New Narragansett Stone Hoax Claim and Greg Little's Attack on My Coverage of Giant Skeletons6/29/2014 I’m taking Sunday off, so today’s post is going up a few hours early. I have two topics: a surprising admission from the self-described hoaxer of the Narragansett Rune Stone and Dr. Greg Little’s unusual attack on me for attempting to investigate stories of giant skeletons. Narragansett Rune Stone Hoax Claim As many of you already know, a Rhode Island newspaper just reported that a Providence man named Everett Brown claims that he carved the infamous runic inscription on the Narragansett Rune Stone in 1964 using a chisel. Brown, who is now 63, told the Independent that he used a runic alphabet from a library book to fake the carving. “I was trying to carve ‘Skraelings aft,’” Brown said. “Skraelings is what the Vikings used to call the Indians. […] If you’ve seen the picture, it’s pretty terrible as far as runes go.” Brown said he had not come forward earlier because he does not read newspapers or watch television, so he had no idea that his graffiti had become famous. He told the paper that it was “mind-boggling” to him that the stone was not only the subject of so much speculation but that the H2 channel devoted an episode of America Unearthed to the rock. In that episode show host Scott Wolter claimed that the Knights Templar had carved the inscription in the 1300s. “This stone is one of the very few artifacts that proves the Templars came to America,” Wolter claimed in the episode. If Brown’s story is proved true, it would be a major embarrassment to Wolter, who claims that his “new science” of archaeopetrography is able to accurately date stone inscriptions. Greg Little Attacks Me Dr. Greg Little is a psychologist and a familiar figure to listeners of Coast to Coast A.M. He’s an advocate of Edgar Cayce’s Atlantis prophecies and has tried looking for Atlantis where Cayce thought it would be, despite Cayce’s rather obvious borrowings from Theosophy and Dweller on Two Planets to construct his fantasy. That’s neither here nor there since Little has attempted to debunk me in an article attributed to AP Magazine (Alternative Press, not Associated Press) for doubting that there is a Smithsonian cover-up of Bible giants because he and Andrew Collins worked together on a new book about giant skeletons. My blog posts on the subject, made a year ago, must be threatening to his book sales. One of the skeptics, Jason Colavito, related that the giant reports came from misidentified mastodon/mammoth bones to outright hoaxes. However, Colavito didn't cite a single example of a hoax or a giant skeleton found in America that turned out to be a mastodon or mammoth. I know that’s not true. I mean, it may be true of any one given blog post, but over the last three years I’ve talked more than once of the bones of a “giant” found near my home in Albany (in Claverack in Columbia County) in 1705. Scientists later examined and determined them to be that of a mastodon—in fact, the very first mastodon remains ever uncovered. The governor of Massachusetts, Joseph Dudley, wrote to the Rev. Cotton Mather when he saw just one tooth from the assemblage of bones in 1706 that he was “perfectly of opinion that the tooth will agree only to a human body, for whom the flood only could prepare a funeral; and, without doubt, he waded as long as he could keep his head above the clouds, but must, at length, be confounded with all other creatures.” Cotton Mather in 1712 agreed that the bones had to be those of a pre-Flood giant. Although not from the United States, I have also discussed the discovery of “giant” bones in the Canton of Lucerne in Switzerland in 1577 which were heralded as those of a Bible giant until an anatomist recognized them as those of an elephant in 1706. We can add more: In 1613, the bones of a Germanic chief named Teutobocchus were discovered near Chaumont in France. These “giant” bones were determined by M. de Blainville in 1832 to be those of an elephant. St. Christopher’s tooth, on display for centuries in the city of Valence, is the tooth of a fossil elephant. (Oh, and St. Christopher never existed, either!) In 1789, the canons of St. Vincent declared an elephant femur the arm bone of Vincent. These stories and more can be found in my Library in the section on the Fossil Origins of Myths and Legends. How can we not believe that American colonists and settlers weren’t just as liable to mistake mammoth bones for giant bones? Adrienne Mayor has collected reports from the continental United States of such “fossil legends” in her book Fossil Legends of the First Americans. Little, however, doesn’t address this but instead insists that skeptics (no longer just me but clearly meant to refer to me, the only one named) can’t stand that there used to be tall people—something I have never denied: However, the fact is that a substantial proportion of the old reports of large or "giant" skeletons were written factually and are backed up by the archaeological evidence. At the same time, it became clear that modern archaeologists and some skeptical bloggers essentially loathe this fact so much that they go to great lengths to execrate those who take the topic seriously. (emphasis in original) Regular readers will remember (and you can see below) that I have shared more than once Spanish reports about unusually tall Native Americans, as well as evidence that individuals (though not whole populations) occasionally reached seven or eight