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New Atlantis Claim Places Lost Continent in Cyclades

10/18/2013

12 Comments

 
The BBC seems to have a hit on its hands with Atlantis, its fantasy about Greek mythology that bears little direct connection to Plato’s allegorical city. Naturally, Atlantis seems to be having yet another moment for the first time since Disney’s Atlantis movie coincided with the “lost civilization” alternative history movement more than a decade ago. The screenwriter behind the hit movie Gravity announced his next project is going to be The Lost City, yet another “new take” on Atlantis, while Fox announced its own Atlantis series, this time about two brothers who take off on a quest to find the sunken city and uncover deep sea mysteries in weekly installments—a soggier Supernatural by way of SeaQuest.

But these projects, at least, are fiction. Not so the newest attempt to identify Plato’s fictional lost city with a real place. The latest claimant is Christos A. Djonis, whose new book Uchronia? Atlantis Revealed claims that the lost continent can be found amidst the Cyclades, when the author claims, a civilization existed on land on a now-sunken plain 11,000 years ago. Djonis claims that the Cyclades’ plain sank in 8000 BCE after the Bosporus broke open and the Black Sea flooded, the controversial but famous event several have tried to claim was in fact Noah’s Flood. While critics of that hypothesis suggest that the Black Sea flood was much gentler than its original proponents claimed, this is irrelevant anyway since the date for this event is 5600 BCE, not 8000 BCE or 9600 BCE. But what’s a few thousand years between friends?

This Cycladic plain is, in Djonis’s view, the location of Plato’s fantastical kingdom and lies 9 km from Santorini, which Djonis says matches Plato’s description of its location. That would be the part, I suppose, where Plato claims that Atlantis was in “the Atlantic Ocean… situated in front of…the Pillars of Heracles” and “larger than Libya and Asia put together” (Timaeus 24e)—aside from that, completely accurate. Oh, right, Djonis doesn’t believe this text applies.

First, the facts: During the Ice Age the area now known as the Cyclades was in fact one large island because sea levels were as much as 300 feet lower than today. This island was about 2,300 square miles (6,000 square km) in size, roughly two-thirds the size of Cyprus. Archaeology knows only of small animals and dwarf elephants, not humans, occupying the Ice Age super-island. Humans don’t show up until around 7000 BCE or later, and then only as small hunting groups. There is no evidence that Athens, much less Atlantis, existed at this time, as the Timaeus narrative claims. Thus, archaeology does not confirm the literal truth of Plato’s story in its surrounding details.

In 2010, geologist Kalliopi Gaki-Papanastassiou and several colleagues proposed a similar theory identifying the Cycladic island with Atlantis in a chapter of the edited volume Coastal and Marine Geospacial Technology, though they admitted it was speculation based on the unproven assumption of the existence of a city-state and based on throwing out details from Plato that didn’t match. However, they felt confident that the existence of Neolithic cultures in the surrounding area proved that an advanced culture existed between them. They did not propose a method whereby knowledge of this city-state—but no other aspect of Neolithic culture—transmitted from the Cyclades to Egypt to Plato. Gaki-Papanastassiou also claims to have found Homeric Ithaca by studying prehistoric coastlines.

Djonis claims that he is the first to discover that the English translations of Plato are wrong and by performing magical feats (sorry, analysis) on Plato’s Greek text, he concludes that it does not say what it actually says but something very different. Here’s the key passage of his press release that I think explains it all:

The English adaptation of Plato’s account had to be dissected and thoroughly examined. Also, to ensure that the original meaning from the Greek story was not lost during translation, the English version was compared to the Greek format which has a different syntactic structure. This evaluation revealed that simple errors and flawed interpretations by early translators led many researchers in the past to look for Atlantis in all the wrong places.

Notice that he does not actually read the Greek text; he compares the English translation to the Greek sentence structure, and rearranges the words based on the order of words in the Greek text. Languages, of course, are not convertible 1:1, so this method actually ensures that the translation is mangled by ignoring the meaning of the text in favor of its word order.

