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Josiah Priest on the Lost White Race, Atlantis, and the Sons of Noah

4/3/2018

38 Comments

 
​Last week I talked a bit about Josiah Priest, the author of American Antiquities (5 editions, 1833-1835), which was one of the first fringe history books in the modern style. By that, I mean that it’s a collection of random rumors, confusion, and lies, liberally spiced with plagiarism and recycled older work, enlivened by misspellings and a general lack of overall plan or coherent argument. It’s the common ancestor of the collected works of Erich von Däniken, Peter Kolosimo, Robert Charroux, and all the others of their ilk. The mischievous side of me has half a mind to gently rewrite it more contemporary English and see how many fringe publishers would snap it up. But I digress.
​I first read American Antiquities about fifteen years ago, but my memory of it is a bit thin. As I mentioned last week, because of the book’s importance as both precedent and research source for modern fringe writers, I’ve wanted to add it to my Library for a long time, but its 400 pages are more than I wanted to transcribe and proofread. However, since I have to reread it in order to write about it for the book on the mound builder myth that I am currently writing, I decided to double up tasks. I have a decent OCR transcription of the book, so I am both reading and proofreading the text. I am about two-thirds of the way through, and I must admit to having forgotten so many interesting things from the book.
 
They aren’t interesting because Priest was right, of course. They’re interesting because of all the many ways he set the stage for modern liars. Pretty much everything we see today is already present in his book. We have Scandinavians, Greeks, Romans, and Phoenicians claimed as early colonists. We have discussion of the giant Nephilim as the mound builders, with reference to both double-teeth and six toes on each foot. He speaks of cadres of ancient Egyptian mummies supposedly buried in the western U.S. and of the Zeno Brothers’ alleged voyage to America. And more important still, we even have claims about Atlantis as the homeland of the lost white race of mound builders. In all of this, I was struck by how closely American Antiquities resembles Ignatius Donnelly’s Atlantis: The Antediluvian World, which similarly ascribed ancient works to white Nephilim from Atlantis.
 
But the differences between Priest and later writers are also instructive. Modern writers, from Donnelly on down, are decidedly more secular, even when addressing religious subjects. Priest, however, puts all of his fringe history in the basket of Arkism, the bizarre fringe belief of the late 1700s and early 1800s that held that all religions around the world were corrupt remembrances of Noah’s Ark, on the theoretical grounding that all people descend from Noah’s three sons and therefore share in the memory of the Ark.
 
Consider this passage in which Priest describes the Ark and Atlantis in an effort to prove that the first Americans were white but destroyed by evil Asiatic “Indians” (i.e. Native Americans) at a later date:
But what is the distance from Mount Ararat by way of Bhering’s strait, to the middle of the United States, which is the region of the Missouri? It is something over ten thousand miles; nearly half the circuit of the globe. Here, in the region of the western states, we have, by the aid of Baron Humboldt, supposed the country of Aztalan was situated; where the great specimens of labor and ancient manners are most abundant. If this was the way the first peopIe came into America, it is very clear they could not, in the ordinary way of making a settlement here and there, have arrived soon enough to show signs of as great antiquity, in their works in America, as those of the same sort found in the north of Europe. Some other way, therefore, we are confident, the first inhabitants must have pursued, so that their works in America might compare, in character and antiquity, with those of other nations. From Ararat, in a westerly course, passing through Europe, by way of the countries now situated in Russia in Europe, to the Atlantic, the distance is scarcely 5000 miles; not half the distance the route of Bhering’s strait would have been. And if the Egyptian tradition be true respecting the island Atalantis, and the conjectures of naturalists about a union of Europe and America on the north, there was nothing to hinder their settling here, immediately after their dispersion.
 
It is supposed the first generations immediately succeeding the flood, were much more enlightened than many nations since that period; the reason is, they had not yet forgotten that which they had learned of the manners of their antediluvian ancestors, from Noah: but as they spread and diverged asunder; what they had learned from him concerning the creation, architecture, and the culture of the earth before the flood, they lost, and thus retrograded to savagism.
 
It is true, the family of Shem, of whom were Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, by the particular Providence of God, retained unadulterated, the traditional history of the creation, and of man, till the time Moses embodied it in a book, 857 years after the flood. But the rest of the nations were left, in this respect, to mere recollections; which, as soon as they divided and subdivided, became contradictory and monstrous in their accounts.
 
