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New Book Claims Homer's Iliad Proves Troy Was a Celtic City in Northern Europe

5/22/2019

45 Comments

 
​To promote the release of his self-published book The Discovery of Troy and Its Lost History, historical researcher Bernard Jones published an article in Ancient Origins highlighting the book’s central claim, that the ancient city of Troy (Ilium) was not located in Asia Minor as has been assumed since ancient times but instead was located in the Celtic world. His evidence is Homer’s Iliad, whose poetic descriptions he takes as literal depictions of a voyage to the New World.
​In the Iliad, a coalition of Bronze Age Mycenaean chieftains, the Achaeans, travel from Greece to Troy in order to demand the return of Helen, the wife of Menelaus, whom the Trojan prince Paris had kidnapped. Jones believes that Homer’s use of the adjective “salty” and description of the see as “wine-dark” and stormy means that it better describes the Atlantic Ocean than the Aegean Sea. This is a matter of opinion, of course; the Mediterranean, of which the Aegean is an arm, is salt-water, and how tumultuous you find the open water is probably more a function of how big your boat is and how far you travel by sail than it is an objective measurement of wave height. Jones claims that the “wine-dark” sea refers to the gray color of the Atlantic, but the issue of “wine-dark” water has been debated in scholarly circles for ages now, and I’ve never heard it discussed as gray. Instead, one common theory is that the Greeks had no word for blue and therefore did not distinguish between blue waters and purple wine. I don’t really believe that since the Greeks used blue in their wall paintings, but it shows you that Jones’s assumptions are speculative at best.
 
In another argument, Jones misunderstands Homer’s figurative language literally. In referring to a passage from Book 12 of the Iliad, he alleges that Homer describes a wintry landscape that does not agree with the warm climate of Troy. Here are the lines in question:
As the flakes that fall thick upon a winter's day, when Jove is minded to snow and to display these his arrows to mankind--he lulls the wind to rest, and snows hour after hour till he has buried the tops of the high mountains, the headlands that jut into the sea, the grassy plains, and the tilled fields of men; the snow lies deep upon the forelands, and havens of the grey sea, but the waves as they come rolling in stay it that it can come no further, though all else is wrapped as with a mantle so heavy are the heavens with snow--even thus thickly did the stones fall on one side and on the other, some thrown at the Trojans, and some by the Trojans at the Achaeans; and the whole wall was in an uproar. (trans. Samuel Butler)
​“Such an overwhelming blanket of snow that covers the whole land excepting only the rolling waves appears to indicate some northern land,” Jones writes.
 
But the key part of that passage is at the end, when the snow is revealed to be metaphorical and describing what the projectile stones hurled by the Greeks and Trojans looked like from a distance. Since Homer is emphatically not describing the actual weather at Troy, it doesn’t matter what Troy’s climate was like.
 
Jones supports his Nordic Trojan idea by noting that Homer described Helen’s skin as white. She was not a Trojan by birth, so this is irrelevant. . Ajax, whom Jones calls “white,” is also not Trojan. He further claims Lycaon of Troy had “white flesh.” Well, this is partly true. When he dies at the hands of Achilles in Book 21, Achilles threatens to let the fish eat his “white” fat. But no matter what you make of this, Greek terms for skin color don’t map easily onto modern racial categories, so any references to “white” skin cannot be assumed, as Jones assumes, to be “at odds” with the Mediterranean’s olive skin. The Greeks described skin colors in many ways that we would not today, and their definition of “white” was much broader than our Aryan-influenced pigment charts.
 
His other arguments are similarly weak. He assumes that when Homer sings the praises of a rich and fertile Greek homeland that Homer is speaking literally and therefore cannot refer to Greece, whose soils are notoriously thin. He alleges that the metals used in the Achaean armor could not be found in Greece, though he seems baffled by the idea that the Mycenaeans had extensive trade networks that stretched across the known world, or that Homer might have spoken of things known to him rather than those things that were known to the Mycenaeans. His poem, after all, is a product of the Greek Archaic, at least 500 years removed from the Mycenaean period.
 
