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My Conversation with Scott Wolter

12/27/2014

320 Comments

 
If you haven’t been keeping up with my conversation with Scott Wolter over on Wolter’s blog, please be sure to check it out. It has been an enlightening experience. So far, Wolter has revealed that up until I corrected him on it, he thought I was an ancient astronaut theorist. He has also announced that his program last week on whether the Chinese built the East Bay Walls near San Francisco wasn’t intended to suggest that the Chinese built the East Bay Walls. He further feels that I have hijacked the web traffic meant for his show through the nefarious plot of providing content related to the topics addressed on his show: 
Your mastery of the Internet has created a following for sure, but like a lot of miss-guided [sic] ventures, be careful what you wish for. Your attempts to undermine me personally have only hardened my resolve.
Wolter, after failing to recognize that I was explaining the literal meaning of the roots of the word incredible, also chose to address an issue that I have dutifully avoided:
Is this the best you have to bring; "They are not to be believed?" You sound like priest proselytizing to the faithful. For a guy who has questioned my integrity, allowed idiots on his blog to call me things like a "pseudoscientist," a "fraud" and "racist," and then to "threaten to expose" a 25 year-old lawsuit over a $1,500 agate I was ordered to give back to a guy who then wouldn't take it, you'd think you bring a little better game than this? Is this how you think history is to be decided? By trying to attack my credibility is that how you think you can win?
Wolter has chosen to make this a subject of public interest by misstating the facts of the lawsuit, which, since he is a public figure discussing them in a public forum, he has now freed me to talk about. In fact, he all but requires me to talk about it to explain why Wolter is misrepresenting me as threatening him when I was in fact trying very hard to avoid damaging his reputation as a geologist. I am attaching a copy of the relevant documents at the end of this post, but the long and short of it is that a judge, in the case of Petersen v. Wolter (1989), found that in 1988 Scott Wolter misrepresented a chunk of Brazilian agate worth $32.00 as a piece of Lake Superior agate worth $2,500.00 and used that chunk of rock to obtain from the plaintiff a piece of genuine Lake Superior agate in trade. The judge ruled that as “a known and recognized expert on Lake Superior agates” Wolter “knew, or with the exercise of reasonable care or competence, should have known, that said representations were false, or said representations were made by the defendant [Wolter] to the plaintiff [Petersen] without knowing whether they were true or false.”

The ruling did not, as Wolter states, require the return of the valuable agate, which according to court records Wolter had already sold. It required Wolter to return a second agate, a chunk of less valuable Brazilian slab agate traded along with the Lake Superior agate, and entered a judgment of “the sum of $2,000.00” to compensate Petersen for the Lake Superior agate, according to court records.

I trust you can see why I thought it damaging to a geologist who likes to use court proceedings as the standard of evidence for judging his claims that a court ruled that he misrepresented or was ignorant about a geological specimen, and therefore why I didn’t report on this until Wolter himself chose to talk about the facts of the case, even though, by his own standards, this information is highly relevant. As I have written in the past, I struggled with how to handle this material. However, since Wolter has chosen to discuss selectively parts of the lawsuit to imply that I am seeking to harm him, it is important that this information be available for all to read.

Before we finish, I’d like to point readers to a new book by the Dutch scholar of ancient history Jan N. Bremmer. The volume, Initiation into the Mysteries of the Ancient World, was recently published by De Gruyter, who are giving it away for free. I have not read the entirety of the book yet, but I want to highlight a couple of interesting observations for their relevance to the topics we discuss here. In an appendix on the source for Virgil’s underworld in Book Six of the Aeneid, Bremmer makes the claim that Virgil used passages from 1 Enoch as a template for Aeneas’ passage into Hades. Specifically, he argues that the Sibyl guiding Aeneas through Hades is modeled on the angel guiding Enoch through the heavens, with both sharing the motif of asking questions about various figures encountered. If true, this would imply a much wider distribution of 1 Enoch and its attendant mythology of Fallen Angels across the ancient world, and would also support claims, also by Bremmer, in the book The Watchers in Jewish and Christian Tradition earlier this year, in the opposite direction that cross-fertilization with Hellenistic mythology helped shape Enoch’s vision of the Fallen Angels.

What is beyond doubt, however, is that Virgil used Apollonius of Rhodes’s Argonautica as a model in the Aeneid. The love of Aeneas and Dido is closely modeled on that of Jason and Medea, for example. My book, Jason and the Argonauts through the Ages, argued that the Argonauts’ voyage was originally a descent into the underworld (a katabasis), particularly the ancient conception of the underworld shared across the ancient Near East that it was the nighttime home of the sun. Damien Nelis made a similar case that Virgil understood Apollonius’ version of the Argonautica as a symbolic descent into the underworld and therefore modeled the Golden Bough on the Golden Fleece. However, historically most Classical scholars have rejected this interpretation, for reasons I discuss in my book. It’s good to see that Bremmer has come down on my side of the argument, or something close to it, as he states in explaining how Virgil used elements of the Argonautica:
The expedition of Jason and his Argonauts also was a kind of quest, in which the Golden Fleece and the Golden Bough are clearly comparable. In addition, Colchis was situated at the edge of Greek civilisation so that the journey to it might not have been a katabasis but certainly had something of a Jenseitsfahrt [i.e., an otherworldly journey]. 
This partial agreement makes me feel a little better about disagreeing with him on the origins of the Golden Fleece.

peterson-v-wolter.pdf
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320 Comments
Scott Hamilton
12/27/2014 03:52:53 am

You've got to love the ego on Wolter. Oh no, his resolve is hardened! What will we ever do in the face of a person who spreads misinformation with a hardened resolve! That's never happened before!

Reply
Jason D.
12/28/2014 08:38:42 am

Wolter used 'Harden' it was super obstructive.

Reply
Americanegro
8/22/2016 07:56:05 pm

That can happen in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky … ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …")
That can happen in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky … ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …")
That can happen in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky … ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …")
That can happen in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky … ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …")
That can happen in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky … ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …")
That can happen in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky … ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …")
That can happen in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky … ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …")
That can happen in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky … ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …")
That can happen in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky … ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …")
That can happen in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky … ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …")
That can happen in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky … ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …")

Reply
Clint Knapp
12/27/2014 04:05:52 am

I wonder; is it possible that Wolter refers to yet another case altogether? I can see forgetting some of the details of a 25 year old lawsuit, but getting them completely wrong? There's a pretty big difference between a guy not taking a rock back and a guy not being able to get the rock back because it was sold.

It seems pretty irresponsible to lie outright about a matter of public record, though I suppose it would be par for the course...

Reply
EP
12/27/2014 07:25:57 am

Nah, it's the same case. Now Scott Wolter is also accusing his victim and the winner in this case of defrauding him.

That's bound to go well.

Reply
Clete
12/27/2014 04:08:08 am

I read the posts in answer to the questions raised by you and others on Scott Wolters web site. He refuses to answer the questions except by the arrogant reply of basically "I know more than you do". I are a "forensic geologist" but I can't read the dates on a map or even evaulate evidence from orginal, reliable sources.

He needs to be replaced by another of the stars of the History Channel....Larry the Cable Guy.

Reply
Dan
12/27/2014 04:50:57 am

Wolter's tired approach to skepticism is as predictable as it childish. His claim that on the Chinese maps "the level of detail and accuracy is incredible" is quickly debunked by various people noting that the portions of the map that should be detailed by the Chinese (SF area, etc) are not, and that the only detailed portions relate to areas discovered by the Spanish. Wolter's response is to pivot and claim that the fact-checkers are "nitpicking".
Facts are tough, dude.

Reply
EP
12/27/2014 05:04:59 am

Jason, you make me so happy sometimes! :D

Reply
Mar
12/28/2014 08:17:39 am

Bingo !

Reply
EP
12/27/2014 05:26:20 am

Scott Wolter's latest comments on Jason:

"I give Jason credit for venturing over here which smells a little bit like desperation."

"His attempts to tarnish me and my reputation has had the opposite effect and serves to show that the "old ways" of some segments of academia don't work anymore."

And, finally, the following gem of obliviousness:

"The advent of the Internet and instant communication has changed the rules. People in general are smarter and don't buy into the negativity."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! LOL

Reply
Kal
12/27/2014 05:33:43 am

Didn't take long for SW to go off his OCD meds and think you were against him. Not sure if he's on meds, but he sure sounds like he should be. The fact that he's 'hardened' is also disturbingly funny.

Just saw that walls episode again. SW does say, quoted from the show, "These walls look the same as those in China, so they could be from the Chinese." He goes on to assert the walls are Chinese because of his expert knowledge of rocks. Her never once interviews or refereneces the Spanish settlers, but does mention the map has Spanish elements. So which is it?

Even on the blog site you both went to he thinks the walls are Chinese, not Spanish colonial, or Mexican, from a territory that had been under Spain and the evidence' is literally everywhere.

A faked map doesn't make evidence out of a magical hat.

He runs a TV show where he tries to pawn off fringe ideas as real and has the attitude to flip out over bloggers who don't understand, because his stuff is muy loco en la cabeza. He should really actually get out more, take a break from TV, and do some actual real geology.

The old case is relevant too because it shows in 25 years he doesn't think he's ever wrong, even when he is.

You are not defaming him. He's already done that to himself. He has no reputation to lose via the web he hasn't already fostered upon himself on TV.

And that Custer's gold one and the pirate treasure one were also equally full of made up fiction. That is not the bloggers damaging his reputation, his ego, or anything. It is him doing it to himself.

The shows History puts out are no more history than ghost stories and legends of big foot.

Reply
EP
12/27/2014 06:30:08 am

"Not sure if he's on meds, but he sure sounds like he should be."

As someone who has extensive personal experience with being "on meds", I disagree. He just sounds like a stubborn dumbass who doesn't know when to quit.

Like, why on earth would he bring up that lawsuit - and do so in a way that all but compels Jason to release it?!

Reply
Snarky
12/27/2014 12:31:01 pm

Be careful about opining on SW's mental condition. He could sue you for that.

Reply
tagbs
1/4/2015 08:47:00 am

I'm still trying to figure out why he thinks the East Bay Walls look just like the Great Wall of China. On seeing the segment I immediately thought of the typical stone walls in the Northeast used by early settlers as boundry lines or to control thier herds. Maybe Scott needs to spend more time roaming the fields and woods of the USA northeast instead of the crumbling parts of China's wall

Reply
Mike Morgan
12/27/2014 06:50:46 am

In his blog, "Scott Wolter Answers", in his September 14, 2014 post titled ""So what about that “Apparently Non-Existent” Honorary Master’s Degree?"", SW expressed his concern that the discussion about his Coffee Cup Masters Degree would "...put my now elderly retired professors in an awkward position at being questioned about their kind gesture so many years ago."

Hmmm? Let's see. The Coffee Cup Masters Degree was conferred in the spring of '87, in the spring of '88 he, a published expert on Lake Superior Agates, traded a misrepresented LSA for a real LSA, was then sued over this in May of '89, and in June of '89 had a monetary judgement issued against him.

I have to wonder if part of his concern might be that perhaps his conferring professors may not be aware of this matter, and if not, may be made aware during "... being questioned about their kind gesture ...." and rescind his Coffee Cup Masters.

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Dan
12/27/2014 06:50:49 am

I'm pretty sure Wolter is moderating comments in that topic.

I tried to post something fairly dry about the objective fairly universal scientific view of Bat Creek Stone as a fraud and it hasn't seen the light of day on Wolter's blog.

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Rick
12/27/2014 07:11:56 am

I have tried to post several things recently with no luck either. But I asked him a very simple question a month ago with no problem. So I agree.

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Jason Colavito link
12/27/2014 12:42:34 pm

He has also declined to approve my response to his latest post (the one about me living in a basement).

Rick
12/27/2014 01:27:24 pm

I was kinda disappointed because my questions were pretty pointed but I thought relevant. Like when he mentioned the new techniques of ultra violet light analysis, but said he "hoped the skeptics allow us to do so..." I asked him how in any circumstance could a skeptic keep him from doing analysis in his own lab? And then publishing the results for peer review.

When I first posted that and it never showed up I thought he didn't like the question but the more I read about his responses I am quite sure he didn't want to bring the concept of peer review into the debate. Oh well I tried to go over there and play but he didn't want to. Lol

Only Me
12/28/2014 04:20:50 am

Well, I'll let Scott explain the situation himself (taken from his reply to an *approved* comment):

"I can appreciate the allure of reading both blogs, but after the exchanges with the other Jason this past week I now have a better understanding of how his mind works and I don't care for it at all. His underhanded nastiness is a real turnoff and it will ultimately be his undoing. He is an intelligent guy, but he needs to more objective and he's arguments would be more effective if he had even a hint of humility and acknowledge when a valid point was made. This is why I've repeatedly said he's not a serous and credible person. For those reasons and he's unnecessary personal attacks, he's done posting over here."

EP
12/28/2014 04:27:49 am

Jason's "arguments would be more effective if he had even a hint of humility and acknowledge when a valid point was made", eh?

My irony receptors just blew out.

Bryant Lister
12/28/2014 06:23:32 am

Scott has repeatedly taunted me about not posting on his personal blog site. I have declined to go there because he would be completely in control of the content that is displayed. Good to know that my reasoning was sound. I expect that from someone with Wolter's ego and desire for his followers to see him as something he is not.

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EP
12/28/2014 06:26:55 am

Do you mind me asking how it came about that Scott Wolter was repeatedly taunting you about not posting on his site?

Jason Colavito link
12/28/2014 06:57:11 am

Wolter banned me from his site today for "personal attacks."

EP
12/28/2014 06:58:50 am

Wait, who's Bryant Lister, then? I'm confused.

Only Me
12/28/2014 07:08:12 am

He's the guy who wrote an unfavorable review of Scott's book /Akhenaten to the Founding Fathers/. The exchange on Amazon.com was priceless.

