (1961) ten persons saw the tree and stone the same afternoon and many others from miles around came the next day. A sixteen person threshing crew working at the Ohman farm observed the roots in the same period, and “five men of good reputation” signed statements to the fact (unknown as to when). Nine other men visited in the spring of 1899. [see page 11 of pdf file]

On page 15 of the pdf file there is a discussion about affidavits (O. Ohman, Flaten, E. Ohman, Roald Bentson, & S. Olson). Perhaps these are the five affidavits previously referred to. The interviews were conducted by Dr. Hoegh with Holand taking part. Holand states that Dr. Hoegh “took down three of these statements in writing.” Of course you see the sinister hand of Holand in everything so I will presume that you will assert that since this account is in Holand’s book, Holand is lying.

One of the statements, that of S. Olson, was written by Olson himself. Again, since the only copy of Olson’s affidavit (which I don’t have) is in another work of Holand’s that Holand cites, the evil hand of Holand is once again at work, right?

The affidavits were witnessed by R.J. Rasmusson and George H. Methes, so be sure to include these people in the ever-widening conspiracy.

Copies of the E. Ohman, Bentson, and Flaten affidavits are sent to the MHS by Holand on 27 Dec 1909. These affidavits, and the O. Ohman and Olson affidavits, are included in Blegen’s 1968 published work.
------------
1912 survey map.

Reply
Jim
4/16/2018 12:17:28 am

Your reading comprehension needs some work, page ten says
Your version
"On page 10 it stated that Edward noticed – while the stone was still clutched by the roots of the tree – “some marks on the underside of the stone…” He called his father’s attention to the stone, whereupon Olof “went to summon his friend Nils Flaten.”
Real version:
" Edward noticed – while the stone was still clutched by the roots of the tree – “some marks on the underside of the stone AND DUSTED THEM OFF WITH HIS CAP, WHEREUPON HE OBSERVED THERE WERE REGULAR ROWS OF CAREFULLY CHISELED CHARACTERS” He called his father’s attention to the stone, whereupon Olof “went to summon his friend Nils Flaten.”

Were you being just a little bit dishonest here Patrick ?

My opinion is that Holand was a snake in the Grass.
And I believe both Holvic and Wahlgren saw the same thing, which is why there was so much animosity.
Did he not borrow the KRS from Ohman and then try to sell it to to the Minnesota Historical Society for $5,000 and than $6,000 ?

http://www.in2013dollars.com/1910-dollars-in-2018?amount=6000

Was he not sued later by people that claimed they gave him $2,500 for the KRS, whereupon he claimed they just gave him the money so he could study abroad ?

And leaving the KRS aside, how good of a historian was he ? How accurate was he about the Uden sword being Viking ?,, Not even close.
And his ridiculous notion about stoneholes being Norse mooring stones ? lol
What about the Viking Alter rock ?,, a rock with four holes drilled in it is a Viking Alter ? Have you read his book on this ?,, complete and utter speculation, if I didn't know better I would say Wolter penned that.
Have you any examples where he got something right ?

So about your "proof" that Holvic missed the extra House that Flaten built in the swamp.
Do we get a link to the 1912 survey map ?
Do we get a link to the arial photo ?
Or is your proof for your eyes only ? I cannot come up with any 1950 USGS Earth Explorer aerial photos, they show 4 from 1953 from that location but they are such poor quality I seriously doubt you could make out anything like you saw.
The good news is that these photos are easily linkable so you should have no problem showing them to us.

Reply
Gunn (aka Bob Voyles)
4/16/2018 10:34:40 am

Everyone seems to appreciate the good geologist, Winchell. So, if we may peacefully turn away from trees for a few moments, we may find something impressive: a peninsula-island, once surrounded by a more watery landscape. No, not to support big Viking ships anchored to stonehole rocks. Winchell pointed out a ravine that had been slowly eroding over time, gradually lowering the water level surrounding Runestone Hill. (In this discourse, we may disregard any "modern" attempts to drain or fill the somewhat swampy landscape we see today.)

My main point is to show, clearly, that the site of the discovery of the KRS once fit the inscribed self-description of the KRS's locale...that being Runestone Hill. In this regard, I would like to point out that a modern hoaxer would not have known about what the esteemed geologist, Winchell, found out about the nearby ravine. So, how did a modern hoaxer know to include a more watery landscape in the proposed year of 1362, so that Runestone Hill would match up, geologically, with an inscribed, self-described peninsula-island?

I propose that Runestone Hill was a medieval defensive camping place, serving the purpose of a moat-like environment...a narrow "choke-point" was more easily defended on the ridge leading in from the west, from the Chippewa River. Regardless, we have geology, science, in the form of Winchell, backing up what the KRS itself says about a specific topographical feature of its discovery spot.

This is in addition to a "Lake With Two Skerries" recently being found (Davidson Lake) about a day's journey north from Runestone Hill, up the Chippewa River--the river associated with the KRS. The Erdahl Axe was found in 1894 buried a foot and a half deep under a tree stump more than two feet across, on the slightly elevated west bank of this lake with two skerries...next to a spring-water pond. A bit of ethnological provenance comes in the form of an affidavit signed by an "original" landowner, old Mrs. Davidson herself, every bit as honest as Mr. Ohman.

Geology to the rescue!? Hopefully to help undo some of the damage done by rune-expert foreigners over the years...up to and including today. The Minnesota Historical Society initially ran with the truth about the KRS until foreign rune-experts got involved. But, I think it's funny when particular runes once pointed out as proof of a hoax turn out to have the opposite effect. Case in point: the Dotted R.

As far as Wolter and Holand goes, in my opinion, they both made good contributions to the KRS debate, though they are in error on a number of points, too. I would not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater over wrong takes on some issues. Wolter made great contributions insofar as including many important local evidences in his Hooked X book, and he did manage to bring a new round of fresh attention to the infamous runestone. Likewise, Holand was the first real champion of the KRS, working a whole lifetime to bring it to the public’s imagination, yet he was very wrong about mooring stoneholes…because of not wanting to give up on a pet theory involving Sir Paul Knutsen.

"How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?" - From Doctor Pinero

Peace…I think it may be good to point out that unnecessary personal insults on Jason’s blog are a blight, and probably unwelcome here.

Reply
Americanegro
4/16/2018 01:49:31 pm

"A defensive camping place" is code for "where we're going to be slaughtered" SERGEANT. Erdahl Axe found under a tree? It's funny how so many interesting things get found under trees. It's almost like someone's lying.

Reply
Jim
4/16/2018 02:04:26 pm

Gunn,

"As far as Wolter and Holand goes, in my opinion, they both made good contributions to the KRS debate, though they are in error on a number of points, too."

", Holand was the first real champion of the KRS, working a whole lifetime to bring it to the public’s imagination, yet he was very wrong about mooring stoneholes…"

Both were/are complete junk, pushing their evidence free, made up crap for money and fame. The more I find out about Holand the more lothsome he becomes.
Read Patrick's link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14fKS3_GHtlfWl2BfJb9_Sr549IpVobqZ/view

Page 15
"These witnesses were separately interviewed by Dr Hoegh and the author. (HOLAND) Dr Hoegh took down three of these statements in writing, whereupon they were read by the witnesses and signed."

Right, are not these three affidavits of the witnesses to the finding now missing ? With only Holand's "copies" available ?
Now we know that Flaton's house was about 1240 feet from the discovery site, and yet the three witnesses, interviewed separately, all make the exact same glaring mistake in almost the exact phrasing.

O Ohman Affidavit, "500 feet west of my neighbor's house, and in full sight thereof"

Flaten Affidavit "500 feet west of my house and in full view of same"

E Ohman: "500 feet west of Nils Flaten's house and in full view of same"

If these statements were made in a court of law they would all be charged with perjury. What a freaking joke,the hugely biased Holand translating and interviewing the witnesses.
And then he has his biased fingerprints all over the Minnesota Historical Society Committee report. He later has the gall to, in the words of Erik Wahlgren "cited by Holand and others as an impartial and dependable verdict on the runic controversy. " WOW !!!

Reply
Joe Scales
4/16/2018 03:48:43 pm

Jim, don't let Winchell off the hook. I believe it was Harold Edwards who reminded us Winchell was using 19th century geology. Dick Nielsen also dug up the confirmed Paleoliths of Kansas hoax that Winchell fell for, again venturing outside of his expertise (http://www.academia.edu/3552198/A_Reappraisal_of_Winchell_s_Paleoliths_of_Kansas).

Comically, Wolter dismissed this documented occurrence of Winchell verifying as authentic what would be a known hoax because of course, the author (Reynolds) was dead and therefore there are doubts for its legitimacy. I recall Wolter said something like... how convenient these attacks are from a dead man. Then when pointed to a live man who recognized and built upon the subject matter in question (http://www.academia.edu/3992756/Sterns_on_Winchell_An_Addendum_to_Reynolds_A_Reappraisal_of_Winchell_s_Paleoliths_of_Kansas._), Wolter fell back upon his standard retort of basically... these guys don't know anything about Templars and their Masonic brethren... blah, blah, freakin' blah.

Jim
4/16/2018 04:37:11 pm

I am not very organized, I just look this stuff up as the occasion arises.
On the whole calcite thing, Winchell said it's too pristine to have been exposed above ground for more than 15-30 years, I buy that. But if it was almost protruding above the surface as Ohman was said to say, it would have been exposed to acidic rain water and plant foliage perhaps even more than on the surface due to it staying damp long after the surface rain evaporated and sank into the ground. I mean, it wasn't buried in clay that would have protected it from moisture and it would have been in contact with acidic plant roots etc.

Also what is up with Winchell's (I believe from his notes) saying that there was a hired man present at the finding ? Was Flaten working for Ohman ? Was Ohman working for Flaten ? In which case they wouldn't have been on Ohmans land. Was there another man present ? If so who ? Why was this question never raised in the affidavits ?,,,, oh right,, Holand.

The whole report including the affidavits stink to high Heaven.

Dunior
4/16/2018 11:50:35 am

So shocked to see all this intense debate over something that was obviously faked not long before Mr. Ohman found it. Pathetic that we are even talking about this. Unfortunately this is one subject matter we should just let die and go away. Obviously a failed attempt that was part of a Nationalist movement at the time it was created and 99% of the analysis of the entire thing is bogus. Get a grip people.

Reply
Joe Scales
4/16/2018 12:17:42 pm

Unfortunately, the obvious eludes many. Wolter, who built his Fringe reputation with his faulty historical takes, bad science and penchant for non sequitur in this regard, has actively profited from it. Those that follow on the lowest rung of the ladder and pollute the blog accordingly, can't be helped. They are imbeciles who don't even recognize the industry behind what motivates them. Worthless to argue with them, I agree.

Reply
Americanegro
4/16/2018 12:34:06 pm

Yes. We're not studying snake oil, we're studying snake oil salesmen and those who think snake oil is real. Like Patrick.

In a universe where a fraudulent agate salesman is still claiming a cup of coffee is a Master's Degree...

Jim
4/16/2018 03:13:04 pm

" Worthless to argue with them, I agree. "
No sooner do you kick down one house of cards than they built, than another one springs up;
Patricks,,, Flatin didn't live in his house, he lived in another one that he built,,,,, 500 feet from the Kensington Ruse Stone,,,,in a slough,,,,,because,,,, an aerial photo,,, he won't show us.

