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New Zealand Giant Hunters Spend Four Years Digging for Giants, Find Moa Bone

2/19/2020

60 Comments

 
With the launch of my new book, The Mound Builder Myth, yesterday, I have much to do and too little time to do it. I had rather little time for writing thanks to book launch work, but I wanted to give notice of the disturbing situation unfolding in New Zealand, where believers in a lost race of giants are coming under fire for the very real damage that their efforts to excavate what they believe to be giants’ bones may be doing.
According to RNZ, for the past four years, a group of people who believe that the original inhabitants of New Zealand were giants who lived before the Māori came to the country have been tunneling beneath a road, excavating a tube-like cave where they hope to uncover the bones of the giants. As RNZ reported:
The group has determined one is the leg bone of an 8 foot tall human and could be up to 2500 years old. "This here, my friends, is a human bone of a pre-Polynesian inhabitant," a male voice says in a video of the hollow bone posted online by the group. "You can tell by the triangular shape. It's most likely a tibia, which would make this… individual 8ft 4 inches tall… Regardless of its length, this is an older bone than any human being in New Zealand. What do our detractors say now, we wonder?"
 
Experts say the bone probably belongs to a moa.
 
The lack of evidence hasn't hampered the enthusiasm of the group's apparent leader, who does not reveal his name online but goes by the initials 'IJ'.
A representative of the local Māori iwi, or tribe, whose ancestors are buried near the dig site, called the dig “disturbing,” but the New Zealand government initially said it would do nothing to stop the dig on the grounds that they believed there was nothing ancient in the hole.
 
The RNZ article is well done and gives excellent coverage to archaeologists and Māori, with a rare instance where the racist underpinnings of the quest for giants are fully explored. It’s well worth reading in full.
 
But the denouement of the misadventure is also worth reporting. RNZ followed up a couple of days ago with the news that the giant hunters gave up and went home after their activities were exposed—and after the revelation that the landowner didn’t know they were digging and hadn’t given permission. They lamented that we “now never know for sure” whether a lost race of giants existed.
 
The follow-up article also quoted our friend and colleague Dr. M Dentith:
University of Waikato teaching fellow Dr M Dentith, who studies conspiracy theory, fake news, and secrecy, said theories about pre-Polynesian inhabitants of New Zealand were often used to make some variation of the claim, "'Well, if white people were here first, then the Treaty is null and void', or 'We did to Māori only what they did to our distant ancestors'".
What a strange coincidence: It’s exactly the same claims that we see here in the U.S. vis-à-vis Native Americans, and which—if I may shamelessly plug—I write about at length in The Mound Builder Myth.
60 Comments
Scott Hamilton
2/19/2020 09:59:49 am

I did some reading on this, and the weird part was that I couldn't quite figure out how the diggers made the jump to "the giants were white people." Just Biblical giantism I guess.

Reply
Jason Colavito link
2/19/2020 10:07:58 am

Probably. It's usually white giants due to the influence of American and European racism in the creation of the myth of the lost race of giants during the 19th century.

Reply
AMHC
2/19/2020 11:47:31 am

I have to wonder about the religious denomination of those involved and if their Protestant. I'm in Southeastern US. Here, it's quite common for the Church of Christ as an example. Just as all the drawbacks of Calvinism are purportedly the bane of Southern but not Northern Baptists, the Church of Christ have one slender piece of Doctrine that links them to the Universalist aspirations of the Mormons. In my Southeastern experience, this has led to a hyper focus on ethnicity and sexuality in an attempt to distance the Church of Christ not from mainstream Mormons but from the Mormon fringe that practice polygamy. Additionally, it serves to try and inject ideas about Henotheism into stories about Native American populations, predicated on Henotheism's BRIEF association with Judaism.

Religion
2/19/2020 11:55:08 am

Take my word for it, Judeo-Christianity and the Bible is based on a mind-expanding drug and what's more - those who wrote the pseudo-historical biography of Jesus in the Gospels knew all about it,

The Jesus Seminar
2/19/2020 12:02:39 pm

The Jesus Seminar failed miserably because it did not expand its horizons at all in relation to its so-called "analyses" into the origins of Christianity.

Goodie Petrovinsky
2/19/2020 12:39:37 pm

Why don’t you go to a Christian blog to spread your message? I think you’re pretty much preaching to the choir and no one here is going to become as militant as you are about it.

Joe Scales
2/19/2020 12:52:51 pm

"... the lost race of giants..."

