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L. A. Marzulli's Skull Expert Speaks Out about Paracas "Sub-Species"

3/2/2018

37 Comments

 
​When I spoke with Nephilim theorist L. A. Marzulli last week about the elongated skulls of Paracas, he assured me that his team anthropologist, Rick Woodward, who holds a master’s in anthropology and geography and who is currently studying for a Ph.D. in Biblical archaeology, was an expert in skulls and would be able to answer some basic questions about the supposedly anomalous osteology of the Paracas elongated skulls. I am always willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, and yesterday Marzulli posted to YouTube an interview he did with Woodward on Wednesday about the supposed skeletal anomalies. I was left a bit confused about Woodward’s approach and findings, which seemed to imply a lack of familiarity with the scholarly literature on the subject.
​The interview can be seen in the YouTube video below at the 30-minute mark, after the half hour of rightwing propaganda and commercials for pet urine stain remover. 
​Woodard claimed that measurements of the Paracas skulls found that the foramen magnum, the hole in the base of the skull where the spinal column attaches, was located 1 cm further back than in an average human skull. “You cannot do that with head-binding. You cannot do that with head-wrapping,” he said. “That absolutely, positively has to be genetically done.” It was not, however, clear to me that he had accounted for the plastic nature of infant skulls, since his description appeared to refer to adult skulls, in which the bones are essentially fixed, rather than children’s skulls, where the bones are not fully grown and might be more susceptible to pressures created by outside forces. Indeed, as we shall see, other scholars came to similar conclusions years ago.
 
Woodward also said that the palate was shaped like a C rather than a U, meaning that the palate was wider and shallower. He also claims that the openings allowing for nerve and blood vessel attachments for the muscles that control the jaw, the foramen ovales, were missing “and there was no place for them.” Fortunately, I was able to find one of Marzulli’s team’s presentation slides in which the supposed anomaly appears:
Picture
​It’s a little difficult to see, but the “normal” human skull appears at left and two elongated skulls at right. The foramen magnum is the big hole in the middle of each skull. The two elongated skulls’ openings are in the same position as the “normal” skull but appear to be farther back because the skull’s rearmost sections have been compressed out of position. Woodward states that this is impossible, and binding cannot compress the back of the head or move the foramen magnum without producing death. We will see that this is not the consensus of science.
 
They are, however, smaller in size. Whether this is due to cranial deformation pressures, genetic differences, or the skulls belonging to not yet fully developed individuals, I cannot say. A similar skull photographed by Brien Foerster does not appear to have a significantly smaller foramen magnum. Woodward dismisses this, without sufficient evidence, as merely skulls that have been hybridized with normal human DNA. Unless he has reliable dating to prove that anomalous skulls are decisively older, I don’t see how you can assume some skulls hybridized and then use the assumption to prove the point.

​(The quotation from Brien Foerster is part of the image below as found online.)
Picture
A Paracas skull photographed by Brien Foerster, with foramen ovales present.
​As you can see, in the first photo the pointer is aiming at two small holes before the foramen magnum. These are the foramen ovales. They do not appear in the elongated skulls photographed by Woodward, but they are present in the one photographed by Foerster. The skulls Woodward photographed also seem to be in rough shape; I wonder if they were partially fossilized and if there is calcification that might have covered over the holes. Their presence in other elongated skulls argues against this being a genetic trait of Nephilim. In a quick review of the archaeological literature, I found references in some articles to the foramen ovales being filled in or sealed up in partially fossilized skulls. Admittedly, it is a topic so obscure that virtually nothing has been written about it.
 
Woodward added that the cheek bones were enlarged beyond what a normal skull would exhibit, and he claims that the foramen magnum’s anatomy is “reversed” from “normal” human anatomy, with the bony “slot” into which the spine slides appearing in the front rather than the rear of the hole. It seems difficult to believe that no anatomist in two centuries had caught on to the entire anatomy being backward. It is perhaps telling that while claiming genetic origins for traits like these, he also suspects that some of the features around the foramen magnum, the foramen condyles, became robust because of the unbalanced weight of the elongated skull sitting atop them, implying that this was an acquired characteristic due to stress and not a genetic trait.
 
