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Is Hermes Trismegistus the Secret Connection between Nephilim, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Holy Bloodline?

8/8/2016

63 Comments

 
Most of you will remember Richard Nielsen as the former writing partner of Scott F. Wolter, as well as one of the most consistent critics of his expansive claims for hidden codes in the Kensington Rune Stone. When Nielsen died, he left behind a very large research library. Through generous donation, and in a somewhat roundabout way, that portion of it dealing with the Knights Templar and Holy Bloodline conspiracies has fallen into my hands, amounting to 35 pounds of fringe history books covering the past 35 years in Holy Bloodline conspiracies. I’ve had a bit of time to look through these tomes, and I was frankly shocked at the boring sameness of them, and the repetitive nature of their trashy claims.
I thought it might be interesting to take a look at some of the claims, but to be entirely honest I had a hard time finding much in any of them that hadn’t first been discussed in the infamous Holy Blood and the Holy Grail (1982), the ur-text of the Templar-Bloodline conspiracy movement. While that book was speculative and unfounded, those that followed tended to forget even the minimal qualifiers that the original authors offered to make their thesis seem more palatable.
 
Lynn Picknett’s and Clive Prince’s The Templar Revelation—a book directly referenced in The Da Vinci Code, as the paperback cover proudly notes (though only in passing and by title)—is a case in point. The 1997 book seems to be written for the illiterate, full of dramatically italicized emphasis that the authors think substitutes for proving an assertion with facts. It opens with a faintly ridiculous claim that Leonardo da Vinci created the Shroud of Turin, ridiculous because the Shroud first enters the public record in 1357, more than 100 years too early to have been Leonardo’s work. Our authors cite their source as, of course, their own previous book, leaving it to readers to simply trust that they figured a way out of the chronological conundrum.
 
Time and again, the authors refer back to their previous book, seemingly in an effort to double their books sales. (The largest block of their citations is actually to the books of the authors of The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail, of which this tome is essentially a rewrite.) But that’s of less interest than the fact that in doing so, our authors help us to connect the Holy Bloodline conspiracy to—what else?—the Watchers. What, after all, is a conspiracy theory without the Watchers or the Nephilim?
 
In the opening chapter, Picknett and Prince allege that the Holy Bloodline conspiracy is part of the wider Hermetic movement, and that Leonardo and other “heretics” who stood against the official Church subscribed to an occult magical belief system derived from the Hermetic corpus. This would be a neat trick under any circumstance, but it is especially noteworthy since the Corpus Hermeticum had only been brought to Italy in 1460 and translated in 1471, just ten years before the authors allege that Leonardo had begun producing art to embody conspiracy theories. How, one might ask, did such a widespread hermetic cult develop in ten years’ time? That, sadly, is a mystery that we cannot solve. The Hermetic materials available in the West before the publication of the Corpus—the Emerald Tablet, a few references in Classical authors, and mentions of Hermes in Christian chronologies—seem insufficient to indicate the existence of a secret Hermetic cult prior to the arrival of Byzantine Greek Hermetic texts in 1460 and their publication in Latin a decade later.
 
The detail, alas, are said in an endnote to be found only in the authors’ previous book.
 
The interesting thing about Hermeticism, from my perspective, is that the character of Hermes is a sort of composite figure who embodies stories originally ascribed in earlier myths and legends to the antediluvians in the time of the Watchers. Leaving aside the complex question of the three to five different Hermes characters who sprang from one original, Hermes Trismegistus is said to have warned of the coming destruction by flood and fire (as Enoch and Idris had done) and to have inscribed the secrets of all wisdom on standing stones or tablets (again as Enoch had done). Such stories were prevalent as early as the Kore Kosmou, a Hermetic text of perhaps the first century BCE or CE. By 300 CE, the connection between Hermes and the Watchers was so firmly fixed that the alchemist Zosimus of Panoplis blithely ascribes understanding of the Watchers’ antediluvian wisdom (best known from the Book of Enoch) to Hermes:
The sacred Scriptures inform us that there exists a tribe of genii, who make use of women. Hermes mentions this circumstance in his Physics; and almost every writing, whether sacred or apocryphal, states the same thing. The ancient and divine Scriptures inform us, that the angels, captivated by women, taught them all the operations of nature. Offence being taken at this, they remained out of heaven, because they had taught mankind all manner of evil, and things which could not be advantageous to their souls. The Scriptures inform us that the giants sprang from these embraces. Chema is the first of their traditions respecting these arts. The book itself they called Chema; hence the art is called Chemia. (George Syncellus, Chronicle 18, trans. Thomas Thompson)
Since Hermes is the founder and master of chemia (alchemy), he is therefore the master of the Watchers’ wisdom. To argue that Leonardo was a follower of Hermes is to argue that he, too, is privy to the Watchers’ secret teachings.
 
