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Jacques Vallée Claims to Have Proof CIA Faked Alien Abductions as "Psychological Warfare," Refuses to Let Anyone See It

12/21/2019

126 Comments

 
A few months ago, Jacques Vallée, the longtime UFO researcher and scientific advisor to space-demon-hunting billionaire Robert Bigelow, published the fourth volume of his diaries, Forbidden Science, covering the 1990s. In that book, Vallée made the shocking allegation that the CIA staged fake alien abductions in Latin America and that there were documents that supported the allegation: “I have secured a document confirming that the CIA simulated UFO abductions in Latin America (Brazil and Argentina) as psychological warfare experiments.” Vallée did not provide support for the dramatic assertion in Forbidden Science, which prompted Jack Brewer of The UFO Trail blog to ask him for his evidence. The answer was… exactly what you’d expect: a mixture of arrogance, incuriosity, and buck-passing in place of actual proof.
When asked directly to provide evidence to support the assertion, Vallée replied with this nonsense:
I am not an expert in any of it, but my computer surveys tend to go TILT! when some relevant cases come up. So I don’t have a dog in the political fight, I’m just trying to avoid polluting my databases with garbage. That’s why I felt a duty to call attention to the issue. If you talk to serious researchers in Latin America, you will find they are not as naive in this field as US ufologists.
Nothing in that response had any relevance to the question, and kudos to Brewer for pushing back on Vallée’s Continental curlicue of rhetorical avoidance. While Brewer is much more deferential to Vallée’s perceived status as an elder statesman of paranoid paranormal studies than I would ever be, he did manage to ruffle the old man’s feathers by asking him for proof. Vallée’s response on Thursday was the kind of deflection popular with politicians who want to avoid committing to a position:
I don’t have any further comments on the substance of the request or, obviously, about my source which I am obligated to protect. […] Most of the documents I have referred to, or used in the compilation of my diaries, have been donated to a University with a 10-year embargo on access — specifically to avoid the kind of spurious quarrels that erupt in ufology on a regular basis. So I expect that historical details like these will see the light of day in due course.
Just consider for a moment the sheer disingenuousness of this statement. Government documents are public records, so if Vallée has one, the only way he would be obliged to protect it is if the document were classified and he received if via an illegal leak, in which case he should not be providing illegal documents to a university. Or, worse, he could be using the word “document” to hide the fact that he is not using actual U.S. government documents but rather news reports, paranoid screeds, or any other scraps of paper from Latin America. (The document might be a Latin American government report, but this seems unlikely given that it is reporting on two countries who were hostile to one another until the 1980s.) Second, since his original statement was made in the 1990s, any documents must have been in his possession at least 20 years, meaning that he is using the 10-year embargo—which he himself chose—in order to avoid the need to provide evidence for his claims. He has withheld potentially explosive evidence for 30 years or more (!) while personally benefited from pretending to be the only mediator between the evidence and the public.
 
Vallée need not “expect” mere “details” to be public “in due course.” He could release the documents right now if he so chose, or he could tell us what the documents are so that they could be obtained directly from the relevant government agencies, or so they could be revealed to be random noise from midcentury ufologists. Indeed, the CIA’s publicly released UFO files find Spanish-language newspaper reports cataloging conspiracy theories about the CIA’s activities in Latin America.
 
Vallée’s assertion is not entirely ridiculous on the surface, and it would go a long way toward demonstrating that many of the elements of modern ufology are not the semi-supernatural occurrences of popular depiction. His refusal to provide the proof that at least some space aliens aren’t from outer space is bizarre given that elements of his claims are already available in public records. The CIA’s own documents, available online, record that in the early 1950s, Walter Bedell Smith, the Director of Central Intelligence, asked how to use “the UFO phenomenon in connection with US psychological warfare efforts,” a directive recorded in a contemporary memorandum in 1952.
 
Anyway, Vallée has a long track record of accepting dubious claims, questionable evidence, and hoaxes as data in his grand but often incoherent models of UFOs as an interdimensional paranormal phenomenon. He also has longstanding relationships with Robert Bigelow and the members of To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science, all of whom suckle at the government teat as recipients of Defense Department largesse, and the latter claiming also to have secret information from intelligence agencies like the CIA. The real question is this: What is he hiding, and why doesn’t he want us to see it?
126 Comments
An Anonymous Nerd
12/21/2019 10:34:14 am

"Researcher" is not an appropriate word, as it implies actual research was performed.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Reply
Machala
12/21/2019 11:23:01 am

Once again Valée slithers around the truth and hides his fabrications by telling us the "documental proofs" were donated to an UNAMED University to be held from public view for ten years, or such time as when Valée has become so non compos mentis, that he won't care that everyone finds out what a fraud he really was.

Not that I don't believe that the CIA or their nafarious brothers in the DIA aren't perfectly capable of concocting such a scheme but to what end - quo vadis? Too scare the natives? Why? The whole thing is too ridiculous - even for the American spooks - to have been taken seriously and implemented. Maybe the Space Alien devils made them do it?

Reply
Vallee
12/21/2019 11:37:49 am

You're no better than Vallee
Too many anti-Semitic people on this blog

Reply
Kent
12/21/2019 01:47:02 pm

"The whole thing is too ridiculous - even for the American spooks - to have been taken seriously and implemented."

Wow, are you uninformed.

Reply
Machala
12/21/2019 02:26:39 pm

Kent,
My question still stands. It's not that they couldn't or wouldn't conjure such a bizarre scheme, but to what purpose? What's their end game? How would it profit them?
No matter how crazy some of the CIA scenarios in the 60's were, there was a certain method to their madness - ridiculous as it seems in retrospect - there was a definite goal in mind.

Kent
12/21/2019 03:11:51 pm

Why would anyone dose their coworkers in the Technical Services Division with LSD during office hours? To see what happens. Remember these are the folks who wanted to make Castro's beard fall out.

"Nescio" is not a strong argument.

Vallee
12/22/2019 08:40:24 am

Two of them in stereo
Is Vallee anti-Semitic

Vallee
12/22/2019 08:48:27 am

There are posters on this Blog far worse than Vallee because of their anti-Semitism. Both Machala and Kent are anti-Semitic.















Luis Cayetano
9/3/2021 06:17:31 am

"Why? The whole thing is too ridiculous" There are in fact plausible reasons for why they might do such a thing (I'm not saying that they did, and Vallee's refusal to finally supply the purported documents points to them either not existing or that they show something far removed from what he says they show) but there are precedents for the use of supernatural beliefs, and even belief in UFOs, in psychological operations. Possible reasons to do it:

-- as cover for psychological experiments to discredit of victims of state-sanctioned abuse who were being experimented on or interrogated for reasons having nothing to do with aliens. The "alien abductions" might have been staged within the context of a larger counter-intelligence or counter-insurgency operation aimed at nabbing left-wing opponents of a US backed-regime
-- to gauge the range of beliefs that can be implanted in such experiments
-- to see whether a different cultural setting would yield similar results against similar experiments done elsewhere
-- to see how easy it would be for Soviet intelligence agencies to spread a UFO/alien craze in the context of the Cold War; there were fears within US intelligence circles that the Soviets might engineer a fake UFO flap in the US to clog up American reporting channels and facilitate a sneak attack on the US. It would therefore be pertinent to do a test run to see how easy it would be to stage a flap
-- as a distraction from political topics that the local regime wanted attention diverted away from
-- as an epidemiological study of how beliefs spread after imputation of initial and seemingly compelling reports
-- a combination of the above

Reply
Doc Rock
12/21/2019 12:29:00 pm

I don't think it is unheard of for people to donate materials to a university with the agreement that they won't be made available for a certain period of time. However, if it is a public university I THINK that some sort of public disclosure would be made since some funds for long term storage and curation of the materials would be involved.

