Juan Ponce de Leon and the Overton Stone of Nova Scotia: What's in a Name?

11/1/2017

We seem to have entered a time when fantasy has completely replaced reality, and it is rather disconcerting. History itself is starting to bend to the will of the propagandists. It was genuinely surprising to hear White House Chief of Staff John Kelly and press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders yesterday praising Robert E. Lee for his “accomplishments” and suggesting that “compromise” could have prevented the Civil War. How, precisely, does one compromise over the question of whether some people deserve to own others? Whether intentional or not, such comments suggest that in their heart of hearts Kelly and the Trump Administration consider the very humanity of African Americans to be negotiable, and don’t really think about slavery or legally enforced segregation as a moral evil as much as an inconvenience. This is still shocking because Robert E. Lee himself once said “that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil,” though he added that it was “necessary” for the “instruction” of the racially inferior.

Meanwhile, many of you will have already seen that over the weekend former television personality Scott F. Wolter posted a blog entry asking whether a curvilinear carving on the so-called Overtone Stone is the signature of Juan Ponce de Leon during a heretofore undocumented excursion to Nova Scotia.

The evidence Wolter offers for consideration is laughably thin, even by his standards. The rock is covered with a number of inscriptions, ranging from a Christian cross to a leaf to Arabic numerals. One figure includes two curved figures formed from a single line. Wolter suggests an inconceivably stupid explanation for it:

While there is no known record of the famous explorer ever sailing as far north as Nova Scotia, but that doesn't mean he could not have. The symbol circled in the image of Juan Ponce de Leon's signature below is the reason I bring up the possibility. The "de" in de Leon's signature is strikingly familiar to the double looped carving on the Overton Stone. The only meaningful difference between the two symbols is the bottom end of the carved line on the far right bends to the left instead of the right.

Juan Ponce de Leon's signature. The "De" appears on the left of line 2.

Tracing of the lower carvings on the Overton stone. The linked curves are in line 1 at left.

That’s a pretty meaningful difference if your argument is that the figure represents the preposition “de” and not two d’s. Wolter does not address the even more ridiculous notion that Juan Ponce de Leon would abbreviate his name to the preposition in it and not any of the actual identifiable elements in it. The “de” means “of” and identifies him as a member of the Ponce family and as a descendent of the kings of Leon. It would be like Eric von Däniken calling himself “von” or Adam of Bremen calling himself “of.” It’s ridiculous. When challenged on this point in the comments to his blog post, Wolter restated his belief that the ligature form of “de” was unique to Ponce de Leon (it isn’t) and that he would have used it as a way to identify himself (he didn’t), even though he wrote it the wrong way on the stone.

But the warrant that Wolter hangs his claims upon is the fact that there are no good records for what Ponce de Leon was doing between 1493 and 1503. During those ten years, it is not clear whether he remained in the Caribbean or returned to Spain. Consequently, Wolter can interpolate into the silence of the records a “secret” trip to Nova Scotia, where he left no other record than to sign his name “of,” wrongly.

42 Comments

Titus pullo

11/1/2017 09:43:38 am

Jason,
I think ur missing the point general kelly was making. Besides haiti and the US every other western nation practicing african slavery ended without massive killing and destruction! In the US over 700,000 young men lost their lives and millions wounded physically or mentally. Yes ensuring the pricipals of the declaration of independance to all was paramount but could there have been a path with less bloodshed is a valid statement.

crainey

11/1/2017 10:36:42 am

It already was a compromise. The north just wanted to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. They weren't out to declare slavery illegal. Just Lincoln running and winning on that platform was enough to make the southern states secede. Kelly doesn't know what he is talking about, just like his boss.

Josh Hauck

11/1/2017 11:45:33 am

Well, I suppose you could argue that the failure to compromise was on the south. Had the firebrands in the southern legislatures not taken control and pushed for secession, there would have been a very different outcome.

But for some reason, everybody forgets about the possible the slavery amendment, the offers of restitution and the attack on Fort Sumter. Somehow it's like Lincoln declared war the day he was elected and there was nothing the poor beleaguered south could do.