Now that one I like...

Hale-Bopp Luvr
2/19/2020 02:19:54 pm

"Take my word for it, Judeo-Christianity and the Bible is based on a mind-expanding drug"

Well that's settled then. It's all so simple, all I have to do is take your word for it. Bye bye, messy lab work! Bye bye, tedious scholarship!

It is all so simple
2/19/2020 03:44:02 pm

You don't need to understand ancient languages to know the explanation for Judeo-Christianity. In fact, you don't even have to know how to read and write. All you need to do is to identify a particular psychoactive substance and how to prepare it. And then you will be able to recover the original version of Judeo-Christianity before it was subjected to centuries upon centuries of distortion by Roman Catholicism and later spread out into millions and millions of more directions following the Protestant Reformation.

IT IS ALL SO SIMPLE
2/19/2020 04:10:30 pm

How many generations have lived without ever knowing the explanation for Judeo-Christianity.

Mormonism and other marginal modern Christian religions are so far removed it's not just laughable - but criminal

Goodie Petrovinsky & Christian Blog
2/19/2020 04:13:09 pm

Um, this is a Christian Blog

Goodie petrovinsky
2/19/2020 04:31:45 pm

Yeah, I get the frustration. We live in a world in which being an atheist still makes one a pariah for most purposes and idiotic Christian dogma continues to infect society. I figured out long ago that Jesus didn’t even exist as a real person — whenever I share that discovery with people, they generally consider me a lunatic and they can’t begin to wrap their minds around the concept of no historical Jesus But I’m not posting anti-Christian screeds everyday on the Internet, so I guess that makes me an unwitting co-conspirator in the Christian fraud, if I’m following your logic correctly.

Kent
2/19/2020 05:01:28 pm

"All you need to do is to identify a particular psychoactive substance and how to prepare it. And then you will be able to recover the original version of Judeo-Christianity"

Did you see a "Jizz All Your Nonsense Here" sign outside? Spell out what you're talking about or begone. And I swear by Odin's hairy balls it better not be ergot.

Et In Arcadia Ergot
2/20/2020 02:51:09 am

Despite the symbolism of the Jerusalem Temple being built on a threshing floor and the significance of unleavened bread, it is not ergot. "I am not the Bread of Life".

Such an absurdity
2/20/2020 03:07:52 am

If Christianity was some sort of obscure Filippino religion it would surely never receive rave reviews. It all shows how pliable and impressionable the homo sapiens species can be. This is an object lesson into copycat stupidity syndrome. And it is also an extreme example of xenophobic ethnocentrism because of all those missionaries who are totally unable to keep their religious beliefs to themselves.

Goodie petrovinsky - no slam dunk
2/20/2020 03:23:05 am

Goodie Petrovinsky - you are without the slam dunk element required that proves what Jesus Christ is in order to prove that he did not exist as a person with a head, torso, arms and legs. Just like all those humanists and atheists like Earl Doherty, Robert M. Price, David Fitzgerald, Richard Carrier, and others. G. A. Wells provided a good service in utilising the material of the 19th century German Protestants - but his argument for Christian origins was useless, and he eventually, in old age, settled for the theory that Jesus Christ was originally a crucified non-entity elevated to mythic status.

Kent
2/20/2020 03:11:57 pm

Did you see a "Jizz All Your Nonsense Here" sign outside? Spell out what you're talking about or begone.

Kenty Babe
2/21/2020 03:35:31 am

The resurrection being cognate to the atonement being cognate to the liberation from Roman Occupation actually meant something and it had a purpose.

When Christianity took off and lost its original mould and meaning the resurrection became devoid of any meaning and just represented a pretty story. How pretty, Jesus died for our sins so we could live, detached from original mould and meaning.


Matt
2/21/2020 07:32:28 am

Original mould... so it is ergot.

Matt is wrong
2/21/2020 09:18:51 am

Who said ergot? Source?

Err. Fly Agaric
2/21/2020 09:57:39 am

Allegro's fly agaric theory is still followed by people. Carl A. P, Ruck of Boston University repeats it in his books. The most recent followers of Allegro's (mistaken) theory are Jerry and Julie Brown, The Psychedelic Gospels (Inner Traditions, 2016). Jerry Brown was professor of anthropology 1972-2014 at Florida International University in Miami.

Max Kellerman
2/22/2020 02:55:18 am

They didn't jump to "white" giants down in Patagonia. No white giants in Canada either. Come on Jason, turn MSNBC off for 5 minutes.