Because Jones is stubbornly insistent on a literal reading of poetry and a belief that it must reflect conditions of five centuries earlier perfectly, he makes this absurd claim: “Here again it is puzzling that the society that Homer describes is a warrior aristocracy more easily recognizable in that of the early Celts. This heroic age is reflected in the Irish tales commonly known as the Ulster Cycle.” Do I even need to say that the Celts didn’t live on the Atlantic coast of Northern Europe in 1200 BCE during the Mycenaean period, or even around 700 BCE when Homer wrote? The current consensus is that Celtic language and culture arose in central Europe after 1300 BCE and developed into what we identify as Celtic culture today only around the time of Homer. They did not expand to the Atlantic coast until after Homer’s epics were composed.
 
This is hardly the first modern effort to relocate a Greek myth somewhere else. Jason and the Argonauts have been placed in Peru, and Atlantis was once famously relocated to Sweden. Homeric stories have been placed everywhere from England to the Amazon, and there isn’t really anything to recommend Jones’s ideas, which seem to be exceptionally under-baked, even by the low standards of the genre.
45 Comments
Accumulated Wisdom
5/22/2019 10:07:48 am

Helen can viewed as having three colors. Orange in the morning, white during the day and night, then appearing green when viewed through a telescope. She can even appear as a small white crescent. She is essentially the same as Persephone...AKA...Venus. like the Bible, personified astronomy taken literally.

Reply
Anthony Bardsley
5/22/2019 12:02:34 pm

Leaving aside the fact that day and night is pretty much everything, and the Greeks didn't have telescopes.

Just more nonsense.

Reply
Just more nonsense
5/22/2019 12:16:00 pm

Like historians claiming Mark dates from the first century, despite internal topographical errors that could not have been made by anyone living during the first century. No gospel fragments dating from the first century have ever been discovered.

Accumulated Wisdom
5/22/2019 01:16:51 pm

Be the name Guinevere, Venus, Aphrodite, Persephone, Hellen, or any other personification...It is still the SAME planet/god.

Ancient telescopes are still up for debate. Lenses have been found...smart enough to make an optical lens, and yet not smart enough to stack them... Other side of the world but, have you ever heard of a cenote? Makes for an excellent telescope.

A crescent Venus can be seen with the naked eye.

What exactly is nonsense??? Unless, you're speaking of an inability to comprehend abstract thought. Stuff which doesn't show up in your Google searches. Experience and reductionist thinking.

Try a lens and a bowl of water. Far away from City lights of course.

Anthony Bardsley
5/22/2019 04:52:44 pm

Ancient telescopes are NOT up for debate. Take that nonsense to Wolter's blog. Here's why: when someone invents the telescope the next thing he does is WRITE about it. And a telescope is not just "stacking lenses".

Cenotes are in Mexico, so same side of the world as far as I'm concerned.

A person with exceptional eyesight can resolve a crescent Venus but to quote The Red Hot Chili Peppers "So fucking what?"

I'm getting a whiff of mental illness from you. Are you okay?

Homer Sextown
5/22/2019 05:07:06 pm

"Like historians claiming Mark dates from the first century, despite internal topographical errors that could not have been made by anyone living during the first century. No gospel fragments dating from the first century have ever been discovered."

Surprised that "Anthony Warren" hasn't picked up on this, but clearly Mark's geography is related to constellations. Muhammad's Peanut Butter Be Upon Him overnight trip to Jerusalem on a magical horse is another topographical error, but that doesn't seem to bother you.

Accumulated Wisdom
5/22/2019 05:46:33 pm

ANTHONY BARDSLEY
5/22/2019 04:52:44 pm
"Ancient telescopes are NOT up for debate. Take that nonsense to Wolter's blog. Here's why: when someone invents the telescope the next thing he does is WRITE about it. And a telescope is not just "stacking lenses".

