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My Conversation with a TV Producer about Smithsonian Conspiracies

2/28/2014

35 Comments

 
Before we begin today, I thought I’d share an odd blog post I saw this morning. Joe Rose, the onetime America Unearthed guest who later claimed that the show misrepresented his views on Mithraism, is presenting for your consideration a leather re-bound copy of Philip Ainsworth Means’s The Newport Tower, complete with Scott Wolter’s own penciled-in annotations! That’s not the interesting thing. The interesting thing is that Rose, who is a bookbinder by trade, explains that he now considers Wolter a “fringe history revisionist” and is apparently upset with him, despite having been “practically on retainer” as Wolter’s personal bookbinder. (Note: It must be nice to be able to affording having your entire fringe history library leather-bound, though it ruins the value of the books as artifacts.)
Yesterday I had a productive phone meeting with a producer for a cable television documentary series exploring world mysteries, as I indicated yesterday I would. Technically, I’m still under consideration to have a cameo as a guest expert on the show, so I won’t share the name of the show or the network right now. What I can say is that I did my damnedest to use facts and logic to torpedo the production team’s idea that there is a conspiracy run by the Smithsonian to suppress the truth about Bible giants.

The producer started by asking me questions about the Smithsonian’s actions in specific instances where “giant” bones were alleged to be discovered, and I in turn asked him what the Smithsonian said when he asked them for their view. The answer was rather enlightening: He told me that they hadn’t contacted the Smithsonian because they were still researching the conspiracy but that they planned to call them for comment at some point before the segment aired because viewers might expect that. One would think that this would have been the place to start, but then again the Smithsonian (in conjunction with Showtime) operates a cable channel that directly competes with the one airing this program. I asked how he came to find me in that case, and he told me that the show found me through an internet search for Micah Hanks and that they were interested in the “feud” we had over giant skeletons last summer. I have never met Micah Hanks.

The producer informed me that the program intends to present several “experts” who believe that the Smithsonian is hiding the truth, along with several who deny the claim. The show plans to “leave it up the viewers” to determine the truth. I told him that this was false equivalency and was creating the impression that there were two equal sides to the claim of a giant-suppression conspiracy. I also told him that while I would be happy to provide expert commentary if it will be used fairly, I am not willing to participate in a program that intends to promote a conspiracy theory without evidence. Did they have any evidence of giant skeletons? Of course not; they only had “internet searches.” Were they looking for evidence? They were looking for “debate” that did not involve fieldwork.

I informed the producer of the history of the Smithsonian conspiracy claim, namely that it was invented by David Childress in 1993 from false evidence and then adopted by creationists following Pat Buchanan and other Republicans’ efforts to politicize the Smithsonian as anti-white and anti-American in 1994. He did not really seem to listen to this because it was running counter to the narrative that the show apparently was going for, that conspiracies are fun. In fact, the production team, who had claimed to have read extensively on my website, missed all of the posts I’ve made about the history of this conspiracy. However, when I informed the producer that several other cable series, including H2’s America Unearthed and Ancient Aliens, had already presented the alleged Smithsonian conspiracy this season, that got his attention.

I told him that seeing this false claim repeated on multiple series across multiple networks contributes to a propaganda effect, legitimizing a claim that has no factual backing, and that this is not just fun and games but has a very serious impact on the audience. I reminded him that accusing the United States government and all of academia of a massive conspiracy was a whole level of seriousness above asking whether a dead coyote was really a chupacabra. I told him about Scott Wolter’s call for a congressional investigation into the imaginary conspiracy and how many people who watch these shows take this idea seriously. This seemed to shock the producer, and I got the impression that he had not really taken the time to think about the impact wild claims have on the audience. It was all just for fun, right?

Overall, my impression is that the producer I spoke to, who is British, understood that the “giant” conspiracy was an outgrowth of American creationism and anti-government tendencies but that the program had no intention of probing the social or political origins of conspiracy claims, instead hoping for a “balanced” debate for or against the existence of a conspiracy, as though balance were the same as fairness, or truth and lies two sides of the same coin. I think, though, that I gave the show enough food for thought that they’ll reconsider this segment, if for no other reason than because the competition already did it—twice.

Of course, I could have just agreed with everything they said and gone on TV to make some money promoting myself. But that would have been a disservice to viewers and to the truth.
35 Comments
Matt Mc
2/28/2014 03:31:30 am

Way to go Jason.

