New Paper Rebukes Claim That an Exploding Comet Destroyed Hopewell Culture

8/9/2023

Last year, researchers associated with the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis claimed that an exploding comet destroyed the Hopewell culture of ancient Ohio. At the time, I pointed out many of the reasons their claim did not pass the sniff test, notably because Hopewell culture persisted more than two centuries after the supposed impact. Now, a new paper in Nature confirms that the original claim is almost absurdly flawed:

Tankersley et al. claim a cosmic airburst over modern-day Cincinnati, Ohio in the 3rd or fourth century CE catalyzed the decline of Hopewell culture. This claim is extraordinary in the face of hundreds of archaeological investigations in the Middle Ohio River Valley (MORV) that have heretofore provided no evidence of a widespread cataclysm or “social decline” in need of explanation. Tankersley et al. misrepresent primary sources, conflate discrete archaeological contexts, improperly use chronological analyses, insufficiently describe methods, and inaccurately characterize the source of supposed extraterrestrial materials to support an incorrect conclusion. While charcoal and burned soils are found on virtually all excavated Middle Woodland archaeological sites in the region, these have prosaic explanations. Many of the burned “habitation surfaces” mentioned are actually prepared surfaces for ceremonial fires, not the result of a synchronous regional catastrophe. Radiocarbon dated samples from one context are mistakenly attributed to distinct and unrelated contexts. The chronological analysis does not support the notion of a single event spanning 15,000 km2. The composition of their supposed extraterrestrial materials is inconsistent with an origin in comet or asteroid events. In sum, there is no evidence to support the conclusion that a comet exploded over modern-day Cincinnati in the third or fourth century CE.

The whole paper is a great read and a decisive rebuke to the expansive but fantastical types of claims Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis researchers have proposed.

29 Comments

E.P. Grondine

8/9/2023 12:36:06 pm

Hi Jason -

Thanks for the heads up.

I am currently quite busy with both of the Holocene Start Impact Events, so Dr. Tankersley is on his own for dealing with this criticism of his work.

I never hit any Shawnee memories of this impact, just the normal events and migrations of the climate collapse of 536 CE. As I sit here this afternoon, I can not even remember Tankersley's original publication of it. His work at Sheridan cave was very good.

All in all, I'd rather be in Tuscany. Good luck with James Dean, but my guess is the "Theosophists" would be an easier dime for you.

Better off

8/9/2023 03:12:54 pm

You'd be better off getting a new head.

The chief of urbana

8/10/2023 10:02:58 am

There is no definitive evidence that the Shawnee occupied that area or even existed 1500 years ago. Maybe that is why.

E.P. Grondine

8/11/2023 10:53:48 am

Hello Chief -

You are 100% totally correct.

The people may be better called "Shawnee Ancestral", as the sites of the era under discussion are before the migration of the Algonquin stream which formed the contact era historical Shawnee people. That noted, Shawnee traditions are where you find the explanation for the paired ring and rectangle earthworks.

So, Shawnee traditions are where to look, or Cherokee traditions, as this was before the Bald Mountains impact and the Pisgah migration into that depopulated area. In any case, you're looking a a raw cost of $30,000 to go through the Newberry Library's collection of materials.

There are 7 major Yazoo sites with a short distance of my house in Vicksburg, Mississippi. The Archaeological Conservancy has just secured one of them, and three of them are owned by the National Park Service. (By the way, I have possession of a Yazoo sculpture that was found nearby.)

A little to the north of Vickaburg, in one of the poorest areas in the nation, is the site where DeSoto's men built their ships to return to Mexico.

Unlike Dr. Lepper, Dr. Tankersley's excavation techniques are immaculate, which is why he works teaching at U.O. Cincinnati.

While you're on the internet, be sure to read my collection of Native memories of the second of the Holocene Start Impact Events over on academia.

Paul

8/12/2023 12:20:25 am

Eddy, Eddy,
Why is it that when your buddy Dr T is googled, this pops up? Certainly sounds like immaculate credentials……

“ have contacted the Cherokee Nation, and have official word that Ken Tankersley is not a member of the tribe, and has NEVER been a member of the tribe. He has misrepresented himself. I have found many articles of which Tankersley has claimed to be a member of the Cherokee Nation, and of a few of those articles, he states he is a member of "Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma".

