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More Mary Magdalene, Plus Harry Hubbard and the Ark of the Covenant

1/8/2014

38 Comments

 
Before we begin today, Harry Hubbard of Alexander Helios contacted me to dispute reports that he used to be an ancient astronaut theorist. Hubbard says that such reports, published by Richard D. Flavin, are incorrect and that Flavin is attempting to libel him. Hubbard said worse, but I have removed references to UFOs from my discussion of him in my review of America Unearthed S02E05 in keeping with his assertion that this material is wrong. Here is the non-libelous portion of Hubbard’s message that I am able to print:

I admit, the episode was less than cheesy, but you have to know, Scott nor myself had anything to do with the final edit.  This often pisses Scott off as they frequently stage finds, false truths and such.  However, let me be clear to you and anyone who bothers to read your blog...  For the past 20 years, we have maintained that Burrows Cave is indeed the lost Ptolemaic Dynasty including Alexander the Great and Cleopatra....and so many idiots wonder what the connection is there, but they are history buffs.  During this time, no one, the world over has proven us wrong!  You and others can say what you wish, print what you desire, but you can't prove us wrong.  Bummer ain't it?  

What kind of contract does Committee Films have Scott Wolter locked into? Also “prove us wrong” isn’t really an argument. I have said in jest “unicorns are real.” Prove me wrong.

That said, Hubbard has offered to answer questions about the show and his cave, so if you have questions you would like to see him answer, let me know in the comments below.


Now on to today’s news.

Many of you have probably seen the “new” information about the location of the Ark of the Covenant making the media rounds today. The information comes from a Hebrew text called the Massekhet Kelim that articles have been a bit cagey about revealing is a medieval text, not a genuinely ancient record from the time of the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem. The text describes the concealing of the Temple treasures as Nebuchadnezzar conquers the city, and as such is not entirely dissimilar to other accounts, like the apocryphal stories of Jeremiah concealing the Ark on Mt. Nebo (2 Maccabees 2:4–7).

The Massekhet Kelim states that the Ark is the possession of angels and the other treasures in a tower in Baghdad, which really ought to have shown up on Ancient Aliens. We all “know” that angels are aliens and that the Ark is an alien communication device. But ancient astronaut theorists aren’t too keen on primary sources.

Contrary to media reports, the text is not “new” in any sense other than the publication of a complete English translation. The Hebrew text has been in print since 1648, and a French translation has been available for the last half century or so. The book’s contents have been discussed continuously since 1648, and its most interesting feature is the fact that it claims that the Temple vessels were listed on a copper (or bronze) tablet, which echoes the famous Copper Scroll found at Qumran, which also listed the Temple vessels on a metal sheet. Most scholars believe that the Massekhet Kelim author independently struck upon the idea of recording important information on metal.

No one translated the text into English before now because, apparently, scholars didn’t see much value in a medieval legend. A similar fate befell the late Antique Orphic Argonautica, which also lacked an English translation until the twenty-first century because nineteenth and twentieth century scholars didn’t see any value in it. In fact, Arthur Platt called “dreary” and others said much worse—“worthless” was a common-enough Victorian descriptor. A Greek gentlemen produced an eccentric and somewhat uneven translation in 2005 to support a fringe theory that the Argonauts sailed to America; my own translation is much closer to the source text.
 
It actually surprised me how many texts have never been translated for whatever reason. I thought you might be interested in seeing another of these untranslated gems. Today’s translation again covers some of the Holy Bloodline conspiracy material and is the oldest text to suggest that Mary Magdalene lived in France after the Crucifixion. A partial translation of one sentence from the passage below was published in the 1950s, but so far as I know the entire paragraph has not been fully translated.

The text comes from Sigebert of Gembloux in the Chronicon sive Chronographia, a year-by-year chronology written around 1111 or 1112. This is a section of the entry for the year 745:

A persecution having arisen after the stoning of Stephen protomartyr, Maximinus, one of the seventy disciples of Christ, crossing to Gaul, took Mary Magdalene with him. And he came to the city of Aix, over which he presided, and where he died and was buried. Verily, the city of Aix was despoiled by the Saracens, so the body of Mary herself was transferred by Gerard, count of Burgundy, to the monastery of Vézelay, which had been constructed by him. And yet some people write that this woman rests in Ephesus, having no covering over her.