I hope you got through to him, A show about the history of cover-up would be equally if not more interesting and it would be great if maybe you planted a seed for him to go in that direction.

Reply
steve
3/13/2014 03:01:24 pm

Jason I don't care which side of the fence you are on I feel most all you so called 'experts' are just great pretenders really. You all call them facts and back that up with Masters and PHDs and other such things but in the end down the road into the future its always oh hey wait, don't take that after all, or hey wait, we thought it was this but no its this way. Only until the next guy tells you new facts and on it goes. Really who are you to poke the bear? You all have your bias and yours like Hawass, Lehner and others shows in your works like everyones'

Reply
Jason Colavito link
3/13/2014 11:36:58 pm

I'm a bit confused: You seem to be complaining that scholars change their mind when new evidence emerges and would instead prefer that everyone be consistently wrong by sticking with a comforting but false story. There are differences between facts and interpretations, and I'm not sure you are entirely clear on this. Your problem seems to be that interpretations change as more facts are brought to light.

An Over-Educated Grunt
2/28/2014 03:40:35 am

Certainly sounds like there were a couple of "a-ha!" moments in there. Must have been an interesting conversation.

Reply
Walt
2/28/2014 05:31:22 am

I'd enjoy watching a balanced debate about the existence of the conspiracy without the show promoting a conclusion. So, yet again, I think you're way too uptight, taking entertainment way too seriously, and considering yourself the protector of all the viewers who are dumber than you are. Lighten up and do the show no matter how they plan to present it, as long as your words won't be taken out of context.

Reply
Snarkorado
2/28/2014 01:16:18 pm

Sounds like PHIL-i-bustering to me!

"Lighten up"

Yes Jason is the the protector of all the viewers who are dumber than you (he) are (is).

Since you don't like the subject of Jason's blog posts, the logical solution is to not read them.

Or are you a supporter of one of his victims?

Reply
Walt
2/28/2014 02:04:57 pm

I'm just an objective reader who isn't a fan of Jason or of the people he covers, and understands the difference between commercial and non-commercial television.

Jason and his supporters are just so angry about every little thing. Everyone should relax. This blog, the comments, and the even the TV show he's so conflicted and melodramatic about possibly filming, are all totally meaningless in the overall scheme of things, as we all are.

Walt
2/28/2014 04:46:06 pm

And, BTW, I'm also the only person here who actually gave Jason the sound career advice that he should make the TV appearance as long as he believes his words won't be used out of context. His agent and his loved ones should be saying the same thing.

Tara Jordan link
2/28/2014 05:19:48 pm

Walt
I am afraid you don't get the point.This is not about being fan of Jason or not.If you are looking for individuals who really get "so angry about every little thing",you`re picking on the wrong bunch.I suggest you to talk to the real activist debunkers (the crowd from James Randi forums,Doubtful news etc...),the ones on a mission.These are the luminaries who been exposing astrology,tarot reading,ghosts,dowsing,paranormal activities & related nonsensical bullshit for decades.Most amongst us on this blog only focus on specific topics. As a matter of fact I don't even consider myself a "debunker".

Reply
Walt
3/1/2014 02:07:30 am

But Tara, the comment I responded to was definitely not happy that I dared suggest Jason should appear on TV regardless of his personal feelings, as long as he believed they wouldn't chop up his words.

Just the fact that I'm the only one who gave sound advice tells me he should stop believing the "press" that comes from his fans. He should lighten up, do his part to get the truth out there, and further his career in the process. Maybe every TV appearance won't be perfect, but there will be more.

Jason Colavito link
3/1/2014 02:22:46 am

You know that I did tell the producer I'm happy to appear on the show as long as they're planning to use my ideas fairly. I said as much above. I would rather, though, see the segment killed than see them present another conspiracy theory as though it were real.

J.A. Dickey
3/1/2014 06:03:04 am

Jason, is there ANY possibility that the dude looked
at the episodes on the rival programs, decided to briefly
mention them, and is about to actually put together a
better researched episode that makes them look stupid?
Some Brits like to "one up" lackadasical Yanks. If he
delves into this and has a hard bitten cynical take on it
all in a Ben Hecht manner, and holds slightly back as he
questions the basic premise, then all airtime you get is
all to the good. He does not have to be Rupert Murdoch's
waterboy or pet stooge, lets hope he is a tad independent!