Dunior
4/16/2018 10:24:57 pm

I'm sure some of you have read or seen this before. When I checked this out to me it was game set and match that the entire thing was a hoax based on Nationalist ideals.

https://mxdoc.com/myths-of-the-rune-stone-viking-martyrs-and-the-birthplace-of.html

Reply
Joe Scales
4/17/2018 11:24:16 am

Yeah, the KRS was pretty much dead on arrival as a confirmed hoax, but then new generations of promoters enter the picture. Wolter is of course the latest one, who used the notoriety of his petrography business to venture far outside of his expertise to opine in regard to history when the History Channel/H2 gave him a special on the KRS leading up his series.

At first it all seemed so sciency, and he attracted a few folks with real academic credentials, such as Henrik Williams and Alice Kehoe. Then questions started to be asked... like hey, was any of this sciency stuff peer reviewed? Though Wolter will outright lie and say "yes", it is always an equivocation and what he claims never amounts to true scientific academic peer review. And the Dan Brown nonsense... are you really going to there, Alice Kehoe wondered. Then of course came his television series, so rife with error and non sequitur that he became a laughing stock. So one by one, those in the academic world jumped ship, and once again, the KRS remains a hoax.

Reply
Jim
4/17/2018 12:43:35 pm

" equivocation" What a perfect word to describe Wolters musings.
One has to wonder what his real views are, what he truly believes and what hehehe won't say. Mr. Ambiguous !
After noticing his use of ambiguous language, I watch for it now on his blog and my ears always perk up. When he wants to say something so ridiculous that would damage his public image and people really see the true Wolter, thats when he gets all vague, ambiguous and tries to leave a small window of deniability.

Wolter;
" And yes, the “Templar” tradition predates Jesus, who was just one individual, albeit on of the more well known in a long line of initiates."
Me;
"Just to be absolutely clear, are you saying Jesus Christ was a Templar ?"
Wolter;
"These traditions throughout time went by different names. Was Yeshua ben Yosef part of these traditions? Yes he was."

Note how he won't come right out and say Jesus was a Goddess worshiping Templar.
I really, really want to know what he really believes, but he remains mum and ambiguous.

Me;
"you refer to, at around the 26 minute mark, the Templars as "we".
Do you believe you are in fact a Templar ?
Do you in fact worship the Goddess ?"
Wolter;
"You are also trying to put words in my mouth I didn’t say.,,,,,, ,,,you’ll have to rely on radio interviews you obviously pay close attention to, to get answers to personal questions that are, frankly, none of your business."

I mean really,,, why not just say no, I don't think I am a Templar and no I don't worship the Goddess. Unless of course the answers are yes. He has always been cagey about his religious views, and seems to have a hatred on for the church, so, what's up Scott?
I just can't fathom whether he is a con artist, a lunatic, or both.




Reply
JavyLopez
4/17/2018 12:55:01 pm

I'm thinking, "Lunatic". Even a conman has to have some sense of reality to base the con on. This stuff....Just Wow.

Reply
Americanegro
4/17/2018 02:22:45 pm

My take is that he is both a con man and a lunatic, imagines himself to be a Templar, according to his own definition which is that of a 4 year old wearing a sheet for a cape, and feels free to talk about Masonic secrets he has vowed not reveal. I think Blackfriars Bridge would be a suitable ending for our Scott. He leans really heavily on "I was raised as a Mason". Now here "raised" means "went through some rigamarole a couple years ago". It's just a term of art, it's not a lie like his lie that he recently retold about an honorary Master's Degree.

Just because it needs to be said:

Scott Wolter is an idiot.

Reply
JavyLopez
4/17/2018 12:49:35 pm

Now I am really confused. I thought that in "Pirate Treasure of the Knights Templar" Wolter had CONCLUSIVE evidence that the Templars went to Portugal, and, using "secret texts", discovered the different winds and currents that allowed them to open the passage to the Indian Ocean, where they hid all their fabulous secret treasures while flying the Jolly Roger.
Except, I guess, for the CONCLUSIVE evidence about those "other" Templars who, using different secret texts, discovered the passage to North America, where they buried their fabulous secret treasures in a deep, booby-trapped vault under Oak Island, before "pushing on" to Minnesota and leaving "This Land Is My Land" markers under trees, never to be found again until some farmer cut one down, at which point all the OTHER Templars drinking beer and swapping secrets in their Free Mason Club Houses (No Girls Allowed!) would drop their secret aprons and reveal themselves as the Masters of the Universe. And the yet-other-Templars, who were busy carrying the unburied fabulous secret treasures to the Grand Canyon, where they stuck them in a deep secret cave that is posted as off-limits by the US Government. Did I get all that right?
If Not, I wish Wolter would get himself a new show, and 'splain it to me better. This is Fascinating Stuff!

Reply
Joe Scales
4/17/2018 02:02:08 pm

Oh yeah, the pirate treasure of the knights Templar... That's the one where Wolter announced that Saint Anthony was the patron saint of thieves. When called out on it, he blamed it on the show's historian... which HE was supposed to be. You just can't make this up.

Wolter is an imbecilic poseur. Too stupid to make a rational argument and too egotistical to realize he can't. In other words, perfect for television. Rewriting history? Not so much.

Reply
Jim
4/18/2018 08:45:07 pm

In what world does an American geologist not know what and where the Continental divide is ? Isn't it kind of a big thing in North American geology ? Scott thinks it's near where the KRS was found.

Americanegro
4/19/2018 12:36:06 pm

Jim,
Yeah I was thinking "Don't I remember something about the Continental Divide from grade school and Treasure Chest magazine?" Wolter is the stupidest person north of the Pecos. Heck, he's the stupidest person north of Antarctica. And also stupider than a penguin. Stupider than snow.

Only Me
4/19/2018 09:32:05 pm

@Jim

Is Wolter referring to the Laurentian (Northern) Divide or the St. Lawrence Divide? Both intersect near Hibbing, MN, located in Saint Louis County. Kensington is located in Douglas County. It's roughly 224-251 miles between them, depending on which roads you wish to take.

Regardless of which divide he's talking about, neither are remotely close to where the KRS was found.

Jim
4/19/2018 10:09:22 pm

perhaps there are other divides, but I always thought "The" continental / great divide referred to the North/south one that divided the entire continent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Divide_of_the_Americas

Jim
4/19/2018 10:11:32 pm

AN,,,, the stupidest person north of the south pole ?

Only Me
4/19/2018 10:25:44 pm

Jim, you are correct. That's why I'm wondering what the hell Wolter is talking about. I don't think even he can keep track of the fake facts he spews.

Americanegro
4/18/2018 04:54:06 pm

Javylopez, I enjoyed the heck out of that. The concept that carving a stone in the middle of nowhere where you don't control a single square inch of territory, is a property claim, is RISIBLE. Scott Wolter should get the same treatment his father did.

Reply
JavyLopez
4/18/2018 06:32:44 pm

Thanks! Risible...That's Scotty W to the "T".

Dunior
4/17/2018 03:15:46 pm

Scot was up to it again last night on another radio show. Here he reveals more about what he refused to say on the show linked above in Jason's article. He has found the vault!.....but still won't tell what's in it or where it is.....but you must be a Freemason to understand.

https://jimmychurchradio.com/

Reply
Jim
4/17/2018 06:22:22 pm

Thanks for the heads up. It's too long to take in one sitting. Wolter comes on around the 33 minute mark.
I got up to the part Where Merriweather Lewis separated from the expedition in Montana, he and Sacajawea went and met her brother (a Shoshone Chief) whereupon her brother greeted Lewis with a Masonic greeting and flashed the proper colours, the 13 stripes and the five pointed star. Lewis asked to be introduced to the chief of the Blackfeet Indians who were gaurdians of the secret vault.
The KRS has directions to the secret vault.

That's up to the 1:12 mark.,,,Earlier Revelations include;

The bible is allegorical, the people in it are actually stars, the moon, etc.

King Solomon was a Grand Master ! I assume this means he was a Templar.

The KRS site is on the Continental Divide.

His new book is ready to go, this could get very entertaining.

Reply
Jim
4/17/2018 10:56:35 pm

And part two, I could only take it to the two hour mark,, no mas, no mas. I think I no know what it feels like to have a lobotomy, yikes over an hour of Wolter.

Wolter ends (or doesn't) his little teaser fantasy by not revealing anything about the vault or it's contents, saying the evidence is there and it will all be revealed in his book (buy my book)

SPOILER ALERT
Wolter doesn't find diddly squat.

"Scott Wolter is an Idiot"
(Credit AN)
Wolter than says "You know how this will be proven ? DNA !"
Outing his own teaser that the book will have compelling evidence or proof.

Other revelations:

Nine plus three equals twelve, Scott actually gets this right and proves it by getting Jimmy Church to count it out loud.

Thomas Jefferson and the founding fathers wanted to use the megalithic yard as the official measurement for the US, but there was a vote and the foot won the day.
To Late for Washington DC though, as it was already laid out in megalithic yards.

When the astronauts landed on the moon, they opened a Masonic Lodge chapter there.

Claims the Norse linguists and historians etc. got it wrong about the KRS because of preconceived bias.
Said "When you go into a scientific investigation, there are no preconceived ideas."

Jim
4/17/2018 11:09:57 pm

Jeez maybe the Masons were on the moon.

http://tl2k.org/history/

Patrick Shekleton
4/18/2018 10:09:20 pm

1912 survey map: http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/478294/Solem+Township++Kensington/Douglas+County+1912/Minnesota/

Reply
Patrick Shekleton
4/18/2018 10:13:29 pm

USGS Earth Explorer:
19 May 1965; AR1VBEW00010094
04 Oct 1953; ARA001140081068

Reply
Jim
4/19/2018 02:25:13 am

Patrick:
Good Lord, there is no building on the survey map ! All buildings are represented by a small square, small black dots caused by photo copying do not represent buildings !!!

What is so hard about giving a freaking link ???
These are the aerial photos that actually show the area;

https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/browse/aircraft/phoenix/aerial/6MBL/6MBL09051/6MBL09051_100.jpg

https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/browse/aircraft/phoenix/aerial/6MBL/6MBL09051/6MBL09051_099.jpg

Here is your 1953 photo

https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/browse/aircraft/phoenix/aerial/7JBL/7JBL08032/7JBL08032_071.jpg

North is to the left, Kensington is visible near the bottom about 1/3 of the way across from the left
The area in question is on the extreme left of the frame, just to the right of the 114 and below to the two white dash like lines.
You can't make out diddly squat. Don't even try to say there was a building there.

Here is your 1965 photo

https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/browse/aircraft/phoenix/aerial/6MBL/6MBL09051/6MBL09051_089.jpg

North is to the right, it doesn't even extend far enough north to cover the area we are talking about !!!!!

Get real.
Go sit in the corner.

Reply
Patrick Shekleton
4/19/2018 06:57:53 am

Jim,
Relax on the exclamation points...they are giving all of us a headache. On the N.O. Flaaten parcel there are two large black squares. These are residences. One is located across the now-filled lake and is located where a residence sits present-day. The second residence sits off the NE corner of the Ohman parcel. It is the black square that is adjacent to the letter "O" in the "N.O." It is located on the north side of the trail/road that begins on Co. Rd. 15 SW, curves across the Flaaten parcel and past where the residence was located, and then continues up into the Ohman parcel. Someone previously had mentioned that an Ericksen surname was connected with the Flaaten parcel. This connection is almost certainly a good one because Nils Flaaten's wife was an Ericksen. This can be seen in a later Census where an Olga Ericksen, mother in law, is living in the Flaaten family. The black square correlates to being ~500 ft. distant from the discovery location. Holvik was incorrect with his machinations over the seeming disparity on the distance.