But the authors of the great works found in the west, seem to have retained the first ideas received from their fathers at the era of the building of Babel, equally, if not superior, to many nations of Europe, as they were in the year 800 after Christ. This is consented to on all hands, and even contended for by the historian Humboldt. In order to show the reader the propriety of believing that a colony, very soon after the confusion of the language of mankind, found their way to what is now called America, we give the tradition of the Azteca, nation, who once inhabited Aztalan, the country of the western states, but were, at the era of the conquest of South America, found inhabiting the vale of Mexico, because they had, as we have shown, been driven away by the irruptions of the Tartarian Indians, as follows: see below.
​While much is made of Priest’s encyclopedic collection of Fortean archaeology—most of which is still repeated today—I am fascinated by his synthesis of various scientific, religious, and batshit crazy ideas about the peopling of the Americas to attempt to unify them into a comprehensive and complicated history of the world that places the United States dead center in history from Noah to today. None of it is original to him except the effort to throw everything into the blender to see if enough will come together to stick in the craw of mainstream science.
38 Comments
E.P. Grondine
4/3/2018 10:25:06 am

Hi Jason-

I hope you are not going to try to claim that the Mississippian "mounds" were abandoned at the time of the DeSoto entrada,
as they were not, and their use continued into the French colonial period. My guess is that the Ichusi were Mushkogean immigrants, Lamar phase as its known, see Hudson et al.'s tracing of DeSoto's route for details on this.

The belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible was common during the colonial period, and a very big problem for the colonists was fitting Native Americans into the Bible. This confusion continues up to this day, as can be seen from both Zimmerman's writings, and the continuance of the Mormon Church's current efforts.

17,000 in book sales in the colonial period was staggering. I suppose it just goes to show, give people what they want to believe, and they'll buy it.

Reply
Stickler
4/6/2018 05:11:21 pm

It would be nice to see that 17,000 figure documented.

Reply
T. Franke link
4/3/2018 10:55:01 am

I just realized that I had not noticed Priest as an author on Atlantis, yet. But he is so late with his ideas that he maybe plays no major role for this topic. He just (ab-)uses the topic of Atlantis as so many others.

It is very difficult to decide which of the nonsense theories of these times were nonsense also in their time, or nonsense only in our better-knowing time. But since Rafinesque contradicted, many ideas were nonsense even in Priest's time, as it seems.

Furthermore, it is difficult to find the very first author who had a certain (weird) idea. I am pretty sure that Priest was not the first. Important was surely George Stanley Faber and his work "Horae Mosaicae" from 1801.

Interesting is the idea that there were two types of indians: White ones from Atlantis, and red ones from Asia. Usually, there is only one type of indians in the first theories after the discovery of America, and they are said to have come from Atlantis, or that America itself was a part of Atlantis.

Concerning Donnelly:

I cannot find the passage with the "Nephilim" as white persons from Atlantis constructing ancient works. The word "Nephilim" does not occur in Donnelly's book, does it? Donnelly repeats Biblical stories without mentioning the name "Nephilim", but this is just the repetition of the Biblical account. The exact claim of white Nephilim from Atlantis constructing ancient works is not there in Donnelly's work, I suppose. Can anybody help me if I am wrong?

Reply
Jason Colavito link
4/3/2018 12:44:46 pm

No, Nephilim does not occur in the book. He talks about the Atlanteans being antediluvians and their kings being remembered as the giants of Genesis, which makes them by default Nephilim. Here is Donnelly rationalizing the Nephilim:

"In both the Bible history and Plato's story the destruction of the people was largely caused by the intermarriage of the superior or divine race, 'the sons of God,' with an inferior stock, 'the children of men,' whereby they were degraded and rendered wicked.

"We will see hereafter that the Hebrews and their Flood legend are closely connected with the Phœnicians, whose connection with Atlantis is established in many ways."

Basically, he identifies the Sons of God as the original Atlanteans and that makes the Nephilim their offspring via miscegenation.

Reply
T. Franke link
4/3/2018 01:00:07 pm

Thank you, this is indeed the usual parallelization of Bible and Atlantis story as can be found everywhere, today.

But the Whiteness of all Atlanteans in Donnelly's thought is in doubt. Donnelly: „That Atlantis was the original seat of the Aryan or Indo-European family of nations, as well as of the Semitic peoples, and possibly also of the Turanian races.“

Jason Colavito link
4/3/2018 01:33:24 pm

He identified the evangelizers from Atlantis as white, and there is little doubt he saw them as the ruling class.