Reply
Machala
12/21/2019 01:11:37 pm

I agree wholeheartedly. My point was that IF the evidence did exist and IF Valée actually did donate this stuff to a university, WHY won't he name the university?

Reply
Kent
12/22/2019 12:36:54 am

You raise a good point but unless there's a specific G/L account for the collection or its care and feeding have been charged individually to a specific funds center or cost center, the chances of a paper trail are pretty iffy.

"Yeah that's with all the other donations in the climate controlled storeroom."

You want the guy with the Library Science degree and not the accountant. Step one of course would be to find the university. I'd start with UNLV.

Reply
Doc Rock
12/22/2019 11:27:43 am

These people tend to be attention whores so I could also imagine him wanting an announcement of the donation on the front page of the library newsletter or the university news website. That often happens with any large collection.But then why refuse to name the institution?

Or, such people sometimes conflate Universities with any kind of college. His idea of a collection stored at a university could just as easily consist of a shoebox of papers stuck up on a shelf in the broom closet of the Scranton Community College library and which the staff forgot a month after it arrived.

If it did happen it could be tracked down unless the institution that received the donation accepted it on condition of not even revealing its existence until the embargo is over. But that is getting into a bit too much cloak and dagger for librarians

gdave
12/21/2019 01:15:52 pm

"...the only way he would be obliged to protect it is if the document were classified and he received if via an illegal leak, in which case he should not be providing illegal documents to a university."

If it's a U.S. government document, even if it were classified and he received it through an illegal leak, Jacques Vallee would be under no obligation to protect it, and would be legally free to publish it. Private citizens are not bound in any way by laws and regulations on classified materials. Only individuals with security clearances who have signed Non-Disclosure Agreements are bound by those laws and regulations.

If Vallee induced, enticed, or aided and abetted the leaker, he could face criminal charges, but that's true whether he publicly reveals the material or donates it to a university under a 10-year embargo or just holds on to it for his personal enjoyment.

Reply
Kent
12/21/2019 01:44:26 pm

Your second paragraph seems a little hinky to me. I suspect it's not correct.

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
12/21/2019 06:12:00 pm

18 USC 798 subdivision a

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/798

It's difficult to read that and think it doesn't apply to private citizens. Granted private citizens would be less likely to "knowingly" leak information but if they did know it? Based on the language of the statute they're just as in trouble.

None of this matters of course as it's pretty unlikely this fellow has anything. If he does it's likely he's interpreting it the wrong way.

Let's face it: With a lot of these Fringe types, when they're right it's usually on a very narrow issue and/or by complete coincidence. Sometimes the spaghetti sauce sticks to stuff but that doesn't make it glue.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Reply
Kent
12/21/2019 06:38:48 pm

Now I'm hungry for spaghetti.

Vallee
12/22/2019 08:43:59 am

Like you hate Matzah Ball Soup

Leif
12/21/2019 07:16:28 pm

It doesn’t look like Vallée attached much importance to the document he mentions– either in the 1990s when he wrote the diary entry, or today when he emailed Jack Brewer.

Vallée’s first quote:
“I have secured a document confirming that the CIA simulated UFO abductions in Latin America (Brazil and Argentina) as psychological warfare experiments.”

‘Secured’ indicates he had a copy of the document in his possession. ‘Confirming’ indicates he heard the information elsewhere and the document meets a reasonable standard of evidence. But if Vallée thought the document significant, why would he not record it in a way that could help him find it later? (A grad student learns to do this fairly quickly.)

Later, Vallée emailed:
“Most of the documents I have referred to, or used in the compilation of my diaries, have been donated to a University with a 10-year embargo on access.”

Very strange that a researcher would lock himself out of own files.
The phrase ‘most of’ indicates that Vallée is not entirely sure
what the document is or whether he even saved it.

If Vallée didn’t take this seriously– then or now, why should we?

Reply
Kent
12/22/2019 01:59:17 am

"It doesn’t look like Vallée attached much importance to the document he mentions– either in the 1990s when he wrote the diary entry, or today when he emailed Jack Brewer."

"A few months ago, Jacques Vallée, the longtime UFO researcher and scientific advisor to space-demon-hunting billionaire Robert Bigelow, published the fourth volume of his diaries, Forbidden Science, covering the 1990s."

It's cute that you think he wrote the 1990s diaries in the 1990s and not a few months ago.

Reply
Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 04:48:36 pm

"It's cute that you think he wrote the 1990s diaries in the 1990s and not a few months ago".

And you have proof to the contrary ? after all, you are the one that demands that every statement (even if it's a personal note in a dairy) should be corroborated by evidence, OK, so...where is your evidence that Vallée wrote his diaries, not in the 90s but very recently?

And I mean evidence, not an opinion.

Kent
12/25/2019 06:38:18 pm

My opinion is just as valid as your opinion, and opinion is all you have. What I'm saying is "Your opinion is invalid, stupid, and based on nothing."

" you are the one that demands that every statement (even if it's a personal note in a dairy) should be corroborated by evidence"

You really are stupid, aren't you? All I say is that a claim of evidence needs to be corroborated by producing that evidence, and “I have secured a document confirming that the CIA simulated UFO abductions in Latin America (Brazil and Argentina) as psychological warfare experiments” is a CLAIM OF EVIDENCE. You know, the stuff that CONFIRMS stuff? You may want to get someone to explain that to you, being stupid and all....

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 07:53:32 pm

So you want to hold him accountable for some personal note that he wrote to himself back in the 90s...and you call me an idiot, really?

And I have yet to see any proof that he forged his diaries. so please, if you mind, show me the evidence or get lost.

Kent
12/25/2019 08:05:31 pm

Tell me, you extremely stupid idiot:

How can someone forge their own diaries? Where did I say that Vallee forged his own diaries? I'll wait. Forever.

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 08:49:57 pm

If someone writes a "personal diary" in 2019 but as if it was written back in the 90s, and then publishes it claiming it was written in the 90s, then yes, it can be considered as forging a diary.

Kent
12/25/2019 09:38:24 pm

I never said that's what happened you extremely stupid idiot. What is wrong with you?

I'm 90 years old so I deserve more deference than you claim for Vallee without actually calling him a pederast.

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me? Milk my 90 year old nipples!

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 09:57:26 pm

"I never said that's what happened...", But you did strongly imply this is the case :

"It's cute that you think he wrote the 1990s diaries in the 1990s and not a few months ago".