Causticacrostic

11/4/2017 06:58:32 pm

There were a few compromises over slavery.
The 3/5ths Clause, Fugitive Slave Act of 1793, Missouri Compromises of 1820 and 1821, the Compromise of 1850, and the Kansas-Nebraska Act.

Joe Scales

11/1/2017 10:08:48 am

This is idiotic, even for Wolter. So much so, that it really doesn't scream for debunking. It just screams...

bear47

11/1/2017 03:54:46 pm

Joe,
I agree totally. You win the inter webs for today.

Americanegro

11/1/2017 10:27:31 am

Lee was unarguably one of the most accomplished officers of his day. Any military historian will tell you that.

The Emancipation Proclamation was itself a compromise. It "ended" slavery solely in areas not under Union control. In other words, it did jack.

If I were coaching up a young writer I would suggest first and foremost not to make everything about Trump.

11/1/2017 10:30:31 am

Oh, and Scott Wolter is an idiot. Forgot to tag that on, sorry.

11/1/2017 11:58:21 am

... and yet, historians argue. Lee's decision to wage an aggressive war when his side was clearly on the defensive has been questioned for generations. Military historian Edward Bonekemper has hammered at this point for years, "Although Lee has been praised for his offensives against the Union Army of the Potomac, he was carrying out an aggressive strategy with aggressive tactics that were inconsistent with what should have been a Confederate grand defensive strategy."

E.P. Grondine

11/1/2017 01:01:56 pm

"If I were coaching up a young writer I would suggest first and foremost not to make everything about Trump."

They don't have to. While about 1/3 of the population tries to ignore them, the facts are what they are.

11/2/2017 07:17:29 pm

I've always considered census records calling people white to be facts.

Jim

11/1/2017 11:25:28 am

Jason, I was the one to challenge Wolter on the use de as a identifying signature. I also provided him with a link showing a quite different example of ol Poncy's signature with the De part looking exactly like a written De should look, without that left sided curlicue hanging down. Wolter left off by saying there was no difference other than a slight change to the DE part, and then added an arrogant "Swing and miss I’m afraid.". I responded that n's in Ponce and Leon in my example were both written in longhand with the n's present, whereas in his example the n's are written in a shorthand. In this version they are both missing and are represented by a horizontal strait line above the letters at the end of each name. I also noted the bigger difference in his letter D. Wolter of course refused to publish my last response showing how wrong he was, leaving his "Swing and miss I’m afraid." as the final say. The whole thing just seems to be on account of sloppy penmanship by Ponce.
One thing you got wrong here Jason, in your rendition of the carving on the stone, the bottom of the letter e part of the alleged De on the actual stone does not curl left nor right, but hangs pretty much straight down, somewhat resembling a sperm, lol.

11/1/2017 11:39:43 am

I wouldn't waste your time Jim, trying to reason with Wolter. This latest idiocy is simply too stupid to entertain on any level. I mean... it's not even funny at this point. Even if Wolter were just playing to his imbecilic fan base... or what's left of them... this is near malpractice for even the Fringe, to present such frivolity as insightful speculation. This is beneath even a child. So again, it harkens back to just how truly dumb Wolter is; and yeah, it's unfathomable at this point. And not even worth poking a stick at.

11/1/2017 12:02:03 pm

You are probably right Joe, however it's kinda fun. Nice to note what Wolter will or will not publish in his comments.
Also, in a delicious little catch 22 for Wolter, does he leave my post with the link to the other Ponce De leon signature up, forever demonstrating how wrong he is, or does he delete it, clearly demonstrating to us that he will not accept legitimate and pertinent evidence that disagrees with his speculation.
Also I was a little mistaken in noting the n in Leon in this signature, it seems to be missing completely, although I am far from a linguist.
I will put up the link for his other signature here for posterity.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=JcDGZgKtWG4C&pg=PA105&lpg=PA105&dq=ponce+de+leon+signature&source=bl&ots=BMr9i2k5Dm&sig=Ah1usTRd3U126MaGoZH6zXiUZZk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGj_T15JfXAhVGyoMKHarfDg84ChDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&q=ponce%20de%20leon%20signature&f=false

11/1/2017 03:53:07 pm

If Wolter deleted the posts on his blog that made him look like the idiot he truly is... there wouldn't be much left. No, I've not seen him delete things he's already posted. Probably because he hasn't figured out how to do so. Seriously.