Kent
2/19/2020 10:43:24 am

Keep in mind that the United States is chockablock with Indians in the 7'4" range.

"It's most likely a tibia" It either is or is not a tibia. Since the speaker doesn't know my guess is it is not. It's an animal bone since it's hollow.

Reply
Quincy
2/19/2020 12:55:07 pm

After hundreds or thousands of years a lot of bones are hollow, either because they were hollow animal bones to begin with or because the marrow and softer interior bone structure of a human tibia has decomposed or has been eaten by insects. But thanks for contributing, Dr. Brennan.

Kent
2/19/2020 01:58:12 pm

First, the structure of solid bone is different from the structure of hollow bone, so FU. If you have an issue with the person describing the bone as hollow, take it up with them, but be ready to circle back to FU.

Second, https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2006/08/fossil-bone-marrow-found , so FU.

Third, https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/scientists-discover-earliest-known-evidence-bone-marrow/ , so FU.

Fourth, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249521127_High-fidelity_organic_preservation_of_bone_marrow_in_ca_10_Ma_amphibians , so FU.

Fifth, https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9679-bone-marrow-still-juicy-after-10-million-years/ , so FU.

Quincy
2/19/2020 02:15:34 pm

None of that changes the fact that many bones are hollow after hundreds or thousands of years after the marrow has decomposed or has been consumed by insects. Also, while you were googling up all that info on bones you must have missed the ones that describe the human tibia shaft as a "hollow tube." OOPS!

F me? No, no, no, no, no. FU, Temperance.

Someone who has been inside a catacomb
2/19/2020 02:51:29 pm

Well played Quincy. It won't shut him up. However, if he is busy frantically googling and cherrypicking from materials like irrelevant articles on examples of fossilized bone marrow to try to save face it leaves him less time for other forms of mischief here.

Les Moore
2/19/2020 03:08:58 pm

You’re right about that Catacomb, I think he was on the verge of his 10,000th rant about the Nation of Islam and Louis Farrakhan.

Kent
2/19/2020 04:47:48 pm

"Also, while you were googling up all that info on bones you must have missed the ones that describe the human tibia shaft as a 'hollow tube.' OOPS!"

If it weren't hollow it couldn't contain marrow. Like a (hollow) tube of Pillsbury dough containing Pillsbury dough. This is different and separate from the structural differences between solid (humans) and hollow bones (birds, dinosaurs).

"Be like watah, my friend."

So no, you're still riding the FU Train.

Quincy
2/19/2020 05:08:54 pm

And yet many bones are hollow after centuries or thousands of years because the marrow has decomposed or been consumed by insects and yet the human tibia is still described as a hollow tube. Your comments are either incorrect or irrelevant as it relates to the article under discussion. If you didn't want to have to try to dig yourself out of a hole like this you should have phrased your original comments better or thought it through much better before posting. Sorry, better luck next time, Bones. Save your FU's for the mirror.


I haven't been inside a catacomb but I get your point. Unlike Kent I have a life and have no intention of wasting further time on the matter even if it does distract him from behaving like an ass elsewhere here. He seems to have plenty of time on his hands and will eventually show up there anyway. Let him babble about fossilized marrow or go off on other tangents if he wants.

Joe Kent's Yummy Mummy
2/19/2020 05:27:07 pm

If Joe Kent can figure this out then he would probably find it even more frustrating to grapple with the fact that that living human veins are filled with blood but mummy veins aren't or that living tree saplings are solid but dead trees are often hollow. He's already posting some pretty twisted stuff in this thread so nice try at keeping him distracted but no dice.

Chief Petty Officer Obvious
2/19/2020 05:56:12 pm

I'm assuming that you meant can't instead of can. Your second mistake is in assuming that Joe and Kent are the same person. They aren't. It just seems that way because both share the same habits of saying things that are factually incorrect or they do such a poor job of articulating their thoughts that even if they do occasionally have a valid point it is lost on everyone but themselves.

Kent
2/19/2020 07:08:44 pm

You're still missing the point that "hollow bones" and "solid bones" are structurally different, but that's okay. The world needs ditch diggers too.

Senior Airman Obvious
2/19/2020 07:45:28 pm

Joe Kent could have benefited from some time as a ditch digger. Maybe then he would have come across some human long bones that were hollow after 500 years no matter what they were structurally when the person was walking about. Then this whole conversation would not be whizzing a mile over his head. He may be as obtuse as any two dumb people but I will go with the position that we are dealing with just one person.

