New Journal Article Claims Younger Dryas Comet Destroyed Ancient Syrian Village

3/20/2020

This week, my 70-something aunt said that she and my uncle weren’t concerned about coronavirus or the precautions in place to prevent its spread because she believes it is a Democratic Party hoax to take down Donald Trump after impeachment failed. She thinks the whole world is conspiring to fake the disease to hurt Trump. My father told me that a friend of his said his ex-wife has the same belief. As my aunt and uncle aged, they moved steadily to the right, going from blue collar Democrats who proudly framed photos of themselves with Clintons in the 1990s to staunch Republicans after 9/11 and becoming die-hard Trump supporters in 2016 thanks to a combination of nationalism, xenophobia, and cultural anxieties. So that’s where we are as a country. Regular Fox News consumers have developed bizarre ideas about what the network had called the “Virus Impeachment Scam” until late last week, and now there’s no good way to undo it.

Meanwhile, we might as well talk about something a little less apocalyptic, like an actual apocalypse—at least a small one. In Science Reports last week, geologist James Kennett and a team of researchers reported that their reevaluation of material taken in the 1960s from the ancient Syrian site of Abu Hureya, where evidence for the transition from hunting and gathering to farming was first observed, shows that the prehistoric village had been destroyed by a cosmic impact, such as the fragments of the comet hypothesized to have hit the Earth during the Younger Dryas, around 10,500 BCE, creating what researchers term the “Younger Dryas boundary,” composed of various types of debris.

The existence of this comet impact is controversial, and scientific opinion remains divided, with most archaeologists, for example, reporting little evidence for the hypothesized impact in the records of ancient human occupation sites.

According to Kennett, the village shows evidence of having been suddenly destroyed by a wave of intense heat that left behind a layer of meltglass that formed at temperatures of 2200°C or higher. According to Phys.org:

"The critical materials are extremely rare under normal temperatures, but are commonly found during impact events," Kennett said. According to the study, the meltglass was formed "from the nearly instantaneous melting and vaporization of regional biomass, soils and floodplain deposits, followed by instantaneous cooling." Additionally, because the materials found are consistent with those found in the YDB layers at the other sites across the world, it's likely that they resulted from a fragmented comet, as opposed to impacts caused by individual comets or asteroids.

"A single major asteroid impact would not have caused such widely scattered materials like those discovered at Abu Hureyra," Kennett said. "The largest cometary debris clusters are proposed to be capable of causing thousands of airbursts within a span of minutes across one entire hemisphere of Earth. The YDB hypothesis proposed this mechanism to account for the widely dispersed coeval materials across more than 14,000 kilometers of the Northern and Southern Hemispheres. Our Abu Hureyra discoveries strongly support a major impact event from such a fragmented comet."

I obviously have no way of evaluating the strength of such a claim since I am not a geologist. But I can say that the evidence from Abu Hureyra does not support Graham Hancock’s claim that the proposed comet wiped out an Atlantis-like civilization, as advocates of Hancock’s view have implied on social media over the past days. For one thing, Abu Hureyra is still there for us to look at. Hancock alleges that the comet totally obliterated every trace of Atlantis’s global culture, down to the last screw and grain of pollen. And yet the village of Abu Hureyra remained for archaeologists to excavate. A culture like Atlantis that supposedly had outposts across the globe therefore had to have left something behind if a small settlement in the middle of nowhere managed the trick.

69 Comments

Jim Vieira

3/20/2020 10:03:47 am

My experience is that many people interested in ancient mysteries are progressive minded spiritual seekers who look back at ancient cultures attempting to ascertain examples of a more benevolent and connected way of living. They are open to esoteric ideas but I would not classify them as anti-scientific. I think it is an error to group them in with the right leaning ancient white supermen idea that we owe all our cultural advancements to some superior race. The Qanon conspiratorial lunatics will never change their minds and fail to realize that their preferences are weaponized by all the worthless propaganda they digest at Fox or other outlets that rot their brains. The real debate about ancient civilizations should be carried out by people who can look at these things objectively and include science with alternative ideas. The YDIH seems to show that a cataclysm did occur around Plato’s date for the sinking of Atlantis. Is it possible that there was a continent in the middle of the Atlantic that was advanced and co-existed with lesser advanced cultures much like we exist along with indigenous tribes in the Amazon? Then after this catastrophe survivors took their knowledge to places around the world to jumpstart civilization. This did not have to be a global anti-diluvian culture. The skeptical response usually is that plate tectonics does not allow for such a continent to have existed but I would counter that plate tectonics appears to have fatal flaws and may not be incontrovertible as once thought. Testing samples from the Mid-Atlantic range to see if portions were dry land 13,000 years ago would be a good start. The moral to the story is that all people interested in ancient mysteries don’t worship a perverted sociopathic orange pumpkin head. I think the real debate here is best undertaken by objectively oriented skeptics and alternative minded researchers. Jason, I appreciate your intellect and honest debunking but it would be nice to see you turn your abilities to a more balanced assessment of these topics. Televisions shows that you critique are mostly derived from the minds of producers who rely on fantasy, dry humps and false promises to keep the audience tuning in. They are entertainment and not scientifically oriented unfortunately. Unless of course I am helping to produce a show like the Lost Colony of Roanoke specials which I know you secretly love. People get off on shitting on each other but I think it’s a waste of time and that interest in the past should not devolve into that.

orang

3/20/2020 11:36:02 am

"...plate tectonics appears to have fatal flaws..."
This is news to me. Please elaborate.