But whiffs of the absurd rise up from this story, too, for the story of Hermes Trismegistus was hardly a secret, and certainly not forbidden knowledge to good Catholics in the Middle Ages, provided one was not actually worshiping him. A few might have been aware that Eastern Christians preserved traditions that Hermes was the pagan name for Enoch (e.g. Bar Hebraeus, Chronology 1), or that Muslims believed Hermes to be the same as both Enoch and Idris. By 1450—twenty years before the Corpus Hermeticum was published—Freemasons were already ascribing to Hermes Trismegistus the wisdom of the Watchers (e.g. Matthew Cooke MS.). This is hardly a surprise since absolutely orthodox Catholic chronologers like Peter Comestor and Ranulf Higden had made mention of him under his Latin name: “The noble Mercury is said to have been in this time the son of the daughter of Atlas, begotten by Maia, wise in many arts, wherefore he was called a god after his death” (Higden, Polychronicon 2.14, adapted from a medieval English translation).
 
It seems a bit difficult to imagine that the Church was suppressing information about a character that Catholic monks wrote about in the most popular works of the day. “The threat to the Church of Rome is obvious,” the authors write of Hermeticism, viewing it as a branch of feminist Gnosticism. Indeed, our authors praise the 1471 translator of the Corpus Hermetica, Marsilio Ficino, as one of the most “notorious” of “occult thinkers.” Ficino was a Catholic priest—literally part of the “Church of Rome.” He’s also the first translator of Plato (Atlantis!) and the Orphic Argonautica, which speaks more to his interest in Classical learning than secret occultism. In fact, Ficino’s driving goal was to find a way to reconcile Neoplatonism with orthodox Catholicism. He did in fact get in trouble with the Church for practicing magic, but it wasn’t related to Hermeticism. Eighteen years after he translated the Corpus Hermeticum, the Church became upset that he practiced astrology and had declared it true and accurate. The dispute arose because the same Ficino who had rejected astrology in the 1470s came to embrace it in the 1480s and considered it a science that could be used to create medical talismans for healing. The Church called it sinful witchery. This is decidedly not the same as Hermetic-occultist Holy Bloodline heresy.
 
Just for kicks, it’s probably worth noting that Ficino’s astrological beliefs were influenced by those of Abu Ma‘shar, the early medieval Persian astrologer who ascribed to Hermes Trismegistus the antediluvian wisdom of the Watchers! (He rejected many of Abu Ma‘shar’s more complex formulations, if you care.) Ficino wasn’t alone in using Arabic astrological sources. Abu Ma‘shar is cited as well by Nicholas of Cusa (albeit critically), who, incidentally, was a Prince of the Church (a cardinal) and the vicar general of the Papal States.
 
Some secret!
 
Indeed, it seems to be churchmen who had the most and best information about Hermes Trismegistus during Leonardo’s lifetime.
 
There are so many absurdities in the book that it’s amazing anyone ever took it seriously. Holy Bloodline conspiracy? Check. “Lost Templar Fleet” discussed without any knowledge of the original source? Check. (They know it only from the book The Temple and the Lodge.) Recycling Louis Martin’s arguments about the lost tomb of Jesus in Provence without understanding that he made them up, or even that he started the story? Of course!
 
Consider this: The authors also allege that the Order of the Golden Fleece was an explicit continuation of “Templar” brotherhood. It most certainly was not. The Order of the Golden Fleece was explicitly modeled on Jason and the Argonauts (hence the name and the commissioned novelization, the famous Histoire de Jason) and was designed as Burgundy’s answer to England’s Order of the Garter, which the Duke of Burgundy wasn’t able to accept for political reasons, prompting his jealousy. This lie is a bit of Sinclair family propaganda. It derives from claims made about the Sinclair who served as the first Grand Master of Scottish Freemasons, William St. Clair, who was said to have been a member of the Order of the Golden Fleece (though no record exists) and the Order of Santiago (of which also no record exists), the latter of which was connected to the Templars. The claim came from a Father Hay, a Sinclair super-fan of the 1600s who wrote a hagiographic history of the haughty lineage.
 