T. Franke link
4/3/2018 02:16:53 pm

I really have difficulties to come to terms with Donnelly's actual opinion about white men from Atlantis.

He often is writing by citing instead of stating himself a claim, and he is writing contradictory sentences. So I am really in doubt what he thought.

I made a short list of citations from Donnelly's work and added the "colour scheme" of each citation in brackets. As we can see, Donnelly has varying and contradictory options to offer .....

Citations:

That high and orthodox authority, François Lenormant, says ("Ancient Hist. of the East," vol. i., p. 64), "The descendants of Shem, Ham, and Japhet, so admirably catalogued by Moses, include one only of the races of humanity, the white race, whose three chief divisions he gives us as now recognized by anthropologists. The other three races--yellow, black, and red--have no place in the Bible list of nations sprung from Noah." As, therefore, the Deluge of the Bible destroyed only the land and people of Noah, it could not have been universal.
[=white in 3 divisions -- vs. yellow, red, black!]

If we confine ourselves to the Asiatic continent, .......... we find that in the vast desert of drifting human speech three, and only three, oases have been formed in which, before the beginning of all history, language became permanent and traditional .................... These three oases of language are known by the name of Turanian, Aryan, and Semitic.
[=white, red, yellow -- vs. black?]

The conclusion seems inevitable that these legends of a primitive, peaceful, and happy land, an Aztlan in the East, inhabited by black and white men, to which all the civilized nations of America traced their origin, could only refer to Atlantis--that bridge of land where the white, dark, and red races met.
[=white, black, red united -- vs. yellow?]

If it be true that the first branch originating from Atlantis was the Turanian, which includes the Chinese and Japanese, then we have derived from Atlantis all the building and metalworking races of men who have proved themselves capable of civilization; and we may, therefore, divide mankind into two great classes: those capable of civilization, derived from Atlantis, and those essentially and at all times barbarian, who hold no blood relationship with the people of Atlantis.
[=white, red, yellow -- vs. black?]

The ancient Egyptians were red men. They recognized four races of men--the red, yellow, black, and white men. They themselves belonged to the "Rot," or red men; the yellow men they called "Namu"--it included the Asiatic races; the black men were called "Nahsu," and the white men "Tamhu." ... ... ... So that not only the Mohammedan and Christian but the Buddhistic religion seem to be derived from branches of the Hamitic or red stock.
[=Red is root of religions-- vs. white, yellow, black?]

That Atlantis was the original seat of the Aryan or Indo-European family of nations, as well as of the Semitic peoples, and possibly also of the Turanian races.
[=white, red, yellow -- vs. black?]

These people, according to my theory, were colonists from Atlantis--colonists of three different races--white, yellow, and sunburnt or red.
[=white, red, yellow -- vs. black?]

When science is able to disabuse itself of the Mortonian theory that the aborigines of America are all red men, and all belong to one race, we may hope that the confluence upon the continent of widely different races from different countries may come to be recognized and intelligently studied. There can be no doubt that red, white, black, and yellow men have united to form the original population of America.
[=Red, white, black, yellow united, in America, not in Atlantis]

E.P. Grondine
4/4/2018 12:57:28 am

Hi T.

"the name of Turanian, Aryan, and Semitic.
[=white, red, yellow -- vs. black?]"

perhaps instead try =yellow, white, red

T. Franke link
4/4/2018 07:43:21 am

Yes! Thank you, E.P. Grondine, you are right.
Unfortunately, it does not dissolve the confusion.

Bajorko
4/3/2018 02:22:04 pm

I would pay you 1000 $ if you are able to debunk claims made by Mauro Biglino and Barry Downing about ancient aliens in the Bible. You never dare to debunk these claims, but smartly choose Daniken and other publishers, which didn't based this theory on the Bible. So this is your chance - show that you are able to debunk claims made by Mauro Biglino (italian scholar who translated Bible and came to conclusion that this book tells story about interraction between Israelites and group of aliens called Elohim) and Barry Downing (who made very scientific study in his 2 books about alien technology from the Bible). Until now, nobody in Italy was able to debunk Mauro Biglino works so this is your chance Jason. You don't speak italian, so you should read one book that was translated into the english (https://www.amazon.com/forever-change-ideas-about-Bible-ebook/dp/B00GX5OHYQ ; skip Sumerian staff and concrecate on Hebrew) or watch some of his lectures on youtube. 1000 $, easy money, what do you think about it? I'm pretty sure you can't debunk these claims about Yahweh, DNA combinations, UFOs, computers, ark of the covenant, Jesus, cloning etc.