EP
12/28/2014 07:15:43 am

How on Earth did I miss THAT?!?!

I was posting in that thread and everything...

Goddamn...

EP
12/28/2014 07:28:24 am

Scott Wolter: "You're mind is so closed you wouldn't know what the Holy Grail was if She bit you in the rear end."

OMG

Rick
12/28/2014 02:01:53 pm

I just read every single comment in Dr. Lister's comment thread for his review at Amazon. Holy shit! 131 posts. If I was on a computer and not in ipad I would cut and paste all the name calling SW did. Dr. Lister pretty much slammed SW over and over again. By the end of it they were trying to do character attacks which Dr. Lister explains away extremely well.

The sad thing about all this is that I really enjoy a mystery and took a few archeology and anthropology classes in college so I'm interested in stuff like this. But I'm turned off when SW holds two hand drawn pictures of runes (both or one of which the original is lost) and declares "these two look so much alike they have to be one in the same" or similar statements.

I think the divide between what scientists and researchers do and what SW does isn't as large to the casual viewer or reader as it should be.

Jerky
12/29/2014 03:59:23 am

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2WH9VUHD8VDFY/ref=cm_cd_pg_pg12?ie=UTF8&asin=B00F8OIDOI&cdForum=Fx1M8POE15YTCJ5&cdPage=12&cdThread=TxIH5HAO6TWGL0&store=digital-text#wasThisHelpful

This the page of comments you all are talking about?

EP
12/29/2014 04:03:11 am

Yep

Jerky
12/29/2014 04:12:43 am

wow... Just wow....

Rick
12/29/2014 11:52:04 am

I've never seen a published author engage in the bickering he does. What would his Amazon reviews look like without his replies?

18 reviews, 12 five star, 4 four star, and 2 one star. Who wouldn't be happy with that? Can't please everyone with a given work. So why go to such lengths? Is his ego really that large? Once you go to the comment section of his book he appears like an idiot. Like he does on his blog.

If I was him I never would have any type of social media interactions. I wouldn't reply to email, phone calls, anything. He gains nothing from it. The only thing he gains from it is to look egotistical and trivial like he does. Look at what he did to JC. JC came at his invitation, presented his case and SW was name calling by the third post it seemed until he finally kicked him from the blog. I don't remember JC being anything but civil and on point while SW was resorting to character attacks, circular logic and almost like he was trying to win a bet on how many of the 42 fallacies he could use in argument.

Only Me
12/30/2014 05:48:38 pm

Scott Wolter December 30, 2014 at 6:58 PM

[Logic is the basis of the work I do, so I think I'll embrace that. Your dogmatic insistence and cute demeaning labels remind me of another self-proclaimed expert and Amazon stalker who uses identical language and has to have the last word every time in every exchange.

You have demonstrated the same bias and combative attitude that results in no chance of a productive exchange. Can we be done now?]

This was in reply to a poster that was eating him alive. Mr. Lister, you have now graduated to Amazon stalker!

EP
12/31/2014 02:25:17 am

Amazon Stalker... Master of the Internet... Scott Wolter must live in a shitty cyberpunk novel...

Bryant Lister
1/2/2015 01:27:39 am

EP, I emailed Wolter almost a year ago after I sat through a few episodes of America Unearthed (my girlfriend was watching it). The lack of scientific method, wild claims and made up nonsense was insulting. So, I sent Wolter and email telling him so. After exchanging a few dozen emails with Wolter, discussing his show and claims about the Kensington Runestone, I became convinced that this geologist was toxic to science and reason. So, I did more research on his books and claims...which led me to posting reviews of his work on Amazon. During our email exchanges and commenting on Amazon, Wolter repeatedly said I should 'man up' and come to his blog and post there. He's continued this taunt for almost a year now, even though I've explained to him that I have no desire to post on his personal blog where he controls the content. The Amazon.com comments have become a source of comedic relief for me, seeing Wolter and his cult followers launch into personal attacks on me over and over again.

RLewis
12/27/2014 07:04:13 am

So I guess now you're banned. Merry Christmas

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EP
12/27/2014 07:08:19 am

By the way, Scott Wolter's sister is a total GILF:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QbjJV-2aqCs/VJcRZhkKnxI/AAAAAAAAAao/A5lGCMLBSJY/s1600/IMG_2415.JPG

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Rick
12/27/2014 07:08:52 am

SW seems like a person who doesn't really take effort to document what he says or thinks. I say this because much of his arguments seem to vary in details or thoughts which seem small but when put together into a document, appear unorganized.

Where JC is meticulous in detail and will trace a thought back through several different sources and quite often finding where errors or varying details were introduced into the chain of sources.

I work with scientists and have seen a 34 page paper on temperature changes in surface thermocouples of an experiment in a four hour test. Then SW speaks of the work he's done and the conclusions he has on one of his big three and there is no link to a 20-50 page paper on it. Where JC links every mention of whatever thought or point he's making from his blog and from underlying source info.

I think it shows unorganization in what SW is doing, and then when reviewed by a meticulous person such as JC is looks even worse. Because not only is JC pointing out faulty conclusions, or incorrect information, but also fallacies in arguments, logic and inconsistancies in wording.

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EP
12/27/2014 07:16:47 am

Wolter, not knowing when to quit, Part n:

"Albert Peterson initiated the deal with me out of greed, not telling me he had a third party wanting to buy big agates from him. When rejected by that third party, he panicked, claimed fraud and then filed a lawsuit in his home town. After all the testimony, the judge was totally confused and told us to undo the deal. When I tried to give the agate back, Albert refused to take it. Tell me Jason, who tried to defraud who?"

Protip: Don't ask questions rhetorically if others may not see them as such.

Also, perhaps it's time someone contacted Albert Petersen and found out whether he likes being slandered over a lawsuit he won.

"The truth is you are the fraud by having to resort to digging up anything and everything you can to try and discredit those you can't defeat with intellect, logic or factual evidence. You are pathetic."

Leaving aside the question of fairness to Jason, this just isn't what 'fraud' means. No wonder Wolter fails to grasp that he wasn't the one defrauded in that lawsuit he lost.

"It now time for you to go back to the basement and think up more of your nasty drivel which only inspires me."

Scott Wolter sounds mad. Are you mad, Scott? (I know you're reading this. You're mad, aren't you?)

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Jason Colavito link
12/27/2014 09:13:14 am

How confusing! We are supposed to accept the rules of evidence for a court of law when it comes to Wolter's evidence for fringe history, but when the evidence is about an event directly involving him, the judge was too "confused" to rule right?

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EP
12/27/2014 09:35:04 am

In his own mind, Scott Wolter is always right. He is the judge, the jury and the executioner of the skeptics, the academic conspiracy, and the... Vatican, I guess?

It is truly remarkable how shameless this man really is.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/27/2014 07:24:34 am

Oh, wow …

During the last three decades, interest in and dollar values of "agates" in general have been increasing steadily … So there is a lot of buying and selling going on, much of it informally between individuals …

Unfortunately these transactions sometimes include a rather murky provenance … and on occasion -- yes -- a "Brazil" agate can be and has been mistaken for a much more valuable Lake Superior agate … It does happen … Every buyer, even an expert buyer, should always beware …

I am frequently asked to identify a rock or mineral or gem specimen, and my first question is ALWAYS, "Where did you get it … ??? Where was it found … ???" … and tragically often, the answers is, "I don't know … " which then can render the ID a bit trickier …

Regarding "agates" in general, it is true that an experienced eye often can quickly easily differentiate a stone from one deposit or another almost at a glance … But not always … Most collector-experts HAVE seen a "Brazil" agate that COULD be mistaken for a Lake Superior agate … And if the person presenting the stone is quite sure that, "Oh, yes, my Grandpa found this thirty years ago … " Well ...

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EP
12/27/2014 07:28:20 am

Rev., are you the "third party" referenced in the judgment of Peterson v. Wolter?

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Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/27/2014 07:42:51 am

LOL … No …

I was involved in another court case a few years ago, however, as a witness against a certain individual … That person may well have been responsible for having successfully passed off a "Brazil" agate as a much more valuable Lake Superior agate … But I don't know that to be so ...

These days, such kind of scams happen a lot on internet auction sites, where, say a small Lake Superior agate worth maybe five dollars is advertised as a "RARE !!!" stone worth $250 … Again, a smart buyer should always beware … Even an expert sometimes can be fooled ...

EP
12/27/2014 07:46:47 am

Why don't you tell us again about how Scott Wolter is "not an essentially dishonest person"? That one always warms my heart.

Matt Mc
12/27/2014 11:21:52 am

So what you are saying Phil is that if Wolter's buyer was smart he would of noticed right away that Wolter's stone was not what was advertised. Then he would of never bought the stone, discovered the fraud, and the sued Wolter.

Makes total sense, I mean how can we fault Wolter? and to top it off the only reason he was found guilty was because the judge was confused.

I mean it is not like Wolter has demonstrated a chain of questionable ethics at all. I mean he was a college football player and he has a friend of 25 years who is a priest that likes to poke fun of peoples ethnic backgrounds, oh yeah and Wolter loves to milk the white power crowd for money. Oh yeah don't forget lying on a CV and then deny he lied on a CV, I mean nothing to question at all.

EP
12/27/2014 11:33:06 am

Not to mention mishandling the Kensington Rune Stone to the point where it is now incapable of yeilding dating evidence.

Scott Wolter's public record is undeniable: He is either an incompetent or a fraud (or both).

Matt Mc
12/27/2014 11:55:39 am

I did not see any reason to mention that just like I did not feel the need to mention Nazi Speeches or crazy Holy Bloodline friends who according to his own family members is not the correct bloodline.

Clint Knapp
12/27/2014 05:25:37 pm

Phil, you should be aware that when you say you were involved in a court case as a witness against "a certain individual" in a thread about a specific court case between Scott Wolter and Albert Peterson, you make it sound as though that individual was one of the two men involved in this case. Otherwise, why not say "another individual"?

So I ask you plainly; are you confiding that you bore witness under oath against Scott Wolter or Albert Peterson?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/28/2014 05:39:44 am

"Clint" --

No … I have never been a party or a witness in a case involving Scott Wolter ...

EP
12/28/2014 05:46:52 am

Too bad. You've been practicing on this blog for so long and it has gone to waste so far...

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 06:01:38 am

"EP" --

Pay closer attention, please …

I responded to "Joe D" re: whether I agreed that Peterson had treated Scott Wolter unfairly … I am not in a position to make that call …

But, re: the case overall, yes, I believe that the judge decided wrongly, for the reasons I have discussed (above) …

Those are two different questions, you see ...

EP
12/29/2014 06:24:10 am

Everyone realizes the last point, Sherlock.

Now, which parts of the judge's findings do you think are false or questionable?

Did you even read the judgment? Or perhaps you don't want to, for fear it might make you question your deeply held beliefs? (Not that a priest would ever feel that way, of course!)

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 10:00:58 am

I do not believe that Scott Wolter knowing perpetrated a fraud, for the reasons I have already stated ...

EP
12/29/2014 10:07:42 am

Did you actually read the judgment?

Or are you basing your conviction concerning this issue on prior experience distinct from your acquaintance with this issue?

Because the latter would be silly.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 10:18:34 am

"EP" --

Look, courts, judges and juries make mistakes … Do you really believe that "OJ" didn't do the deed … ??? You think that Casey Anthony is "innocent" … ?? OTOH, everybody convicted in a judicial process IS guilty-guilty-guilty … ???

My decision in this case is based upon ... WHAT ... I ... KNOW -- about Scott Wolter, about agates (and the agate marketplace) and about the fallibilities of the court system ...

EP
12/29/2014 10:20:59 am

But did you read the judgment? You know, the pdf file linked at the bottom of this blog post.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 10:31:14 am

Does the court record include transcripts or letters or other documents demonstrating that Scott Wolter KNEW that it was a "Brazil" agate, i.e., that he was intentionally perpetrating a fraud … ???

Yes or No … ???

(hint: no) ...

J.A Dickey
12/29/2014 10:37:20 am

I assumed its easier to make a big mistake with diamonds
than it is with opals or agates, but mistakes can be easily made.

I think Scott Wolter entered into a thankless exchange that only
left everyone involved feeling confused, angry and cheated.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 10:52:07 am

"J. A. Dickey" --

Yes and no … There are objective international standards for grading diamonds which are not easy to master, but the standards are *there* … and they are objective ...

The matter of grading and valuing fine agates is not so objective, however, but the very highest grades of fine agates can fetch tens of thousands of dollars for a single stone … In fact, the world famous "Hooded Owl" agate is valued at about US$2,000,000 …

Many years ago I made a conscious personal decision NOT to enter the earth science marketplace precisely because of the amazing and agonizing hassles … I observe it closely up close, but I keep my shirt ON ...

EP
12/29/2014 10:57:29 am

"(hint: no) ..."

Actually, the *court* record does. It is what the judgment is based on. Unless you're accusing the judge of gross incompetence...

You're still avoiding the question: Did you read the judgment that Jason posted? Or are you defending Scott Wolter in this matter based entirely on your "25+ years" etc etc?

J.A Dickey
12/29/2014 10:58:58 am

i stand corrected. thanks! with my luck were i to trade
in gems or gemstones, i'd cut the deal that would bankrupt
or beggar me for what i don't know at that point in time!

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 11:08:05 am

"J. A. Dickey" --

You got*it*in*one … That whole tangled deal-gone-wrong and subsequent lawsuit was nothing but a mixed-up mistake and misunderstanding … And as civil legal judgments go, the sums involved were relatively paltry ...

Only Me
12/29/2014 03:38:03 pm

Phil, you believe "That whole tangled deal-gone-wrong and subsequent lawsuit was nothing but a mixed-up mistake and misunderstanding". That's fine by me. Neither of us was involved, and I can only go by the judge's ruling.

