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Mary Magdalene in Eastern and Western Church Lore

1/28/2015

32 Comments

 
Yesterday we heard from Scott Wolter that he believes that St. John the Less did not exist and was in fact Mary Magdalene, whom the Church replaced with an imaginary man. It’s interesting that Wolter’s ideas about the Magdalene are based on medieval French myths that sought to explain the veneration of her in the area around Aix, but that he has very little understanding of them or their development, nor the way they were massaged and altered to support the idea that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married. 
I learned today that there is a much older tradition that Mary Magdalene married St. John the Evangelist at the Wedding at Cana, a story that dates back to the thirteenth century and originates in an older Byzantine legend that the wedding was that of John. Any attempt to look for “evidence” of a Holy Bloodline needs to account for how it is that the Orthodox Church had a completely different myth of the Magdalene. As we know from Modestus (Photius, Biblioteca 275), the Orthodox Church maintained that the Magdalene lived out her life in Ephesus and died there, and it was the Greeks who argued that she did so because that was where St. John abandoned her after their wedding. In the Dark Ages, the Western Church agreed, as we know from Gregory of Tours (In gloria martyrum 1.30), who lived and wrote in what is now France and knew only the story that Mary Magdalene lay in Ephesus.

The question of why France became obsesses with Mary Magdalene is an interesting one, and one I’m not entirely sure I understand. Differences emerged when the Western Church, following Gregory the Great but particularly after Odo of Cluny in the tenth century, identified many of the various women of the New Testament—Mary of Bethany, Mary Magdalene, the “sinner”—as Mary Magdalene, while the Eastern Church held that they were different women. Thus, in the Greek East, Mary Magdalene was never a very important figure, simply one of many women. But in the Latin West, because all of these women were thought to be the same, she had a larger impact.

I know that the ninth century French monk Christian of Stavelot (Christianus Druthmarus) is an important figure in the development of the modern Magdalene myth since he wrote that she was an apostle and evangelist, thus feeding directly into Wolter’s belief that she was the apostle hiding behind the name St. John the Less. Unfortunately, while I know this from secondary sources, I am not familiar with Christian’s works to know where he said this. Medieval hagiography depicts the Magdalene as Christ’s apostle down to the Reformation, at which point the version of the story Wolter knows and opposes emerges. The supposed cover-up he senses is partially true in that the Church of the Reformation period did try to downgrade the Magdalene. But the same Church had also venerated her for centuries before that!

It is only after the tenth century, though, that the Magdalene legend really blooms, and part of that is due to the relic trade. We know from Sigebert of Gembloux, in the Chronicon sive Chronographia of 1111 or 1112 CE, that in 745 bones said to belong to Mary Magdalene were removed from Aix, where she supposedly died after decades of solitude (a story imported from the third century account of Mary of Egypt), to Vézelay. Whether this actually occurred is less important than the evidence it provides that multiple places in France claimed to hold the bones of the Magdalene, in direct opposition to the Eastern tradition that they had not left Ephesus until Emperor Leo VI removed them and took them to Constantinople in the late 800s. Leo’s translation of Mary is recorded by John Zonaras (Extracts of History 3.143) in the twelfth century and George Kedrenos in his Compendium of History in the eleventh century. Obviously, this causes a bit of a problem, since choosing one legend or the other demands that we declare the other wrong—but on what grounds? Frankly, there’s no good evidence to accept either of them as anything more than medieval fantasy.