"The Nimrud lens, also called Layard lens, is a 3000-year-old piece of rock crystal, which was unearthed by Austen Henry Layard at the Assyrian palace of Nimrud, in modern-day Iraq. It may have been used as a magnifying glass, or as a burning-glass to start fires by concentrating sunlight, or it may have been a piece of decorative inlay."(Argumentative Archaeologist, Andy White's blog)

Or... It could have focused light into a bowl of water, working like a telescope.


"Cenotes are in Mexico, so same side of the world as far as I'm concerned."

Good. A cenote can still be used as a telescope.

"A person with exceptional eyesight can resolve a crescent Venus but to quote The Red Hot Chili Peppers 'So fucking what?'"

Well... I am 45 and still have perfect vision, however, seeing a crescent Venus is nothing special. Sometimes, during the day... If you look up... It's just there.

"I'm getting a whiff of mental illness from you. Are you okay?"

If you are getting a whiff from your computer... It's likely coming from your upper lip, and not me. That's just common sense, man.




Anthony Bardsley
5/22/2019 11:02:54 pm

Welcome to Thunderdome, Anthony Warren.

There's no evidence that the "Nimrud Lens" was used as a lens so we throw that away.

You clearly have no idea how telescopes are constructed so we throw everything you say about telescopes away.

A cenote is not a telescope. As Wolter would say: "FACT."

You have already lied about the books you've read so I I believe you lied about your eyesight. Nonetheless, someone with exceptional eyesight can resolve a crescent Venus.

I'm sorry to say you sound mentally ill but you really do sound mentally ill.

Accumulated Wisdom
5/23/2019 03:19:50 am

ANTHONY BARDSLEY
5/22/2019 11:02:54 pm

"Welcome to Thunderdome, Anthony Warren."

Really??? So...Are you Tina Turner, the angry little Aussie, or just the Gimp behind the leather mask?

You wouldn't happen to know a guy named Zedd? Nevermind. Zedd's dead.

Anthony Bardslet
5/23/2019 08:02:25 am

Nope, I'm the guy who took your Yahoo email away.
I'm sorry to say you sound mentally ill but you really do sound mentally ill.

Joe Scales
5/23/2019 09:24:10 am

It's not mental illness. He's just the dumbest one here. By far. That he insists on posting his moronic ramblings on a now daily basis is only because he mistakes rebukes for affirmation; thus believing he has a seat at the table.

Ed wensell
5/26/2019 09:25:49 am

Is that table something to aspire to?

An Anonymous Nerd
5/22/2019 07:47:47 pm

So let's see here....

Regarding the person who drags his Bible hatred into everything: The Fringe often likes to misrepresent the scholarly consensus and to assume that they know better than scholars. One day I'll look into the dating of Bible enough to try and verify your claims but until then I have no good reason to take your word for what the scholarly consensus is -- let alone assuming that you must, somehow, now better than folks who've studied this material their entire professional lives!

Not to mention that you drag these issues into entirely unrelated subject matters, solely for the purpose of saying "one scholar is wrong (in your view) therefore all scholars are wrong (in your view)."

One day I'll take a look at the dating of the Gospel of Mark for myself. Maybe.

Regarding the weird astronomy/"connect every dot" dude: In case anyone is thinking of taking him seriously, do not.

Note that in his first post on this article he's already conflating multiple different figure from the mythology and myth-history of Ancient Greece and in one case Medieval Britain (!!!), and also assuming some kind of astronomical connection, then back-sliding into what the people of the ancient world might have been able to do to make that astronomical connection.

To do this properly he'd have to establish the connections between these very different figures. Then between them and the stars. (For some of these figures those connections are mainstream, known scholarship, but not all. I've never heard of a Guinevere star, for example.) THEN we'd talk about what exactly they saw in the stars and how (in most cases the naked eye will do). (And do all this using legitimate scholarship rather than, say, Hancock type dudes.)

All he's doing is talking randomly and being an odd kind of troll-by-distraction. He does this a lot here.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Reply
Robber
5/22/2019 11:17:11 pm

"... may have been... or... or... or..."

Or aliens.