feet in height, just as tall people do today. Unless one wishes to deny the existence of the NBA, it would foolish to say otherwise. Native Americans were among the tallest ancient peoples because they had the best diets on earth at the time, full of nutrients that their stunted counterparts in Europe and Asia lacked due to the effects of overreliance on a limited range of crops. The bones of Native American “giants” would be more likely to survive because they were (a) larger and more likely to fossilize and (b) apparently treated as special by ancient populations and given more careful burial. Little, however, doesn’t believe that ancient people gave preferential treatment to some skeletons. He assumes that skeletons were buried and survive in proportion to their prevalence in life. Therefore, he runs a “statistical analysis” of Smithsonian excavation reports to conclude that “giant” skeletons—here defined as anyone over 6 foot 6 inches—are overrepresented to the point that there must have been a giant race. Using nineteenth century reports, Little determined that the 17 “giant” skeletons uncovered were a statistical anomaly that should represent all the natural-born giants of a population of 2.5 million humans using modern statistical height distribution curves. Here’s where it gets confusing. Last year, I speculated (but did not insist) that one particular report about an oversized skeleton found in 1889 in a waterlogged mound called Mound 12 in Tennessee might be due to the effects of freezing and thawing of saturated bones, which can cause bones to expand in size as ice crystals push the lattice of bone apart. Eventually, this causes the bones to shatter, but before this, they appear longer than they did in life. Little misunderstands this and attacks me in confused rage: “Modern paleopathology texts and sources relate that buried bones that freeze can shatter and most buried bones actually lose mass - they get smaller. In addition, not one report has surfaced where a mastodon/mammoth bone was found in an American mound and said to be human” (emphasis in original). Little confuses mass with length, as though the two different meanings of “size” are interchangeable. Note, too, that Little switches here to specifying “mound” burials—something I have never claimed contained mastodon or mammoth bones. The bait and switch is designed to confuse the issue, just like the gradual scaling down of “giant” skeletons from 30 feet or 10 feet in early reports to his preferred measurement of 6 foot 6 inches to 8 feet. (At one point he even claims archaeologists classify skeletons of 5 foot 10 as “giant”!) My grandfather, who met the 6’6” standard in his youth, would therefore have been a “giant” under Little’s definition. We don’t seem to be talking about the same kinds of giants. Those six-foot-six “giants” are certainly not the specimens that Pausanias, Giovanni Boccaccio, Peter Martyr, Cotton Mather, and other authorities spoke of. It is the type described by the latter—the 10 to 30 foot tall “giants”—that I said were likely to be mistaken mammoth and mastodon bones, something first proposed by Georges Cuvier in 1806 and hardly unique to me. Adrienne Mayor is the most famous proponent of the idea. As you can see from this excerpt from last year’s blog post, I addressed most of Little’s new concerns in the very post he criticizes, and I explained the limitations of my analysis of Mound 12 as well as its tentative nature. It is not, as Little implies, a wholesale dismissal of “giants”: Sadly, there is not enough information to draw firm conclusions. The Victorians, for example, were not aware of modern paleopathology, which has studied how bones change in various environments. The Smithsonian researchers noted that the mounds in question, being on a low-lying island in a river, were heavily saturated with water. Standard texts on paleopathology state that the repeated freezing and thawing of the water “will produce expansion by ice crystal formation.” This can make the bones appear larger, until such time as the ice crystal formation process results in the bones shattering. The Smithsonian report that the bones were “very soft” implies that they were in the thawing phase (obviously, they were not frozen during the warm-weather excavation) and had already lost a great deal of their integrity due to the gradual expansion of the bone structure due to such ice crystal action. What was Little saying about me denying the existence of seven foot tall people? It’s telling that he doesn’t bother to cite my specific blog post or to link to it. He doesn’t want his readers to see for themselves that I was much more careful in my analysis than his cartoon version implies. Little then accuses skeptics, by which he means me since I am the only one discussed, of having “deep psychological issues”: There are deep psychological issues at work in all of this, but I suspect that the skeptics are not seeking the truth. In short, it seems they don’t and won’t care about the truth. […] I also see that American archaeology resents all outsiders, resists all beliefs that go against their beliefs, and they utilize skeptics as a sort of police force to silence critics and others. From a psychological standpoint, they are doing battle with their own shadow. It is a battle that can't be won. That truth? That a race of 8-foot-tall Atlanteans colonized America and worshiped the constellation Cygnus as the gate to the afterlife. You know, facts!