This “amazing” discovery allows him to detach the phrases of Timaeus 24e and consider them as separate lines. The relevant segment reads, in standard translation:

This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.

Djonis asserts that the “structure” of Plato allows him to conclude that this description does not apply to Atlantis; instead, he reads this as a separate island of the Atlantic used for “illustration” that the Atlantic was navigable; it is North America. Atlantis, he says, was a separate island, even though Plato sums up the preceding by calling it a description of “this island of Atlantis” (25a) and specifically explains that the Atlanteans crossed the Pillars of Heracles to conquer lands within the Mediterranean basin. Thus, Djonis simultaneously introduces prehistoric trans-Atlantic diffusionism and exempts Atlantis from Plato’s more specific description of Atlantis’s geographical location.

Specifically, Djonis argues that because in Greek the subject comes at the end of the sentence, we can then move the words of the English version around to eliminate pesky direct objects; thus he makes 24e read: “the (Atlantic) Ocean that was at that time navigable; and it was possible for travelers of that time to cross from it (from Atlantis) to the other islands and from the(se) islands to the whole of the continent over against them which (the islands and continent together) encompasses the veritable ocean.” See how cleverly he has inverted the actual meaning of Plato by reversing the word order? Too bad Greek words have grammatical cases, which is how we know which are the subject and object of actions. Djonis simply throws out Greek grammar to force the words into an order of convenience. I would guess that Djonis, a native Cypriot who has lived in the U.S. since 1981, does not actually read ancient Greek, which differs markedly from Modern Greek, or else every other reader of ancient Greek has been wrong since the time of Plato.

Note, though, that when his method fails, Djonis is open to special pleading. In 24e, Plato writes that Atlantis “starting from a distant point in the Atlantic ocean, was insolently advancing to attack the whole of Europe, and Asia to boot.” Unable to rearrange this satisfactorily to eliminate the clear reference to the Atlantic Ocean, Djonis simply declares Plato a poet and this a “poetic attempt of his to describe the might of Atlantis.”

In short: Plato is absolutely accurate about those details Djonis likes, but when Djonis doesn’t like them, Plato was conveniently making stuff up.

Djonis doesn’t stop there. He drags in every alternative history staple from the past fifteen years to support his discovery—you know, everything except geology, archaeology, etc. He claims that Göbekli Tepe in Turkey proves that humans were much more advanced than previously thought 10,000 years ago; however, Göbekli Tepe actually refutes the idea of Atlantis, for its sacred structures were constructed without the infrastructure of civilization—cities, farming, archaeologically visible political hierarchy, etc.

He also takes as a given the discovery of a “city” in the Gulf of Khambhat (Cambay) off the coast of India. Supposedly this city is 9,000-10,000 years old, but the only evidence of it is (a) a piece of wood carbon dated to around 7200 BCE but which skeptics believe is simply the remnant of an Ice Age forest, and (b) some disputed debris that advocates believe is manmade but skeptics contend is natural. But even accepting this at face value, the city would have been no more advanced than a Neolithic settlement—hardly the world-bestriding colossus that was Atlantis.

Then to wrap it all up in a bow, he brings in haplogroup X to claim that both the Atlanteans and the Minoans mated with Native Americans and bequeathed to them their magic DNA. One of these Atlanteans or hybrids is therefore Kennewick Man, the “Caucasoid” skeleton found in 1996. Amazing how the DNA transfer never goes in the other direction. As I reported in Skeptic magazine many years ago, “In fact, after examining the mitochondrial DNA code instead of its relative frequency, a 2002 study linked the Native American haplogroup X genetically to that found in Siberia. This clearly tied Native Americans to Asia and not Europe.”

Djonis’s Atlantis book is yet another in an endless line of imaginary claims founded on the assumption that one can pick and choose details from Plato while claiming the result is true to the original. I’ll admit though that claiming he is the only person to correctly understand ancient Greek through the expedient of rearranged English translations catapults him even beyond Zecharia Sitchin in the realm of abuse of language.

12 Comments
Thorne
10/18/2013 06:38:13 am

Strange, this new theory is!