Accumulated Wisdom
5/23/2019 02:44:46 pm

Google Boy
"Note that in his first post on this article he's already conflating multiple different figure from the mythology and myth-history of Ancient Greece and in one case Medieval Britain (!!!), and also assuming some kind of astronomical connection, then back-sliding into what the people of the ancient world might have been able to do to make that astronomical connection."

Thank you for making it blatantly obvious, you don't get it. I have not conflated anything. All of the names mentioned are personas for the same planet. We currently call her Venus. This is really not a difficult subject to comprehend. King Arthur, Jesus, Hiram Abiff, Hercules, amongst a whole host of other personifications, reptesent the star we orbit. Aphrodite, Persephone, Guinevere, even Phosphorus are ALL the planet Venus.
Quit reading the myths, and religious texts literally... They're all talking about the Sun, Moon, stars, planets and even comets.

The names, gender, and personifications change with culture, however, the stars and celestial objects they represent, stay the same.

Once you have woke yourself to this fact, then we can start discussing the specialized astronomy with practical applications. Or, stick with your current paradigm, vacuity of original thought.

"All he's doing is talking randomly and being an odd kind of troll-by-distraction. He does this a lot here."

The very definition of "the pot calling the kettle black".

An Anonymous Nerd
5/25/2019 11:21:18 pm

[you don't get it.]

To some extent I do -- you want to conflate everything with everything and connect dots that don't exist with lines that you assume to be present.

[I have not conflated anything.]

Most of the rest of your post is conflating things. So, yes, you have.

-An Anonymous Nerd

A C
5/22/2019 10:32:53 am

Having a word for blue and using blue pigments doesn't actually correlate at all. Lots of languages have no word that translates directly into the English 'blue, for example modern Japanese 'aoi', their closest equivalent to 'blue' extends to cover sea greens.

Northern European soils are not necessarily fertile either, at least not with early iron age plows. There's a reason why the Romans relied on African grain exports from not only the Nile valley but the maghreb over their European territories which without Julius Caesar's individual megolomania they were in no rush to conquer.

Reply
Epimethee
5/22/2019 12:00:56 pm

You may enjoy this excellent analysis of the wine dark sea and Dionysos as a god of the boundaries by Maria Daraki: https://www.persee.fr/doc/rhr_0035-1423_1982_num_199_1_4750

Reply
Accumulated Wisdom
5/22/2019 03:22:32 pm

THANK YOU!!!

There is a wealth of information encoded into the illustration on page 2.

VERY COOL!!!

Reply
Pacal
5/22/2019 06:28:44 pm

This "theory" reads like a rehash of Jacob Wilkens book Where Troy Once Stood, (1990). Including the stuff about trans-Atlantic voyages.

How not original.

Wilkens was of course taking Nennis' and Geoffrey of Monmouth's story of the Trojan origins of the Britons just a little to seriously.

Reply
rsjson
5/26/2019 12:06:50 pm

The idea of Troy in Northern Europe is very old;
both Strabo and Plutarch put at least Calypso's Ogygia in the Atlantic
Another recent rival to Wilkens is Felice Vinci, The Baltic Origins of Homer's Epic Tales,1995 (Inner Traditions, 2006)

Wilkins puts Troy in England. The Greeks assemble from along the French and Frisian coast to Denmark and then cross the North Sea to Troy in East Anglia. Odysseus heads down the west African coast to the Lotus Eaters at about Cape Verde, then across to the Caribbean to the Laestrygonians and back using the Gulf Stream to Scylla and Charybdis in the English Channel, Ogygia in the Azores,etc; eventually home to Ithaca at Cadiz. (Wilkins foregoes an index...)
Vinci has Troy in Finland, west of Helsinki. Like Wilkens, Vinci's Peloponnnese is Denmark, but Odysseus only gets into the North Atlantic: Ogygia is in the Faroes, S & C at the Maelstrom in Norway's Lofoten Islands, and Ithaca is Lyo Island, southwest of Copenhagen..

Reply
Riley V.
5/22/2019 06:44:03 pm

So Schliemann just made all that stuff up? And faked the artifacts?