So where do you think Picknett and Prince got this ridiculous idea? Andrew Sinclair. And him? Oh, right: From the authors of The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail. In the quasi-sequel, The Temple and the Lodge (1989), co-authors Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh assert quite without evidence that nearly every order of chivalry founded in the 1300s and 1400s was explicitly modeled on and designed to continue that of the Templars. “They looked to the Temple as a model,” they write. Our authors conflate modeling (itself an iffy proposition) with direct descent. It’s probably worth mentioning that the version of the story Picknett and Prince use is almost identical to the fictitious connection between the Order of the Golden Fleece and the Templars that Umberto Eco concocted for Focault’s Pendulum in 1989, where the Order is imbued with the “Templar spirit.” Eco didn’t mean it seriously.
 
I see I am running a bit long. I’ll finish up by noting my discomfort with the authors’ reliance on Sincalir family propaganda to shore up their shaky thesis. It’s a bit uncomfortable in light of recent revelations about Niven Sinclair’s child rape convictions to hear the authors lionize him as the finest fruit of an “illustrious” family. 
63 Comments
Only Me
8/8/2016 11:21:08 am

One correction: Second to last sentence, second to last paragraph, "Oder" should be order.

Interestingly, I think there is a definite odor permeating the whole affair. It's similar to the smell when one passes a stockyard.

Reply
Clete
8/8/2016 11:53:10 am

It seems that fringe writers to prove their theories all do the same thing. They circle around quoting, not the original sources, but other fringe authors, including themselves.

"I have valid source."

"Who?"

"Why, it is me, myself and I"

Reply
Templar Secret
8/8/2016 12:37:51 pm

>>Recycling Louis Martin’s arguments

Alas, Louis Martin was unknown during the 1990s and was only recently re-discovered by Christian Doumergue.

Reply
Harper
8/8/2016 12:45:06 pm

How can you possibly claim that you know what good Catholics in the middle ages would know? Your bloviation is worse than those you try to trash.

Reply
Only Me
8/8/2016 01:04:02 pm

Context is everything.

"the story of Hermes Trismegistus was hardly a secret, and certainly not forbidden knowledge to good Catholics in the Middle Ages, provided one was not actually worshiping him."

"It seems a bit difficult to imagine that the Church was suppressing information about a character that Catholic monks wrote about in the most popular works of the day."

Contrary to popular opinion, the Middle Ages weren't all "dark".

Reply
Templar Secret
8/8/2016 04:36:20 pm

Hermes's theological system, known as Hermesianism, was later condemned by Vatican Council I (1870).

Theological correction, 23,432
8/8/2016 04:59:21 pm

This is a reference to George Hermes, not to Hermetica.

lurkster
8/8/2016 06:06:05 pm

It's a well documented fact that Thomas Aquinas and Augustine considered Hermes Trismegistus to be a wise pagan prophet who foresaw the coming of Christianity. Their church-sanctioned Scholarship on the subject was merely a few of the latter chapters of Catholic writings on the topic dating back to the middle ages.

Reply
Templar Secret
8/9/2016 04:12:01 am

>>> foresaw the coming of Christianity<<<

An unfortunate bane the homo sapiens species.

Templar Secret
8/9/2016 04:25:52 am

Some estimates place the origin of Homo Sapiens about 200,000 years ago. That's a considerable number of generations not saved by Christ. Then there was the introduction of democracy by the breaking of throne and altar that led to the secular states and the creation of elected parliaments, whereby laws originated not from God but by political means.

Then there are the competing religions of Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism.

That's an awful lot of homo sapiens not saved by Christ.

Templar Secret
8/9/2016 04:35:31 am

Yes, there were pockets of Monarchist-Free states before the 18th century, but there was no direct connection between these and the origin, evolution and development of democracy and elected parliaments that was to appear from the 19th century onwards. The sociological shift of society and the replacement of throne and altar by democracies at the background to which lay Freemasonry, which was a mystic-secular replacement of Christianity at the highest level in all societies,

France, Mexico, United States.
Three examples.
But it all began with Britain and the toppling of King James II and the establishment of a Constitutional Monarchy that existed in name only and where Parliament became the Ruling Power, where the Prime Minister wrote the King's and Queen's Speeches.