For years Ken has been going around making a false claim to being Cherokee, and lying claiming he was a member of he Cherokee Nation. He has been promoted as a "Cherokee expert" (he is no expert) and then, something happened... he suddenly claimed to be Shawnee and became a member of the fraudulent group who call themselves "Piqua Shawnee of Alabama". Yes, that same state that will recognize a group of turds as a "tribe". Worse, these turds will admit anyone into their groups.

Tankersley claims to descend from Moytoy, a mythical person who many claim changed his name to "Aaron Brock" The claim is Aaron's name was "Chief Arun", however, the Cherokee have never had a leader with this name, nor any name close to "Arun" and there are claims that Aaron Brock real name was "Red Bird".”

E.P. Grondine

8/12/2023 04:45:33 pm

Hi Paul -

What I said was that Tankersley's archaeological work was immaculate. As to his personal family history and what he was told, that is beyond my competency and desire to work on.

As for myself, I had a very vocal self proclaimed "wiccan" attack my Shawnee native ancestry. While I had had a DNA test done, I was reluctant to publicly share it due to the large African component shown in it. Turned out that my ancestor's Shawnee division had been stripped of personhood at law for helping a slave from Jamestown to escape in 1711.

So how much should I sue her for? Round dollar amounts will do: $10,00 or $1,000,000?

Or should I thank her for helping me to fill in the last missing pieces of my mother's distant family history?

I myself have good relations with both the Eastern and Absentee members and a good part of their leadership, although I have not seen them for a while. The last I heard, the Loyal were not respected by them and do not work with them., for very good reasons. My fellow Shawnee descendants have protected our main village site at Oldtown for forever by law,, and they are well outside OHS and Lepper's control.

What I can tell you based on that experience is that is is very difficult to work through the colonial records, particularly family records. When I first started my search, based on a conversation with my cousin and my uncle, I had no idea that Shawnee Oldtown ever existed, and was only aware of the nearby Monacans.

My Huron ancestry is well documented and well known.
I also enjoy meeting with mide.

I wish Dr. Tankersley the best of luck with his search.

E.P. Grondine

8/9/2023 02:07:53 pm

Tankersley's original paper:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-05758-y

But as I said, it is strange that to my knowledge no Shawnee memory of. this putative impact event survived. But then the same thing is true when working with known impacts such as Brenham.

Sorting out and dating destruction layers is very difficult when working with cultures of this type. Even sorting out normal cleaning from invasive destruction is very difficult.

There were known smaller impacts in the southwest US that are still not widely known nor thoroughly investigated yet: Bald Mountains, Key Marco, and Brenham. Their relevance is in gaining Congressional funding for detection systems.

I must say that Tankersley's work methods are first rate, as you can see by this paper of his. Much, much better than Lepper's, who misdates sites by a thousand years.

Paul

8/9/2023 07:22:36 pm

Eddy,
How have you not flushed yourself away over the years, you got nothin’ but shit.

E.P. Grondine

8/10/2023 09:07:00 am

Hi Paul -

Speaking about "shit", right now, 70% of the US population thinks that finding the next peace of "shit from space" headed our way well before it hits is NASA's highest priority.

Kent

8/10/2023 05:53:21 pm

"Speaking about "shit", right now, 70% of the US population thinks that finding the next peace of "shit from space" headed our way well before it hits is NASA's highest priority."

No one in the world, even people who can spell, thinks that you fake stroke fake Injun panhandler.

Paul

8/10/2023 08:22:40 pm

And that 60% of Americans who say nasa should track pha’s know about https://cneos.jpl.nasa.gov/?

And what does this survey re. nasa have to do with imaginary past events? Not a thing.

You still got nothing, only illusionary giants. Go put your ccr on the turntable and crank up the Victrola.

E,P, Grondine

8/12/2023 09:28:38 am

Hi Paul -

Re: illusory giants, here you go:
https://www.amazon.com/Ages-Giants-Cultural-History-Prehistoric/dp/0999501704

or:
http://www.spanishhill.com/p/susquehannocks.html

or better:
https://youtu.be/aBFlFRLnzk8
read the books cited there, which contain thoroughly documented excavation reports, and get back to me.

A discussion of X mt DNA and its distribution is well beyond the scope of a post to Jason's site. But an introduction to it may be seen here:
https://youtu.be/TbM4vHcRyz0

The issue at hand is "How often do we get hit by shit from space, and what is the appropriate level of NASA funding to deal with the hazard?'

Tankersle's excavation techniques are immaculate. That noted, his initial paper did not identify an epicenter for any impact blast. Looking through the surviving oral tradition materials would take about $30,000, and I myself have higher research priorities, unless someone should contract me to do it.