Jason Colavito link
3/1/2014 06:06:05 am

I've seen the show he works on, which has been on for at least a season. It would be terribly off-format for that show to do a historical investigation into the origins of a conspiracy theory.

Tara Jordan link
3/1/2014 09:45:28 am

Walt.
From my personal perspective,you are decent & honest.I do not agree with your opinion but I respect it.Having said that,I don't believe in your "mutual indoctrination theory."Jason is not "listening to us" (first of all I do not consider myself a fan).Personally I appreciate a certain aspect of his work,but my position is that he should stop reviewing shows like Ancient Aliens (which I consider as childish) & instead focus on legitimate topics (for me,his reviews of Steven Pinker are some of his best articles).
How long are we supposed to debunk charlatans & snake oil doctors like David Childress,Tsoukalos & Co?.We are beating dead horses.I also understand that Jason has particular targets & personal motivations conflicting with my personal expectations.

Dave Lewis
2/28/2014 01:22:28 pm

I suggest that where the producer said, "It was all just for fun, right?" substitute, "It was all just for $$$, right?"

Also, I fear that if Jason actually appeared on the show they would edit his words so he would appear to support the fringe claims.

Reply
A.D.
2/28/2014 03:41:55 pm

They did that with Dr. Lorenz

Reply
charlie
2/28/2014 01:38:31 pm

A "debate" on the supposed conspiracy involving the Smithsonian would not be entertaining nor would it be worth the time to watch in my opinion.
Now, a show that gave the actual history of this conspiracy and then went on to prove how it is totally BS would be very much worth watching. Oh dear, but that would expose certain people, like the clown who started the whole conspiracy in the first place, all of which he did with second and/or third hand information. Yeah, that would be worth the time and could be very entertaining as well.

O/T, sorry to hear yesterday here that the new show about ancient mysteries explained will be so worthless. From the promos shown on H2 this week, I had better hopes for it. Oh well, and so it goes.

I DO have high expectations for the new Cosmos though.

Reply
Walt
2/28/2014 02:11:43 pm

I'd assume that a debate about the conspiracy would include the history, espeically if Jason participated.

Also, I wouldn't write off "The Universe". I think Jason has it quite wrong, and he'll say so if he does. Maybe I just refuse to believe they're "fringing" a good show.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
2/28/2014 10:29:27 pm

I wouldn't assume that. There's no reason to discuss David Childress inventing the conspiracy if your purpose is to explore whether the Smithsonian is hiding giants. Giants would be the subject, not the Smithsonian, and a 12-minute segment simply couldn't discuss the evidence fairly.

I have no idea what "The Universe" spinoff will cover. I can only report what H2 sent out in their press release.

Walt
3/1/2014 01:43:46 am

Jason, someone has updated the Wikipedia episode guide for The Universe, and the descriptions for the next two episodes are:

Episode 1: Examining the possibility that Stonehenge was a prehistoric astronomical observatory, used to record the movements of the Sun and Moon.

Episode 2: Examining the astronomical connections of the Pyramids of Giza .

So, no mention of the megalithic yard, though it's easy to see given your description they'll go there.

Jason Colavito link
3/1/2014 01:50:10 am

It isn't my description! I quoted directly from H2's press release sent out to the media to promote the spring season of programming. Blame them!

Uncle Ron
2/28/2014 03:23:08 pm

"Now, a show that gave the actual history of this conspiracy ..."

I agree, Charlie, but I don't think the average viewer would; or would watch. Taking a fringe idea which garners uncritical (read: uneducated) popular belief and support and methodically deconstructing it is unexciting and a buzzkill for most. I've run into that attitude all my life whenever I tried to point out the faulty logic, improbability, lack of evidence, or just plain foolishness of a wacko fringe idea. People want to believe that there is more to this world than what is plainly evident and conspiracies are the perfect solution (especially for those who don't take their religion seriously). Real life is just too prosaic for them; a little mystery spices things up and if they can concoct a nebulous conspiracy and blame it on the government, or academia, or a mysterious organization, they feel superior to those who don't know the "truth" - who aren't privy to the secret knowledge.

Walt (above) says, indirectly, that the truth is “totally meaningless in the overall scheme of things, as we all are.” That is a form of the “false equivalency” which Jason mentions; i.e. one belief is as good as another – who cares if it is true or not? I disagree. To paraphrase the old sports expression, “The truth isn’t everything; it’s the only thing.”