Templar Secrets
8/11/2016 02:25:24 pm

In Freemasonry the Temple of Solomon is used as a metaphor for the building of wisdom, or mind expansion which, by extension can also apply to the creation of a new society, or a New World Order, Hence the symbolism of initiation into higher degrees.

Ultimately, Freemasonry is banal politics and nothing else. Society had changed because there was no longer any need to belong to any religion whatsoever and the power of the Vatican had long expired by the 19th century.

It was safe to believe in anything at all. Complete freedom had become established. But there was still a long way to go to achieve the secular and democratic society governed by Parliaments (or House of Congress) that we take for granted today.



JJ
8/8/2016 01:44:16 pm

Jason, the one paragraph where you mention the 1450 date, did you mean that there were Freemasons at this early date?

Reply
Jason Colavito link
8/8/2016 03:54:50 pm

That's a complicated question. The Matthew Cooke MS. dates to 1450 and is accepted by Freemasons as one of their "Gothic Constitutions." It was, as I understand it, a text for the guild of actual masons before it was adopted by the Freemasons as we know them today.

Reply
Templar Secret
8/8/2016 04:27:26 pm

The claim that Freemasonry evolved from Guild Masonry is only an unproven theory. It cannot be backed up.

Temple Secret
8/8/2016 05:12:16 pm

The etymology of the word Freemason is unknown.
The very word seems obfuscatory.

Mark L
8/9/2016 01:59:15 am

No it's not, and no it isn't.

Templar Secret
8/9/2016 04:14:18 am

The definition of the word Freemason is circular - the origin given in standard dictionaries originates from Freemasonry itself.

And Freemasonry did not develop out of Operative Masonry.

Nobody has ever been able to demonstrate that.

DaveR
8/9/2016 08:56:05 am

The word Freemason did originate from the Guild Masons who were not bonded to serve under the feudal system. They were free to travel and apply their skills as free men and the guild helped fix their wages. This was documented in 1350. In 1441 Eton College listed 41 men as freemasons. By 1495 the term was in English statutes.

I could go on, but it's clear that the word Freemason most assuredly originated with skilled masons applying their skills.

Templar Secret
8/9/2016 10:14:44 am

Reference(s) ??

DaveR
8/9/2016 12:00:45 pm

Where are your references?

Carl Morrey
8/10/2016 05:58:45 am

Hi Templar Sectets this may help with DaveR for a reference
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/cooke.html

Templar Secrets
8/10/2016 06:06:10 am

Dave R.

Here is your source:
Act 25, Edward III, st. II, e. 3, A.D. 1350, and sculptores lapidum liberorum "carvers of free stones," alleged to occur in a document of 1217

http://www.masonicdictionary.com/freemason.html

However, the word "free mason" within the context of Operative Masonry did not seem to be a common word and certainly had no connection with later Freemasonry.

"Masonry" within "Freemasonry" is symbolical of something else, The Temple of Solomon within Freemasonry is a spiritual, not physical, phenomenon. That's why Freemasonry did not "evolve out of Operative Masonry".

DaveR
8/10/2016 07:37:19 am

Templar Secret:

Right back at you:

http://freemasoninformation.com/masonic-education/history/origin-of-the-word-freemason/

"Mr. Coupon states that prior to 1350 all masons came under the general term caemantarii which had been a common name for them in much earlier times, but in 1350 a statute was passed which fixed the wages of “master freestone masons” at four pennies a day, of other masons at three pennies, and of their servants (apprentices) at one and one-half pennies. He says this phrase Mestre mason de franche pere is most significant for the probable origin of the term “freemason.” In 1360 the statute was amended which fixed the wages of the “chief masters of masons” (chiefs mestres de maceons) at four pennies a day, and the other masons at two pennies or three pennies according to their worth, and then went on to provide that: “All alliances and covines of masons and carpenters, and congregations, chapters, ordinances and oaths betwixt them made, or to be made, shall be from henceforth void and wholly annulled; so that every mason and carpenter, of what condition that he be, shall be compelled by his master to whom he serveth to do every work that to him pertaineth to do, or of free stone, or of rough stone.” Here again is an indication suggestive of the original derivation of ” freemason” from “free stone.”