I’m not sure I quite understand, though, how my year-ago blog post is “silencing” Little, who in the interim has written a book on the subject and published this very article. I should be so lucky to be “silenced” that way. Greg Little wants to intentionally confuse my work and conflate different explanations for different claims as some universal explanation for all giants, and he wants to collapse all the different definitions of “giant” into his own preferred version—humans between six and eight feet tall; i.e., basketball players. In fact, he explicitly denies the existence of larger giants, which is why he can therefore ridicule explanations for such giants that attribute them to mastodons and mammoths: Large giants simply don’t exist, and his preferred “giants” aren’t big enough for mastodons to be mistaken for them. It’s dishonest, almost ridiculously so. The only justification I can see for this is that whatever I wrote must have been so reasonable and made so much sense that it threatened to undermine Little’s profitable line of speculation.
74 Comments
Scott Hamilton
6/28/2014 03:30:59 pm
I've got to admit, I'm morbidly interested in why Little/Collins only believe in giants less than eight feet tall. It seems like most people making claims for prehistoric giants believe they were at least 15 feet tall. Is this a schism in the fringe history community?
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Only Me
6/28/2014 05:31:10 pm
If Little wants to deny the existence of giants larger than eight feet, then how does he explain the existence of the following individuals:
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666
6/28/2014 08:43:37 pm
Giants must have existed, because it says so in the Bible as well
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Only Me
6/28/2014 10:32:15 pm
Troll harder.
666
6/29/2014 12:50:35 am
Lots of paranormal and supernatural material
Only Me
6/29/2014 01:09:42 am
That was it? Was that your A-game? Why do you persist in targeting me, and others, for your boorish and insulting comments if you're not even going to put forth an effort? Son, I am disappoint.
Gregor
6/29/2014 01:13:38 am
Just as fair notice, I'm honestly not trying to "troll" you.
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Only Me
6/29/2014 02:31:52 am
I could agree with your hypothetical argument, except for the fact that most of the claims tying the Smithsonian to the disappearance of "giant skeletons" almost always describe the skeletons as human. If giants were a distinct species, I would think they'd be described as humanoid or human-like. The claims suggest that these giants were in sufficient number to be seen, as Jason pointed out, a viable race.
Shane Sullivan
6/29/2014 06:07:16 am
That's the beauty of the giants' culture, Only Me; they worked, expressed themselves, fought, worshiped, disposed of their refuse, and even looked exactly the same as humans did, only they were slightly taller on average. Also, they used tools that were the same size as our tools. So, when you find a regular-sized chisel or spear head, you may think you've found human remnants, but it was really made by giants.
666
6/29/2014 08:04:04 am
>>>My next question would be, "Where's the *other* evidence?" <<< 6/29/2014 01:38:52 am
As I understand it, 8 feet isn't a hard and fast limit. Instead, he states that 8 feet is the upper limit of skeleton size he feels credible reports prove existed. He does not believe that any of the "evidence" for 9 foot and up skeletons is credible, for example, but admits the possibility such beings might have existed.
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4/2/2017 11:08:45 am
There's many giant bones hidden in Smithsonian institute ,Its hidden in basements of storage area's and some even destroyed some because there is so many bones of giants ,they don't want us to know about massive bones with double sets of teeth..On line there are thousands of giant bones still in there graves shown that were 12' to 30 ft tall .
Gregor
6/28/2014 11:18:14 pm
"Greg Little Attacks Me", third line: "That's neither he nor their" --> "here nor there"
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Greg Little
6/29/2014 12:50:12 pm
First, I like reading Jason's blogs and agree with a lot of what he writes, and it states so in the book. I do take issue with some specific statements made by skeptics, archaeologists, and proponents. Everything I have written on the topics mentioned by Jason in his above blog essentially makes no one happy. Skeptics deride those who want to look into such things without preconceived notions and proponents are not pleased when their beliefs aren't supported. I have written and repeatedly stated that we have never found anything in our 25+ week-long trips into the Bahamas and elsewhere that was linked to Atlantis. I have also written and stated that I don't know if Atlantis existed. (I am fine with not knowing and simply looking to see what might be there.) I paid for all of our research and no one else nor any organization funded any of it. It was fun and still is... Mentioning Atlantis or Cayce is a ploy similar to asserting that Jason is a writer making money off the Ancient Aliens phenomenon, UFOs, and by being a follower of the Cthulhu cult. It is all irrelevant to the specific issue and highly misleading. It is a way to divert attention from reality and very few people can or will see the underlying psychological issues swirling around. The book goes into many skeptical statements made by several online skeptics as well as quite a few archaeologists. This particular article mentioned some of Jason's assertions. Others will follow. The examples are cited in the book for those who have a genuine interest in the topic—and there are lots of them. Neither believers who say that "all of the old reports are real" nor believers who say "none of the old reports are real" have a genuine interest. I don't expect skeptics to buy it, read it, or even care. And not many proponents will like it, either. But a substantial number of people want to see a real evaluation of the skeletons' issue.