And at this point, it does not that matter, as I said, what you did, according to laws in my country was sexual harassment :

"If you're embarrassed about your desire to milk me you can contact me privately"

Not to mention your personal attack which you started, so...if you don't have anything smart to add (which I am sure you don't) I am ending this conversation because, at this point, it is obvious you just a troll who embarrassed himself.

Kent
12/27/2019 02:54:49 pm

"And at this point, it does not that matter, as I said, what you did, according to laws in my country was sexual harassment :

"If you're embarrassed about your desire to milk me you can contact me privately""

The relevant statute: "It shall be unlawful and punishable by fine or imprisonment or both for:
a person to suggest to another person that the second person may contact the first person, or
a person to suggest that another person is embarrassed, or
a person to suggest that another person wants to milk the first person."

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/27/2019 04:09:11 pm

One of the paragraphs of sexual harassment :

Disgraceful and degrading statements of a sexual nature are statements that contain disgraceful or degrading treatment addressed to a person in relation to their sex or sexuality, including their sexual orientation. These are statements by which, by objective standards, they humiliate and despise or violate dignity, even if the disgraceful expression did not specifically target the harassed.

In my country, you would have been considered a sexual pervert...do you being considered a sexual pervert in your country too?

Kent
12/27/2019 04:43:44 pm

Is it customary in your country that the person milking the cow has sex with the cow? Interesting.

In THIS country, one person is allowed to ask another person if he can milk the first person.

It's interesting how you've made this all about you and your sex genocide fantasies rather than Vallee's lies. You're a shanda for the goyim.

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/27/2019 05:36:25 pm

"If you're embarrassed about your desire to milk me you can contact me privately"

And is it costume in your country to refer to YOURSELF as if you were a cow? or are you applying that I am from a land where people have sex with the animals? (well, it obvious at this point that you are a racist, but do you also see yourself as a cow ?).

"In THIS country, one person is allowed to ask another person if he can milk the first person"
And according to the urban dictionary, it has a sexual meaning which makes you in my country a sexual pervert :

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Milk%20Me

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/27/2019 05:40:50 pm

Do you being considered a sexual pervert in your country too?

Kent
12/27/2019 05:54:45 pm

I'm sorry you're a murder loving homophobe who thinks about having sex with cows, but I'm not in YOUR COUNTRY because the laws there suck.

I came here to talk about Vallee's lies and you want to talk about cow sex and killing Israelis.

We're still left with your desire to see Gentile babies die in nuclear fire. That is both distasteful and disturbing.

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/27/2019 06:29:12 pm

The problem with the sentence :
"If you're embarrassed about your desire to milk me you can contact me privately"
It's not that it can be said between gay people (that's fine). it's about the way you used it against me, in a condescending and humiliating way. this is what would have made you into a sexual pervert (not because of gay sexuality).

"I came here to talk about Vallee's lies"
Which we did, but then you started to insult me, expressing the wish that my country, which you thought was Israel should be :
"overrun by Muslim savages then vaporized by a horrific nuclear mistake".
The only one that expressed the desire to see people die in a nuclear attack on this form was you.

The only thing I don't understand is you addressing yourself as a cow. weird.

Kent
12/27/2019 07:20:42 pm

It's not possible to talk to you in a way that is not condescending and humiliating because you are an idiot and a waste product completely focused on gay sex and sex with cows.

When did I mention Israel? That's a fantasy in your self-hating anti-Semitic mind. Why do you want to burn Gentile babies in nuclear fire?

I came here to talk about Vallee's lies but you seem to want to only talk about gay sex, cow sex, genocide and infanticide by fire. What is wrong with you?

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Bezalel
12/27/2019 11:16:31 pm

Scalia Joseph Kent
This is painful.
You continue to expose yourself as an octogenarian imbecile, masking your utter ignorance with pretentious anachronistic bullshit minutiae. You haven't stopped blogging your puke for years.

Just because your education stopped dead decades ago doesn't mean you need to ignore progress and stop learning. You should have kept learning. Why have you refused to learn more than what your pathetic head could hold together in 1955? Stop maneuvering through conversations with pathetic attempts at ironic absurdity and constantly calling attention to 8th grade semantic games.
Improve yourself you misogynistic racist pig fucking idiot.
Your comments aren't fit for garbage.

Why do you allow shit to seep from your dick holster? When will you stop?
Watch south park
You are Carman
Go suck on a tailpipe and then milk my tits while you're at it

Jr. Time Lord
12/21/2019 09:45:41 pm

"I don’t have any further comments on the substance of the request or, obviously, about my source which I am obligated to protect. […] Most of the documents I have referred to, or used in the compilation of my diaries, have been donated to a University with a 10-year embargo on access — specifically to avoid the kind of spurious quarrels that erupt in ufology on a regular basis. So I expect that historical details like these will see the light of day in due course."


Take out the ufology reference and it's indistinguishable from a Muir response to a Sinclair diary question.

Reply
Kent
12/22/2019 01:31:38 am

I missed the part where Vallee said he destroyed the originals you idiot.

Reply
Vallee
12/22/2019 08:41:21 am

You anti-Semitic idiot

Kent
12/22/2019 01:51:08 pm

You're in the wrong department. Please see Mr. Scales for fulfillment of your stalking needs.

Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 06:22:52 am

Even though I say so myself, I think my latest article explains the Vallee/CIA/simulated alien abductions story that is going around:

https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2019/12/simulated-alien-abductions-the-cia-a-hot-hooker-and-secret-experiments/

Reply
Jim
12/23/2019 09:59:03 am

So, in a nutshell, (pun intended) you think the CIA was flying around South America in the 50s using helicopters to spray LSD or some such drug on unsuspecting victims then dragging them into the chopper and paying a hooker to have sex with them ?

Sounds legit,,,,,,if you are clinically insane.

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Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 10:21:35 am

In a nutshell, this is the story that Bosco Nedelcovic told to Rich Reynolds in the late 1970s.

And we know that the very first person who Rich shared the info with (decades ago, I should stress) was Jacques Vallee.

So, I think that Vallee's document that is being discussed here and at Jack Brewer's UFO Trail blog, could very well be the report that Rich mailed to Vallee all those years ago, and NOT a CIA document..

That puts things in a very different perspective.

Got it?

PS: And go back and look at how Villas Boas described the "UFO." It was clearly a helicopter.

Kent
12/23/2019 10:47:05 am

It's well documented that the CIA had buildings in San Francisco and New York dedicated to similar experiments. Jim.

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP88-01315R000200070024-3.pdf

Jim
12/23/2019 10:50:40 am

Nick Redfern,,,

"Put all those factors together and it sounds very much like Villas Boas was hauled aboard a helicopter. And not onto a flying saucer."

Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant%C3%B4nio_Villas_Boas

"Once inside the craft,,,,,,,,,, He was then led into a large semicircular room, through a doorway ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, After this he was then taken to a third room

"Boas said that he was then given back his clothing and taken on a tour of the ship by the humanoids."

Sounds exactly like a fifties chopper to me,,,,, NOT !



Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 11:20:35 am

Something like this (a fifties helicopter) could do the job: It's certainly big enough.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:H-37B_Mojave_US_Army_in_flight_(cropped).jpg


Place Villas Boas in a state of confusion from the chemical aerosol that was sprayed on him from the helicopter above, and have a carefully mocked-up interior and the incident could be easily be achieved.