But the fact that the French (or, more accurately, Provençal) tradition can’t be traced back before 1100 CE, while the Ephesus version goes back to last Antiquity or the Dark Ages, strongly implies that there is no truth to it. Worse, if Mary Magdalene’s preservation of the Holy Bloodline in France was so big a secret, why would the all-powerful Church have sponsored so many churches dedicated the Magdalene and allowed the publication of hagiographies telling everyone she moved to France when there was a perfectly acceptable and widely believed alternative that would have kept the secret much better hidden? 
32 Comments
McSion Descendant
1/28/2015 06:01:54 am

Susan Haskins, Mary Magdalene and the Kings of France
http://www.historytoday.com/susan-haskins/mary-magdalen-and-kings-france

Reply
McSion Descendant
1/28/2015 06:06:07 am

Article pasted on Fortean Times Message Board, click to expand

http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/mary-magdalen-and-the-kings-of-france.27154/#post-648850

Reply
Lurker Uncloaking
1/28/2015 06:56:53 am

Here is a link to the article open to all:

http://magdalhnh.blogspot.com/2009/01/mary-magdalen-and-kings-of-france.html

Reply
Kal
1/28/2015 08:38:48 am

I'd guess it was confusion. In ancient Isreal, Mary was as common a name as Sarah or Brittney is today. Een in the Scriptures, there are three Marys in the New Testament gospels. One of Mary Mother of Jesus, another Mary, of Magedeline (her location in Sumar, the Samaritan story and the Well story, and the 'other Mary' who might have been the woman nearly stoned to death for adultery, but that woman is not said to be her until well after the Canonization and the Mycean council.

The Mary that evangelized does come later, as the all Male oriented early Church post Roman times didn't like women being in charge and figured no woman could be an apostle. It's very posible Magdeline is that apostle, but she is not Jesus' wife. She is likely the wife of one of the other apostles, Paul maybe.

The later Rennaisance painting by da Vinci everyone is or was crowing over is an interpretation of the Last Supper, as though they're all Romans, and is not a factual picture or depiction. It is a guess!

da Vinci didn't know even what they looked like. He took waht he knew and used it.

The table is even wrong, as it's an Italian style table with what appears to be chairs around it, in a full square. In ancient Isreal, in ruins, they found actual tables from the time period, and they were l shaped low tables. You could not sit in chairs at them. You'd have to sit on the floor on a pillow. This whole mysterious leaning John is all in their heads. da Vinci probably was just being poetic and had no special secret meaning in mind.



Reply
Bob Jase
1/28/2015 12:01:35 pm

Just ofhand, if you really want to see something different in a version of the Last Supper check out some of the Peruvian versions which feature guinea pig as the main course.

Reply
V
1/29/2015 08:52:16 am

Actually, there is an argument that Mary Magdalene was unmarried--either a spinster or a widow. Unlike other women in the Bible, who are referred to with an indication of their relationship to a man--such as "Mary, Mother of Jesus" or "Mary, wife of Joseph,"--Mary Magdalene is referred to as "Mary of Magdala." That indicates she didn't have a man to whom she was closely associated. If she'd been married to Paul, she likely would have been referred to as "Mary, wife of Paul." Or "Mary, wife of Jesus."

I don't remember the citations for where I heard this, but I found it more compelling as evidence drawn from multiple sources than "he kissed her on the" and we have no idea what, since it could be "lips" or "cheek" or "nose" or "foot" or even "arse." (I tend to favor "cheeks" as kissing a woman on the cheeks as one would, at the time, kiss one's male acquaintances would elevate Mary to equality with the men, and since that's what that particular set of fragments claims about her, it's somewhat more reasonable to assume it was "cheeks" rather than "lips," which would actually have DOWNgraded her to "Jesus' helpmeet" rather than "Jesus' disciple.")

As for the leaning in the da Vinci Last Supper, there's actually a very good reason for it. If you look on the other side, there's a nearly identical lean away of the figure in yellow; it's just somewhat disguised by the raising of hands in denial. This isolates Jesus and makes him the focal point of the image. It also helps to heighten the perspective by letting you see a fuller glimpse of the windows, and perspective was the new big trick at the time!

Reply
Americanegro
8/22/2016 01:43:34 pm

"In ancient Isreal, Mary was as common a name as Mary is today."

Fixed it for you.