You claimed the etymology of the word Freemason is unknown, yet it is clear the word originated with masons and referenced those masons in particular who were not bound to serve a master.

The cult of Freemasonry may not have originated from the mason craftsmen, but the word certainly did originate with them and their guild.

Templar Secrets
8/10/2016 08:13:21 pm

DaveR,

Rest assured that Freemasonry is about the building of ideas and not about Stone Cutting.

The Foundation Stone that Freemasons were interested in was the Power Source, not the actual block of stone itself,

That was why Speculative Freemasonry did not evolve out of Operative Masonry.

An Over-Educated Grunt
8/11/2016 09:48:56 am

. <- Point
Name du Jour -> .

You said the etymology is unclear. Dave proved it by reference and you reply with a dressed-up "well that doesn't count." Typical.

DaveR
8/11/2016 11:52:23 am

Templar Secret:

As I said before, the beliefs and practices involving the cult of Freemasonry may have not evolved from the Freemason guild, but the name clearly has its origins in the guild.

Templar Secrets
8/11/2016 02:11:36 pm

Grunt,

No it does NOT COUNT,

The original usage of the word Freemason had become an extinct fossil by the 18th century. And nobody can prove that the Freemasonry of the 18th century had dragged up an obsolete word in order to use it again,

Freemason - Free from Masonry - nothing to do with stone cutting,
This is just as likely.

And your piffling arguments about non-Monarchist states in order to distract attention away from the origins of elections and democracies that toppled Throne and Altar leaves much to be desired.

An Over-Educated Grunt
8/11/2016 02:44:36 pm

At this point I've decided you're not worth arguing with because anything that doesn't fit your paradigm doesn't count. Magna Carta guaranteed right to fair and speedy trial? Doesn't count! Charter of 1295 guarantees no taxation without representation? Doesn't count! Henry VIII used Commons to breach with Rome? Doesn't count! Cromwell was a member of the Commons, Civil War fought over Parliament's right of consultation on taxation? DOES NOT COUNT!

You're an idiot and all you deserve is ridicule. So... ridicule it shall be.

Templar Secret
8/11/2016 05:41:58 pm

No - it does NOT COUNT

You do not understand that the origin and evolution of Democracies and elections are far removed from what you are mumbling about, and that it was a gradual process that began to form during the late 19th century.

Look how far removed the society of the 19th century was to the Magna Carta of the 13th century that was something completely different belonging to a completely different history and social structure.

You refuse to address this for one simple reason - because you cannot understand - because you are short of comprehension.

Templar Secret
8/11/2016 05:50:52 pm

>>>Charter of 1295 guarantees no taxation without representation?<<<

>>>Henry VIII used Commons to breach with Rome?<<<

>>>Cromwell was a member of the Commons, Civil War fought over Parliament's right of consultation on taxation?<<<


NONE of these things are remotely connected with the origin of democracies and the introduction of elections that cancelled out the existence of throne and altar.,

Cromwell is a perfect example. When Cromwell died Charles II was invited to rule England as a King because society at that time did not know how to replace the Monarchy.

It does not matter if the execution of Charles I further reduced the power of the Monarch. This is all far removed from the replacement of throne and altar with elected democracies where the King was a Constitutional Monarch and the sockpuppet of Parliament,

Parliament became the ruling and dominating power in England following the jettisoning of James II.

An Over-Educated Grunt
8/11/2016 06:24:42 pm

Ah yes. A gradual process that began in the 19th Century with the overthrow of James II in 1688. A gradual process that most certainly had nothing to do with the requirement that the king sit a parliament, and had nothing to do with a demonstrated pattern of the erosion of royal power. Clearly I'm the one who's confused.

If you had one more M in your primary characteristic you'd be a Mormon.

Templar Secrets
8/12/2016 08:06:54 am

You can't change history with your incoherent mumblings inspired by your desire to poo poo Fremasonry out of history,

Just because you believe there was nothing to Freemasonry and that it was nothing more than esoteric mumbo jumbo.

Let me remind you that Christianity was the basis of Western Civilization and that is pure mumbo jumbo about some miracle worker rising from the dead - and devoid of interpretation to boot.