Reply
BP
10/18/2013 07:35:19 am

I LOVE all the old Atlantis movies from the 50s, 60s, and 70s, but never thought to take all those wacky ideas and put them across as real. Missed opportunity there, I could have made a furtune.
The interesting thing to me is that just about every spot on the planet has been put forth as the place where Atlantis existed. It would be vastly amusing if it weren't for the fact that people actually believe all this stuff.
Jason, if debunking all this mess starts to get you down, read John Jakes "Mention My Name in Atlantis", it has it all Atlantis, declining civilization, and aliens. One of my favorites and it doesn't claim to be fact.

Reply
T. Franke link
10/18/2013 10:45:16 am

While this weird Cyclades hypothesis is published, the German historical-critical spirit produced something totally different.

Yesterday, the German news magazin FOCUS presented something ... strange ...: Just an alternative invention hypothesis for Atlantis.

To be precise, it's Gunnar Rudberg's hypothesis from 1917, translated from the Swedish (into English) in 2012 for the very first time. Well, you cannot say that this is not strange. Usually, the media report about things like the Cyclades stuff. And now this ... surprise surprise!
http://bit.ly/17w64kW

Reply
Only Me
10/18/2013 01:02:13 pm

Ironically, last night I watched an Atlantis show on the Military Channel, produced in 2011. This "documentary" proposed that the island of Thera was the mystical Atlantis. I hadn't seen it before, but it's still funny it played the day before this headline.

Reply
Pyramidiot
10/19/2013 04:24:17 am

I have used Djonis´s method of analysis on the sentence "Hic sunt leones" and retranslated it as "This guy is from Lyons". I would like to make a longer commentary but I must rewrite the history of cartography. Sorry.

Nice blog, by the way.

Reply
C. Djonis link
10/21/2013 02:48:23 pm

Jason hi,

At first, let me say thanks for taking the time to visit my website www.AtlantisIslandRevealed.com.
As for your personal views though I must say those are highly deficient.

Just for the sake of argument, among other things you mentioned in your Blog that the flooding of the Black Sea took place around the period of 5600BC. While clearly you are speaking of the original Black Sea flood-hypothesis, published in 1997 by Ryan and Pitman, I am sure you are fully aware that a later study published in 2009, (a research conducted by the International Union of Geological Sciences and sponsored by UNESCO), indicated that the previous study was inaccurate, and the flooding of the Black Sea took place earlier in time and much closer to 8000BC. Of course, while you carefully labeled the later study as criticism, you failed to explain why you felt this way, or even mention to your audience the fact that there was a second study on this subject. What’s a half truth here or there though, between friends?

Moreover, you indicated that my personal interpretation of Plato’s account was inaccurate, just simply because according to your own best interpretation of Plato (apparently a difference of opinion) Atlantis was somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean. Of course, once more, it seems that you have conveniently forgotten to mention in your commentary the fact that many respectable historians and archaeologists also point that Santorini could have been Plato's Atlantis. So, according to these crazy scientists, if the setting of Santorini ever made a good match to Plato’s Atlantis, I was merely suggesting that the combination of Santorini along with the sunken island of Cyclades provided a perfect match. Once together, the north region of the primary island is entirely covered in mountains, there is an oblong valley below this region, and there is another smaller valley below the square valley, about 2/3 in size. Furthermore, exactly 9 km away, there lays the circular island of Santorini, a setting of an island within an island, just as Plato depicted. So, whether this discovery belongs to me or to someone else, as you so eloquently put it, the fact remains that all the physical characteristics of this discovery match Plato’s depiction. If my interpretation of Plato could be wrong though, how then do you explain that the sunken island amidst the Cyclades, along with the island of Santorini, fit Plato’s description of Atlantis entirely. If you ever bought a lottery ticket and all 5 numbers on it matched the winning numbers, what do you call that?