Reply
Bajorko
4/3/2018 02:33:32 pm

Mauro Biglino is just too specific and concrete and I highly doubt that you could debunk his claims. He is top figure in Italy because of his claims and he clearly stated that Yahweh is an extraterrestrial, showing clear passages to him, angels and technology. Show us that you are able to debunk these claims if you are so smart, because until now nobody (theologians, priest, rabbies) was able to debunk Biglino. He sold multiple copies of his books abroad because there is clear resurrection to the ancient aliens idea in Europe, thanks to his works. This guy has incredible knowledge about Old Testament, but he is fairly not popular in United States because this is a country full of Christians and Jews who don't want to hear this stuff. So, do we have a deal and you are able to show us that Biglino isn't right? Or like always you would leave religion out of the equation of ancient aliens, despite that's the most compelling evidence in this theory? Just look on Biglino work about preparing food for gods from animal fat, what was written in Bible, Iliad and Odyssey, Sumerian texts, Popol Vuh, Indian texts etc., he pointed out that there are exactly the same religious practices, clear evidence that ancient people weren't stupid just like you say.

Reply
Huh? What?
4/3/2018 02:44:02 pm

Do you understand the word "non-falsifiable"?

Reply
Bajorko
4/3/2018 03:28:11 pm

Yes, I do. I was very sceptical about ancient aliens theory, but when I read books written by Mauro Biglino it all makes perfect sense and it's really amazing and logical. For example, this idea of preparing food for gods from animal fat is written in ancient texts made by cultures who never contacted with each other. Scientific approach to this question should be this one: either they in fact contact or they have written things which were true, just like Biglino says in his works, making his claims in scientific way with many quotes from scientists. It's all falsifable, just read these books. Yahweh is an extraterrestrial in spacesuit, is moving around in UFO and have extremely advanced artefacts and objects. All written in Hebrew, all pointed out by Biglino.

David Bradbury
4/3/2018 03:49:45 pm

Re animal fat offerings. What you need to focus on is not the fat, but what happens to the best cuts of meat from the slaughtered animals !

David Bradbury
4/3/2018 03:32:04 pm

"Mauro Biglino is just too specific and concrete"
- except when he needs some wriggle room. Then he brings on the "maybe" clauses. For example, the mountains in Zechariah 6:1 may be towers, or they may be silos, or they may be ramps ...

Reply
Clint Knapp
4/3/2018 03:49:23 pm

If Biglino's only claim to fame is making assumptions based on his reading of the Bible, I have bad news for you: all it proves is that the Bible can be interpreted in as many ways as there are people who read it.

Nothing you've cited as an example of Biglino's work stands out as a particularly groundbreaking theory, and from what I can see the guy's only been writing on these topics for about five years (his own website's book list goes back to 2013). Every example you provide can be found touched on by other authors writing decades longer than he has. Search any of them on this very site, Jason's done plenty to dig out references and original sources, and I don't feel the need to make a pile of links in this comment.

Frankly, even your final example, " he pointed out that there are exactly the same religious practices, clear evidence that ancient people weren't stupid just like you say" is so un-earthshaking that it's essentially nothing more than a dry anthropological read of how cultural myth and practices form.

The only of your examples, Biblical, Greek, Sumerian, Indian, and Mayan not directly linked by a thousand other cultural points across time is the Popol Vuh. And let's face it. The Popol Vuh is a book of Mayan oral traditions written down by a Dominican friar in the 18th century based on sources never disclosed by said friar. For it to accurately reflect a transmission of ideas from any of the other cultures to the Maya would be to accept on face value that the manuscript represents a pure record unadulterated by the three hundred years of Contact or the writer's own biases.

I wouldn't blame Jason if he doesn't bother with Biglino's writings, because they sound like exactly the same type of Johnny-Come-Lately fringe ramblings we see out of countless others; only written with an Italian-speaking audience in mind instead of an English-speaking one. However, knowing Jason's style, he'll probably look into it long enough to write up how many ways Biglino lifted his ideas from other writers just for the chance to exercise his Italian.