Obvious example of literalised myth. At least the story of Hiram Abiff was not historical in the first place and always belonged to the world of the abstract.

Templar Secret
8/12/2016 08:14:52 am

You forgot to add the words Constitutional Monarchy and what led up to its foundation - an unprecedented moment in history - something that had never existed before in the entire history of Western Civilization. Even Queen Victoria was a sockpuppet.


>>>Ah yes. A gradual process that began in the 19th Century with the overthrow of James II in 1688. A gradual process that most certainly had nothing to do with the requirement that the king sit a parliament, and had nothing to do with a demonstrated pattern of the erosion of royal power. Clearly I'm the one who's confused <<<




Ph
8/8/2016 06:19:35 pm

The Regius Poem | Halliwell Manuscript also shows some evidence of freemasonry at that time.

see the text at http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/regius.html

Reply
Templar Secrets
8/11/2016 05:55:15 pm

And there's also the Haughfoot Manuscript and other evidence showing that Speculative Non-Operative Freemasonry existed during the 17th century. But note, none of those ancient manuscripts ever claim that Speculative Freemasonry evolved out of Operative Masonry.

Shane Sullivan
8/8/2016 01:56:53 pm

Fun fact: Both Leonardo da Vinci and Marsilio Ficino were acquaintances of Lorenzo de' Medici. So there's actually an indirect link there, although it does nothing to support Picknett's and Prince's claim.

Reply
Templar Secret
8/8/2016 04:28:19 pm

Leonardo da Vinci scoffed at religion.

Reply
Not the Comte de Saint Germain
8/8/2016 02:23:05 pm

I'd like to add some details to this post. They're based mainly on The Secret History of Hermes Trismegistus by Florian Ebeling, which despite its title is a serious study of Hermeticism, not a pile of conspiracy theory.

The medieval attitude toward Hermes Trismegistus was ambivalent. Augustine of Hippo spent a lot of time refuting the arguments of Hermetic texts, but he said that they were right about some things. In medieval eyes, Hermes Trismegistus sat uncomfortably in between the category of admirable pagan thinkers, like Plato and Aristotle, and defenders of paganism and idolatry—the Asclepius, one of the most important Hermetic texts, includes a passage describing idol-worship with approval, which naturally received Augustine's harshest condemnation.

It isn't entirely true, though, that medieval Catholics were limited to the Emerald Tablet and scattered references to Hermes Trismegistus until Ficino's translations. A lot of them could only cite the passages of Augustine that quote the Asclepius, but apparently Albertus Magnus and Nicholas of Cusa both got their hands on the Asclepius itself and wrote about it. I'm not sure how they obtained it, though Nicholas might have done it during his visit to Constantinople in 1437 and 1438.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
8/8/2016 03:56:05 pm

Thanks! As always, the story is much more complicated than can easily be described in a few paragraphs.

Reply
Templar Secret
8/8/2016 04:30:27 pm

Oh no, Florian Ebeling is a Professor at Heidelberg University

Reply
Only Me
8/8/2016 11:09:19 pm

Oh no, Heidelberg University has been associated with 56 Nobel Prize laureates and counts 11 foreign and domestic Heads of State or Heads of Government among its alumni.

Templar Secret
8/8/2016 04:32:10 pm

>>>Augustine of Hippo spent a lot of time refuting the arguments of Hermetic texts, but he said that they were right about some things.<<<

Only when the texts confirmed Catholic mumbo jumbo and superstition. As was always the case.

Reply
Colavito.the.Liar
8/8/2016 06:52:52 pm

So. I have found the Circle-Jerk of Stupidity. It's right here... on the corner of Loser Land and Retard Road.
Colavito is a plagiarizing, fecal smear!
Everything that pours out of his mouth is oral diarrhea, and is easily disproven by the facts:

http://chronologiesmasterlist.blogspot.ca/

Suck it, Colavito.. accept and embrace your inferiority!
And to that mighty following (OMG I have to laugh when I ay that) "Get a Life... and Sop Watching TV Shows That Get You Cranky. You People Are Pathetic!"

Don't bother trying to respond... you ain't relevant enough to get any reply.

Reply
Uncle Ron
8/8/2016 07:30:35 pm

Oh my! Somebody's having a hissy-fit.