But, we really should focus on the primary issue in this blog-post. Namely, is the document that Vallee has in his possession a CIA document? Or, is it just the typed report that Rich Reynolds mailed to Vallee?

If it's the first scenario then it's big, big news.

If, however, what Vallee has is the Reynolds report, then it all comes back to Nedelcovic's claims and absolutely no-one else.

Remember, Vallee was the VERY FIRST person (in the 1970s) to get Rich's report on what Nedelcovic told Rich.

Reply
Jim
12/23/2019 11:57:43 am

"Something like this (a fifties helicopter) could do the job: It's certainly big enough."

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:H-37B_Mojave_US_Army_in_flight_(cropped).jpg

Well that certainly fits Boas description of being " a roughly circular or egg-shaped aerial craft",,,,,, NOT

By the by,, how did they manage to remotely shut off his tractor ?
Or was it a multi purpose pink microdot acid aerosol that also turned off tractors and turned on men ?

Reply
Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 12:03:13 pm

He said it looked like an elongated egg with something spinning around very fast on top of it, and making a beating noise as it took off. It's a helicopter.

Maybe he stalled the tractor in his panic. Remember, he was in a groggy, altered state.

Jim
12/23/2019 12:36:30 pm

"It's a helicopter."

OK then,,,because you were there ?
I take it you assume Boas was unfamiliar with helicopters because,,,,well,,,,,of course he was.

"Remember, he was in a groggy, altered state"

No, I don't remember, because I wasn't there.
Did Boas say he was high or groggy ?
Or have you or others simply made this up to fit your theory ?

Wiki:

"Once inside the craft, Boas said that he was stripped of his clothes and covered from head-to-toe with a strange gel."

" After this he was then taken to a third room and left alone for around half an hour. During this time, some kind of gas was pumped into the room, which made Boas become violently ill."

Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 01:09:21 pm

I say it's a helicopter because of his description: elongated egg, a beat-beat-beat as it took off. The top was, and I quote, "revolving at great speed." That's why it's a helicopter!

Yes, the document says "groggy" after hit by a "chemical derivative" and that the crew "laid him next to" his tractor after the incident.

Reply
Jim
12/23/2019 01:36:40 pm

"Yes, the document says "groggy" after hit by a "chemical derivative" and that the crew "laid him next to" his tractor after the incident. "

https://www.conspiracyarchive.com/UFOs/boas-abduction.htm

" The tour finally over, one of the figures gestured him down the ladder,,,,,,,,,,,, Boas was signaled to step back, and the ladder retracted, the ship rose,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The buzz formed by the dislocation of air grew louder, and the revolving saucer began to rotate at a terrific speed, while the light turned to many shades of color, finally settling on a bright red. As this happened the machine abruptly changed direction by turning unexpectantly and producing a larger noise, a kind of 'shock' ... When this was over, the strange airship darted of suddenly like a bullet southward, holding itself slightly askew, at such a heady speed that it disappeared from sight in a few seconds."

Ya nah,,,, sounds like you are taking a little poetic license here to cherry pick your way to a helicopter.

Reply
Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 01:53:34 pm

No, I'm not cherry picking.

Look: here, below, are Villas Boas' OWN words (not the words of someone who wrote about the story in the 21st century).

He said of the craft (and these are his direct quotes): "On the upper part of the machine there was something that was revolving at great speed and also giving off a powerful fluorescent reddish light."

Note that Villas Boas didn't say the craft was spinning. He said the "upper part of the machine" was "revolving."

He was talking about the rotors.

Those quotes are from "The Humanoids," a book that was published in 1969. Interestingly, Jacques Vallee was one of the editors on the book.

Jim
12/23/2019 02:19:17 pm

"Look: here, below, are Villas Boas' OWN words"

"Those quotes are from "The Humanoids," a book that was published in 1969. Interestingly, Jacques Vallee was one of the editors on the book."

So, His own words,,,, as told by Jacques Vallee, gimme a break.

" Jacques Vallee was one of the editors on the book."

An editor ? Not so much, a contributor to a collection of stories is much more accurate.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=HrHYuQEACAAJ&dq=The+Humanoids,&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjyrsuGu8zmAhVMK80KHZj9BJIQ6AEIVjAG

" The contributors to Bowen's book The Humanoids include Aimee Michel, Jacques Vallee, Gordon Creighton, Coral Lorenzen, Antonio Ribera, and Charles Bowen, all important Ufologists of the time."

Not buying what Jacques Vallee is selling any more than what you are peddling.

Either produce actual transcripts from his earliest interviews or go home.

Jim
12/23/2019 02:30:37 pm

P.S.

"Look: here, below, are Villas Boas' OWN words"

So he spoke in English ? ,,,,,BS

Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 03:13:01 pm

Of course, it wasn't in English. Jeeeez. He lived in Brazil!! It was translated into English. And Villas Boas was shown it for accuracy for publication. Did you really need telling that it had to be translated?!

The fact is, no aliens abducted Villas Boas. None. Ever. He was taken on-board a helicopter. If the truth surfaces I'll bet this will have been an outgrowth of the MK projects.

It's important to note though, that there are 2 potential documents here in this growing controversy.

One is the document that Vallee says he has. The other one is the Rich Reynolds paper that Rich put together in the 70s from Nedecovic's claims. But...they are near-identical in content: both are about South American, 1950s-era fabricated/simulated abductions.

There's nothing new about all this, though, I should stress. I wrote about the Nedelcovic-simulated abductions-helicopter story in my "Contactees" book of 2009.

The only 2 potentially exciting new info left to address are (A) if there is an actual CIA document and (B) if Jack Brewer gets something thru FOIA on Nedelcovic. But I doubt we'll see such a thing. Rich, though, has been talking about this for years and he still has all of his correspondence with Nedelcovic.

Jim
12/23/2019 03:35:55 pm

"Of course, it wasn't in English. Jeeeez. He lived in Brazil!! It was translated into English. And Villas Boas was shown it for accuracy for publication. Did you really need telling that it had to be translated?!"

Look man, you were the one that said " Villas Boas' OWN words".

"The fact is, no aliens abducted Villas Boas. None. Ever. He was taken on-board a helicopter."

Yes no aliens abducted Boas. Also you have no evidence whatsoever that he was abducted by the CIA in a helicopter.
It's complete nonsense.
For Christ's sake Nick in the book you use for evidence "The Humanoids" there is a drawing by Boas of the supposed craft that looks nothing at all like a helicopter !!
It looks very much like the Fisher Price toy flying saucer the "Space Blazer"

As seen on slide 18 of 48 here:

http://www.cufos.org/UFO_History_Gross/1957_10-11-2nd_HistorySN.pdf

Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 01:18:31 pm

The Villas Boas was not a UFO event. It was a total set-up. No aliens at all. Also, Jack Brewer noted this morning that over the weekend he has filed FOIA requests with a handful of agencies for info on Nedelcovic. Maybe this will open some doors, but I'm not holding my breath.