Hollow (adjective): Having a hole or empty space inside.


Hollow (verb): Form by making a hole.

Maybe a warm glass of milk and a good 8 hours sleep will have you thinking more clearly in the morning.

Joe Scales
2/20/2020 09:48:44 am

"... that even if they do occasionally have a valid point it is lost on everyone but themselves."

Then how would you know?

influence of American and European racism
2/19/2020 10:41:54 am

There we go again

Reply
Aaa
2/19/2020 10:48:13 am

Somebody is seriously obsessed about racism. Black men run faster.

Reply
Who is Obsessed Here
2/19/2020 11:06:05 am

"Black men run faster."

Then why do so many of them get run down by dumpy white guys on every episode of COPS?

Reply
uillceal
3/6/2020 09:38:39 pm

cause their pants are half off their asses

Jacques LeGrec
2/19/2020 11:39:34 am

"The black is a better athlete to begin with, because he's been bred to be that way. Because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back. And they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs. And he's bred to be the better athlete because this goes back all the way to the Civil War, when, during the slave trading, the big, the owner, the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have uh big black kid, see. That's where it all started!"

“Hitler didn’t snub me; it was our President who snubbed me. The President didn’t even send a telegram.”

- Jesse Owens

Reply
Rastus
2/19/2020 12:05:26 pm

Jesse Owens was about the same size and build of famous white amateur athletes of the era like Red Grange and Nile Kinnick. Would look scrawny standing next to Jim Thorpe. Don't think that the big black buck breeding program applies in Jesse's instance.

RACISM
2/19/2020 11:23:47 am

Quick - hand over America back to the Red Indians
LOL

Reply
Chief Rolling Rock
2/19/2020 11:35:44 am

Can't do it in my state because we killed them all. The best we could do is sign the whole place over to Elizabeth Warren.

Reply
The Skeptic vs Alternative Researcher
2/19/2020 01:02:34 pm

The skeptic is fundamentally a type of man with a "religious psyche" who seeks certainty and affirmation of his current worldview. A mental model, once accepted, becomes a substitute for the messy reality that actually exists in the world. But because the real world is always more complex, interesting, and surprising than the mental models adopted by the skeptic, he or she is constantly bombarded by evidence that contradicts his worldview.

A skeptic is just a man who has a strong predisposition to intense religious faith who has lost that faith and is seeking some other form of certainty in their life, some other substitute mental model that serves as an anchor to comfort them. It is not a psychological disorder, per se, but a coping mechanism. But this psychological disposition is very, very unhelpful when it comes to processing new information, and to actually understanding the complicated and messy world we live in.

This isn't to say that the alternative researcher isn't motivated by his own psychological predispositions. The alternative researcher tends to observe and place greater weight on evidence that contradicts a given worldview, and often to an extent that isn't warranted. But because the world is such a complicated place with so many discoveries yet to be made, this kind of worldview inevitably ends up being correct more often than one might expect.

In my view, the alternative researcher and the skeptic are just two personality types that are destined to conflict with each other for reasons that have little to do with reality but much to do with their psychological makeup. The skeptic refuses to believe in giants because of the brain that he was born with, and the alternative researcher believes for the same reason - that's how his mind works.

Reply
Shell-Schoched
2/19/2020 01:15:55 pm

The skeptic refuses to believe in giants because there is no substantive evidence for the existence of giants. The alternative researcher either believes in giants because they lack the training and analytical skills to properly collect and evaluate the so-called evidence of giants or they pretend to believe in giants to sell a lot of books. Or, they are just batshit crazy. So, maybe something to the whole "brain he was born with" thing when it comes to why someone does or doesn't buy into crazy stuff.

Reply
Kent
2/19/2020 02:13:03 pm

The skeptic entertains three impossible ideas before breakfast but he doesn't impregnate and marry any of them, he just entertains them.

"Alternative researcher"? That's great code for "idiot". It's like calling someone who can only speak Ebonics or Spanglish "differently Englished." Similarly, a lot of people who call themselves "avocational archaeologists" are just idiots. Looking at you, ancient-origins.net and of course F Scott Wolter. No, I really mean that: F Scott Wolter.

If there's anything Mormonism, the Nation of Islam, Christianity and Judaism have taught us it's that massive edifices can be built on foundations of nonsense, sometimes with horrifying consequences.