Woodward offers a testable hypothesis: In announcing his belief that the Paracas people are a “new subspecies,” he says that they “undoubtedly had a longer neck” to compensate for their misplaced foramen magnum. This should be easy enough to establish. The skulls didn’t come from nowhere, and sure at least some have bodies whose locations are known. Do no Peruvian museums have complete skeletons with elongated skulls?
 
Based on his skull analysis, Woodward declares that the skulls came from “far Eastern Europe” or “the Middle East,” apropos of nothing. He claims that they were a genetic isolate and were “pushed out” when “wars” (presumably he means those of the invading Jews after the Exodus) pushed them out of God’s country. I need not point out that this makes no sense and has no relationship to the bones.
 
As the interview drew to a close, Woodward explained his research process. Woodward said that his mentor, Hiram Gregory, cautioned him to examine the Paracas people’s epigenetics, or how gene expression can vary according to environmental or other non-genetic factors, but Woodward said that his belief that these people represented an isolated remnant of pre-Flood Europeans meant that “epigenetics would not have been a concern.” This isn’t right. He further confused the issue by wrongly defining epigenetics as “the flow of genetics into a population,” and he seems to have confused epigenetics with gene flow (gene migration). He mentions a number of scholars that he claims provided him with the information he used in his analysis:

  • Hiram “Pete” Gregory, Northwestern State University anthropologist. He tried to explain epigenetics (or gene flow; who really knows?) to Woodward.
  • Ross Sackett, University of Memphis anthropologist specializing in ecology and nutrition. Sackett told Woodward that head binding won’t affect the base of the skull.
  • Vera Tiesler, anthropologist at Autonomous University of Yucatan specializing in cranial deformation among the Maya. Woodward said that she also stated that head binding does not significantly change the base of the skull. I spoke with Dr. Tiesler this morning, and she told me that Woodward has misrepresented her views. I asked her if the Paracas skulls were anomalous or represented a new subspecies. “Absolutely not,” she said. “This is completely bogus.”
 
From this, Woodward derived a faulty conclusion: He determined that if head binding does not affect the base of the skull, then any changes to the base of the skull must be genetic. He failed to eliminate other potential explanations before leaping the conclusion that we are looking at a confounding mixture of (a) European, (b) Fallen Angel, and (c) new subspecies of human DNA.
 
The problem is that Woodward started out doing the right thing, asking more qualified scholars for help. But he asked them before he started examining the skulls and without showing them the skulls or asking for their opinion on his findings once he made them. Thus, he is applying hypothetical and general statements made by these experts as support for specific claims they never evaluated. A better approach might have been to ask the experts for their opinion on these specific skulls and whether there were alternative explanations for the features identified.
 
The claims Woodward makes for the impossibility and strangeness of these skulls, as it turns out, don’t entirely harmonize with the scholarly literature, where distinct differences in the cranial base, face, and palate similar to those found by Woodward were discovered and analyzed in 1992. An article in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology reported that:
Fronto-occipitally reshaped Ancon [prehistoric Peruvian] crania are significantly different from normal in the vault, cranial base, and face. The vault is compressed along an anterior-superior to posterior-inferior axis and expanded along a mediolateral axis in modified individuals. The cranial base is wider and shallower in the modified crania and the face is foreshortened and wider with the anterior orbital rim moving inferior and posterior towards the cranial base.
A second article that year by some of the same authors determined—surprise, surprise!—that head-binding also causes the mandible to take on a slightly wider and shallower form, meaning that it creates, as Woodward terms it, a more C-shaped rather than U-shaped jaw.
 
(Other studies had different findings, which some scholars attribute to differences in head-binding techniques, which are still not entirely understood.)
 
Moreover, a 2003 study of Peruvian skulls by two French scholars found that head binding produces noticeable changes in the basiooccipital area near to the foramen magnum, resulting in a foreshortened rear of the skull, a foramen magnum further back, and the other basic changes Woodward attributes to “subspecies” genes. The article provides this useful graphic comparing a morphologically “normal” skull (solid line) with an elongated one (dashed line) when the skulls have been controlled for size and the location of key features to produce a scientifically accurate comparison of the complete skull rather than selecting only one measurement to compare between them.
Picture
A Peruvian skull non-deformed (PND) compared to a Peruvian skull circumferentially deformed (PC).
​As you can see, when compared scientifically and centered in a fixed point in the anatomy, rather than compared in one single measurement as Woodward did, all of the morphological differences he observed fall within the expected variation. He got fooled by the projection of the face and the foreshortening of the rear of the skull, making it look like the foramen magnum is farther back in the skull, when really the features at the front and back of the skull have been remodeled.
 