At the very least, however, Scott is guilty of being irresponsible. He was acknowledged by the judge, and by extension the court, as an expert in point 5 of the judgment. This highlights the judge's opinion in point 4 "That the representations by defendant to plaintiff...when defendant knew, or with the exercise of reasonable care or competence, should have known, that said representations were false". The judge even considered the possibility of a mistake, by further saying "or said representations were made by the defendant to plaintiff without knowing whether they were true or false." That's why I don't understand why he is insinuating that Mr. Peterson attempted to defraud *him*.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 03:57:11 pm

"Only Me" --

I am Scott Wolter's friend and colleague -- not his representative or agent or attorney … so you would have to ask him about the "Peterson" dust*up ...

Only Me
12/29/2014 04:13:16 pm

No, thank you. That seems to be a sore subject, and like I said, I can only go by the judgment.

I wasn't looking for your take on Scott's assertion. That was an observation, based on Scott's comments. My reply was to show that while you think the judge decided wrongly, I think he demonstrated careful deliberation of possible factors in the chain of events leading to the lawsuit.

Scott Hamilton
12/27/2014 07:49:18 am

I'm just going to assume that all those elipses are representing the phrase, "but Scott Wolter saw the opportunity to make some money he didn't earn, and is really embarrassed he got caught."

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Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/27/2014 07:56:32 am

LOL …
Please note that my comments (above) are all factual in character, are meant to be informative, with NO inter-personal juvenile snarky remarks …

My comments all come from my own reasonably extensive personal knowledge and experience …

*whatever*

You guys … I dunno …

*shrug* ...

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EP
12/27/2014 08:03:42 am

I have known Rev. Phil Gotsch for 25+ years as both a personal friend and a professional colleague...

I assure you, his comments are all factual in character...

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Only Me
12/27/2014 08:25:21 am

Phil, would it be safe to assume that the cases where Brazilian agate *can* be mistaken for Lake Superior agate involved small samples? I mean, according to the court files, the two agates involved were (rounding up) 15 and 17 lbs., respectively.

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Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/27/2014 05:16:02 pm

"Only Me" --

I haven't seen the stones in question, so I can't give a specific opinion ...

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Only Me
12/27/2014 06:02:37 pm

That's cool. I'm just curious as to how easy or often it is to mistake one for the other and if overall size makes a difference.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/28/2014 05:31:54 am

"Only Me" --

As with so much in life, "it depends" … "Size" matters less in identification than the basic salient features …

I haven't seen the particular stones in question, but my guess would be that they display a combination of features that could be seen as characteristic of Lake Superior agates -- color and banding pattern, (probable) presence of significant euhedral quartz, nature of markings on the outer skin (husk) that could be typical …

Again, I have seen occasional misidentification of a "Brazil" agate as a Lake Superior agate … It's not common, but it happens, usually innocently ...

EP
12/28/2014 05:48:16 am

That's not what the judge thought after considering all the evidence presented by both sides. The judge thought Scott Wolter was deliberately dishonest and/or blatantly incompetent.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/28/2014 06:14:00 am

"EP" --

A judge is qualified to give a legal opinion or judgment … but is unlikely to be an expert in THAT question at issue …

So … *shrug*

EP
12/28/2014 06:25:39 am

But he had two parties experienced in these matters explain it to him, right? I mean, Scott Wolter wrote a book about agates and he was defending himself, right?

Right?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/28/2014 07:08:35 am

"EP" --

Not having seen the stones in question, I could only speculate as to what the judge saw and what the judge thought about the stones … but I am quite certain that the judge was not an expert on THAT matter ...

EP
12/28/2014 07:11:26 am

In Rev. Phil Gotsch's eyes, Scott Wolter still can do no wrong.

What would it take, Rev.?

Matt Mc
12/28/2014 07:16:40 am

The judge does not have to be an expert on the stone, he however is an expert on the law, which in this case was determined that Scott broke.

Now whether Wolter broke the law purposely or through incompetence that was not determined. Either or reflects poorly on Wolter, one says Wolter at the time was not that good at his field of study and profession, the other says that he is a fraudster and would deliberately mislead and lie to clients in order to make money.

I personally think it is a combination of both since Wolter's actions have shown he will sell whatever he can to whomever he can and is not at all concerned about ethics and truth.

.
12/28/2014 10:25:44 am

i admit i said "zoo" and "red pencil" in a post.

"red lining" is what banks do to neighborhoods.

Rev Phil has my respect. he does loyally defend

Scott. he doesn't really go on for hours about these

excursions. Scott has been rather direct & honest

about what he thinks. Personally, i'd take the Rev's

advice about agates if i were to toy with online deals!

I had hoped having Scott and Jason talking would

clear the air. Foolish me. Optimistic me. So it goes.

Jason D.
12/28/2014 11:12:51 am

""EP" --

A judge is qualified to give a legal opinion or judgment … but is unlikely to be an expert in THAT question at issue …

So … *shrug*"

I would imagine that third-party expert witnesses would have been brought in so that the judge could make an informed decision on several questions including the origin of the questionable agate and whether someone of Scott's training could have reasonably been able to tell the difference, which is specifically listed as a finding of the judge. Scott has served as that type of expert witness in other cases if I recall correctly.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/28/2014 01:57:57 pm

"Jason D" --

Again, I have seen multiple thousands upon thousands of specimens over the decades … It is possible, it can happen, it has happened that a "Brazil" agate may be misidentified -- innocently -- as a much more expensive Lake Superior agate, for several reasons which I have already explained (above) … And again, clear provenance is not always at hand and often can be murky at best … "Oh, yes … My
Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago … "

Is it a TECHNICAL fraud to deliver for sale a "Brazil" agate that is represented as a Lake Superior agate … ??? TECHNICALLY, I suppose it is … But it can happen as an INNOCENT mistake that began with OTHERS … It happens … I know this to be the case ...

Look, the boys and girls gathered in these blogs to bash Scott Wolter probably don't know earth science from Kim Kardashian … So who cares what they think … ??? Not I ...

EP
12/28/2014 02:11:17 pm

We also don't know a Nazi rally from a Nazi lecture...

Matt Mc
12/28/2014 02:30:26 pm

And it appears Scott Wolter did not either (at least at the time of the sale) or he knowingly sold a fraud.


Again a judge does not need to know geology he needs to know the law. In this case the judge found your friend to be knowingly deceptive or lacked proper knowledge. These facts cannot change.


Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/28/2014 02:39:15 pm

Every decision by a judge or a jury is supposed to be predicated upon both the law and the facts of the case … Sometimes the decision is later found upon appeal to have been made in error …

No judge is the all-knowing God or even a god … So … *shrug*

Again, not having seen the stones in question, I can't give a responsible opinion … nor can anyone else in this blog ...

Matt Mc
12/28/2014 02:50:00 pm

I am not asking for your opinion others might, but I know I would not. I know you enjoy stones but I do not trust your ability to tell the truth. You have demonstrated on this blog that you are a good parrot, that you can evade questions with your parroting, that you find lies and half truths okay when they are for entertainments sake, and you like to make comments about people ethnic backgrounds and find Nazi speeches as things of curiosity (even more sadly it was during the time of the civil rights movement). So I have no idea why anyone would find your opinion on anything worth any merit.

In this court case, your friend was found guilty, you can spin it however you want, but he was found guilty, There was no appeal, so guilt was accepted.

That is how the law works. We are talking about the same person who hold court proceedings equal to peer review, the same person who frequently when challenged says his evidence would win in court.

I guess his feelings about the effectiveness of the legal system are only valid when it is in his favor.

EP
12/28/2014 02:50:05 pm

Did you read the judgment, Rev?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/28/2014 03:10:20 pm

The way these things go*down in the real world is that a calculation is made as to whether an appeal is worth the $$$ and hassles involved …
*shrug*

But … Are you suggesting that no judge ever hands down a wrong decision .. ??? NEVER … ???

Matt Mc
12/28/2014 03:23:44 pm

are you suggesting that the judgement was wrong?

Fact is Wolter was found guilty of fraud, he accepted that guilt and did not appeal. Was the judge wrong? In this case I say no because guilt was accepted.

These are the facts and since that is what we as the public have to base our opinions off that is what we do. I would give Wolter the benefit of the doubt if he had not demonstrated a pattern of lying to bolster his opinions, the fake Degree comes to mind, then the lie claiming he never listed the Degree on his CV when he even stated himself on this blog that he removed it from his CV. Or the claims that he illegally removed material from his most sacred runestone ones he denied only later to admit to it. Or his careful testing of said runestone that made it so no other age testing could be done to the stone rendering future research useless. The pattern represents a person who practices in deception and incompetence.

These are the facts

Now you can make all the claims you want about his integrity but as I have mentioned in many threads before your own integrity is questionable so why should anyone take your word?



Joe D.
12/29/2014 01:20:06 am

So Phil,

Per your argument you stated that it could have been an honest mistake in identifying the type of agate. If this was the case then when the mistake was shown to Mr. Wolter why wouldn't he try and compensate Mr. Petersen prior to any lawsuit since he is an honest and ethical person? Or if the appeal process was going to be too expensive to pursue and he just wanted to pay the judgment and move on with his life why did not explain that in his response to Jason. It would have been easily understood if he stated that he felt the Judge was incorrect in his findings but going through the appeal process was just to expensive and time consuming. This would have been easily justifiable. But instead he states the judge was confused and he was the real victim of Mr. Petersen. In every case Scott tries to show he is justified in his actions and is never incorrect.

As a close personal friend of Scotts do you agree with his work in the last couple of episodes is he correct in his assertion about the French stealing Welsh land claims? Also is Jason incorrect in the pointing out Scotts errors?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 02:28:23 am

Given my own experience and knowledge, I believe that the judge's decision was made in error ...

Matt Mc
12/29/2014 02:42:22 am

But you are not a judge nor or you qualified to be one.

You can believe the error all you want fact was Wolter is guilty in the eyes of the law. He accepted that guilt so guilt stands.

EP
12/29/2014 02:48:55 am

Which part of it is erroneous, Rev? Could you name the numbered points in the judgment with which you disagree?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 02:54:29 am

Again … Based upon my own experience and knowledge, I know that it is possible to misidentify a "Brazil" agate as a Lake Superior agate … It happens, usually innocently … It just does …

As to a legal judgment of "guilty" … Well, no … The case at issue was a civil case, not a criminal case …

And again, judges and juries make mistakes … Sometimes a "guilty" person is acquitted, sometimes an innocent person is convicted … It happens ...

EP
12/29/2014 02:56:04 am

Let me repeat my question: Which part of it is erroneous, Rev? Could you name the numbered points in the judgment with which you disagree?

Matt Mc
12/29/2014 03:00:34 am

It lot like Wolter does not have a track record of stating that fake stone and artifacts are genuine in order to gain profit. His whole secondary career is based off that premise.

And of course Rev. thinks he was innocent they are birds of a feather and both have a system of ethics that prevents them from admitting to any kind of wrong doing.

The biggest thing this court case has shown is the Wolter has a long history of lying and deceitfulness in order to make a profit and that Wolter is not able to admit or own up to his errors if it casts doubt upon himself.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 03:33:30 am

You buys crack me up … Your extraordinary irrational hatred of Scott Wolter … is simply breath-taking …

I dunno … *shrug*

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 03:37:11 am

"guys"
(everybody needs an editor, eh … ???)

EP
12/29/2014 03:38:28 am

As opposed you your ordinary, rational love of Scott Wolter? :)

Matt Mc
12/29/2014 03:40:58 am

I do not hate Wolter at all, I do dislike people that knowingly lie to the general public to make money. Wolter as a public figure is no different than the snake oil salesman of a hundred years ago.

IMHO people like him hurt historical and scientific advancement and they should and need to be exposed for what they are.

I dislike you however, I in general dislike most people who have racist tendencies and even more so because you hide behind the curtain of religion. As bad as people of Wolters ilk are yours are of the worse kind.

As for hating people, I really do not hate anyone, hatred is a horrible thing and can destroy ones whole moral fiber so I do not subscribe
to it.

EP
12/29/2014 03:49:01 am

So... for the third time: Which part of the judge's findings is erroneous, Rev? Could you name the numbered points in the judgment with which you disagree?

Joe D.
12/29/2014 04:18:12 am

Since you think the judgement was incorrect do you believe that Wolter was wronged by Peterson as he stated in his response? Also what faults do you find in Jason's actual review of Scott's work?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 04:42:43 am

LOL …

Again … (a) provenance … (b) identification … (c) innocent mistake … (d) get over it …

And again and again …

Scott Wolter is the host of the H2 America Unearthed TV shows … The are commercially produced and aired in order to attract and hold the attention of a viewing audience long enough for them to see the paid adverts …

And again and again and again …

I have known Scott Wolter as a personal friend and professional colleague for 25+ years … We have worked together on a number of scientific educational projects … I know him to be an honest person of good character …

*shrug*

EP
12/29/2014 04:49:32 am

So we must either ignore all the evidence presented over the years on this blog and elsewhere, or we must conclude that Rev. Phil Gotsch is a terrible judge of character.

I think the choice is easy.

Joe D.
12/29/2014 04:59:42 am

I do not think you actually read my question. I asked if you think wolter was wronged by Peterson as wolter claims in his own comments? Also I did not say anything wrong about scott as a person or the quality of his show. I asked where you find errors in Jason's review of Scott's work, including his show, books, or other media appearances?

In other words I and everyone here understands your opinion on scott as a person. But where I am curious if you disagree with Jason's reviews and research in refuting Scott's work?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 05:15:21 am

"Joe D" --

I am not in a position to render a judgment, no matter how strenuously the Wolter Bashers command me to do so ...

EP
12/29/2014 05:18:32 am

You said that the judge's findings are mistaken. You're contradicting yourself.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 07:30:42 am

"EP" --

I replied to "Joe D" that I am not in a position to judge whether Peterson treated Scott Wolter unfairly …

But I do think that (as per my postings already made above) that the judge decided the case wrongly …

Those are two different questions ...