By the way, you are also grossly incorrect to imply that I don’t know the difference between modern and ancient Greek. Not only I am fluent in Greek, but I have also studied ancient Greek for four years. Long ago, while still in school, my favored class was translating Socrates from ancient to Modern Greek and ultimately debating the content with our professor and other classmates. For your information, when translating from ancient to Modern Greek, often enough, there is a variance even among native Greeks what exactly an ancient text meant to say. Having said that, before you continue quoting Plato to others, have you ever wondered or even questioned the translated account for accuracy? How can you say with absolute certainty that what you read was the meaning in the original text? In fact, how do you know for certain that when you read the translated document it means what you think it means? Obviously there is a huge difference of opinion, not only between you and me, but also among many scholars.

In another part of your Blog, you said that 10,000 years ago the Mediterranean sea level was 300 feet lower. Are you sure on that though? It seems that two separate studies, one published in the Science News on December 4th, 2010 (titled “Global Sea-Level Rise at the End of the Last Ice Age Interrupted by Rapid Jumps”) and the other by Dr. Francois Doumenge, in 1996 (Director of the Oceanographic Institute of Monaco), both showed the Mediterranean sea level by at least 400 feet lower. One should wonder if this is the only “innocent” inaccuracy in your Blog, or, there are more.

I was also quite surprised to see that, in regards to Göbekli Tepe, so naively you take for granted that the elaborate megalithic site which predates the Great Pyramid of Giza and Stonehenge by more than 6000 years was essentially erected by hunters and gatherers. As you suggested in your Blog, “Göbekli Tepe refutes the idea of Atlantis, for its sacred structures were constructed without the infrastructure of civilization—cities, farming, archaeologically visible political hierarchy, etc.” In other words, you argue that 20 mega structures, each measuring up to 100 feet in diameter and carrying 20-60 ton T-shaped pillars carved with animals and other decorations, were in essence erected by a mob of hunters and gathere

Reply
Jason Colavito link
10/21/2013 11:36:49 pm

Well, I know what Plato said because I read it in the original ancient Greek, though I quote the English edition because my readers don't speak Greek. I notice you do not defend your interpretation based on the actual rules of ancient Greek grammar and merely attribute it to a difference of "opinion," as though the rules of grammar were my "personal views" and not the standard understanding of ancient Greek since Plato's day. You seem to have confused your own idea of "debating" what the author meant with challenging the very rules of the language in which he stated it.

What exactly do you mean to suggest by arguing that the Mediterranean was 400 feet lower rather than 300? At that level, would the Cyclades island even be an island and not a peninsula connected to Greece?

Reply
C. Djonis link
10/21/2013 02:52:16 pm

In other words, you argue that 20 mega structures, each measuring up to 100 feet in diameter and carrying 20-60 ton T-shaped pillars carved with animals and other decorations, were in essence erected by a mob of hunters and gatherers, and on a part time basis. Contrary to your own beliefs though that revolve around 20 year old scientific interpretations, the site at Göbekli Tepe, along with other Neolithic sites, like the one on the island of Cyprus (Khirokitia,7th millennium BC), prove that people of that period were much more organized and less primitive than anthropologists previously thought.
As for the sunken city off the west coast of India in the Gulf of Cambay, you may want to look into more serious articles. A good one is from BBC News dated January 19th, 2002 and titled: “Lost City Could Rewrite History.” According to this article, construction material, pottery, sections of walls, beads and human bones were carbon dated and found to be 9500 years old.
Consequently, if an organized society erected the site of Gobekli Tepe, then you are also wrong in your conclusion that, the sunken island amongst the Cyclades was uninhabited. Just as other Neolithic humans were able to navigate and ultimately settle to Cyprus, any organized society, 10,000 years ago, could have easily reached the super island as it was located only few miles away from mainland Greece. In regards to elephants being on the island, you also confirmed that among other animals, there were dwarf elephants on this island.