Woodward finished with the claim that the sagittal suture is missing in these skulls, but here again this feature has been recognized in bound and elongated skulls for more than a century and attributed to the pressure of binding forcing premature closure, as Christine White reported in a 1996 study in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, and which can be found in literature going back to the Victorians.
 
So, while I don’t have any definitive explanation for the foramen ovales in the Paracas skulls, nearly all of the other identified features have already been researched and discussed in academic literature, which somehow Woodward has either chosen to reject in favor of a Biblical fantasy or does not know. Basically, it seems to come down to a case of an inexpert researcher imagining he has discovered the unknown when the answers have already been published.
37 Comments
Jim
3/2/2018 10:04:02 am

"Interview ",, lol, the whole thing sounded scripted to me.
They should get more opinions from chiropractors.

Reply
Dr RJ Nicholas
3/25/2019 12:25:52 am

So what about their claims that these beings came from near the Black Sea (claiming to have proven this by DNA testing)?

Reply
Carl Feagans link
3/25/2019 01:48:26 am

In short, their aDNA tests were amateur-hour. While they made some attempt to avoid contamination, they simply didn't have the expertise to do it correctly. People who do aDNA testing as a profession know that contamination is an almost certainty. They take steps to limit it as much as possible and to account for what they can't eliminate.

These chuckleheads didn't bother to send in samples of DNA for everyone that came in contact with the origin of the sample. And if they used one of the manhandled skulls from that silly private museum, they probably couldn't since people have been desecrating those remains by passing it around as a curiosity for years. But they didn't even bother to send in samples of the principle people involved with the collection process either.

Some of their samples returned results consistent with indigenous Native Americans. And at least two (if memory serves correct) returned results that included European ancestry. Of course, everyone pawing at the poor dead person's remains are of European descent.

Dunior
3/2/2018 10:14:11 am

Its kind of funny to see all these ancient aliens guys jockey to make their theory a reality so they at least have the illusion of making some dough. This seems to be the common denominator in alternate views like this. Money. Also fascinating is how many blatant scam artists are working this. This stuff is so whacked that I wonder if these guys really believe it themselves? The alien mummy thing last year caused a noticeable increase in far out claims like this including the UFO door in the face of Mt. Adams at the UFO ranch. You just cant make this stuff up. Or can you? I think Jason should do an expose' on the ECETI UFO ranch.

Reply
Rich
5/10/2018 12:21:59 pm

Your point is interesting however biased it may equally be but to the opposite view. Essentially, your approach is based on an erroneous (meaning incorrect) assumption - there simply are no aliens possible so any claims (even if supported by irrefutable evidence - which this isn't but that's beside the point) is meaningless and any discussion about it a waste of time. Your assumption of course flies in the face of the many millions of people around the world that have either :
A) personally witnessed unexplained (unidentifiable) space craft of non-human origin
B) have personally witnessed non-human (but humanoid type) beings (the Greys etc.)
C) have personally been in physical contact with these unexplained non-human beings in one way or another.
While I'm not fond of Forester's research people and presentation skills, his style is explained as basically a non-scientist. He has surrounded himself with those fringe professionals at least willing to discuss and entertain the possibility that there are extraterrestrial beings and they could have interbred with us as the literature throughout history has claimed and these creatures were mislabelled as it were as "angelic beings from the stars".
I am a biologist and research scientist without the onset prejudices of dismissing such hypotheses simply because I have had enough first hand proof of encounters to have the prejudice you carry removed.
Only once a prejudice or falsely claimed "truth" can be overturned in one's fact base can a new proposition of what a situation or item is can be accepted for discussion.
Your ignorance of the topic of extraterrestrials prevents you - or anyone like you poorly educated in that topic (not your fault but you shouldn't comment without proper investigation then) - prevents entering into even to the point of the possibility of what they are claiming. This, at every turn, your natural inclination is to look to discredit the subject rather than looking deeper into the possibility of the claim. A good, sincerely intelligent and unbiased researcher knows this and will leave their prejudices - and with it their ignorance and ego - checked st the door and enter with an open mind.