The final line refers to Gregory of Tours in his In gloria martyrum 1.30, where he writes an unexplained line that “In this city [Ephesus] Mary Magdalene rests, having no covering over her” (my trans.). You’ll notice that Sigebert favored conservation of text, closely paraphrasing Gregory at the end and possibly at the beginning also Cosmas, describing the flight of Matthew after the stoning of Stephen. Both were sixth-century authors.

A few decades later, Modestus of Constantinople explained in the early 600s that Mary Magdalene had moved in with St. John in Ephesus and died there a martyr (Photius, Biblioteca 275). In case anyone would like to follow the evidence to its logical conclusion, Modestus also wrote that Mary Magdalene died a virgin. Sorry, Holy Bloodline believers: You’ll have to explain why the “ancient texts” tell a different story.

Byzantine writers maintained that the body of Mary Magdalene had been buried in Ephesus. In 886, her alleged bones were transferred by Emperor Leo VI to Constantinople and venerated there. This remains the tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Church, which of course fringe writers dismiss because it is weird and eastern.

Western Christians began to identify Mary Magdalene with southern France in the High Middle Ages. We know it cannot have been earlier since Gregory, who otherwise is credulous of saintly myths and the glories of Gaul, agrees with the Byzantines on Mary’s location, something that he could not have done had there been a royally-approved, popular tradition of Mary Magdalene in southern France.

As the tale grew, at first the story was only that the body of Mary Magdalene had been transferred to Aix, just as the Byzantines claimed to have moved the body to Constantinople. This was entirely in keeping with the cult of the saints and the competition among medieval cities to host spectacular relics for the veneration (and cash contribution) of pilgrims. Three different centers all claimed relics of Mary, and as they competed to attract pilgrims (and money!) they told increasingly elaborate stories about Mary. Now she was alive when she came to France, doing penance in the wilderness around Aix. When Sigebert wrote, he was essentially adjudicating between the competing claims of Aix and Vézelay by explaining how the older tale about Mary at Aix could be true while still promoting Vézelay’s claim on pilgrims’ time and money. To do so, he also needed to impugn the famous work of Gregory of Tours.

This new version, after a bit more growth and change, became the received Roman Catholic tradition, enshrined in the famous Golden Legend on the lives of the saints.


In short, there is no evidence of Mary Magdalene in France before the High Middle Ages, and there is an even older tradition of her in Ephesus that directly contradicts the Holy Bloodline Conspiracy claims.

38 Comments
Fantasy History Watcher
1/8/2014 06:17:25 am

"Mary Magdalene died a virgin"

In the Gospel of Philip, Mary Magdalene is described as an angel and barren - so, if Mary Magdalene and Jesus Christ did klss each other on the lips - so what?

Reply
Fantasy History Watcher
1/8/2014 06:32:05 am

Translation of "Massekhet Kelim" (Treatise of the Vessels)

Richard Bauckham, James Davila, Alex Panayotov (editors), "Old Testament Pseudepigrapha: More Noncanonical Scriptures", Volume 1 (Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2013)

http://www.amazon.com/Old-Testament-Pseudepigrapha-Noncanonical-Scriptures/dp/080282739X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1389173368&sr=1-1&keywords=old+testament+pseudepigrapha+more+noncanonical+scriptures

Reply
tacitus
1/8/2014 08:13:12 am

"What kind of contract does Committee Films have Scott Wolter locked into? "

Good question; frankly, the production (especially the music) and editing of "America Unearthed" does him no favors.

Reply
Varika
1/8/2014 03:57:42 pm

My brother and I have more or less agreed that this season so far seems to be attempting to ameliorate the damage done to Wolter's reputation as a geologist last season. The second half of that season, in particular, made him out to be so incompetent as a geologist that it HAS to have had an impact on that front.

Reply
Mandalore
1/8/2014 08:34:25 am

I have a couple of questions for Mr. Flavin:

- What kind of ships would the Ptolemies use to get to America? Mediterranean galleys, which appear to be the ships portrayed on artifacts from the cave, were not capable of trans-oceanic voyages.

- What evidence is there of Ptolemies other than the cave? Such as house foundations, cities, genetics, language interaction, other artifact caches, etc.

- In what way were the artifacts placed in the cave and how were they found? Were they stacked carefully, buried, or strewn about? How were they recovered?