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EP
6/29/2014 01:01:23 pm
seem what?
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Mark L
6/30/2014 03:07:08 am
So your research is just on fairly tall people? That someone called a 5'10" skeleton a "giant" seems an incredibly pointless bit of information to base a book around.
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EP
6/30/2014 04:26:30 am
I say they WERE giants but they also suffered from dwarfism. Think about it, man...
Greg Little
6/29/2014 01:07:22 pm
to be a driving force underlying this.
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6/29/2014 02:39:27 pm
I love that you managed to use your comments to promote your book, Greg, while not actually addressing the substance of my criticisms in any substantive way, particularly the fact that you conflate my arguments about megafauna bones mistaken for 10-30 ft. giants with your preferred definition, humans within the observed range of human height, which I have never denied existed.
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Greg Little
6/30/2014 12:54:09 am
Thanks. 1) Yes, of course my comments are partly a promotion of the book, but realistically not many who go to skeptical websites ever order or read such books. But you have a lot of visitors on the other side who check your website. And you are certainly aware of that—and should be aware of it. My view is that wide-sweeping, flat denials and simplistic explanations essentially alienate people. If the object is to inform people, a different approach might be better... Sometimes you do take what I mean by the better approach. But it your blog.
666
6/30/2014 01:35:22 am
>>>irrelevant
EP
6/30/2014 04:40:13 am
"There is an underlying purpose when only a small part of a person's background is mentioned. In most cases, defining a person by one aspect of their personality or by one aspect of their life only gives a distorted picture of the person. Picking and choosing one characteristic of someone to describe them seldom gives a real picture."
Greg Little
6/29/2014 01:08:51 pm
EP: The comment box apparently only allows so many characters, so what I wrote was cut off.
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666
6/29/2014 01:43:22 pm
Was this a Race of Giants, or past select individuals like Robert Wadlow who suffered from an abnormality due to hyperplasia of the pituitary gland, that resulted in an abnormally high level of human growth hormone.
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666
6/30/2014 12:19:47 am
http://tedxshelburnefalls.wordpress.com/2012/12/14/jim-vieiras-talk-removed-from-internet/
BigMike
7/2/2014 05:40:56 pm
"It's irrelevant to this. There is an underlying purpose when only a small part of a person's background is mentioned. In most cases, defining a person by one aspect of their personality or by one aspect of their life only gives a distorted picture of the person. Picking and choosing one characteristic of someone to describe them seldom gives a real picture. If I said, "Joe Blow is obese but strangely says he can tell us the truth about lawn care," what is the purpose of describing him as obese? Why not just focus on what he says?"
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666
6/29/2014 01:11:45 pm
>>>death beliefs held by America's Mound Building cultures and involve Cygnus, Orion, and the Milky Way<<<
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666
6/29/2014 01:29:13 pm
Greg Little
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.
6/29/2014 06:57:16 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Giants
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666
6/29/2014 07:14:33 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Giants
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.
6/30/2014 02:20:58 pm
TripleSix, if you became global dictator for life and bannish'd
An Over-Educated Grunt
6/30/2014 02:09:19 am
What I find interesting about this is the conflation of mass and volume. We know from research over the last thirty years that freeze-thaw cycles in concrete cause exactly the behavior described - expansion under freezing, up to the cracking point. While bone is more porous than concrete, especially after the marrow decays, both are brittle materials with lower shear than compressive strengths, so mechanically the behavior is comparable, and water's behavior is pretty much universal across that freeze-thaw line. Each freeze-thaw cycle increases porosity and makes water infiltration easier, so you wind up with this accelerating process. I suspect that there's a research project buried in there to find out how many freeze-thaw cycles it takes to shatter bone, but there are easier ways to date most sites, and that's no longer in my playground.