Reply
Doc Rock
3/2/2018 12:12:18 pm

I would bet a case of good beer that whatever crap Woodward is selling as information from Pete Gregory is not really an accurate rendering of what Gregory said.

I've only met Pete a time or two, but he is a pretty friendly and accessible guy. Very knowledgeable about North American Indian archaeology and ethnohistory.

It would probably be easy to check with him about this. I suspect that his comments will be along the lines of Tiesler's.

Reply
Americanegro
3/2/2018 12:35:47 pm

"Their presence in other elongated skulls argues against this being a genetic trait of Nephilim."

It's really much simpler. The non-existence of Nephilim "argues against this being a genetic trait of Nephilim."

Reply
Machala
3/2/2018 12:42:07 pm

Brien Foerster wouldn't know the difference between a foramen magnum and foramen condyles, if he tripped over them, but if there's a buck to be made, he'll swear that a black crow is a minister.
To call him an Asst. Museum Curator, would be the same as giving a carnival freak show barker, the same title.

Reply
Only Me
3/2/2018 12:46:42 pm

>>He also claims that the openings allowing for nerve and blood vessel attachments for the muscles that control the jaw, the foramen ovales, were missing “and there was no place for them.”<<

As far as genetic traits go, this one would be ludicrous. The lower half of these people's faces would be effectively paralyzed. Their speech would be highly limited and they wouldn't be able to eat solid food. I'm leaning heavily toward the partial fossilization explanation.

Woodward is pretty scummy for misrepresenting Tiesler and, most likely, Gregory and Sackett, too. I guess the publicity was just too good to pass up.

Reply
Kal
3/2/2018 01:42:28 pm

Those skulls are of humans. The ancient people of some places bound babies' heads, probably for rituals. This might even still be present in some very distant tribes. Have these jokers analyzed any modern examples? I am pretty sure there is at least one tribe that still does that, featured in NatGeo some years ago. Then you can compare them with a living descendant, or at least someone copying the look of the older people.

Oh but it has to be space aliens because we (some of the fringe dudes) can't explain it! Let's just ignore the evidence that it is not an alien, because that doesn't support the bizarre opinion their theory contends.

It may even be an abstract way of retreading the 1800s belief in measuring skulls for intelligence, which has been long debunked.

The dude going on about the size of the spinal chord passage doesn't get it. The smaller hole is just that of a smaller person, possibly a child, and therefore smaller. Duh.

Fun speculation though. No science really. And did they get permission for Peru to be messing with ancient skulls? I doubt it.

Reply
Machala
3/2/2018 03:32:47 pm

"...And did they get permission for Peru to be messing with ancient skulls? I doubt it. "

And that, my friend is the CRUX of the matter ! While Marzulli & Co. claim (ed) they had the necessary imprimaturs from the Peruvian authorities, it isn't true - hence the reason that they had to skirt certain "issues" by using the exemplar skulls from the collection in Foerster's private pseudo-museum.
While there was some 'cola' money paid, surreptitiously, to a few low level locals, it is very telling that there were NO real Peruvian scientists or Government officials involved in the project. None !
Furthermore, there was absolutely NO consultation or discussion with indigenous people or individuals involved with the preservation of archeological and cultural heritage.
I doubt that this omission was done out of ignorance or zeal.
Marzulli and his partners in crime are operating on very shaky ground in Peru and Ecuador. I think that's one of the reasons he cut Foerster loose from the project.