Captain Cardiff

3/20/2020 07:35:27 pm

Good science is already objective and open to alternative ideas. But in this regard alternative does not involve changing the rules of the game in how science is done just to accomodate every completely unsubstantiated pet claim that comes along. Those who want to change the rules of science to a)everybody gets to play no matter how badly they suck at it, b) and everybody gets the same participation trophy for playing in a game they were unqualified to be in to begin with, c) and anybody can change any rule when convenient are just going to have to live with the disappointment of being running punchlines.

Special pleading does not become you.

Bezalel

3/20/2020 10:27:22 pm

Aaaa

3/21/2020 06:51:42 am

Science is soon up for a major change. Time to understand that there is no objective reality and everything is subjective. Reality is affected by the observer.

Jessica Sorrow

3/21/2020 07:58:27 am

Either ten feet tall giants exist or they don't. Either a fantastically advanced civilization existed in North America or it didn't. The Sphinx is either 10,000 plus years or it isn't. Either ancient aliens built baalbek as a UFO landing strip or they didn't. Either Templars were running about North America dallying with Indian maidens or they weren't. That is objective reality 101.

Pseudoscientists have been saying that science will be turned on its head by a new discovery any day now. They will still be saying it when we are all dust.

3/22/2020 11:41:58 pm

Science ALWAYS changes when new information....verified, tested, evidence-based information...comes in.
You AAAA are confusing your ignorant understanding of science with what religion does.
And your last statement applies to the microscopic world of quantum mechanics...”observer based reality” was fully discussed and developed in the 40’s ...Every student in junior and senior level physics and engineering programs learns this. Basic electronics wouldn’t function or exist without the fundamentals of QM.
So catch up

Kent

3/21/2020 03:16:09 am

This is old, discredited talk. The short version is "No."

Where did the infrastructure to provide the boats or kites to get to the continent in the middle of the Atlantic come from?

"Is it possible that there was a continent in the middle of the Atlantic that was advanced and co-existed with lesser advanced cultures much like we exist along with indigenous tribes in the Amazon?"

Is it possible that there was a continent in the middle of the Atlantic that was advanced and co-existed with lesser advanced cultures much like we exist along with the homeless in San Francisco and Los Angeles?

This is old, discredited talk. The short version is "No."

Michel

3/20/2020 01:25:25 pm

Can’t Atlantis be under the waters of Atlantic Ocean?

An Anonymous Nerd

3/20/2020 05:21:24 pm

The "Atlantis" of the Fringe imagination is a hyper-diffusionist super-civilization. This Atlantis didn't exist and therefore is not under the Atlantic Ocean. We know this Atlantis didn't exist because there are no traces of it. Everything that is taken as being traces of, or evidence of, Atlantis, or any similar culture, is better-explained elsewhere.

-An Anonymous Nerd

TONY S.

3/21/2020 12:49:05 am

There is also the fact that Plato himself says the story is made up.

Plato and other ancient writers invented a number of fictional lands. None of them was ever considered real history until Ignatius Donnelly wrote his book on Atlantis and kick started the whole industry of "Atlantis is real" industry.

Besides which, the topography of the ocean floor has been extensively mapped and studied. There is zero evidence of a now sunken landmass that was once recently above water in the area and time period mentioned by Plato. Nothing. Zilch.

3/21/2020 03:49:00 pm

Tony, you've triggered the historico-critical alarm by stating the plain truth that Plato says Atlantis is a story about a story about someone telling someone else a story.

Doc Rock

3/20/2020 02:07:58 pm

I'm not a Trump fan and I think that Trish Regan who pushed the scam/hoax virus spin the most has the IQ of a freshly shucked oyster. However, the scam/hoax discourse that I have seen is in reference to the assertion that Democrats and the media have tried to spin the narrative in order to place all the blame for the handling of the situation on Trump. It's not an issue of the disease being faked.

Keep in mind that when Trump banned travel from China the reaction by some on the left approached hysteria. When you try to craft a narrative that anything that Trump did early on is reactionary, isolationist and racist and everything that he does at this point is too little too late, you can't blame people for thinking that the media is trying to scam or hoax them in terms of influencing public opinion toward how things are being handled.

It doesn't help the situation when you have some politicians calling (this has happened in Illinois and New York) for a halt to the sales of firearms and ammunition during the crisis. Plays perfectly into the narrative that the Dems are exploiting the situation to particular political ends.

3/20/2020 04:14:44 pm

And here is, let's be honest, an idiot lawyer from MSNBC:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/msnbc-legal-analyst-trump-must-be-investigated-negligent-homicide-manslaughter

He makes Trish Regan look smart. Of course she's always looking gooooood.

To keep this on the main topic, one can use the Google Search feature on the Search Page of this website to get caught up on previous mentions of Kennett and his work, as well as Jason's search for a cheap watch with far too many numbers on it.

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/search.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=kennett&sitesearch=JasonColavito.com

Without naming any specific idiots, yes this site has a Search Page and yes that Search Page has a Google Search feature.