- Can you provide good images, or at least transcriptions, of some of the inscriptions or texts?

Also, as a comment, Alexander was not a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty.

Reply
Dan
1/8/2014 08:50:12 am

Flavin's a completely different guy. Its Hubbard who's "taking questions".

Reply
Mandalore
1/8/2014 09:37:40 am

Sorry, I read too fast.

Reply
CFC
1/8/2014 09:07:17 am

Questions for Mr. Hubbard:
1) Was he provided some quidelines from Committee Films, H2 about what he could and couldn't discuss?
2) Has Mr. Wolter expressed that he is in agreement that Burrows Cave is indeed the lost Ptolemaic Dynasty including Alexander the Great and Cleopatra?
3) What method has he used for proving his claims are correct?

Reply
LynnBrant link
1/8/2014 11:03:30 am

Scott told me he thought Burrow's Cave was a hoax. But that was a few years ago, so go figure.

Reply
Steve
1/8/2014 03:10:09 pm

I don't believe you, LynnBrant !

I have spoken to Scott many times about Burrow's Cave. He has NEVER said the entire cave is a hoax, as you indicated in your comment.

Instead, being accurate for Jason's readers who actually prefer more careful assessment of the evidence (you know, academic approach), Scott found at least one of the stones to be a fake.

If you can prove otherwise with verifiable documents from Scott in writing, I - and likely other more careful researchers than yourself - would welcome them.

Steve
1/8/2014 03:11:58 pm

BTW, sorry to disagree openly about anything in this wonderful club might post. But I happen to be privy to more of the facts than LynnBrant and I now know she has a chip on her shoulder that might be coloring her presentation of what she perceives as the facts, right LynnBrant?

If not, please provide verifiable evidence.

CFC
1/8/2014 06:45:35 pm

Steve - On Mr. Wolter's company website it states under the section called Archaeopetography the following:

"Burrow's Cave Artifacts (Hoax) – Illinois"

note: Artifacts (plural)

LynnBrant link
1/9/2014 12:19:00 am

Steve, You think you know so much about me, you would think you could at least get my gender correct. :) In fact, it was soon after some of the artifakes were proven to be that. Scott said something like - when you claim a group of artifacts are authentic and they come from a cave you won't show anyone and some of them are clearly fakes, it casts a pretty serious shadow on the whole thing. Laugh laugh. Of course, then he didn't know he would become desperate for "sites" and need to bring Burrow's Cave back into the "possible." There is no archaeology or geology about this, just economics.

Bart
1/9/2014 05:16:36 am

Scott Wolter himself has gone on record as to his official opinion about Burrows Cave in his new book "From Akhenaten to the Founding Fathers". There is a chapter dedicated to the fraud he uncovered regarding the Burrows Cave artifacts. When he asked Burrows for more artifacts to study Burrows presented what appeared to be recently carved stones which coincidentally seemed to reference the Kensington Runestone. If I read the chapter correctly this was too much for Wolter, and he has washed his hands of Burrows Cave at least for now.

Reply
Woman Wisdom
1/10/2014 02:49:54 am

Steve! I came here a few days ago as I saw it ina link about Wolters show! Colavitto nad his cronies only agree with whatever they think is right and they do not use facts or proven info. I actually wonder if its not the same person under different names! Do not be fooled by them and their statement, as when they are backed in corner they just blatantly lie.

Jason Colavito link
1/10/2014 02:53:48 am

That comment would be cute, "Woman Wisdom," if I didn't know that at least three different user names posting comments all came from your IP address.

RLewis
1/8/2014 09:54:55 am

To Hubbard:
-You say (on your web site" that "Evidence indicates that the gold was sold to the United States Bureau of Printing and Engraving via Fort Knox." What is this evidence?
-Also on your website, you describe the person who re-discovered the caves as a "perpetrator of vicious crimes". Why would you trust any claims, stories, or artifacts presented by this person?

Reply
Rlewis
1/8/2014 10:03:51 am

Also, if this video, entitled "Aliens From the Lost Tomb of Alexander the Great?" is not about ancient aliens, what is it about?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzZNO6lQfn0&feature=player_embedded

Reply
Face Palm
1/8/2014 12:43:13 pm

Rlewis, that video of Harry Hubbard is completely Ancient Aliens! with Hubbard quoting pre-Zacharia Sichin and pre-Erich von Daniken books supporting ancient alien visitation! But it gets better.... talk about looney tunes! Here is a page I found, Debatable Issues of Harry Hubbard, with some hilarious content. These are topics he debate anybody, anywhere, but for money! No number of scientists or scholars can escape the brilliance... face palm.