Reply
Rich
5/10/2018 12:35:23 pm

You ad homonim attack is unwarranted. Forester has gained credibility locally as a tour guide and businessman in Peru and this carries some credible weight locally. Regardless to the fact he isn't a professional in biological studies and research, the hot topic of "alien genetics" prevents his access to many scientists that are otherwise normalized to be prejudicial against it for fear of professional repercussions from their employers who are typically ignorant or are fearful themselves to speak out.
Ignorance to a topic like extraterrestrial life on Earth is the most common explanation to those seeking to immediately disparage Forester's findings and opinions rather than honest scientific investigation into the possibility that, indeed, he may be right! I am both a degreed research biologist that can challenge his findings as well as accept the possibility that he is correct simply because I am not instead prejudiced to the possibility of extraterrestrials as I have corroborated their existence on Earth as one shall we say who has had the "fortune" of proof personally.
Prejudice due to lack of knowledge (aka ignorance) is a natural human trait . Propagating the ignorance to support one's prejudice is another..

Americanegro
3/2/2018 05:22:15 pm

Please to be explaining the mechanism for a circular hole in a bone to get bigger.

Reply
V
3/4/2018 04:32:18 pm

The same way the bones themselves get bigger: bones are living tissue and do in fact get larger as the human body grows. The physical diameter of the eye sockets in a child's skull--other holes in bone--is smaller than that of an adult's.

Other possible mechanisms in living beings include disease processes such as osteoperosis and cranial surgery. Other mechanisms after death include saws and erosion. ...for that matter, a certain level of erosion can happen in LIVING tissue, too; it does on teeth and in joints (or I wouldn't be having the problems I do with stairs!)

Americanegro
3/4/2018 05:50:44 pm

I might have made the same mistake but I didn't. The eye socket is NOT a hole in a bone. It is in fact SEVEN bones. If A bone around A hole in THE bone grows, shouldn't the hole get smaller rather than larger?

Carl T. Feagans link
3/2/2018 03:17:22 pm

Great work, Jason. I've been pondering how to say nearly exactly what you've so eloquently put together above. I've started a couple of the videos these guys have made once or twice and had to shut them off each time because of the outright ignorance and nonsensical conclusions that have preceded every bit of their work.

I keep thinking I'd love to have access to the skulls themselves to take genuine, meaningful measurements and look at the features they describe up close. I've said over and over on posts of my own some of the same things you're saying above, particularly about the fusing of the sutures.

The instances of prognathism and mandibular deformation are a well-documented side effect of the process of shaping the cranium.

And the distance of the foramen magnum to the back of the skull would be irrelevant. Is that why they keep saying its in the wrong place? Every time I see one of their photos with this pictured, the foraman magnum looks right. The back of the skull is one of the places where bone material is being pulled from to give the skull it's new shape.

Is there any place where Marzulli et al are listing quantifiable metrics like measurements?

Reply
Jason Colavito link
3/2/2018 04:22:46 pm

In the video, Woodward shows how they measured. Basically, the back of the skull being squished in, the foramen magnum looked superficially like it was too close to the back of the skull because they assumed that the back of the base of the skull doesn't change shape. So they measured from the center of the palate (I think--I don't feel like watching again!) to the center of the foramen magnum and found it is 1 cm longer than in a normal skull. But they didn't account for the changes to the face and jaw, which is where the measurements get thrown off.

Reply
Jim
3/2/2018 04:49:17 pm

I would like to know how they established normal.
One centimeter is pretty small, only about one smarty thick.

Jim
3/2/2018 04:51:19 pm

oops, "Smartie"

Americanegro
3/5/2018 01:21:08 pm

Worst Halloween candy ever. Just give me a razor blade instead.

Matt
3/3/2018 08:20:22 pm

Almost 500 views (as at March 4). Assuming some of them are curious readers of this blog, I'd say he isn't exactly setting YouTube alight with this video. Though it is about 100x more views than it deserves.

Reply
Matt
3/3/2018 08:22:55 pm

OK so I looked at the "Likes" total not the views total. With those research abilities I've decided it's time for me to get into fringe archaeology.

Reply
Jim
3/3/2018 09:00:25 pm

If you need a degree or five for your bio, you can get them at Mickie Mouse University,,,,,, er, sorry, Pacific International University, the same place Marzulli was awarded an honorary doctorate by his buddy/mentor for writing the fictional Nephilim Trilogy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_International_University

Jim
3/3/2018 09:29:19 pm

By the way, this was the Pacific International University's president:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Baugh

"Baugh has claimed several college degrees, at one point professing to earning three doctorates, when no evidence exists that he even graduated from high school."