Reply
Americanegro
8/22/2016 01:51:10 pm

"It's very posible Magdeline is that apostle, but she is not Jesus' wife. She is likely the wife of one of the other apostles, Paul maybe."

Do you see the ENORMOUS problem with that?

Reply
expat link
1/28/2015 10:55:32 am

The legend of the arrival of Mary Magdalene (along with Mary Salomé and Mary Jacobe) is the root of the town Saintes Maries de la Mer in the Camargue. Now the focus of an annual gypsy pilgrimage and a really beautiful place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer

Reply
Scott Hamilton
1/29/2015 01:47:32 am

Does anyone know of a good book that covers the history of the idea that there's a suppressed "Sacred Feminine" behind western civilization? It's a thread you see quite a lot in certain sectors of fringe society (Bloodline believers, Wicca) despite the lack of historical evidence. Surely someone has surveyed it.

Reply
McSion Descendant
1/29/2015 01:55:40 am

The Goddess was strongly discussed in the articles of Quest Magazine during the early 1980s, edited by Marian Green.

The idea goes back to Gerald Gardner, the creator of modern witchcraft.

Reply
McSion Descendant
1/29/2015 01:56:39 am

There's also Robert Graves, The White Goddess.

McSion Descendant
1/29/2015 02:43:05 am

I haven't read it myself --- Ronald Hutton, The Triumph of the Moon: A History of Modern Pagan Witchcraft (Oxford University Press, 1999)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triumph_of_the_Moon

EP
1/29/2015 02:51:39 am

Graves is closer to being a proponent of the idea, rather than its historian.

I think that what you need to look at is what is known as the "Goddess Movement".

I would recommend two books by Cynthia Eller: "Gentlemen and Amazons" and "The Myth of Matriarchal Prehistory". Or, if you have access to them, some of her articles.

Scott Hamilton
1/29/2015 03:35:23 am

Thanks for the suggestions. Cynthia Eller looks close to what I'm looking for, though I'm less interested in the political implications that seem to be a large part of Myth of Patriarchal History. But maybe that's unavoidable.

EP
1/29/2015 03:39:03 am

Hutton's book is more specifically on witchcraft, as opposed to the "Sacred Feminine". Though the two are certainly intertwined, they are separate both in their orignis and in their defining principles.

If you're interested in the history of witchcraft and paganism, however, Hutton's work is really, really good.

EP
1/29/2015 03:41:18 am

Scott, what do you mean by "political implications"?

McSion Descendant
1/29/2015 04:00:04 am

Here's another title

Paul Reid-Bowen, Goddess as Nature: Towards a Philosophical Thealogy, Ashgate Publishing Limited, 2007.

Scott Hamilton
1/29/2015 04:05:57 am

EP, I mean all the stuff about whether or not the theory of "Matriarchal Prehistory" is damaging to feminism, mentioned in every synopsis of the book, including the publisher's. I'm more interested in the straight archeology, and how it's been interpreted or used. Whether it's damaging/helpful to any political philosophy is of much less interest to me.

EP
1/29/2015 04:15:12 am

@ Scott: That's what I thought you meant. I think those aspects, to the extent they are really there, are detachable.

@ McScion: That's not a history book either. It's an attempt to copcetualize "Sacred Feminine" within a traditional theological framework.

Alaric
1/29/2015 05:56:18 pm

I think it predates Gardner. I think Andrew Lang and H. Rider Haggard had some ideas along those lines. Doesn't it ultimately go back to Johann Jakob Bachofen in the 19th century?

McSion Descendant
1/30/2015 02:31:07 am

Thanks very much for the info about Johann Jakob Bachofen, much appreciated.

Of course, anthropological theory and wicca practice are two different things.

EP
1/29/2015 03:08:20 am

Also, if you're interested in Mary Magdalene specifically, Bart D. Ehrman (the preeminent "secularist" Biblical scholar in the world, arguably) wrote a book with a self-explanatory title: "Truth and Fiction in The Da Vinci Code".