I have not spoken to anyone from JPL about NEO Surveyor funding, its progress, its launch vehicle, nor its launch date.

Jim

8/12/2023 03:21:38 pm

"Tankersle's excavation techniques are immaculate."

You should read this blogpost and get back to us.

https://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/new-paper-rebukes-claim-that-an-exploding-comet-destroyed-hopewell-culture

Kent

8/12/2023 03:26:04 pm

"Tankersle's excavation techniques are immaculate."

Translation: not all of his staff died from poison ivy.

"$30,000" Again with the panhandling?

"I have not spoken to anyone from JPL about NEO Surveyor funding, its progress, its launch vehicle, nor its launch date."

The easy explanation is that no one will take your calls, but the history is that you have been corrected right here on the project *name* and the launch date. The rest of the information is publicly available. A little less pompous ass and much less pretending to be plugged-in would go a long way.

___________

Curiously enough, Dr. Becker seems to be something of a fake Injun hunter.

Paul

8/12/2023 07:09:49 pm

Eddy,
All I got to say is that you have to f****** kidding! What the hell are you smoking? Mississippi would do well to rescind your medical dope card.

E.P. Grondine

8/13/2023 09:58:04 am

Hi Paul -

Over the years I have met both Cherokee and Osage in whom the height gene expresses. And had dinner with them. For that matter, when my book first came out I got a call in the middle of the night from an excited Conestoga (Andaste) descendant from Pennsylvania.

It is evident that the European fascination with tall Native Americans clearly persists. I suppose that it has to do with European racial assumptions about Native Americans. And Native remembrances of the Andaste are one of the excuses used to dismiss both their histories and land claims.

From my point of view, Andaste migrations are tied to both climate collapses and impact events. See:
https://youtu.be/bVFoE8pYKAc

Between my stroke damage and diabetes, marijuana is no fun.
I thoroughly approve of its medical use for certain conditions.

Kent

8/13/2023 05:39:39 pm

The fascination lies in pointing out your lying fake Injun lies. You never once took a photograph? Not much of a researcher, certainly not $30,000 worth though I notice you cut the amount from $40,000 on the Wikipedia Walam Okum or whatever discussion/talk page #2. Cutting prices is the first move of the past-her-prime whore. So you are minimally self-aware on a good day. But still a lying Sacajawea.

Paul

8/31/2023 05:14:12 pm

Hey Eddy,
Did you see this?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-41237-8

Better get back to beading those lighter coozies. Everything you been arguing just got flushed.

Jim

8/9/2023 04:18:14 pm

"But as I said, it is strange that to my knowledge no Shawnee memory of. this putative impact event survived."

Maybe those giant twenty foot tall Native Americans all had their heads in the clouds and didn't see it ?
Seriously, who can't member stuff that happened 2000 years ago, I recall a Roman soldier lopping off my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great granddaddy's head way back around that time.

E.P. Grondine

8/10/2023 08:50:24 am

Hi Jim -

You can take up "Adena" (Andaste) height with Dr. Marshall Becker. And more and more records and remains are being recovered from Hrdlicka's suppression of them

As far as oral traditions and their roles in pre-literate societies, I know this may sound strange to you, but you must remember that not all societies went through the Christian bible experience. Whatever was a threat to a society was often times remembered. The did not have television either. Threats to society were often remembered both as a form of entertainment around the campfire or by trained individuals in more formal settings.

Jim

8/10/2023 05:30:52 pm

"You can take up "Adena" (Andaste) height with Dr. Marshall Becker. "

I don't know Dr. Becker, can you set up a meet ? Or are you just passing the buck ?
Here is what Chief Mark Gould says about Becker:

“If you are able to perpetuate a lie because you have a PhD, I don’t think that’s fair.”

https://www.nj.com/cumberland/2012/04/lenni-lenape_lecture_in_bridge.html

The last time you showed me "evidence" of Giant Native Americans, your evidence showed the first European to make contact with them described the "Giant" as wearing a metal chain around his neck.
I am still waiting for your answer as to which tribes produced metal chains.
Any news on that front ?
Still waiting.