Joe D.
12/29/2014 09:03:56 am

Phil,

I appreciate your response but what about the judges decision do you not agree with? Do you believe that Scott did not misidentify the agate in question (intentional or by accident)? Or do you think Mr Peterson misrepresented the events and transaction?

Also I know I have asked a couple of times but I am curious on your take on Jason's reviews (not anything personal, just his reviews, research and conclusions)

Jason D.
12/29/2014 09:05:07 am

"Again, I have seen multiple thousands upon thousands of specimens over the decades … It is possible, it can happen, it has happened that a "Brazil" agate may be misidentified -- innocently -- as a much more expensive Lake Superior agate, for several reasons which I have already explained (above) … And again, clear provenance is not always at hand and often can be murky at best … "Oh, yes … My
Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago … ""

I never said at any point that Scott purposely misled the plaintiff. The only finding was that Scott should have been able to tell the difference, that's a finding of fact in the ruling given in a court of law, which is the standard Scott himself often uses. I make no judgement that Scott did anything intentionally wrong, it was early in his career and he could have made a simple mistake.


"Is it a TECHNICAL fraud to deliver for sale a "Brazil" agate that is represented as a Lake Superior agate … ??? TECHNICALLY, I suppose it is … But it can happen as an INNOCENT mistake that began with OTHERS … It happens … I know this to be the case ...

Again, at no point do I ascribe any motives to Scott. I merely stated that in a case like this, the court would use third-party experts since you seemed to imply that the judge's lack of geological training was a factor in his decision. You are really good at responding to what wasn't said and ignoring what was.


"Look, the boys and girls gathered in these blogs to bash Scott Wolter probably don't know earth science from Kim Kardashian … So who cares what they think … ??? Not I ..."

I don't even know where to go with this, her ass may be big as boulders but I don't think anyone here confuses her for a geological feature. I'm not bashing Wolter at all and I think a lot of people here are here commenting on his somewhat flimsy hypotheses, not on him personally. It is Wolter himself that frequently uses the 'court of law' as a standard of proof and uses that forum to bolster his credentials.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 10:07:05 am

"Jason D" --

Thank you for your admission that distinguishing a "Brazil" agate from a Lake Superior agate may NOT be so easily straightforward as, say, seeing the obvious differences between a football and a tennis ball …

EP
12/29/2014 10:10:04 am

How nice it must be to look at words and see what one wants to see, instead of what is written...

Yet another quality one would expect from a priest...

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 10:25:06 am

"EP" --

LOL ...

Thank you for your unintended compliment … Indeed, as an ordained clergy, I know how to resist*resist*resist "The Spanish Inquisition," no matter how relentlessly they insist that I must parrot THEIR views … It's called, "integrity," you see ...

EP
12/29/2014 10:38:16 am

You've known Scott Wolter for decades and you still defend him

You wouldn't know integrity if it was getting drilled into your scrotum.

Joe D.
12/29/2014 11:00:46 am

what about the judges decision do you not agree with? Do you believe that Scott did not misidentify the agate in question (intentional or by accident)? Or do you think Mr Peterson misrepresented the events and transaction?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 11:02:04 am

"EP" --

LOL ...

Well, again … I have known Scott Wolter as a personal friend and professional colleague for 25+ years … We have worked together on a number of scientific educational projects … I know him to be an honest person of good character …

You … ??? I have no idea who (the Hell) YOU are … Just because YOU don't like Scott Wolter, I should roll over on command and agree with YOU (even though your own supposed knowledge of Scott Wolter is nothing but second-third hand gossip) … ???

LOL … Oh, please ...

EP
12/29/2014 11:23:00 am

When did I ask you to agree with me? I asked you some questions, which you stil haven't answered. (And whenever people point it out, you compare them to Spanish Inquisition or say you're being waterboarded, or something equally inappropriate.)

But hey, keep making your repetitive and useless posts. They only serve to drive Internet traffic here. I'm sure everyone is going to take your unsupported assertions over all the other evidence and think Scott Wolter is just a swell guy.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 11:30:42 am

"EP" --

I have been entirely straightforward and clear as to my "take" on this case (as based upon real world factual knowledge) … You just don't like it … *shrug* …

So, yes, I suppose you and I will continue to disagree … It is your right to do so, and I have that right also … Do we agree on that … ???

EP
12/29/2014 11:57:42 am

I don't even know whether you've read the judgment. How am I supposed to know about how much of what you said we can agree?

Also, no. I am not going to agree to disagree. In fact, it is hypocritical of you to propose that, since if that's the right thing to do you should have long stopped wasting your time on Wolter apologetics.

Joe D.
12/29/2014 12:45:12 pm

I hate to be a broken record, but you stated that you disagreed with the judge. Now based on the record it seems a pretty straight forward case so I specifically ask for a third time. Again I am not trying to attack Wolter or you but since you stated your thoughts on the judgment.

what about the judges decision do you not agree with? Do you believe that Scott did not misidentify the agate in question (intentional or by accident)? Or do you think Mr Peterson misrepresented the events and transaction?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 01:27:10 pm

"EP" and "Joe D" --

*sigh* … I'll try it again … I don't understand why you're not getting this, but here … (again)

I disagree with the judge
that Scott Wolter
either knowingly or negligently
perpetrated a fraud … PERIOD …
Clear … ???

As to "Peterson" … I've never met or dealt with him … I wasn't there when the original deal was made, nor was I there at trial … Whether he was seriously wronged or not, I cannot judge (just as I also decline to judge whether "Peterson" harmed Scott Wolter …) …

The whole bit was a confusing deal gone bad, including misunderstandings and (apparently) an innocent misidentification ...

Jason D.
12/29/2014 01:27:28 pm

""Jason D" --

Thank you for your admission that distinguishing a "Brazil" agate from a Lake Superior agate may NOT be so easily straightforward as, say, seeing the obvious differences between a football and a tennis ball … "

I'll also give Scott the benefit of the doubt that even though he had written a book on agates a year before, this was also still in that period of time where he was finding himself after his father's death. I've seen experts in many fields make a mistake.

I'll also mention that some people above have said that Wolter was 'convicted of Fraud' and that's not the case at all, this was a civil judgement that Wolter provided an item that was not as originally described, there were no criminal findings at all.

I'm not in the habit of defending Scott Wolter, but let's not blow things out of proportion. That said, I hope Rev. Phil and the other Wolter defenders can accept that in a court of law, a judge has ruled that Wolter mis-represented this agate (intentionally or not) and had to in turn make that person whole financially. Lets not Monday Morning Quarterback that decision because the judge isn't a geologist. I really don't get how Wolter himself feels the Plaintiff slighted him.

EP
12/29/2014 01:36:08 pm

What can I say? Blessed are the self-deluded, for theirs is peace of mind.

Joe D.
12/29/2014 02:25:26 pm

Phil,

you specifically stated that you felt the judge made incorrect in his judgment. So I specifically asked where you felt he was wrong. You have not pointed out where the judge is wrong. You just think he did not intentionally defraud Mr. Peterson. But that does not take away that he did, if accidently it does not matter, misrepresent the agate that he had in his possession. But that does not mean he did so in a malicious way. But that also doesn't mean the judge was in error which is why I was asking you why you thought the judge was wrong in the first place.

Clint Knapp
12/29/2014 03:15:14 pm

More than that, Wolter misrepresented the outcome of the lawsuit itself on his own blog, just days ago, when he stated it was a $1,500 agate he tried to give back.

Let us not forget that in the same discussion he is the one who resorted to opining on Jason's home life, did not answer any direct questions, and routinely misrepresents his own contested conclusions about "The Big Three" as wholly conclusive authentication of that which he has absolutely zero professional expertise in.

These things do not "an honest person of good character …" make. They make him an egotistical jackass using his qualification in one tangentially related field as excuses to pass down unqualified judgements as "fact" and publicly make personal insults toward people he knows nothing about.

tm
12/29/2014 03:15:31 pm

"… We have worked together on a number of scientific educational projects … I know him to be an honest person of good character …"

Three words: long range locator

Jerky
12/29/2014 03:18:26 pm

Allow me to jump in here.

There is a patch from a Boy Scout camp called Philmont, each year they make a patch that looks the same, but has small differences, a somewhat change in the background color, a change to the color of the border thread, and so on.

Examples of the Arrowhead patch:
http://www.angelfire.com/nm/philpatches/arrowhead.html

A patch from one year can be wroth hundreds of dollars, while a patch from the year before or year after can be worth only a few bucks. Foe some one with no expertise in the mater, you can find your self ripped off. Some one can sell you a worthless patch for thousands of dollars, or they can talk you out of a 500$ patch for only a 15$.

I find it hard to fathom that Scott mis I.D.ed that rock. It would be like some one trying to sell me a tan bordered arrowhead patch from philmont circa 1998 at the price the more valued 1999 patch that has a red border.

I use this as an example because these patches, in the Scouting community are highly valued as you can really only get one if you are lucky enough to go to philmont, witch not many scouts can do. People who know these patches well will even stoop to stealing them from you just so they can sell it to another scout.

So yes, I have seen people trade one patch for a more valued patch while claiming there own patch is the same value to or worth a little bit more thin the one there trying to get.

In this case, it would seem Scott used his "I'm a Geologist that wrote a book on Lake Superior Agates, and this is a Lake Superior Agate, Trust me, I'm an expert!" to scam a shop owner out of the real McCoy. It's a classic scam that almost never fails. Except when you try to use it against some one who also knows what there talking about.

Come to think of it, this might also explain why Scott doesn't trust experts. Think about it, if he scammed a guy using his expertise in geology... He could also think the experts are doing the same thing.



EP
12/29/2014 03:25:51 pm

"Three words: long range locator"

My resolve is so hard right now, you don't even understand :)

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 03:51:04 pm

Okay … At the risk of being repetitive, I'll repeat myself … again ...

Through the years I have seen literally multiple thousands upon thousands of specimens …

Many experienced expert collectors can identify a particular specimen quickly, almost at a glance … But not always …

It can happen, it does happen on occasion, that (sometimes; rarely) a "Brazil" agate can be innocently misidentified as a much more expensive Lake Superior agate … I know this to be true, based upon my own extensive real word experience … It happens … That's just the way it is …

This problem can be exacerbated by the issue of "provenance," which not infrequently can be murky at best … "Oh, yes, my Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago … "

I am frequently asked to identify a rock, gem, or mineral and the first thing I always ask is, "Where did you get it … ??? Where is it from … ???" and unfortunately commonly, the response is, "I don't know … " thus rendering the ID question sometimes a bit trickier …

So … Not having seen the stones in question, I can't give my opinion on THEM … But I can definitively state that it can happen -- it does happen -- that a "Brazil" agate can sometimes be misidentified as a Lake Superior agate …

I believe that in the case under discussion, there was simply an innocent error made … There was no deliberate or negligent fraud engaged ...

Joe D.
12/30/2014 01:20:37 am

So again, you have stated multiple times you feel that the judge was in error on this. But where was he on error? I am not saying that Wolter did it intentionally, I have no idea if Wolter knew it was a Brazilian agate or did not. But based on the information provided by the documents Wolter was ordered to compensate for the value of the agate. So just because you do not like the results of the case does not mean that the Judge was incorrect.

It could have been an innocent misidentification but that doesn't mean that Mr. Peterson should not be given the stone back or compensated if Wolter already sold it. I think you should have probably read the judgment prior to stating that the presiding Judge was incorrect in his verdict.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 01:47:12 am

"Joe D" --

Well, see … This case from the past is NOT being presented and hashed in the blog out of even-handed curiosity, a desire to learn something interesting, or any such thing …

It is here because and only because it is being brandished as a weapon in the War on Scott Wolter …

My participation in these "discussions" is simply to provide a voice of experience and reason ...

EP
12/30/2014 02:02:10 am

"This case from the past is NOT being presented and hashed in the blog out of even-handed curiosity, a desire to learn something interesting, or any such thing … It is here because and only because it is being brandished as a weapon in the War on Scott Wolter …"

LOL, Jason is waging a (no, THE) War on Scott Wolter. Rev. Phil Gotsch, descending into Steve St. Clair territory.

"My participation in these "discussions" is simply to provide a voice of experience and reason ..."

Look how successful everyone thinks you're being.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 02:13:37 am

"EP" --

LOL …

Thus you unwittingly nicely illustrate the very point I made … Thank you ...

EP
12/30/2014 02:22:50 am

Boy, I sure got my comeuppance! Scott Wolter is blessed to have eloquent and insightful advocates like the Reverend Phil Gotsch!

Kal
12/27/2014 09:16:24 am

SW means to release it in order to trap bloggers into 'feeling sorry for him' or possibly 'libeling themselves' but it would seem the only one trapping anyone is SW ensnared in his own. Amusing also is that in one episode he looked for the Holy Grail in a well and used as back hoe. Charming. If it wasn't made up, he would have utterly crushed any such cup in the dig. Seeing one stone for another and selling it would be bad too, for anyone foolish enough to buy any of it wholesale from someone of his expertise.

Okay so he's not on meds, but he might need them.

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EP
12/27/2014 09:37:54 am

Nah, what he needs is for life to give him a mighty kick in the posterior.

Fortunately, it's like he's doing his best to make it happen.

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EP
12/27/2014 11:20:03 am

By the way, while no one is more eager than I am to discuss Scott Wolter's latest loss of dignity, Jan Brenner's book is really worth a look (especially for free!). It is a wonderfully readable "advanced introductory" text on the ancient mystery cults and their influence and historiography. Plus, it is surprisingly humorous:

"After a run of rather depressing years, life was looking up for Rudolf Steiner (1861–1925) at the turn of the century."

"Womanising is not alien to religious entrepreneurs, as many an American fundamentalist television preacher has shown."

Etc., etc. Do check it out, everybody! :)

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Shane Sullivan
12/27/2014 12:07:58 pm

"Your mastery of the Internet has created a following for sure..."

So, Jason, what does it feel like to be the Master of the Internet?

(You should add that to your bio!)