Reply
Paul
12/23/2019 02:13:09 pm

No doubt JV is an intelligent individual.
No doubt that some of the beliefs that JV operates under would be considered delusional at best.
What we know about ufo's can likely be summarized in a paragraph or so.
What we don't know about ufo's fills volumes rife with speculation and delusional thinking.
So, if JV donated materials to somewhere, where are the receipts and the order he describes? Why would a verifiable receipt and order be considered classified? Without that, just another exercise in hoaxing.

Reply
Kent
12/23/2019 02:16:18 pm

Vallee writes: “I have secured a document confirming that the CIA simulated UFO abductions in Latin America (Brazil and Argentina) as psychological warfare experiments.”

Because he references this document his book itself is also "a document confirming that the CIA simulated UFO abductions in Latin America (Brazil and Argentina) as psychological warfare experiments.”

Whether the referenced document exists and does what he says it does are open questions. Whether his book is truthful and accurate is an open question.

Reply
Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 02:51:15 pm

As I said in my article (link below), the "document" is either (A) a legit CIA doc, or (B) it's just the report that UFO researcher Rich Reynolds put together in the 1970s, based on the revelations of Bosco Nedelcovic, which Nedelcovic shared with Rich. It's a pity we can't get clarification on this above-point from Vallee what the document is.

That Vallee was the very first person to get a typed copy of Rich's report on what Nedelcovic told Rich (specifically in relation to "simulated abductions") makes me think the report is not a CIA document.

If it surfaces, I think it will be shown to be connected to Nedelcovic and his revelations somehow. I'll be very, VERY surprised if it turns out to be a CIA document.

https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2019/12/simulated-alien-abductions-the-cia-a-hot-hooker-and-secret-experiments/

Reply
Kent
12/23/2019 03:14:02 pm

Or (C) It's completely made up. The putative document that is.

Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 03:30:01 pm

But why bother hoaxing such a thing? A hoaxer could instead cite the Nedelcovic papers, which are real.

Now, whether the Nedelcovic papers actually tell a real story - or tell a bogus story created to deceive Rich Reynolds - the fact is that Rich got all the info down that he was told.

Rich carefully put together all of Nedelcovic's claims about South America, helicopters, 1950s, abductions, mind-bending technology etc.in a report in February 1978..

Don't rely on me. Ask Rich. He's still extremely active in Ufology.

Reply
Kent
12/23/2019 04:52:36 pm

"But why bother hoaxing such a thing?"

1. Because you can
2. To see what happens
3. Fun
4. Some other reason

Note that in my (C) above, the only hoax is the existence of the "document".

Remember what George Costanza's ATM PIN was? "Bosco".

Reply
Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 03:47:41 pm

Jim

You can say what you want and I'll do the same, and we can debate this forever. But, unless we get to see this document - which is really at the heart of it all - this debate will continue until who knows when and with little chance of any advancing.

But, like I said in an earlier comment, check in with Rich Reynolds. Rich was given (in 1978) almost identical info that Vallee is talking about today with CIA helicopters in South America and faked ET abductions.

Rich and Vallee may be the 2 who can provide the answers. I certainly can't. I can provide theories and opinions on what the two have said. But it's going to take more than that to get an answer.

Reply
Jim
12/23/2019 03:55:25 pm

Fair enough, if you will stop with the; "It was a helicopter ! " etc.

If you don't know, don't make definitive statements.

Reply
Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 04:07:25 pm

I can't stop saying that, because I DO think it was a helicopter. But, there's not a chance of getting answers by just doing a back-and-forth here. So, I'll have words with Rich and see if that can open anything else up. He really is the guy to speak to. Or Vallee if he would only expand on that CIA angle.

Reply
Jim
12/23/2019 04:54:57 pm

Apparently you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion.
That explains a lot.

I suppose that means that Villas Boas was indeed abducted by aliens because that is the opinion of some people, making it a fact.

Get a grip.
Opinions are opinions, facts are facts.

Reply
Mr opinion
12/24/2019 05:53:48 am

"Apparently you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion".

The only thing that apparent her is that you think your opinion is a fact, compared to everyone else opinions. It isn't.

Pipi
12/25/2019 12:45:13 pm

.... and my opinion is that you are an idiot.

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 07:07:20 pm

Well PIPI, you know what you can do with your opinion....

Pipi
12/25/2019 07:26:08 pm

Oh, I was replying to Jim, FWIW. Lol

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 07:32:23 pm

Sorry, my bad.

Pipi
12/25/2019 07:38:16 pm

Nw, realized it wasn't clear, and Jim should know what I think of him ;)

Nick Redfern
12/23/2019 04:31:31 pm

My last words on all this (unless something significant surfaces) are that, as of today, Jack Brewer is saying he now thinks the Vallee document thing is all connected with the Bosco Nedelcovic claims.

Reply
Dimitry Tsukerman
12/23/2019 05:14:30 pm

Jacques Vallée is 80years old. You are attacking an 80-year-old guy really?

Reply
Jim
12/23/2019 05:37:40 pm

Black Jacques Vallée got off easy, he's lucky the CIA didn't install him in Guantanamo Bay.

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Benajmin Button
12/24/2019 02:26:30 pm

Why should age make someone immune to criticism? Unless the guy is demonstrably senile or exhibiting some other type of mental disability he is just as subject to being called out for bullshit as a 30 year old.

Reply
Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 02:02:25 am

I didn't mean that he should be immune to criticism, but you should take into account that the person is not in his...prime on his intellectual abilities, which means you should be objective and fair (not manipulative and sneaky), and in this case, it is exactly the opposite what Jason did (see my comments below for explanation).

Benjamin Button
12/25/2019 10:45:06 am

So the older someone gets the more fair and objective we should be with them as opppsed to less fairness and objectivity with younger fringe authors? People discussed here tend to have long established track records for BS and it doesn't improve with age. Pleading age instead of trying to defend their work on its merits is a copout.

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 04:37:13 pm

You always should be fair and objective, regardless of age, but, presenting data in a manipulative way to attack 80 years old it is somewhat distasteful, to say the least. and I did reference my "defence" regarding THIS TOPIC.

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/24/2019 06:26:22 am

Hold on a second...you, Jason Colavito, criticizing Jacques Vallée for not providing the document that he is talking about in his book Forbidden Science......BUT, this book is actually his private diary now published, it is his personal notes which he wrote to himself during the 90, it is not like he made an official statement about it, which, by itself indicated that there was a problem with this document, maybe regarding its sources, who knows,

The fact that he didn't despite the longtime promotion of the idea that some of the UFOs incidents could be deceptions made by the government tells you a lot. At the end of the day, it is his private diaries so he under no obligation to reproduce anything regarding his privet notes. You should now it, and maybe you do but decided to attack him anyway, and I just wonder why?

Reply
Kent
12/24/2019 01:06:59 pm

If he said in his diary he had a cure for cancer would you ask for proof or just give him the Nobel Prize?

"It's in his private diaries that we know for sure he wrote in the 1990s" smacks of "a mixture of arrogance, incuriosity, and buck-passing in place of actual proof."

