Newspaper: America Unearthed Producers Lied to Scott Wolter about Spear Point to Create Drama3/7/2014 Here we go again. The latest edition of the Maui Time newspaper has a cover story on the allegedly Mesoamerican obsidian spear point found in a national park on the island of Maui. The new details provided by the newspaper are meant to make us more confident in the connection between the spear point and Mexico, but instead the reporting raises still more doubts about the authenticity of the artifact—and from an unexpected source, the archaeologist America Unearthed featured in its episode on the spear point. The newspaper also offered us the largest photograph yet published of the spearhead, which appears more than ever like a modern fake, sharing few if any characteristics with genuine pre-Columbian Mexican lithics. Archaeologist Dr. Janet Six of the University of Hawaii’s Maui College examined the green-gold obsidian spear point in the winter of 2010-2011 after Brian Axtell and Trevor Carter, its discoverers, contacted an archaeologist who in turn contacted her, and she immediately recognized that the spear point was not native to the Hawaiian Islands. “Someone put it there,” she told Maui Time. The obsidian from which it was made is from Pachuca in Mexico. Six offered several possible explanations, one of which we must dismiss because it is unsupported by archaeology. That possibility is her suggestion that Native Hawaiians picked up the spear point when visiting South America just before the time of Columbus. Mexican obsidian from Pachuca was the subject of long-distance trade, but to my knowledge this was limited to Mexico and did not extend south to the areas of the Inca Empire where the Polynesians landed. South Americans had their own sources of obsidian and did not need Mexican obsidian. “Academics agree that Polynesians went to Mesoamerica,” Six told the Maui Time, but this is untrue. Academics agree Polynesians reached South America, not Mesoamerica, and the two are not interchangeable. There is no evidence of Polynesian contact in Mesoamerica. Her other suggestions are much more likely: She said it was possible Axtell and Carter put it there, but added that given her discussions with them, and the fact that they never seem to have tried to get publicity from the spearpoint or sell it, she believed they were being honest about how they found it. She also said it was possible that a hippie put it into the park in the 1980s during a “harmonic convergence.” The last idea was a new one on me. I knew that there had been a Harmonic Convergence, but I wasn’t aware that the global gatherings extended to Hawaii. This explains everything.
In researching records and reports from the August 1987 “Harmonic Convergence,” I discovered that thousands of New Age people, including those who had visited “spiritual” sites in Mexico, traveled to the Haleakala Crater in Maui—where the spear point was later found—for Harmonic Convergence ceremonies. They held a “sunrise ceremony” at the crater on August 17. Russell Chandler reported this fact in Understanding the New Age in 1993, and the New Yorker reported the same in 1988. According to the New Age beliefs of the time, pyramid centers in Egypt and Mexico were considered important sites for earth energy and UFO activity. Artifacts (including tourist trinkets made from power stones like obsidian), rocks, and other detritus from those areas were important talismans that many New Agers used to spread harmony to other earth energy centers, such as Haleakala Crater. In fact, the Harmonic Convergence was developed in part by Jose Argüelles, who used the run-up to the Convergence to promote the idea that the Maya calendar would expire in 2012. He specifically linked the Harmonic Convergence to Mesoamerica and encouraged his followers to see Mesoamerica and Mayan mysteries as the focal point for the New Age. I think this about solves the mystery. The newspaper then explains some of the additional conspiracy claims with details that help flesh out what happened. You can read this yourself, but here are the highlights:
The Park Service refuses to discuss the incident beyond a press release that indicates that they are testing the spear point and conducting a criminal investigation into Axtell and Carter for illegally removing an artifact from the Haleakala. America Unearthed planned to use an expensive test to determine the age of the spear point but were unable to do so because of the Park Service’s seizure of the spear point. The “seizure” of the spearhead occurred in a Starbucks during a meeting arranged by producers of America Unearthed. The “conspiracy” against the show was entirely of the production team’s own making. Had they filmed and tested the spear point first, before arranging a meeting with the Park Service, there would have been no conspiracy. But it also might have made them party to the violation of federal law. Here’s the key detail—producers hid the seizure from Wolter on purpose for several days in order to create drama. “I didn’t like keeping it a secret from the guy,” Trevor Carter said. The men indicated that it took four takes to film the scene where they informed Wolter that the Park Service kept the spear point because the production team had to stop repeatedly to calm him down. He had become too angry to continue, cursing and shouting about conspiracies. Holy crap. The producers hide facts from Scott Wolter! They knew far ahead of time what had happened, and they lied to him about it!
195 Comments
Matt Mc
3/7/2014 03:29:40 am
Great job researching this Jason. I am glad to hear Wolter was kept in the dark about this. This reminds me of the FINDING BIGFOOT incident when the producers edited one of the first shows to show that the horse in a field was seen by the cast as a strange manlike object.
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6/3/2020 11:47:30 am
Hey guys...
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Coridan
3/7/2014 04:32:55 am
Wouldn't it only be illegal to remove it if it is an actual artifact?
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Dan
3/7/2014 05:01:34 am
Harmonic Convergence!
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/7/2014 05:46:22 am
Franz Kafka would be proud …
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Coridan
3/7/2014 05:52:04 am
Yes, scientists and academics taie in the whole of all evidence to reach a consensus. Sometimes there are dissenters. Sometimes the dissenters are proven right, other times there is better evidence found later. None of this is news Rev.
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3/7/2014 06:05:39 am
Dr. Six offered no opinion on the stone's age; instead, she offered three possibilities about how it came to the park. I reject one because Six has conflated Mesoamerica and South America. Some people make mistakes. Her suggestion about the Harmonic Convergence doesn't just match records about activity in the volcanic crater but also matches the 1987 event's Maya flavor. Given that the photograph shows what appears to be a modern obsidian imitation spear head rather than a characteristically Mesoamerican blade, this would seem to be the best explanation. It's also one of Six's own explanations. You don't get to pick and choose which parts of her analysis you get to accept if you intend to use her as evidence.