"I will publicly debate the following issues at any time, anywhere, for MONEY! Should someone wish to debate these controversial topics, it must be remembered this side has consumed thousands of books of fact and matter pertaining to the topics listed below. There is no choice but to use printed data as actual evidence to establish true facts step by step; opinions, as well as faith, will not and do not matter.

Bottom line, if your sources date back further than the house...you win. Under every circumstance thus far, the opposition has been annihilated. Several of these issues have already been debated in public and no one (so far) has come close. If you've only seen a one hour show on the DISCOVERY Channel or the TLC Network concerning these extremely delicate issues: Please don't bother. This Topical Section is for persons who have read at least 2000-3000 non-fiction books so far in their lifetime.....All others are eligible to wave pom-poms and cheer. Harry Hubbard, is solely responsible for this Debate Page and will singularly accept full responsibility for the following data listed by subject in alphabetical order:

1) Animal Years: Dog Years and Cat Years are the same as Human Years. The psychology of believing different is nothing more than a subtle indoctrination. No animal has years different than Humans. Years are determined by a sun cycle, not the length of any one animal's lifespan. Anyone who believes in dog years, is ignorant, to say the least.

2) Bar-Cocheba or Bar-Cochba or Bar-Kocheba or Barcochebas: There never was a warrior named Bar Cocheba. He was invented in the late 1700's and is entirely mythical as is Hiawatha, Santa Clause and Mickey Mouse. There never were any Bar Kocheba Wars either! His history does not exist. Anyone who buys into this myth, is simply ignorant.

3) Big Bang Theory: An absolutely ludicrous and elementary set of theoretical ideas concocted in the late 1930's. To believe such is to say that Mickey Mouse was a national hero. The insemination of the idea, and cogitation of this theory reads like a comic strip without humor. Any one who believes in a Big-Bang Theory, is simply ingnorant.

4) Black Holes: There is no hard evidence that Black Holes exist and the theory cannot be proven with existing data or existing mechanical devices. This theory was concocted in the minds of Science Fiction enthusiasts and found a grip in society at large. Black Holes exist only in the imagination of Stephen Hawkins; his lunatic instructor; and his closest arch rival; all who attempted to enjoy a famous status. Therefore, anyone who buys into the Black Hole theories, is simply ignorant of the facts, or lack thereof.

5) Darwin: The Theory of Evolution is nothing but a concoction of animal origin designed to make humans think their great grandfathers were monkeys. When one believes they came from an ape, then they are most likely to believe other falsehoods as well, including what has been listed so far and further below. Any person who believes in the Darwinian Theory of Evolution is simply ignorant.

6) Dendrochronology: Tree Ring Dating. Don't believe anything you ever heard about dendrochronology. Tree-Ring dating is a total hoax and a completely unreliable method of dating ancient buildings or anything else in the American Southwest. Therefore, any person who believes the multitude of theories surrounding tree rings, is simply ignorant.

7) Flat Earth: No one ever thought the earth was flat. This new sensation took a strong foothold after World War II. There are no books printed in the 1800's that claim anyone ever believed the earth was flat, however, quite the contrary is true dating back to before 500 BC. Ancient man was no idiot. Anyone who believes that people before Columbus ever thought the world was flat, are simply ignorant. All they had to do was look at the sun and moon, DUH!

8) Global Warming; Ozone Layer Depletion: There is no Global Warming and there isn't enough evidence available to establish that an Ozone Layer even exists in the first place. This is a theory concocted merely to excite the fears of the American masses; similar to Y2K.

9) Hiawatha: Hiawatha is not a real person. He is a mythical character created by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow in the late 1800's.

10) Ice Age Theory: The commonly accepted theories of Ice Ages are utterly impossible. There never was a global action due to extensive ice glaciers and the idea of such has merely b

Jason Colavito link
1/8/2014 12:46:41 pm

It really pisses me off that virtually EVERYONE in "fringe" studies simply revises his position on issues at will and then demands that we all pretend like his previous positions stopped existing. Hubbard simply exploited the fact that I can't possibly know everything he's ever said over several decades. Thank goodness for YouTube.