As for haplogroup X, whether you realize it or not, X belongs to a Caucasoid lineage that originated around the Eastern Mediterranean, not in Asia as you somehow imply in your Blog. While all Native Americans carry haplogroups A, B, C and D (all Asian haplogroups), specific Indian tribes around the Great Lakes are also found to carry the Mediterranean haplogroup X.
After making some fun of my interpretation of Plato, and for suggesting as Plato did, that 10,000 years ago a Mediterranean culture visited North America via island hopping (from Faroe Islands, to Iceland, to Greenland, to the Great Lakes), you then cleverly point that the “Native American haplogroup X”, as you called it, is more linked with southern Siberia not Europe (I hope you are not suggesting that haplogroup X is Asian).
Nevertheless, in this case you entirely fail to realize that the region of Siberia you mentioned in your Blog is actually that of Altai Republic, and is exactly the same region I also mentioned by name in my website. What you fail to understand, or simply choose to ignore, is the fact that there are thousands of miles between southern Siberia and the Great Lakes of North America.
If according to your theory, Haplogroup X migrated to America on foot via the Bering Strait, how do you explain the fact that no signs of haplogroup X, none whatsoever, exist between Siberia and the region of the Great Lakes? (You may want to revisit your genetic sources before you answer that). And furthermore, how do you best explain that haplogroup X in North America seems to have started around the Great Lakes? Finally, out of a dozen Caucasoid haplogroups in Europe 10,000 years ago, found from Scotland to Siberia, how do you explain that only haplogroup X managed the trip to North America?

Reply
Jason Colavito link
10/21/2013 11:43:04 pm

I fail to understand your complaint about Gobekli Tepe. Are you suggesting that a city with farms, etc. built the site? If so, please do tell where you found evidence of domesticated food species used at Gobekli Tepe.

Your logic that "if" I am wrong therefore you are right is also wrong. That's not how logic works.

Your genetic argument seems to completely misunderstand evolutionary bottlenecks, human migration patterns. Current research proposes a migration of people related to the modern Altaians (the closest relatives of the Algonquian haplogroup X) around 5000 B.P., far too late, in fact, to meet your Atlantis claims.

I made fun of your claims because they are amateurish, and lack the rudiments of well-developed logic and reasoning to support claims as vast and far-reaching as yours.

Reply
Miltiadis Sarigiannidis link
7/19/2015 08:42:22 pm

Dear Mr Colavito, I just visited Mr Djonis site and I was struck by another major inconsitency: He freely interpretes "stadion", which is a measure of distance, as surface- when it suits him. THere is no way the central plain could be 500 km across, even with the sea level 400 feet lower than today- so Mr Djonis "bypasses" that problem by interpreting "stadia" as a surface measure.... Even Erich fon Daeniken would lough at that.

That said, I am fascinated by the Aegais (the one Cycladic island) discovery and would like to know more on that, hoping that more research will follow by SERIOUS archaeologists.

Z-Dogg
6/16/2015 10:48:00 pm

I would like to see more facts. I want to see evidence, references, etc..
I hate the modern fashion of criticism... Just prooving that something is wrong, this is the exact opposite of knowledge. Why you have to be so negative about something? Start by comparing the evidence given with your own evidence, that opposes this. But all this bullshit criticism always contains such an arrogant tone and attitude, that I started to define (THE MODERN CRITICISM) the same as misinformation. Just some arrogant guys that want to prove how people are wrong, no enlightment, no gained knowledge, just ego.

Reply
Thorne
6/17/2015 03:10:36 am

@Z-Dogg:
I think you've got things backwards, here.

"I would like to see more facts. I want to see evidence, references, etc."
Few who read this blog would disagree with you. And that is what Jason provides, in the vast majority of cases. He seeks out the references, the evidence. He examines the evidence offered by those making these elaborate claims. And if he finds that evidence lacking he points it out.

"Just prooving that something is wrong, this is the exact opposite of knowledge."
No, this is how you acquire knowledge. You can't just make fantastic claims that something is true, then go running around willy-nilly looking for evidence that can be twisted to support your claim, while ignoring evidence that negates it. You have to look at all of the evidence, in context, and develop the best hypotheses to fit that evidence.

"Why you have to be so negative about something?"
It's not being negative: It's being skeptical. And being critical of those who twist and ignore evidence in order to further their own agenda is not being negative, it's being positively honest.

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