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RLewis
3/7/2014 06:57:43 am
The hippie convention also helps explain the part about the arrowhead giving off some cool vibrations, man.
J.A.D
3/7/2014 09:20:05 am
Just when i whuz about to lay odds in Vegas that it was Pre-Clovis
Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/9/2014 10:52:42 am
Indeed for sure …
Janet Six
7/11/2014 08:02:39 pm
Take a look at the Olmec heads...
Matt Mc
3/7/2014 06:13:37 am
I guess not comment about how the show used this event to create drama to the point of lying to its host.
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Colin Hunt
3/7/2014 06:36:43 am
Regarding your comment about Prof. Janet Six (Oh, sure … !!! What does SHE know about any of this stuff … ???). I think she knows a fair amount if you read her profile on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/janet6
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3/7/2014 06:40:35 am
Dr. Six is of course correct that the artifact originated in Mexico. The question is when, and 2 out of her 3 possibilities involve it showing up in the past 30 years.
Rev Gil Photsch
3/7/2014 09:14:03 am
Lighten up.....
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David Peter
3/9/2014 03:36:42 am
Rev, it is a television shop that tries to pass off bogus information as fact, shows like thing are a big part of the dumbing down of America. So that does not make these pseudo science, fact history shows harmless.
David Peter
3/9/2014 03:38:15 am
My first comment should read television show not television shop.
Janet Six
7/11/2014 08:01:22 pm
Take a look at the Olmec heads.
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Laakea
2/14/2018 09:01:56 am
You realize that polynesians landed on Easter Island almost 200 yes ago right?
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Colin Hunt
3/7/2014 06:07:54 am
I guess Wolter has not caught up with the Maui Time article yet. His blog still mentions “hiker's attempts to contact authorities,” (note the plural) and the “sting operation to get the obsidian point back.” As for his description of him and his colleague rushing and fighting over who would grab the mammoth tooth (Swamp Mammoth episode) I don’t consider that a professional method of recovering an ancient artefact!! His whole blog reads like a record of how Wolter enjoys having fun on his sponsor funded trips.
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J.A.D
3/7/2014 09:23:06 am
i'm going to cut him some slack. he has jet lag. he was in Europe
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RLewis
3/7/2014 06:29:57 am
FYI - I don't think the held the secret from SW for several weeks, just a few days - still seems kind of bush league.
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3/7/2014 06:32:07 am
I'm not sure how to read the timeline. It sounds like they said that the meeting took place at least a week before America Unearthed was supposed to start filming, so I guess it would have been at least one week. But if they had been working to arrange the meeting with the Park Service, they weren't telling him about that part either and those negotiations started several weeks earlier.
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Clint Knapp
3/7/2014 07:46:14 am
Now I suppose the question is; If you're Scott Wolter, do you do what you can to end the toxic relationship of lies, misinformation and yellow submarines? Do you forgive and forget because the gravy train is just revving up, or move on to some other corner of fringe tomfoolery to save some credibility?
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/7/2014 09:04:58 am
My point stands …
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J.A.D
3/7/2014 09:29:57 am
Even though it could have been knapped at any point over the past
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lil ole moi
3/7/2014 09:33:12 am
ODDS ARE THIS HAS A "BURNING MAN" FESTIVAL LINK!
Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/7/2014 09:49:21 am
I suppose that is how the "sweet potato" got to Hawaii, too ...
J.A.D
3/7/2014 02:56:35 pm
if the color of the stone was less greenish--- if it was specific and
Matt Mc
3/8/2014 02:52:31 am
Not 50/50 odds based on Dr. Six's possible conclusions but rather since 2 out of 3 of them say the spearhead is a fake. The odds based on the only scientist to exam the object would be more like 66% percent that it is a fake,
Colin Hunt
3/7/2014 11:01:55 pm
Rev. To quote you - Lighten up..... Its just a TV show.....
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Colin Hunt
3/8/2014 02:35:47 am
Rev. Sweet potato? Keep you mind open, unlike closed mind theorists. Read http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/place-lancashire/plain/A1984421. If you want to argue with the academics who wrote that article then take it up with them and not insert it as a diversionary tactic in Jasons blog.
Only Me
3/7/2014 10:22:28 am
Oh. My. God.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/7/2014 10:34:31 am
(Reportedly) Prof. Dr. Janet Six -- a trained experienced Hawaiian archaeologist -- DID examine the (purported Mexican-Hawaiian) artifact and did NOT flatly denounce it as an obvious "fake" … Did she … ???
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3/7/2014 10:49:39 am
I sent a note to Dr. Six to ask if she'd be willing to share her observations and evaluation criteria. I'll let you know when or if she chooses to respond.
Colin Hunt
3/7/2014 11:28:00 pm
Rev. So what’s your point? As a trained experienced Hawaiian archaeologist, as you said, Prof. Dr. Six responsibly suggested various scenarios to be considered and did not jump to a single conclusion, which some show hosts do without thoroughly considering various alternative theories and thoroughly examining them.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/8/2014 02:40:33 am
Colin Hunt --
Reid
3/7/2014 10:52:30 am
I apologise for coming late to the party, but would someone please explain how we know for certain that the obsidian is from Mexico? Thank you.
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3/7/2014 10:58:36 am
Green-gold obsidian is found in only one place, Pachuca in Mexico, and Dr. Janet Six did an analysis of the spear head matching its composition to the obsidian deposit in Pachuca.
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Reid
3/7/2014 11:01:10 am
Thanks!