This question is going on the top of the list.

Funny as all get out!
1/8/2014 01:09:26 pm

My favorite quote from Harry Hubbard on black holes (posted by Face Palm): "This theory was concocted in the minds of Science Fiction enthusiasts and found a grip in society at large. Black Holes exist only in the imagination of Stephen Hawkins;"

Oh yeah. That guy Stephen Hawkins.

Hah!

Only Me
1/8/2014 01:13:27 pm

Nice post, Face Palm.

So basically, anyone who has a differing opinion on Hubbard's hand-picked list of topics...is simply ignorant.

If this man blew any more smoke out his ass, he'd be a chimney.

This can't be real, seriously?
1/8/2014 01:34:03 pm

From Hubbard debate page:

"11) Madam Blavatsky: Madam Blavatsky never existed. She was created out of thin air to mystify and play upon helpless cult wannabe's during the early 1920's and make her creator a lot of money. The mulatto woman pictured as Madam Blavatsky in the apron, is actually Aunt Jemima.

12) Maya / Quetzalcohuatl: There never were any "Maya Indians" and all information concerning this subject is entirely concocted to play upon a dimwitted society. The Maya never existed! There is no such thing as a Mayan Calendar (it was Mexican). Also, there never existed a person or god named Quetzalcohuatl; he was created and perpetuated by Jesuit Priests out of thin air to play upon an ignorant contemporary public."

Holy moly. It's got to be a joke, right?

Pacal
1/8/2014 03:03:24 pm

What an incredible list! It is simply baffling. A couple of points.

Regarding no. 1. And the point?

Regarding No. 2. The War of Bar Kosiba I suppose the brief of accounts of the war in Dio Cassius and Eusebius don't exist to say nothing of the mentions in the Talmud. I suppose Yadin's find of those contemporary letters dating to the period of the revolt don't exist. Including letters from Simon Bar Kosiba. And there are the coins.

Regarding 3 and 4 can we say doesn't know what he is talking about.

No. 5 is typical creationist crap. I suppose this person doesn't have a clue about how genetic studies have strongly confirmed Evolution.

No. 6, Amazingly ignorant it seems about how dendrochronology is in fact used, tested and checked. If used properly it is indeed reliable.

No. 7. It is very well known among Academics that the whole notion that people thought the world was flat is a myth. Just less well known to the general public. And contrary to this persons statement it is a fact that this myth started in the 1800s. One of the first tellers of this myth was the American historian Prescott in a book he did on the history of Spain.

No. 8 is amusing and sorry the ozone layer exists.

No. 9 It is known that Longfellow's Hiawatha is a fiction. Longfellow took some Ojibwa legends and stories and created his fiction. However among the Iroquois one of the two people credited with creating the confederacy was a man named Hiawatha. Aside from the name he has nothing to do with Longfellow's creation. Oh and this Hiawatha probably did exist.

No. 10 about ice ages is pretty much no nothing nonsense.

Varika
1/8/2014 04:21:12 pm

1) Animal Years

Well, duh. "Animal Years" is just a way of expressing that animal development occurs at a different pace than human years, and even small children understand this.
3) Big Bang Theory
The fact that all subsequent astronomy has pretty much confirmed the math behind the big bang theory means nothing! And that Stephen Hawking guy never came up with a theory that it didn't happen, either! 9.9
4) Black Holes: There is no hard evidence
...he doesn't keep up on the latest research, clearly; there is in fact strong hard evidence of black holes. Quasars, for one. And in the next few years, we'll get to see the supermassive black hole at the center of our own galaxy devour something! It's AWESOME.

5) Darwin
...and some people are the proof that we came from apes...

6) Dendrochronology: Tree Ring Dating.
It's okay if it's something outside the American Southwest, though. The laws of physics are different there.

7) Flat Earth
Not QUITE true, in that I am perfectly certain that any number of uneducated people have thought, along the way, that the Earth is flat. There are still some today, after all. But it was never a particularly widespread belief, no.

8) Global Warming; Ozone Layer Depletion
The question isn't really is global warming happening, it's how much of it is due to human interactions. (I personally have my doubts that we've had quite as much impact as our arrogance would like to believe.) But the existence of the ozone layer is a flat-out confirmed fact.