Walter

3/20/2020 05:47:14 pm

MSNBC and CNN led the way in fielding talking heads who gushed over the prospect of Stormy Daniel's lawyer running for President. They also screeched the loudest that Trump was going to start a nuclear war with China because he took a phone call from the leader of Taiwan. They said Trump was going to start a war by ordering the dropping of a bomb in Syria but then accused him of enabling genocide for refusing to embroil large numbers of US troops in a ground war there. They were also willing to allot plenty of air time to apologists for violence by ANTIFA.

FOX does not hold a monopoly on idiots who overhype some media representations while downplaying others.

3/20/2020 07:53:05 pm

Too true. There are unlimited idiots on both teams. Looking at you Joe Sweaterburgers and Lady Motorboat.

Treasury Secretary Mnuchin thought Trump could do a line item veto.

Obama invented putting border children in cages.

Trump inherited the illegal Syria War from Obama who started it with the urging and assistance of John "Burn in Hell Fifty Years Too Late" McCain.

I don't see anyone stopping the illegal occupation of Afghanistan or Iraq, three Presidents in.

3/20/2020 05:40:09 pm

[[However, the scam/hoax discourse that I have seen is in reference to the assertion that Democrats and the media have tried to spin the narrative in order to place all the blame for the handling of the situation on Trump. It's not an issue of the disease being faked. ]]

Hmm.

Are you certain? By "fake" do you mean "doesn't exist at all" or "was manufactured in some way" or "is being exaggerated?"

https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-firefighters-corona

Multiple versions are described in there, by the Conservative rank and file. First responders no less.

But let's shift to the Conservative leadership, and note the following:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/sen-tom-cotton-coronavirus-origins

Senator Tom Cotton (R-Arkansas) floated the notion that the virus was created. OK, that's not quite the same thing as a "hoax," but the idea is the same. Note the sympathetic frame of the article. It's a "startling theory" rather than something there's specifically no evidence for. (Everything I've read says there's specific evidence this thing is a natural virus.) Finally note the source of the link.

Here are some descriptions of similar fantasies being perpetuated by similar folks.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/17/covid-19-coronavirus-did-not-come-from-a-lab-study-shows-natural-origins/#722699513728

Here's a fun one. Semi-related. China is saying similar stuff about us because of course they are.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/world/asia/coronavirus-china-conspiracy-theory.html

*shrugs*

-An Anonymous Nerd

3/20/2020 10:09:34 pm

Nerd,

Take note that I was relating "what I have seen" to the specific assertions made by Colavito about media representations. What individuals choose to make of these representations is another issue. No doubt if one spends enough time surfing the internet, watching youtube clips, and listening to what people say at the kitchen table or down at the coffee shop they can come up with enough ammo to fight whatever partisan battle that they want concerning this mess.

For whatever her intellectual flaws, Trish Regan certainly has a nice set of legs. On that note, i think that I will have another shot of my remaining Tullamore Dew while mourning my lost opportunity to serve as judge of the St. Paddy's shortest kilt contest (waitress version) that was cancelled at my favorite pub.

3/22/2020 11:36:32 am

["what I have seen"]

I guess if one doesn't look very well one will not see all there is? *shrugs*

This sort of stuff, in the mainstream of the Conservative movement and out in the open, is not new, it's just gotten worse. Not my fault you seem to be selective in what you pay mind to.

For understanding it, please ignore Adorno's "The Authoritarian Personality." Though popular among a certain crowd that normally agrees with me politically, it is simply not useful as it appears to assume that Conservatives are the "authoritarian personalities" of which it speaks. This idea is comforting to me to be sure but it's not analytically useful.

Rather, start with Hofstadter's "The Paranoid Style in American Politics" (preferably the physical collection which has other useful essays but the stand-alone essay is available online). Then I guess there's Bloom's "The Closing of the American Mind" as a reference for where those sorts of folks are coming from but it's nearly indecipherable. Then for run see a lot of the anti-Bill Clinton books from the 90s, and Gingrich's earlier books too, and realize that many folks on that side of the fence were in this territory decades ago.

But other than my first recommendation most of that stuff is in the primary source category given what we're studying. For more analytical and/or reflective works, I reckon there's any number of books in the fields of History or Political Science you can move on from there but I'm drawing a blank for some reason.

Well, hmm. I could swear there are some useful insights in Young's "Reconsidering American Liberalism" but it's been years since I read it and, honestly, those insights may have been accidental. Young didn't really understand Conservatives all that well. He tried.

Just, dear God, stay away from Adorno, Horkheimer, Habermas, any of those dudes. More useless than Leo Strauss, because Strauss is at least useful for studying the folks he influenced (such as Bloom), and because he has one telling insight into Machiavelli. (Hey, one insight is better than none.)

-An Anonymous Nerd

3/22/2020 01:09:45 pm

Well, if you have to look really well for any particular representation then what does that say about how common they are? And since you seem preoccupied with stupid stuff from the right wing media as opposed to considering both sides of the coin in relation to the current situation then aren't you being much more selective than I am?

One more time, i was relating what I have seen on Fox news to what Jason said about Fox news because that was the specific topic that he introduced. Its not my fault if you are selective about how you want to portray that discourse.

3/23/2020 11:05:36 am

[Well, if you have to look really well for any particular representation then what does that say about how common they are?]

In context, this essentially this says that the fact that I can muster evidence to support an argument, and am willing to do so, are negative things.

All I can say to that, really, is that I do not agree.