Joe Scales
4/19/2018 08:49:36 am

Residences? Or perhaps... CHANCELS!!!

Americanegro
4/19/2018 01:06:24 pm

I find the exclamation marks oddly soothing. I have emailed the helpdesk to cancel my chancel.

The knowledge of how to do alignments I'm sorry was not secret. I could build a shed in my backyard and have solstice alignments in it. So effing what? The idea that a ROUND building somehow POINTS to the KRS is RISIBLE.

Fringe Guy
4/19/2018 12:32:06 pm

Patrick. Do you have a UTM for the location of the discovery of the stone originally? At least a ballpark? Or a link to a map or imagery that has this marked. Thank you.

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Jim
4/19/2018 12:57:18 pm

Fringe Guy; Easily seen on google earth,
Kensington Minnesota - 1.73 miles north - 1/2 mile east - approx. 1 mile northeast on windy road to Runestone Park Barn - approx. .67 miles east southeast on windy trail to discovery site.

Lat. 45°48'39.74"N ,,, Long. 95°39'38.70"W

Fringe Guy
4/19/2018 01:11:48 pm

Thank you Jim. I was just wondering because it is obvious that people have been visiting that site since the early 1860's. There was even a road leading from the east just north of this site and of course the Red River Trail was only about a mile and a quarter to the south. There are likely Section and quarter section stone cairn markers in the area as well. A few other sources say it is a little more to the west near the visitors center. I am guessing the location you gave is where the modern monument is located today? I have seen some very elaborate section markers from the same era in other parts of the country.

Jim
4/19/2018 01:20:05 pm

" I am guessing the location you gave is where the modern monument is located today? "

I should think so, never been myself.

Patrick Shekleton
4/19/2018 02:16:08 pm

Jim's coordinates got you there. There is a marker on the north side of the park road, 45;48;38.94N, 95;39;40.58W. I have been told that the stone's actual location was just across the road from the marker. The monuments at the top of the hill (end of the road) is not the discovery location.

Fringe Guy
4/19/2018 08:07:39 pm

Thank you Patrick and Jim. I appreciate the help. I found a Section marker in the western U.S. with Ogham on it in the past and also some that are elaborately stacked up to 10' plus in height using slabs of lava. I already published an article showing how the southeast corner of Ohman's property is at a quarter quarter section point. In modern terms this is about 260 feet south from where the KRS monument is today. So that is kind of strange. I also found that one of the surveyors on the earliest map of the area was directly associated with the people I had already speculated were behind the entire thing. Coincidentally the Church and yard where Mr. Ohman is buried is at the same latitude as this point on earth (West end of the middle of Section 15 near the road). Also kind of strange. To me things are looking grim for the Templar's in America angle. But great observations from both of you.

Patrick Shekleton
5/9/2018 10:02:47 pm

Original plat book, 1912: http://geo.lib.umn.edu/plat_books/stateofmn1916/reference/map00927.jpg

Two residences on N.O. Flaaten's land. One is off the corner of Ohman's property approximately 500 feet. The KRS discovery was to the west, and slightly north, of the residence.

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Patrick Shekleton
5/10/2018 09:11:41 pm

http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/32223/Solem/Douglas+County+1886/Minnesota/

In 1886, a John Errickson resided upon a 40 acre parcel of land to the south of N.O. Flotan (sic). The Errickson homestead is approximately 500 feet distant from the KRS discovery location. In a previous reply I stated the following:

"On the N.O. Flaaten parcel there are two large black squares. These are residences. One is located across the now-filled lake and is located where a residence sits present-day. The second residence sits off the NE corner of the Ohman parcel. It is the black square that is adjacent to the letter "O" in the "N.O." It is located on the north side of the trail/road that begins on Co. Rd. 15 SW, curves across the Flaaten parcel and past where the residence was located, and then continues up into the Ohman parcel. Someone previously had mentioned that an Ericksen surname was connected with the Flaaten parcel. This connection is almost certainly a good one because Nils Flaaten's wife was an Ericksen. This can be seen in a later Census where an Olga Ericksen, mother in law, is living in the Flaaten family. The black square correlates to being ~500 ft. distant from the discovery location. Holvik was incorrect with his machinations over the seeming disparity on the distance."

Holvik's machinations on the 500 feet were erroneous. To his credit, the 1909 affidavits, the transcribed copies that remain, have some issues. Blegen discussed to some length the issues with them (in his 1968 book) and what might have happened to the originals. Additional details re the discovery may be found in Landsverk's 1961 book especially in regard to the stump being left in Ohman's woodpile area for two years subsequent to the discovery. Despite the homogenizing of the 1909 affidavits, there were newspaper accounts in late 1898 and early 1899 that support the discovery details found in the later 1909 affidavits. The smallest diameter of the tree/stump were given by the Olsen fellow, he being a jeweler from Kensington. The other persons, who for the most part all agreed to the 8-10 inches/25 to 30 year estimate of the tree age, were persons whose work involved the clearing of land and timbering. In Solem Township, there were four areas of land set aside for Internal Improvement totaling 580 acres (160, 120, 320, & 80). Ohman in c. 1890 purchased part of the smallest 80 acre set-aside.



Jim
5/10/2018 10:40:06 pm

So what ?
Flatens house is still in the same place it was , over 1200 feet east of the KRS !
The Errickson house, even if Flaten owned it in1898, which you haven't shown he did, is not by any means 500 feet east of the KRS. Holvic"s statement remains true no matter which house you measure from !!!
And once again, the Errickson house DOES NOT sit off the NE corner of the Ohman parcel. It sits off the SOUTHEAST corner, will you please learn how to read a map.
"Holvik's machinations on the 500 feet were erroneous." NO THEY WERE NOT !!!
The affidavits were and are crap, most likely authored by Holand.

All this has already been explained to you !
It doesn't matter how many maps you dig up, they always show you to be wrong and they always will.
This is not difficult to understand Patrick.
First you said a grouping of buildings, when you mistook artifacts from photo-copying for buildings, then when you realized your mistake, you wouldn't admit it and did the ol' switcheroo and claimed it was the Errickson house all along.
Problem is Patrick, the Errickson house does not fit your narrative, and by clinging to this bogus argument you show either your dishonesty or that you are not willing to admit when you are wrong. And we both know that you are wrong.

Holvik's machinations ? More like Patricks machinations.

Joe Scales
5/11/2018 03:36:39 pm

I'd say Patrick can't see the forest for the trees... but he can't even see the trees.

Jim
4/19/2018 09:32:44 am

You just won't quit will you !!!!!!

"Flaten Affidavit "500 feet west of my house and in full view of same"
"E Ohman: "500 feet west of Nils Flaten's house and in full view of same"

So, now west all of a sudden means North ????!!!!

"The second residence sits off the NE corner of the Ohman parcel."

NO !!! You don't know north from south on a map ? That explains a lot.
The second building is south east from Ohmans south east corner post ! Or south south east from the KRS site !!

"It is located on the north side of the trail/road that begins on Co. Rd. 15 SW, curves across the Flaaten parcel and past where the residence was located,"

No, no, no !!! The road that starts between the southeast and southwest quarters of section 15 goes north than northeast and does not go anywhere near Flaatons land !
It is plain as day on the map !

What is wrong with you?

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Jim
4/19/2018 09:44:44 am

First you mistake three little dots as a "cluster" of of buildings and now you change your story to a single building that is absolutely not east of the KRS, where you say it is. What's next ?

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Jim
4/19/2018 11:44:03 am

Patrick, here is your original statement;

"What Holvik either didn't realize, or didn't point out, is that there were a collection of structures located approximately 500 feet from the discovery site, but which today are submerged under water since the lake's outlet was raised a couple of decades ago. You can see the structure outlines and wagon trails inthe 1950 USGS Earth Explorer aerial photos. There is a survey map from the late 19th/early 20th century that locates a structure in that same location."

" were a collection of structures",,, no collection of structures.

" but which today are submerged under water",,,now you have changed your story and are going with one single structure in a location that would not be under water.

"You can see the structure outlines and wagon trails inthe 1950 USGS Earth Explorer aerial photos.",,,, there are no 1950 aerial photos. You cannot by any stretch of the imagination see any structure outlines and wagon trails in the 1953 aerial photo you referred to.

" There is a survey map from the late 19th/early 20th century that locates a structure in that same location.",,,,,,No, there is no building located 500 feet east of the KRS site on the 1912 Township map.

Joe Scales
4/20/2018 04:29:47 pm

Jim, what do you expect trying to reason with the likes of Patrick. Didn't he feed Wolter a reverse negative image taken above the Newport Tower and try to maintain that it showed the remnants of the construction of a Templar chancel? Then he was shown that a non-reverse negative image... i.e. a real one... revealed a tree in the spot of his imagined chancel. How many dozens of posts did he dance around that one, never admitting the scope of his bungling. And you expect him to what... come around and realize he's an imbecile? Admit he's wasted years following fools? Good luck with that man.

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Jim
4/20/2018 05:33:48 pm

It's the scientific method. Don't use the evidence to form your conclusions, make, or invent evidence that shows the conclusions you have already made.
At least Patric has the stones to face his critics, unlike Wolter, who hides in his internet basement, censuring his debates with with his critics, all the while saying I am willing to discuss anything, but only on my blog.

Americanegro
4/20/2018 05:43:12 pm

And here's another thing. If the building was "structurally unfit" to be a windmill, then why in the earliest known written reference, which Patrick acknowledged as such after much tooth pulling, did Benedict Arnold refer to it as "my windmill"? Was he in the habit of going around imagining that things which weren't windmills were windmills? Is Wolter calling Don Quixote on Arnold?

And again, if there were a bitchin' structure that looks like a windmill there WHEN THE FIRST SETTLERS ARRIVED it would be known as "That Bitchin' Mystery Windmill-like Building".

Patrick Shekleton
4/20/2018 06:12:09 pm

Some comments are actually funny, for example, the "cancel the chancel" line resonates. That was a good laugh and the wit can be appreciated. "Free Joe's tree" just doesn't resonate. The outlines of the two trees whose branches extended over into the ground feature area were identified in the original slide deck (in the negative (inverted color) image as it presented better), so your assessment which you write about here doesn't hold water, Joe. Whether the outline which presented in a range of aerial photos is actually the outline of a structure on the east side of the NT, or not, it will require ground truth to validate. The Johnny Appleseed on Wolter's blog was contending, among other things, that the outline WAS the tree. Wrong answer. Are you fond of apples, Joe?

Jim
4/20/2018 06:25:49 pm

Patrick is probably eating a lot of porridge these days, I had to pull a few teeth as well, to get the maps that "proved" Holvic wrong.
Even then he wouldn't provide a link and I spent over an hour navigating around the USGS Earth Explorer site looking for a 1950 map that didn't exist.
The Chesterton Mill in England seems to have no structural problems after three centurys of milling.

Patrick Shekleton
4/20/2018 06:28:12 pm

A.N.,
The NT functioned as a wind-powered grist mill. There are too many references in the historical record to argue otherwise. The "structurally unfit" has been mentioned by Wolter (anecdotal) and a late 19th century writer/investigator (who, by recall, had an engineering/construction background). The 19th century writer stated that the lateral stresses induced by a large sail mounted off the side of the structure would have cracked/destroyed the pillars within a few months. Means delved into the sail issue. He postulated that they did not use a vertical sail mounted on the side of the structure, but perhaps used another configuration that was (somehow) contained within the inner diameter of the structure. More of a horizontal paddlewheel configuration. Seems reasonable. Arnold owned the land on which the NT was located, so it is also reasonable that the words 'my stone-built wind milne' are in his will. Holand, and others, argue that the phrase is not indicative of Arnold constructing the NT, but rather one of ownership.