But why even try to debate with him what Ponce de Leon's handwriting looks like. First you'd have to establish that he carved rocks, and then would find a new land and leave only conjunction to stand as record of his achievement. It's the kind of what if that only a child could imagine. To see his people eat it up only goes to show you what a dearth of intelligence resides there. No, this last entry of his should have been ignored completely. Making fun of it is akin to teasing cripples.

Not the Comte de Saint Germain

11/1/2017 05:24:29 pm

I once argued with Wolter on his blog over his China episode, the one whose starting point was "the Chinese made stone walls, here's an old stone wall in California, therefore the Chinese built it and therefore discovered America."

The more credible evidence in the episode was a Chinese map that dates to the beginning of the 17th century and was based on information provided by Matteo Ricci, a Jesuit in China. Wolter's guest on the show claimed the map was based on information from before Columbus, but I pointed out (adding detailed evidence to a point that Jason made) that the map exactly reflects the state of Spanish exploration of the Americas at the time, rather than what any Chinese exploration of the West Coast would have found. I even pointed out a 1569 Mercator map whose treatment of the Americas was remarkably similar to that of the Chinese one. I was arguing with a (heh) stone wall.

11/1/2017 05:28:51 pm

Oh, and Wolter said "we really don't have a consensus on when [the map] was made," even though the map contains a preface signed, albeit in Chinese, by Ricci. Basic background research should have eliminated the map as evidence, but if Wolter did basic background research, he would never have had a show in the first place.

Mary Baker

11/1/2017 12:34:31 pm

Since Lee and Grant were such close friends, we are lucky that Grant chose the North. He did struggle with that. Where is praise for him? Do they have problems with scandal in his presidency, given Trump's scandal-ridden presidency?

11/2/2017 03:56:12 am

Mary Baker, you sound like a crazy person. Can you post something that sounds normal please?

Clete

11/2/2017 09:56:36 am

The truth is that Lee and Grant hardly knew each other. They had met briefly during the Mexican War in 1846. Lee's career had taken off after the war, while Grant had resigned from the Army. When the Civil War broke out, Lee was offered Command of the Army of the United States and would have replaced Winfield Scott. He turned it down and resigned his commission and offered his services to the Confederacy. Grant was working in his fathers leather shop. He, as a graduate of West Point, offered his services to the North and began his rise in the West, eventually taking the City of Vicksburg and opening up the Mississippi River and split the Confederacy in two. Lincoln summoned him the Washington and gave him command of the Union armies.

Peter de Geus

11/1/2017 01:29:16 pm

The carvings were first 'reported' in 2009. That's pretty recent isn't it? 06 07 hmmm... June 2007 maybe, somebodies initials maybe. Nah too obvious.

I have lived with de all my life. I'm having a good laugh at Wolter's expense.

11/1/2017 02:37:47 pm

Yup, much too obvious, you are clearly missing the allegorical nature of the carving, as well as the coded astronomical references. Also if you draw a straight line due north from the stone on Google earth you end up exactly at the north pole !!!! And to top that off, if you draw a line due south you end up exactly at the south pole !!!!!! That just can't be coincidental.

Only Me

11/1/2017 01:50:41 pm

No, no, no. That is obviously a poor attempt at carving the General Mills logo. Clearly that symbol was left by the proto-Templars/Templars/Cistercians/Freemasons as a clue to their passing. This goes beyond cookies, damn it!

Anyway, yeah, Wolter continues to spiral further into irrelevancy.

BETTY

11/1/2017 03:28:44 pm

“How, precisely, does one compromise over the question of whether some people deserve to own others?“

It is not much different these days because capitalists also kind of own their employees, not to mention private central bank Federal Reserve to which the whole nation pays interest. As humanity has evolved so have methods of slavery become more sophisticated, but it is slavery nonetheless.