10) Ice Age Theory
Wow. Uh. Is "You're an idiot" his only response to anything?
13) Metric System: The French Metric System is nothing but an absurd form of measurement created and instituted on pompous lies and endless theory to stagnate science, physics, mathematics and technology by those who use it. ...And no one wonders why the Americans and British invent everything? (This statement pertains to distances only.)
So in other words, he resented math and science classes in school because he had to learn METRIC! ZOMG! Does he realize it doesn't matter whether you're using inches and feet, meters, or cubits, it doesn't change the base facts?
15) Pangea, Gondwanaland: There is no evidence to support the Continental Drift Theory. This is yet another commonly accepted theory concocted in 1912 by an average weatherman named Alfred Wegener...18) Tectonic Plates: Throw this in with the Continental Drift Theory: You can't have both at the same time can you? There are no Tectonic Plates anywhere in the Earth's crust. Add to this measure, the fact that the famous Ring-of-Fire is a misnomer when the evidence is carefully examined.
How on earth can you "not have both at the same time" when one describes how the other took place? And he can't possibly be examining actual evidence even in the most cursory fashion. I mean, you can only drive out in California and SEE the edge of the plate for your own damned self and all...

Paul Cargile
1/9/2014 02:11:32 am

The debate topics are a good laugh.

I guess in those 2000 - 3000 non-fiction books he read, he never read anything about how black holes were mathematical curiosities discovered when scientist starting plugging numbers into Eistein's equations.

LOL
1/10/2014 02:54:34 am

Jaso Colovita must be the shock jock of alternative history! The bater ins hysterical with the posters here /although incorrect!

Tara Jordan link
1/8/2014 03:40:54 pm

Face Palm.
"I will publicly debate the following issues at any time, anywhere, for MONEY! Should someone wish to debate these controversial topics".
3) Big Bang Theory
4) Black Holes

How much money?.

Reply
LynnBrant
1/9/2014 12:24:12 am

Natural selection is a theory. Evolution is a fact and has been proven in the lab with fruit flies for many years. Indeed, how much money?

Tara Jordan link
1/8/2014 02:51:51 pm

On Tuesday,I contacted K.Yoshida,former assistant to Sakuji Yoshimura (Director of the Institute of Egyptology at Waseda University,the world foremost authority on Egyptology).I deliberately avoided a discussion over "the technicality of an Egyptian journey of 50,000 people to Illinois or the Grand Canyon",but I showed him the pictures of "Egyptian artifacts" presented by Harry Hubbard on the America unearthed show.You have to remember that Japanese are by nature extremely polite ,but to quote Yoshida: "Jodan desu ka?,this is ridiculous,the stones are fakes,please look at the carvings...so unsophisticated.....the person who made these stones,was not an ancient Egyptian...".

Reply
Tara Jordan link
1/8/2014 03:04:24 pm

Jason,I have a question for Mr Harry Hubbard.
Are you willing to submit your "Egyptian artifacts" to professional expertise in order to establish authenticity?.

Reply
Joe
1/8/2014 04:33:24 pm

Can you please ask Mr. Hubbard if he is available for children parties?

Thanks

Reply
Fantasy History Watcher
1/8/2014 10:36:15 pm

It's impossible to reason with the irrational

Even rational people believe in absurdities

Reply
Paul Cargile
1/9/2014 02:15:59 am

Like, and one vote up.

Reply
Harry Hubbard
1/9/2014 02:03:21 pm

"Black Holes exist only in the imagination of Stephen Hawkins."

Stephen Hawkins is Keith Richards' drug dealer and he imagines lots of weird things. Now Stephen Hawking, he's an entirely different person who never existed.

To all of you who dispute the brilliance of my pronouncements....

Ha, ha, made you look!