Reply
Tracy
1/29/2015 05:47:52 am

"When God Was A Woman" by Merlin Stone (1978)
"The Chalice and the Blade" by Riane Eisler (1988)

Reply
EP
1/29/2015 12:12:08 pm

Those are both along the lines of Graves, except not as good.

EP
1/29/2015 02:55:13 am

Jason, if you're interested in Christian of Staveot, his works (in particular, his commentaries on the Gospel of Matthew) are available online in the original Latin:

http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/30_10_0850-0850-_Christianus_Druthmarus.html

Christian, btw, is also an important figure in the prehistory of some of the other fringe myths (giants, Gog & Magog, etc.).

Reply
John
1/30/2015 07:31:40 am

Who is St. John the Less? There is a James the Less and a James the Greater, one an apostle, the other the leader of the Church in Jersusalem. There is only one St. John- the apostle/evangalist, someoimes also considered the author of the last book of the Bible and usually thought of as the only apostle to die a natural death although supposedly Domitian tried to kill him in the Colloseum. Some think the apostle John did not do all of these things and that there were several different people but I have never heard any called John the Less. The only other John is John the Baptist. There are a lot of Marys, two James, a Jude and a Judas but only one John since the Baptizer is already dead by that time.

Reply
Dave Lewis
1/30/2015 03:11:22 pm

A number of stories about the Magdalene are collected in "The Golden Legend" compiled by Jacobus de Voragine (c. 1230 – July 13 or July 16, 1298). My edition says it was first published in 1470.

Reply
McSion Descendant
1/30/2015 07:20:32 pm

That's where it mentions that Mary Magdalene was traditionally believed to have been married to St John.

For a good decade the Jesus Bloodliners used Jacobus de Voraigne as "proof".

Reply
Dora
3/2/2015 10:44:24 am

Jason, about France obsessed with MM: Sarah Wilkins explained in her paper the role of Angevins in promoting her for their own political reasons, adopting her as patron saint of their dynasty, in order to agrandise themselves, etc. Later there were efforts of pious friars who fanned the cult when it started to diminish: they published pamphlets etc. her popularity is result of strong promotion https://escholarship.org/uc/item/7pz6w018#page-4

Reply
JaredMithrandir link
4/21/2019 10:17:42 pm

But Anjou was in northern France.

Mary being a figure of Angevin propaganda actually supports the ideas that the Holy Grail was often an allegory for her. The Second Grail Romance written, Wolfram's, was definitely allegorically Agnevin propaganda.

This reverence for Mary certainly didn't make them any more Feminist then anyone else. Fulk V actively opposed allowing Mellisande to rule in her own right.

Reply
JaredMithrandir link
4/21/2019 09:25:02 pm

We know that after the sack of Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade the Relics of Lazarus held that in city (which used to be on Cyprus) were taken to Southern France. Low and behold decades later a tradition that Lazarus actually traveled there developed.

Magdalene is the only one Southern France Apostle who seems to have already been associated with that region before the Fourth Crusade. However we know that the 2nd Century Christianity Community of Lyon was founded by Christians who migrated there from Asia Minor, for example Ireneus the first Bishop of Lyon was a student of Polycarp of Snymna, later claimed to be a student of the John who supposedly die din Ephesus. So the legacy of Mary moving from Ephesus to Lyon could be explained by that. Particularly if this community included people who claimed biological descent from her.

If Wolter is claiming there are places in The Bible were the name John originally refereed to Mary that I would view as wrong. But I do think that the Beloved Disciple is Mary not John base don my careful study of John 11 and the the Crucifixion account. And related to that I think Polycrates reference to a John in Ephesus was originally Mary but that Eusebius changed it when he quoted the letter in his history.

Which is why I want to find in English exactly what Gregory of Tours said, because some reference make it sound like he refers to Mary Magdalene and the Virgin Mary but not John being in Ephesus.

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