11/1/2017 03:56:40 pm

High interest or not, the accommodations are certainly better these days...

Bob Jase

11/1/2017 04:13:17 pm

So Ponce used only a prepositional initial when he signed things?

Good thing I've never carved my last intial into a stone anywhere or Wolter would claim that Jesus had been there.

BigFred

11/1/2017 05:05:37 pm

I thinks it's plausible that "de" was the rapper name he went by. There are numerous examples of guys using parts of their names or initials as their rapper names.

Jason Colavito is an ass

11/1/2017 09:47:55 pm

Jason is a race baiting asshole! Robert E. Lee defended his state asswipe.
8000 Mexicans fought for the Confederacy. Not for slavery but to defend their familys from the yankees asswipe!

An Over-Educated Grunt

11/4/2017 10:46:04 pm

Oh? What is the state asswipe of Virginia?

Was it similar to the apparent Yankee attack asswipe?

Was the Yankee attack asswipe some sort of rogue toilet paper monster that had broken free and invaded Mexico?

JASON THE IDIOT

11/1/2017 09:48:57 pm

HEY IDIOT STAY OUT OF POLITICS! YOU RAMBLE ON AND SHOW YOUR TRUE COMMUNIST COLORS! IDIOT!

AAA

11/2/2017 08:28:24 am

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Geo

11/2/2017 02:22:11 pm

It looks like "da" to me - I think it's proof that the Stone was signed by Leonardo da Vinci!

11/2/2017 03:37:45 pm

Nah, Leonard Dicaprio.

11/2/2017 07:51:40 pm

Da Vinci, eh? Now you're thinking like a true Wolterite. You need to go share this with his blog, pronto.

Jason the Socialist commie ass

11/3/2017 05:26:39 am

Ass bigot jackass
Read some history asshole

11/3/2017 08:01:25 am

Oh, are we playing Internet Tough Guy Koan now?

Douchebag beta cuck
If you should meet the Buddha on the road, kill him

11/3/2017 09:40:26 am

I met the Buddha on the sidewalk and pushed him into the road - right in front of a speeding bus.

11/3/2017 02:53:20 pm

Antifa communist shitlord
You and the Buddha are both illusions

Please Do Not Say Cuck You Faggot

11/3/2017 08:00:04 pm

Why did the Buddha cross the road?

He wanted him some damn chicken, that's why!

11/13/2017 02:17:09 pm

For anyone still following along,, Wolter's most recent post on his blog has the Templars sailing to America around 1107. That's right they were coming to America 20 years prior to having even been in existence !

"The Templars were master sailors and had the finest sailing fleet in the world at the time of the putdown in 1307. They had every reason to seek out a new home in North America; a place they had been visiting for nearly 200 years prior."

That"s not even getting into the,,, " master sailors and had the finest sailing fleet in the world ",,,which is utter nonsense.

Then this,,, " The Kensington party came to North America around 1360 and established a settlement in the heartland."

11/13/2017 02:22:47 pm

That should read,, Wolters most recent comment on this blog post.

http://scottwolteranswers.blogspot.ca/2017/10/did-ponce-de-leon-carve-overton-stone.html

Mike Morgan

11/15/2017 01:33:09 pm

Not to mention the even more far out crap that Wolter allows Americanergo's favorite delusional poster on Wolter's blog, Anthony Warren, to continually post. I hypothesize that Wolter allows it because he thinks his foolish ideas seem almost sane by comparison.

Latest example:
Anonymous November 14, 2017 at 1:11 PM
Scott,

I've been following a familial astronomer priesthood which has been given many names by various authors. I've followed these people from where I believe they rebegan on through to modern times. These families have existed within every society, culture, country, and landmass. Their names, and symbolism have changed but, a couple of things stay the same. First, and most importantly they are a family. Second, the meanings behind their morphing symbolism is astronomy. More often than not answer can be found in the stars.

I'm seeing all kinds of connections.

Anthony Warren