Reply
Only Me
8/8/2016 11:04:22 pm

"Don't bother trying to respond...you ain't relevant enough to get any reply."

Thank goodness! There's only so much laughter my sides can handle from reading the tantrums of a man-child.

Reply
Mark L
8/9/2016 02:36:23 am

Another tedious git who thinks no-one ever lied in 19th century newspapers.

Reply
Templar Secret
8/9/2016 04:17:44 am

And there are no lies in the Bible either,
The Bible is as clean as a whistle.

John (the other one)
8/10/2016 01:06:55 pm

Jason,

Is this the Canadian bible giant newspaper scan research guy who had the issue with you plagiarizing him last year?

Did that ever go anywhere?

Reply
Not the Comte de Saint Germain
8/10/2016 06:18:07 pm

Yes, it is that guy.

DaveR
8/10/2016 02:14:21 pm

You're only upset because you recently discovered you're nothing more than a semen stain on the mailman's boxers.

Reply
John (the other one)
8/10/2016 07:29:17 pm

When you consider all of time and space none of us are really more then a semen stain on the mailman's boxers of the universe.

DaveR
8/11/2016 08:22:51 am

Nothing but pimples on the buttocks of the universe.

Gunn
8/8/2016 08:37:07 pm

Hi Jason. I'm wondering in an innocent manner how this all may intertwine or fare with the probable hooked x mason mark at Rosslyn Chapel, which claims an origination date of 1446? Do you suppose that actual Freemasons built the chapel, but that there is yet no connection between Templars and Freemasons? That you know of, does it appear in any way at all that Freemasonry may have evolved from Templar philosophy?

Lastly, in your opinion, does Wolter's learning of several other hooked x's in Icelandic literature several months ago, not related to Templars specifically, throw a monkey-wrench into his idea that Knights Templar used the hooked x, pretty much exclusively...as a main proof that the Kensington Runestone was created by Templars/Cistercians? Thanks for the indulgence.

Reply
John (the other one)
8/9/2016 12:36:31 am

Isn't the hooked part of the "hooked X" just an ink mark left over from a writing sample used by the person who carved the stone?

You see medieval manuscripts with lots embellished letters, they have all sorts of markings on different letters.

I think Jason wrote about this previously.

Reply
Templar Secret
8/9/2016 04:16:43 am

In the Beginning was the Hooked X
All hail the Hooked X
The Hooked X brings together and answers all the esoteric mysteries.

Gunn
8/9/2016 08:51:57 am

We are talking about stone here, not ink, and history understanding changes with time.

Templar Secret
8/9/2016 10:21:40 am

there is not a single academic offering to support its authenticity.

With the apparent exception of Richard Nielsen (who has distanced himself from Scott Wolter's pseudohistorical claims) and Alice Beck Kehoe.




Joe Scales
8/9/2016 10:23:03 am

Wolter never found any medieval hooked X's that represented the letter A, as found on the KRS. He found some hooked X's representing the letter A that were contemporary with the age of the Larsson Papers (which of course hurt his cause) and then tried to deceive his blog readers by mixing them with older, various ornamental X's. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt (which would be extreme latitude) in calling those ornamental X's "hooked", they still did not stand in for the letter A where they occurred. So nothing to see there, but for more mendacity on the part of Wolter in cherry picking evidence and misrepresenting it to boot.

John (the other one)
8/9/2016 11:26:19 pm

Gunn,

A stone mason would have had an ink drawing in front of him from someone who could write (a mason likely would not have been able to). The mason would have been tasked with carving or chiseling what was in ink on the paper into the stone surface. My guess is the "hooked x" is actually a mistake and they put the little mark not at the end of the X as they were supposed to but down the arm of the X. Frankly it makes a lot more sense then a lot of conspiracy theory.

Most medieval Xs look the same, some look different. Is it more likely it is a secret code, sloppy work, tired craftsmen, simple error, or all of the above minus the secret code?

Yes, history can change. Understanding that an out of place object might be just that, an out of place object, doesn't change.

Why look for the most exciting/conspiracy laden/implausible explanation. Why not look for the most logical explanation?

It's similar with the stone hole code stone. I looked over the picture, it looks like they were practicing drilling into that one rock, possibly testing different bits or speeds on a new rock and the they moved on to other rocks. It seems less likely that it is a secret code stone. The other part is the arrangement of rocks nearby, what if they are just rocks nearby? I like moving rocks around when I'm eating lunch when I hike, I find it relaxing. Someone like me could have out them there sometime in the last millennia.