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EP
12/27/2014 12:24:18 pm

Would it be an *Honorary* Master of the Internet? :)

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Shane Sullivan
12/27/2014 05:54:07 pm

It would be unethical to put that on his resume, as no actual coffee ever changed hands.

Duke of URL
12/28/2014 02:45:48 am

If I knew Jason's physical address, I think I'd order him a "Master of the Internet" coffeecup from Amazon.

EP
12/28/2014 03:32:12 am

Jason, are you reading this? Set up a PO box for this shit! :)

Joe S
12/30/2014 05:10:30 am

EP:

Not without a cup of coffee!

:-)

EP
12/30/2014 06:40:45 am

An Honorary Masters first thing in the morning keeps my resolve rock-hard! :D

Only Me
12/27/2014 12:41:43 pm

Per Scott Wolter's comment to Jason on his own blog:

[Albert Peterson initiated the deal with me out of greed, not telling me he had a third party wanting to buy big agates from him. When rejected by that third party, he panicked, claimed fraud and then filed a lawsuit in his home town.]

Here's the HUGE red flag that challenges that accusation, provided by Scott himself, in that same comment:

[Do you really think I tried to defraud a man who had been collecting agates from around the world for twice as long as I had been alive?]

So, Scott has implied that Mr. Peterson was a reputable collector who knew his stuff. He would have no problem selling Lake Superior agate to an interested buyer. If this is true, Scott's involvement was *not necessary*!

Another HUGE red flag is contained in the court records:

[9. That the reasonable value of plaintiff's Lake Superior agate as of March 29, 1988, was $2,500.00, of which plaintiff has received the sum of $500.00 from the party to whom defendant subsequently sold said agate.]

I'm reading this to mean the unnamed third party found out something wasn't on the level with the sale.

BUT, somehow Scott is the victim of fraud.

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EP
12/27/2014 12:58:30 pm

Scott Wolter's entire public image is built around appearing intrepid and in control.

It is not surprising that he is holding his head high as he marches into a bullet storm of his own creation.

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Jerky
12/29/2014 08:32:07 am

Makes me wounder about other court cases from that state involving one Scott Wolter that I have heard rumors of...

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EP
12/29/2014 11:02:46 am

I know of one other one, involving insurance. I believe he won, but I'd like to know more about it...

Jerky
12/29/2014 03:50:05 pm

EP, so would I...

EP
12/30/2014 04:50:52 am

Minnesota case No. 10-C5-96-000519

lurkster
12/27/2014 12:56:06 pm

Sometimes, shit hits the fan on the internet and then disappears later when people realized they kicked the hornets nest. So I archived a copy of the dust up on SW blog for posterity's sake:

https://archive.today/8Cyzq

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A.D.
12/27/2014 01:08:54 pm

Did Scott Wal-Nut really think you were a space alien theorist advocate?LOL
Did he think you were competition for his fake history sales pitch.There's tons of fake pseudohistorians competing each other to sell their crap no wonder he thought that.lol Bunk sells debunking doesn't

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Dan
12/27/2014 01:45:25 pm

I can't wait for the review of tonight's show.
Wolter just told a Native American to her face that the French were "stealing America" from the Welsh or the Norse.

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EP
12/27/2014 01:48:26 pm

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc4oajSpxC1qzytg1.jpg

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RLewis
12/27/2014 02:36:33 pm

Spoiler alert - America was originally colonized by ants.

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Clint Knapp
12/27/2014 03:03:26 pm

Shhhhh... don't tell Scott:
http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/TokpatheSecondWorld-Hopi.html

EP
12/27/2014 03:06:57 pm

Arcaheological evidence shows that the last of the Ant People perished at the hand of the invading Sea Monkeys.

Shane Sullivan
12/27/2014 05:53:24 pm

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P27cyhFo6E

Duke of URL
12/28/2014 02:49:19 am

Speaking for the Trilobites of the Great Nebraska Sea, /We Shall Return and Overcome/! Those arthropods can't keep their stolen land forever!

CHV
12/27/2014 02:13:46 pm

"I believe these maps were largely based on information derived from both earlier European and Chinese sources. I do agree that at this point it is hard to conclusively prove."

IMO, these two sentences speak VOLUMES as to Scott Wolter's personal attitude toward history. His personal beliefs carry far greater weight than any actual proof (or lack thereof).

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T
12/27/2014 04:45:57 pm

I'm frankly surprised that he asked to be "challenged" over this ridiculous episode. Perhaps he got antsy thinking that tonight's episode would lend him credibility. It didn't. However, the basic theory- a French carved stone from the 17th century- is certainly more palatable than most of his claims. But to then "ban" the criticism to the basement is undefendable. Hence my appearance.

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T
12/27/2014 04:49:05 pm

I understand puffery, but he should really change the name of his blog from "Scott Woltor Answers."