CHV
3/7/2014 12:03:37 pm
If the producers of AU did, in fact, lie to Wolter, what does that say about his ability to screen out historical bullshit - which is frankly his stock in trade? He thrives on it.
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charlie
3/7/2014 12:05:07 pm
Oh dear. I am shocked. Shocked I tell you. The very idea that the production team chose to keep our hero Scott "in the dark" about the events to come is absolutely shocking to me.
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Mark E.
3/7/2014 01:37:23 pm
Carter and Axtell went off-trail in a protected wilderness area, removed an artifact from the park, cleaned the artifact with alcohol (making dating more difficult), had a confrontation with government officials, and then agree to mislead Wolter. I'm having a hard time finding much sympathy for their plight.
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Will
3/7/2014 03:51:08 pm
You headline is, in the first instance disingenuous, and in the second, somewhat ironic. It creates a sensational splashy blog post to write "Producers Lied to Scott Wolter about Spear Point to Create Drama", while at the same time re-interprting the facts to fit your bias against the show. Running with "producers lied"[!!!] you imply an untruth, and further a sinister deception - something you have at earlier times criticized the show for implying of others. In fact, withholding information is not deception - anymore than you're deceiving a friend by asking them to not unwrap a gift until you have a camera trained on them to capture the genuineness of their reaction.
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3/7/2014 10:51:22 pm
Seriously? After all the manipulations and sensationalism of America Unearthed (which you, as apparently the Will Yates who served as writer and producer for the show, are partly responsible for), you're going to criticize me for a click-worthy headline? Is this part of the America Unearthed agenda to make criticism so boring no one reads it?
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RLewis
3/8/2014 06:44:19 am
The title of SW's blog on this episode is "America Unearthed Notes on The Spearhead Conspiracy"
Mark E.
3/7/2014 11:39:49 pm
Looting of archeological artifacts from a National Park is a felony offense. Withholding information from a felony investigation is concidered obstruction of justice. There is the possibility that what was said in that interview is evidence that could be used in a court law. Wolter should have been made aware of that before the interview occurred.
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Matt Mc
3/8/2014 12:30:54 am
Will, you know what the Producers of Finding Bigfoot did when they were caught manipulating the shows hosts and re-editing a show in a manner that made the host look foolish. They publicly apologized, first in a press release and then later on the show itself in a special recap episode.
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Matt Mc
3/8/2014 01:33:48 am
Will here is the quote about Wolters reaction from the article
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El Snarko
3/8/2014 05:24:35 pm
I bet Rev Phil had to tell him to
Snarkenstein
3/8/2014 05:28:45 pm
Now, in addition to PHILibustering we have WILLibustering!
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Colin Hunt
3/7/2014 11:58:41 pm
Rev.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/8/2014 02:27:56 am
Colin Hunt --
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Colin Hunt
3/8/2014 02:55:16 am
Rev. You just don't get it. Your reply is expected an typical. My mistake about allegiance accepted, but you get the point. SC is working to replace the history of the USA and the repercussions of that are traumatic to the World. If his theories would ever (haha) be accepted then the USA has no legitimacy in the World and the concept of being a legitimate world power is immediately dissolved. It would lead to the destruction of the credibility of the USA.
Colin Hunt
3/8/2014 02:03:48 am
Wolters attack on the history of the USA. He is trying to prove that Europeans are, in some way, the owners of land and the USA.
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Matt Mc
3/8/2014 02:36:40 am
Colin, not sure where you are getting the oath of allegiance unless you are referring to the ones that immegrants take when becoming citizens of the US
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Colin Hunt
3/8/2014 03:04:58 am
Matt. Got it and apologized to the Rev for misunderstanding but principle as an American still applies. 3/8/2014 02:51:54 am
To Mr Hunt from Ms blunt.
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Colin Hunt
3/8/2014 03:13:50 am
I so respect your obviously intellectual comments, but what is foolish about quoting another's factual blog and comments. . 3/8/2014 03:17:26 am
"I know this comment will never be published, your site has a huge reputation about only seeking positive and complimentary replies..." 3/8/2014 03:33:38 am
I have a long history of going after Scott Wolter.It is a matter of public record.Mr wolter & myself initially exchanged words on this blog on 01/21/2013.Scott Wolter knows exactly where I stand, but to his credit,he never prevented me from challenging him on his own blog (other critics have also expressed their opinions on Wolter`s blog).
Harry
3/9/2014 01:29:40 am
I have also posted a number of comments to Wolter's blog questioning various claims he made. He does not publish them until after he has had a chance to review them, which might take up to a week. However, to his great credit, he has published virtually everyone (the single exception was a post that he was entitled to believe I had, while waiting for it to appear, superseded with another post making the same and additional points (and which he did publish); I cannot find fault with that.
Colin Hunt
3/8/2014 03:52:32 am
Tara, Where was my dishonesty? It's his blog I quoted from and do not want to interfere with your issues with him. He may accept your challenges, maybe on a personal level, well done to get through the 'wall' but he blocks all challenges on his blog other than sycophantic phrase.
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Colin Hunt
3/8/2014 04:11:13 am
Jason. Work this out! I sent a response to Wolters blog site, which I know would not be published, but was immediately intercepted and within a minute replied to me by Tara Jordan quoting my message to Wolter. VERY STRANGE! How did she get access to an unpublished message before it was published/deleted. How does Tara, immediately, get access to Wolters inbox before he declares he will only publish accepted responses? Something stinks here!
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3/8/2014 04:27:13 am
Paranoia.I responded (Ms Emma PeelMarch 8, 2014 at 7:16 AM) to your message (Colin HuntMarch 8, 2014 at 6:26 AM),because I am in a different time zone.