This guy’s hypothesis is as solid as Jesus visiting America after the Resurrection.

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
5/22/2019 07:52:02 pm

I could think of a lot of things that could lead to "wine-colored sea" and to assert a specific meaning would mean having a lot of supporting evidence. Here are two possibilities: foreshadow of the war; sunset or sunrise reflecting on the water strikes someone a certain way.

Frankly: I think it just sounded like wicked cool writing. Fantasy writers like to do that on occasion.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Reply
Epimethee
5/23/2019 04:46:13 am

I think it is a mistake to try to assert a positivist meaning to the wine-dark sea as much as it is reductive to only assert it as a cool writing.

In fact the sea is not only described as dark but also as white or as gloomy, like olive oil. Plutarch describe also some fountains as dark, in specific cases where they are linked to Dionysos. As much as how the sea was seen, those depictions are linked to the way it was understood. They crave to be explained in context, a contexte heavily influenced by religious thinking, how the gods, the myths, were organizing the world.

As Jason pointed out, this lead to a lot of controversies in academic circles but any analysis should be rooted in the texts of the ancients. Again, you should try to read the excellent and erudite analysis of Maria Daraki, if you are fluent in French, as it is in my opinion a quite interesting contextualization of the vocabulary of the wine dark sea.

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
5/23/2019 09:40:49 pm

[ as much as it is reductive to only assert it as a cool writing.]

I don't see that as reductive -- I also don't think what I said was an "assertion" exactly though I'll forgive your taking it that way.

Are you familiar with the famous lecture by JRR Tolkien about Beowulf? Sometimes it gets printed in anthologies, and that's how I encountered it. Essentially, Professor Tolkien argued that the story may well have been a story first and foremost and that all the scholarship over its meaning may have been missing the point.

Mr. Colavito and Professor Kenneth Feder argue something similar about Plato's Atlantis story. Just a cool story. Maybe inspired, loosely, by real disasters, maybe not.

That is what I'm suggesting about Homer. And "wine colored sea" as wicked cool writing fits with that. A nice turn of phrase for a fantasy story. Reductive to say that a story is a story first? Let's just say, not the word I would use.

-An Anonymous Nerd

Epimethee
5/24/2019 04:09:35 am

I hope this comment will go in the right place, but nevertheless...

Thanks for your kind forgiveness, you are right, it was more an hypothesis. And I am quite familiar with the academic writings of Tolkien. (Also I note that this broad assumption is supported by a huge scholarship, that Tolkien play up the poetical meaning of the work but offer an analysis that use historical and linguistically tools and that his defense of stories as a fictional landscape is made against the historical interpretations that downplay the monsters in a kind of euhemerisation that forget the poetical world in which the poem was composed.)

But still I think you are confusing stories and metaphors. As much as a story could only be a story, and even then it is framed in the culture that produce it, a metaphor play with analogies and is clearly referring to a symbolical order.

Homer is not the only one to describe the sea as wine-dark, and the relationship between the sea and the wine is not limited to this image. For example the same word, pitylos,is used to describe te sound of the wine against the jars and the sound of the sea against the ships. This and the fact that the ships and the dolphins were also commonly used as ornaments for the drinking goblets point to a symbolical and complex order of representations.

So i stand with reductive, as for most tautologies.

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
5/24/2019 07:47:26 am

Even from the "it's just a cool story" perspective, point taken -- the audience, after all, has to understand what you're saying, and you have to write stuff that speaks to them.

Now that I think about it, I never actually meant to call that much into dispute (and don't want to pretend to have a greater knowledge of the scholarship on Homer than I actually do), but.....Well let me put it this way.....

What context are we all writing in? Commenting on an article that criticizes the notion that "wine-dark sea" is part of the "proof" that Troy was actually a Celtic city in Northern Europe and that it was the Atlantic Ocean, not the Aegean Sea, that was at issue.