Reply
Bajorko
4/3/2018 05:59:53 pm

You didn't read any of his works, but immediately you are an 'expert' on topic. Funny thing is that both you and Jason Colavito are making this extremely annoying assumption: if someone in the past made similar claim, then it is a) debunked, b) not worth consideration because somebody earlier made that so it is just copying old staff. That's ridiculous. By this logic, it's not worth to write books about the same topics on anything, because somebody earlier did it.

I cited only things about Yahweh (Bible is a book about this figure) and this example with preparing animal fat for gods, written independently in many ancient texts. To be more specific, whole thing is about situation when ancient people prepared food from animal fat and then smoke it which was 'pleasent smell for God'. (Book of Leviticus 3) Exactly the same thing was written in Iliad, Odyssey, Indian texts, Sumerian, Popol Vuh and Chinese. The 'gods' like this smell and they instantly came down from the sky to these places. Biglino also cited some scientific study which suggests that there are molecules in this smoking fat which work on brain, calming down.

That's something very new and no other ancent alien author suggested that before. But Biglino makes dozens other such original claims which were never published before. Everything is based on the Hebrew Bible. I recommend to see one of his lecture on yt with english subtitles or read his book. Even is someone doesn't agree with him, you can't just say that he copied other authors because he made original claims, and not one, but many. Obviously in Italy there were big conferences with Biglino, priests, bishops, protestants, theologians, Jews and they had no chance in arguing with Biglino who is very qualified on this subject.

Jack W
4/4/2018 01:30:21 pm

So, no Christians in Italy? You make it sound as if America has all the Christians there are. Also, Biglino is not popular because no one ever heard of him. No one would bother refuting Biglino's theory's, too much time and work spent on a crackpot.

Reply
Bajorko
4/3/2018 02:37:08 pm

Is Jason Colavito a coward, who smartly choose what to debunk and what leave behind, because he is not able to debunk some claims? He never debunked Barry Downing, only pointing out that his works are about aliens in the Bible, but he never read this or reviews, just like he does with Hancock or Daniken. If you want to have some credibility, then read books written by Biglino and Downing and then show where they are wrong.

Reply
David Bradbury
4/3/2018 02:48:02 pm

Jason's take on Downing was actually that his work was so derivative (and so little revised in the face of several decades of criticism by others, going back years before Jason was even born) that there was nothing much worth saying about it:
http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/barry-downing-is-promoting-recycled-bible-ufo-claims-from-the-1950s

Reply
Bajorko
4/3/2018 03:24:12 pm

He never read his book, neither 1968 or 2017, never reviewed it like Graham Hancock's works, only written few words which is ridiculous. Barry Downing is extremely rational man, with scientific background and both of his books are really interesting. Colavito never writes anything about Mauro Biglino because he knows that he can't debunk his claims, so it's better to be silent, which is really acting of coward.

David Bradbury
4/3/2018 03:34:30 pm

I think perhaps you don't really understand the meaning of "non-falsifiable" as well as you think you do.

Huh? What?
4/3/2018 04:01:44 pm

Do you understand the word "non-falsifiable"?

Based on available evidence you do not. Prove me wrong.

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
4/3/2018 07:20:04 pm

Some quick googling suggests a likely reason why Jason hasn't dealt with Barry Downing very much: He isn't all that important relative to other writers and what he says seems to be said by others, so when you debunk one you debunk the others along with them. (Though as others have pointed out, Jason's dealt with him some at any rate.)

I recommend you look up the various websites of Michael Heiser, PhD, who has addressed the Bible and other ancient texts as they relate to ancient aliens theories. I doubt Heiser will convince you, as you seem to be quite a dedicated soul, but it's still good material.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Reply
Bajorko
4/3/2018 07:32:12 pm

I know Christian writer Michael Heiser (btw is 'sceptic' Jason Colavito also a christian?), but you shouldn't act like Barry Downing is just some kind of 'priest' or something. Downing holds a PhD in the relation between religion and science from the University of Edinburgh of Scotland. He also has a B.A in physics from Hartwick College, and a degree from Princeton Theological Seminary. Downing is important, because the most compelling evidence comes from the Bible. Other author who often quotes Bible is Erich von Daniken but Downing goes much deeper than Daniken, who delibaretaly leave Jesus topic aside. Also I think that it would be great idea to debate Mauro Biglino with Michael Heiser, although Heiser is Christian so he has an agenda to fight for. I think that Biglino provides too specific point on many subjects that Heiser would be able to debunk it.