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3/8/2014 04:35:25 am
As a matter of fact I responded an hour later (March 8, 2014 at 7:16 AM) after your initial post on March 8, 2014 at 6:26 AM.Any other asinine comment you wish to make?
Colin Hunt
3/8/2014 04:41:52 am
Jason! Note. 3/8/2014 04:45:40 am
Colin, your comment was published on Scott Wolter's blog at 6:24 AM, and Tara responded to it at 7:16 AM after Scott Wolter had already responded to you as well. He told you he publishes all comments, and that he condemned "other sites" (i.e. me) for refusing to accept his conclusions out of dogmatic belief. The time stamps make that clear. Therefore, I have to conclude you're wrong. 3/8/2014 04:12:44 am
Jason, your recently implemented NEW RULES aren't holding, and the remarks are becoming abusive.
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Only Me
3/8/2014 04:37:59 am
I'd like to go another round of discussion about Old Troublemaker-related hypotheses...BUT...the last time, I unintentionally sparked another verbal brouhaha between you and Jason (for which I apologized), and I promised him I'd behave myself. Also, the subject isn't relevant to the thread, violating his comments policy.
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Gunn
3/8/2014 04:45:11 am
What a poor excuse for not being able to do what's right here. We don't need a bunch of excuses, just one simple acknowledge. Don't obfuscate and throw up fluff, after being one of my most outspoken critics. How about you? Do you purposely not see a water-way, too? Forget the lame excuses. You're on the public podium.... 3/8/2014 04:46:32 am
As Only Me pointed out, this discussion is off topic. Please take it to the Forum to continue.
Gunn
3/8/2014 04:52:16 am
Pitiful. Only me, pitiful for providing the lame excuse. Everybody, see when Jason finally jumped in. He is no longer believable.
Gunn
3/8/2014 04:53:56 am
Well, I gave you every opportunity, and you could not take it. So, we see you are an EVADER of truth. 3/8/2014 04:55:35 am
Gunn, what is your problem? You again are trying to hijack a discussion for your pet idea. It isn't the topic of this blog post and isn't relevant here. Please refrain from personal insults.
Gunn
3/8/2014 05:00:33 am
No, it's your problem. Everybody else was discussing "that forbidden subject" without any interruption from you. You could have said anything way back, but you chose to remain silent. Now you take Only Me's lame excuse in saying it's off-subject. You are biased, Jason. I caught you at it. 3/8/2014 05:05:36 am
Do you realize, Gunn, that I don't and can't spend every waking minute reading these comments? I check in a couple of times a day. You are the one who introduced stone holes again.
Gunn
3/8/2014 05:07:00 am
Are you suddenly unable to answer a simple question? 3/8/2014 05:11:17 am
You're asking about the waterways as they existed in the 1300s, not today and I don't have historical maps to answer that.
Gunn
3/8/2014 05:12:43 am
Nothing has changed. You can use current maps.
Gunn
3/8/2014 05:14:45 am
3/8/2014 05:20:03 am
Isn't there a portage between the St. Croix and Brule rivers?
I'm glad to see you're open to the challenge. It seems there is a two-mile portage...which wouldn't be a problem...never was to Vikings, either, obviously. (Just a light jab.)
Gunn
3/8/2014 05:35:11 am
Re-reading it, the portage may have been needed on a different, less direct route, so there may not have been a portage, depending on how you read it. But, a portage is no problem with small faerings (after-boats), or birch-bark canoes, whichever the case.
Only Me
3/8/2014 05:41:30 am
Thank you, Gunn, for illustrating my point so well.
I won't pester you any more, but I just wanted you to see that these people who had a reputation for exploring and navigating inland water-ways in Europe had no problems getting around here either. I'm merely saying that they didn't have any problem getting to Runestone Hill via water-ways, which was their customary mode of travel back then. I even presented a photo-route of Chippewa River (MN, not WI), so one can see the flow of water directly across a few miles from Runestone Hill.
Gunn
3/8/2014 05:57:00 am
The above comment was for Jason, not this persistent trouble-maker, Only Me. Only Me, in my opinion, you have been the most abusive blogger to others here, myself included. You have a filthy mouth and a very bad spirit, in my opinion. You brought up the notion of being off-subject, which was the most current butt-in, attempting to create trouble. Instead, Jason has looked at a map, something you weren't willing to do. You seem like an evil person. Plus, why don't you mind your own business once in a while, instead of just striving to stir up trouble? Having fun, are you?
Only Me
3/8/2014 06:25:19 am
I've already seen your map. I've entertained your idea in past conversation. I've never dismissed it as mere fantasy. I only asked you to be cautious with the use of New Gotaland, as others have taken you to task over your views about the KRS and stoneholes.
Gunn
3/8/2014 06:33:45 am
Yeah, Only Me, you responded alright, with that purposely trouble-making suggestion about being off-subject, as a workable cue. You added that in, didn't you? We aren't all fools here. Bottom line is that you like to attack people and cause trouble, as in the severe case with Rev. Phil. How does one deal with a purposeful trouble-maker on a blog? Why isn't it that you don't finally stop harassing people here?
RLewis
3/8/2014 06:52:36 am
I really don't want to get involved with this issue - but I always wondered - if the boats are just canoes or other light vessels (i.e. not large ocean-going ships) - then why the need to mooring stones?
Gunn
3/8/2014 02:16:09 pm
Actually, this might be hopeless here.
Clint Knapp
3/9/2014 01:31:31 am
I knew it would't be long before Gunn's latest absence wore off and we were right back to this crap again.
Colin Hunt
3/8/2014 04:52:51 am
Tara,
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Gunn
3/8/2014 04:54:59 am
Why would Tara suddenly be Scott's friend? What's wrong with you?