Jim

8/10/2023 06:18:24 pm

Also, as far as oral traditions go, hearsay passed down through hundreds of mouths through millennium of peoples who have gone through extreme social, religious and political upheavals for the last five hundred years will never be considered scientific or historical fact.
Are we to believe Whopper Wolter's stories of (pre Columbian) Native Americans taking ships all over the world to meet up with Indigenous Leaders worldwide ?
At best oral traditions can be used as a starting point to gain actual evidence of real occurrences.
See: The Ingstads and L'Anse aux Meadows.
It should be noted that the earliest known written version of the Sagas from which they got their starting point were written in the thirteen hundreds a scant 300 yrs from which the events took place. I have little faith that other copies of the Sagas weren't written down previous but were lost in the ensuing Centuries.

Your task should you choose to accept it is to show us bonafide scientific proof that hearsay can be accurate over a thousand years, bearing in mind that actual geological and archeological evidence readily proves your theories to be 100% wrong.

E.P. Grondine

8/13/2023 10:32:27 am

Hi Jim -

You will have to set up our own meeting with Dr. Becker. As a world ranked physical anthropologist he is quite busy.

You need tp understand that the Lenape in New Jersey are heavily involved in the casino business, and have been rewriting their national history to insure their casino rights. And the Andaste were not Lenape.

There is a site in southern Illinois (anna lynne?) that clearly shows the Lenape migration. I myself went to Anderson Indiana to check on Rafinesque' claims about the transmission of the Walum Olam. For $30,000 dollars I could track down the doctor involved.

There are excavators in the Andaste homelands who can tell you about their trade goods.

Jim

8/13/2023 03:50:53 pm

Cool, so, your evidence consists of "ask someone else" ?

How is it that via the fur trade the Susquehannock (Andaste) had close relations with the Dutch of New Netherland, the Swedes in New Sweden,as well as the English in Maryland, and yet no one mentioned they were giants other than the self aggrandizing slayer of giants English explorer John Smith who called them "gyant-like" warriors ?

" By 1661, Maryland colonists and the Susquehannock had expanded their peace treaty into a full alliance against the Haudenosaunee Confederacy. Fifty English colonists were assigned to the Susquehannock to guard their fort."

And how many have called into question Smiths penchant for extreme exaggeration ?

" He said that Smith's recounting of the story of Pocahontas had been progressively embellished, made up of "falsehoods of an effrontery seldom equaled in modern times".

" Smith told a similar story in True Travels (1630) of having been rescued by the intervention of a young girl after being captured in 1602 by Turks in Hungary. Karen Kupperman suggests that he "presented those remembered events from decades earlier" when telling the story of Pocahontas."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smith_(explorer)

This is your source ? This is your evidence ? SMH

Kent

8/10/2023 06:01:07 pm

"You can take up "Adena" (Andaste) height with Dr. Marshall Becker. And more and more records and remains are being recovered from Hrdlicka's suppression of them"

He's foisting you off on someone else to cover up his years of lies and who doesn't see the sexual component? There are no records, there are no remains.

Hrdlicka of course is one of the time traveling Jesuits from the Smithsonian.

E.P. Grondine

8/18/2023 01:22:04 pm

"Hrdlicka of course is one of the time traveling Jesuits from the Smithsonian."

No, he is well known as an eugenicist and nazi.
And I mean that literally, not figuratively

E.P. Grondine

8/13/2023 09:17:18 pm

"Hrdlicka of course is one of the time traveling Jesuits from the Smithsonian."

You may have noticed from my complete lack of response that I don't care what you write about me, nor for that matter our opinion on anything, but your bad mouthing of Jesuits is simply beyond the pale.

Hrdlicka was a eugenicist racist, and suppressed any and all physical remains he could get his hands on that would show Native Americans as anything more than an inferior race. Think Hitler and Nazis, and you'll be very close.

Kent

8/19/2023 11:15:11 am

Before you said he was "literally" a Nazi. Which is it, or will it cost $30,000 for you to explain what you said? By which I mean to explain that you lied, again, as you do habitually.

Eugenics doesn't bother me. It's good, it literally starts with "good", "eu-". It's like manure, it starts with "Ma" and it's newer.

Your heroes the Jesuits can suck my balls although I did enjoy the soothing voice and batshit crazy nonsense of Malachi Martin on the old Art Bell Show.

Doc Rock

9/3/2023 10:19:08 am

My understanding is that the Tankersley et al. paper was officially retracted by the journal a few days ago based on the critique. One of the authors agreed with the retraction. The others apparently declined to discuss the matter with the editorial staff.

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New Paper Rebukes Claim That an Exploding Comet Destroyed Hopewell Culture

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