A Buddhist
4/3/2018 09:04:10 pm

I would place great caution on relying on Heiser, because although he analyses the Bible and refutes Ancient Alien interpretations of it, he is a Christian and holds the Bible to be special as the guide to salvation. But gods and men, it is funny to see his writings about the Bible's teaching about a flat Earth, especially alongside comments by less reasonable Christians: http://drmsh.com/christians-who-believe-the-earth-is-really-flat-does-it-get-any-dumber-than-this/

He also confuses Buddhism with materialism, simply because non-heretical Buddhism rejects the soul. Buddhism was aware of Indian materialism (Charvaka (IAST: Cārvāka), originally known as Lokāyata and Bṛhaspatya) and rejected it as well as rejecting (outside heretical movements) the soul.

PLEASE IN THE NAME OF RAS TAFARI
4/3/2018 11:01:01 pm

PLEASE IN THE NAME OF RAS TAFARI stop trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs and raping everyone's eyeballs with your unschooled and incorrect presentations of Indian philosophy.

An Anonymous Nerd
4/4/2018 07:14:01 am

I picked Heiser for this purpose because this fellow posting might be more-likely to listen to someone else who uses the Bible (but uses it better), because Heiser seems like an awesome guy, because Heiser is credentialed well, and because Heiser has engaged Downing directly on occasion. (Granted their engagements seem mostly to not have been recorded and the recorded engagements mostly are just snippy, but still.)

Sure Heiser has his own ideas to push but most scholars do. You usually have to say something semi-original (at minimum!) to get the PhD. That gives you a perspective to push, and ideas of your own to try and propagate.

That's one reason I'm glad we have fellows like Jason who approaches these things more like a really good journalist would: "So....what really happened? What could and could not have happened? How close can we get to what really happened? Here's a coherent article about all of the above."

-An Anonymous Nerd

A Buddhist
4/4/2018 05:49:40 pm

PLEASE IN THE NAME OF RAS TAFARI: What am I wrong about in your mind?

Do you know about non-heretical Buddhist movements that accept souls?

Or do you assert that the Charvaka (IAST: Cārvāka) were not materialists and atheists?

A Buddhist
4/7/2018 09:18:52 am

PLEASE IN THE NAME OF RAS TAFARI: Since you are not mentioning any non-heretical Buddhist movement that accepts souls, I take it that you agree with me that there are no non-heretical Buddhist movements that accept souls. I fail to see the contradiction between saying "simply because non-heretical Buddhism rejects the soul" and asking "Do you know about non-heretical Buddhist movements that accept souls?". The question was simply a polite way of asking whether you had any claim (as opposed to mere insult) that would contradict my claim that "non-heretical Buddhism rejects the soul". I could have insulted you about your contradiction of this claim (which apparently you agree with), but I chose to treat you with good faith and politeness (a courtesy that you have not extended to me).

As for the Charvaka (IAST: Cārvāka) philosophy, you are not denying that it is Indian materialism. However, you are asserting, with no evidence, that it is not the only Indian materialism contemporary with the Buddha's preaching (as is presented in the Tripitaka/Tipitaka). If you would like to provide evidence for this claim, please do so. Are you thinking of the Ajivikas (atheists who believed in souls and reincarnation)? Or modern Indian atheist materialism? Or the Ajnanas (skeptics who refused to make any statements)?

Finally, your remark about suicide is extremely uncalled for. What if suicidal people are reading this blog? Are you not aware that in several jurisdictions is is a crime to encourage suicide? Not that I am accusing you of such a thing, but talk about suicide should be done with great caution, not in the course of an intemperate barrage of insults and accusations.

Jason Colavito link
4/3/2018 09:30:02 pm

There is an old saw that in comedy one punches up, never down. I have little to say about Downing because his work was not original even when it was new, and I have covered the same claims from the pens of older and more original authors.

It is hardly cowardice for me to devote my limited time to those authors and personalities who are the most famous, popular, and influential. Every country has its parochial fringe writer, and Italy has several of them. But they are virtually unknown outside of their home countries, and of very little interest to a general readership.