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Gunn
3/8/2014 04:57:24 am
Everybody is acting weird here on the blog today. I'm out of here.... 3/8/2014 04:58:28 am
Colin, your posts are off topic, apparently factually inaccurate, and in violation of my comments policy. Please refrain from further postings about this issue, or I will delete them.
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Colin Hunt
3/8/2014 05:17:28 am
Jason, so respect your decision. Never saw my post on SW blog, still not there, and never got any response you believe I got. Still confused at immediate (1 minute) reply by TJ to unpublished response. SW could never authorize it so fast but TJ intercepted it within a minute. Very Odd. .Good luck. Bye. 3/8/2014 05:18:35 am
Colin, did you try refreshing your browser? Your comment is on SW's blog, where I and everyone else here read it. It's been their since early this morning.
Colin Hunt
3/8/2014 05:43:52 am
Comments off topic, factually inaccurate! Matter of interpretation. Wow! Do you actually read the posts, I am very, very moderate in my comments and challenge no less than others.. No matter, let the abusive people rule the site. I opt out. Reader? Not now. 3/8/2014 05:48:44 am
Colin, you accused Tara of being a mole for Scott Wolter and/or engaging in computer espionage. The time stamps on the comments, publicly available on Scott Wolter's blog, show this wasn't the case. 3/8/2014 08:25:04 am
Suffering from reading deficiency?.
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CFC
3/8/2014 04:59:07 am
This was posted by a lady (Ms. Morgan) on the HC AU face book fan page:
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J.A.D
3/8/2014 06:07:50 am
two thoughts about all things other than post-holes
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Gunn
3/8/2014 06:45:02 am
Precisely, J.A.D. I made several Google searches and came up empty-handed on a similarly shaped spear point. I tried different search terms and looked at many, many images, but couldn't seem to come up with anything just like it. I found some small bird points from Oregon with a like SHAPE, of obsidian, but nothing as massive as that spear point.
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Dan
3/8/2014 11:17:13 am
This took me 10 seconds on google:
Only Me
3/8/2014 12:01:12 pm
Awesome images, Dan. Maybe they're more popular than we thought. It would be nice to compare some of these to the one found in Haleakala.
Gunn Sinclair
3/8/2014 02:07:58 pm
Dan, none of these images is anywhere close to the spear point in question. Rev. Phil and J.A.D and myself are correct in wanting to appraise the shape. I cannot so far find a spear point that looks like the one in question. Dan, study the one in question, then go back and see that you have found NOTHING...in how many seconds. It shows. And Only Me, awesome nonsense is more like it. No wonder people like Rev. Phil get exasperated here. Some people here don't want to be serious, except to seriously stir up trouble and nonsense.
Dan
3/8/2014 03:33:30 pm
"none of these images is anywhere close to the spear point in question."
Mandalore
3/8/2014 10:16:33 am
People sure do get themselves worked up about things on here. While it provides some entertaining reading at times, it rarely seems productive.
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Prone
3/8/2014 01:35:48 pm
When I read this blog post and saw how many comments there were, I thought "oh boy, I bet there is some serious and probably heated debate going on here about the authenticity of that spearhead, and the ethical issues surrounding how production handles their on-air talent"
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Gunn
3/8/2014 02:33:35 pm
Such a funny person! Prone, I looked real hard to see if you added anything to the conversation, but sadly, you didn't. Only criticisms against the usual suspects. It's too easy to pile on here, which apparently you are "prone" to do. One thing you got right though, was about people dodging questions...but you got the would-be dodgers confused. I think, probably, you could have just minded your own business here, too, especially since you didn't add anything but insults.
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Prone
3/9/2014 08:36:25 am
I'm glad you enjoyed my joke, I feel like adding humor to the conversation (since it wasn't particularly mean spirited or insulting, just a good-natured jab at the Reverend's catchphrases) and maybe trying to lighten the mood a little wasn't a terrible thing to do, since things were and continue to be pretty combative.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/8/2014 02:29:27 pm
LOL …
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Gunn
3/8/2014 02:49:16 pm
Rev. Phil, we are dealing with people who, despite being close-minded, think they know all the answers.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/8/2014 02:56:37 pm
Gunn --
Gunn
3/8/2014 03:27:58 pm
Right, speculation is BADLY needed, to fly into the face of over-zealous skepticism and close-mindedness. Wolter's programs help leave room to think, instead of automatically being close-minded, but they don't want anyone to be able to think outside of their presupposed, very correct box. Remember, they already know EVERYTHING, so there is no room for anyone like us to speculate about even slight possibilities. They think we are insulting them, I guess, for not being in lock-step.
Jonathan
3/8/2014 02:41:01 pm
I agree with Prone. I think it is time for a ruthless moderator to be the bad guy for Jason. Maybe the flame wars are good for internet traffic, but as a reader I am really sick of all the trolling, off-topic, and vitriolic posts. If Jason is not discussing your pet topic, then please start a discussion thread in his forum. For example, there is one blog post on stone holes, yet it is frequently brought up in blog comments for completely unrelated topics. There is not a single thread in the forum on stones holes. This is a problem, IMO. I can appreciate the fact that my own comments here are off topic. :)
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Gunn
3/8/2014 02:53:23 pm
You agree with Prone, and you can take my same answer to Prone. Who cares what YOU think? What did YOU add? It's easy to pile on and just plain not mind your own business. If you added something, that would be different, but you added NOTHING but a stinky fly-over. Next time try quacking without dropping an unnecessary, stinky load.
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Gunn
3/8/2014 03:19:15 pm
Jonathan, you have not seen a forum on stoneholes, correct. The proposition is too scarey. It's easier to simply dismiss them, as with any proposition involving far inland water-ways.