V
3/4/2018 04:35:15 pm

...okay, so based on the logic presented by Woodward, Chinese women who underwent foot-binding are a different "subspecies" and cubical watermelons are also a subspecies...despite, in both cases, a plethora of documented evidence of precisely how the changes to the bone happen.

Not to mention, the earlobes of people who wear plugs instead of earrings and the neck-lengthening of some peoples, as well.

Reply
Machala
3/4/2018 05:09:21 pm

Following Woodward's logic, would he call the Mayans a "subspecies" because they hung a stone with tied with a piece of string between their baby's eyes to achieve crossed eyes, and used boards to flatten and elongate the baby's skull ?
In Niger, being grossly overweight is a sign of beauty and the Maasai consider blackened gums and tongues really chic. Are they, likewise "subcultures" ?

Reply
Americanegro
3/4/2018 05:52:26 pm

"people who wear plugs instead of earrings"

Not a subspecies, just dicks.

Jim
3/4/2018 06:39:46 pm

People with scars and tattoos are from a different subspecies.

Rich
5/10/2018 12:48:10 pm

I'm no fan of the presenters but you guys are just as bad- the "it's so stupid to be true so let's discount it all club".
Look, I get it- lots of holes in the theory and attack the person as an idiot is compelling- but it distracts from far more of the back story that has drawn these people -and many other far more credible professionals - into the debate of extraterrestrial visitation and genetic intervention in the past even to this day.
Much like the women who were (actually until the me too movement still are) ignored for crying rape, people ignore or twist the story to fit their own conclusions to justify denying it happened. Instead, as one who is completely confident extraterrestrials exist due to verified cases I am personally aware of (let's just leave it at that shall we?) , while I find Forester's work sloppy, it is still compelling enough to be investigated by researchers with better credentials.
Check your prejudices - and egos- at the door.

Peter Daughtrey
3/7/2018 05:51:28 pm

There remains a mystery. What explanation is there for similar ancient skulls being discovered on different continents and an island? Namely Egypt, South America and Malta.

Reply
Carl T. Feagans link
3/7/2018 06:01:25 pm

I should think the explanation is much the same for why people on different continents wear jewelry, paint themselves, or practice tattooing.

Reply
Peter Daughtrey
3/12/2018 07:43:32 pm

Sorry Carl, you cannot compare the things we do that are driven by the basic sexual urge we all have to make ourselves more attractiv hade with the weird practice of binding babies heads with boards ...Maybe the fact that several Egyptian Pharaohs and Queen Nefertiti had extendec skulls had something to with it?

Conan O'Brian's Nipple
3/13/2018 11:25:08 pm

It's like you don't understand the difference about tattooing. It's not (traditionally) about making oneself attractive any more than circumcision or the more barbaric clitoridectomy is. It's a body modification (permanent unlike jewelry or face painting or a nice fedora) that tells a story/history or identifies group allegiance.

You might want to look at the ReSearch issue on body modification or failing that, google Manwoman Canada Swastika.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=r5KoWu_-H_LD_Qaaz7jIBA&q=ReSearch+Body+Modification&oq=ReSearch+Body+Modification&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.2.15623.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.2qXAjfEYUuU

https://www.google.com/search?q=Manwoman+Canada+Swastika&oq=Manwoman+Canada+Swastika&aqs=chrome..69i57.872j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Jim
3/7/2018 11:49:38 pm

Marzulli interview alert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rkI_uhjp_U

Marzulli interviews his pet Md, Dr. Michael Alday.
Starts at about the 26:30 mark.
Not a lot of substance, Alday comes across just as incompetent as Woodward did. He mentions Easter Island and megolithic structures saying "there probably still are are giants, we just, you know, we just haven't found them yet.".
Claims if head-boarding etc. was used we should see ridges and scarring formations where the sagittal suture normally is, compares it to what happens when when bones are broken, and then heal.
Alday, on why he thinks this may be a new species: "I'm really impressed with the dna you know evidence showing there's mixtures, you know it's not the pure race they thought it was you know is there some mixture going on way back with Middle eastern, European bloodlines, um, but you know, when you really look at the skulls and they look so different, and you can't imagine that and we can't physiologically explain that this is from cranial deformation."
He then carries on with hybrid species, fallen angel crap.