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JJ
6/30/2014 02:19:19 pm
Jason, have you worked at researching the people who said they saw the Narragansett stone with runes on it prior to the date this man said he made them? If so, what or how does this compare to his story?
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666
6/30/2014 07:20:30 pm
>>>people who said they saw the Narragansett stone with runes on it prior to the date this man said he made them<<<<
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666
6/30/2014 07:52:37 pm
Rhode Island Historical Society collections, Vol. XV, January, 1922, No. 1
666
6/30/2014 08:05:32 pm
Rhode Island Historical Society Collections, Vol. XIII, January, 1920, No. 1
Historian
7/7/2014 12:35:21 am
He was probably referring to the Pojac Point residents that saw it before 1964. 90 year old Jane Goodhue claims she saw the inscription in 1952, for example. The family that owned the family from 1840 to late 1930's indicated there was "no oral or written history" of the rock within his family, and he first saw the stone in 1990. 7/5/2014 10:09:33 am
Editors,
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Lynn Brant
7/1/2014 01:29:52 am
The above citation is an interesting read, but it is about the Mt Hope rock and the only other it mentions specifically is the Dighton stone. Not only is this not evidence that what we call The Narragansett stone was there in 1920, the absence of a mention suggests that it was not there. The testimony of one man that he carved the NRS has to be taken with a grain of salt. But then I have a hard time thinking of a motive for a ruse, and he doesn't seem to be looking for attention. If he were selling a book or a TV program, I would be more suspicious.
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666
7/1/2014 02:59:05 am
Come on. People do things like that for fun. Engravings by ordinary folks on stones and on walls are found everywhere.
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666
7/1/2014 03:01:51 am
It's called Graffiti
Shane Sullivan
7/1/2014 06:26:27 am
I think he was referring to Everett Brown's motivation for falsely claiming to have carved the stone, not his motivation for carving it.
Historian
7/7/2014 12:47:02 am
The geological report proved the stone was on dry land in 1939 and earlier. The 1975 aerial indicates it was in the intertidal zone by that date. The oldest living member of the Welling family, which owned the entire property that would become the Pojac Point neighborhood(from 1840-late 1930's) stated : no oral or written history of this rock in Welling family.
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Historian
7/7/2014 01:01:02 am
Delabarre found the Mark Rock petroglyph site, largest in the region, when the RIHS team of Bartlett and Webb stood upon it and missed the carvings all together in the 1840's!! So absence of a mention is not proof the stone with inscription was not there. However, we know the Narragansett stone was on dry land in 1939 and prior, and there is no oral or written mention of an inscription within the Welling family, who owned the property where the stone was located. Ownership was from 1840-late 1930's. No mention of any inscription. Jane Goodhue claims to have seen the inscription when she and her late husband moved to Pojac Point in 1952. At the same time, Mr. Brown offers the most parsimonious translation of the stone. Installation of the stone is on hold while all this plays out.
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Historian
7/7/2014 01:09:54 am
I should add to my comments here, that although the 1939 aerial indicates the stone was on dry land at that point, changing shoreline was compared through aerials from 1939-2011, it is possible the stone was buried when it was located landward. Erosion placed it in the intertidal zone until eventually it was under water a majority of a tidal cycle. But the 1939 aerial only shows where it would be, it can't be seen in that photo due to foliage. But if visible, no mention of an inscription after 1840, when this was a Welling family property and farm.
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Historian
7/7/2014 01:31:35 am
Wolter believes his weathering study of the NRS and the runes used prove Brown is a "liar". But Wolter's weathering studies are not simply embraced by other geologists at all. And Wolter is not an historian, either. Or a runologist. He has a B.S.in Geology. Period. Because he cannot get his weak theories through peer review, he has no choice but to lash out at the peer review process as inherently unfair to bold new ideas. No, it is inherently unfair to weakly developed arguments like blanket acceptance of a secret biological bloodline of Jesus Christ. Let's face it. Mr. Brown is a serious threat to Wolter's posturing as possessing an unassailable scientific result. Nope, he does not, and I think his game is very transparent.
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SD
7/3/2014 12:48:48 am
For all you "wannabes" that hope this guy is right, you will be sorely disappointed as I have at the moment 8 witnesses that are going to sign a letter stating they have witnessed this inscription before 1964, when Mr. Brown says he carved it! Game Over!