Mandalore
3/8/2014 03:30:27 pm
Gunn,
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Gunn
3/8/2014 03:36:53 pm
With all due respect, why isn't Jason answering a simple question? He had opinions before, which turned out to be incorrect? I'm looking for accountability and non-bias, from a Professional Debunker. We are at the knitty-gritty, Ma'am, and have been here for a while....
Gunn
3/8/2014 03:49:40 pm
Mandalore, I detect a stubbornness, an unwillingness from Jason and others here to admit what is clear to see, even after being corrected on his earlier views. But the answer opens a Pandora's Box of unorthodox history, which is scarey. I'm asking Jason to do his job here, for the benefit of anyone seeking the truth. The issue here is: evasion and a lack of accountability to common sense, as in, look at a map.
Mandalore
3/8/2014 03:52:57 pm
So lay out your evidence and interpretation in the forum for all to see and ask Jason's opinion of it. Then it will be on display in one place for all to see so that you need not keep having to repeat yourself. Arguing in the comments likely isn't inspiring Jason to respond, but putting him off. This would be a step in the right direction so that things don't get more out of hand on either side.
Gunn
3/8/2014 04:08:25 pm
Mandalore, I thought yours was a female moniker for some reason. Sorry.
Mandalore
3/8/2014 04:27:24 pm
I'm not sure if the title of Mandalore is masculine or gender neutral, or whether there has ever been a female Mandalore. But that is a discussion for a very different website. Okay. Mandalore, if you wake up in the morning in a mood for research, perhaps you wouldn't mind checking out the facts concerning this inland waterway to Runestone Hill. This isn't an esoteric matter. It's easy to see and comment on after seeing. For starters, click on the arrow by my name, above. Then look at the map. I'll be so happy when the FIRST person admits to seeing a water-route to Runestone Hill. Poor Runestone Hill here. Perhaps you can help Jason out of his apparent fogginess. Please report back. When the fog lifts, maybe we'll see some of those stonehole rocks you're talking about!
Mandalore
3/9/2014 04:41:26 am
I see the pictures of the stone holes. A water route to the site may be possible, but you need to better present your theories in a nice map and write-up of the precise route along its entirety from the Atlantic to Runestone Hill. At present I am not convinced because I don't have the time to devote to research on my own part as you suggest and it is not cohesively presented in a synthesized discussion that pulls everything together in a clear manner. I would be happy to read such a thing, but I don't have the time (or the motivation as as this is outside of my area of interest) to do that myself. I would also suggest careful erudition concerning more mainstream theories. If you think they are wrong, it is up to you to demonstrate such a thing in favor of your ideas. You have a potentially interesting theory, so now mold that into an exhaustive historical argument.
Gunn
3/9/2014 05:29:46 am
Well, I was hoping maybe you'd be the one to see the water-way. I've already laid everything out, to no avail. To Lake Superior is a given; beyond that, I have listed the rivers, in order, from Lake Superior.
Mandalore
3/9/2014 05:57:57 am
Your defensiveness is not warranted in our discussion. I have not rejected your theories, only that I am not as yet convinced by them. I do not appreciate your using language such as 'failure' or 'pitiful'. Nor have I ever defended any 1492 date as some holy end-all-be-all.
Mandalore
3/9/2014 06:57:25 am
I would also suggest doing some research into the nature of Viking exploration and settlement in Russia as a comparison.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/8/2014 03:47:01 pm
*Somebody* … please …
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Dan
3/8/2014 04:49:15 pm
This is the "spearhead" from the magazine photo alongside one random spearhead taken from an auction site on the web.
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Gunn
3/9/2014 05:35:03 am
Again, Dan, this doesn't match either. One is broken off and the other is completely unlike the Hawaii one. Why do you keep doing this?
Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/9/2014 06:00:55 am
Dan --
Jonathan
3/8/2014 03:48:33 pm
Jason is not under any obligation to reply here or to respond to any theories we try to advance in the comments section. Why is the comments section of an unrelated blog post a better place to discuss stone holes than the forum where a focused discussion of stone holes could take place?
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Gunn
3/8/2014 03:56:15 pm
Jonathan, Jason can answer a simple question. He can make the decision without your guidance. You, yourself, still haven't added anything except criticism here. Don't you get it...you haven't added anything? Why don't you just butt-out, like it's none of your business, which it isn't? Come back and comment on something meaningful some time. Anyone can pile on.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/8/2014 03:59:38 pm
Gunn -- 3/8/2014 04:19:42 pm
I guess, Rev. Phil. Anyway, I'm hitting the sack. It seems as though almost everyone here is wearing purposeful blinders when it comes down to actually seeking truth in history. The inland water-ways are real, the unblasted stoneholes are real, and the purposeful blindness here is real.
Jonathan
3/8/2014 04:31:05 pm
I don't understand how it is unreasonable to suggest that off-topic discussions take place in the forum section of Jason's site.
J.A.D
3/8/2014 04:34:15 pm
i brought this up because Solutrean and Clovis do look alike.
cal
3/8/2014 06:31:45 pm
Gunn, I have added nothing to your cause, but I am being put off to the notion of it with every post of yours I read.
Gunn
3/9/2014 05:37:58 am
cal, like the others, you might do well to mind your own business, especially since your opinion doesn't add up. Why haven't we heard from you before? Simple...because you can't add anything, you can only pile on.
cal
3/9/2014 08:42:25 am
I read every word on your website and it seems as if you have a problem with everyone. The people at the park commemorating your pet project don't even match up to your idea of what may or may not have happened.
Only Me
3/8/2014 04:33:20 pm
There's a wrestling term that applies to what's happening in this thread. It's called "cheap heat".
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Gunn
3/8/2014 04:41:25 pm
Funny, this heel-person sounds more like you. Good self-description, except you left out the title of "Trouble-maker."