Harry

Reply
J.A. Dickey
1/10/2014 09:01:54 am

I remember reading a historical fiction novel by Taylor Caldwell
about Marcus Tullius Cicero and thinking it fairly accurate given
that a good novelist has to resist the temptation of putting their
words into the mouth of the historic figure in order to have the
tale be realistic and believable. Of all that HH has indeed talked or written about, if the most critical detail of an insight involves
the fixation OCTAVIAN had on the GREAT ALEXANDER in a
manner akin to Julius Caesar's very similar one that was most
legendary, if the backdrop is the conquest of Egypt the intense
politics of the era, ought i to wonder if Philip of Macedonia is the
man who broke the nose of his son? If Augustus was in close
proximity to the demi-urge of the legends, the crux of the story
perhaps has some of the treasure after being taken to Rome
being "liberated" by A.H and evidently, with or without a UFO up
in the sky obeying a TREK prime directive. Once again i think of
TAYLOR CALDWELL's Cicero, and Plutarch & Suetonius. Did
A.Helios steal back a fortune, if H.H is to be at all believed? Was
GREAT CAESAR furious at a trust that was betrayed? Or is this
total fiction? Lets go in2 the dynamic that sent Octavius forward!

Reply
Jason Colavito link
1/10/2014 09:10:19 am

The event occurs in Cassius Dio at 51.16.5, but it is widely believed that the story is apocryphal. Taken it face value, the text only says that Octavian touched the body, and a piece of the nose fell off.

Reply
J.A. Dickey
1/10/2014 09:23:24 am

Everything about Julius Caesar and his EGO suggests he
hero worshipped Alexander the Great and liked to be compared
to he, the Macedonian cousin to Augustus is likewise only an
afterthought. If envy, irony and hero worship are Octavian as a
public and private persona, there was a battle royal over the
great and vast treasures of Egypt. How does one politely loot?
I think the story is more literal and Cassius Dio quite accurate.
H.H is making a Pillars of Hercules leap greater than Plato's
in his REPUBLIC. Hence why this reads like fiction! A.Helios
did live. Its the thought of all those ships trying to make sense
of an auld map from Carthage prior to Cato the Elder getting
his say and way. I'd hate to think the LIVING GREAT ONE did
keep the nose of the dead Great One as a trinket of his travels.
H.H is being artful in his replies. One can take Budge and end
up with crude stone carvings that resemble Coptic amulets, but
the 1912 hoax in the same area predates the discovery of Tut's
tomb. Was Atlantis based on tales from Brazil? or did ships go
halfway into the Atlantic, discover provisions were short & then
reverse course reluctantly? Did Columbus push his luck totally?