I can't say that you have made a compelling case for considering him anything special. The issue you raised about sacrifices is illogical. Even if everything you say Biglino says about sacrifices is true, it requires no aliens to explain. But it sounds like Biglino hasn't looked too deeply into the literature. Walter Burkert investigated this issue decades ago and explained sacrifice in detail. He argued that sacrifice emerged from the cognitive stress caused by needing to kill animals for food, and thus they pretended to consecrate them to justify the violence. By burning the least desirable or inedible parts of the animal and pretending these were the parts most loved of the gods, they both relieved the stress of killing and recreated a necessity of food as a sacred rite. Such reasoning, derived from psychological processes, thus appeared in many different locations independently. Since this explanation fully accounts for the evidence without recourse to aliens, it is on Biglino to explain why aliens are necessary. It is, of course, not possible to "debunk" a claim that is based only on interpretation of evidence, nor would I claim to. Instead, the question is whether there is evidence to justify the reasoning.

Reply
Americanegro
4/3/2018 11:03:43 pm

Sounds like YOU know what "non-falsifiable" means.

An Anonymous Nerd
4/4/2018 07:15:01 am

Well-said as always.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Only Me
4/3/2018 09:06:18 pm

>>You didn't read any of his works, but immediately you are an 'expert' on topic.<<

And yet, you argue Biglino IS an expert by virtue of writing a book, something you repeat later:

>>...Biglino who is very qualified on this subject.<<

Why? For writing a book? I guess that means since I can perform basic maintenance on my house, I'm now qualified to build my own Hoover Dam.

>>Downing holds a PhD in the relation between religion and science from the University of Edinburgh of Scotland. He also has a B.A in physics from Hartwick College, and a degree from Princeton Theological Seminary.<<

Explain, in your own words, not Downing's, how any of that:

A. Proves the existence of God
B. God is an extraterrestrial

As one of the few self-identified Christians on this blog, I'm specifically intrigued by A, since all I've had to go on is faith. I'll need irrefutable proof to convince me both Downing and Biglino have achieved what no one else has been able to do.

Just so you know, Jason not debunking either Downing or Biglino ≠ cowardice.

Reply
ASSmericanegro
4/5/2018 04:12:36 pm

Bonus points to you for using "≠" instead of the the bullshit "/=". What is wrong with people? This is one of my pet peeves, in fact I am a peeve rancher (free range) and volunteer at a shelter for rescue peeves.

Reply
Machala
4/3/2018 09:20:37 pm

I subscribe to the thought that fringe theories regarding god, ancient aliens, race and religion - especially the bad ones - are expanded, distorted, and copied or plagiarized and perpetuated by the delusional and disillusioned, ad nausea !

Poor ole Priest ! As Jason said, his writing set the stage for the modern day charlatans and liars - many of them, never giving the old boy credit for his crack pot ideas that they are repeating.

One of Priest fatal flaws in reasoning is the same one that the Italian that Bojorko is so enamored of. They both BELIEVE what is written in the "Bible" ! They are turning to works fictional writings of dubious origin to PROVE their bizarre theories.
That's about as absurd as believing all the crap written by a second rate science fiction hack is the truth regarding Thetans and mind.....oh, wait !..... that's been done. Well, as the late great Emily Latella would say: "Never mind ! "

Reply
A Buddhist
4/7/2018 09:31:19 am

Jason Colavito: I am sorry to have to bring this to your attention, but the commentator PLEASE IN THE NAME OF RAS TAFARI, on 4/6/2018 05:19:39 pm, wrote to me: "You are a self-contradicting idiot. Have you considered honorably making suicide?"

Surely talking to people in such harsh terms about suicide is a violation of the terms of use of this blog, whose terms and conditions say "At his discretion, Jason Colavito or his designee will remove comments containing abusive, offensive, vulgar, racist, threatening or harassing comments, or personal attacks of any kind."

I hope that you can consider remedying this situation in order to make the internet slightly safer for those who are suicidal.

Reply
John J McKay link
4/9/2018 11:33:40 pm

You know I have lats of experience correcting OCR having done a couple thousand pages for my own book. I'd be happy to take a hundred pages to help.

Reply

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          • Dream Stela of Thutmose IV
          • The Papyrus of Ani
          • Classical Accounts of the Pyramids
          • Inventory Stela
          • Manetho
          • Eratosthenes' King List
          • The Story of Setna
          • Leon of Pella
          • Diodorus on Egyptian History
          • On Isis and Osiris
          • Famine Stela
          • Old Egyptian Chronicle
          • The Book of Sothis
          • Horapollo
          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
          • The Asclepius
          • The Emerald Tablet
          • Hermetic Fragments
          • Prologue to the Kyranides
          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
        • Ctesias' Indica
        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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