Reply
M.M. O'Hair
2/19/2020 02:44:01 pm

Drop "the Nation of" and you will on the right track.

Kent
2/19/2020 04:55:20 pm

Sorry, you're not going to bate me into deniggrating the Religion of Piece of Little Boy Ass or the Prophet Muhammad, Peanut Butter be upon Him.

I am quite satisfied with Minister Farrakhan's flying saucers and the amazing disappearing Wallace Fard Muhammad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Fard_Muhammad

Chemical Ali
2/19/2020 06:13:25 pm

In other words you should have dropped "the Nation of" from your first set of comments.

Kent
2/19/2020 07:16:28 pm

Sorry, I don't share your hatred of Muslims. Saudi Arabia didn't murder Malcolm X. But you keep doing you, I don't judge.

Lawrence of Arabia
2/19/2020 07:58:49 pm

Translation: "I should have dropped 'the Nation of' from my comment and then I wouldn't have to spend all this time writing increasingly dumb, wrong, and irrelevant things to cover my ass for getting pissed at someone for pointing out that given the context of my statement it would have made more sense to drop 'the Nation of' from my otherwise broad comments about various major religions."

Let me know if I can help with anything else.

The above
2/19/2020 03:39:38 pm

The sceptic puts things to the critical test.
The alternative researcher is a believer in bullshit and calls sceptics naysayers.

Reply
uillceal
3/6/2020 09:44:30 pm

to be concise: yep

Doc Rock
2/19/2020 03:32:02 pm

I vaguely remember reading some of the Graham Hancock fanboys claiming that there is no evidence of ancient peoples inhabiting New Zealand because the Maori showed up and ate all them or something to that effect. I guess that they ate all the artifacts, features, and floral and faunal materials as well. I can't recall if they were working the giant angle or not.

Reply
M Dentith link
2/19/2020 10:17:42 pm

This was a very interesting story, and I’ve had some discussion with the reporter about it (we first corresponded about the story almost six months ago, and then she went digging). I found out about the dig over two years ago, but had no luck getting any of the various authorities to do anything about it (I contacted the local iwi, the district council, and our heritage trust), which is probably because no one—outside the tunnelers—think there is anything to be found. In the end the reason why the dig was called off is the land owner—a local farmer—being both annoyed people were tunnelling into their land, and because the diggers intimated—as indicated in the first article—that the land owner agreed with their project. So much for a governmental cover-up of Aotearoa New Zealand’s true history; the real threat to “academic” inquiry turns out to be the farmers! :)

Reply
Wink Martindale
2/19/2020 11:19:43 pm

For those playing Joe/Kent/AmericanNegro Word Bingo the judges have ruled that those with any of the following squares on their playing boards can mark them with an X:

Semen/Sperm

Testicles

Pedophilia/Pedophile

Unfortunately Joe/Kent/AmericanNegro did not spell out FU as usual so those with "Screw" or any variation of it are out of luck. Better luck tomorrow.

Reply
Jack barry
2/20/2020 12:42:01 am

I had “gay Soviet spy sleeping with FDR in the Lincoln Bedroom.”

Reply
Timmy
2/20/2020 02:29:42 pm

I never cease to amazed at how quickly the comments on this blog degenerate into nonsensical trolling. Keep it up kids.

Reply
Jr. Time Lord
2/21/2020 04:06:02 am

Giants were simply star groupings. They were replaced by the zodiac. The grouping we call Orion is the only giant remaining.

Reply
Because truth matters
12/3/2023 11:39:32 pm

The undertones of this article are not based in fact, but repeated straw man arguments that don’t jive with honestly sourced documents. Although many of the arguments outlined above may be true it’s important to not mix truth with straw man fiction.
It’s a fact when studying source documents that early Latter Day Saints, including Apostle Parley P. Pratt believed the Jaredites were descendants of Ham, based on the group's origins near the Tower of Babel, and initial migration into the Valley of Nimrod, an area associated with the descendants of Ham. In modern days Wayne May of ancient American publications claims the Ham connection (Blacks) are affiliated with the Jaredites (Giants) culture. The mixing of the two stories (Nephites / Jaredites) is a mixing of stories of two culturally distinct groups and was not of the mind of Latter Day Saints to push the manifest destiny doctrine being perpetuated in those days (1830’s). You might want to check source documents and methods on not the here-say of the tabloid blogosphere. If you can post sources and methods to refute this factual claim I’d love to evaluate for consideration.

Reply

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