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          • W. Scott-Elliot >
            • The Story of Atlantis
            • The Lost Lemuria
          • The Lost Atlantis
          • Atlantis in Africa
          • How I Found Atlantis (Hoax)
          • Termier on Atlantis
          • The Critias and Minoan Crete
          • Rebuttal to Termier
          • Further Responses to Termier
          • Flinders Petrie on Atlantis
        • Lost Cities >
          • Miscellaneous Lost Cities
          • The Seven Cities
          • The Lost City of Paititi
          • Manuscript 512
          • The Idolatrous City of Iximaya (Hoax)
          • The 1885 Moberly Lost City Hoax
          • The Elephants of Paredon (Hoax)
        • OOPARTs
        • Oronteus Finaeus Antarctica Map
        • Caucasians in Panama
        • Jefferson's Excavation
        • Fictitious Discoveries in America
        • Against Diffusionism
        • Tunnels Under Peru
        • The Parahyba Inscription (Hoax)
        • Mound Builders
        • Gunung Padang
        • Tales of Enchanted Islands
        • The 1907 Ancient World Map Hoax
        • The 1909 Grand Canyon Hoax
        • The Interglacial Period
        • Solving Oak Island
      • Religious Conspiracies >
        • Pantera, Father of Jesus?
        • Toledot Yeshu
        • Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay on Cathars
        • Testimony of Jean de Châlons
        • Rosslyn Chapel and the 'Prentice's Pillar
        • The Many Wives of Jesus
        • Templar Infiltration of Labor
        • Louis Martin & the Holy Bloodline
        • The Life of St. Issa (Hoax)
        • On the Person of Jesus Christ
      • Giants in the Earth >
        • Fossil Origins of Myths >
          • Fossil Teeth and Bones of Elephants
          • Fossil Elephants
          • Fossil Bones of Teutobochus
          • Fossil Mammoths and Giants
          • Giants' Bones Dug Out of the Earth
          • Fossils and the Supernatural
          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
          • Fossil Bones and Giants
          • American Elephant Myths
          • The Mammoth and the Flood
          • Fossils and Myth
          • Fossil Origin of the Cyclops
          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
        • Purchas His Pilgrimage
        • Edmond Temple's 1827 Giant Investigation
        • The Giants of Sardinia
        • Giants and the Sons of God
        • The Magnetism of Evil
        • Tertiary Giants
        • Smithsonian Giant Reports
        • Early American Giants
        • The Giant of Coahuila
        • Jewish Encyclopedia on Giants
        • Index of Giants
        • Newspaper Accounts of Giants
        • Lanier's A Book of Giants
      • Science and History >
        • Halley on Noah's Comet
        • The Newport Tower
        • Iron: The Stone from Heaven
        • Ararat and the Ark
        • Pyramid Facts and Fancies
        • Argonauts before Homer
        • The Deluge
        • Crown Prince Rudolf on the Pyramids
        • Old Mythology in New Apparel
        • Blavatsky on Dinosaurs
        • Teddy Roosevelt on Bigfoot
        • Devil Worship in France
        • Maspero's Review of Akhbar al-zaman
        • The Holy Grail as Lucifer's Crown Jewel
        • The Mutinous Sea
        • The Rock Wall of Rockwall
        • Fabulous Zoology
        • The Origins of Talos
        • Mexican Mythology
        • Chinese Pyramids
        • Maqrizi's Names of the Pharaohs
      • Extreme History >
        • Roman Empire Hoax
        • American Antiquities
        • American Cataclysms
        • England, the Remnant of Judah
        • Historical Chronology of the Mexicans
        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
      • US Government Ancient Astronaut Files >
        • Fortean Society and Columbus
        • Inquiry into Shaver and Palmer
        • The Skyfort Document
        • Whirling Wheels
        • Denver Ancient Astronaut Lecture
        • Soviet Search for Lemuria
        • Visitors from Outer Space
        • Unidentified Flying Objects (Abstract)
        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
        • Ancient Astronaut Society Telegram
        • Noah's Ark Cables
        • The Von Daniken Letter
        • CIA Psychic Probe of Ancient Mars
        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
        • UFOs in Ancient China
        • CIA Report on Noah's Ark
        • CIA Noah's Ark Memos
        • Congressional Ancient Aliens Testimony
        • Ancient Astronaut and Nibiru Email
        • Congressional Ancient Mars Hearing
        • House UFO Hearing
      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
        • Premodern UFO Sightings
        • The Moon Hoax
        • Inhabitants of Other Planets
        • Blavatsky on Ancient Astronauts
        • The Stanzas of Dzyan (Hoax)
        • Aerolites and Religion
        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
      • A Message from Mars
      • Saucer Mystery Solved?
      • Orville Wright on UFOs
      • Interdimensional Flying Saucers
      • Flying Saucers Are Real
      • Report on UFOs
    • The Supernatural >
      • The Devils of Loudun
      • Sublime and Beautiful
      • Voltaire on Vampires
      • Demonology and Witchcraft
      • Thaumaturgia
      • Bulgarian Vampires
      • Religion and Evolution
      • Transylvanian Superstitions
      • Defining a Zombie
      • Dread of the Supernatural
      • Vampires
      • Werewolves and Vampires and Ghouls
      • Science and Fairy Stories
      • The Cursed Car
    • Classic Fiction >
      • Lucian's True History
      • Some Words with a Mummy
      • The Coming Race
      • King Solomon's Mines
      • An Inhabitant of Carcosa
      • The Xipéhuz
      • Lot No. 249
      • The Novel of the Black Seal
      • The Island of Doctor Moreau
      • Pharaoh's Curse
      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
      • Count Magnus
      • The Mysterious Stranger
      • The Wendigo
      • Sredni Vashtar
      • The Lost World
      • The Red One
      • H. P. Lovecraft >
        • Dagon
        • The Call of Cthulhu
        • History of the Necronomicon
        • At the Mountains of Madness
        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
      • The Corpse on the Grating
      • The Second Satellite
      • Queen of the Black Coast
      • A Martian Odyssey
    • Classic Genre Movies
    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
      • A Problem in Greek Ethics
      • The Migration of Symbols
      • The Gospel of Intensity
      • De Profundis
      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
      • The Bathtub Hoax
      • Crown Prince Rudolf's Letters
      • Position of Viking Women
      • Employment of Homosexuals
      • James Dean's Scrapbook
      • James Dean's Love Letters
      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
    • Free Classic Pseudohistory eBooks
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