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CHV
12/28/2014 08:53:18 am

Every time Scott is challenged, he tends to think of himself as a heroic voice in the wilderness being shouted down by academic thugs. Yet what he does not understand is that one cannot build (or refute) an existing fact based on hearsay or sloppy research. It takes new facts to revise prior ones.

~~~~
12/29/2014 10:54:43 am

but this is why he becomes more and more heroic
as he sees himself drifting further and further away
from his goal of converting the skeptics in academia
to his point of view. there is a feedback loop at work!

tm
12/28/2014 02:09:57 am

The only way Wolter can get numbers to his blog is by generating especially dumbheaded controversy. The only blogs to get more posts than this one were the ones on his coffee cup masters and criticizing the Smithsonian. The rest of his numbers are pretty pathetic for a weekly blog.

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mike b
12/29/2014 12:58:37 am

I find it amazing that SW posted his blog about the show last night at 712 pm and at 855 am EST there are no replies on it, positive or negative. Its kind of hard to promote your "finds", opinions and hypothesis, when you (SW) don't allow opposite viewpoints to promote discussion. Great job as always Jason.

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B L
12/29/2014 03:26:38 am

I think the big takeaway from this Jason/Wolter conversation is.....

Scott Wolter, regardless of his multiple claims otherwise, probably visits Jason's blog on a regular basis. He has shown through his comments on his own blog that he knows what topics are being discussed over here. He shows familiarity with who says what about him on Jason's blog. And, through his comments about the lawsuit, he has displayed that he's been coming here for quite some time.

Unless he has a staff giving him daily briefings about Jason's blog and keeping a timeline for him, I would speculate that he's a regular visitor here.

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T
12/29/2014 04:12:11 am

I don't doubt that at all. Nothing could be clearer (unless it was carved in a rock).

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Clint Knapp
12/29/2014 04:59:12 am

Scott commented personally on the article about his fake Honorary Masters Degree, so it can be demonstrated that he was at least reading in that instance. His comments on his own blog conversation, however, state that he has been told about topics like Jason bringing up this whole court case.

If you'd like to see who the most likely candidate is for his source of information (because let's face it, Scott can't be bothered to read primary sources), look no further than this page and the continued efforts of one Rev. Phil Gotsch to defend Wolter's name any chance he gets, or the even less coherent trollings of one Steve St. Clair.

Wolter's own patronage is not necessarily required. He states regularly that he trusts what he is told by those who gain his respect or convince him personally, and these two are his friends. Allegedly.

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Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/29/2014 07:38:27 am

"Clint" --

LOL … My (frankly infrequent) posts in these blogs are about and only about what I know, as based upon my own knowledge and personal experience …

My postings here drive some guys over*the*edge, fairly much entirely because I decline to join in gossip and character assassination …

I dunno … *shrug* ...

EP
12/29/2014 09:26:47 am

Given how repetitive and vacuous your posts tend to be, "what you know" isn't very much. Certainly nothing anyone here seems to find interesting.

Clint Knapp
12/29/2014 03:29:03 pm

I'll thank you to stop putting my name in quotes as though it's made up. I use my real name just like you do, Phil, and I don't apply pretentious quotations to your name when addressing you.

.
12/29/2014 04:58:00 am

if the budget was not so tight, H2 neatly would have a staffer
delving into the reaction on the net to any and all episodes
but i think the accounting department is draconian and PR
is up there with with somebody else's underfunded R + D dep't

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EP
12/29/2014 05:04:37 am

I hope Jason is kind enough to deliver us from having to scroll though more of this drivel. Most of these posts fail to express coherent thoughts, even off-topic coherent thoughts!

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j*a*d
12/29/2014 05:47:29 am

"Unless he has a staff giving him daily briefings about Jason's blog and keeping a timeline for him, I would speculate that he's a regular visitor here." B L


i honestly think S.W only responds to the comments that are sent
to him and he seldom netsurfs over here. its the way he worded
his recent answers. maybe in casual conversation Steve StC said
a few things, maybe, but if people around S.W surf here, it might be
for their own set of reasons rather an an A&E agenda from H or H2!

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T
12/29/2014 05:55:11 am

"its the way he worded
his recent answers"

Because he would never say an incorrect thing..

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Dan
12/29/2014 06:23:25 am

Gunn is now over there trying to get Wolter to engage him about all that connected waterways nonsense.

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EP
12/29/2014 06:30:02 am

Scott Wolter has managed to assemble all the brightest lights of the Internet world: Gunn, JaredMithrandir, ., Steve StC...

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T
12/29/2014 06:55:32 am

Never say he didn't accomplish something.

Snarky
12/29/2014 03:53:15 pm

Good one! a new trinity!

EP
12/29/2014 05:29:32 pm

3.5, if we count "." :)

Dan
12/29/2014 05:21:27 pm

So, I am an attorney and I can say for certain that the lengths to which a case must travel before it not only reaches the level of a lawsuit, but actually gets to a post-trial verdict indicates that each side dug in their heels to the point of no return.
That is to say that there were many opportunities to settle this case at virtually every level before it reached the judge's verdict -- pre-complaint, initial conference, throughout discovery and prior to the commencement of trial. And let this be clear, this was not a decision on a motion or a pre-trial evaluation of the case. This decision by the judge was based upon the hearing of all of the evidence presented by each side at the conclusion of a trial.

The easy conclusion that can be reached by an legal professional evaluating this case is that Scott Wolter refused to settle this case and held a steadfast belief that he did not defraud the plaintiff. There are only two available reasons for this, neither of which speak well to our subject. He either: a) believed that he could not only hoodwink the plaintiff into believing he was selling a particular type of agate but also could trick the judge, or (quite more likely) b) was incapable of distinguishing the two types of rock himself.

The inescapable conclusion from this case is that he's either a fraud or a bad geologist. I don't think he's that blatantly a scam artist, so I'll be generous and say that's just bad at distinguishing some rocks from others.

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Dan
12/29/2014 05:24:23 pm

sorry, a couple of typos there:
a legal professional (not "an")
-and- "that [he's] just bad at distinguishing some rocks from others"

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Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 01:54:48 am

"Dan" --

The issue was not an ability to distinguish "rock types" ("Brazil" agates from Lake Superior agates) as a broad category … That indeed is easy …

THE issue was whether one particular stone (a "Brazil" agate) could be innocently misidentified as a Lake Superior agate … It does happen sometimes … and even an expert can be unsure, especially when provenance may be murky at best … "Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago … "

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EP
12/30/2014 02:04:31 am

How often do experts get sued about agate confusion, and lose, having the judge declare that they should have known the difference?

Because that's what happened to Scott Wolter.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 02:16:21 am

The judge made a mistake … It happens …
*shrug*

EP
12/30/2014 02:24:41 am

I'm sure everyone here is already convinced of Scott Wolter's innocence. You may stop repeating yourself now.

T
12/30/2014 02:58:59 am

"The issue was not an ability to distinguish ... 'Brazil' agates from Lake Superior agates ... That indeed is easy"

HAHA! Sounds less like negligence then, doesn't it?

Joe D.
12/30/2014 03:11:55 am

Again how did the judge make a mistake? If wolter stated it was a Lake Superior and it was not was it fair to Peterson? Even if it was a honest mistake on Wolters side should Peterson not be compensated?

Dan
12/30/2014 03:20:32 am

This makes no sense whatsoever. To "distinguish" one rock from another is THE EXACT THING as "innocently misidentifying" one rock from another.
You're left with two possibilities. Either Wolter is a fraud or he failed to "distinguish" or "identify" two different rocks. I think we both agree its more like that the second possibility is what happened here. He failed in something for which he's supposed to be an "expert". Its bad either way, whether it was "innocent" or not.

What's more troubling is why the case went all the way to verdict. That indicates not just an "innocent" mistake, but a persistent need to be right about something where he was fundamentally wrong. I know you can't believe that Wolter would be like that Rev, but the irony is that it seems to be exactly how he proceeds on virtually everyone one of his projects -- KRS being the best example.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 04:19:21 am

"Dan" --

You still don't *get* it, so I'll explain it again …

If one has a pile of, say, a hundred randomly selected "Brazil" agates on table #1 … and a pile of a hundred randomly selected Lake Superior agates on table #2 … the differences between them are so striking and clear, as to be obvious even to a kid, or a lawyer, or even a judge …

But in THIS case at issue, THE question was one individual particular stone which was not sitting in a pile of 99 others …

Again, patiently … An experienced expert collector often can easily distinguish a "Brazil" agate from a Lake Superior agate, often at a glance … BUT ... NOT ... ALWAYS (get that … ???) ...

It can happen .. it DOES happen … that a "Brazil" agate CAN be INNOCENTLY misidentified as a Lake Superior agate … IT ... DOES ... HAPPEN (get that ???) …

Agate collector deals between individuals often are loosey goosey in may ways, and often unfortunately may not include clear documented provenance … "Oh, yes … Ny Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago … " (hint: Grandpa DIDN'T find this stone on a rockhounding trip to Brazil … So …)

EP
12/30/2014 04:26:18 am

"But in THIS case at issue, THE question was one individual particular stone which was not sitting in a pile of 99 others …"

How do you know where the stone was "sitting" when Scott Wolter made the decision to offer it to Petersen as a (much more expensive) Lake Superior agate?

Either you're asking us to swallow unwarranted assumptions, or you're more closely involved in this case than you're letting on...

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 04:41:35 am

"EP" --

I am VERY "closely involved" in the earth science and rockhound/collecting communities … I KNOW where of I speak in those areas …

Having been Scott Wolter's personal friend and professional colleague for 25+ years, having worked with him on a number of scientific educational projects over the years …

I … KNOW … SCOTT … WOLTER … (You do not …)

Who (the Hell) are YOU … ??? I have no idea …

*shrug*

EP
12/30/2014 04:49:57 am

Rev, you sound angry... If your resolve remains hard for more than an hour at a time, you really need to go to an emergency room...

Let me repeat my question: How sure are you that Scott Wolter couldn't have been negligent in his agate dealings in 1988? Because if you can't explain that, you can't support your claim that the judge made a mistake.

Remember: (1) incompetence, (2) negligence, (3) fraud. Ignoring (3) does not make the case go away.

Matt Mc
12/30/2014 05:03:39 am

Rev keep spouting all you want.

Wolter was found guilty in this case, it is a matter of record.

His guilt implies that either he was negligent in his expertise or deliberately fraudulent.

You say he was neither, nice to hear than, guess what the court of law says you are wrong.

Get over it, relax,

It is not your job to defend all you friends errors, As you well state no one here knows Wolter, we only know the public image. The image he is responsible for, The one that has a history of deception and conflict with people he has worked with, one that shows that his aging determinations can be questioned, one that show he uses outright lies (master degree) to half truths, I have not even mention before how a bunch of hoaxers fooled him into dating a stone from the time of the KRS.

Anyway that public image is on him, not those who look into the man behind the theories. If you do not like the fact that there are people out there who find the public records for a small time celeb, then perhaps talking to Wolter about how to handle himself publicly is the way to go.

In your own quest to help you friend you have made him look worse and made yourself look worse.

Perhaps shutting up, stepping away for a day or two and relaxing will help you.

Unlike Wolter, Jason is not going to be banning opposing opinions to his so come back then the comments I am sure will be here for you.

Remember we would never be having these conversations about Wolter at all if Wolter had not created the circumstance in a public manner, that goes for it all, from hanging with Nazis, to lies on the CV, to court cases about rocks, to his feud with Neilson, he chose to make it all public. I mean look at the Amazon thread, both parties there look like they need some serious medicine/ If you real care about all this help your friend, he is making himself look foolish

EP
12/30/2014 05:07:28 am

Don't forget Wolter irreparably damaging his precious KRS through sheer negligence and/or incompetence.

And his participation in a conference organized by and alongside of Holocaust deniers.

Oh, and he thinks there are secret messages in Oreo cookies.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 05:23:37 am

"EP" --

No … I'm not *angry* …

I'm simply (again and again and AGAIN) stating and repeating simple facts (that some people either don't -- or don't want to -- *get*) ...

Matt Mc
12/30/2014 05:35:08 am

Yes you are stating simple things that contradict the facts on the public record without presenting anything as a rebuttal except that you know him.

That really does nothing to demonstrate anything except prove that you are loyal to your friend.

In fact you unwillingness to expand or comment on things, IMHO, only serves to prove that the facts in the public record are correct.

I understand there are two sides, if not more, to every story but your unwillingness to truly address them speaks volumes.

EP
12/30/2014 05:48:36 am

Scott Wolter was judicially found to have been ignorant, negligent, and/or fraudulent in his professional dealings. That's a fact.

Scott Wolter falsely claimed on his resume to have been awarded an honorary Masters degree. Then claimed that he was awarded that degree unofficially once his false claims surfaced. That's a fact.

Scott Wolter knowingly participated in a conference of the organization promoting Holocaust denial, alongside of Holocaust deniers. That is a fact.

Scott Wolter associated with prominent Neo-Nazis on multiple occasions. That is a fact.

Scott Wolter's negligence caused the Kensington Rune Stone - an artifact he claims to be of incredible scientific value - to be seriously damaged. That is a fact.

Scott Wolter hosts a pseudohistorical pseudodocumentary dedicated to spreading some of the most hare-brained fringe ideas. That is a fact.

Scott Wolter had "trademarked" an old (though uncommonly used) linguistic term, as though it was some discovery of his. That is a fact.

Scott Wolter claims that Oreo cookies contain symbols placed on them by the Illuminati. That is a fact.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 06:43:48 am

"EP" (whoever you are) --

LOL ...

"Oreos" … ???

Where do "Oreos" figure into the "Peterson v. Wolter" case … ???

"Your Honor … The defendant agreed to sell me a truck load of 'double-stuff' Oreos … but instead delivered a boat load of Chips Ahoy … !!! Vile, vile, vile Scott Wolter … !!!"

LOL ...

EP
12/30/2014 06:46:05 am

LOL

I never said they do. I am just stating various facts concerning Scott Wolter's career.

You're not quite a literal retard, so stop acting like one.

Matt Mc
12/30/2014 08:47:48 am

EP - Do not forget the Wolter and his special committee found that the AVM runestone was authentic after running Wolters super secret weathering tests. Wolter and team only admitted that it was a hoax once the hoaxers came forward and admitted they made the carvings a meager 15 years before. Wolters after the fact acceptance of the hoax all of the sudden included him saying he found things that caused him to question the authenticity of the stone, none of which was mentioned when he claimed it was authentic.

Rick
12/29/2014 06:09:13 pm

Does anyone have any cached data for SW's blog on the walls in California? He seems to have went back and deleted some of his own posts. I'm curious as to what they say. He seems like he has quite the temper based on his BS comments on his Amazon reviews.

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Only Me
12/29/2014 06:46:33 pm

Check out lurkster's post further up the comments section.

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Clint Knapp
12/30/2014 12:03:50 am

He sure did, and he did it at user-level instead of admin-level:

Scott Wolter December 29, 2014 at 6:21 PM
This comment has been removed by the author.

Unfortunately, it's timestamped after Lurkster's archiving. If anyone was still reading the thing yesterday, it'd be interesting to know what was in that post.

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EP
12/30/2014 02:05:21 am

I wonder if Wolter even has admin privileges on his own blog...

Clint Knapp
12/30/2014 02:09:44 am

I'm sure he does, unless he really has someone else screening his posts and pretending to be him when he mentions deleting comments. It seems more likely he just hasn't received his Honorary Masters of the Internet coffee yet.

EP
12/30/2014 02:25:22 am

I was mostly joking, but yeah, what you said :)

Joe D.
12/30/2014 03:07:10 am

He must have done it immediately after posting it. I was real curious about his response since it was to my post. I think he regrets asking for his skeptics to come to his site

EP
12/30/2014 03:15:46 am

Regret? That's not the Scott Wolter I know! I bet his resolve is uncomfortably hard right now! :)

Rick
12/30/2014 03:44:09 am

When I posted that earlier post about the removed comment I didn't think to mention that there were two posts removed. If you go to the current page there is one removed. In regards to JD. I assume after he flew off the handle in reply he wen back to read the ultimate in civility that was JD's post and realized he was making himself look worse(if that's possible).

I went back today to look for any more replies and noticed I couldn't find a second post removed. I reloaded and looked again but only found one. So I went to the cached page on Google and found the second one.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://scottwolteranswers.blogspot.com/2014/12/scott-and-mr.html?showComment=1419906073900#c7458919026663014030

I hope that link works right. If not its just the Google cache of that page. Near the bottom is his second removed comment. So now I wonder if he removed both but forgot to use admin to erase both? Idk.

EP
12/30/2014 03:48:33 am

When I really want to be sure, I always save the page as image.

Rick
12/30/2014 04:04:36 am

I think both comments removed are one in a the same. The time stamp is the same. I'm assuming the time stamp is for posting and not for removing. I think he could remove two in a minute but not compose two in a minute. The placement must be a quirk of Google cache for whatever reason.