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Paula
7/3/2014 02:29:46 am
SD, when someone makes a claim, I personally want to look into what they are saying. That does not make me a "wannabe". Share your information rather than name calling will be more helpful. This is not a game fyi.
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EP
7/4/2014 07:49:54 pm
I too consider letter signatures incontrovertible archeological proof.
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Historian
7/7/2014 01:18:21 am
If earlier witnesses have a photo or photos pre 1964, there's is proof that Brown is mistaken. If Brown has photos showing him working on inscription, there's his proof of his truthfulness. Verbal testimony alone is not the same as "proof", one way or another, IMHO. Also, Brown cannot be called a "liar" based on Wolter's weathering studies of the NRS, because those weathering studies are not in a peer reviewed venue where other geologists can weigh in. Further, higher credentialed geologists disagree with Wolter's weathering studies of the KRS, so his "science trumps verbal testimony" argument is disingenuous at best! Therefore, I am very dubious of the claim that weathering studies of the NRS disprove Brown. Let other geologists confirm Wolter's results. Just once let that happen!!
EP
7/7/2014 08:15:27 am
There are different ways in which Brown could be mistaken, by the way. He could be mistaken (or even deliberately lying for some reason) about the year he did it.
Historian
7/7/2014 12:39:55 am
The oldest living member of the Welling Family, who owned the entirety of Pojac Point property from 1840-late 1930's has stated there was "no written or oral history" of this rock in the family. Considering the fact that the stone was on land, and not yet in the water in 1939 and earlier, that statement may be telling. It may indicate the stone was not carved upon until it was on the beach sometime after 1939.
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Historian
7/7/2014 02:05:11 am
Declaring "game over" is just a "force-feed" conclusion. By no means is the game over. Investigations don't work this way. Verbal testimony vs. verbal testimony doesn't cut it at all. If you WANT the "game"(?) to be over, come up with forensic evidence in the way of photos. The North Kingstown Town Historian is doing his own research, and does not consider the matter to be a game, or to be "over". He also knows Everett Brown personally. SD, do you know Brown personally? We'll see where it all leads, hopefully to proof, though I seriously doubt that will happen. But saying "game over" is like a certain someone telling Brown to "shut his mouth now". It isn't going to go down that way, Norse and Icelandic enthusiasts notwithstanding.
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Duke of URL
7/6/2014 08:33:36 am
[NOTE: "Reply" button seem to do nothing.
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2/7/2015 03:25:24 am
As the journalist who originally broke the story of Everett Brown and the carving of the Narragansett Rune Stone in the 1960s, I have little reason to doubt the authenticity of Mr. Brown's story. He was unequivocal about what he carved and why, and surely "Skraylings" is far more likely to come out of a 13-year-old boy's mind than a Norse navigator's when choosing something to carve on a random rock. "Historian's" comments, I believe, reveal some of the errors of trying to prove a negative. The extraordinary claim, in this case, is that the stone was carved before 1964. That's what must be proved in light of Mr. Brown's parsimonious claim.
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Historian
2/7/2015 08:44:24 am
And BTW, I would love to see Brown proven true if he is indeed telling the truth. But, what do I tell someone when they say to me "Brown says the hook of the hooked X was a slip of the chisel". The most controversial character on the stone, on all the Hooked X stones, and it's the result of an accident? That's one version, spoken by Brown, and heard with my own ears. We all know his story changed. And I have no problem with understanding how tiny details can be forgotten after 50 years. But the hooked X on the stone is a coincidence, not intentional even, but accidental? That was one of the very weakest links in Brown's account. And he changed it! But, if that's the final version, that is one heck of a coincidence, an accidental hooked X.
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Historian
2/7/2015 10:08:09 am
"The extraordinary claim, in this case, is that the stone was carved before 1964. That's what must be proved in light of Mr. Brown's parsimonious claim."
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Historian
2/7/2015 07:54:00 am
As the historian who first revealed the existence of the Narragansett Stone to the world beyond Pojac Point in 1985, I had a very personal, but not at all biased, interest in the mystery involved with this inscription. I spoke to Brown several times. I defended Brown to the principals involved with this stone, and listened to the ranting and raving and "tell Brown to shut his mouth!" that was thrown back in my face. Nobody defended the guy's right to be heard more then I did. Nobody. And I could have just kept my mouth shut. Something about snake oil salesmen trying to revise history to their overly imaginative liking goes up my butt sideways. I guess.