Jim
4/20/2018 06:41:01 pm

Patrick;
You can call me Jim or you can call me Johnny Appleseed . This comment is a flat out lie.

"The Johnny Appleseed on Wolter's blog was contending, among other things, that the outline WAS the tree."

Without looking back, I asked you how in the hell you thought you could see these outlines through a canopy of tree foliage in a 1939 aerial photo.
I also showed you three photos, one of which was in a 1939 travel brochure, that clearly showed the trees. Yet you still maintain there were no trees.

Patrick Shekleton
4/20/2018 06:52:09 pm

Jim,
Trees or no trees, Jim, the outline was there in 1939 and it persisted up until the Google Earth series of aerial photos. Keep it short, explain for everyone the significance you are attaching to your hypothetical trees.

BigNick
4/20/2018 07:06:44 pm

Patrick-
Do you have any record of explorers discovering the tower? I think this would be big news. Also, if there were a building attached to the tower, why does it have to be a church?

Jim
4/20/2018 07:25:47 pm

Patrick:
" Keep it short" I will keep it as I please, thank you.

"explain for everyone the significance you are attaching to your hypothetical trees."

You really need this explained to you ? Really ?
You cannot possibly see the outline of a buried 12th century foundation that has had numerous layers of fill put upon it, not to mention the leveling, landscaping, path building, grass seeding, line burying, etc. done there through a heavy canopy of tree foliage in a grainy heavily enlarged 1939 aerial photo that used a photographic system that was known to produce artificial artifacts !!!!!
This wasn't lidar for Gods sake. Didn't they do a GPR survey in that area and came up with nothing like this ?
Perhaps you should just stop making up bogus evidence, or keep it to Wolters blog where it is normal and welcome.

Patrick Shekleton
4/20/2018 07:35:42 pm

BigNick,
There is nothing new with respect to explorers discovering the NT. The historical record has been combed over pretty well. Lots of speculation in 19th and 20th century written works but when placed under scrutiny, it doesn't hold up. The 1634 William Wood Map clearly identifies what became Newport as Old Plymouth, but from that point on any further assertions are conjecture. IF the outline is a structure remnant (foundation), it doesn't necessarily have to be a chancel. There is an equal likelihood - actually a greater likelihood absent any other connective tissue - that it was a horse stable, or an outbuilding, or another structure. And it could range anywhere from the Revolutionary War period back to the 1639 settlement of Newport. It is all unknown. Yeah, I wrote about the potential for it to be a chancel. There is no denying that it was based entirely on a visual presentation on a series of aerial photos, then further predicated that IF it was a structure built on the model of the Templar churches in England, then it might potentially be the chancel. Ground truth is the only way to "prove" or establish any evidence that is factual, and I am not an archeologist so, for me, that research thread is done.

Patrick Shekleton
4/20/2018 08:15:48 pm

Here's how not to expend an hour looking for a photo on USGS Earth Explorer:
1) Do not click on "aerial photo mosaic" in the selection tableau for AERIAL IMAGERY. In the past if I clicked on this the other available imagery didn't come up.
2) I also don't click on "ASAS."
3) Click on all the other selections.
To be able to download the hi-resolution imagery, register as a user on the site. Very simple to do and doesn't cost anything.
The downloads come in a zip format so you need an application to open such files.
Use the footprint icon to see if any particular image covers the specific area you want. Some of the Minnesota images are not correctly geo referenced for lat/long...and since the landscape is much the same...you might spend a significant amount of time cross-referencing the road networks between your downloaded image and Google Earth.

Jim
4/20/2018 09:12:15 pm

Thanks Tips, but I already got this. Maybe next time save some teeth and just give a link, like I already did for all YOUR evidence.

Anyway do ya think some trees might interfere with the view, or do ya need some more explaining ?

Speaking of explaining, you just put forth this as reasonable:

" He postulated that they did not use a vertical sail mounted on the side of the structure, but perhaps used another configuration that was (somehow) contained within the inner diameter of the structure. More of a horizontal paddlewheel configuration."

You will buy anything, won't you ?

Americanegro
4/20/2018 09:19:26 pm

Patrick:

You keep mentioning the William Wood map as if it's probative of something, yet the Newport Tower does not appear on it. Incompetent, immaterial and irrelevant.

"The NT functioned as a wind-powered grist mill. There are too many references in the historical record to argue otherwise. The "structurally unfit" has been mentioned by Wolter (anecdotal) and a late 19th century writer/investigator (who, by recall, had an engineering/construction background)."

In his recent interview Wolter CLAIMS that in addition to having an honorary Master's Degree, he asked a group of 21st century "structural engineers" if the Tower could have been a windmill and they laffed and laffed.

All that to say, you're explicitly contradicting Wolter's explicit statement on this point. Which is okay from my point of view because

Scott Wolter is an idiot.

I find it fascinating that Arnold could not travel 100 miles in England therefore never saw a windmill, but somehow made it to Rhode Island.

Joe Scales
4/20/2018 10:26:28 pm

I'd say Patrick was intellectually dishonest, but as he has no intellect, it's only a half truth.

Jim
4/20/2018 10:33:08 pm

"I find it fascinating that Arnold could not travel 100 miles in England therefore never saw a windmill, but somehow made it to Rhode Island. "

The name eludes me, but there was another fellow there, a miller I believe, who had a wooden windmill and may have built other windmills, who grew up quite close to Chesterton and came to America in his late 20s.
But nah, Arnold wouldn't have hired a knowledgeable man probably quite familiar With the Chesterton mill to build his own mill. Arnold probably hired Bob the handyman.

Patrick Shekleton
4/20/2018 11:07:06 pm

The Chesterton Windmill connection is bunk. The speculation that Arnold saw, or did not see, that structure is absolute speculation based on a mistaken understanding that Arnold grew up a few miles distant, which he didn't. The C.W. is not probative in any regard for the NT. The mistaken location of where Arnold lived was written about in the last quarter of the 19th century.

Jim
4/20/2018 11:18:00 pm

" The C.W. is not probative in any regard for the NT"

But the three story Round Church in Cambridge that was not built by the Templars is proof that the Templars built the Newport Tower ?

Americanegro
4/20/2018 11:21:01 pm

You will note that I specified a distance of 100 miles so I am under no misapprehension as to where Arnold lived. You attribute to me an argument I did not make. Indeed I said that he did NOT travel that distance.

Jim
4/20/2018 11:49:45 pm

Patrick:

" And it could range anywhere from the Revolutionary War period back to the 1639 settlement of Newport. It is all unknown."

"IF it was a structure built on the model of the Templar churches in England, then it might potentially be the chancel."

Perhaps, Patrick it is time for you to tell us what you arguing for.
Seems like you are arguing for any position other than a seventeenth century windmill. You are saying we are wrong, you are right but you don't seem to have a position you can be right about.
Are we wrong because we agree with academia ?
Is it the Smithsonian that makes us wrong ?
Who do you believe built the Newport Tower ?
If you think your "chancel" could date from " the Revolutionary War period back to the 1639 settlement of Newport" who built it ? Was it invisible ?
You are saying that it was not Templars then ?

What is your position ?

Patrick Shekleton
4/21/2018 06:40:59 am

A.N.,
Concur. No attribution re Arnold/CW on your part. I should have better framed my general response.

Patrick Shekleton
4/21/2018 07:43:58 am

Jim,
"Are we wrong because we agree with academia?" Academia is not a monolithic block in this regard. Most posit the Colonial-origin for the NT, accepting original construct as a) grist mill or b) gentleman's folly. Professor Penhallow and those who worked with him in the 1990s were academics and they posited a Pre-Colonial origin.

"Is it the Smithsonian that makes us wrong?" Why would that be? There have been literary works written by persons who were employed by the Smithsonian who have posited that the various hypotheses of a Pre-Colonial origin for the NT are not substantiated. Your position is in consonance with what they wrote.

"If you think your "chancel" could date from " the Revolutionary War period back to the 1639 settlement of Newport" who built it? Was it invisible?" There are no maps that illustrate or written documents that identify, prior to the area becoming a park, any other structures in proximity to the NT. A screening of available records after it became a park doesn't show any structures in close proximity to the tower. In this regard, your "invisible" is correct. History doesn't record everything, therefore potential structures, if validated, need to be reconciled for time period and usage. Ground truth required.

Who built the NT? My position is very transparent, and always has been, I do not subscribe to the Benedict Arnold consensus. Nor do I subscribe to the speculative conjecture of the other various Colonial persons who were repeated/tendered by Johannes Hertz et al. I traced these assertions down, they just don't hold up.

I don't know who constructed the NT. Nor does anyone else, for that matter. There is no record of its construction.

Vikings, Norse, Templars, John Dee, and Benedict Arnold. Not Vikings, too early. 14th century-Norse, possibly involved but no evidence. Templars...that is a minefield. Dee...a tough sell. Arnold...no doubt that he used the structure as a mill, but the contention is that he re-purposed it.

I believe that Penhallow was one the right track with assessing the original design/purpose of the NT. Even so, Penhallow steered clear of an opinion of who constructed the tower, because alignment data doesn't tell us that information.

There is no explicit historical evidence that tells us WHO constructed the NT and WHEN. At present, it is all inferred.


Jim
4/21/2018 11:30:47 am

Right so, anyone who was actually in North America is out by default.
Lets ignore all the historical evidence.
Lets ignore all the archeological evidence.

"Professor Penhallow and those who worked with him in the 1990s were academics and they posited a Pre-Colonial origin."

Academics yes, astronomers, speaking to something completely out of their area of expertise. Who would you believe in matters of archaeology, a geologist or an archeologist ?

Lets go with Penhallow's Astronomical Alignments that could only work if there was no first story floor. Do you think there was no floor Patrick ? Perhaps giants stoking that fireplace ?

" Professor Penhallow and those who worked with him in the 1990s were academics and they posited a Pre-Colonial origin."

Penhallow was a retired University of Rhode Island astronomy professor. And even if he had something, I guess it is ruled out that a Colonial builder could have known about something that had been discovered thousands of years ago.
I wish we could get the opinions of some botanists!

"Is it the Smithsonian that makes us wrong?"
Why would that be,,,,,,,,, Your position is in consonance with what they wrote. "

Why would that be ?,,,, more explaining,,,Because your position is not in consonance with what they wrote, and you disagree with my position, therefore, their position.

"Templars...that is a minefield"

Yes it is Patrick, one that you happily jumped into the center of. So since you have to extradite yourself anyway, please do inform us as to your position on the Templars building the NT.

"Dee...a tough sell."

Again, give us your position, no copping out. "a tough sell" is not a position as to whether he was involved or not.


Joe Scales
4/21/2018 11:41:09 am

And here it was I thought Patrick's position could only be calculated by celestial observation as plotted by the megalithic yard...

Gunn
4/19/2018 10:55:36 am

From just above: "Scott Wolter should get the same treatment his father did."

A few weeks ago, Jason lamented about not being taken seriously as a writer by those holding the publishing purse-strings, I guess as though those persons, those publishing gate-keepers, were not able to swiftly check out his website blog in order to make cursory, up-front judgments about its host...this might be a common event, I would think.