I would like to think that "it was just a cool turn of phrase," even in its most "reductionist" form, is more credible than that. *shrugs*

-An Anonymous Nerd

Epimethee
5/24/2019 10:11:29 am

On that count we agree i think but it is a pretty low bar. And i was under the impression that you would not shrug some actual scholarship on a subject that gores deeper and is far more interesting than some fringe rambling.

Reply
An Anonymous Nerd
5/25/2019 11:18:34 pm

[On that count we agree i think but it is a pretty low bar.]

True but that's where the prominence of the Fringe has brought us.

[not shrug some actual scholarship ]

Was not my intention to do so!

-An Anonymous Nerd

Jim
5/22/2019 08:57:25 pm

Besides the metaphorical aspect of the snow, it's not like it never snows down there.
Years ago I was lounging down by the Mediterranean sea in Agia Galini (south coast of Crete) when a sudden snow storm blew in over the protective northern hills/mtns.
It was a pleasant day all folks in teeshirts and shorts or cutoffs, yet in a matter of five or ten minutea there was enough snow cover for a giant snowball fight to break out.
It didn't stay long, yet we got a pretty good blanket of snow in a very short time.

Reply
AND
5/23/2019 03:04:47 am

WE ARE ALL TALKING SERIOUSLY ABOUT RUBBISH ON THIS BLOG

Reply
E.P. Grondine
5/23/2019 12:01:10 pm

https://egertronpuck.weebly.com/uploads/8/7/4/0/8740424/937559841.jpg

Note carefully the suns decorating bow of the ship in the middle panel. They are derived from Helios, Ilios, Wilusa.

Assuming that Marinatos identification of the port in the lower panel is Kalliste (Thera), then the port of Troy is shown on the upper panel, along with the Scamader and its canals.

A collection of Homeric metal lore in one place might be useful and of interest.

Reply
caveman
5/26/2019 03:56:09 pm

There is no reason not to take "wine-dark sea" literally. I have sat at dusk in an open air restaurant by the harbour at Rethymnon on the north coast of Crete and witnessed the sea darken to a deep claret colour as the sun sank below the horizon.

Reply
Accumulated Wisdom
5/26/2019 10:18:02 pm

There is a deeper meaning to Homer. The KEY to understanding is Hellen represents the PLANET we call "Venus". The "War" occurred in "Heaven".

Reply
David Evans
5/27/2019 03:24:24 pm

ACCUMULATED WISDOM
5/22/2019 05:46:33 pm

To make a simple telescope you need two optical elements - typically two lenses, but sometimes a lens and a mirror - of significantly different focal lengths. The magnifying power of the telescope will be the ratio of the longer to the shorter focal length. I do not know of any ancient lenses which differ enough in focal length to make a useful instrument.

Reply
Accumulated Wisdom
5/27/2019 09:45:16 pm

David Evans,

The "mirror" is the bowl of water. Maybe, some liquid other than water was used. Possibly Mercury.

First, focus your Target in the bowl of water. Then gaze upon it through your lens.

Reply
David Evans
5/28/2019 05:20:01 am

Why don't you try it? I guarantee you won't see a magnified image. In fact you won't be able to focus on a distant object at all. In a reflecting telescope the mirror has to be concave, to form a real image of the subject (i.e. a place where light from each point on the subject converges to a point on the image) which can then be looked at through the lens. A flat mirror will not do that.

Accumulated Wisdom
5/28/2019 10:40:09 am

The "Nimrud Lens" was discovered next to 2 bowls. If, I remember correctly, other ancient lenses have been found with, or near bowls.

Making a lens is time consuming. My last effort broke when, I got impatient and used my Dremel. I also need to track down the size and dimensions of the bowls found with the lenses. Also need to acquire a few thousand thermometers, or old thermostats to break open for the Mercury. A world wide blackout would help as well. Would likely work best if, used with "Horizonal Magnification".

I have only come here to learn, and pass on some of my ideas before, I pass on myself. Crafting a lens from my last piece of clear quartz is not how, I wish to spend my remaining time.

Anyone out there, who gets what I'm saying...Have at it.