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Only Me
3/8/2014 04:46:32 pm
Cheeeeaaap heeeeaaat.
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J.A.D
3/8/2014 04:46:29 pm
i looked at spearheads on this link that is like the one Dan provided, and the cover image. glaringly the base is different, and also the color, the 3 new ones are of a darker color. the lump of obsidian is
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$4.oo lets you by a clever knapping session "fake" an artifact...
3/8/2014 04:51:33 pm
my point precisely!!!!
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J.A.D
3/8/2014 05:03:09 pm
lumps or "chunks" of obsidian can be bartered or swapped.
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even worse... lets rethink 1431 theories
3/8/2014 05:14:29 pm
lumps or chunks of obsidian might hint at Chinese voyages to the Americas and a stop-over in Hawaii where bartering or swapping of
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Seeker
3/8/2014 05:42:18 pm
Jason, thanks much for the strong follow up piece with more information from Dr. Six, possible explanations for provenance of the spearhead--and the truly unethical actions of the production staff in withholding information from SW in order to get a reaction--talk about a conspiracy...
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Clint Knapp
3/9/2014 03:03:22 am
Withholding information may not be specifically lying, but it is definitely a breach of trust. I for one find it immensely telling of the whole show that the producers went ahead with the spearhead segment and continued to film it as though they had nothing at all to do with the situation just so they could get Wolter's "genuine reaction" on film.
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3/9/2014 05:34:32 am
Clint.
Matt Mc
3/9/2014 06:18:06 am
Well said Tara, I fully agree with you.
The Other J.
3/11/2014 07:17:58 pm
This does make me wonder if Wolter had any response if and when he found out the producers withheld the information in order to manipulate his emotions and manufacture a staged response without his tacit knowledge. If that were me, my trust in the producers would have dropped precipitously.
Mandalore
3/9/2014 04:25:24 am
This seems to fit the standard operating procedures among 'reality' shows. The producers of those shows create false situations and drama beyond the supposed reality of the show in order to make things more interesting to draw in an audience. The shows on SpikeTV in particular make these fake reality shows, and it kind of seems like the producers of AU are following those examples. I guess controversial ideas and manufactured drama sells; it is just a show after all.
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PNO TECH
3/9/2014 03:41:56 am
I have often wondered about the proccess of script writing for this show: does Mr Wolter have creative control over the final draft? This suggests not: http://mauifeed.com/headline/is-the-spearpoint-trevor-carter-and-bryan-axtell-found-in-haleakala-national-park-evidence-that-pre-contact-hawaiians-visited-south-america/
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Matt Mc
3/9/2014 06:19:31 am
Wolter has stated in the past and recently on his blog that for some subjects that he knows well he has some input but many times he goes in blindly.
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PNO TECH
3/9/2014 04:50:52 am
In the article above, Axtell says he cleaned the spear point with alcohol from his first aid kit. Anyone with actual experience care to explain how that might affect the scientific examination of it? He says that the cleaning will make dating difficult. I do not have the expertise to evaluate that claim.
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Seeker
3/9/2014 09:52:43 am
Great question. I'm definitely no chemist but I wonder if use of alcohol on the spear point was so detrimental because it removed important evidence, impacted radiocarbon dating because alcohol contains carbon or something else entirely.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/9/2014 06:17:16 am
So is there any new information from Prof. Dr. Six … ???
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Gunn
3/9/2014 08:41:15 am
Here's a link about age-testing obsidian. Apparently, it's tied in with radiocarbon dating and is relatively accurate. But, dog-gone-it, I still haven't been able to locate any huge spear points just like the one in Hawaii! The bases are always different. This must be a rare find!
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Clint Knapp
3/9/2014 11:48:40 am
Unfortunately, Gunn, you fail to see the point again. The issue isn't with the data or what it may or may not reveal, it's with the presentation, as I and others have been trying to drill into your head. If you want to be a rogue alternate-history buff with a grand vision of the world that's meant to rock our socks off and change everything you have to actually step up and do it with at least the same diligence as every other alternative and fringe "thinker" out there.
To sum up for you, Clint, my problem here is having to deal with evasiveness, both from Jason and from all the others who are pretending to be too dull to see the water-way, as I presented. Any fairly intelligent person can easily see the routes I showed. Saying the routes as depicted isn't good enough is a cop-out. Jason is ignoring the direct question, even though he voiced earlier opinion...also, about stoneholes. 3/10/2014 04:59:54 am
Gunn, I can't drop everything on your whim to go looking into stone holes. You have a website; use it to present a compelling case. Better yet: If you want to prove that the water route you identified is viable, get in a boat and sail from L'Anse-aux-Meadows to Runestone Hill. Looking at a map won't allow me to conclude it's possible; I have no way to know the facts on the ground, which branches of the river are deep enough for a Viking ship, or which stretches might be too dangerous or impassible. It's not as simple as looking at lines on a map.