[And since you seem preoccupied with stupid stuff from the right wing media as opposed to considering both sides of the coin in relation to the current situation then aren't you being much more selective than I am?]

I am aware of the existence of a Left Fringe, but, as I have shown repeatedly here and elsewhere, the issue is that on the Right the Fringe is mainstream whereas on the Left the Fringe is recognized as Fringe. I have indeed considered both sides, I'm just following the available evidence to its logical conclusion. In my mind, this is a good thing. As is the fact that I can present and document the evidence at hand. Am I "preoccupied" with following the evidence? I guess I am. But, again, I refuse to see that as a negative.

If you have any legitimate questions about this material, or the references I have provided, please let me know. I don't have all of this material on-hand anymore so I might not be able to answer all of them.

-An Anonymous Nerd

3/23/2020 02:30:30 pm

You have lost me here and continue to be quite selective in how you interpet by remarks. I would suggest that you try to persuade Jason to re-write the original article in a manner that your comments would then become both relevant and accurate in terms of responding to what I specifically posted in response to what Jason specifically said.

Thanks for the references, but since I taught a Popular Culture in college for years that focused on the critical analysis of things like political and news media discourse I know the drill quite well.

Now if you will excuse me, I'm about to don plastic gloves and surgical mask and head off to the drive-thru Booze Barn for my stay-at-home Happy Hour refreshments. My concept of social distancing.

3/26/2020 07:45:14 am

"Doc" Rock: I am afraid nothing in your most-recent reply on this thread qualifies as a legitimate issue or question about the material.

This is a simple matter: You made an unsupportable statement -- or, at minimum, a statement that only was supportable if you literally meant to base your own experience and your experience was extraordinarily narrow. I, accordingly, sought to broaden your vision, and you flipped out and, by your own description, went to the bottle. (The latter puzzles me a bit but hey.) *shrugs*

-An Anonymous Nerd

William Fitzgerald

3/20/2020 10:05:25 pm

Amen, Doc Rock.

"[B]ecoming die-hard Trump supporters in 2016 thanks to a combination of nationalism, xenophobia, and cultural anxieties."

I am not going to speak for your aunt and uncle, but, it is generally more complicated than "nationalism, nationalism, xenophobia, and cultural anxieties." For one, as people age they do tend towards conservatism; or rather conservatism finds them. I could easily understand blue-collar sensibilities as patriotic and preservation of work and culture. Patriotism may manifest in your eyes as "nationalism," and in the American sense this is often a distinction without a difference (European nationalism is a different can of worms). "Xenophobia" may really be misgivings (often legitimate) about migrants undermining well paid jobs on-top of hyper-globalization removing jobs entirely; this is not a petty concern. "[C]ultural anxieties" may be a natural and age-old concern over immigrant assimilation (or rather lack thereof) and a reaction to the new 'woke' culture that denigrates traditional beliefs, which until relatively recently were held up by our society as virtuous, but now regarded as being backward and even a form of bigotry.

It may be that your aunt and uncle didn't so much as leave the Democratic Party, but the Party left them.

3/21/2020 04:34:03 pm

William,

You can probably see shifts in political philosophy with age on both times of the aisle and it isn't really a new thing. After graduation some long haired college hippy types cut their hair, don a suit, and begin to show a marked disinterest in paying higher taxes to support social programs. Some college young Republicans soften their stance on gay marriage/partnerships, marijuana legalization, and foreign policy by the time that they hit middle age.

Nothing like recessions, unpopular wars, being a victim of a violent crime, or having a gay son/daughter come out of the closet or become addicted to heroin to make people rethink their political philosophy.

3/21/2020 06:46:36 pm

This lifelong Republican ("Nixon's the One!") has always been in favor of gay marriage, marijuana legalization, fewer and ideally no wars in accord with Adams's dictum to not "go abroad in search of monsters to destroy."

Also, legal heroin would be a good thing. And cocaine, and PCP. Someone can say "What about blahblah?" and I will say "Yes! Legalize it yesterday!"

Also, felons should be allowed to vote and own guns. If you don't agree that's fine, but let's stop allowing them to go to church and read newspapers.

3/22/2020 09:27:44 pm

Kent,

It looks like you and I aren't as far apart in our views as I thought.

Good to know.

Van Meter

3/24/2020 06:47:56 am

Nobody here has conducted a content analysis based on a scientific sampling of media coverage of the outbreak. Without that you are all playing with monopoly money.

3/24/2020 03:58:21 pm

Van,

Scientific sampling ain't so scientific if the raw data isn't properly vetted. If you don't drill down on the validity of anecdotal data objectively then you may end up with a garbage in/garbage out analysis. The key is objectivity. It's like accepting a Native American story, or not, about light skinned visitors long ago in relation to the issue of prehistoric transoceanic contact based on your own desired conclusion rather than evaluating it on its own merits. You are putting the cart before the horse.

3/27/2020 10:48:30 am

You're not wrong, of course, that a more-rigorous analysis would be preferable. The specific methods can vary. Until then, though, we just use what we have.

I will admit freely that I have not conducted a scientific, rigorous study of any kind of this stuff. Last time I tried to do that for media was a long time ago, trying to imitate Michael Parenti's "Inventing Reality." It floated away like so much else.

By the way, that book pretty much eviscerated the notion that the media has a Liberal bias. *shrugs* And doubtlessly it's even less true now.