Reply
Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 01:39:31 am

I would ask for proof only if he made an official statement about it. Jacques Vallee wrote two books on the possibility that some UFOs incidents may be a mind-controlled experiment: "Messengers of Deception" and "REVELATIONS: Alien Contact and Human Deception", none of them references this document, this by itself tells you that there was a good reason for Vallee not mention it.

And yet you and Jason still think that Vallee owes you some proof...no he doesn't.

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 01:41:36 am

"And yet you and Jason still think that Vallee owes you some proof...no he doesn't". Regarding this document I mean.

Kent
12/25/2019 12:30:26 pm

How is “I have secured a document confirming that the CIA simulated UFO abductions in Latin America (Brazil and Argentina) as psychological warfare experiments” in a book he published NOT an "official statement"?

Are you an idiot Focker?

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 03:52:57 pm

Well, asshole, when this statement is written in a diary as a PERSONAL note, wasn't referenced by him in his books or his speeches, and even if the diary is published later (as his dairy), this statement is still considered to be a private note, not an official statement.

In the first volume of Forbidden Knowledge, Jacques Vallee describes having sex with his girlfriend (who later became his wife), according to you, Kent, because this is made public, you now have the right to go and demand proof...and maybe this is what you should do, Kent, go and wright to Vallee demanding him to provide you with hard evidence that he did have sex with his future wife on the day he wrote he did... don't forget to tell us how it went.

Kent
12/25/2019 04:29:02 pm

Ah! True colors. How do they feel about your use of profanity at the university?

"when this statement is written in a diary as a PERSONAL note, wasn't referenced by him in his books or his speeches, and even if the diary is published later (as his dairy), this statement is still considered to be a private note, not an official statement."

When it's IN A BOOK HE PUBLISHED it ceases to be "a private note" you idiot. Do you understand what "referenced by him in his books or his speeches" means? IT WAS LITERALLY REFERENCED BY HIM IN ONE OF HIS BOOKS and probably in his speeches, but certainly in email correspondence with Brewer.

I don't understand your fascination with Vallee's sex life so I won't address your rather strange scenario. Do you understand the difference between:

"I had sex with the Virgin Mary" and
"I have a document confirming I had sex with the Virgin Mary"?

Do you understand that you idiot?

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 06:20:12 pm

“How do they feel about your use of profanity at the university?”
And how about yours: “when a statement is written in a diary, even if it is just a personal note, and even if you never referenced it before, nor didn't intend to, or decided not to for some reason, but the diary did get published, you must provide evidence to this statement to Mr. Kent, or else...”.
You know what...yours is much better.

"When it's IN A BOOK HE PUBLISHED..." but which book is it? is it a fantasy, a sci-fi, a romance? academic research perhaps? or maybe a personal diary.... you did know that you can publish a diary in a book form? (shocking, I know). And in this diary, he made a reference to HIMSELF, because this what usually people do, Kent, people have diaries so that they can make personal notes...you know what a "personal notes" means, do you Kent?

"Do you understand what "referenced by him in his books or his speeches" means?"
Yes, and do you understand what "this book is actually his private diary now published" means? (Besides you are a moron).

“IT WAS LITERALLY REFERENCED BY HIM IN ONE OF HIS BOOKS and probably in his speeches, but certainly in email correspondence with Brewer”.
So, show me one of these references made, besides his personal diaries of course. And he's corresponding with Brewer...well, he completely avoided the issue, didn't he?

"I don't understand your fascination with Vallee's sex life..."
My only fascination is with your stupidity, Kent. But you still should verify his sex life details, as someone who asks strangers to "milk" him, it will be very suitable for your "profile".

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 06:32:01 pm

Yes, and do you understand what "this book is actually his private diary now published" means? (Besides you are a moron*).

*Little correction: Besides you being a moron.

And: "it will be very suitable for** your "profile".

** to your "profile”.

My mistakes ; )

Kent
12/25/2019 06:49:12 pm

You're making Anthony Warren and E.P. Grondine look sane and smart.

It's a Christmas miracle!

(If you're embarrassed about your desire to milk me you can contact me privately.)

I have had the fortunate opportunity to work closely with many of these students as an assistant in this program for the past two years. After witnessing the students’ hard work and progress, seeing their graduate school acceptance letters rolling in has been among the most fulfilling experiences at UCI.

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 07:00:22 pm

Kent please...how the hell do you know what a smart person looks like?

And before commenting again, at least come up with some counter-arguments...Dickhead.

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 07:03:36 pm

Dickhead :

1. A person who is an idiot and shows it all too well
2. Person with a penis on their head.

Kent
12/25/2019 07:34:13 pm

Keep posting. Keep making yourself look bad. Keep using bad language. Keep putting your stupidity in a venue you can't control, where you can't erase it.

[email protected]

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 08:20:47 pm

If someone starts calling me names, sexually harassing me...and I respond accordingly...why should I bee concern that it's public and available?

"If you're embarrassed about your desire to milk me you can contact me privately"
In my country, this is called sexual harassment.

"Are you an idiot Focker?"
And this in my country (And I'm sure in your country too) is called insulting someone just because he has a different opinion.

So...calling you "Dickhead" after this is not embarrassing, but behaving like this...it is.

Lent
12/25/2019 09:48:35 pm

As Fiddler said to Kunta Kinte in Roots "You in America now bwoy!"

I don't care in the least about "in my country". In fact, may your country be overrun by Muslim savages then vaporized by a horrific nuclear mistake. Oops. Failing that you might be able to build a career here based on bottomless stupidity. It's been done before.

You may be the stupidest person I've encountered here, and that's saying something.

K/L/ent
12/25/2019 09:54:12 pm

So, are you saying you WOULD like to milk me? If you want to do the dance of bringing a lawsuit first, that's kind of a turn-on. For you I guess, it doesn't do anything for me. I just want to be milked.

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 10:11:19 pm

As Fiddler said to Kunta Kinte in Roots "You in America now bwoy!"

Not exactly...because people who come here, are coming here from all over the world...but...if you talking of being American, then calling a prick like you a Dickhead is, in my opinion, the most American thing to do.

But like I said if you don't have anything smart to add (which I am sure you don't) I am ending this conversation because, at this point, it is obvious you just a troll who embarrassed himself.

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 10:38:45 pm

Before I go I do have two questions which I am sure you will be glad to answer :
1. "In fact, may your country be overrun by Muslim savages then vaporized by a horrific nuclear mistake"
why the Islamophobia Kent? how does this have any connection to my "country"?
2. "...you might be able to build a career here"
Why do you assume I want to build my career in the US?

Kent
12/25/2019 11:21:23 pm

"But like I said if you don't have anything smart to add (which I am sure you don't) I am ending this conversation because, at this point, it is obvious you just a troll who embarrassed himself.
______________________________________________
DIMITRY TSUKERMAN
12/25/2019 10:38:45 pm [...]"

That is probably a record for this site and maybe for the internet in general. Less than 18 minutes.

"may your country be overrun by Muslim savages then vaporized by a horrific nuclear mistake""

So the "Muslim savages" part bothers you more than the "horrific nuclear mistake" part?

Would "Jewish savages" or "Christian savages" make you feel better about your country being liquified? I want to work with you here, would you prefer "homosexual savages" or "Negro savages"?