Only Me
12/30/2014 04:31:55 am

I must be missing something. I've looked at the page and I haven't seen anything saying a comment was removed. Since I didn't visit the page yesterday, I don't know what comments may have been removed.

EP
12/30/2014 04:37:10 am

It says it was removed in the cached version. The notice itself has also been removed.

T
12/30/2014 03:36:03 am

Well SW apparently succeeded in getting traffic to this site back up in regards to his entertaining show (READ: trainwreck).

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EP
12/30/2014 03:44:48 am

With friends like Rev... :)

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EP
12/30/2014 03:43:34 am

I think it would be helpful to have relevant bits of the judgment in front of our eyes:

"[T]he representations by [Scott Wolter] to [Petersen] that [Wolter's] 16 3/4 pound agate was a Lake Superior agate were made when [Wolter] knew, or with the exercise ot reasonable care or competence, should have known, that said representations were false, or said representations were made by [Wolter] to [Petersen] without knowing whether they were true or false."

There are three options, then:

(1) Scott Wolter was incompetent.

(2) Scott Wolter was negligent (making representations without knowing whether they were true or false).

(3) Scott Wolter knowingly misrepresented what the stone was.

Rev. Phil Gotsch, Scott Wolter's resident knight in shining frock, is mostly disputing (3), insisting that the kind of mistake supposedly involved here happens all the time and that it can happen even when an expert diligently considers the case.

Now, let us grant Rev that he is subjectively entitled to reject (3). After all, he has known Scott Wolter for 25+ years yada yada. However, I can't see how he can claim that we should reject (2) simply because it is *possible* for a diligent expert to make that mistake. Surely even someone who believes that Wolter is "not essentially dishonest" could admit that the judgment leaves room for doubts concerning Wolter's diligence in this case.

It is one thing to insist on rejecting (3). It is another thing to insist on rejecting any and all of (1)-(3). Rev cannot reasonably expect his testimony on Wolter's behalf to carry that much weight with *any* audience.

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Dan
12/30/2014 04:03:24 am

As I said above, buried in another thread, the most troubling aspect of this case is that fact that it went all the way to verdict. That is sure evidence that Wolter steadfastly refused to acknowledge any error -- digging in his heels to the end even in the face of the three choices above.

Reply
EP
12/30/2014 04:21:00 am

Can you imagine how hard his resolve must have been?! :)

But seriously, while I completely agree with you, we should remember that Wolter seems to be nearly pathologically averse to admitting his own errors. He strikes me as just the type to get bogged down in an avoidable lawsuit due to sheer stubbornnes.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 04:24:15 am

"Dan" --

Yes, I understand that the lawyerly preference is to "settle," maybe "cop a plea" … whatever … without going to trial …

The fact that Scott Wolter steadfastly went ahead in defending his honor IMHO speaks to his integrity and the fact that HE KNEW that he had not done anything wrong …

(Or do you routinely advise an INNOCENT client to just go ahead and plead "guilty" in order to avoid going to trial … ??? Really … ??? *shudder* …)

EP
12/30/2014 04:31:38 am

Civil cases are not about "innocence". And yes, people settle them all the time. Especially when they made a mistake (of one kind or another).

You may continue flailing your red herrings around until the cows come home, of course. *Shrug*, as you say.

Jerky
12/30/2014 05:14:25 am

rev, I'm sure it was, Let me tell you something, every criminal convected of crime proclaims there innocence. Every last one of them. They all have excuses for why they are not guilty. Even when all evidence points to them as the guilty party. So you will have to excuse me if I don't buy what your selling. It all just comes off as just another excuse.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 04:32:02 am

"EP" --

Whether you like it or not, whether you know it or not, "rocks" are simply what they are …

Regarding "rocks," I know (a lot; not everything) where of I speak …

The judge made an error …

Fortunately the sums involved in the judgment were relatively paltry and not worth the expense and hassles of an appeal …

Get Over It …

(The earth science / rockhound community got*over*it LONG ago … Like me -- unlike "The Judge" -- and you -- they understand such situations … Scott Wolter remains a VERY large force in his community, whether you like it or not …)

*shrug*

Reply
EP
12/30/2014 04:36:25 am

A VERY large force, with a VERY hard resolve...

Feel free to actually address the points people make instead of changing the subject. Any time now. Let me try again. Here are the three options:

(1) Scott Wolter was incompetent.

(2) Scott Wolter was negligent (making representations without knowing whether they were true or false).

(3) Scott Wolter knowingly misrepresented what the stone was.

You say that the judge made a mistake. That implies that we should reject any and all of (1)-(3). Now, lets ignore (3) for a moment. What makes you so confident that we should reject (2) as well? Like, how intimately did you know Scott Wolter in 1988?

Joe D.
12/30/2014 04:46:33 am

Again how was the judge wrong. Was the agate that wolter traded with Peterson Brazilian or from Lake Superior. I think you are trying so hard to say he didn't intentionally cheat Peterson. We get your point. But all the judge ruled was that the parties return each object to the original owner. But since wolter sold his he had to compensate Peterson the value. Again how was the judge wrong???

Clint Knapp
12/30/2014 05:34:06 am

No one cares about the Earth Science/Rockhound community, Phil. No one. Sell all the misrepresented rocks you want, or all the properly-identified ones. It doesn't matter.

It's the fact that Wolter's current community, the one in which he finds himself presently engaged, is the community of cranks and hucksters using their fake or inadequate credentials, misrepresented evidence, faulty logic, and outright LIES AND HOAXES to bilk uneducated or ill-informed people out of their hard-earned money in the service of setting themselves up as pioneers of Truth and keepers of the true history of the world that we care about. People like your friend are dumbing down everyone who gets sucked into their cult of personality through appellations of open-mindedness and conspiracies to hide the truth from the common man.

It is in that context that this court case becomes damning evidence to the quality of the character of your "close personal friend and professional colleague".

Your own laughable claims the judge was in error, without any supporting argument, acknowledgement of the facts of the case, or... well, anything that has anything to do with an actual question posed to you, only serve to make yourself look all the more untrustworthy where character witnessing (your own stated purpose) is concerned.

All the more evidenced when you write "The Judge" as though you now are calling into question the legitimacy of Millard P. Lorette's title and standing as Judge of District Court. How you present your argument is almost as questionable as the content itself.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 05:46:24 am

"EP" --

*sigh*

Please try to pay attention this time … I'll repeat myself again … not for the first time ...

"Incompetence" or "negligence" or "deliberate fraud" have nothing to do with the issue in THIS case, which is proper reliable "identification" of a stone ...

An experienced expert (as distinct from a lawyer or a judge) can often quickly identify a particular specimen, often at a glance …

But not always …

Generally, "Brazil" agates are not mistaken for Lake Superior agates …

But … Sometimes on occasion an individual "Brazil" agate can be misidentified as a Lake Superior agate … It happens … Not commonly, but it does happen …

The agate deals between individuals may frequently involve stones of provenance that may be murky at best ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …") … This only adds to the ID problem …

Anybody -- "expert witness," lawyer, or judge -- who doesn't understand these fine points is/was "incompetent" to render a decision in the case ...

Only Me
12/30/2014 06:32:52 am

Not properly or reliably identifying a stone is, by definition, incompetence or negligence.

EP
12/30/2014 06:36:11 am

So let me get this straight, Rev: You're saying that *expert witnesses* in this case are incompetent because they failed to exonerate Scott Wolter of all three of fraud, incompetence and negligence? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. And it is ridiculous. Even by the standards of your levels of desperation and ineptitude.

EP
12/30/2014 06:39:53 am

@ Clint "Clint Knapp" Knapp:

That was a good post!

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 08:44:22 am

"EP" --

Not all "experts" are as advertised, and even if they are, infamously many court cases involve a "battle of the expert experts" who disagree among themselves …

Based upon my own considerable knowledge and experience of these matters, I know that an innocent misunderstanding can happen in these such cases … That's just the way it is … People who imagine otherwise have watched too many "CSI" episodes …

E.g., some years ago, I purchased a nice large piece of "Brazil" agate from a large lot of documented material of known provenance … It was a fragment of what once had been a much larger nodule … IF I had mischievously tossed it out into a gravel pit in Minnesota, the lucky finder of it would have been thrilled to discover a big hunk of what had been a much larger nodule of Lake Superior agate … There would have been NO WAY for the discoverer (or any later purchaser/owner/seller) to KNOW that it was in reality a discarded "Brazil" agate …

I later donated that nice piece of stone to a high school in northern Minnesota for their lapidary art - jewelry classes … (properly IDed as what I knew it to be) ...

EP
12/30/2014 08:47:58 am

"Not all "experts" are as advertised... Based upon my own considerable knowledge and experience of these matters..."

LOL

Why should we take your advertisements of your own expertise at face value? Would you like to provide some evidence that you know what you're talking about?

Matt Mc
12/30/2014 08:50:48 am

or for that matter why should we take Wolters expertise at face value? there is enough demonstrable evidence that he prone to either making errors or false claims.

EP
12/30/2014 08:55:27 am

Scott Wolter wrote a whole book on agates! :)

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 08:57:59 am

"EP" --

Neither I -- nor Scott Wolter -- nor any of our colleagues and associates need to *prove* something or anything to YOU (whoever YOU are) …

LOL ...

EP
12/30/2014 09:02:08 am

For more on Rev. Phil Gotsch not needing to prove anything to us, refer to the rest of this thread :)

Matt Mc
12/30/2014 09:02:10 am

nor have you..

Well that is not true you have proven you and your pal have had past or present interactions with White Supremacists and like to skirt around truthfulness. I do not however think that is what you all wanted to do,

EP
12/30/2014 04:59:26 am

Rev 12/30/2014 12:24pm: "The fact that Scott Wolter steadfastly went ahead in defending his honor IMHO speaks to his integrity and the fact that HE KNEW that he had not done anything wrong …"

Rev 12/30/2014 12:32pm: "Fortunately the sums involved in the judgment were relatively paltry and not worth the expense and hassles of an appeal …"

LOL

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T
12/30/2014 05:10:48 am

BOOM!!

So he succeeded in failing to "defend[] his honor," then letting that finding stand. Bad decisions at every turn to get to one of the worst possible outcomes. This guy is great!

T
12/30/2014 05:11:54 am

He didn't have the resolve to see it through. Quitter.

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 05:26:05 am

LOL …

Yes … If Scott Wolter were observed walking on water, the Haters would exclaim, "Look … !!! He can't even swim … !!!"

EP
12/30/2014 05:34:09 am

"If Scott Wolter were observed walking on water, the Haters would exclaim, "Look … !!! He can't even swim … !!!""

The *Reverend* Phil Gotsch just compared Scott Wolter to Jesus.

I think he *wants* us to think he is a troll.

Either way, this is a good thread :D

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 06:01:59 am

"EP" --

LOL … You should try to get out more often … It's an interesting world out here ...

Reply
EP
12/30/2014 06:38:29 am

So Jason should go back to his basement, while I should get out more often? So confusing. The Rock Community is waaaay over our heads, y'all!

You just compared Scott Wolter to Jesus. I think it is *you* who needs to get some fresh air.

Joe D.
12/30/2014 06:56:41 am

Phil,

I think we call get your point on the difficulty in distinguishing the differences in agate. But you continue to say the Judge made a mistake. Myself and several others are continuing to ask you to clarify on this mistake. In this case was the agate that was in Wolters possession prior to the transaction from Lake Superior or it was Brazilian. I do not care if it was an honest mistake, but you continue to insist that the Judge made a mistake. Please elaborate on this mistake.

Reply
T
12/30/2014 07:10:54 am

I think he's trying to unconvincingly thread the needle in that while a mistake WAS made (presumably by both parties), it was such a mistake that a professional and competent rock dude could make. Thus, it does not rise to the level of negligence or professional incompetence (and of course we know his position regarding Wolter and fraud), but rather what occurred was a simple and honest, reasonable, mistake.

I believe he then says the judge was "wrong" because, while in effect the judge undid the deal arguably based on a mutual mistake, the judge went further and basically said it fraud OR negligence.

One major problem with this is--that besides for withful thinking and wanting to paint a rosy picture--he has no reason to come to this conclusion (or has proferred none), while the judge had the benefit of an adversary proceeding to make his findings.

He says the job

Reply
T
12/30/2014 07:12:44 am

Whoops regarding the floating words at the bottom of my last post!

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 08:51:59 am

"T" --

Yes, you *get* it …

The case called for a "Solomon"-like decision, but instead it was more like "Judge Judy" ...

T
12/30/2014 09:09:56 am

What was the plaintiff looking to win in the lawsuit from SW, may I ask? What were his demands to resolve it?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 08:49:12 am

Joe D. --

The judged erred in not understanding -- and taking into account -- the real world complexity of the question at issue, i.e., the proper identification of the stone ...

Reply
Joe D.
12/30/2014 08:53:40 am

So are you stating that Wolter did have a Lake Superior Agate and that the Judge was incorrect in concluding it was a Brazilian Agate?

Or that he did not understand that it was easily mistakable?



Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 08:55:19 am

Joe D. --

The judge did not understand -- or take into account -- the complexity of identifying a specimen of unknown or murky provenance ...

Matt Mc
12/30/2014 08:57:29 am

In this case the judge said basically that someone with the background like Wolter, who literally wrote a book on the subject, should of been able to properly identify the stone. The judge determined either Wolter was not a competent as he claims or was knowingly fraudulent.

Those are the facts,

Remember Rev. *STICK TO THE FACTS* is one of the statements you love to make

EP
12/30/2014 09:03:25 am

More precisely: Scott Wolter was found to be either (1) incompetent, or (2)negligent, or (3) fraudulent.

EP
12/30/2014 09:06:01 am

"The judge did not understand -- or take into account -- the complexity of identifying a specimen of unknown or murky provenance ..."

And you know that how? What evidence is there for this claim other than that the judge didn't rule in Wolter's favor?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 01:25:23 pm

Joe D. --

The fact you "do not care if it was an honest mistake" gets to the heart of the problem here … For you sake, I hope you never have to defend your self in a court of law ...

Reply
EP
12/30/2014 01:34:00 pm

Look at your pathetic attempts to grasp at nonexistent straws! Joe D. clearly didn't mean it in the sense that you're attempting to ascribe to him. At the some time, you are continuing to ignore the chorus of challenges to substantiate your baseles and barely coherent assertions.

Your performace in this thread is such an embarrassing failure, I actually almost feel bad for you. Almost.

EP
12/30/2014 08:59:32 am

Compares Scott Wolter to Jesus.

Compares the judge who rules against Scott Wolter to Judge Judy (in spite of admitting that he is not familiar with the details of the case).

Says that claims of expertise should be evaluated, but asks us to accept his own claims of expertise at face value.

Says all of us are conducting The War on Scott Wolter.

Is Rev. Phil Gotsch.

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 09:13:27 am

Again … The judge's ruling indicated that he did not understand or take into account the real world complexities of proper identification, especially in a case or murky or unknown provenance …

"Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago … " (maybe he did, maybe he didn't) ...

It happens …

Reply
EP
12/30/2014 09:14:43 am

Again: And you know that how? What evidence is there for this claim other than that the judge didn't rule in Wolter's favor?

Also, could you state the credentials that make your opinion on rocks worth considering?

Reply
T
12/30/2014 09:16:36 am

But what does this hypo have to do with the case at hand?

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 09:18:26 am

LOL … *shrug*

I've been at this stuff for a few decades …

*shrug*

Reply
EP
12/30/2014 09:21:15 am

No one here has any idea what that means. And it doesn't help establish that you're an expert.

Also, on what grounds are you so sure that the judge "did not understand or take into account the real world complexities of proper identification, especially in a case or murky or unknown provenance"?

Reply
Matt Mc
12/30/2014 09:23:34 am

I bet you have.

Wolter is full of so many half truths it must have been an interesting 25+ years trying to convince people that he is truthful and ethical.

Reply
Joe D.
12/30/2014 09:29:54 am

So Phil

Based on the case at hand how would you rule different? Would you not have each party return the property to the other and if could not provide compensation to equal the value

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 09:32:38 am

Joe D. --

I would have ruled that the deal be *undone* to the satisfaction of BOTH parties, with no finding on any *fault* ..

Joe D.
12/30/2014 09:35:51 am

So basically what the judge actually did. One hell of a mistake by him!!

EP
12/30/2014 09:41:11 am

@ Joe D.

LOL

@ Rev. Phil Gotsch

Do you enjoy getting ridiculed, or are you just utterly undignified?

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 09:45:15 am

So …

In the Judgment and Decree, there WAS no finding of any "fraud" or "negligence" or "incompetence" on any such thing on anybody's part …

IOW …

No Big Deal … It was all an innocent misunderstanding …
Stuff happens …

So these "discussions" have been a waste of time … ???

EP
12/30/2014 09:55:39 am

Hey Rev, that you?

http://www.active.com/maplewood-mn/classes/superior-agates-and-mn-geology-with-agate-phil-2014

T
12/30/2014 10:05:06 am

Not so fast.

The court found, as I recall, that SW was either negligent/incompetent or fraudulent, but did not decide which. Based on all the evidence presented by both parties, the court did not find "no fault." And the fact that damages were "paltry" does not mean the court found "found" there was an honest mistake and the deal was ordered undone, quite the contrary. Read the order.