In other words, some comments expressed here clearly cross the line of normal decency, just for anonymous sport, and they are reflected back to the blog host, unfortunately. The unintended consequences can make Jason look bad when he ends up allowing some rather outrageous comments to stand...and this would be enough cause for some publishing contacts to not consider Jason's writing efforts for publishing. In other words, who would want to support in any way a writer who lets flagrant insults and inappropriate language stand so glaringly on his public blog?

This may be a good time to mention how occasional new commenters are often treated here, so unkindly and with such overwhelming rudeness. Clearly, this is bullying behavior. But, my point is that one could easily see this blog as a blight against Jason, when it doesn't have to be this way with just a bit of occasional clean-up effort. In my view, the word “nigger” as used here recently is woefully inappropriate, too, and should be swept away, along with the cruel mention of the unfortunate accident that claimed the life of Wolter’s father.

(Hopefully, this might be taken constructively…with an eye to a better future for all concerned.)


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Americanegro
4/19/2018 12:54:49 pm

SOME newcomers are treated as they deserve. Most are treated nicely. I don't think your throwing around racial slurs helps matters.

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A Nuddhist
4/19/2018 06:26:48 pm

The obligation of a first degree Freemason (Entered Apprentice degree):
“Binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by its roots, and buried in the rough sands of the sea at low-water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty four hours, should I ever knowingly or willingly violate this my solemn oath and obligation as an Entered Apprentice Mason. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same.”

The obligation of a second degree Freemason (Fellowcraft degree):
“Binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my left breast torn open, my heart plucked out, and given as a prey to the wild beasts of the field and the fowls of the air as a prey.”

The obligation of a third degree Freemason (Master Mason degree):
“Binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my body severed in two, my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes, the ashes scattered to the four winds of heaven, so that no more trace or remembrance may be had of so vile and perjured a wretch as I, should I ever knowingly or willingly violate this my solemn obligation as a Master Mason. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same.”

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Patrick Shekleton
4/21/2018 12:19:09 pm

Jim,
"Lets go with Penhallow's Astronomical Alignments that could only work if there was no first story floor." Penhallow doesn't identify any alignments which the first floor blocks(no alignments pass through that level).

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Jim
4/21/2018 02:06:42 pm

Goodness, gracious, you have got me there Patrick !
Although, is this germane to anything ? Kind of a big "so what".
How does this speak to age of the construction of the tower ?

W. Penhallow - NEARA member, Retired astronomer, did not take up knitting or building whirlygigs.

" Thus, it is far more likely that the Europeans arriving after 1500 would have built a typical sixteenth century church or chapel as a central focus for their activity. Without further investigation we cannot rule out the possibility that this Tower (structure) was part of a pre-Columbian settlement established by a determined group of northern European Christians."

Can you spell "confirmation bias"

And on to the other points Patrick, what say you ?
I am especially interested to know your thoughts on Templars building the NT.

In a nutshell, your view is that the Historians,and the Archeologists with their compelling evidence are wrong.
But you dunno.
Is that about it ?

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Jim
4/21/2018 07:29:50 pm

Patrick, back to your "revised" original argument about Flaten's house. For the sake of argument, say you are right, and Flatens house was southeast of Ohman's land.
If Holvic went 500 feet from this "new" location and took a photo, what would the result be ? Exactly the same as from the old location !! The statements were full of crap. He would be nowhere near the discovery site.
So, now that you must admit that Holvic was 100% correct, I would beseech thee to come in from the dark side and join us.Leave the service of the one who will not fight his own battles but throws you to the wolves in his stead. For pity's sake think of the misinformed children.

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Jim
4/21/2018 07:32:10 pm

Should read ,,,,If Holvic went 500 feet WEST from this "new" location

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Patrick Shekleton
4/22/2018 12:53:02 pm

Jim,
I will pass on the invite. I don't do conspiracy theories - on either side. Holvik, Walhgren, and others have laid out enough conspiracy theories to be able to walk to the moon. On the flip side, Pre-Columbian advocates have done the same. I give a pass to both sides for the 19th century accounts related to the NT. As I have written before, and others as well, every piece of information submitted to support a hypothesis has to be testable. Esoteric symbolism isn't testable, so I don't pay any attention to it. The cottage industry of "accusing" a person/or persons of hoaxing the KRS/SPR/NT with nothing more than speculative circumstantial evidence was, and still is, reprehensible. Ohman and Elliot were pillaged unfairly. On the flip side, this point of view isn't an automatic springboard for any of these rune stones defaulting to a Pre-Columbian origin. The prominent runologists (in the past and present) who presented arguments against the KRS authenticity were extremely biased, so much so, that they put forth half-baked arguments that were refuted when tested. Henrik William's work on the NRS, in my opinion, reflects negatively on his professional qualifications. I don't know who inscribed the various rune stones or who constructed the NT, but I am not satisfied, or in agreement, with what has been presented. I reserve the right to be skeptical, don't you?

Reply
Jim
4/22/2018 02:49:13 pm

Blah, blah blah,

" I reserve the right to be skeptical, don't you? "

Yes I do, but I draw the line at fabricating bs evidence to discredit someone who has an opposing and legitimate viewpoint, the goal of which is to disprove a completely factual statement.

Jim
4/22/2018 03:21:21 pm

And furthermore, what the hell makes you think you or Wolter for that matter, are in the least bit qualified to judge Henrik William's work ? And the rest of the runic scholars who overwhelmingly reject Wolters nonsense.
Universally recognized experts being judged by an idiotic cement specialist and you ?
Oh ya, they aren't agreeing with the world renowned Norse Knowitall Patrick.

Americanegro
4/22/2018 03:26:55 pm

It is NEVER reprehensible to accuse the "finder" of an object to be the perpetrator or victim of a hoax. You may still be able to recover repressed memories of that runic carving that fooled Wolter until the hoaxers got wind of it and came forward. Also the discussion here some months back about using a toothpick and credit card to measure the KRS. The same poster tried to pawn off photos taken from different angles as "3-D Scans". There's plenty of reprehensible to go around, but it's never even inappropriate to suspect a hoax and the finder is always the likely suspect.

I personally suspect that Wolter's recently revealed 3 character "runic" carving, bigger than any he's seen before is either a hoax or practice carving by an aspiring hoaxer.

Americanegro
4/22/2018 04:06:30 pm

"Henrik William's work on the NRS, in my opinion, reflects negatively on his professional qualifications."

Because he treated it as real, or

Because he didn't treat it as real, or

Because he changed his mind, or

For some other reason?


A cynic might add: because he worked with Wolter to begin with?

Jim
4/22/2018 04:11:40 pm

"I personally suspect that Wolter's recently revealed 3 character "runic" carving, bigger than any he's seen before is either a hoax or practice carving by an aspiring hoaxer."

Did you take a good look at that photo ? The rock appears to be on someones lawn, next to their driveway, (or street ) not exactly hidden away. Any kid, passerby or anyone else could have made that.
Wolter won't say where it is (surprise, surprise), but my money is in a suburban setting.

Americanegro
4/22/2018 09:08:24 pm

Here's my memory from an earlier reading of the article:

It's near a park, on the water, but on a road marked Private; there may be a chain. My memory says Wolter also took a core sample from the back of the rock but I can't find a cached edition that agrees with my memory. Maybe read about it somewhere else.

He trots out this tired old thing:
"I know enough about runes to be dangerous, but I want to make it clear I am not a qualified expert."

What a manly fruitloop.

Joe Scales
4/22/2018 09:33:32 pm

Henrik Williams once gave Wolter the benefit of the doubt, and in return gets defamed on a near regular basis. You want to know why Wolter will never go back to Sweden? Because defamation there is a criminal offense.

Jim
4/22/2018 11:30:30 pm

AN,, It's hard to keep track of all the rune stones, but I think the one you speak of was the one that Cortez Initialized.
You know, the trespassing and taking unauthorized samples one.
One could always ask Patrick about it, he was trespassing there with Wolter as well.
Wolter actually made 2 posts about it.

http://scottwolteranswers.blogspot.ca/2017/10/did-ponce-de-leon-carve-overton-stone.html

http://scottwolteranswers.blogspot.ca/2017/09/a-preliminary-investigation-into.html

Joe : And now Holvic gets defamed with fabricated evidence for the sin of reading the cooked affidavits. And apparently calling shenanigans on bogus documents is considered a conspiracy theory, in fact, disagreeing With Walter at all seems to be part of a conspiracy theory. So sayeth Patrick, the "impartial one".

Joe Scales
4/23/2018 11:06:30 am

Just so folks can read a few of Professor Henrik Williams' papers in regard to Wolter's bungling over the years and measure for themselves the Professor's methodology as compared to imbeciles like Patrick who instead choose to embrace Wolterisms and fantasy, here are a few links:

Why the dotted R issue doesn't help Wolter:
http://www.nordiska.uu.se/digitalAssets/79/a_79636-f_dotted-runes.pdf

On the Narragansett Stone, of which Patrick is critical:
http://files.webb.uu.se/uploader/267/Narragansett%20Stone%20Report%203.1%20Williams%202014.pdf

Solving a true mystery featured on Wolter's TV show, putting him to shame:
http://files.webb.uu.se/uploader/267/Mustang%20Mountain%20Stone%20-%20release.pdf

On Wolter's Hooked X:
https://websites.godaddy.com/blob/65151a46-8ee3-453c-83d3-7b1077c69c9e/downloads/1bjjra2et_37224.pdf?a8f8753c

Americanegro
4/23/2018 11:15:29 am

"AN,, It's hard to keep track of all the rune stones, but I think the one you speak of was the one that Cortez Initialized.
You know, the trespassing and taking unauthorized samples one.
One could always ask Patrick about it, he was trespassing there with Wolter as well.
Wolter actually made 2 posts about it.

http://scottwolteranswers.blogspot.ca/2017/10/did-ponce-de-leon-carve-overton-stone.html

http://scottwolteranswers.blogspot.ca/2017/09/a-preliminary-investigation-into.html"

Jim, thanks for the correction.

Patrick Shekleton
4/22/2018 11:21:51 pm

I don't know anything more about the recent three-rune carving than you all.

It goes without saying that if one "finds" an OOP artifact, part of the truth-seeking process is going to be if the artifact is genuine or hoaxed. That comes with the territory. And to be clear, the finder is going to be accused of hoaxing it...it isn't going to be a friendly process. Elliot found the SPR, so he was accused of hoaxing them. High school education, a carpenter by trade, hunting for arrowheads, and pulls three stones out of a hole on the bank of a pond and an amulet from a nearby shellheap. No knowledge of runes, so the conspiracy theory was that he copied the runes from the KRS (despite the fact that there were significant differences in the runes). Over time the SPR generally became ignored as they were classified as a hoax. Later discoveries on the SPR included the Golden Year dating code and a numerical symbol found on a single astrolabe dating from the mid-13th century. Quite an accomplishment for an arrowhead hunter. In the 2000 Smithsonian Institute book Elliot is not accused of being the "hoaxer", but an unnamed person, referenced by a personal communication citation (not even excerpted), is posited as the supposed hoaxer. In 2012 another book is written (again by an academic) and, in it, the author flat out states that it was Elliot who used an etcher to inscribe the SPR. The endnote citation doesn't speak to any supporting evidence, not even referencing the 2000 Smithsonian Institute publication.

This isn't academic scholarship.

Williams took the Elder Futhark character set found on the NRS and flipped it to a Younger Futhark character set from which an incomprehensible word of SHROMLIAA resulted. Since there was no reasonable translation of the Younger Futhark character set, Williams then deemed the NRS inscription to be a 20th century inscription. There are too many twists and turns in this saga to recount here; I posted it last summer.