I wrote this:
"Failing that you might be able to build a career here based on bottomless stupidity. It's been done before."

and you wrote:
"Why do you assume I want to build my career in the US?"

I didn't assume, just thought bottomless stupidity is kind of your scene.

You may be the stupidest person I've encountered here, and that's saying something.

I have nipples, Greg. Can you milk me?

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 11:35:53 pm

I just wanted to verify if you are a racist. I don't know what is "homosexual savages" or "Negro savages" are, but obviously you made a record her bay being racist and homophobic on record time, goodbye.

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/25/2019 11:38:39 pm

"you made a record her bay* being"

*by

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/26/2019 09:39:32 am

No, it's not another response to you, Kent (Lent, Klent whoever or whatever you are), because obviously we have nothing more to talk about, I just want that my final response to be accurately written, which is :

I just wanted to verify if you are indeed a racist. I don't know what "homosexual savages" or "Negro savages" are, but talking about "making a record", this is the first time I see someone exposes himself of being homophobic and racist in on comment.

Kent
12/26/2019 01:48:56 pm

Yet you're okay with "Jewish savages" and babies dying in nuclear fire. Interesting. So I'll put you down as a "Yes" on killing savage Jewish babies?

I'll give credit where credit is due though. You love to type even though you're not good at it.

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/26/2019 03:13:06 pm

Jewish myself. and no, we don't like racist pricks like you either. so f*** off.

Kent
12/26/2019 05:54:41 pm

So you're okay with babies dying in nuclear fire as long as they're not savage Jewish babies? Help me here, I'm trying to establish your position.

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/26/2019 11:51:37 pm

So you what you are saying is, that after you already been exposed be racist, homophobic, who starts personally to attack people and making sexually perversive comments just because he is not smart enough to admit he is wrong, after all this, and you still try to make ME look bad? well, good luck with that.

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/26/2019 11:55:21 pm

*have been exposed to be racist and homophobic

Kent
12/27/2019 01:11:20 am

So you're okay with babies dying in nuclear fire as long as they're not savage Jewish babies? Help me here, I'm trying to establish your position.

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/27/2019 12:13:51 pm

My position is that in the following statement you show that you are a racist dickhead :

"In fact, may your country be overrun by Muslim savages then vaporized by a horrific nuclear mistake"

So let me guess...because I have a Jewish family name, you assumed that I am from Israel and decided to wish for the second holocaust for the entire Jewish population. But the Muslim population didn't get a better treatment also, you called them savages, and wished that they also will be annihilated in a nuclear holocaust.

But why, why do you wish the death of millions of people? Because you think that one-off them (me) pointed out to you, how wrong it is to demand proof from someone just because he wrote something in his diary as a note to himself back in the 90s.

But you are the one who writes to me that :
"Keep posting. Keep making yourself look bad. Keep using bad language. Keep putting your stupidity in a venue you can't control, where you can't erase it".

Making my self look bad...for calling you a dickhead...I even not sure that at this point it is considered a "bad language", no, I really think that in your case it is just stating the facts.

"You may be the stupidest person I've encountered here, and that's saying something".

Nop, in your case it doesn't mean shit.

So...did you milk all your racism out of yourself...or you also want to kill all those "homosexual savages" and "Negro savages" you mentioned above? how many people need to die in order for you to feel good? to be happy?

If Jacques Vallée would provide the CIA document that he mentioned...would this make you stop wishing the death of millions of people, to stop hating people that are different from you, or have different opinions? Did you consider a medication treatment in case he won't?

Kent
12/27/2019 02:00:49 pm

It never occurred to me that you were Israeli. My guess would have been Ukrainian. If you were Israeli I would hate you because of your stupidity and nationality, not your religion. If Ukrainian, I would hate you because of your stupidity, not your nationality or your religion.

By the way in MY country, calling a surname "a Jewish family name" is considered anti-semitic. Please don't pollute my country with your self-hating anti-semitism.

"how many people need to die in order for you to feel good?"

The list fluctuates. I would guess under a hundred. You're not on the list even though you advocate that non-Jewish babies die in nuclear fire. You're unimportant,

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/27/2019 03:44:36 pm

"It never occurred to me that you were Israeli...."
And now we are supposed to take the word of a genocide promoter at face value? especially from someone who admits to hating Israeli nationality (which does have a conflict with Muslims), but not Ukrainian nationality (which doesn't have a conflict with Muslims)...it doesn't make any sense, or someone doesn't know how to lie.

"By the way in MY country, calling a surname "a Jewish family name" is considered anti-semitic..."

So promoting genocide of millions of Semitic people is OK, but me saying that my family name is Jewish is bad?
Are you sure it is in your country, and not in YOUR head?

"The list fluctuates. I would guess under a hundred..."
Nop. seems like a couple of millions :
"may your country be overrun by Muslim savages then vaporized by a horrific nuclear mistake".
Again, someone doesn't know how to lie.

"...even though you advocate that non-Jewish babies die in nuclear fire...".
Now you just projecting, AGAIN.

And I didn't say that I am from Israel, this is what you assumed, I am not from Ukraine either, a country which by the way, has a lot more than just two hundred people (you definitely don't know how to lie, do you ?).

"Every idiot can tell the truth, it takes a very smart person to tell a good lie".

And being very smart is not your strong side...

Kent
12/27/2019 04:04:18 pm

You're all kinds of wound up aren't you? You're all over the map. I think the world would be a better place if fewer than a hundred people were dead and and that means I want to genocide Ukraine? You really are an idiot.

So am I an islamophobe or a Jew-killer? I don't care about your religion or where you're from, I think you personally are a waste of oxygen, disagreeable, and should have been aborted. But we don't get everything we wish for.

We're still left with your desire to see Gentile babies die in nuclear fire. That is both distasteful and disturbing.

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Bezalel
12/27/2019 11:25:22 pm

Kent
Your brain is riddled with cobwebs. One can only hope your dick holster mouth is unable to speak what shit you type.
Do you have throat cancer?

Stay on point

Bezalel
12/27/2019 11:43:26 pm

By the way Zookerman.
Your appear to misunderstand basic science. One does not need to furnish proof of what constitutes the prevailing scientific viewpoint.

Example being one does not need to prove that the chumbucket Vallee forged or faked or concocted a document whose contents would represent extraordinary evidence.
Example 2 One is not required to prove that Ufos are NOT alien.
That's upside down science.
Burden of proof is on the extraordinary claim.
Get out of the intellectual backwater and get your science right or Kent is correct on this point.

Bezalel
12/28/2019 12:01:29 am

My boner is out of control and my mouth is the U.N.'s dick holster. Everyone come on ova my house! White men, black men, bodybuilders, stern but loving drill sergeants!

Dimitry Tsukerman
12/28/2019 05:25:02 am

Well, Mr. Bezaza or Pazuzu,
At least, not like the stupid Kent, you make some points, but you wrong, and here's why :

You absolutely correct by stating that "the Burden of proof is on the extraordinary claim", but this is not the issue here.
Like I explained, Jacques Vallee never before addressed this document when writing his books, his arguments, that some UFO events have been staged by intelligence agencies for as a mind-control experiment, ARE NOT based on this document.