Gunn
3/10/2014 05:47:34 am
Key words from the History Truth-master: "Viking Ships." 3/10/2014 06:04:22 am
After all that, you seize on the word "Viking"? Amend it to fourteenth century Norse ship, or any other kind you'd like. The point is the same: You need to actually do the work to prove your idea, not expect other people to do it for you as some kind of challenge.
cal
3/10/2014 06:42:22 am
Gunn,
Well, evidently you both missed the meaning and point about the key words being "Viking Ships."
cal
3/10/2014 04:12:44 pm
Gunn, If you look below I have contributed to the pertinent discussion on this particular comment thread. Also, if you read you see that I did indeed go to your website and see what your argument is based upon and if there were further references there for me to look up and possibly see things in the same light ad you do.
cal, it's nice to see that you finally contributed something, besides not being able to mind your own business, and being so extremely DULL about researching inland water-ways. You make it sound like only a genius can see the water-ways after much research. My map I presented is plain and simple for my purpose of showing river-ways to Runestone Hill and to the convergence point of New Gotaland. I can't help it if you can't muster up enough ability to look at something so simple and "get it." This is elementary school level stuff. You and Jason just refuse to see something elementary and simple. This is a reflection on you guys, not me. Jason voiced an erroneous earlier viewpoint about water-ways, so he should be able to clean this up after looking at simple maps. It is his responsibility to the truth, which I am after here. Duh. I want truth from the History Truth-master, not someone like cal jumping in, not minding his own business, throwing up more fluff to cover simple truth about water-ways.
cal
3/11/2014 04:26:53 am
Gunn, at risk of being banned from this blog...
Matt Mc
3/11/2014 04:29:50 am
Can we please stop the dead horse from running.
Gunn
3/11/2014 07:41:15 am
Okay, cal, I think you finally got my point, after I had to front you off for coming here to deliver nothing but bad vibes, at first. Maybe you'll re-consider your words in the future when you feel like butting into another person's gig. You should put your passion into exploring inland water-ways.
Seeker
3/9/2014 11:21:05 am
Thanks for the article, Gunn!
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/9/2014 11:53:58 am
Not all "hafted" chipped stone tools and weapons were for "throwing" or "thrusting" … Some were used as "knives," especially for processing food ...
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Seeker
3/9/2014 04:55:45 pm
Yes. I'd hoped I covered that / made that part of the consideration with my comment *A heavy obsidian blade makes sense for ceremonial purpose or as a handheld weapon or tool--but not so much for a thrown spear.* In other words, the mention of the word "tool."
Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/10/2014 05:28:27 pm
Yes …
cal
3/10/2014 06:57:33 pm
Rev.
Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/11/2014 03:21:29 am
Yes, the Aztec "sword" was an amazing clever formidable weapon …
Mark E.
3/9/2014 12:12:13 pm
Mayan large green gold sheen spearpoint: http://www.worldmuseumofman.org/display.php?item=1347
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Sabrina Urquhart
3/9/2014 05:09:27 pm
Wow--thank you. Beautiful piece. It was great to do a split screen and compare them side by side. The one in the museum seems thinner, more balanced and beautifully shaped. It isn't difficult to imagine it being attached to a spear. I wonder how heavy it is.
!!!!!!!!!
3/13/2014 05:05:26 am
Inventory #: 1347
cal
3/9/2014 11:27:25 am
Just found this as a counterpoint to the relative accuracy of hydration as a method of dating obsidian.http://web.ornl.gov/info/reporter/no7/clock.htm
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PNO TECH
3/10/2014 03:00:30 am
Thanks for the links, Seeker & Cal. If I understand correctly, glass(obsidian) has such a low porosity that a few minutes of exposure to alcohol *should* not affect the dating of the spearhead. Alcohol has a much lower surface tension than water which means that it will be absorbed more easily into porous material (I know a little about this from my day job). IF the spearhead IS 100s of years old, the water wick-depth(my terms), will be much deeper than a brief exposure to alcohol would yield. If only a few years old, the alcohol > could< possibly quickly wick to a fairly shallow depth. So, if old: should be fine: if new; may be a problem.
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cal
3/11/2014 07:54:53 am
Just want to apologize for my diarrhea of the keyboard to everyone on this blog. I was not my intention to drop to the level of certain other loose gunns.
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Sick of Stoneholes
3/11/2014 08:05:06 am
No need to apologize, but yes don't engage the troll.
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Gunn
3/11/2014 08:26:20 am
Which begs the question, why did you? Just practicing being a hypocrite? You must be a secret stonehole freak....
william smith
3/11/2014 01:18:40 pm
The arrow head found does not prove anything other than the stupidity of Scott Wolter thinking that property found on state or federal land belongs to the finder. Even items found on private property in most states does not belong to the finder unless the property owner has given written permission.
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Rev. Phil Gotsch
3/11/2014 03:27:07 pm
The Common Law includes "the Law of Treasure Trove," commonly known also as "finders, keepers; losers, weepers" …
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Matt Mc
3/12/2014 12:59:46 am
The Treasure Trove law is different in many state in the US, so one would have to look at a given state law.
william smith
3/12/2014 04:52:08 am
Thanks Phil and Matt for your input. The state to state laws are different, their are also laws that are Federal that apply to National Parks or Federal government property. The laws in Canada are also different because much of the private property is actually a 99 year lease. In all cases it is best to understand the law and have written permission on any land you look for artifacts or treasure. If the arrow head in this article was found in a park it may be subject to state and federal laws. Each year for the last 8 years I have worked for the township in my area in Ohio at an old ice factory site which was in operation 150 years ago. We do this one week dig for the public that wants to participate and offer merit badge work for the scouts that join the group. Each year we are required to provide a letter of intent as well as all participating parties. We also are required to sign a paper that indicates all finds are the property of the township and will be maintained by the local historical society. Their are also native American laws passed in the 1990s that protect burial sites that may be discovered. If you find a bone for example, the dig is halted until properly identified and recorded by qualified state personnel before continuing. The big problem I see with America Unearthed is they never encourage their viewers to go through the proper process of research. The metal detector group make it clear that their findings are in most cases property of the owner.
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Armothe
3/12/2014 06:21:43 am
Jason, thanks for taking the time to present the publication as well as follow up with Dr. Six. These are the type of stories I find the most helpful and even enjoyable.
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Marion Picanco
1/28/2020 01:04:25 am
I'm just laughing cause the two guys who supposedly "found" the spearhead look like they have been smoking a lot of meth...damn their teeth..wtf
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