Where does Marzulli come up with these "experts" ?

Reply
Jim
3/8/2018 12:14:44 am

Almost forgot, more crap stating they must be "long necks".

Reply
Sunder
2/11/2019 03:26:51 am

Perhaps mitochondrial DNA sequence has already given some clues on the maternal origin of some test subjects. Hope comparative genomic DNA sequence information would shed more light on the so called physical anomalies of these skulls.

Reply
Matthew
10/29/2021 01:56:14 am

I read blogs like this about as critically as most people should probably read the scientific literature they cite in them but somehow never seem to.

A simple critical read of most of the counter argument bearing academic literature you've posted betrays the really poor quality of science, if it can even be called that, that has been actually done on this topic.

For example, Christine White's paper makes numerous assumptions for which there is no proof: that these "deformed" skulls even show any evidence of binding. She mentions Sagittal syntosis in way that immediately establishes her thesis: that head binding produces sagittal syntosis. Then immediately says that "The undeformed members of the population also exhibit an abnormally high frequency of sagittal synostosis, but a significantly lower frequency than the deformed sample."

Hm... seems like somebody is making some shit up and hoping her academic advisors don't actually read this too carefully.

Because if sagittal syntosis is present in the unmodified population, then head binding as an explanation does nothing to account for its presence here, even in "deformed" samples. In fact, what this suggests to me is that the population here had this trait as a genetic allomorph. And probably interbred with other populations, producing a population with diverse traits.

Here's a question for Professor White: Why are there literally thousands upon thousands of legitimately deformed skulls, for which we are absolutely certain head binding was performed, in which absolutely no sagittal syntosis what-so-ever has occurred?
Maybe it's because this paper is a joke and professor White really ought to just go sell cars or something!

Bad academic paper to use if you're arguing against the other homonid idea; it basically argues against its own point.

Why is it that every skeptic on the internet is really good at dismantling fringe ideas, but terrible at taking five minutes to read the abstract of a scientific paper?
I mean, the point of science is that you're SUPPOSED to immediately have a "This is total crap!" bias when you begin reading it. That's why once upon a time we had calculus and physics. Because critical thinking was a skill that was actually practiced in school: we read things and we didn't just believe it because some dude with Ph.D. after his name wrote it.

Now we have queer gender theory and it's no surprise why. Academia is largely a pay to play joke these days.

The rest of the articles you post as debunking the ideas here do nothing to convince me either. I could write a criticism of every one of them just like this one.

Where you are most convincing, you are simply attacking the character of a religious dude who openly believes in giants and clearly has a bias to believe in these skulls being all weird.
Of course, I'm not convinced, because I took 3 years of biological anthropology on the way to my BS and I happen to know a thing or two about skulls. Personally, those look like a different species of man to me.
And you know... If you put a homo erectus skull in front of me in a room full of homonin skulls, I'd still be able to identify it and tell you why within a few minutes.

Also the cerebral volume and additional foramen toward the back of the skull: head binding will not do these things. Find a single example of any evidence of this what-so-ever. Those are definitely genetic traits. Yes this is opinion. But it is a very non-biased opinion from a knowledgeable, educated dude who would like to believe they're just smashed heads.

I don't mean to criticize you, the author; you seem like a very brilliant thinker and your writing is excellent. But for the love of god, read the scientific literature you post supporting your ideas before you post it. It's painful for me when I read something like this and it starts to convince me, only for me to read a little deeper the citations you use and see that they're totally worthless in supporting the argument you're making.

Whether or not they have degrees, several bad arguments do not equal one good argument.

And if these people think these skulls were bound: it is THEIR burden to PROVE that.
The evidence actually doesn't suggest it beyond "Later mayan people totally practiced head binding in the priest class!"

Also I might ask--why did later Maya practice this? Was it maybe because once upon a time, long long ago, maybe some very respected people with crazy cone heads walked among other early americans?

Well, in the legends of many nations, this is said to be true. In my opinion, it's pretty eurocentric of "science" to not show any interest whatsoever in exploring the legitimacy of this idea. It's pretty much immediately dismissed without any serious thought, and not because there legitimately isn't anything to explore or think about.