Debunking someone’s fantasy puts the onus of finding meaning in one’s life back onto the fantasist. That requires work. Most simply turn their backs on the debunker. Worse, they might (unconsciously) turn their backs on the debunker’s sponsor. Ay, there’s the rub.

Reply
Walt
2/28/2014 03:54:16 pm

It's not that one belief is as good as another, it's that we all started as space dust and we'll all end as space dust, regardless of the beliefs held in the middle. One can create any number of reasons for ignoring the facts and taking one's self more seriously than others, in spite of what we've learned in the last 20 years, but it's quite the delusion. Every one of us is exactly the same in the beginning and the end.

Jason Colavito link
2/28/2014 10:32:58 pm

That's a rather nihilistic belief. If we followed your advice, no one would ever advocate for social change because we'll all be dead anyway, so let's just accept falsehood and injustice because it's easier. I prefer to think that making things better for everyone is an end in itself, not just a path to measuring my own material improvement.

Walt
3/1/2014 01:48:58 am

I'm not saying beliefs shouldn't be held and truths or falsehoods discussed, I'm saying there's no place for anger, hatred, and the feeling of superiority during the process.

And I should mention that I wasn't addressing souls or religious beliefs in any way.

Dan
2/28/2014 03:06:50 pm

I'm surprised you didn't mention that the Smithsonian actually displayed the KRS in 1949.

Reply
Drew
3/1/2014 12:24:33 am

I have a coworker who is an expert on the Salem Witch Trials. He has written several books on the subject, has been cited in many others, and manages the archive where Reverend Parris' papers and sermons are kept. He takes a very evidence-based approach to the subject - no woo, just documentation.

So I was surprised to see him on a Haunted History program while flipping channels. It was pretty obvious the producers sliced his works to fit their narrative (and flat out ignored others - at one point he says, on screen, that the hangings did not happen in a certain location right before the show cut to some guy talking about the time he saw witch ghosts in that location). The company also stretched the truth as much as possible - he was listed as the 'Salem Village Archivist' when Salem Village has been Danvers for years and years.

I talked to him about his interview experience and he said the producers were pretty pushy about getting him to say the standard "Some people say...." line you see on all these shows, even though he had, like you, negotiated in advance that he would only be talking about documented history regarding the Hysteria, not legend or ghosts. When he finally got a copy of the program, he was a bit chagrined about it, but understands that given the subject matter, there will always be a bit of woo and the best he can hope for in certain venues is damage limitation.

So if you do this, watch what you say very carefully. Make it clear that you are happy to be cast as the hardline historian/skeptic and maybe you won't have to worry about too many facts being left on the cutting room floor.

Reply
Gunn
3/1/2014 02:56:02 am

Jason, if you keep hitting on the TRUTH button, you'll be fine. Have them agree in writing ahead of time about what your core belief is about the Smithsonian and giants, and that this view will be presented, and not any other view. But you should go for it, as an opportunity for publicity.

I'm a bit curious about why there are SEVERAL giants grave "site-ings" from here in MN, during the latter 1800's, especially the one from the Pioneer Press (St. Paul) about the grave containing no less than TEN skeletons, including females. I'll look for a link.

Even though it seems on the "Smithsonian surface" that the idea of giants is ludicrous, I can't help wondering how this newspaper report got so involved in specific details. This alone should make an interesting side-story to the issue. Were all these reporters complicit in spreading "giants falsehoods?" Did none of them launch a personal, on-site examination for themselves before reporting the incredible finds to the World? Or is there more to the story?

It doesn't help that the Smithsonian has either flip-flopped on some issues, like the KRS, or the Bat Creek Stone, or the Solutrean issue, or else they haven't drawn any final public conclusions. I think proponents of giants see a weak spot and are taking advantage of it. The Smithsonian is seen by most as representing the pinnacle of History Truth here in America, so they are catching a certain amount of flak because they defend the academic positions. The Smithsonian represents the established view, the academic view, in most issues, so they are in the ever-continuing process of receiving and dealing with flak from speculators, and they've had to adjust their paradigms once in a while.

This presents a good opportunity to discuss the relevancies connected to the KRS, but I'll wait for a bigger bait-fish to bite.