If there was a mutual, innocent, mistake, then one question that comes to mind is why did this have to go all the way through trial? Why couldn't the parties undo the deal themselves? SW would say because the Plaintiff was being unreasonable in his demands. Maybe, but we haven't heard that. Either way the court's order is more than clear, hence Phil's protestations that the court "didn't get it." Unfortunately that at least partly falls at SW's feet because his side couldn't present a good enough case--bad facts maybe?

Next SW/Phil will blame the lawyer. You watch.

Joe D.
12/30/2014 10:26:31 am

Like I said it was basically the ruling. But many here are correct in saying that the judge did indicate that wolter was negligent. ut would have made this whole conversation a lot quicker if the rev would have actually read the ruling before claiming that the judge made a mistake. Or the several posts repeating the ruling.

I find it ridiculous that the wolter fans constantly jump to his defense without actually taking the time to learn the argument.

EP
12/30/2014 10:52:48 am

They are doing their best to imitate their idol, Joe D. :)

EP
12/30/2014 09:54:44 am

Again, for those feigning mental disability... Here is what the court found:

"[T]he representations by [Scott Wolter] to [Petersen] that [Wolter's] 16 3/4 pound agate was a Lake Superior agate were made when [Wolter] knew, or with the exercise ot reasonable care or competence, should have known, that said representations were false, or said representations were made by [Wolter] to [Petersen] without knowing whether they were true or false."

This means that the judge found that:

(1) Scott Wolter was incompetent, and/or

(2) Scott Wolter was negligent (making representations without knowing whether they were true or false), and/or

(3) Scott Wolter knowingly misrepresented what the stone was.

Without needing to rule on which of the there it was, the judge used this finding as the basis on which the plaintiff was entitled to relief from Scott Wolter. The question of Wolter's character or honesty was not in front of the judge.

Rev. Phil Gotsch, in his neverending white-knighting quest, claims that:

"The judge's ruling indicated that he did not understand or take into account the real world complexities of proper identification, especially in a case or murky or unknown provenance."

So far, this claim is completely baseless.

Moreover, he asks us to discount the expert testimony in this case in place of his own.

Reply
T
12/30/2014 10:09:12 am

Agree. It is a completely baseless claim. He points to nothing to indicate that the judge "didn't get it." Besides the outcome the Phil doesn't like, where in the ruling is it "indicated that he did not understand ...."?

Reply
CHV
12/30/2014 10:22:35 am

Had Scott felt that the judge in question made a procedural mistake in his decision, he could have filed an appeal. Did that ever happen?

EP
12/30/2014 10:28:10 am

Not to my knowledge. Rev agrees, saying that appeal was too much of a hassle. While also saying that Scott Wolter is to be commended for defending himself in court.

T
12/30/2014 10:43:03 am

BWAAHHAHA!

When the judge "makes a mistake" is EXACTLY when you appeal. Especially when "defending your honor," I suspect.

Did he even ask for reconsideration/file post-trial motion?

At this point, I'd love to learn more about this case. Anyone able to assist?

EP
12/30/2014 10:57:21 am

Perhaps one of the lawyers reading this could look up the case on one of the fancy lawyerly electronic databases and get whatever other documents to which Jason may not have had easy access.

Do it, y'all! And I shall bestow upon you some honorary Doctorates in Internet Superheroism! :D

Jerky
12/30/2014 11:22:17 am

I happen to be good friends with my counties newly elected judge, I was a practicing lawyer until he got elected. I can try to ask him about it before he take office as judge but I don't know if theres enough time.

EP
12/30/2014 11:37:50 am

Jerky, while you're at it, see if he can hook you up with the documents for that other case whose number I posted above. I don't know if Jason already has it, but even if it's not worth it for Jason to post I'm sure people are curious to know at least what it was about.

Jerky
12/30/2014 12:02:57 pm

I'll only ask on the one witch jason posted that Scott made it possible to post. I dont want to do something that could get jason or my self in trouble. But im not sure if he can or will be willing. Ill ask him if i see him again, but he just moved out of his office to the court house today, he might be to busy. So don't get your hopes up.

Also is it just me, or does any one else around here sick when ever they read Scott's bs on his blog?

Jerky
12/30/2014 12:07:03 pm

"newly elected judge, I was a practicing lawyer"

edit: "newly elected judge, He was a practicing lawyer"

EP
12/30/2014 12:17:55 pm

You're not going to get in trouble for reading about the other case yourself or for telling us what it was about.

Besides, Scott Wolter didn't lose that case, as far as I recall, so if it's public record there is exactly zero reason to hesitate to say what the issue was.

Also, if Jason doesn't have it, there is zero reason to hesitate to share the documents with him privately.

T
12/30/2014 11:15:41 am

As an aside, the court explicitly recognized SW as a known "expert" in his field. Maybe the judge did get its order wrong as Phil asserts ;)

Reply
EP
12/30/2014 11:35:13 am

Hey... Scott Wolter's archaeological and historical work wasn't on trial ;)

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 12:56:04 pm

"T" --

You are very *wry* …

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 12:02:53 pm

Okay, I'll try it again … (I hope that this time it will come across in English, rather than Serbo-Croatian,so that people can read it and understand it …)

Many experienced experts often can properly identify a particular specimen very quickly, almost at a glance …

But not always …

In the matter of "agates," say, if one had a pile of a hundred "Brazil" agates selected at random on table #1, and a hundred randomly selected Lake Superior agates on table #2 … the differences between them would be striking and CLEAR, even to a kid, or even to a lawyer or a judge …

But … In the case of "Peterson v. Wolter," we are not discussing piles of agates, but single stones …

It can happen, it does happen on occasion (not commonly, but it does happen) that a single "Brazil" agate CAN be INNOCENTLY misidentified as a Lake Superior agate …

That can happen in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky … ("Oh, yes … My Grandpa found this stone thirty years ago …")

E.g., some years back, I purchased a nice chunk of Brazil agate that was a fragment of a much larger nodule … I knew it to be a Brazil agate, not least because it came from a much larger lot of properly documented provenance … However … IF I had been inclined to do so, if I had tossed it out into a gravel pit in Minnesota, the lucky person who later found it would have been thrilled to discover such a nice big hunk of Lake Superior agate, which had once been part of a much larger nodule … What I did, though, was donate it to a lapidary-jewelry art class at a high school in northern Minnesota, with the stone properly IDed …

The FACT that even an expert expert may innocently misidentify a "Brazil" agate as a Lake Superior agate indicates nothing at all -- NOTHING -- about "fraud" or "negligence" or "incompetence" … It is about the STONES themselves, not necessarily the examiner of them …

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls … This isn't my first Rodeo ......

Reply
EP
12/30/2014 12:23:26 pm

This is just a huffety-puffety way of repeating your baseless assertion that the judge made a mistake due to failing to consider the nature of these stones. You still haven't presented a single reason to suppose that the judge failed to consider it.

"I hope that this time it will come across in English, rather than Serbo-Croatian"

Try toning down the psychotic punctuation. That might help.

"in a situation in which the provenance of the stone is murky …"

How do you know how murky the provenance was? Why assume that it was murky? Because Wolter lost?

" Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls … This isn't my first Rodeo ......"

I bet. You seem to be experienced at being the clown.

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 12:54:09 pm

"EP" --

The voice of reason and experience just doesn't come across to you …

You are unalterably convince that Scott Wolter is a scoundrel, no matter anything anyone else says or provides …

*shrug*

EP
12/30/2014 01:02:09 pm

Tell us more about unalterable convictions, Mr. 25+ years...

Matt Mc
12/30/2014 12:23:34 pm

Nothing you say changes anything.

A judge reviewed the evidence and determined that Wolter, an expert who literally wrote a book on the subject, in fact was either negligent or fraudulent.

You may not disagree with the Judges decision but you also have not shown how the judge made the wrong decision. You have shown the mistakes can happen and they do. Under normal circumstances a normal mistake does not lead to a trial and is resolved beforehand.

Rev, you have offered nothing that a hypothetical situation that possibly applies to the lawsuit.

What did the judge misinterpret about the evidence and experts that testified at the trail?

If all this was simple a mistake that went way to far, why did the Judge specifically make the statements about Wolter that she did?

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 01:05:28 pm

Although completely predictable, these bits do become comical ...

Reply
EP
12/30/2014 01:07:16 pm

Keep on rollin with dem punches, Rev! Atta boy!

Reply
Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 01:12:47 pm

Mr. Miyagi had more than one student …

EP
12/30/2014 01:28:31 pm

Rollin. With. Dem. Punches.

Clint Knapp
12/30/2014 03:43:51 pm

Hillary Swank aside, did Phil seriously just proclaim himself a student of a fictional character from an 80s movie?

(Boom. 300)

Rev. Phil Gotsch
12/30/2014 04:01:36 pm

Clint --

I am indeed NOT Hilary Swank ...

tm
12/30/2014 02:49:36 pm

Unfortunately, the most predictable thing here, whether Mr. Wolter is selling his rocks or his theories, is caveat emptor.

Reply
mike b
12/30/2014 01:46:32 pm

Heard this rebroadcast on our local radio channel this morning. Its originally from Nov. 13

http://media.933theplanetrocks.com/device/mobile/a/99112425/the-rise-guys-matt-s-conspiracy-mystery-with-scott-wolter-11-13.htm?q=scott+wolter

Reply
Only Me
12/30/2014 02:51:20 pm

*SIGH*

After the seemingly interminable recycling of the same comments from the same person, I've decided to reveal the actual mistake made by the judge.

He did not rule that Scott's agate was guilty of identity theft.

Clearly, this loathsome Brazilian agate was the cause of mental anguish and financial loss to an innocent Lake Superior agate that just wanted to go to a good home.

Please, when purchasing popular stones, make sure the paperwork is clean. Think of the Lake Superior agates. You must be their voice.

NOTE: This has been a joke and only a joke.

Reply
T
12/30/2014 03:03:15 pm

In the interests of being even handed, the judge found that it was more likely than not (not beyond a reasonable doubt) that SW was negligent or fraudulent in regards to this deal. As such he was found civilly liable to the plaintiff; he was not found (or tried) for a crime, so it's incorrect to say he was found "guilty" of anything in this case.

You're welcome Rev Run.

Reply
Only Me
12/30/2014 03:10:56 pm

I've never said Scott was guilty of a crime. Unlike Phil, I read the judgment.

T
12/30/2014 03:24:58 pm

You're right. I meant to post this generally, not at you. Mea culpa.

EP
12/31/2014 05:50:20 am

Too bad no one wants to discuss Jan Bremmer's book :(

Reply
T
12/31/2014 11:18:41 am

For anyone that follows TV Tropes, America Unearthed has made it on there.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/AmericaUnearthed

Reply
Only Me
12/31/2014 11:49:35 am

That's awesome! Thanks, T!

Reply
EP
12/31/2014 12:08:09 pm

Goddammit, I can't log into TV Tropes!

Reply
Rick
12/31/2014 12:37:05 pm

I like the reference to Rev. Phil. Lol

Reply
EP
12/31/2014 02:22:13 pm

I still can't log into TV Tropes... Someone really needs to add these (among others):

Alternate Landmark History

Ancient Conspiracy

Ancient Tradition

Beethoven Was an Alien Spy

Captain Obvious

Critical Research Failure

Documentary of Lies

Eskimos Aren't Real

Geometric Magic

Going to See the Elephant

It's the Journey That Counts

Modern Major General

Mysterious Note

Network Decay

Plausible Deniability

Public Domain Artifact

Strawman Has a Point

Very Loosely Based on a True Story

Viewers Are Morons

We Need to Get Proof

Reply
Dan
12/31/2014 03:11:40 pm

Also, "Ignored Expert" needs to be Scott Dawson from the Roanoke Dare Stones episode.

Reply
mike b
1/1/2015 05:23:54 am

From Tvtropes

YMMV: America Unearthed
Bile Fascination: America Unearthed has a large following of skeptics and critics. Critic Jason Colavito's blog gets more hits than the show's own site and Scott Wolter's blog combined. See also B Ile Fascination:

Critical Research Failure: It doesn't take much knowledge or research to show the errors made by America Unearthed. However some critics not only do that but also deconstruct the origin of a lot of the fringe history claims made by Wolter. Each episode yields plenty of material.

Opinion Myopia: Any time Wolter discusses something with a rare guest that disagrees with him.

Reply
Dan
1/1/2015 06:30:41 am

Jerky isn't "getting informal advice", he's potentially asking his friend (lawyer, now judge) for access to court papers. I have access to Federal cases through PACER and cases from my own jurisdiction, but I don't have access to state cases from Minnesota, hence I have not volunteered to get the case where I don't have access to get it.

Reply
Jerky
1/1/2015 06:57:15 am

I asked him to look at it. He is intrigued by this case and said he would think about looking at it if he has the time. but like i said, i wouldn't get my hopes up. The man is a good man, was a scout master for a scout troop one county over, He was one of 3 people the Governor of my state looked at for replacing the judge and he swore if he wasn't appointed, thin he would run for election and win, and that is exactly what he did. I never asked him or said i would ask him for advice, poor dear old Cicero.

Looks like Skyrim is missing its jester.

Reply
Jerky
1/1/2015 07:03:19 am

(my post above was directed at Cicero, hit the wrong reply button)

Jerky
1/1/2015 07:39:06 am

Dan, I asked him yesterday afternoon. He said he would look into it, but since he is a lawyer/judge from Oklahoma, I think it will be the same as you. But there is no harm in asking, and when I explained the jest of the case to him, he got interested in it. Said he might look into it if he has the time.

Reply
Troppy
1/1/2015 02:42:39 pm

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/ScottWolter

Reply
Cort Lindahl link
9/26/2015 12:01:27 pm

Not only is Wolter wrong about many things including the origins of the K stone but he seems to come dangerously close to blatantly taking others ideas and presenting them as his own. I have recently uncovered the entire truth of the K stone and it is nothing like what he is telling you. There is a family that lives in Alexandria Minnesota that has valued all the symbols on the K stone for hundreds of years. They are associated with those that created the Hudson's Bay Company. This family is also associated with the creation of the College of William and Mary thus explaining why their logo is the Auspice of Mary including four "Hooked X's". I say that is quotes because they are actually the Greek letter Chi.

If you plot the location of the K stone. The lost La Verendrye Stone in Minot, and Parry's Sandstone pillar on the Milk River all of these strange markers lie right at the margins of the Hudson's Bay Company and what would become the Louisiana Purchase. There is a Hudson's Bay Company map from the early nineteenth century showing the location of the K stone, Minot stone, Sandstone Pillar and Turtle Mountain. Turtle Mountain was the datum used by the HBC to define Rupert's Land. This is all a sham and most of what Wolter is saying is wrong. There is an article on my blog that shows most of this. What the symbols on the K stone represent is the Labarum sign of Constantine. Alpha Christos Omega. On the last episode of UAE and this episode of the Pirate show Scott talks about how octagons point to places. I have been writing about that for over seven years and corresponding w/ him so is a great coincidence I suppose that this material has become part of his thesis with no mention of my work. I have been invited on the show twice and declined. Now a thesis amazingly similar to my work is being presented as part of his w/ no reference to me or my research. I will be appearing on NightVision radio this Thursday, October, 1. After this show airs no one will view the Kensington Stone or Et in Arcdia Ego the same way. If anyone has any questions or wishes to discuss this with me contact me on Facebook or geomancy@live.com. Thank you. -Cort

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      • Who Lost the Middle Ages
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    • Collection: Ancient History >
      • Prehistoric Nuclear War
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    • Collection: The Lovecraft Legacy >
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  • The Library
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        • Egyptian Texts >
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      • Medieval Texts >
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          • Al-Maqrizi on the Pyramids
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        • The Hunt for Noah's Ark
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          • W. Scott-Elliot >
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        • Lost Cities >
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      • Giants in the Earth >
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        • Fragments on Giants
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      • Science and History >
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        • The Mutinous Sea
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      • Extreme History >
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        • Maspero on the Predynastic Sphinx
        • Vestiges of the Mayas
        • Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel
        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
          • Volume 2: Anthropogenesis
        • Phoenicians in America
        • The Electric Ark
        • Traces of European Influence
        • Prince Henry Sinclair
        • Pyramid Prophecies
        • Templars of Ancient Mexico
        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
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        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
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        • Noah's Ark Cables
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      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
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      • A Message from Mars
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    • The Supernatural >
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      • Lucian's True History
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      • The Novel of the Black Seal
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      • The Lost Continent
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      • H. P. Lovecraft >
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      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
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    • Miscellaneous Documents >
      • The Balloon-Hoax
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      • The Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolf
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      • James Dean's Scrapbook
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      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
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