Vallee never officially presented it, and when asked about it, he simply stated :
"I don’t have any further comments on the substance..."

The only reason we know about it, it is because his diaries got published recently, and in one of those personal entries it was stated that :

“I have secured a document confirming that the CIA simulated UFO abductions in Latin America (Brazil and Argentina) as psychological warfare experiments.”

I personally don't know if the document is even authentic, nor did I said this is was, my argument was this :

Because Vallee never presented it publicly, never reference it in his research books, and all of his arguments made in those books are not based on it (Directly by reference), then not Jason Colavito, nor the idiotic Kent, not me and you can go to Vallee and demand to see it on the basis that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

In this case, there is no obligation what so ever on Vallee to present this Document.

Kent
12/28/2019 01:26:49 pm

"his diaries got published recently"

Yes, his diaries sprouted legs, called an Uber, went downtown and met with a publisher. Like a Warner Brothers cartoon.

No, you abysmally stupid idiot. HE PUBLISHED THEM. The fourth volume in the series. And HE SAYS “I have secured a document confirming that the CIA simulated UFO abductions in Latin America (Brazil and Argentina) as psychological warfare experiments.”

The fact that he backpedalled and did a no comment when someone asked him about this extraordinary claim is irrelevant except insofar as it suggests he is a liar.

Tsukerman
12/28/2019 08:43:29 pm


It's obvious now that your main problem is the inability to handle a complex situation. Because of this, you resort to superficial logic :
someone asked him about this + did not comment = liar.

Where is the rest of the context ?

There are other options here, for example :

1. During the 90s he did receive the document, because he wasn't supposed to, he never addressed it, despite the fact that this document could proof his theories.

2. He is a complete fraud, he intentionally fabricated the diary entrance to give credit to his theories.

And I didn't even address the whole issue of whatever the document is real or not (because even if he did not fake it, it still does not mean that the document was not forged by others).

If this is the first option, then he is obviously a liar. If this is the second option, then he is not. No conclusive evidence were presented to establish what option is the real one.

The later reference in his diary (which was published very recently) doesn't really support his claims, because the document is not presented, therefore the possibility of lying on his part, although exist, isn't very strong.

So I decided, instead of dealing with speculation, to state the obvious :
When writing his books about the possibility that some UFO incidents could be psychological experiments, he never referenced this document. Then his theories should be judged on the basis of the data he DID presented. Until the document will become public, no definitive conclusion can be reached.

You want to consider him to be a liar...it is your choice.

nipples. nipples. nipples. nipples

kent
12/28/2019 09:26:07 pm

Based on your remarks and your mildly retarded attempt at analysis, I conclude that you are a racist idiot who wants to see Christian and Muslim babies die in nuclear fire and Vallee is a liar. If you weren't defending him I would think of him less harshly. But you taint him.

I have nipples Greg. Can you milk me?

Tsukerman
12/28/2019 09:42:13 pm

If only I had a dollar every time you blamed me for what YOU said...

"....But you taint him".

To a racist freak like you ? the catastrophe....


Go suck a nipple, it's from the 90s you love it.

Pipi
12/25/2019 12:46:52 pm

Huh?

Reply
Bob Jase
12/24/2019 02:32:04 pm

Vallee has been pumping thew same crap out since I was in grade school more than 50 years ago anfd he never produced any credible evidence for his claims.

The bullshit has gotten awfully deep.

Reply
MR OPINION
12/25/2019 01:48:18 am

Would you like me to show you how his BASIC claims are not only possible BUT were accepted as a likely probability on the government level ?

Reply
Bob Jase
12/25/2019 10:51:31 am

The same government that wasted millions on psychic research?

Yeah, I'm impressed.

Kent
12/25/2019 02:43:20 pm

The same government that came up with:
the Missile Gap
the assessment that the Soviets would not put offensive weapons in Cuba
the Gulf of Tonkin "incident"
the "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq

On the bright side that same government:
brought peace to Afghanistan
midwifed the renaissance of Libya
is now engaged in charitable work policing Syria

MR OPINION
12/25/2019 04:21:09 pm


"The same government that"...NOPE, not that government.

Their opinion is actually somewhat similar to what Philip J. Klass (famous debunker) once thought.

It is also going very well with the scientific research that was presented by the famous skeptic, Michael Shermer.

And, as I recently found out...is also supported by a number of scientists regarding the subject of...


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      • The Case of the False Quotes
      • Alternative Authors' Quote Fraud
      • David Childress & the Aliens
      • Faking Ancient Art in Uzbekistan
      • Intimations of Persecution
      • Zecharia Sitchin's World
      • Jesus' Alien Ancestors?
      • Extraterrestrial Evolution?
    • Collection: Skeptic Magazine >
      • America Before Review
      • Native American Discovery of Europe
      • Interview: Scott Sigler
      • Golden Fleeced
      • Oh the Horror
      • Discovery of America
      • Supernatural Television
      • Review of Civilization One
      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
      • Charioteer of the Gods
    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
      • The China Syndrome
      • Atlantis, Mu, and the Maya
      • Easter Island Exposed
      • Who Built the Sphinx?
      • Who Built the Great Pyramid?
      • Archaeological Cover Up?
    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
      • Pauwels, Bergier, and Lovecraft
      • Lovecraft in Bergier
      • Lovecraft and Scientology
    • Collection: UFOs >
      • Alien Abduction at the Outer Limits
      • Aliens and Anal Probes
      • Ultra-Terrestrials and UFOs
      • Rebels, Queers, and Aliens
    • Scholomance: The Devil's School
    • Prehistory of Chupacabra
    • The Templars, the Holy Grail, & Henry Sinclair
    • Magicians of the Gods Review
    • The Curse of the Pharaohs
    • The Antediluvian Pyramid Myth
    • Whitewashing American Prehistory
    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
      • Ancient Texts >
        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Eridu Genesis
          • Atrahasis Epic
          • Epic of Gilgamesh
          • Kutha Creation Legend
          • Babylonian Creation Myth
          • Descent of Ishtar
          • Resurrection of Marduk
          • Berossus
          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
          • Dream Stela of Thutmose IV
          • The Papyrus of Ani
          • Classical Accounts of the Pyramids
          • Inventory Stela
          • Manetho
          • Eratosthenes' King List
          • The Story of Setna
          • Leon of Pella
          • Diodorus on Egyptian History
          • On Isis and Osiris
          • Famine Stela
          • Old Egyptian Chronicle
          • The Book of Sothis
          • Horapollo
          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
          • The Asclepius
          • The Emerald Tablet
          • Hermetic Fragments
          • Prologue to the Kyranides
          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
        • Ctesias' Indica
        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Atlantis as Biblical History
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Atlantis and Nimrod
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and Hanno's Periplus
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
          • Amazing New Light (Hoax)
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • History of Paleontology
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • America Known to the Ancients
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Remarkable Discoveries Within the Sphinx (Hoax)
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • The Shaver Mystery >
          • Lovecraft and the Deros
          • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • CIA Search for the Ark of the Covenant
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • The Fall of the Sky
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Poltergeist UFOs
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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