-An Anonymous Nerd

3/20/2020 02:12:47 pm

"Regular Fox News consumers have developed bizarre ideas about what the network had called the “Virus Impeachment Scam” until late last week, and now there’s no good way to undo it."

I'm a regular Fox News viewer, I regularly watch one hour a week from 2 pm to 3 pm every Sunday but this is the first I'm hearing of this "Virus Impeachment Scam". Why not just say "basket of deplorables" and be done with it?

Here's what was actually said:

"We’ve reached a tipping point. The hate is boiling. Many in the liberal media are using coronavirus in an attempt to demonize and destroy the president, despite the virus originating halfway around the world.

This is yet another attempt to impeach, and sadly, it seems the left cares little for any of the destruction they leave in their wake, including losses in the market. This, unfortunately, is all just part of political casualties for them."

Inflammatory maybe, but hardly worth getting worked up about.

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."
- Rahm Emmanuel, Obama Chief of Staff

Monica Lewinsky liked having her picture taken with President Stress Relief too. Now, not so much. In the current climate Bill "Kiss It" Clinton is being reevaluated and now plays the albatross to Hillary's Ancient Mariner. Or to use a more modern analogy he's black and white Frank Gorshin from the original Star Trek and she's white and black Frank Gorshin. They are tied together forever. Too bad, like Al Franken she was an okay Senator but then she Peter Principled. Bill on the other hand has never had any peter principles.

I've looked at the Moore/Kennett/Napier paper and see no mention of corn or fast neutrons so they've still got their work cut out for them.

E.P. Grondine

3/20/2020 04:03:10 pm

Hi Jason -

About 95% of the people living in North America died during the Holocene Start Impact Events. Where ejecta landed at 10,850 BCE is another issue.

In any case, Plato came up with a winner when he created his story of Atlantis.

3/20/2020 05:31:43 pm

This is old, discredited talk. The short version is "No." Those interested in reading bad language which I will not reproduce can look here:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-ancient-aliens-s14e13-the-constellation-code

"Generally, the comet impact that killed off the mammoth and mastodon is considered important by everyone working in the field now. I first wrote about that in 2005, even before Firestone and Kennett."

Actually Ignatius Donnelly beat you to it in 1883.

"A study of Paleoindian demography found no evidence of a population decline among the Paleoindians at 12,900 ± 100 BP, which was inconsistent with predictions of an impact event. They suggested that the hypothesis would probably need to be revised."

Holliday VT, Meltzer DJ (2010). "The 12.9-ka ET Impact Hypothesis and North American Paleoindians". Current Anthropology. 51 (5): 575–606.

Buchanan B, Collard M, Edinborough K (August 2008). "Paleoindian demography and the extraterrestrial impact hypothesis". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. 105 (33): 11651–4.

Haynes G (2009). American megafaunal extinctions at the end of the Pleistocene. Springer. p. 125.

E,P, Grondine

3/24/2020 11:04:43 am

All rebutted, Kent. Usually in the journal in which they published.

Go over to the Cosmic Tusk for details.

Plain fact is that based on quarry use and tool production, 95% of the people living in North America were killed by comet impact
around 10,850 BCE.

It appears that President Trump is looking for another public health advisor, one who will tell him what he wants to hear.. Perhaps you cold help him out.

Ziggy Stardust

3/24/2020 02:52:24 pm

Isn't Cosmic Tusk the blog where they are claiming that the Coronavirus came from outer space.

Jim

3/24/2020 05:55:43 pm

Perhaps the alien vampires that David Childress talks about brought the Coronavirus from outer space.

3/24/2020 09:37:09 pm

"All rebutted, Kent. Usually in the journal in which they published."

I await your citation of the rebuttals. Actually I don't because I don't expect to live forever. If you do come up with citations from established academic journals and NOT "The Cosmic Tusk" I will remind you preemptively that the rebuttals are not the final word as the articles from established journals that I CITED are also not.

Jason, you have to give me this one! Clean as a whistle.

3/25/2020 01:48:56 pm

Kent, there was a time I would respond to your nonsense point by point, butt those days are over. i have no responsibility to set you as an individual straight.

There was a reason Dragoo spent so many pages of "Mounds for the Dead" speculating on the source of the height gene, and it was not just one "tall" skeleton.

Sometimes the data has to be searched for, and other times it just appears in the course of normal excavations, and you have to deal with it. I have found it best to not argue with those who are not excavating, but instead to limit myself to dealing with those who are the field, and with tribal historians.

You yourself do not fall into either of those categories.

3/25/2020 03:42:33 pm

There is no "height gene".

Dragoo claimed to have found ONE 7'2" skeleton (in West Virginia, not Pennsylvania).

You're good at asserting but you're not good at backing up your assertions. That's a pity. I'll continue to call you out on what I deem to be nonsense. Have a blessed day.

3/26/2020 10:48:12 am

well hi, Kent -

Yeah, if you go down to Romney and head west on US 50, you;ll see the colonial graveyard on the north side of the road, which is where those mounds were. First excavated by the Smithsonian around 1915, Dragoon started in on them again.

But the Tall skeleton there was not the only one he found. You're leaving out his colleague Neumann, and the excavations across from Steubenville. As well as Webb and Snow's excavations.