Ohman had only lived on the land for eight years at the time the KRS was discovered in 1898. The majority of accounts place the tree's diameter at 8-10 inches, equating to 25-30 years of age. Those facts don't reconcile well with Ohman having a hand in the KRS inscription. You already know this... which is why hoax advocates adhere to the outlying 10 year estimate for the tree's age. If the tree pre-dates Ohman's arrival on the scene then the hoaxer isn't Ohman. It doesn't mean that the KRS wasn't potentially hoaxed, it means that it wasn't Ohman that hoaxed it.



Reply
Jim
4/23/2018 12:05:45 am

Unless Ohman shoved the stone in the roots himself.
Didn't he have a clipping in his possession describing this very thing ?

Reply
Patrick Shekleton
4/23/2018 12:44:19 am

Jim,
When did Ohman "shove" the stone into the roots?

Jim
4/23/2018 12:52:34 am

I didn't say he did, but if it was me I would have done it before my witnesses arrived home from school.

Joe Scales
4/23/2018 10:37:00 am

"Didn't he have a clipping in his possession describing this very thing ? "

Yes he did. An article cut out from a European account of finding a carved stone within the roots of a tree well prior to the discovery of the KRS. Then he finds one too.

The totality of the evidence weights heavily in favor of a hoax:
Ohman's knowledge of and ability to carve runes:
That smoking gun clipping in Ohman's possession.
The smoking gun Larsson Papers showing a modern source for problematic runes.
The smoking gun grammatical misplacement of upper/lower cases and numerals.
The smoking gun runes in calcite being legible after 500 years, whether buried or not.
The smoking gun word carved on the stone that didn't exist in the 14th century.
Not to mention the complete lack of archeological context for the find.

To claim authenticity, Patrick relies upon missing affidavits made ten years after the fact in regard to the red herring that is the age of the supposed tree by people that didn't even see the tree topple. Like what... affidavits are foolproof? If you believe that, then you must believe that no one has ever lied in court. Ever. Or that Ohman was such a swell guy and couldn't have committed a hoax; and yeah, that emotional appeal you'll hear a lot. Give me a break. Given the time frame of Swedish nationalism and who populated the area in question, isn't it all a bit too convenient? And then to get by the problems with the runes and how they were carved, you basically have to maintain that the inconsistencies and errors aren't inconsistencies and errors. And no one with any true expertise with such runes will maintain authenticity. Only "runic cowboys", such as Wolter as he peddles his fiction to imbeciles such as Patrick. That is why this is a long settled matter. The KRS isn't an authentic 14th century carving made in America.

And no Patrick. This is no invitation to discuss the obvious that you ignore in favor of your astronomical alignments and megalithic yards. You are a complete imbecile. I bet even Wolter chuckles to himself when you're together as you make such an obedient and pandering lapdog.

Jim
4/23/2018 12:26:37 am

From the separately taken affidavits:

Olaf Ohman: Observed the roots, The small top root was 3 inches wide and flattened.

Nils Flaten : Observed the roots, which were 3 inches wide and flattened.

Edward Ohman: Observed the roots, which were 3 inches wide and flattened.

Ronald Bentson: Observed the roots, which were 3 inches wide and flattened.

Sam Olson: Observed the roots, which were 3 inches wide and flattened.

Will someone please give me a freaking break, 4 people say exactly the same thing in 4 separate statements! Yet AGAIN

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Patrick Shekleton
4/23/2018 12:37:11 am

Yep, I was there with Scott in August 2017 when the Overton Stone visit took place. Then I got to read, and laugh, about all the bullshit speculation on this blog of what took place. The spalled-off rock fragments got twisted into some heinous crime of damaging a national treasure (that you all think is a hoax anyways) and a hiking trail littered with dog shit and seagull droppings along a desolate beach with a parking area became trespassing.

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Jim
4/23/2018 01:00:36 am

Good to know that if there are seagull droppings you are allowed to ignore No Trespassing signs.

"The spalled-off rock fragments got twisted into some heinous crime of damaging a national treasure (that you all think is a hoax anyways)"

But which you and Wolter seem to think is real, so it is OK to wack off chunks of it while trespassing on private posted land.

Patrick Shekleton
4/23/2018 01:35:34 am

Jim,
Take a break from the blog and go decompress. Preferably not at Waffle House.

Americanegro
4/23/2018 11:41:35 am

"It’s on private land and is posted with signs, but we were told as long as you stayed on the trail it was OK to visit the site."

Americanegro
4/23/2018 02:38:54 pm

Mass shootings are super funny, don't you think? It's even funnier this way:

"Jim,
Take a break from the blog and go decompress. Preferably not at a Baptist church in South Carolina."

Jim
4/23/2018 02:47:29 pm

Manly men do not keep to the trails !
On America unearthed, The plot to steal America, Wolter had himself filmed cavorting and jumping around on the top of the hugely fragile hoodoos. This is a huge no no !
From Park literature:

Sandstone and vegetation is fragile and easily damaged; please stay on trails
Please do not or touch the cliffs or rock art. It is illegal to damage these, and any natural object protected in a provincial park
Even touching the rock art or climbing the hoodoos can have an impact. The environment of Writing-On-Stone / Áísínai'pi is extremely fragile.
Damaging any cultural resource, including rock art, may result in a $50,000 fine and a one-year jail sentence.

You really have to see these to get how fragile they are. I did a program in the very near vicinity where I detonated many dynamite charges. At the end of every day I would visit the park praying that It hadn't become a pile of rubble. I even brought this up with the higher ups, I was so worried about damaging the park.

But hey, if Wolter thinks showing off his machismo is more important than the protection of Canada's premier petroglyph location, who am I to argue ?

Americanegro
4/23/2018 03:09:18 pm

"It’s on private land and is posted with signs, but we were told as long as you stayed on the trail it was OK to visit the site."

My guess for those you in Rio Linda: if you're close enough to touch it, you didn't stay on the trail.

A big ole buzzer for Manly Fruitloop and Sir Patrick the Navigator.

Americanegro
4/23/2018 11:14:18 am

Again, estimating a tree's diameter is not how you determine a tree's age. Again, no one counted the rings. Again, this is a problem.

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Americanegro
4/23/2018 01:22:39 pm

From Williams' paper https://websites.godaddy.com/blob/65151a46-8ee3-453c-83d3-7b1077c69c9e/downloads/1bjjra2et_37224.pdf?a8f8753c which is worth reading, cited above:

"a geologist with no expertise in runology and no knowledge at all about Scandinavian languages, neither old nor modern"

So, a manly fruitloop.

Joe Scales
4/23/2018 01:39:28 pm

Patrick will only read the note at the end and declare that it was no hoax; building upon Wolter's false dilemma.

Jim
4/23/2018 11:21:42 am

Why Patrick ? You and Wolter trespassed on posted land and then vandalized the rock upon which the images are carved.
You have both admitted this ! Case Closed !
Are you two so special that this is OK ?
Oh, but other people did it as well,so that exonerates us !
If an unfortunate woman is gang raped, are the last ones doing this nasty deed innocent because everyone else was doing it ?
NO means NO

You want me to stop posting ? How about you stop with the utter nonsense you have been trying to shove down our throats.
An invented imaginary second house that Holvic didn't see.
The Chancel in a tree.
The conspiracys, haha Wolter is the King of the Conspiracy Theorys.
Among many others.

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Jim
4/23/2018 01:04:46 pm

I would appeal to Gunn, as an impartial party.
Bob, after having recently purchased the land containing the "Altar Rock" and posting it By appointment only, is it OK for someone to go there without your permission and hammer chunks of the rock off to take home and look at ?

Reply
Ask a Mental
4/23/2018 06:39:45 pm

The need or unfulfilled desire, trumps your pitiful trespassing signs.

"Hi Scott, it looks to me like the first rune may be a "Naudhiz," with a shortened side of the X, rather than a "Gebo," or regular X. If so, as individual runes, the meaning might be construed as meaning this interpretation. (I took the individual rune meanings and extrapolated them out into a brief storyline to possibly fit the occasion):

"We had this need, this unfulfilled desire with the land here (from the Naudhiz rune). We worked and experienced movement and growth (from the Raidho rune), but in the end, there was too much danger and suffering (from the Thurisoz rune)."

Mind you, that's from THREE runes.

Jim
4/24/2018 04:02:49 pm

And, the crockpot has boiled over yet again !
New Wolter Interview with the Malliard Report

https://www.malliard.com/scott-wolter-2/

I could only get to about the 1/2 hour mark before my head exploded and I had to pull the pin. It is so chock full of nonsense, much to much so to take note of.
Small sampling:

-Patrick has done time lapse photos and has discovered multiple new window alignments in the Newport Tower.

-Mentions aerial photos, and what PATRICK called a chancel.

-Claims Tower took at least a year to build, perhaps many, due to the builders having to wait for each individual alignment to happen and the corresponding construction of windows etc. were built at the exact time of the alignments.
hahahahahahahaha

-Claims the Templar built church (Tower) was had town hall type meetings for the Templar Settlement there. That's right folks, although he doesn't come right out and say it, he insinuates the Templars had a town there.

-America was based on the " tenets that we hold dearly in this country"
"Freedom of the tyranny from the Monarchs of Europe"
"Freedom of persecution from the Roman Catholic Church"
hahaha let the history rewriting begin.

-Shows off his mathematical skills by counting and adding his way all the way up to the number 13, then exposes the shocking revelation that 13 is the number of periods women have a year.

-His critics don't have any evidence to rebut him, but he has written 3 books that prove them all wrong.

- 5 pointed star is the oldest symbol in cave art, dates back 100,000 years where ancient astronomers tracked Venus.

-

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Jim
4/24/2018 05:50:21 pm

I almost forgot to mention that the Native Americans know all about this stuff but are keeping mum. Apparently they may reveal all, but only if Donald Trump apologizes to them.

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Joe Scales
4/24/2018 09:51:26 pm

When did Templars get all caught up with this astronomical alignment stuff? I thought they were just bankers...

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Jim
4/24/2018 10:52:41 pm

Apparently 100,000 years ago, you didn't think he was going to stop at King Solomon being a Grand Master, did you ?

Jim
4/25/2018 12:01:25 am

This is cool, some of it it is almost exactly quoted by wolter.

https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2014/01/04/the-pentagram-of-venus/

But I like this part the best;

"Naturally, some people get too excited about all this stuff—the combination of Venus, Fibonacci numbers, the golden ratio, and a ‘pentagram’ overloads their tiny brains."

Jim
4/25/2018 12:30:56 am

And of course Wolter is going to have to duke it out with the Freemasons who say his observations are wrong !

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/venus.html

"There is no observation point on Earth that would present a regular pentagram. Moving further north elongates the figure while on the equator the figure is an irregular pentagon."

Joe Scales
4/25/2018 09:50:32 am

So, now he's cavorting with ghost hunters. One whose demonic ex-wife made him sleep on the sofa... and that's when the holy spirit came to call.

Oh yeah, Wolter the "scientist". As if.

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Fringe Guy
4/25/2018 11:14:32 am

I have some info coming that is going to really put a damper on things.......but not until someone pays me for it.......lol. He has gone well over the edge w/ the New Age angle in the last couple of years. Kind of a sign of desperation because that is a last gasp appeal to the only people that MIGHT believe him.