Forget giants, I can't help wondering how many examples of aged, triangulated stonehole rocks the Smithsonian might have in its collection for the public to view. What? No stonehole rocks? Well, I might question what the Smithsonian is IGNORING, not what they're confused about. (This may be construed as an attempt at humor.)

Reply
J.A.D
3/1/2014 06:15:32 am

Worse, the Bigfoot community people have an obvious overlap
with the Bible reading community who literally expect to find the
giants alluded to in Genesis. Jason, hint to the Brit that if 1/3rd
of the program looked at the odds of finding a very ancient Yeti
skeleton or the like, briefly opined on Gigantopithicus and then
went into the Bible passages, you get to quietly debunk two
fringe phenomenon cultish followings. Go into the Guinness Book
of World Records and historic giants. Toss in the popular press
accounts and then swing back towards the academia people as
you then lay it all out to the public. This would be MY approach!

Reply
J.A.D
3/1/2014 06:30:03 am

Fossil bones could have easily triggered the "giants in the earth"
speculations about very tall humans that are from the distant
past. When Paleontology proper was just beginning, at about the
time the first Neanderthal skull was found, Genesis was often
read literally. Having a historic context for troll or goblin myths in
light of how often caves hold fossils might be an interesting side
excursion into the topic. We know that Young Earth Creationists
doubt the Smithsonian, we are aware of Kentucky's Ark Park, we
have run into the "flooded orchards" ideas of Ken Ham. Ask the
fellow if he has seen the way Bill Nye held up the scientific method
as the correct approach for this & any topic involving archaeology
and anthropology. Is he thinking of exploring things in a manner
like the way H.L Mencken did at the time of the Scopes Monkey
Trial? The Giants In The Earth "debate' is a rephrasing of the old
stances taken by William Jennings Bryan and Clarence Darrow!!!
INHERIT THE WIND came out in the early 60s & neatly sums it up!

J.A.D
3/1/2014 06:58:45 am

There is a curious article that just came out on the Beringia land
bridge and its micro-climate! Evidently it was very warm for its high
latitude despite being so close to the big ice sheets. Some of the
experts think it was settled for ten thousand years as a "stop over"
for the trek into N.A from Siberia. The horrid thought is that it could
be the equivalent of Doggerland in the North Atlantic, if some of the
local hunter/gatherers had permanent settlements, its immersion is
almost like a vindication of Churchward's MU thesis if this severed
a cultural connection and trading center. Doggerland by inference is
then akin to Plato's Atlantis. If both oceans had seagoing cultures, these port cities vanish in the prehistory time-frame when flooded.
None of this has two continents sinking, only attractive real estate on their continental shelves.

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2014/02/27/Ancestors-of-Americas-original-people-lived-on-long-gone-land-bridge/UPI-83621393545188/

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1113084014/native-ancestors-bering-land-bridge-10000-years-022814/

http://thenaturalhistorian.com/2012/07/08/doggerland-sea-level-rise-human-migration-dispersal-creationism-ice-age/

Garymac
3/3/2014 11:47:20 am

I think you just exposed the modern media (entertainment and news alike) in a nutshell.

Reply
Patrick Bateman
3/12/2014 08:59:59 am

I was never clear exactly what Joe Rose's specific credentials were in regard to his appearances as a religious "expert" on several episodes of the first season of America Unearthed. Were you ever able to find anything about his background as anything other than Wolter's personal bookbinder? Or do the producers just seem to find someone who seems to fit the bill of whatever expert they need to present for the show and recruit anyone they can find for the part who can be passed off as some kind of knowledgeable authority? And let's be honest, these are roles being filled as part of a fairly unrealistic scripted reality show...complete with fake first meetings, phone calls, and discoveries. I wonder how many takes they have to do to make it all look convincing.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
3/12/2014 01:42:08 pm

Rose is a Freemason and has an unspecified degree in comparative religions. So far as I know he has not produced any publications on religion, and the claims he made on TV were demonstrably false.

Reply
Graham
3/28/2014 06:17:27 pm

Over on the Magonia Blog someone found an old newspaper hoax from 1887 involving a mysterious object that 'fell from the sky' and ended up in "...the possession of Dr. Seyers, but it will be sent to the Smithsonian Institution in a short time, when an official report will be made."

http://pelicanist.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/fading-forteana.html

I wonder just how long before some sensation hungry TV producer stumbles across it and turns it into another Smithsonian Conspiracy.

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