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Historian
2/7/2015 08:00:08 am
Mr. Spottswood, my sincere apologies for misspelling your name in the above comment. I was actually spelling it correctly, but as owners of iPads know, the iPad often types what the iPad wants to type. My sincere apologies, Mr. Spottswood. Obviously, if "edit" were permitted here, which would be a huge help, I could have just corrected it.
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Historian
2/7/2015 08:19:40 am
Dang iPad spelling, lol. I'll make my last thought in my initial comment clearer: I believe, rightly or wrongly, that Mr. Spottswood WANTS Brown's story to be the truth. On both sides of a certain divide, I see people who want this thing to be Middle Ages European, and that's that, "stay out of my way". And I do believe there are folks on the other side of that divide who decided beforehand that the Narragansett Stone CANNOT be Middle Ages European, and that's that, "stay out of my way". Because Mr. Spottswood backs Brown to this extent, when Brown has never produced the photographic record needed to prove his case, I am reluctant to consider Mr. Spottswood truly objective here. I am sorry if that offends, but that's the impression I get. Personally, I have no agenda where answers are concerned. I did find myself impressed by Brown at the time,,but I will not throw out contradictory compelling testimony simply because I WANT one theory or another to be true. Some people really want this to be very, very old. Some people want this to be very far from very, very old.
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Historian
2/7/2015 09:16:42 am
Mr. Spottswood, if any light can be shed, any info on the mysterious retired police officer who was behind Brown coming fwd., did all the contact work for Brown, reported all online comments and theories back to Brown, and in general stayed in the background just saying "talk to Brown" whenever anyone asked. "Who are you and what is your interest in this"?, well if any light can be shed on his motive, that might help understand the entire Brown chapter. Brown went about things the wrong way, IMO. But he talked casually about his involvement with the stone for some time before coming fwd. Odd thing to do if it was all just a tall tale. And if a tall tale, I would love to know the motive and who this other guy was promoting Brown to everyone. If Everett Brown carved the inscription, only he can prove it. Parsimonious alone will never carry the day. He just has not helped himself here.
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5/4/2016 01:59:57 am
While this story has turned a bit stale, there are some unsubstantiated comments I would like to address. "Historian," who is apparently uncomfortable revealing his actual identity, accuses me above of reporting what I want to be the truth in my tentative support of Mr. Brown's veracity. In addition he makes statements that seem to come from thin air, such as that regarding a retired police officer's supposed involvement.
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Historian
5/4/2016 07:39:18 am
Well, it has been awhile since Brown's claims first appeared, but it was a retired police officer, who knew Brown, who contacted several officers of the NEARA, and in order to promote Brown's claim. As far as my own beliefs, they go back and forth, actually. I suspect it is modern, post 1940. It was not located in the intertidal zone before 1940. Whether it was even above ground pre 1940 is unknown to the best of my knowledge at this time. The retired police officer sent emails to several Neara officers, including the RI research coordinator, urging all to interview Brown. He provided Brown's contact info, and the RI research coordinator interviewed Brown over the phone several times. I'm no fan of the more convoluted "Holy Grail and the Knights Templar" theory regarding the inscription, and I would honestly welcome proof from Brown if he could provide it. I and two of my colleagues published the first article on this feature at Pojac Point, and brought it to the world's attention in 1985. Some of my "early" photos are included in the display signage. My involvement, however, does not mean I favor theories that cannot be supported with facts, and which seem to be in the style of Da Vinci code nonsense.
Historian
5/4/2016 07:48:52 am
I should add, my biggest problem with Brown's story was his conflicting stories on how the mysterious X got on the stone. In one story, his chisel slipped and accidentally created that character. In another story, he chose that character deliberately as a substitute letter A because his father was in a hurry to leave, and it took less time to create it then using the same A character from the first line. So, accidentally created in one account, deliberately created in another account cast doubt on the story. Because they are two very different memories after all. That did indeed trouble me, as it troubled others as well.
Historian
5/4/2016 11:02:52 am
People are entirely free to come to their own conclusions. Interestingly, the final quote on the Narragansett Stone signage is by runic authority Henrik Williams. And that quote, which concludes the stone is well worth preserving and displaying, is taken from a study by Williams, based on a personal examination by him, in which he offers his own considered opinion that it was likely carved in the period 1890-1940. Williams did conclude that there was no reason to dismiss the memories of those families at Pojac Point who remembered seeing the inscription well before Brown claims to have found it. Investigators from the RIDEM concluded the exact same thing. That does not mean people cannot think otherwise or continue to support Brown 's claim. But Williams' offered reasons why, regardless if it were carved in Medievil times or modern times, that it was worthy of preservation and display. People being people, visitors by and large will be intrigued by the more exotic theories regarding it's origins. Because people simply visiting the display are unlikely to dig any deeper on their own. Certainly, if actual proof emerged, and if that proof supported a modern origin, be it between 1890-1940, or in the summer of 1963, it will not be swept under the rug very easily. I found Williams' arguments for a modern origin compelling, IMO. I also found Brown's translation the most compelling component of his own story, even as other aspects of his story might be seen as weakening his case. Namely, his inconsistent accounts at times.