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    • The Antediluvian Pyramid Myth
    • Whitewashing American Prehistory
    • James Dean's Cursed Porsche
  • The Library
    • Ancient Mysteries >
      • Ancient Texts >
        • Mesopotamian Texts >
          • Eridu Genesis
          • Atrahasis Epic
          • Epic of Gilgamesh
          • Kutha Creation Legend
          • Babylonian Creation Myth
          • Descent of Ishtar
          • Resurrection of Marduk
          • Berossus
          • Comparison of Antediluvian Histories
        • Egyptian Texts >
          • The Shipwrecked Sailor
          • Dream Stela of Thutmose IV
          • The Papyrus of Ani
          • Classical Accounts of the Pyramids
          • Inventory Stela
          • Manetho
          • Eratosthenes' King List
          • The Story of Setna
          • Leon of Pella
          • Diodorus on Egyptian History
          • On Isis and Osiris
          • Famine Stela
          • Old Egyptian Chronicle
          • The Book of Sothis
          • Horapollo
          • Al-Maqrizi's King List
        • Teshub and the Dragon
        • Hermetica >
          • The Three Hermeses
          • Kore Kosmou
          • Corpus Hermeticum
          • The Asclepius
          • The Emerald Tablet
          • Hermetic Fragments
          • Prologue to the Kyranides
          • The Secret of Creation
          • Ancient Alphabets Explained
          • Prologue to Ibn Umayl's Silvery Water
          • Book of the 24 Philosophers
          • Aurora of the Philosophers
        • Hesiod's Theogony
        • Periplus of Hanno
        • Zoroastrian Fatal Winter
        • Ctesias' Indica
        • Sanchuniathon
        • Sima Qian
        • Syncellus's Enoch Fragments
        • The Book of Enoch
        • Slavonic Enoch
        • Sepher Yetzirah
        • Fragments of Artapanus
        • Tacitus' Germania
        • De Dea Syria
        • Aelian's Various Histories
        • Julius Africanus' Chronography
        • Fragments of Bruttius
        • Eusebius' Chronicle
        • Chinese Accounts of Rome
        • Ancient Chinese Automaton
        • The Orphic Argonautica
        • Fragments of Panodorus
        • Annianus on the Watchers
        • The Watchers and Antediluvian Wisdom
      • Medieval Texts >
        • Medieval Legends of Ancient Egypt >
          • Medieval Pyramid Lore
          • John Malalas on Ancient Egypt
          • Fragments of Abenephius
          • Akhbar al-zaman
          • Ibrahim ibn Wasif Shah
          • Murtada ibn al-‘Afif
          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
          • Al-Suyuti on the Pyramids
        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
        • Byzantine World Chronicle
        • Isidore of Seville
        • Book of Liang: Fusang
        • Chronicle to 724
        • Agobard on Magonia
        • Pseudo-Diocles Fragmentum
        • Book of Thousands
        • Voyage of Saint Brendan
        • Power of Art and of Nature
        • Travels of Sir John Mandeville
        • Yazidi Revelation and Black Book
        • Al-Biruni on the Great Flood
        • Voyage of the Zeno Brothers
        • The Kensington Runestone (Hoax)
        • Islamic Discovery of America
        • Popol Vuh
        • The Aztec Creation Myth
      • Lost Civilizations >
        • Atlantis >
          • Plato's Atlantis Dialogues >
            • Timaeus
            • Critias
          • Fragments on Atlantis
          • Panchaea: The Other Atlantis
          • Eumalos on Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Gómara on Atlantis
          • Atlantis as Biblical History
          • Sardinia and Atlantis
          • Atlantis and Nimrod
          • Santorini and Atlantis
          • The Mound Builders and Atlantis
          • Donnelly's Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Morocco
          • Atlantis and Hanno's Periplus
          • Atlantis and the Sea Peoples
          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
          • Amazing New Light (Hoax)
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • History of Paleontology
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • Arabic Names of Egyptian Kings
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • America Known to the Ancients
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Remarkable Discoveries Within the Sphinx (Hoax)
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • The Shaver Mystery >
          • Lovecraft and the Deros
          • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • CIA Search for the Ark of the Covenant
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • The Fall of the Sky
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Poltergeist UFOs
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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