You'll have to excuse me, but the Andaste were genocidally killed off in 1676, and then their ancestors' remains were used to construct an imaginary white people, and today it is fashionable to deny they ever existed.

In as much as I type with difficulty, here's a few educational videos:

https://youtu.be/aBFlFRLnzk8

https://youtu.be/bVFoE8pYKAc

3/26/2020 01:42:18 pm

Executive Summary: I don't really care.

Don't need the Google Maps business, but as I said, West Virginia.

Yes, ONE 7'2" skeleton. Your words: *the* Tall skeleton. I "leave out" Newmann et al. because I have a laser-like focus on Dragoo and will not be dragged into the "but what about but what about but what about" game.

https://wvexplorer.com/2019/08/13/scholars-debunk-myth-of-prehistoric-giants-in-west-virginia/

"According to one of the curators at the Carnegie Museum of Natural History, the seven-foot measurement may even be a typo, as it can not be found in Dragoo’s original notes."

I don't care about the "Andaste genocide". Too long ago, nothing to do with me, happens all over the world.

"[T]oday it is fashionable to deny they ever existed."

Sounds like you patronize some mighty peculiar salons if that's your idea of "fashionable". And finally, I have a policy of not looking at any videos to which you post links and it has served me well.

3/26/2020 11:30:57 pm

Well, Kent -

We can add early Pennsylvania colonial history to with Pennsylvania archaeology and Native History in the list of things which you know little about.

It is a a right pain in the *ss to be the memory of the Andatse.I can add the Ocanache and the Yazoo to that list.

Here I make it so you do not even have to read.

3/27/2020 01:00:56 pm

"Sounds like you patronize some mighty peculiar salons"

If not for the corona virus, I'd be in Natchez at the powwow, conversing with Chicasaw, Choctaw, Natchex, and other Native Historians. We might be talking about the Nuhallo, or anything else.

I have an absolute responsibility to share the truth as best I can. I could discuss Native methods for dealing with oral history with you, but that would be pointless. I stick to the facts as best I can.

One of the things I have seen over the years was Harrison trying to turn Native memories of the "giants" into a lost white race.
I will see if Jason caught that or not. I am hoping that he included a picture of the model for the Grave Creek Stone in his book.

All of the Native crafters have been wiped out by the virus shutting down the powwows,their markets.

I do not know the temperature of the impact ejecta when it landed, so I do not know if the village was set on fire. What is interesting is that there was a village at 10,850 BCE. This may be earlier than PPN A or Gobekli Tepe, an amazing find in any case.

Paul

3/24/2020 06:36:45 pm

No, no, no and no again. Proof, actual proof, not some pseudo historical mumbo jumbo. Claims like that are not worth the bandwidth they take up. With any luck, during the virus lockdown, you will actually take in some genuine science and history.

Darold knowles

3/20/2020 05:21:21 pm

It’s a good thing Jason recently modified the posting policy, because under the old regime, this would have quickly degenerated into the bitterest, ugliest exchange in the history of the blog — and that’s saying something. Then again, given the likely dire outcome of the pandemic, perhaps Jason should go ahead and reopen the floodgates and let people “enjoy” the limited time of relative normalcy they have left.

Bagger Vance

3/20/2020 08:46:43 pm

Not really. Some of the ugliest and extended flame wars here have occurred over trivial things. We have yet to see someone try to correct someone on a minor grammatical error, slight lapse in logic, or small factual error only to flip out when their own error is pointed out by someone else. So far so good as long as participants stay on point and meet the relatively low standard of civility for discussing important topics. Otherwise we can easily imagine what comments are being deleted by the moderator.

3/21/2020 12:02:22 am

You may be right about that. I’ll add that a big part of me feels sorry for these MAGA people who are now experiencing the total collapse of their ideological bubble. It’s natural that they would try to put perfume on a turd after they’ve committed themselves so completely around a cult of personality. But soon, none of it will matter as we’ll all be in the soup together. I’m not going to waste my time rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Joe Scales

3/21/2020 10:51:32 am

Jason,
Publicly shaming your own family to make political smears is most distasteful and works to discredit any rational point you attempt to make thereafter. Perhaps you should continue to write such things as you work... you know... as sort of a release of your own angst. Then properly delete such dicta for your finished product. Unless you want to inspire more partisan squabbling that sets people against each other here on your site. Don't think we really need that right now.

Mad Anthony

3/21/2020 03:27:21 pm

It is common for writers to use anecdotes about family and friends to pursue a particular point. They are often not flattering. Had Jason written a piece based on what his naive brother-in-law believes and the topic wasn't a goring of your ox then you probably wouldn't have much to say.

3/21/2020 04:54:23 pm

Sometimes those family and friends don't even exist. An example is at
https://www.theufochronicles.com/anthonywarrensprofessors.html or
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/whywescuttledthegiants.asp

We see this with Mr. Interlocutor and Mr. Bones.

Aren't oxes more likely to be doing the goring as opposed to being gored?

3/21/2020 06:37:45 pm

Not a Martin Luther fan?

3/21/2020 07:15:28 pm

Bullocks

3/24/2020 11:25:04 am

Hello again, Kent, I type with extreme difficulty, but your confusion, which you insist on sharing, with others here, leads me to respond.

The Natchez Powwow has been canceled due to the virus, otherwise I might have been able to share with you a few pictures of Osage. Not all Native Americans look like Kickapoo Joe.