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Americanegro
4/25/2018 12:06:56 pm

2:20 "the movement of light boxes as they progressed through the years"
4:00 Newport Tower would tear itself apart (unlike the windmill in England)
8:00 husks floating in the air / the tower is not round
9:45 Wolter doesn't know how to capture alignments; doesn't know what primitive people know. Of course the colonists had almanacs.
11:00 He doesn't know even where the colonists got mortar, because "they didn't have limestone in that area". He doesn't understand primitive technology. "They had to have a fresh water source" Yes, Scott they would, to drink, and therefore to live.
13:00 Our Scott says that a church or cathedral was one of the first things built in towns in Europe. Nevermind the Irish Altar Stones. Templars couldn't even set foot on the continent without alliances with Injuns. Scott Wolter is an idiot and can eat my shorts.
17:32 Trust the rocks; doesn't mention his failure with the AVM Runestone
19:00 Hooked X, etc. pointed in only one direction, the Cistercians and Knights Templar
20:00 Wouldn't England be the place to go for freedom from the persecution of the Roman Catholic church? Might want to google "priesthole" Scott. The colonists didn't come here to escape CATHOLIC persecution, and Maryland was a Catholic colony, and Massachusetts had a state religion in its constitution.
24:00 "Scott, what should I look for when I'm outside?" "It's important to go outside."
25:00 Our Scott thinks every spiral is the Fibonacci sequence, and then a lot of new-age non-sense. Idiot. Shorts.
27:30 Five pointed star, where does it come from? Wolter sees houses with "big metal five pointed star[s]" up against the house". It's a drawing you shorts-eating idiot.
30:00 Templars only pretended to be Catholic. Wolter doesn't know enough to be dangerous, he knows enough to be stupid. Punching out to watch Mike & Molly now, more later.
33:00 Anytime you see the number 13 it's the Golden Ratio (nevermind that the Templars were raided on Friday the 13th)
34:00 Are you sure that's a figleaf on the dollar bill and not an olive branch you idiot? h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13_(number) h ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_one-dollar_bill#Reverse_of_current_$1_bill
37:00 I think our Scott should apologize for hanging out with an obvious fake Indian Negro h ttp://www.scotclans.com/the-mystery-that-shows-a-mutual-respect-between-native-american-and-the-scots/ Notice the use of the surname "Gunn".
40:30 "Why is it I get persecuted?" The mind boggles. Fuck this guy.
48:00 Academics have no intellectual curiosity
49:00 Someone should research our Scott's post 911 contract with the gummint. He's fringe but he's not a scientist.
51:00 "I do exactly what any other academic does"
51:50 "I'm one of the best in the world" (except when it comes to agates I guess)

This interview left me wishing herpes, HIV, leprosy, and Ebola on our Scott. What a douche. He demands people use their real names on his website but he has no way of telling if it's your real name. I've never used my real name on his site.
56:00 His son texted him a picture with an Olympic gold medal around his neck. Apparently stolen valor runs in the family.

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Jim
4/25/2018 04:16:21 pm

There is so much stupid crammed in that hour, one has to wonder how so much was left over for his collaborator. Someone should alert Guinness Book of world records.

"I'm one of the best in the world"

Here he had referenced his tombstone studies.
Comparing completely different types of rocks in completely different environments and weather patterns (coastal to far inland), with the KRS supposedly buried and the tombstones fully exposed.
The best in the world at comparing apples to oranges.

"Scott, what should I look for when I'm outside?" "It's important to go outside."

A sign reading "Voluntary Admittance Entrance"?

The link to the fake Indian chief tells me it isn't a peace pipe he is smoking.

Start paragraph:
"The group later travel to Narraganset Bay what is now Newport deep in the heart of the Pokanoket Nation and built a tower. This is now called the Newport Tower which has been the subject of the Freemason History. In September 2014 the New Hampshire Highland Games in Lincoln NH has the biggest Games on East Coast. This is very close to the Westford Knight, a 5-6 hour journey."
End paragraph:
Or

" My surname is Scottish and even have red haired relatives on my Father’s side of the family. A few years ago I did a DNA test, this came back with a high percentage of Scottish, Irish and Scandinavian, this did knock me sideways – I’m a Chief from a long line of Chiefs, how is this possible?. My Mother’s side of the family were Boyds and we also have Fergussons . My Jamieson ancestor looks like it possibly goes back to the 1700s with a John Jamieson."

Right Chief,,so, er,, how is this possible ? You never answered your own question, did it catch you off guard ?

Al in all, par for the course with these numbs.

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Mike Morgan
4/29/2018 02:54:56 pm

Re: The "Jimmy Church" interview mentioned by Jim above, apparently, Sacagawea was brought up but only briefly discussed.

We now have a bit more, but "stay tuned", more to come!!!

Sacagawea "... is believed to be a direct descendant of a medieval Templar knight who assimilated with the Natives."

From his blog "Does a 1939 aerial photograph prove the Newport Tower is a Templar Church?" of 3/18/18:

Unknown April 28, 2018 at 5:37 PM
"Scott,
Just listened to your latest interview with Jimmy Church. Terrific. Y'all got so caught up on "Trading Places", you were about to elaborate on the rumor of the Sacagawea coin, but didn't get a chance. What is the significance?
cheers,
Steve"

Scott Wolter April 29, 2018 at 8:28 AM
"Steve,
I'll have the story in my new book I'm getting ready to release. Essentially, she is believed to be a direct descendant of a medieval Templar knight who assimilated with the Natives."

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Americanegro
4/29/2018 03:12:02 pm

It never gets spelled out, but our Scott's story is all about boning, boning, boning, and more boning. Because a descendant implies boning.

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Jim
4/30/2018 02:49:04 pm

Sacagawea, whom Wolter claims brought Clarke to meet her (Chief) brother and after the Chief and Clarke flashed Masonic signs and gave each a Masonic greeting, Clarke then wanted Chief Cameahwait (who really was Sacagawea's brother or cousin) to arrange a meeting with the Blackfoot Chief.
It will be interesting to see how Wolter spins this as the Shoshone and the Blackfoot were in the midst of a long and bloody war at the time. Later, Cameahwait is in fact killed by the Blackfoot.

"Cameahwait was killed during a battle with the Blackfeet at Bloody Creek in Montana, at an uncertain date"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameahwait

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Americanegro
4/30/2018 04:11:25 pm

That's exactly what the Catholic Church and their time-traveling Jesuits want you to believe. I note that Patrick's friend Roderick has been taking our Scott to task over his Templar nonsense. Well done, playa!

Just so we're clear, this is released into the wild, in the public domain, I don't own it -- it's like gravity:

Scott Wolter is an idiot.

Jim
4/30/2018 06:14:52 pm

Roderick:
" How do you know she was a descendant of a knight?"

Scott:
"The knights who came over to North America were no longer support staff as the structure of the order had changed. They had set out for a new life in a new land and why wouldn't they? Staying in Europe promised only further persecution from the monarchs and the Catholic Church. To say nothing about the plagues ravaging Europe at that time. Native Americans shared a similar ideology and lived in balance with their environment which was the way the Templars distant ancestors had lived. It makes perfect sense. "

Anonymous
"Scott,any chance you could answer Roderick's question ?
" How do you know she was a descendant of a knight?"

Will Scott allow the comment ? Or too much gotcha ?

Americanegro
5/1/2018 01:41:39 pm

I'm sure if Roderick knew about this blog he'd thank you, I mean he'd thank Anonymous. Jeepers, Scott Wolter is an idiot.

Americanegro
4/29/2018 03:18:52 pm

Notice he specifies "Templar knight."

Our Scott seems to think all Templars are knights. In fact you had to be a knight already to be a Templar knight. Most Templars were support staff.

There is a strong current of homoeroticism in our Scott's mythos.

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Joe Scales
4/29/2018 08:56:33 pm

Yes, perhaps his next work should be direct to video with the title "Hard Science"...

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Jim
4/30/2018 02:54:32 pm

oooh,,, hopefully, can he work some whipped cream in there somehow.

Americanegro
4/30/2018 06:10:01 pm

Jimmy Church really likes to hear himself talk. It took forever to get to our Scott and his recycling of material from years ago. Minute 42 he talks all kinds of bullshit about Freemasonry.

43:00 you can learn everything about Masonry on the internet in 2 seconds. Good to know. Templars were fighting the Boers or the Moors but apparently not the Saracens.

Did I mention he solved the Kensington Runestone once again?

48:50 the Bible is full of stories. It's amazing that the Freemasons have preserved knowledge the Jews lost.

Wolter thinks there were framing carpenters involved in building Solomon's Temple.

He says he's been given permission to tell Masonic secrets.

The simple explanation of course is that the hoaxer who carved the KRS in the 19th century was a Mason.

According to our Scott, Masonic ritual LITERALLY involves a guy with his eyes poked out.

Our Scott is making a career out of raping Joseph Campbell, telling old stories as if they are new.

1:04:00 Doubles down on the Continental Divide.

1:07:00 Now the Templars got to the Rocky Mountains in the 11th century, specifically in Montana. Our Scott visited the secret vault in 2011. What a lying fag, sorry. Montana Big Fork River.

And it will be proven because some Injuns have miscegenated with Europeans. Because DNA.

He pronounces "rune" as "ruin".

What an idiot. Freemasons on the moon!


Jim
4/30/2018 06:52:30 pm

" Now the Templars got to the Rocky Mountains in the 11th century,"

They were fleeing the plague and persecution,,,,,,,,,,hundreds of years before this stuff happened.

Templar #1:
"We gotta run and hide from the Cistercians.
Templar #2:
"Why are we hiding from those pussys, they don't even have swords ?"

Jim
4/30/2018 06:57:14 pm

Oops, Cistercians should read Jesuits.

Joe Scales
5/1/2018 02:51:42 pm

Someone should cull some radio interview audio from Wolter and then stage reenactments with it a la Drunk History. That would make a very interesting youtube channel.

Reply
Jim
5/1/2018 02:59:46 pm

Weeelll now, If the Templars gave the Blackfoot tribe their treasures to be hidden away in a cave vault in Montana centuries before the Blackfeet even migrated into Montana, would that mean the Jesuits passed on their time travel technology to the Blackfoot ?

"Among the first Algonquian-language speakers to move westward from timberland to open grassland, the Blackfoot probably migrated on foot using wooden travois drawn by dogs to transport their goods. In the early 18th century they were pedestrian buffalo hunters living in the Saskatchewan valley about 400 miles (645 km) east of the Rocky Mountains. They acquired horses and firearms before 1750. Driving weaker tribes before them, the Blackfoot pushed westward to the Rockies and southward into what is now Montana. At the height of their power, in the first half of the 19th century, they held a vast territory extending from northern Saskatchewan to the southernmost headwaters of the Missouri River."

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Blackfoot-people

I think "Believes Anything" (Wolters Indian name) probably got sold a bill of goods from Juanita, the Blackfoot woman to whom Wolter said that fhe French were trying to steal the Blackfoot lands from the rightful owners, the Templars.

Wolter
"What people here probably haven't thought about is the conversations Juanita and I had that didn't make the final edit and off camera. She's very intelligent and understands the context of the story we were investigating."

Reply
Jim
5/1/2018 03:10:04 pm

By the by, I suppose I should provide a link to the above Wolter quote:

http://scottwolteranswers.blogspot.ca/2014/12/the-la-verendrye-stone-mystery.html

This is the same blog where Wolter demonstrates that even after an intimate inspection with the SANDSTONE hoodoos in Writing On Stone Park, he still misidentifies them as limestone columns.

"Having been to Writing on Stone Park and seeing hundreds of limestone columns with wind eroded recesses"

That's some geologist right there !!!