Historian
5/4/2016 11:10:01 am
"Williams did conclude that there was no reason to dismiss the memories of those families at Pojac Point who remembered seeing the inscription well before Brown claims to have found it."
Historian
5/4/2016 11:28:52 am
BTW, we have the name of that retired police officer, but I see no good reason to publish it here. He certainly came across as a mystery. Several NEARA officers received emails from him, describing and supporting Brown's claim, and urging his email recipients to look into those claims. Yet, he himself would not answer any emails addressed to him. Ever. Regardless of who brought Brown's claims to light first, it was this retired police officer who contacted the principal Narragansett Stone researchers. It was this retired police officers who put those researchers in touch with Brown. So, certainly, I did not create this retired police officer out of thin air.
Historian
5/5/2016 05:03:28 pm
You may be interested in Dr. Williams' brief essay describing his examination of the stone, and the reasons behind his conclusion that the inscription likely dates 1890-1940. Williams saw no reason to doubt the witnesses who claimed to have seen the inscription in the 1950's, and, in one case, as early as 1947. It might be interesting to share your opinion of Brown's translation with him, perhaps.
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5/6/2016 02:22:34 am
With all due respect, Historian, may I suggest you are overthinking this on the basis of the available evidence? Pending further evidence, Mr. Brown's explanation is the most likely. This is not to say it's the truth. But at this point other explanations fall far short of the mark, especially when those who claim to have photographs, etc., of the inscriptions before the mid-1960s have failed to produce their alleged evidence. Please don't conflate unrelated testimony with my interview with Mr. Brown. If you wish to discuss this, please do so independently of my article.
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5/6/2016 02:26:36 am
Further, if you wish to approach credibility, may I suggest you use your real name and credentials?
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Historian
4/2/2017 01:38:21 pm
A little late getting back to you, Mr. Spottswood. Yeah, I do avoid using my real name due to threats of lawsuits twice from one of the principals. I just don't need that aggravation. My arguments really do not need my name to approach credibility. It isn't about my name, it's about the arguments advanced. As for credentials, I'm not a winner of the Pulitzer Prize in history, lol. I have an MA in Modern European History from URI, 1972. I have not come around to Brown's claims, nor have I rejected them outright. I do not know who carved the stone, or when. My 1985 photos were used in the display in Wickford because they were the oldest we had. The "other explainations" do not fall short of the mark as you claim. No more so then Brown, who has also failed to provide any real evidence for his claim. You just happen to support him because you find his translation parsimonious, and, as far as I can tell, that is your sole reason for supporting him. It is interesting I'll grant, but it is not proof, and should not be treated as if it were proof.
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Historian
4/2/2017 01:47:14 pm
BTW, you could have signed your name "Howdy Doody", and your arguments still would have stood as presented. Names have absolutely nothing to do with anything where the actual argumentation is concerned. Williams, on the other hand, is a recognized authority in runes. I am not. Nor, may I remind you, are you. So neither of our names can really lend credibility in that respect. We are simply presenting logical arguments. I understand your's, but I was also informed by someone who knows Brown that he has a reputation for story telling. He can present evidence to end the dispute just as the residents of Pojac Point can. So far, I don't believe either has. I too found Brown's translation parsimonious, but, alas, that just is not proof.
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Historian
4/7/2017 08:54:21 pm
Absolutely pointless comment on your part....
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Regine
7/20/2017 11:32:40 am
There were a lotta controversial speculations & sources 'bout the height of Vikas "Vicky" Uppal; hence, his height was unofficial because the Guinness World Records never measured this cool, sexy-faced, & quite handsome Indian which leaves 3 cases as unverified, contested, & disputed. :-0 Sadly, 10 years ago a failed brain tumor operation killed this India's tallest youth at a very young age. :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(
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AuthorI am an author and researcher focusing on pop culture, science, and history. Bylines: New Republic, Esquire, Slate, etc. There's more about me in the About Jason tab. Newsletters
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