Those archaeologists excavating in Pennsylvania are generally familiar remains of extreme height. See Dragoo's "Mounds for the Dead" for details.

I need to add here that I can not endorse Andy White's field school until he comes up with an action plan for dealing with the poisonous plants at "his" site. It appears that he does not understand the danger these present to his students..

3/24/2020 10:11:18 pm

Mr. Grondine:

I pointed out your misconception of Kickapoo Joe on August 15, 2019.

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-code-of-the-wild-s01e03-lost-race-of-giants

https://oklahoman.com/article/2100454/kickapoo-joe-creator-lauded

Your misconception and failure to research speak volumes about how much truck I should put into anything you say.

Dragoo claims he found one 7'2" skeleton. If I've missed any other giant skeletons he claims to have found please enlighten me.

Andre the Giant was 7'4" and The Big Show is 7'0". This does not mean there is a large group of (presumably related?) giants in either France or the U.S. Notice I don't mention NBA players who seem frail by comparison.

But now I will. Manute Bol is 7'7" and Dikembe Matumbo is 7'2" so by your reasoning we can assume there are a lot of giants running around Africa. We are figuratively SWIMMING in giants! It's a golden age.

3/21/2020 06:39:53 pm

Two claims being made, one Atlantis was real. Some people believe in magical unicorns. Both have about the same basis in reality. As for not believing in tectonics, tell that to folks living in earthquake zones.
As for Trump vs. Biden, two butt cheeks of the same arse. 330 million people and it comes down to those two. Do not think either side has much to brag about so why butt heads? Find an elderly person and buy them some groceries, you would be doing more good.
As for the pseudo fringe, learn real science and history first, then argue your nonsense. Everything you learned in school is all wrong, what an idiotic mantra!

3/21/2020 11:28:36 pm

We had earthquakes long before people started theorizing about techtonics, and you may even be making a connection that isn't there.

I think it's just so cute that you think Biden is going to be a nominee. That's Corky thinking. Any major dude with half a heart surely would tell you my friend, about the gray fishy tangled bird's nest you will see on your ballot. It's not going to be pretty.

3/22/2020 11:46:57 am

Oh by the way: For those of you spouting the notion that it's somehow natural to get more Conservative when you get older, know that according to one of the standard textbooks on party politics in the US (Hershey's "Party Politics in America") for the most part party identification remains stable over time. Sure certain individuals can change their views but in general it remains stable and it's not a natural or inevitable process.

Sometimes a process that Political Scientists call "Party Sorting" happens -- this is where folks switch identification to better-align their beliefs with their party identification.

There's a Political Scientist who's been profiled on Politico.com, I forget her name, but she's gotten famous for applying knowledge of "Party Sorting," and some of the insights of the famous book "The American Voter" (which is from the 50s by the way), to making electoral predictions. So these sorts of things, though long-known among those who study this, are coming to the forefront of different but related conversations.

The key to understanding a lot of how people vote is the long-understood insight that most folks vote the party they identify with most of the time and it takes a lot to break that. In "The American Voter" the big example was Democrats voting for Eisenhower. In the 80s there might be the example of "Reagan Democrats," though the reasons for that phenomenon remain somewhat controversial among those who study it.

Taking all this into account, allow me to plant a brain worm: If most conspiratorial-mined folks wind up in the Conservative-minded party, isn't that a telling insight into both, at this present moment?

-An Anonymous Nerd

3/22/2020 01:33:44 pm

What about those conspiracy-mined (whatever they are) folks on the left who think there is a conspiracy on the right? Blows your theory apart.

3/23/2020 11:23:12 am

So, based on this statement, it is your position that the mere existence of conspiracy-minded folks on the Left "blows apart" the theory that the process of party sorting favors those of a conspiracy-minded nature tend to get sorted to the Right.

I will offer an analogy: If you could find a Liberal Democrat who, for whatever reason, agreed with Republicans on the issue of abortion, would this "blow apart" the theory that party sorting favors the pro-choice side landing in the Democratic column? Or, likewise, a Democrat who was rated highly by the NRA?

In all cases the answer is no.

Returning to the immediate issue, I'm aware of the existence of a Left Fringe. (For now the "Fringe" and "conspiracy-minded folks" can be taken as synonymous for reasons which should be quite obvious.) We've discussed it here. I have, however, capably demonstrated on numerous occasion that there's a special relationship between the Fringe and the right.

To add yet another example to my list, note that President Trump promoted a conspiracy fantasy about the Clintons killing David Epstein. By contrast I've seen far fewer instances of folks suggesting something similar about Trump -- despite, when you think about it, the fact that Trump is in a better position to pull such a thing off than are the Clintons. Further, those suggestions were not made by, you know, the President of the United States -- a mainstream figure if ever there was one.

Here are some supporting links.

https://www.wired.com/story/epstein-didnt-kill-himself-conspiracy/

https://www.vox.com/2019/8/10/20800195/clintonbodycount-conspiracy-theory-jeffrey-epstein

The closest thing that's even close to that involved something said by NYC Mayor deBlasio:

https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2019/10/31/de-blasio-something-doesnt-fit-about-jeffrey-epsteins-death-1226158

and that stuff (while hilariously awful) isn't in the same league.