Reply
Americanegro
5/3/2018 03:12:36 pm

"This is the same blog where Wolter demonstrates that even after an intimate inspection with the SANDSTONE hoodoos in Writing On Stone Park, he still misidentifies them as limestone columns.

"Having been to Writing on Stone Park and seeing hundreds of limestone columns with wind eroded recesses"

That's some geologist right there !!!"

It should also be noted that Wolter also doesn't understand that "longer" and "shorter" are not the same thing, in spite of being corrected on his blog by one of his worthy correspondents
.

http://scottwolteranswers.blogspot.com/2017/11/proof-positive-kensington-rune-stone-is.html

Americanegro
5/1/2018 04:56:38 pm

"What people here probably haven't thought about is the conversations Juanita and I had that didn't make the final edit and off camera. She's very intelligent and understands the context of the story we were investigating."

So people didn't think about stuff you didn't show them? Wow, people, amirite? Mighty white of our Scott to compliment the native lady on her intelligence though.

Reply
Jim
5/3/2018 11:06:56 pm

Wheeee,,, Now we know where Wolter ripped off many of his nutso ideas !
Wolter:

" The tradition of guarding the Secret Vault have been passed down through the centuries and continues to this day. This is what native elders have told me and others like William Mann, who is half Ojibwa himself."

William Mann Book:

The Templar Meridians: The Secret Mapping of the New World

https://books.google.ca/books?id=9FsoDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT235&lpg=PT235&dq=William+Mann+Ojibwa&source=bl&ots=VTrLYYUx8V&sig=jqMBWeMEQWPdRkeW10KeUk_xVPI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjCnYa9_-raAhVH6WMKHUznDI0Q6AEISDAD#v=onepage&q=William%20Mann%20Ojibwa&f=false

"Here was a sanctuary for the outlawed Knights Templar and the Holy Bloodline, where it's inhabitants could lead simple lives in close harmony with both nature and the lands native inhabitants."

If you read the passages in the link, you can see how Wolter completely steals his nonsense from Mann's 2006 equally nonsensical book. It has it all, the Grail, goddess worship, natives, sacred geometry, Masons, Holy bloodline intermarried with the First Nations,, woo, woo, woo.
Mann is supposedly part Ojibwa, so it is Ojibwa/Templar centric.

Reply
Jim
5/4/2018 11:52:32 am

https://www.amazon.com/Labyrinth-Grail-William-F-Mann/dp/0965970183/ref=la_B001K84KVQ_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1525447857&sr=1-4

The Labyrinth of the Grail by William Mann - 1999

"When the author was a child a secret was revealed to him by his late uncle, a Grand Master of the Knights Templar of Canada. Only after years of study, observation and research, was the author able to understand this secret."

"By combining studies of Freemasonry and Templar history with Grail legends, classical mythology and sacred geometry, William Mann has assimilated hidden clues that point to the mysterious nature of the Holy Grail, the Holy Bloodline and the Knights Templar in Nova Scotia. "

Wolter has stolen Mann's shtick. He isn't making this crap up. We have been giving Wolter much too much credit!!
It seems other than a few tweaks Wolter is just parroting what Mann has been saying for almost 20 years.
Not an original thought too be seen, first he replicates Winchell's work, now we find all his new revelations are merely a recycling of Mann's nonsensical books.
Too funny !

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=William+F+Mann&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3AWilliam+F+Mann

Reply
Americanegro
5/4/2018 02:48:16 pm

Wolter and Mann are known snuggle buddies.

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-templar-sanctuaries-in-north-america-by-william-f-mann-part-1

Jim
5/4/2018 05:21:53 pm

Yes, I read that after my initial post. My point being that Wolter has adopted Mann's ideas rather than the other way around. Mann's book "The Labyrinth of the Grail" came out in 1999, a number of years years before Wolter had any books on the KRS published. This was also around the time Wolter was initially examining the stone, Mann already was expounding many of the views about the Templars, natives, Holy Bloodlines etc that Wolter would later make his own. Now Wolter is on this secret Native vault nonsense, again lifted from Mann.
The question is, has Scott done any work on his own, or is this all just plagiarism and copying ? He is beginning to sound like a copy, paste artist, see any similarities to his partner Pullitzer ?

Jim
5/4/2018 06:01:04 pm

Americanegro; Read the summery of Mann's 2016 book, it is almost an exact description of what Wolter has been putting forth most recently.

http://www.simonandschuster.ca/books/Templar-Sanctuaries-in-North-America/William-F-Mann/9781620555279

Wolter has replaced the Algonquin Ojibwa for the Algonquin Blackfeet and made a few other modifications, but it is essentially the same story.

Americanegro
5/5/2018 01:39:38 pm

Oh no, we're not arguing here. I agree on Mann's precedence. Anything that makes Wolter look like more of an ass, I'm all for it.

Joe Scales
5/4/2018 10:07:21 am

From Anthony:

"There are two more "Hooked X's" you may not be aware of. My time left may be short, I'd like to share."

Is our Scott going to lose one of his last remaining useful idiots? Should we send flowers? Does Patrick get a promotion?

Reply
Americanegro
5/4/2018 03:57:06 pm

If flowers will make him push off sooner I will send them. He's a mental patient, or should be. Maybe he and our Scott can go diving together.

Reply
Jim
5/4/2018 05:30:44 pm

Nah, that comment was posted after 8 pm. Probably has to leave the computer room by 9, and is then locked in his ward.

Reply
Jim
5/6/2018 02:04:17 pm

My latest comment to Wolter:

Oh, what a hypocrite you are Scott !

https://www.amazon.com/review/R2WH9VUHD8VDFY/ref=cm_cd_pg_pg12?ie=UTF8&asin=B00F8OIDOI&cdForum=Fx1M8POE15YTCJ5&cdPage=12&cdThread=TxIH5HAO6TWGL0&store=digital-text#wasThisHelpful

Scott;
"If you bothered to read my blog you'd see that anyone and everyone is welcome no matter how condescending or nasty they are. My only requirements are no profanity or blatant advertising for inappropriate material. Overinflated egos and misinformed individuals are welcome."

" That's fine, but at least present an argument with some validity."

As you well know I did present present an argument with some validity., however you again refuse to print my comment. You simply are too afraid to face your critics.
You seem to always win these debates on your blog when you mute your detractors. What a great debater you are!

" trying to sanitize anything that might divert from the narrative we are still trying fix."

Pot can't call the kettle black.

"As Bill Mann will tell you"

Bill Mann; Couldn't you give him more credit for all your work ! Seems you are copy and pasting all of his nonsense and claiming it as your own. Looks like about 95% of the contents of your books are just repeating his material.
And here we go again;

https://www.innertraditions.com/templar-sanctuaries-in-north-america.html

"Pinpointing the exact location of the Templar treasure still hidden in North America, the author also reveals the search for Templar sanctuaries to be the chief motivation behind the Lewis and Clark expedition and the murder of Meriwether Lewis. "

Wow, you copied Winchell's geology and then copy paste all Mann's work, is there anything original that you came up with Scott ?

All the best, Anom.

Reply
Joe Scales
5/7/2018 10:07:45 am

Wolter is now demanding evidence to refute hearsay.

Reply
Jim
5/7/2018 10:45:52 am

What a hero, he won't print my comments when I give him evidence, and then challenges me to give evidence against, as you say hearsay.
It's even worse than that, he won't even tell us what his hearsay is, that we are to refute, nor will he say who told him this " native oral tradition"
He's basically saying, "I know some stuff that I won't tell you, prove me wrong !"

Reply
Joe Scales
5/7/2018 12:58:40 pm

Wolter actually enjoys leading skeptics on, and then pulling the plug on them. That's why attempting to reason with him on his blog is futile. Best to make your digs with more subtlety.

Jim
5/7/2018 07:01:54 pm

I like poking the hive, it gets him stirred up, and he often makes a stupid off the cuff answer.
Joe, whats the deal with Olaf scraping the runes with a nail ? In a 2003 interview Wolter says all the runes were scraped but for 12, this sounds wrong to me. Could he have examined the wrong ones ?
6:45 mark ( this video downloads very slow but it does work, give it a few minutes)

http://www2.mnhs.org/library/findaids/01084/video/KRS_test_w.mp4

Joe Scales
5/8/2018 12:08:25 pm

Not certain of what was scraped or what wasn't. Been a while since I read all the particulars in this regard.

Jim
5/14/2018 10:47:25 pm

From Wolters Blog;

"Have you paid any attention to the facial hair of some of the men involved? Maybe it's just me...I've come across several examples of men with a mustache and a circular tuft of hair just below the bottom lip. Often the mustache is slicked to form a Chevron. Essentially the same symbol found on every pack of Marlborough cigarettes, and above an important tomb,"

Anthony Warren

Good to see all the gotcha comments have slowed down so Scotty can deal with serious matters such as this.

Reply
Mike Morgan
5/15/2018 10:21:02 am

Even more ridiculous, a real palm to the forehead head shaker, is found in his previous comment:

"I believe high-level communications were taking place using art instead of written letters." & "I'd like to figure out whom was communicating with, in order to figure out which paintings were the responses."

WHAAAAT???????

Wolter loves to allow comments by Anthony Warren, "People Of One Fire" Richard Thornton, aka MountainLion, and a certain pre-columbian Templar/Norse, KRS leaving, stone-hole making, expeditionary party incursion into the American heartland advocate He must feel they make him appear to be sane.

Reply
Jim
5/15/2018 01:50:38 pm

So, we will put you in the "no" column as regards to the Marlboro mans mustache signifying a Templar Chevron ?

Reply
Joe Scales
5/21/2018 10:47:55 am

Imbecile Patrick is back at it as well Jim, now referring to you and an "arborist". Now he's claiming "science" is his savior, perhaps taking a chapter from Wolter's book of mendacity.

In summary, Imbecile Patrick attempted to pass off a reverse negative image taken above the Newport Tower as showing evidence of some sort of rectangular foundation claiming it to be from a chancel where a proper image would have in fact shown a tree. Just admit it Patrick. You messed up. Big time.

Jim
5/21/2018 02:29:05 pm

That's hilarious, I jokingly said I wanted to hear from an arborist since they only accept data from people outside of their area of expertise.

Janet Barstad | Chronognostic Research Foundation:
M.S. Botany, Arizona State University, Tempe, Arizona

http://www.chronognostic.org/pdf/board_info/jan_barstad_cv.pdf

She is about as credible as Pulitzer. She hired archaeologists to help with their 2006-2008 dig around the tower and then had a falling out with them when their report said it was colonial era. She argued with them that it showed pre-columbian and supressed their report. The city of Newport or anyone else for that matter did not get to even see the report until the company that she hired to do the work gave a copy to the City just recently.
As far as I know the only thing to come of the GPS survey of area of which Patrick speaks is the remnants of a previous park pathway.

Jim
5/21/2018 02:56:37 pm

Should read GPR survey

Jim
5/21/2018 10:47:37 pm

Here is Patricks "science" proof.

http://www.chronognostic.org/photo_tour.php?date=20080601&id=25

LOL,,, not even close.

Patrick Shekleton
5/22/2018 11:00:04 am

http://www.newportri.com/news/20180516/researcher-discusses-mysteries-surrounding-touro-park-tower

Reply
Jim
5/22/2018 05:48:33 pm

http://minimemes.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/1399969536846.jpg

Reply
Patrick Shekleton
5/22/2018 08:37:32 pm

:)


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        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Scrapbook
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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