Carl Morrey
8/10/2016 04:53:58 am

Hi Gunn
There is this article about mason marks that may be of use/interest to you
https://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/arthistory/staff/ja/research/masonsmarks/

Reply
Tom
8/9/2016 05:27:08 am

Most of this"arcane" stuff is just childish fantasy. As far as Hermes Trismegistus is concerned we have The Trinity and I have also seen references to Thrice Great Pan and the more we dig the more we find so the three in one is hardly a rarity.
The Jesus Bloodline is a nonsense, we have absolutely no evidence to support it and theologically in order to die for the sins of the world as a "one of sacrifice" Jesus could not possibily have previously divided the seed of David with any offspring since the sacrifice would be continue even to this day.

Reply
Templar Secret
8/9/2016 01:36:55 pm

Louis Martin's motives for a Jesus Family (he did not mention descendants and genealogy) were to do with Left-Wing Politics and the demythologising of Christianity. At complete odds to those who believe in the Jesus Bloodline who want to restore a "Jesus Lineage".

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    • Videos
    • Collection: Ancient Alien Fraud >
      • Chariots of the Gods at 50
      • Secret History of Ancient Astronauts
      • Of Atlantis and Aliens
      • Aliens and Ancient Texts
      • Profiles in Ancient Astronautics >
        • Erich von Däniken
        • Robert Temple
        • Giorgio Tsoukalos
        • David Childress
      • Blunders in the Sky
      • The Case of the False Quotes
      • Alternative Authors' Quote Fraud
      • David Childress & the Aliens
      • Faking Ancient Art in Uzbekistan
      • Intimations of Persecution
      • Zecharia Sitchin's World
      • Jesus' Alien Ancestors?
      • Extraterrestrial Evolution?
    • Collection: Skeptic Magazine >
      • America Before Review
      • Native American Discovery of Europe
      • Interview: Scott Sigler
      • Golden Fleeced
      • Oh the Horror
      • Discovery of America
      • Supernatural Television
      • Review of Civilization One
      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
      • Charioteer of the Gods
    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
      • The China Syndrome
      • Atlantis, Mu, and the Maya
      • Easter Island Exposed
      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
      • Lovecraft in Bergier
      • Lovecraft and Scientology
    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
      • Aliens and Anal Probes
      • Ultra-Terrestrials and UFOs
      • Rebels, Queers, and Aliens
    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
    • The Curse of the Pharaohs
    • The Antediluvian Pyramid Myth
    • Whitewashing American Prehistory
    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
      • Ancient Texts >
        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Eridu Genesis
          • Atrahasis Epic
          • Epic of Gilgamesh
          • Kutha Creation Legend
          • Babylonian Creation Myth
          • Descent of Ishtar
          • Resurrection of Marduk
          • Berossus
          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
          • Dream Stela of Thutmose IV
          • The Papyrus of Ani
          • Classical Accounts of the Pyramids
          • Inventory Stela
          • Manetho
          • Eratosthenes' King List
          • The Story of Setna
          • Leon of Pella
          • Diodorus on Egyptian History
          • On Isis and Osiris
          • Famine Stela
          • Old Egyptian Chronicle
          • The Book of Sothis
          • Horapollo
          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
          • The Asclepius
          • The Emerald Tablet
          • Hermetic Fragments
          • Prologue to the Kyranides
          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
        • Zoroastrian Fatal Winter
        • Ctesias' Indica
        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Fragments of Artapanus
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Fragments of Bruttius
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Byzantine World Chronicle
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Chronicle to 724
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Pseudo-Diocles Fragmentum
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • Popol Vuh
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Atlantis as Biblical History
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Atlantis and Nimrod
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and Hanno's Periplus
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
          • Amazing New Light (Hoax)
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • History of Paleontology
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • Arabic Names of Egyptian Kings
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • America Known to the Ancients
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Remarkable Discoveries Within the Sphinx (Hoax)
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • The Shaver Mystery >
          • Lovecraft and the Deros
          • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • CIA Search for the Ark of the Covenant
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • The Fall of the Sky
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Poltergeist UFOs
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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