*shrugs* Spreading bunk is easy, just takes a line or two. Debunking is harder.

-An Anonymous Nerd

3/23/2020 02:00:09 pm

Your reply aptly demonstrates that there is a left fringe. No other comment necessary.

I miss Ted koppel

3/23/2020 04:47:32 pm

One can find as many questionable claims and muckraking on CNN and MSNBC as on Fox news. Large left-leaning newspapers have had to retract or revise comments made about Trump and others on the right on multiple occasions. There is no need to look to obscure fringe left-wing sources to find irresponsible reporting or editorializing. It is right there in sources that most viewers would think of as mainstream news sources. It is an argument in which the pot and kettle are arguing which is the blackest with each party having a vested interest in being less black.

There were occasions when Air America made Rush Limbaugh look like a Rhodes scholar. That's tough to do.

Wu Who

3/25/2020 08:18:50 pm

Even Slate magazine has criticized the tendency by some in the leftist media to over zealously slam Trump's efforts to combat the coronavirus while giving China a pass or even praising China. See, "China is not the hero of the pandemic".

3/26/2020 07:51:14 am

[One can find as many questionable claims and muckraking on CNN and MSNBC as on Fox news.]

Cute talking point, but no -- false equivalency is a most-excellent tactic though. Back when I was trying to catalogue this stuff I gave all three a whirl and it was depressing as Hell. Fox News is in a category by itself and it's made them a lot of money and put them at the forefront of a political movement that has exploited existing elements within the Conservative movement.

Oh well.

-An Anonymous Nerd

3/26/2020 12:36:57 pm

[Your reply aptly demonstrates that there is a left fringe. No other comment necessary. ]

Incorrect because I never claimed there not to be.

You recognize this, of course, you're just trolling -- a tactic Conservatives have mastered, online and off.

-An Anonymous Nerd

4/2/2020 02:40:26 pm

[Even Slate magazine has criticized the tendency by some in the leftist media to over zealously slam Trump's efforts to combat the coronavirus while giving China a pass or even praising China. See, "China is not the hero of the pandemic". ]

Sorry to be late in checking this but thanks for that reference. Here's the link for anyone who wants to follow it.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/china-coronavirus-blame-victory-propaganda-trump.html

I actually didn't realize that anyone, Left, Right, technocrat, or anybody in between, had found anything to praise about China's response. But Slate actually provided quotes, links, etc. Wow. Hopefully those folks are smart on other issues because on this issue, they're moronic.

I find China's response to be horrid, myself, and have a hard time fathoming anyone who could find it otherwise. They pretended it didn't exist then abruptly turned it into an excuse to oppress their people (something they really need to excuse to do - they do it routinely anyway), then spread conspiracy fantasies about it. The only reason they eventually flattened their curve is that decades of experience at oppression finally paid off, essentially by accident.

That's like praising China as a climate leader for that time a couple of years ago where they used the frightening machinery of their State against polluters for a little bit before going back to dissidents.

Thanks for the reference, sorry it took me so long to check it out!

-An Anonymous Nerd

3/26/2020 11:02:35 pm

Anonymous Nerd:

I thought that your spiel here sounded a bit familiar. After my fourth glass of chard it all came back to me. Some time ago you went on off on some sort of weird criticism of anthropology. If I recall it was largely based on you relaying an anecdote where someone allegedly told you something that someone else told them at an anthropology conference. You got more than a bit agitated when I tried to drill down on it.

I now better understand why you would be so hellbent on playing the deflection and move the goalposts (both of them) game in reaction to someone engaging in a very simple and straightforward effort to drill down on another example of second hand anecdotal information to assess its veracity and relative merit in the here and now. Another demonstrated lack of objectivity and lack of the ability to focus on a particular issue because you are pushing an agenda.

Another nice try but no cigar. And no, I won't revisit that original topic, and no I won't waste any more time on this topic, but yes i will open another bottle of chard.

Don't quit your day job....

3/27/2020 10:38:00 am

"Doc" Rock:

Again, you made an unsupportable statement. I corrected it. Anything else you say at this point is mere deflection disguised as accusing me of deflection. It's a time-honored fringe tactic, sadly. It works, which is also sad.

I most-definitely remember that conversation though you are, I assume deliberately, exaggerating and mis-characterizing it. For example my basis wasn't just the odd anecdote I encountered but also from another, odd and disturbing, anecdote from Coe's "Breaking the Maya Code."

I actually respect Anthropology but that doesn't mean I'm going to give credence to everything you say because you claim to be in it, especially when we're talking about stuff that isn't within that field. It's not a difficult concept.

-An Anonymous Nerd

3/27/2020 01:07:11 pm

Hi Doc -

I do not know if you have ever hit poisonous plants at any site you've dug, or know what a danger they present to crews. I am certain that Andy White has no idea of the hazard. Would you read him the riot act about crew safety?

4/1/2020 10:20:26 am

And, yet more.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/social-distancing-culture/609019/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

[At the driving range, while Frost and his like-minded friends slathered on hand sanitizer and kept six feet apart, the white-haired Republicans seemed to delight in breaking the new rules. They made a show of shaking hands, and complained loudly about the “stupid hoax” being propagated by virus alarmists. When their tee times were up, they piled defiantly into golf carts, shoulder to shoulder, and sped off toward the first hole. ]

*shrugs*

-An Anonymous Nerd