David Evans
5/28/2019 10:58:19 am

You don't have to grind your own lens to test this. You can buy a magnifying glass (useful to have anyway) for a few pounds or dollars.

David Evans
5/28/2019 11:00:52 am

PS Please don't break open all those thermometers. Mercury is poisonous. Also if it worked with mercury it would work just as well with water

Reply
Accumulated Wisdom
5/28/2019 11:46:30 am

"You don't have to grind your own lens to test this. You can buy a magnifying glass (useful to have anyway) for a few pounds or dollars."

Authenticity and testing of processes.


"PS Please don't break open all those thermometers. Mercury is poisonous."

Come on, man... I'm not stupid.


"Also if it worked with mercury it would work just as well with water."

In my mind's eye, Mercury works better providing a reflective surface. Especially the way it balls up.

Would like to travel to a cenote carrying a magnifying glass.(the cenote would act as my bowl) In the near future, a distinct possibility.


Reply
David Evans
5/28/2019 12:04:35 pm

You are missing my main point. For a reflecting telescope to work, the main mirror must be concave in order to produce a real image. A flat surface will not do it, and when mercury balls up it becomes convex which is even worse. You can test this fact with a simple magnifying lens. There is no way that grinding your own lens will give a better result. Authenticity is a good goal but it won't circumvent the laws of physics.

http://astro.hopkinsschools.org/course_documents/light_and_telescopes/telescopes/reflecting/reflecting_scopes.htm

Accumulated Wisdom
6/4/2019 02:16:20 pm

David Evans,

Likely due to the ridicule which exists on this blog, you may have missed talk about capturing the light of Venus and the Sun through small apertures. There is more to my idea than just a lens and a couple of bowls.

David Evans
6/4/2019 05:22:26 pm

I have not seen your explanation of how you think the ancients were able to achieve useful magnification with their very limited selection of lenses. As I have pointed out, a flat reflecting surface (even in a cenote) won't work. Nor will viewing through narrow slits.

David Evans
6/4/2019 05:26:10 pm

PS Sorry, i misremembered your "small apertures" as narrow slits. But small apertures will at best reduce imperfections in the image. They won't increase magnification.
If there is more to your idea, what is it?

Reply

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        • The Many Wives of Jesus
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      • Giants in the Earth >
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          • Fossils, Myth, and Pseudo-History
          • Man During the Stone Age
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          • Fossils and Myth
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          • Mastodon, Mammoth, and Man
        • Fragments on Giants
        • Manichaean Book of Giants
        • Geoffrey on British Giants
        • Alfonso X's Hermetic History of Giants
        • Boccaccio and the Fossil 'Giant'
        • Book of Howth
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      • Extreme History >
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        • Origins of the Egyptian People
        • The Secret Doctrine >
          • Volume 1: Cosmogenesis
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        • Phoenicians in America
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        • Prince Henry Sinclair
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        • Chronology and the "Riddle of the Sphinx"
        • The Faith of Ancient Egypt
        • Spirit of the Hour in Archaeology
        • Book of the Damned
        • Great Pyramid As Noah's Ark
        • Richard Shaver's Proofs
    • Alien Encounters >
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        • "Flying Saucers"? They're a Myth
        • UFO Hypothesis Survival Questions
        • Air Force Academy UFO Textbook
        • The Condon Report on Ancient Astronauts
        • Atlantis Discovery Telegrams
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        • Noah's Ark Cables
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        • Scott Wolter Lawsuit
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      • Ancient Extraterrestrials >
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        • What Is Theosophy?
        • Plane of Ether
        • The Adepts from Venus
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    • The Supernatural >
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    • Classic Fiction >
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      • The Novel of the Black Seal
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      • Edison's Conquest of Mars
      • The Lost Continent
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      • H. P. Lovecraft >
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        • Lovecraft's Library in 1932
      • The Skeptical Poltergeist
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    • Miscellaneous Documents >
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      • Position of Viking Women
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      • James Dean's Scrapbook
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      • The Amazing James Dean Hoax!
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